Dear Apple, This Needs To Change...

[@wild.legend-music]

And when you buy two Mac mini machines, you are buying two M4 chips instead of one. *Mind blown*

[@MultiNakir]

imagine that xD maths

[@nasimahm3d]

isnt the argument that a mac with double storage and ram shouldnt cost double? maybe a 50-80% increase but not 100%

[@AnonymousPerspective33]

His argument is that buying 2 cars cost the same as buying 1 car with 2 engines and 2 transmissions inside of it. Basically you’re paying for the 2nd car body but without actually having it.

[@Timely-ud4rm]

No when you buy 2 mac minis you are buying a M8 chip 😁

[@NakeanWickliff]

@@AnonymousPerspective33 good analogy but remove the engine perhaps since that would represent the m4 chip itself. If you got two m4 chips (ultra) that might actually make sense but it's more like getting two cars vs getting one car with an extra transmission and extra wheels. Storage is cheap as hell and ram not that expensive either, especially at whatever rate they get it for.

[@ST-ry7lr]

Apple does this across almost all their product lines. They come out with a magnificently powerful product with a reasonably low base price. But they set the base configuration so low that most people are not comfortable buying that model (or will soon regret it). So you start adding on the additional things that are absolutely needed and suddenly the price doesn't look so good anymore. If you have any properly configured Mac with Apple Silicon (even M1), just be happy. Or instead buy a used M2 with more memory and storage and you're golden. The M3/M4/Pro/Max/Ultra!! are certainly more powerful, but they are also much more powerful than even most "power users" will ever need.

[@nasko235679]

As someone who needs 128GB of RAM for my workflow I was looking at the new Macbook Pros and the fact that the RAM upgrade from 48 to 128GB costs 1200EUR is absolutely positively insane. Thank god I don't need extra storage as well because if I did this laptop's cost would approach that of a pretty nice second-hand vehicle.

[@djacks247]

what do you need 128GB RAM for and is this based on Intel computers or Apple silicon? This sounds ridiculous.

[@Ryzen-4090-i3n]

@@djacks247 some people might even need 192 gb ram too you know

[@loumazzucchelli7984]

No, this isn't insane. Apple is charging based on yields of the higher-memory chips, which are probably lower. Integration brings great performance, but nothing is free. There are always tradeoffs.

[@pythoneerssADOFAI]

@@Ryzen-4090-i3n how tf are they remodeling the universe or smthg?

[@pythoneerssADOFAI]

@@Ryzen-4090-i3n tell me ONE senario where someone needs 192gb ram

[@lchanceiv]

I never upgrade the storage on the macs. I know some people may not want to do this, but it’s really not a hard thing to do but just buy an external NVM E Drive and boot from that and you can get 2 to 4 TB pretty much for what you’re paying for a 512 gig hard drive. I would love it when you get your new Mac mini or even your iMac to do a video on this and show people that you’re really not sacrificing performance if using an external drive as your booth drive.

[@carriegordon5830]

Yep, that’s what I do.

[@Red_Snappa]

@lchanceiv What's the advantage of booting off the ext drive...why not just boot off the internal and use the ext drive for all your storage - I'm sure there's a reason though 🤔

[@brndblm]

@@Red_Snappa now i'm intrigued too

[@alexthe2]

once u install XCode and over 100GB are gone...

[@timleahezra]

it's like buying a Porsche and then towing a trailer. Sure you can, but it is so not slick anymore. Same with no ports. If I was buying a desktop, I would do this, but I still hate it. It's why I kept my old Mac Pro going for as long as possible. You could throw in dirt cheap multi TB drives, with not a single USB to go bad, could back stuff up internally, actually keep a competed video project without having to turf it for space... etc.

[@leewilkin5582]

I hate to burst your bubble Greg, but Apple's dominant motivation for upgrading the base 8 Gb RAM configuration (across the board) is Apple Intelligence and not simmering consumer frustration- AI needs 16Gb to work well. Also, Apple have some of the brightest people working for them and they think very hard about upgrade pricing structures to maximise profitability.

[@DS-pk4eh]

I would add that price for memory chips ( 2x4Gb vs 2x8Gb) came so close that the difference was minimal and Apple was OK to sacrifice something like 1USD. How good they are.

[@melomaniakjm]

And stupid fanboys who think they're buying a great machine for 599$ when in fact it costs at least twice that base price for upgrades and they will pay for it, they just don't know it yet.

[@SPECTRA890]

Is it really a fan boy thing? ​ Spec for spec there is no computer on the market that can beat the value of an M4 pc Just an Intel Cpu is almost the price of the entire Mac mini for the same performance and better power draw and portability

[@ROGUEDITOR]

@@SPECTRA890 That's sadly true, but you have more upgradibility and freedom which is nice to have. Also a 14900k is better than a base m4, but that is sadly without a GPU

[@podunkis]

Apple makes money on services, too, and services are higher in margin, so they should not provide reasons for people *not* to choose their hardware. I know people who didn't buy Apple due to the inflated upgrade prices. Few people would dispute the high value of their entry-level models, but the upgrades can make you feel like a sucker. Perhaps they're trying to protect the market positioning/pricing of the Pro version. The comparison highlighted in this video is certainly not hidden on Apple's website, but I think it's good to continue shining the spotlight on this odd pricing strategy.

[@joekelley9311]

The 1 Terabyte drive came out in 2007, it is really time to do away with drives smaller than that. Apple should have 1tb standard and options to upgrade to 2,4,8 and keep their $200 price increase per jump.

[@CrustyTrayson]

so close my moronic friend! they should use those sizes with a 50 dollar increase for 2tb, 100 for 4, and 200 for 8 cuz its dirt cheap for them

[@casedistorted]

If they do away with those options then they can’t screw us anymore

[@geoffstrickler]

No. Most people never need more than 500GB. I have exactly one machine (a Windows PC) with more than 500GB, and less than 200GB of that is actually in use. In fact, if you’re not doing video work or AAA games (rare on Mac), you’re unlikely to need more than 250GB.

[@joekelley9311]

@@geoffstrickler with the new iPhones photos going from 12 -48 megapixel the pro-raw sizes are going up from 25 to 75 megabyte per picture. Apple should just work and if you have to even think about file management and you are not a professional videographer or photographer they are doing something wrong.

[@serqetry]

This is a ridiculous take. 512gb is overkill in most cases. I think 256gb is too small, but with Apple's upgrade prices it's not worth going up to 512gb when you can use an external drive. I wish there was such a thing as 384gb SSDs, that would be the perfect size for a base model. But 1TB is absurd, most people wouldn't be able to fill that if they tried.

[@logiclust]

Headline: "Kid Discovers Apple Tax" ... it has ALWAYS been this way. The only thing that's new is that we can't do the upgrades ourselves, making it a bit more like "extortion"

[@TheThaiLife]

One thing that’s interesting. Is the upgrades on the used markets are nearly free. So, on one side, when you spend all this money on getting a terabyte of storage or whatever, when you resell you pretty much get the base model level price plus just a few bucks. So if you’re to flip the logic, it really makes a lot more sense than ever to buy used.

[@alexthe2]

I'm sorry but that's just not true. Just reselling my Macbook Pro M2 with 256/16GB and that's about 100 more then a 256/8 and 150 less then a 512/16 on ebay

[@timleahezra]

On the used market, the upgrades seem to return to something approaching real market value

[@mvp_kryptonite]

Upgrades on the used market do hold their value more!

[@monkeystation]

But the upgrades also make it possible to use your Mac longer before buying a new one. Buying less Macs saves a lot of money too. I'm currently rocking a M1 Pro MBP 16GB / 1TB and have no reason to upgrade. When I do, the spec will still have some relevance and hopefully a decent resale value.

[@PappaMike-vc1qv]

As an AAPL stockholder since 1985, I totally agree. Apples product lineup is starting to look like it did when they were on the verge of going under under Scully.

[@carriegordon5830]

@@PappaMike-vc1qv YES! I was just saying this the other day!

[@RexVideos]

No to defend Apple bc I hate this pricing structure but it does kinda make sense from their perspective. I would guess they have the lowest margins on the base model MacBook Air and Mac Mini. But having such low cost models allows for 2 things: 1) They lower the barrier of entry into the Apple Ecosystem, and we all know, once you are in, you are in. 2) A low cost option allows you to sell more. Share holders love to see Apple selling more Macs. The problem is, these low cost, entry level models are basically subsidized by the over-priced upgrades. So everyone that wants an upgrade is making up for the low margin on the base models.

[@dima1353]

I would argue with the thesis "once you are in, you are in". When I bought M1 mba, it was truly unique for my purposes. There was nothing like it on Windows for that kind of money. And I'm not talking exclusively about ultrabooks, even if we consider something that weighs 2 kg. But Windows laptops have come a long way since then. Many have caught up with Apple in terms of input/output quality. Even in such a damned class as "budget gaming laptop" you can find now decent screens suitable for working with color. Touchpads aren't that bad, keyboards, energy efficiency. Even the speakers! Would you believe it? You can now find a Windows laptop with good sound and there are more of them every year ! The difference in performance doesn't matter to me because let's be honest - everything has gone too far in absolute terms these days. Even basic chips are supercomputers now. This isn't 2006, when Photoshop could melt the case. So I can see how I can jump off the Mac now. I love my Macbook, it's a great piece of equipment, but its advantages are not so unique anymore, and at the same time it still has unique limitations.

[@thecsciworker291]

I've had a 2018 mac mini (i5) since 2020 ... Im not in shit. Literally just use it for mobile development and call it a day. No plans to buy an iphone and as long as this shit works, no plans to upgrade. It was upgradable so I could change out the 8gb for 32GB crucial chip, cheap cheap, and not at Apple math price, and the HD came with 512GB. I dual boot Windows and often laugh at the fact that I bought a mac to use Windows.

[@serqetry]

You have good logic here, but I think just a tad lower prices on the upgrades would end up making them more profit than the way they have it now. At least on the first bump ups from base model. There's way too many people that are buying the base model because it just doesn't make sense to upgrade when you can add a cheap external drive. I ordered the base model M4 Mini, but if Apple had made going from 256gb to 512gb for $100, I wouldn't have hesitated and they would have made more money.

[@user-jr7bb6g9ev]

@@dima1353 Windows laptops still suck, they'll be a force to reckon with once ARM takes off, but that doesn't fix the major hardware quality control issues in everything but business enterprise. Nice to see everyone isn't glazing apple though

[@77dris]

As long as people keep buying the macs, the prices won't change, so I wouldn't hold my breath. One reason I'm holding out for the Mac Studio because if we can go by past pricing, an entry level Mac Studio often costs the same or less than an equivalent upgraded Mac Mini, and you get more ports, better cooling, and better GPU performance.

[@timleahezra]

They'll keep buying Macs, if they can make do with pathetic specs, but they might also buy upgrades if they were affordable.

[@georged822]

I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS EXACT THING YESTERDAY! 2 chassis, two m4s, twice the ports, twice the fans, same price when ordering two... wtf!! come on apple!!

[@eddiegardner8232]

You are spot on about the price of upgrades, which totally ignores the real-world price of the components. This leads to the feeling that the upgrades are a “ripoff” when they see the price of the higher storage volume chips is 20% of the price Apple charges for the upgrade; and at the volume pricing Apple buys these commodity parts, it is even more ridiculous. Your “two for the cost of one” example vividly shows the absurdity of the pricing model.

[@davidward1224]

Two considerations; A) this add-on pricing model has been in place for decades in many assembly line based products. Most notably the auto industry. B) I expect that the base model Mac is 90% automated assembly which has been optimized to keep manufacturing unit cost low. The corollary is that custom spec devices have to be pulled off the automated assembly line and then manually configured with the custom features. That increases assembly cost significantly. Even if the custom assembly is on a separate automated assembly line the cost of configuring the line for a specific custom configuration and then running some small number of units before reconfiguring the line also increases assembly unit cost dramatically. I also expect that Apple's pricing model assigns higher profit margin to the custom configuration units.

[@andyH_England]

...and conversely, the base models operate on lower margins to take advantage of the demand curve, thereby attracting potential new customers for the future. If you start experimenting with a business model that has been successful for decades, you are venturing into unknown risks.

[@Ryan-no5bf]

The base model is a loss leader. I doubt they make much on it, but it's worthwhile to have that option to get people in the Mac Ecosystem. AKA "My cheap PC died and I need an immediate replacement, maybe it's time to finally try a Mac". Apple will make money off of the people that want the more capable or higher storage machine, because those are generally the repeat customers that know what they want at this point.

[@RickLeslie]

I disagree. New user buys base spec and then needs more storage, can't upgrade the drive and decides not to get another Mac!

[@alfs3]

1000%agree!!! As an Apple Pro Tech for the past 29 years I’ve been saying exactly this for the past decade+ and I’m sick of Apple ripping us off on SSD and RAM! I used to order the best processor with the lowest RAM and drives - and order 3rd party of both at the same time I’d order my MBP and swap them both out immediately when my MBP arrived - saving myself $100’s every time! Then Apple started soldering RAM and making SSD annoying to swap out! Don’t even get me started on the garbage APFS format…

[@DS-pk4eh]

Apple is luxury company. While tech is very high level, some tech (that others are using too) like memory chips and storage chips are around 10-30x more expensive that what is the market. The upgrade prices are done based on what Apple feels not what what would properly priced upgrade be (like 8Gb costs 200USD, all while Apple cost is around 10USD) You pay the brand, just like people pay 200usd for Gucchi t-shirt or whatever other luxury item could be. They will not lower their prices, as buy know, they created strong enough following, that will even defend them, against all the facts and objectivity.

[@drsmith1988]

I very much agree with you. I ordered a Mac mini M4. I upgraded the RAM to 24GB and kept the SSD at 256 GB. If the upgrade tiers would have been, $100 instead of $200, I probably would have spent another $100, maybe $200 more to get 32Gb and 1TB. Keep the bottom tier the same. Make the mid tier 24GB and 512GB at $800 and the top tier 32GB and 1TB at $1000. I probably would have spent $900 or a $1000 because I would have felt less like I was getting ripped off less.

[@kaPaURL]

You don't just become a trillion dollar company with fair pricing.

[@Myoshin.]

Agree. Seems stupid to me that Apple customers pay a decent amount of money for their computer but then have to scrimp on the storage so that they can avoid the steep and unrealistic storage upgrade ladder. Just charge more on the basic computer and let us spec it up how we want without having to feel like we are getting ripped off on the storage upgrade.

[@Myoshin.]

Another gripe of mine is the way Apple still insists that if you want a 16" MBP instead of 14" then you need to pay $900 more

[@timleahezra]

@@Myoshin. just because I want to avoid bifocals doesn't mean I also want a pro chip

[@murdockscott]

I am with you 100%. Trying to buy a powerful Mac is a painful experience even for people who love them. The expensive storage, and the outrageous cost of more ram is one of the biggest points of pushback when trying to convince people that they are worthwhile. Add the lack of key entertainment software and good luck trying to get a teenager excited about getting a new Mac when many of their friends run down to the store and buy an extra TB of SSD with birthday money. 🤨

[@DeusRegum]

Get a haircut Greg. I can't believe you went on camera without properly grooming yourself. - Mom

[@user-hl9jq8iz4i]

😂

[@GregsGadgets]

I liked my hair today x.x

[@hotdognobun]

His hair look fine. He's a tech channel why you focused on his look?

[@ProjectileGrommet]

@@hotdognobun a mothers love knows no bounds

[@elysiumcore]

Leave that boy alone 😂

[@deheiligebron]

"Like many others, I use my Mac to earn money, so investing in an upgraded model can quickly pay for itself. The real question is: do you need the extra power and features if you're not using it to make money?

[@fanshaw]

You seem to think Apple doesn't understand this. They do: headline grabbing entry spec, wallet sucking upgrade because the base spec isn't really good enough. This is about the up-sell. This is about how much you're willing to pay once you've looked at the good value base model.

[@djacks247]

Yo these are actually just bad business arguments. Not even trying to defend Apple, but the logic used here was off. On the "buy 2 macs for same price as 1 upgraded one" The big concept you're missing here is mass manufacturing costs or "economies of scale". The cost to make an item decreases the more you manufacture it. If they make millions of base model units and only 100k of a custom unit, shipping out two base units costs a lot less and is more profitable. Same idea goes into upgrades - the RAM is unified on the chip - so they'll have to manufacture an entire chip to do your custom builds - its not comparable to RAM at retail (again, economies of scale makes that super cheap to manufacture). The RAM upgrades aren't based on a "per GB" pricing model the way you outlined, that wouldn't make sense either - the jumps are because they are swapping out the DRAM chips they use. Base model is (2) 8gb RAM chips. 24gb upgrade they replace one 8gbRAM chip with a 16gb chip. 32gb upgrade they replace the other 8gb chip with another 16gb chip. it makes sense why its even price increases across the board - it a chip swap. Same on M4 Pro - it starts with a 16gb and 8gb chips, first upgrade swaps the 8gb for a 32gb chip, the second upgrade swaps the 16gb chip for a 32gb chip. based on their business model, they don't make money on selling upgrades. They are actually purposely discouraging you to not upgrade. They make profits manufacturing one SOAC and one hardware unit as a base model, and selling it in the millions.

[@user-jr7bb6g9ev]

Do you know ram is easy to solder? It's a universal component so why would it cost so much more when every board has to add it

[@costafilh0]

This is how they get you. Base model or forget about it. It's just not worth it, especially storage when you can get external storage for a fraction of the price. If you need a lot of RAM, a PC starts to look like a better deal.

[@keithbromley8923]

Greg, let me ask you to think about a different question: What could I do with two base-model Mac Minis (joined together via a Thunderbolt cable)? Are there ways in which macOS could benefit from having two M4 chips (with their corresponding memory and storage) together? If so, this would be a great value.

[@ahmaddeeni]

Their value proposition is more heavily based on simple markers like storage and port numbers because those are things a broad data set of people would strongly consider? Especially now that the chips are at the point where it’s not a question of whether they can perform a task but how fast? Like you want to save 20 seconds for $300 more or do you want to double your storage for $200 more.

[@chucklesdawg9517]

It's about margins. The "default" option is much cheaper than customizing them and adding on more stuff, because Apple can mass produce the default option. They can offer the default for slightly less than they otherwise could, and the big volume makes up for the "lower" margin. They increase the price on the custom options to make up for the lesser volume. It's still excessive and probably shouldn't be THAT high, but that's the general idea.

[@carriegordon5830]

@@chucklesdawg9517 Agreed. They should not be selling computers with less than 512gb of storage. To do so is greedy because they know that 256 is not enough so people will go ahead and pay an ungodly amount to upgrade because it’s more convenient than external storage. Unfortunately we all fell into their ecosystem trap.

[@carriegordon5830]

@@chucklesdawg9517 If they weren’t so greedy, they could make expandable memory and storage.

[@user-jr7bb6g9ev]

They all need ram and storage soldered on, so why is it so much more expensive to use a different chip, that'd be a difference in their manufacturing not scale

[@yahzeeskellington]

Thinking about getting a MacBook Pro M4, and if the pricing was lower I would jump to 2TB SSD and double the RAM. That jump in price kept me from getting my Air with more storage. And I don’t think Apple prefers us buying external SSDs from third parties to save half on storage, do they?

[@dima1353]

I absolutely agree with you. Apple's greed works against them. And you haven't seen yet what's happening with these prices on the European market ! I have a Mac, but these prices make it hard for me to recommend these computers to anyone. RAM and especially SSD are simply not a factor when buying a modern PC or Windows laptop, they are the last line on the list. Even with a limited budget, people buy as much as they need, not as much as they can afford. And when people see these prices for upgrades, they think " Apple, can you fool us in a less obvious way?" Because it's even kind of insulting. Especially the example you gave, that it's cheaper to buy two Mac Mini than to upgrade one to 32/512. People see this and twirl their fingers at their temples when I suggest they look at a MacBook.

[@RichWithTech]

Greg that thumbnail is such a great way of illustrating the problem!

[@goobfilmcast4239]

I just don't get the gripe about storage....but I am not a content creator nor do I use my Apple Silicon Mac to make money. I do edit rather large photos and videos (using Pixelmator and Resolve) and have yet to run up against a storage barrier. I have always kept my Mac drives lean and tidy...developing those good habits many years ago. Video, photos and Docs etc are simply moved to fast external NVMe "working" drive while my Time Machine backup lives on another "slow" but high capacity dedicated ext SSD. For just a little over 200 bucks I have octuple the storage offered by Apple's "upgrade".... That's fine by me as I will be migrating from a base M1 Mini to the M4 next week. It will be easy-peasy to do

[@captainswift8465]

If apple made 512GB of RAM standard and halved all upgrade prices for RAM and storage I think people would find upgrading mac's both reasonable and affordable because it used to be that to get a 10 core gpu spec M3 MacBook Air with 512GB SSD and 16GB of memory was £1,499 which is kinda insane considering it is their 'entry level' MacBook with a configuration that is considered fairly entry level for a good laptop in 2024. It's slightly better now they have changed it to 16GB of RAM base spec (even for the M3 and M2) but the upgrade prices can still make it quite expensive if you spec it to a more developer level (maybe 1-2TB with 24GB RAM)

[@alfredoaraujo9294]

Thanks as consumers never defend a bigger corporation as they use that as a reason to not give you what you want. Its better to have more than not enough. Great video Greg.

[@GregsGadgets]

Ty and agree

[@rene.s.s]

$100 for extra 256GB would be perfect. Hopefully we see this change soon. I would upgrade from my M2 Mini in a heartbeat which I purchased in a heartbeat for less than $500 with education discount.

[@geoffstrickler]

It’s truly insane that you can buy 2x 16GB/256GB M4 Mac Minis for a dollar less than buying a single 32GB/512GB M4 Mac Mini. Apple needs to cut the upgrade prices in half, maybe less.

[@diego.lopez_wav]

People often forget that the consumer makes the rules, and companies like apple take advantage of that. If people stop buying their products and start forcing apple into changing their base specs for their machines, they would have no other option than doing it if they want to still sell products.

[@jmctoob2]

I was excited to get an M4 mini, but the upgrade prices made me stop and wait it out..

[@bemacbe]

Look at it like this - Normally Apple would charge $999 for the Mac mini base configuration. But in an effort to capture more of the gaming market, and ultimatum more users, Apple has decided to lower the price and double the memory of it's lowest model. It is genius!

[@MrGustoIT]

I understand what you are saying .. but what you suggest is NOT good for their bottom line. They would prefer you not upgrading because it is to expensive… as that means you are in need to upgrade 1 or 2 cycles sooner than instead being able to fully stack the mac you really want. So lowering those first step upgrades 256 to 512 and 16 to 24 or 32gb is shooting them selves in the foot. Especially this first step needs to be expensive to get people to not take it when they actually want to or need to, to ensure they come back for a new mac sooner….

[@TheMaxAwesome]

So here’s the thing. I will buy the base model Mac Mini with 16/256. Then I will spend additional money on storage and a Thunderbolt 3/4 enclosure. If I *only* want another 256GB, that will cost me around $80. If I want another 1TB, we are talking $125-150 range. So the money for extra storage *will* be spent, but you would have to be pants-on-head kinda crazy to spend $200 for another…256GB. And that is stuck inside the Mac Mini and can’t be used by your next Apple device or whatever. If you have a USB-C iPhone, you want that external drive anyway because of how much faster you can transfer pictures and videos for working on them.

[@isiahfriedlander5559]

Wrong: Apple does not listen to consumers... They upgraded the ram because of the A.I. push of Copilot PCs, they are still behind in "TOPs", they would be waaay behind with only 8 gb.

[@casedistorted]

They’d totally only put in 8GB if they weren’t forced to give us 16Gb for AI. Just shows what pos’s they are.

[@ggproductions7078]

I imagine there has to be an amount of redundancy built in with regards to returns. If you order an "upgraded" machine but then return it, it becomes more difficult to sell than a "standard" version. The fact that they are bespoke means there is a different manufacturing cost as well as the returns aspect. That seems to me to be the only reason that could have any, vaguely acceptable reasoning.

[@mattias800]

I wish every tech youtuber made a video about this. Apple is predatory with their upgrade pricing, and to your last point, yes, that is the sole reason I am not upgrading to M4. All upgrade prices should be slashed in half. Increase base price if margins are too low.

[@briang6652]

Right. Apple is still 1 of the greediest tech companies. That's how it's pushed to the richest.

[@Cujobob]

They’re no more greedy than others, in fact, they’re likely less. Google monetizes everything you do. Your search history and any info they can farm on you. You’re buying a product which makes you the product there. Corporations are motivated by profit. To think Apple is any different is absurd, but Apple could be so much worse as Google and Facebook have shown. Edit: and Twitter, and..

[@martinXY]

Name the top 5.

[@kevintmclean]

what would you recommend for a monitor for a base model mini?

[@Myoshin.]

Good Question !

[@billyg8614]

Especially if you buy the M4 Pro version of the Mac Mini. It supports TB5, yet the expensive Studio Display is stuck running at 60Hz.

[@yDkayVal]

Giving a lot of thought on that, for portability specifically I was thinking something on the realm of a ASUS ZenScreen, where you can pack it on a normal backpack in the notebook section and it gives video/power with only one cable that you can connect to your mac mini and the mac mini itself fits in the bottom of a backpack easily as well, you basically have a portable notebook with a wireless keyboard and mouse if you can connect it easily to a power outlet =)

[@HeyNiagraFalls]

ASUS ProArt Display 27" Monitor PA278CV. Native 2.7K, 1440 Apple Display Support with Display Port connection, meaning you won't have to change resolution to read fonts. Apple supports 2.7K and 5K resolution. Stay away from 4K as everything is fuzzy and needs to be scaled at the correct readable resolution. Thank me later

[@HeyNiagraFalls]

@@yDkayVal Mac Mini also connects to iPad and able to use MacOS on the iPad.

[@mccandless1]

Really great video Greg. Well said on all points.

[@af4396]

I'd much rather their base computers start $100 dollars more on every device, and come standard with 1TB of storage. The upgrade pricing is ridiculous. We all knew this was going to happen though, when ram and SSDs were first soldered onto the motherboards, years ago. Gone are the days of replacing the internal disc drive and hard drive with 2 SSDs in RAID for cheap... :(

[@timleahezra]

so so so true. This is why I am typing this from an Asus laptop with 24gb of ram and a 1TB hd (with room for another) that only cost $1000. Also why I priced out an air, pro studio & mini yesterday and didn't buy any of them. All despite having been a mac user for 25 years. This is much worse since these are not upgradable because that means you need to go overkill out of the gate, or risk it being inadequate with nothing to do but lose more on resale.

[@user-jr7bb6g9ev]

All valid points, but In defense of Mac Asus has pretty terrible laptop QC and until ARM takes over mobile windows is a hindrance. I really wish these points didn't exist so Apple would have to compete again

[@rodgerwang7017]

How about adding external SSD via type-c ports? It's a desktop computer, adding external SSD won't do any harm, and costs little.

[@rickkarrer8370]

Yeah, I don’t mind the base storage, what I mind is the unreasonable pricing for upgrades. You can buy a 2 TB NV V Dr., that performs just as well as Apple’s internal storage, for $100. Their pricing structure is truly just there to take advantage of their customers, and it needs to stop.

[@paulharrison8379]

When cheap 286 PC/AT clones came out in the mid 1980s they sold well because memory and storage upgrades for them cost no more than the cost of the chips. This allowed me to buy a cheap 286 PC/AT PC and then to upgrade the disk storage and the video card in the following years for very little money. At the time the mini computer manufactures sold cheap base machines and then charged a fortune to upgrade your minicomputer. These mini computer manufacturers went bankrupt because people preferred cheaper PCs. If Apple is not careful they will similarly loose their market is their users think that they are similarly being ripped off.

[@jaymills1720]

Can you change the RAM or SSD aftermarket ?

[@andyreichert499]

I ordered a base mac mini. If I could have gotten at least 1TB for $200, I would have bit. But for $400, I can do a lot cheaper with external storage. I also wish I could jump to 32GB RAM, but not at that cost. I also wish I could have gone from M4 to M4 pro for $200, not $400. So base model with external storage for me. I kinda get that they want to have continuity between the $4000 machines and the base machines. And if they make the low-end a better deal, it gets harder to get all the premiums at the top. I really wish upgrades were more manageable for when I get my next high powered machine, but we'll have to see.

[@yodathejedi]

Also, for people like me that have used PC:s all their life (+35yrs)and really wanted to try out a Apple computer gets really scared away of those upgrade prices in comparison, because that is what you do, compare prices. I would like to have if I got to choose as my PC is, 2tb storage, 64gb ram & best M4 pro cpu but that's just a crazy high price I think, if I'd go down to the minimum I can think of that's 48gb ram, 1tb hard drive and same CPU but it's still very expensive, in comparison. The step to switch systems completely without knowing if I'd actually like it is just to high even if I can afford it.

[@adamcarlson4922]

Aren’t the Pro chips essentially two standard chips in SLI? I can’t wait to see someone try to do that themselves with two base models for less than the cost of a ram upgrade.

[@dennisvanmierlo]

Exactly! The bad taste in my mouth about these upgrade prices is blocking me from buying a new Mac. I just keep my Mac Mini M1 still running for another year. Sorry but no sorry Apple, this One is on you.

[@Beau_LB]

So true, I always get base model macs, but if the storage upgrade for more reasonable. I would spend even more money and Apple would make more money

[@Realist-m9c]

Apple’s insane upgrade pricing has the been a huge factor for people that choose PCs.

[@murrieteacher]

I agree, I was finally going to go back to Apple for my PC but when I started to work out what my spec would cost I just pulled the Intel CPU out and put a better chip in and doubled my memory for a lot less than a new Mac. So my iPas and iPhone still have to talk to Intel. Bugger!

[@Warped9]

Odd, in Canada the M4 iMac with 16gb standard is still the same price as the M3 version with 8gb standard.

[@jon0807]

I completely agree with the upgrade pricing model. It's what really kept me from switching over to mac from pc for a very long time. I still haven't totally switched over cause if I need a really powerful machine to do gaming and serious editing, you can't beat a custom built pc. But I do have a macbook, an ipad, and I just recently got an iphone. If Apple were to lower the prices of those upgrades, I think I would completely switch over to Apple since they all work so well together. But because of those outrageous prices, I'm be sticking with my macbook till it dies. And I think it's what prevents PC users to make the switch as well

[@david1610]

My two cents: An M-silicon mac can last for years. Certainly no need to sequentially go M1, M2, M3 and M4. However, M4 does seem to be as much of a milestone as the original M1 was. The M4 Pro chip with 10 Performance Cores, Thunderbolt 5 (think ten years of use) is incredible and definitely worth the price if you want to do anything more than just basic use or if you are finding an entry level M1 you bought in the past could be a bit zappier. I would never buy a 256 GB SSD Mac but the problem is that a lot of people buy from a shop offering entry level price models rather than watching videos like this and more carefully calbrating their needs so there will end up being some buyers' remorse due to that. When all is said and done, these Mac Mini (Pro) machines seem to be quite sensational (only hesitancy is until the one I ordered arrives! :)

[@PLANETWATERMELON]

I think it is the custom orders that hurt the upgrade pricing because so many people order special make ups with all kinds of configuations only to return them back to Apple at Apples loss becuase now Apple has to sell it as a refurb for less money. I think the pre configuared models should be at a lower price than custom orders. for the upgrade parts. I think $150 is a fair upgrade price. Great example though in this video.

[@isbestlizard]

Probably going to end up buying 4 base models and turning them into a cluster. 64GB of memory at 480GB/sec with a tb4 interconnect (~4GB/sec fully connected) is pretty nice

[@RootinrPootine]

Basically it’s always best to get the base model and upgrade it sooner than to spec out. You save money. Even if selling and trade ins seem like a bad deal, they aren’t because of what you save by not getting a spec bump, and the sooner you sell the more you get so it evens out nicely. Don’t know why people don’t get this. iPhone is the best example. Trade it value is still pretty high after two years. At 3 it’s nothing. Meaning you have to hold on to it for even longer to break even on the trade in you could have gotten. Sweet spot. Do the math.

[@Gearsandco]

Apple raised to 16gb Ram for all macs and even the M2 macbook air btw, but it is a crime that they can’t seem to make the upgrades more affordable!

[@timz9862]

Apple's missed opportunity: 27" iMac. I bought a Macbook Pro last November and like it, but I still have a 27" 5K screen Intel iMac and the screen just cannot be rivaled except by Apple's standalone 5K display. I'm not sure why it's so hard for 3rd party manufacturers to make 5K displays? I also don't think people today understand how cheap computers are today. Back in the 90s, getting 1GB of RAM was thousands of dollars, not including the actual computer cost. Computers are one of the things that have gone down is price over the years. Cars and everything else have gone up. You can say Apple is expensive, but what you get for the price is actually decent - not great, but decent. Some gaming PCs are thousands of dollars today, yet no one complains about them.

[@VaderPaw]

Apple upgrade pricing is about upselling you the next model. Its not about comparative market pricing model.

[@vrapan]

Apple upgrades were expensive but made sense within the lineup now that memory is part of the soc it hasn’t made any sense at all especially ever since they introduced those weird 36gb configs with the M3. The main reason I am not upgrading my m1 32gb is that I would like 64GB memory. I just cannot get that on any config other than a top of the line M4 Max which is stupid since I don’t need all that compute power.

[@j340_official]

Sooner or later you all will realize that booting macOS from an external drive will DISABLE Apple intelligence

[@1ozcaffeine]

interesting....

[@j340_official]

@ Apple giveth (TB5 pcie4.0 speeds) and taketh away (to use the intelligence features, you must use their expensive internal storage).

[@Create-The-Imaginable]

What do you mean? What is going on with that? 😲

[@trumpdrago517]

Apple will likely use ai to get around right to repair laws. Let’s say they’re forced to allow 3rd party iPhone batteries. “Fine but once the phones opened we can no longer guarantee the privacy of Apple intelligence so it’s disabled tongue 😛”

[@user-jr7bb6g9ev]

@@j340_official Can you solder more on? Or is the cost still insane until years after when its no longer viable

[@ChristopherGeorgiou-x6x]

The fact that in the UK a 2tb gen 4 ssd is about £140 and Apple charges £60 more for 1/8 th of the capacity is crazy to me.

[@nazukeoya]

I just pre-ordered my 16” M4 Max MacBook Pro maxed out with 128GB RAM and 8TB SSD. Pray for my credit card. 🙏🏼

[@gqsown2516]

Mass production lowers costs. Apple knows that it will produce and sell far more base models than it will specs. So, they can get better rates on mass producing the base configuration than special configurations. While I completely agree with you that, in particular, storage costs doesn't match the price of storage.

[@JamesParsons1]

Can't wait for them to increase all prices to the higher one rather than reducing it

[@ix905]

Can we get a Mac Mini NAS / RAID app that encourages people to buy multiple M4 Mac Minis and combining their 256GB storages into a larger networked drive or making external SSDs work like part of the boot drive to make fun of this until it stops being economically better than storage upgrade prices that make sense so people can just buy the storage they actually need?

[@vongodric]

Fully agree. Ram and storage upgrades should be inline with industry prices

[@andyH_England]

MS and Samsung have the same upgrade prices.

[@MarceloGarcia9]

Totally agree. Windows PCs start at least at 512GB but most have 1TB. Even though it’s Windows when 2 TB EHDs are as low as $90 that may be faster than the internal SSD in a Mac then Apple’s gouging at that point

[@LocRobser]

Yeah lowering the upgrade price would be nice, but letting you expand the memory and storage would be even nicer, in my opinion.

[@andyH_England]

Apple uses soldered RAM and storage for several beneficial reasons. This design choice only affects those who wish to purchase the base model and upgrade it at a lower cost. This approach would, understandably, be detrimental to Apple's business.

[@thatpitter]

Yes. The price tiers are like legitimately a scam. I swear something needs to be done

[@TimedOut...NoWayo]

Dear Greg, Too bad, Love Tim.

[@GregsGadgets]

I still love you, Tim -sent from my iPhone

[@kevin2028]

The problem with these machines is they are still underpowered for 3D work. The 3D world is all Cuda GPUs and NVIDIA. Apple can do what it wants, but just give the machines the ability to run EGPUS, I don't think I can hold out much longer. The 3D world is entrenched in Nvidia. Apple computers don't really cut anymore.

[@JamesEzell]

I don’t think they had a choice with the base memory due to AI requirements. I totally agree that lowering the cost to $100 per tier would be far better and would make me want to buy an upgraded Mac

[@mvp_kryptonite]

Apple didn’t listen to any feedback. People forgetting the AI experience would have been terrible if it was slow. They need to get it right as 1st impressions are so important with this feature noe

[@lancer1993]

I for one use a lot of internal storage, I have a 2021 M1 iMac with 2Tb but need more. I just find it more reliable and faster. I would have loved them to put a M4 Pro in the iMac.

[@philsviewsfilm]

This pricing is how they keep pushing the boundaries.

[@BillSawyerPlus]

I think they don't sell enought Mac\'s in general to make the upgrades cheaper. Once they are made, there is no swapping out parts on them. So all those SKU's have to have a planned inventory amount. What they should do is offer like 3 config options... max per Mac type... a base, a Mid and fully loaded. I would bet Apple could afford to make the Mid and Full cheaper.

[@ElevationEveryWeekend]

I get what you are saying, but I think we need to realize that Apple amortizes the costs of their products (especially at the lower end) with this seemingly irrational pricing structure.

[@Pintosonic]

The price of upgrade should at least be constant per megabytes for ram and per GB for SSD across the whole range. And seriously, in 2024 only 256GB of SSD doesn't make any sense, it should be 1TB

[@PeteEdmunds]

Their strategy is akin to selling a base model Porche - but without the tyres. It will still run - but you need to buy the Tyres to get the best out of it. And then they price the tyres at 33% of the cost of the car (ie for mac mini the upgrade to work well is 200/599 % increase). As you say its insane!

[@kentseaburn]

If you need better tires a year from now or if you get a flat, you have to buy a whole new Porsche. This is why they can name their price for adequate tires that cost them nothing to manufacture. The wheels are welded to the axles and everything under the hood is welded to the frame.

[@andyH_England]

That analogy doesn't hold up because Apple still provides RAM and storage. A more suitable comparison would be to a basic Porsche model, where you'd get a less powerful engine, cheaper rims, and perhaps a basic audio system. Similar to the Macs, you can still use it, but you won't enjoy the benefits of upgrading to better specifications.

[@nurvx2]

Apple doesn't charge for the hardware. They charge for the will to upgrade. That's why this pricing makes sense. If you're a guy looking for a 1TB 24GB setup and you're into Apple, you're already willing to fork up. Apple knows this.

[@Fredjikrang]

I used Macs most of my life, and I would love to still use them. But there is no way I can reasonably accept paying 5-10X the price for internal storage. I strongly agree that if they didn't have insane upgrade pricing they would sell a lot more computers.

[@BrandonGraham-bg8oq]

Dont forget the trade in value remands the same as a base model regardless of the increase of any additional upgrades.

[@rwh_]

As the market is maturing, it is increasingly difficult for Apple to continue to upgrade specs YOY without increasing the price. The way they’ve managed to make it work is keeping the base price the same but over charging for upgrades. Most other mature markets work like this too: cars, homes, airlines, restaurants, etc. If you’re a smart customer you can exploit the base model and buy external upgrades later

[@l21n18]

Unfortunately you’re quite limited in upgradability now

[@andyH_England]

Yeah, I miss the base 8GB Windows machines. I could get them 50% off after a few months, but 16GB of RAM is now the minimum, which is more challenging. The unintentional consequences of demanding higher base specs affect those of us lower down the food chain. All my Windows machines from the last decade are 8GB and have done what I need with no issues.

[@arielaco]

Apple didn't listen customers and then upgrade memory, they need it to run Apple Intelligence

[@gwvaio]

Nice to see you supporting the consumers for once

[@hpsfresh]

Margin for base model is just less than other models. It is kind of discount.

[@andyH_England]

Samsung and Microsoft charge the same $200 when they offer upgrades. So, why do people find Apple culpable but never other OEMs? People need to understand economics, and Apple is an easy target. More specifically, business models: Apple leverages the demand curve by reducing its margins on the base models to attract more buyers. This is subsidised by charging more for upgrades, as Apple understands that most people paying for higher specs can afford it more than those buying the base models. Microsoft, another big company, uses the same strategy. When the market changes, as it has with AI, Apple has to make tough decisions, which can mean losing money by keeping prices the same while starting with a base model of 16GB. I estimate that this could cost them around $0.75 billion, assuming there are no savings made elsewhere. While it's true that RAM and storage are relatively inexpensive, the issue isn't solely about cost. In running a business, you need a model that delivers acceptable margins for shareholders. While the high upgrade prices might not appeal to many customers, I understand the company's reasoning. Ultimately, as a consumer, I have the final say in whether to make a purchase. In my case, I choose to buy the base model because it meets my needs, just as it does for millions of others.

[@roch145]

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the profits from Mac sales are generated by memory and storage upgrades. I guess it’s at least 50 percent.