Dear Authors: Your Romances Suck

Romances in fantasy very often have the same flaws. I get WWWAAAYYY to agrivated talking about these problems within the fantasy genre.
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[@jamesrich5640]

The bad communication trope that causes unneeded conflict drives me crazy. In fantasy, in tv or in movies. It drives me up the wall

[@Kim_Possible.]

Yes! So many times problems only occur because of bad communication.

[@SH-qs7ee]

And yet amazingly, is probably the most realistic trope in romance; I'm sure many of us have been on the end of that, or even guilty of that ourselves

[@Ben-xj2rf]

in some movies it's the whole reason the plot exists.

[@skynikan6075]

Especially when half of the story is unnecessary drama because of that, that's very cheap storytelling

[@prod805212]

Tropes are tropes for a reason. I would be very inclined to think that 'poor communication' is one of the most common reasons for a serious relationship to end. With that in mind, i suggest we explore these tropes even further.

[@sabrina.lnd95]

I'd rather have strong friendships than flimsy romantic relationships

[@BlackReshiram]

Gods yeah, please. I need more friendships that have heartbreak and makeups and friends going to the ends of the earth for eachother.

[@BlackReshiram]

this sounded sarcastic but I mean it

[@jeckjeck3119]

Same. The moment Romance is introduced, I'm out.

[@SH-qs7ee]

A Synopsis of Most Fantasy Romances: "I hate you" "I hate you" "It feels weird without you" "I love you"

[@loriannwhite8384]

Basically.

[@J0rask]

Everybody is a tsundere

[@TheHunterOfYharnam]

i hate sand

[@hellothere2464]

Imperial Diplomacy are anakin and sand enemies to lovers

[@alyssachantaychampagne2773]

Or replace "It feels weird without you" with "Damn I shouldn't have introduced you to that other attractive person"

[@snakemilthescienceeel2565]

"I've saved my friends from situations, and guess what - we didn't then BANG!" Ah, I see where you've gone wrong. You must - you MUST - do the sexing after saving someone. It's just convention.

[@zechariahbryan1568]

Idk i'm pretty sure i'd be at least 62% more inclined to want to bone someone if they saved my life

[@elazarsinger4187]

Ah yes, the sexing. Truly, the sexing is most important.

[@zechariahbryan1568]

Wise words, @@elazarsinger4187 . That's a quote from Confucius, right? Or was it Marcus Aurelius?

[@elazarsinger4187]

@@zechariahbryan1568 both

[@seigeengine]

Honestly, if someone literally saved my life, esp. as a stranger, a little sexing is the least I could do. But that's the differentiation between a sense of obligation and just... not being a narcissist.

[@nihad-m]

I honestly can not thank you enough for this video. Might I also add: does every book NEED romance? Most of sff deal with apocalyptic end of the world scenarios where there is enough drama to keep readers engaged. Love stories are almost always unrealistic/ not needed. I want more books with main characters who are single at the beginning and remain so throughout the story, because there're more urgent things to deal with. Sigh.... I have lots of feelings about this topic 😑

[@calliepickering2480]

I feel like this would have been good advice for Vin and Elend in Mistborn. There was no romance described in Mistborn between them. We were told that they loved each other but it was never shown (they should have been hormonal teenagers but they acted like 50 year olds after their third divorce). Would have been a good opportunity for a friendship rather.

[@Ben-xj2rf]

lust is a very primal emotion, and will exist in any scenario. So no, romances in these situations are not unrealistic.

[@nihad-m]

@@Ben-xj2rf... clearly you don't know the difference between the two and also you didn't pay attention/missed the point of what I said.

[@monus782]

Amén with that

[@EADaang]

THANK you for saying this. I thought I was the only one who felt that way.

[@bealtaine1269]

Your cat is so cute 💚

[@kmk1225]

Ikr, just chilling in the background heh

[@thehoogard]

Was it love at first sight?

[@kmk1225]

@@thehoogard I chuckled

[@siriagnetheeliassen2530]

It's a cat so maybe.

[@Dog-vb5dc]

@@kmk1225 readying itself to pounce.

[@jessicawurm23]

One of the things I LOVE so much about Tolkien's works (you know, besides loving every single bit of it) is that there is so much platonic and filial love, not just romantic! Thank you Daniel for emphasizing that those relationships need to be developed and appreciated too

[@davidm9612]

It honestly drives me nuts how often I see people point at Sam and Frodo and go "Look, they have emotions about each other! They must be in love!" Instead of just "These are two really close friends that have been through hell together, and it would be weird if they didn't feel any emotions towards each other". Close friends can love each other without it being romantic. I'm a straight bloke, but I'm not ashamed to say I love my mates. Doesn't mean I wanna bang em. They're like brothers and sisters

[@ryanratchford2530]

I completely agree with you with love at first sight it’s so frustrating. I actually have one of my characters think he’s fallen in love at first sight, only for him to realise he knows nothing about that person & he’s just infatuated/ obsessed with her. And he quickly learns that that’s not such a great to be.

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

Ryan Ratchford i just want to say thank you for writing that character 😆

[@jenniferschillig3768]

Spoiler alert if you haven't read this book... That's kind of how it falls out in Mercedes Lackey's The Firebird, one of my favorite of her stand-alone fairy tale/ballet retellings. Ilya, our young hero, has a history of not exactly thinking with his brain where a pretty girl is involved. He infiltrates the palace of the Katschei, an evil sorcerer with a dozen captive beautiful maidens in his thrall, and falls instantly in love with Tatiana, the most beautiful of them. Every time she does or says something, he tells himself "how wise she is! How kind!" But once he's defeated the Katschei and freed his captives (one of which is Ilya's dim-witted, hot-headed brother who'd tried and failed to rescue the maidens), he realizes that Tatiana is a stupid, selfish, spoiled brat, and the things he'd built up her imagined personality around were all just brief, fleeting moments that had nothing to do with her real personality. He decides to go through with the upcoming marriage anyway, because he gave his word and won't break it, and besides, a woman as beautiful as she is would only be bound to end up a captive to some other evil wizard or villain if no one protected her. But it turns out that she's cheating on him pre-wedding with the aforementioned brother, who is her (shallow) idea of "a man". He's relieved to have the out, and flees to the woman he realizes he really loves--the titular Firebird, a shapeshifting fairy queen.

[@shyannevasquez5257]

I hate it so much when the hero leaves the love interest to protect them or for their own good… Even though the love interest always says that they will stick by the hero no matter what… It is the stupidest shit and I can’t stand it

[@iamamess7522]

Daniel: I've saved some friends from certain circumstances and guess what? We DIDN'T BANG! Daniel's friends: sad :(

[@TheBonsaiGarden]

Lol

[@BedtimeBookworm]

Someone said you were trying to get a date?? 😂😂😂 hilarious. Booktube is not how you get dates. Usually 🤪🤪🤪

[@LeeAnneRMT]

Really? Cause if things were different I would totally date him after watching this. Polite, eloquent, well read, good looking, clearly has morals and standards isnt spineless.

[@berserker8884]

That " STOP IT" was literally a demonic screetch from hell. Love it :'D

[@AlexiaCambaling798]

I have such a great dislike of love at first sight I'd actually refuse to read a book that has it. I do agree infatuation is okay, especially in YA. Teenagers get infatuated a lot. But love? Especially thinking you found your true love at 16-18? It's a no for me. Same with love triangles. If I see a hint of a love triangle, I won't pick up the book or dnf it if not done well. I just got so tired of it, especially since bad boys are so popular and I hate bad boys a lot.

[@bhatfield1417]

I get it and also if not done well don't like it, but I feel like love at first sight is basically infatuation at first sight, teenagers always say I'm in love when they're not really in love. Bottom line if it's not done well then 👎

[@matthewsmith4647]

The bad boy trope if done correctly is fine. But let him be a bad boy, not a good guy who just has a motorcycle and a heart of gold hidden by rough angles. Case study. Frank Castle (The Punisher) is a bad boy. Jacob from Twilight is not lol

[@seigeengine]

Isn't that kind of exactly what teenagers are like though? Blowing infatuations out of proportion?

[@starsun6363]

Yeah, but it seems like the authors agree with them. The author doesn't seem to know it's not true. A book that does this well is All American Girl, the main chracter is just as bad as most YA characters, but the author KNOWS it. They know that she is a hormonal teengaer that is bad at thinking about consiquences and is easily influenced. But because the author knows it, she grows as a person, and learns that she is WRONG in most if not many aspects and gets over herself. Another example of this is the Besty-Tacy series, especially the high school books. It as all the tropes that I hate, immature girl that's obbsessed with her looks, love triangles, crushes, and other things. But it's written by a fifty year old woman looking back on her high school years and knows how trivial these struggles are. Most of all, even the main character, though she is niave and a bit thick, she is well rounded and feels like a real teenager. One of the many reacoring themes is how she has grown each year, and how she wants to improve. Not to mention she's genuinly a nice person and wants to be better. Most YA chacracters do not do this. The authors plays it as the romance is the biggest deal ever, even though it isn't, because they want to appeal to teenagers. So that's why it's bad.

[@katethegreat4918]

This is one of the reasons why I hated Romeo and Juliet. I always found it super annoying when people used it as an example of true love. 🙄

[@ghostofsparta757]

"LGBT relationships don't exist back then" Ancient Greeks: Are we a joke to you?

[@dumusstarbeiten5063]

or medieval eastern europe. actually, lgbts where normal and where accepted in eastern europe until the 18th century when a csar wanted to modernise the east and took the homophobic west as an ideal. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Europe

[@MarieCrossbow]

They didn't exist in the modern sense. Man-man relationships were generally teacher-student or older-younger in nature, and it was a great embarrassment if anyone found out you were the "woman" or submissive one of the relationship.

[@Andreasdenfrie]

It is interesting how many of the conventionally accepted "truths" about mediveal times are actually misunderstandings by early Victorian archeologs, historians and writers.

[@3dreamsequence]

Which makes me wonder why people think this current movement is so "progressive." It's not. It's the same thing that's been happening for thousands of years. It's cycling, not progressing.

[@TheMightofDab]

@@3dreamsequence I guess moving on from pedestry can be seen as progressing, at least

[@donniedarko3290]

"He stepped down, trying not to look long at her, as if she was the Sun. Yet he saw her like the Sun, even without looking." -Sincerely, a non-fantasy book

[@jenniferschillig3768]

Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina. :-)

[@katethegreat4918]

@@jenniferschillig3768 Hey, I’m reading that book now!

[@bigbrainenergyguy]

Love at first sight can work if the character thinks they're in love but the reader knows they're not. You can have their arc be about realizing they were never truly in love, which would be a fun twist on a cliche.

[@jonahnolastnameneeded3130]

Or it can be a tragedy, about how your romance won’t work with a dude you literally just met, like Romeo and Juliet

[@addheading]

Our Chemical Hearts did that. (not fantasy though)

[@harmonlanager2670]

My reasoning for having non-racist medieval societies in my fantasy stories is that, in a world with elves and dwarves and all kinds of other races, humanity has a more unified mindset. Essentially, they aren't racist against humans because they perceive non-humans as a bigger threat.

[@nickolasdiamond5619]

I like this

[@scottjones6860]

Joel Rosenberg brings this up in his Sleeping Dragon series.

[@cybersketcher1130]

It's just a mental shortcut your brain takes.

[@cooperross9495]

Or, as Terry Pratchett put it: Black and white lived in perfect harmony, and ganged up against green.

[@erickalbani546]

Ah, the Warhammer school of sociology

[@MagicalHatStudios]

Love at first sight spoils the whole part about getting to know the characters and seeing their dynamic. Like if the narrator just sees someone and BAM fireworks well then we're already running on the assumption they'll get together. Kinda takes the journey out of it.

[@vanessaajohn]

I just found your channel and I’ve binged so much videos! New fan

[@OlvaZsofi]

Absolutely agree! I just want to add how uncomfortable it makes me that in some fantasy books, the only notable women are prostitutes. Nice to know that women are only good for paid sex. Can you make a video about a positive examples of romances in fantasy books in the future? From recent years I only found two examples I enjoyed and I'd like to find more: the love triangle turned polyamory in Fifth Season is done extremely well, and the Final Empire actually has really good and consent-based buildup for Vin and her significant otter (haven't read further since then, so if it goes horribly wrong I'm unaware, please don't spoil).

[@user-cx9nc4pj8w]

warbreaker has a very good romance as well.

[@HimiShoichi]

Got to the part about friendships and hit the subscribe button immediately. Man, I WISH there were more stories about buddies, like... please... it can't be that hard.

[@jeddstevie8252]

Another trope I hate is everyone being paired up in a couple at the end of a series just to reinforce the idea of a happy ending. And I say fuck that because being in a relationship doesn't entail happiness and you don't have to be in a relationship to be happy. This trope really bores me cause it's so expected, so recycled, so boring and it leads to authors forcing romance when in reality the characters have no real chemistry. I'd rather read a series where characters start as friends/enemies and end as friends. Or a character that remains single at the end of the series because again, you don't need to be in a relationship to be happy. I just want some strong friendships, two characters don't have to bone just cause they're in the same room.

[@elsaduvignacq1928]

God it's so nice to see video like these! I agree with every single word you said! Love your channel

[@kamuelalee]

What if a witch's spell is cast to create "love at first sight?!"

[@jimzimmer2048]

Fuck off

[@huaiscrblol5077]

Damn jim zimmer, that's a little rude, don't you think? @kamuelalee If it was from a spell or curse, (in my opinion) it wouldn't be real love. Someone's emotions is being messed with magic, and that feeling wouldn't happen without it. Like a lot of the comments here, it's basically a variation of "character thinks they're in love, but they're actually not."

[@kamuelalee]

@@huaiscrblol5077 Hmm, I will ponder your magical response.

[@ryanratchford2530]

I'm so glad to see another Dear Authors! I just re-watched the first one yesterday. And yeah... Romance is usually handeled badly. I'm hoping to write about two women who've been in a (turning into) a long term relationship (inter-racial, strange how you mentioned that both) and certain internal and external conflicts that causes (made worse by both of their personalities). The other romance plot i'm hoping to do is a subversion of the classic, hero's journey boy meets the beautiful princess (kind of objectifies her & view her only as a romantic interest, rather than a person) and in a John Green Paper towns/ Looking for Alaska way- subvert the boy's expectations where he learns that maybe a relationship isn't for the best for either of them atm & that he should really put the effort into learning more about HER as a person and become a friend.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

Just because I am a woman that does NOT mean I need female leads or strong female characters!!!!! Some of my favorite books and movies have male leads and bland female love interests or no female characters at all and I'm fine with that! I'm not an idiot who has to see my gender "represented" in order to feel validation in who I am! Let me say that again. I do NOT need to see other women being "strong" or "heros" or "independent" in order to be those things myself. I am a hospice nurse who cares for the dying and who sword fights in my free time. I am a normal person who doesn't want to be pandered to or coddled. In fact I find it far FAR more insulting to shoe horn in "strong" female leads or "independent" women into stories that don't need them. People demanding "representation" in media is retarded. A plot calls for what it calls for and no one should apologize for that or change it to PANDER to a certain demographic. Come on I am so sick of seeing people say this. Do YOU need see your specific demographic represented in a positive way in order to validated in who YOU are as a person? If you answer yes then you need some serious therapy because you have some serious issues to work through.

[@futtynucker5278]

You mean like Zelda & Link

[@futtynucker5278]

You mean like Link & Zelda

[@merxmiller7469]

@@WhitneyDahlin Thanks for saying it so eloquently. I agree.

[@adeyemioyemade1631]

@@WhitneyDahlin I think the whole point of such characters is to show that not all people are cut from the same cloth. I.E. there are so many different type of people in the world so why are there only few in fiction. Granted many of these supposed representation tend to fall flat on its face and make them less human, thus failing at their intended purposes, kinda why I like WoT because it explores very different people in different cultures.

[@TheP1x3l]

I’m writing a dark modern fantasy novel and pretty much the whole thing is gay art students at an international college in Hong Kong because I just snapped. I’m writing what I want to read.

[@jimzimmer2048]

Add the riots at well

[@ichimatsu13]

Heck yeah, write what you want :)

[@s.i.taylor9465]

This video is so funny but so true. I love your voices and your animated personality.

[@tracib.7725]

Preach! I will say I am ok with a certain level of “ownership” if it is equal between the couple and out of love, commitment, spirit of oneness and not control or the feel of a threat. Not the crazy “you can’t talk to her” or “we do what I say because I’m in control” way. I mean, my husband is MY HUSBAND, I am HIS WIFE and we are a unit. And our relationship is to be honored and respected by others. I’m not worried about him acting some kind of wrong way but best you believe I’ll be all over some hooker who thinks she can disregard that ring on his finger. Because that is my right and visa versa. We’re not controlling or demeaning one another in day to day life with feeling possessive over each other because we are grown adults with our own respected agency. Some levels of relationship do predicate a bit of possessiveness...and that’s ok. I hope that makes sense.

[@loriannwhite8384]

Traci Bailey You lost me at, some hooker. Who did you marry your husband or some hooker?

[@seigeengine]

@Lori Ann White The husband. If someone insults your friend, do you defend them, or fuck off and let your friend deal with it alone? After all, don't you trust them to be able to handle themselves? Any time you associate people, you establish a level of "ownership." It's not "treating someone as not their own person" to not be protective of your associates. As Traci mentions, there's a difference between what's being described here and defense out of insecurity, lack of trust, and/or unhealthy controlling behaviour.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

I agree wholeheartedly! In fact I would feel unloved if my husband wasn't possessive to some extent and protective of me.

[@loriannwhite8384]

Whitney Dahlin if you need a husband to ‘protect’ you from words. You need the kind of help only professionals can provide.

[@seigeengine]

@Lori Ann White If you feel the need to attack others because they want to feel like someone cares about them, you might need that help yourself. Nobody likes people who take out their insecurities on other people, Lori.

[@mgnxcamille6850]

You're just fascinating! I don't even read fantasy, yet I stayed till the end just because you're too good at speaking !

[@michaelmancoke8840]

Could you do a video comparing the relationship of bridge four from Stormlight to the relationship of the wolf pack from Red Rising Trilogy? Think it would be a cool video because I think both of those show great development of friendships Also highly suggest the Red Rising audiobook as the narration is top notch

[@cussundriakneal9904]

"Just- JUSSSSSS-- *STAWPIT!!!"* Lol! You're completely right, and i feel, but holy heck, that was a MOOD! x,D

[@etino]

"NO! We're going to fight!" haha you're videos are entertaining

[@leeroyturner2001]

please do more of these 'Dear Authors' they're great for up and coming writers

[@yasspanda2559]

I often hang around these kinds of videos to get a free do's and dont's on writing well-fleshed characters. Thanks a bunch, Daniel! If I ever get started on my writing, I'd try to suck less at romance.

[@manapotion9105]

Your cat is so laid back. Asif your voice is soothing the very energy flowing through his brain...if that's even enough of an appropriate observation

[@lindsayhartje6678]

Yess!! This makes me love you even more! In the same vein, let's talk about the normalization of jealously and jealous behavior in Fantasy novels (and IRL too)! I'll DNF a book the second a character exhibits some sort of jealous behavior, like negging, or "fighting for the relationship." When will we start viewing jealousy for what it is? A entire box of red flags.

[@motherreaper7287]

Daniel I love the hell out of this, thank you!

[@amandadamatta_]

Yeah, as a young black Brazilian woman who enjoys fantasy I agree with you ( : and thought I know it won't come out any time soon, I'm looking forward to reading your book. I really appreciate the fact you are always speaking about those important themes in your channel. I also believe that when we, as the readers, start pointing out that we do care about diversity in fantasy books, the authors will be compelled to inckude it into their books. That's why I think it's important for us to bring awareness, so other people will start realising how important it actually is.

[@billyalarie929]

2:55 there's a song by Failure (covered by A Perfect Circle) that is this exact thing. it's literally called "The Nurse Who Loved Me"

[@Hard-R-Energy]

For the record, love at first sight is a real thing. The first time I saw my wife she was walking down the hallway in school, dropped a book from the stack she was carrying, bent over to pick it up, dropped two more while trying to pick up the first one, then dropped another while getting those two. I didn't even approach her. I just watched as one of her friends ran over to help, who then promptly asked her, "You have a backpack on your back, why don't you put some of these in there?" To which she said, "I can't. It's full of books." Just the serious and almost defeated tone in how she delivered that response burned her into my brain. I instantly thought, "This chick is my destiny." We started hanging out that day, were dating by the end of the week, and have now been married for 22 years. So, love at first sight in fiction can happen. It just has to not be done lazily, which, if we're being honest, is how all of your writing should be anyway. No shortcuts. My own personal experience aside, I don't want "modern world representation" in my fantasy story. It comes across like you're checking a box and immediately ruins the immersion. Especially if the story deals with countries with defined kingdoms and territories.

[@HomeschooledBlackGuy]

The point of relational ownership is an important one. However, I'd find it odd if it weren't present even in the most benevolent of characters. That's because even at our most elevated level we are flawed and in my opinion, the most interesting characters are one that is still flawed in spite of their framing within prose; like Kaladin. Human relationships will never be perfect and while I agree that this seems primitive and problematic I still prefer characters and their relationships to be reflective of what's real about people rather than what should or could be. I should say that mine is an argument about framing and your point about how these relationships are framed is spot on.

[@hibak8196]

I love your opinions here, I love the style and the editing and the sense of humor.. Great video! I don't believe you btw. You're definitely trying to get a date or something. Humans *can't* empathize with others just for the sake of empathy. Impossible.

[@tanzilarrafee3381]

This whole time I couldn't take my eyes off ur 🐈, so in my mind it was ur 🐈narrating the vdo with all ur accoutrements and gestures but with ur voice ... .... ... LOVED IT! U should really have the 🐈of in ur vdos more often, (s)he is a real 💎 Cheers!

[@jacobheartstone6397]

Thank you so much for this video, I could not have said it any better!!! I HATE the "love at first sight" and "friends having to become lovers" tropes!

[@littleloezie]

Great video! wish more people would talk about this and more authors listen to this. I also don't like the coupling of every single character. Ow, the main character has a best friend, well lets set him/her up with the best friend of the love interest because that's how this works right?! And no one is alone and happy. everyone needs to be settled or they are miserable.

[@RES574]

I really start to become irritated when I see a love triangle developing. It might have become my most hated trope.

[@sanjayplays5010]

Legit had me laughing out loud. One of your best videos hahaha

[@TheCrazyDcoolest]

I like romances that never conclude. The two are left without their happily ever after and have to either take up a greater responsibility or the SO dies.

[@derekzimmer7357]

I haven't heard you reference this series or make any content on it but have you read any of the Riyria series?

[@vogonpoet1169]

One of my favorite series of all time. I won't say it's a literary masterpiece, and there are certainly things to criticize, but man, it's such a fun read! Like reading a movie.

[@McFlingleson]

I like how there's a cat just quietly hanging out in the background through the whole video.

[@keegendzurko627]

The best way to subvert the first trope of love-Have it be a magic based mental manipulation, as in Arthurian legend there is a lot magic love relationships.

[@Wet-Milk]

misunderstandings certainly do suck a lot to read/watch. BUT i have seen this shit happen to so many different people in real life, its not even funny. So while it is frustrating like 99% of the time, its certainly based in reality. tho tbh i wouldnt mind having less of it in media

[@katieamarsh]

I loved everything about this video. I am not a big romance fan, but when I actually enjoy a romance, it's because it rings true. My first thought on a great book romsnce was in King's 11/22/63.

[@lanalytch]

Great video, thanks!

[@TheMightofDab]

*Major Mistborn spoilers* 1:45 I was so happy when the teased love triangle between Vin, Zane, and Eland (or Elend, i forget) turned into Vin killing Zane, rather than falling into the trope of trying to turn the bad boy good

[@malek0093]

Tbh the Elend Vin relationship felt out of place, cheesy, and downright cringy at times. The fact that it was pretty much insta love doesn't help either, and the whole character of Elend was just meh, biggest downside of the trilogy imo

[@Newfiecat]

Oh man, this also made me so happy. Especially since the reader could see how the "bad boy" was actually lying to Vin and using her.

[@gracejungmann8015]

I was so distracted by your cat in the background

[@yaboi6823]

I thought for the first couple books that nyneave and egwene were sometimes unnecessarily cruel to the boys.

[@kingjamesrick1]

I feel this video has two different themes. The first part is explaining how realism in writing is needed (I.e. falling in love at first sight is improbable and illogical) yet the second portion is explaining how realism in writing is a problem (I.e. less sexism than reality). This confuses me. Of course this is essentially your opinion and completely subjective, but I would ask when should the author be simulating reality and when should the author delve into fantasy? (wish fulfillment or other desired occurrences). From my take on people who disagree with the prevalence of race and gender focus in many stories, it might be a differently aligned desire for escapism. The current world is very vocal regarding racial and gender issues, many people might want to escape this in their fantasies. However, I agree romances in fantasy generally suck and are usually the parts I wish to skip. It might be because of a disconnect to realism, I do not care because the relationships are forced or unreal, but where should an author be real and where shouldn't they be? Take for example the joker from the Dark Knight. Many love this villain since he is completely surreal but not cartoonish and the dark gritty feel makes him more relatable. When should this be adopted? Is it all subjective? And if so, why do we care?

[@imygurl08]

This is an old comment but the difference between love at first sight and including racism is that the author is asking the readers to care about a romance. Romance takes up a lot of pages and we're obviously meant to care whether the relationship works out. We're supposed to feel sad when the protagonist is fighting with a love interest and keep turning the pages to see what happens. It is very difficult to give a fuck about a romance when you can't wrap your head around why they even care about one another in the first place. Including racism in a plot where it doesn't mean anything is just including racism. It doesn't make the story better. It doesn't keep me turning the pages to see what happens. It's just there. I just know that some races are treated like shit while it has no effect on the protagonist's adventure.

[@scarletleader5420]

I think the difference is that relationships are a real thing, and your fantasy world is not. Meaning, we KNOW how real relationship feels, and therefore it feels weird to see authors write unrealistic things like "love at first sight". However, magic doesn't exist in the real world, and so it's not cringey for not being realistic, because there isn't a reality of magic to compare it to. Your fantasy world is entirely created by you. It doesn't exist. You have the opportunity to create things from scratch, and so it's strange that is extremely rare to see interracial/same-sex relationships in fantasy books. I'm not saying that people shouldn't create worlds with racial tensions and homophobia (in fact, that would be interesting in terms of world building and also addressing real world problems) but if your world only has white/straight people with no real reason for it, it can feel (at least for me) a little creepy... Like you're reading about the world of a white supremacist's wet dream.

[@Excelsior1937]

It’s realism to the human experience for the sake of an emotionally fulfilling read we can all relate to vs realism to a specific time period that no one alive today can relate to and therefore really doesn’t need to be there

[@Yesica1993]

Catching up on older vids - You are SO ME on some of this stuff. I could not agree with you more on "love at first sight". Stupidest thing ever invented. I'm not a fan of romance in books anyway. I guess I've somehow gravitated toward books that don't have much (or any) romance in them. Come to think of it, maybe it's because I'm so sick of forced romance in TV / movies. At least with a book, you can find out quite a bit about what you're getting into before you choose to start.

[@fareedshayek2463]

What is your opinion of the love triangle in Oathbringer?

[@melaniewenig3270]

I was just asking myself the same question but haven't gotten to the end of the video yet. He doesn't say anything about it?

[@TheCamster4545]

I love wheel of time, but I don’t think he got relationships right at all. It may not directly be love at first sight, it’s very much sudden and out of nowhere in a lot of situations, such as Nyneave and Lan, who just suddenly decide after having maybe three scenes together with just the slightest amount of interaction together discover they are just so hot for each other, it always bothered me. Same with Elayne and Rand, I think they have one or two chapters in the first book together and then she is just head over heels for the rest of the series for him. I can excuse Rand’s thing a little via the wheel being a very real thing that makes people do things they wouldn’t, but it just felt like most relationships were like that. Mat and Tuon were good though, at least they were explicitly shown to be slowly building a relationship and spending time together.

[@calebmauer1751]

Yeah, a lot of those relationships just needed more buildup.

[@GeoKuromi]

The cat looking straight to the camera, is so cute

[@katoozie]

Nothing grinds my gears more than the miscommunication-leads-to-conflict trope. It's such a lazy plot point and just makes me mad and dislike the couple than actually feel sorry for them. And you're right, it often goes against the characters' personalities, so it just makes even less sense.

[@zechjudd3063]

Thank you for this.

[@monus782]

And this is why if I ever become an author I'll just avoid romance as much as I can, since I've noticed that in some stories people are far more concerned about who's going to be paired with who than the overall plot or the conflict! It drives me nuts, and if we go by diversity then one could argue single people need to be portrayed more often.

[@teddytho]

can you do a recommendation for novels with good romance?

[@mollof7893]

I like it when people put dark ideas into their stories and worlds, showing it's not all nice. Having bad, abuse relationships can be interesting to see, but it shouldn't be seen as good by the readers, however the characters could see it as ok because it's normal in their world.

[@AKatz17]

0:43 I'd like to briefly argue that point. Coincidentally, that was the point I saw your cat in the bottom right of the video. I love that cat. Now this might be an exception. Just saying, I saw it. I loved it. And now, on with the rest of the video.

[@abi.b.h.]

Daniel talking: Me looking at the kitten in the back: 😍🥰

[@SuperCandyGamer]

I don’t know if this was meant to be funny but I laughed so much throughout this video😂😂

[@SeptimusTSS]

Any recomendations on books with good romances? i know very few but Im always looking for new ones

[@phantasmalemperor8887]

The shadow of the apt series does romance well, it's quite sad as most fall apart due to the massive war going...and racial prejudices...and people going crazy.

[@SeptimusTSS]

@@phantasmalemperor8887 thanks but that doesnt sound like something I would enjoy in that case 😂

[@bookmarksbowsprits1183]

If you read YA Fantasy, one of my favorite romantic relationships is in the Daughter of the Lioness duology by Tamora Pierce. It is not the focus, but is a great facet of the story.

[@SeptimusTSS]

read it unfortunately. a bit too light on the romance, good read though. Her other series about Diane is better about that I would say :)

[@bookmarksbowsprits1183]

It's so hard to find the right level of quality romance.....

[@paperbackwriter80]

From one Mat Cauthon fan to another, you're welcome! Pips is so handsome! :-)

[@ademiranda2]

Nice kitty Daniel! Get him up close and introduce him/her to us.

[@Rashadmcka]

“Misunderstandings” in Romance drive me ducking insane! But I don’t mind Romance as a sub plot but please don’t make it the goal of a character. Also, once the couple are together, don’t change their personality! I’ve read books where the girl is bad ass and smart, but as soon as the couple gets together, she becomes a totally different character... like seriously, sure people act a bit different with their significant other, but their whole personality doesn’t change that much, this is a sign that the author may have only had wrote that character for the protagonist to fawn over and the other character to be a “trophy”.

[@LauraSarahsMusicFilter]

Hey could you do a list of high fantasy books you would recommend to girls? 10:25 The reason I don`t know most of the books you are talking about. Though I plan to read them. But in the mean time I still watch/listen to most of your videos. :-)) And do you know Throne Of Glass? I am always wondering that. Because it's not just for girls. And I really like the character development in the later books.

[@clementdenis4212]

What is a "book for girls" and why should it be any different from a "book for boys" ? Anyway if by book for girls you mean book with strong females characters I would at least list mistborn, LOTR (eowyn, galadriel...), and for young people/child Narnia or anything by Philip Pullman.

[@Skittles-dx3bt]

I agree with these. I hate love at first sight. Even as a kid I would point that out in Disney movies. lol The communication thing is annoying when it seems out of character and just a lazy excuse to prompt a conflict or plot point. If it is used as a character flaw and developed well, then it can be good. I like some love triangles done right. I hate the ones where the MC is taking his/her sweet time trying to choose and dragging the poor fools along the way. I think some people who may not understand LGBT and what it's like might be afraid of misrepresenting a community so they think it's safer to keep it shallow. I love your videos!

[@charmishing]

As for the whole withholding information and causing a misunderstanding thing, I can let it pass if I can understand the logic behind that decision. However, so often, I see characters withholding the information without proper reasoning. Nothing drives me crazier than characters acting out of character for no reason at all. I give slight leeway since miscommunication does happen in real life but it does need to be justified. If they’re acting out of fear or mistrust, I want to see those emotions and understand the decision, rather than a contrived device to make a plot work.

[@olgagerman9216]

Wow you deserve more followers. All great, especially the way you deliver your thoughts haha

[@reebaltherito388]

Can you make a video about Sylphrena and your opinions of her? I'd love to hear what you think of her.

[@edenmckinley3472]

I absolutely agree with the strong friendships thing. A friendship shouldn't be stagnant, and many friendships in fantasy are. And it's also pretty sad if your friendship with someone is based entirely on you saving them whenever they are in a life and death situation. I understand the dynamic of two brothers in arms, but a dynamic like that usually starts out with both characters being warriors and having trained and fought together. The dynamic I have seen in countless tv, books, and movies is "you're an idiot and you wouldn't be this close to death if you weren't, but I'm going to save you anyway because I care about you for some reason". It was also funny to hear you talk about interracial romance, because in my book the one romance I have is between a big black guy and a petite white girl. They are elves, so they don't have the same history or cultures, which changes their relationship dynamic if they were humans in our world with different colored skin, but the idea is the same. Romance is way overdone. A lot. But I enjoy a good, healthy romance, especially when the two characters are like best friends and they can sit and talk about nothing for four hours.

[@tanzilarrafee3381]

Can we please acknowledge the adorable fluff-ball in the down right corner

[@DoReMi123acb]

10:40-10:45 that cat is channelling me right now. Now go make a review of The Dagger and Coin.....LOL, I kid. Seriously, great vid, man. Most of the points you brought up are gripes I have with the fantasy genre as well. Especially the one about racial differences and discrimination being just brushed aside in favour of some lazy utopic aesthetic.

[@thenewkhan4781]

I don't mind the love triangle too - if it's done right. I mean when a character is claiming he/she (usually she) loves two others romantically at the same time and/or can't decide which one he/she should "choose" for longer than a chapter then I put the book down. It makes the character childish. But a love traingle where a character is just not fully aware of her/his feelings to two other characters is fine with me. My favourite romantic plot is "friends into lovers". Maybe because every good relationship I know in the real life has such beginnings, including mine.

[@maggyfrog]

what's your list for romance done right in fantasy?

[@heygus20]

👏👏👏 Yes. That is all.

[@michaelpalmieri7335]

Why was the KZbin symbol for this video a "still" frame from a Bugs Bunny cartoon?

[@lazarinth5782]

4:41 This was the thing that annoyed me most in Wise Man's Fear.

[@LuckyDragon289]

The relationship between Kvothe and D is so toxic. Both characters are kind of insufferable, to be honest.

[@mariapol17]

The sexism in fantasy is one of the biggest reasons why it's hard for me to read more books in that genre.More often than not the woman are poorly written or when they do something that it's out of the norm of their representation the backlash from the fan base is insane.I am not saying make the male characters inferior to them but I wish I could see better representation for women.

[@francesccampos1343]

Forced representation and diversity are the cancer of modern new authors, seeing everything through the political lense (although most of the times such stories are nothing more than ways of entertainment) is beyond pathetic. Most of fantasy settings take place in medieval times, and like it or not medieval times societies were deeply racist, xenophobe, classist and gender roles were almost set in stone. If you don't like that type of setting don't read it, but changing that setting and applying sXXI politics or modern morals will only harm the setting of your story. Why is it that in sci-fi or futuristic settings there's not much of an issue with inclusion or representation? because in those settings is easy to understand that the morals or behaviors of such societies are more similar to the ones we have.

[@mariapol17]

@@francesccampos1343 Excuse me but unless it describes a historic event you can take the liberty of making changes.Because in those times as well there were people that made the difference that changed the course of history that were women or people or color. A lot of fantasy is about magic or creatures since we know those never existed fantasy should not have them right?? Because it goes against of that time.Right???? Everyone is calling forced representation or woke anything that is not following the classic formula white male savior, damsel in distress and barely there people of color.Our books need to change for the better and not perpetuate racist stereotypes.

[@francesccampos1343]

@@mariapol17 Wrong nº1, you are putting politics and s.XXI morals into stories that don't match such ideals, it doesn't matter if it's fiction, coherence is an important point of any good story. Wrong nº2, magic and creatures in fantasy act most of the time as neutral creatures and systems that make the stories "special" otherwise that wouldn't be part of the fantasy genre. Specially in medieval times there were mythos generated due to the ignorance of the popular masses, that's why using magic and monsters fit in medieval settings. Wrong nº3, forced representation is when people DEMAND to the author that they include X gender or X race portrayed as important or good just for the sake of it, no matter the plot or the coherence of the story. That's just both racist and sexist because you show that you don't care about the plot or the core of the story but only about your s.XXI morals being portrayed in the story from someone else. Those are not YOUR books, they are the author's books, if you don't like them just write your own story or support someone who does what you like, but DEMANDING someone to write as you please is both egocentric and selfish. Stop telling authors how they must write, only absolutist and dictatorial regimes try to force culture to follow their believes.

[@evi6629]

There's been a lot of great fantasy by female authors coming out that treats female characters a lot better, and it's been good to see. I love my classic sausage fest fantasy books but even I can admit that how fantasy has treated women has been a blind spot for a good while. (Just gonna ignore the guy claiming that because fantasy is sometimes loosely inspired by medieval times that means you should have no creativity in worldbuilding whatsoever and just take a milder version of sexism of tge time, because you know damn well fantasy authors almost never show the true horor of misoginy in the middle ages, and put it in your books without thought. It's boring and unimaginative. I'm not sure how someone with such little creativity can call themselves a fantasy fan)

[@mariapol17]

@@evi6629 if you have any good recommendations pls tell me.Thank u

[@MrParkerman6]

4:18 You described Harry Potter and Ginny's Romance in The Movies 6-8. Thr movies basically just say they are gonna be together with no real Relationship progression and Ginny barely has any screen time throughout the Entire Harry Potter Movies series.

[@pauligrossinoz]

And the relationship with Cho was shown to develop on both sides over time, but then suddenly dropped like a hot potato, but with Ginny it was: Suddenly they were a couple, but we saw nothing of their feelings develop, unlike Cho, until the announcement of their status as a couple. It was really stupid.

[@dhruvbharija172]

Harry Hermione were only good in hp series

[@th84lok25]

Love at first sight is rare but real. We tend to think of love in one way but other cultures have different kinds of love. I have a friend, her aunt and uncle met on a vacation and it was love at first sight. They married a week after meeting and 40 years later they are still in love with one another.

[@cowsmoon8686]

Did anyone else forget to listen, and just watch the cat chilling most of the video?

[@hectordeleon4124]

Daniel, if you haven't read them already, you might want to read the Ryiria Revelations trilogy. (actually, listen on Audible - it's even more fun that way. Tim Gerard Reynolds is fantastic!!) The writing isn't perfect, but the relationship between Royce and Hadrian is what makes the series, and when Hadrian falls in love, it's slowly and naturally. It starts a bit slowly, but I think each book gets progressively better and better. REALLY good and memorable characters in this book, and a fun, (and sometimes funny) read with some very poignant moments, and a good payoff at the end. I'd be curious to know your opinion, so if you do read the series, would you reply and let me know what you think?

[@megravitt33]

I would love to see a video where you give examples of books with great romances!

[@eathalias9627]

I've read so many books that would have been great if not for the overly done romances, I wholeheartedly agree

[@alexforce9]

Ok, I watched it again and this time I have been listening. That last part about the sexism in the fantasy worlds coz they are based on "reality" made me think. What is fantasy world? Like do it have to be set in middle ages type of cultural development to be consider fantasy? Is it the tehnology aspect of the culture? Like if they ride horses all the time and there is no indoor toilets - then its a fantasy wolrd? And this is a big one - is cultural development based on the tehnological one? Are we prone to be more sexist if we shit outside and dont have cable tv? What is the basis of a culture? Religion obvs plays a big part of it, history, what else?

[@kcjones4169]

Here are some well developed romances and friendships in fantasy books if that is what you are looking for right now. 😂 Kushiel’s Dart series by Jacqueline Carey, YA series Cat’s eye chronicles, and for more popular series... Outlander and Game of Thrones. Let me know if you would like more.

[@bisexualyn1713]

See I wanna write a romance; I kind of have an idea of starting with a bad impression for both of them. Later in the story I want the guy to start developing feeling (which I am making a realistic reason why) first I want it to start understanding her from other people, & only wanting to at least get on good terms. Since girls tend to be more emotional, & hold on to feelings, or people, etc. I still want her to have a bad feeling towards him. She gets bullied by only a few people (because she has many friends as well which comes with enemies too). He tries to help however, she has a big problem with violence (Very non comfrontational). I haven't decided how I want that to be solved. (I'll figure that out for sure) Is this a good idea?

[@muhammadhashir6136]

Pips is just sitting back there, thinking how different cat relationships are and how love at first sight can happen with cats because they never blink and look away, it's just one continuous sight

[@hikethemike7349]

damn, I might know which book triggered this video :`D *looking weirdly at my Dark Tower shelf*

[@kylegesin7178]

I fully agree that in these world's interracial realitionships could, and absoultly should exist more. But I can see why in a lot of the world's, not all but a lot, that same sex realitionships don't or not often.ost of these fantasy world's are in a medeval setting, and with that often comes a much smaller population. And as such, much more pressure for people to have children. And with that pressure, anyone not filling his vital role, possibly by being in a same sex realtionship, will be looked down on to a degree, even in the most accepting kind of world. Though it would still be interesting to see this explored more. To have a story where someone deals with that pressure. But just my 2 cents.