Dear Evan Hansen - What's it About?

[@gracekelley2907]

Wait... Connor's parents.... Instead of giving their dead son's fund to their remaining child who is still alive and could use the money for her future... are giving it to his "best friend" that they only just now know about....

[@MusicalswithCheese]

I think they're just *THAT* well off that they already had something set aside for both. But that may be worse.

[@zoe_moth]

Tiny thing, but it was actually Zoe's idea to give the money to Evan. So, technically, they were helping their daughter surprise her boyfriend... Who tricked her into dating him. ;-;

[@erinfee5104]

As someone who has lost a brother, the idea that I would not only forgive an emotional parasite like Evan, but also THANK him for completely replacing my brother's memory with his own ego... Jesus Christ. This could have only worked as a dark, DARK comedy, but I suppose that wouldn't have been "marketable" enough.

[@JessRansdellSmith]

You say that but Heathers, Mean Girls, Jawbreaker, etc are cult classics.

[@magicman205]

@@JessRansdellSmith Those all have completely different (mainly comedic) tones to that of Dear Evan Hansen. Dear Evan Hansen fails so much because it has such a serious tone that you're expected to be emotionally affected by.

[@Needsmoreflash]

people are being ridiculous. This is just a story, not every story has to have a good guy or a life lesson. Just take it what it is and move on stop being a hater over nothing. I have a hard time watching the Heather's because it glorifies killing and makes it seem lkke its funny. I dont appreciate that but I still don't hate on the show and make controversial discussions about how it should be abolished from the face of the earth.

[@MsTinkerbelle87]

@@JessRansdellSmith they don’t take themselves seriously…they are meant to be fun movies.

[@RevanAlaire]

Watch the Robin Williams film, World's Greatest Dad for a much better take on the same premise.

[@melodramaticalz]

The reason why Good For You is my fav song in the musical is bc its literally just the characters calling Evan out for his actions (another reason the movie sucks bc they CUT THIS SONG OUT 🤬🤬)

[@Claire-li9gx]

In a horrible way, I am so glad this movie made people realize just how awful the musical was. I was super involved in high school theater when the musical came out and instantly hated it and got super bad vibes from the show. Whenever I brought up any concerns about it, I was immediately shut down so these responses feel kind of rewarding ngl

[@DemiSemme]

The moral of the story is watch Crazy Ex Girlfriend instead.

[@cursivelyric3694]

Yes!!

[@justateapot3847]

No

[@mmaullon]

I would prefer a version where instead of raising a memorial fund they had to gather the six infinity stones and go back to the past to prevent Connor from killing himself.

[@okamibattleblock1301]

I think what draws people in to the musicals is not really the story itself but it songs by them selves. Taken out of context the songs can be uplifting and meaningful to someone who is feeling alone. BUT MY GOD IF THE SONGS ARE TAKEN IN CONTEXT, then half of the song are just so disgusting and harmful

[@MusicalswithCheese]

The songs are so generic and meaningless that anyone can put their own meaning onto it!

[@okamibattleblock1301]

@@MusicalswithCheese exactly!

[@MadHattress]

tHIS!!!! If I Could Tell Her is a perfect example

[@AuraHero]

@@MusicalswithCheese It would be interesting to take those songs and create a new show from it. I'm sure someone could come up with something better.

[@s.j.l.8252]

You girls could probably just relax a bit. The story isn't guided by a moral compass, it exposes one of the million permutations of human conflict.

[@sir-ani8927]

The best thing in the DEH book -and now I think about it, the only good thing in it- is that they actually flesh out Connor's character. He DID have a friend named Miguel but he isolates himself from Miguel because he did that thing in romance novels where he kisses his only friend and assumes that Miguel hates him and that's part of why he committed suicide. He felt alone. He's suffered from what a lot of people interpret as BPD and really no one associates with him outside of Miguel and he never gets the help he ACTUALLY needed since he was like, 8. We get Actual Ghost Connor's perspective on some parts of the story but it's just more excusing Evan's actions. He even says that he'd be Evan's friend if he were still alive and I honestly don't know if that's from him knowing the struggled of mental health or just the writer trying to make everything seem okay or both. He didn't even get to talk to Miguel on the day he killed himself. Honestly, I think Miguel probably would've talked him out of it. I recommend borrowing it from a library because most of it is just a retelling of the musical and I'm sure you wouldn't want to waste actual money on the book.

[@tevadotzip]

my Dear Evan Hansen hot take is that it could've been a really good dark comedy but the premise was wasted on the faux inspirational product we ended up with. I can imagine an alternate telling where Evan (and maybe another character like Jared) end up fumbling through the social norms of a mourning family and community. take away the aspect of Evan's mental health, and the whole fundraiser plot so the characters can acknowledge what they're doing is wrong but keep digging themselves deeper until they have to resolve the issues they caused in people's personal relationships.

[@MusicalswithCheese]

If it weren’t marketed to kids, and stylized more it would’ve been very effective.

[@littlemissmatsuo39]

I wonder, why didn’t they hire you to write DEH’s plot?! That actually would have been a much better plot too! Alas, it can never be now… *gasp* SOMEONE CAN MAKE A FANFIC/AU WHERE THAT’S THE CASE!!!

[@Quackervoltz]

@@littlemissmatsuo39 On it. I'm taking the more drama route, but I'm gonna like......actually try to make it about mental health

[@seanian8986]

I have never heard a single song from the play and I always assumed it was about a gay kid who was assaulted and then the people who ignored him start pretending to be his friends

[@MichaelO2000]

“Connor’s ghost. Which you can interpret as Evan’s imagination” Not interpret. They do outright say it’s Evan’s imagination. Imaginary Connor says “Why are you standing here talking to yourself?”

[@MichaelO2000]

I think this changes things just a bit because it’s not literally Connor’s ghosts coming in and saying “Yeah I’m cool with what you’re doing” but rather the part of Evan’s mind that is trying to justify his actions.

[@tristanmayer5373]

Yeah I swear the people who hate this show didn't watch half of it. The entire second act in particular is telling us that Evan is self absorbed and that everything he did was only to fill his own emotional needs. But anything to hate on something popular

[@tristanmayer5373]

@Eponine Seccafico Once again I'm not sure you finished the show if you think he doesn't face consequences for his actions when the entire second act is him losing all of his friends and family because of his actions. We also see his mood and anger shift drastically soon after he stops taking his medicine. Evan is a selfish person and the entire show is directly about that. It's like saying Breaking Bad is a bad and problematic show because the main character does something you don't agree with.

[@vi9486]

@ecs-a-poet3evan had NO genuine friendships. Even the murphy family, because evan wasn’t genuine. He still lost his only feeling of normalcy he’d ever had his entire life. Going back to how you felt before seeing how good things can be is actually the worst punishment a human being can face. Now I don’t agree with zoe and the murphy family forgiving evan, but I do think that he doesn’t have to have a terrible ending. It can be open, about how evan will finally try to live a normal life and not earn that through deciet.

[@lynadaham967]

​@ecs-a-poet3I might be wrong for saying that, but realistically, some people never face the consequences of their actions, so why is that a bad thing for this show ? Also I don't get how this is a bad representation of mental illness, I mean I didn't watch DEH but I dont see how it's bad representation. This guy is an asshole but that's just how it is, not everyone who has a mental illness is a good person...

[@Dhdjdskdk]

This show gives me Sierra burgess energy

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Someone finally put it into words!

[@jennywc]

I’d kinda like to see Connor’s ghost interact with Heather Chandler’s ghost from Heathers. Wait a sec! That should be a crossover!

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Yessss!!! I love this idea!

[@allinfidelsmustdie3922]

80’s mean girl meets edgy teenager from the late 2010’s. I could see them having things to talk about since they’re both insecure rich kids but any friendship between them would probably turn pretty toxic considering Connor’s mental instability and Heather C’s manipulative tendencies.

[@phylasvell]

"its about a human monster" yeah pretty much sums up why i couldn't get into DEH.

[@MusicalswithCheese]

“Dear Human Monster we’ve been way too out of touch...”

[@Rori_Does_Arts]

I personally enjoy this show for a few reasons: 1. Because of its absolutely amazing score 2. Because of its honest discussions of serious and difficult topics 3. Because the characters aren't good people. To elaborate, they're human. Everyone first goes into the show thinking that Evan is just a struggling kid and he couldn't do anything wrong because he's the main character, but this perspective is quickly switched. Something that I think we often forget when watching the show during Act Two or later on is that this started as a misunderstanding. Cynthia and Larry found the letter that Evan wrote in Conner's pocket and assumed that he wrote it, and Evan, due to his social anxiety, was unable to properly communicate the mishap; so he played along. Eventually, he got so wrapped up in his own lies, that he felt that if he were to stop now, everyone would hate him; and at that point they should. To put it simply; Evan becomes selfish. At first, he does it to avoid conflict, then to help the Murphy's, and then it turns into him benefitting himself, and he knows it. He is just too scared to actually admit it. None of his issues excuse him from his actions. That's why in "Words Fail" he acknowledges this. What this musical discusses is something important; morality. Evan is a bad person, but the point is he became better. At the end of the musical, we see Evan in a much healthier state than before, after about a year or so of healing so to speak. He looks at one of the positive effects of his lies. There are positive effects because not everything is black and white. What Evan did was wrong, yes, but he created something good through it. A way for seemingly a "nobody" to be remembered, and hope for a family who had been breaking even before their son's death. One part that everyone forgets is in the final scene when Evan is talking to Zoe about the orchard, and Zoe states that her family have gotten a significant amount better than they were before and that they go to the orchard almost every day. Evan helped the Murphy's heal. All of this to say; Dear Evan Hansen is an important musical. You don't have to like it, but at least try to understand its attempt at discussing the morality of a seventeen year old who stumbled into a situation that he got overly involved in. And I am not saying this musical is perfect, in fact it is FAR from that (Zoe should NOT have forgiven Evan), but it doesn't sugarcoat its themes whatsoever. I understand that it's not everyone's thing, and I'm not undermining anyone else's thoughts either, just stating my own interpretation. Have a lovely day :)

[@liltwiggy49]

perfectly said.

[@Rori_Does_Arts]

@liltwiggy49 Thank you very much!

[@nerdoftheatre]

What I don't get is that.... Couldn't Evan have just written a letter on his phone and printed it later??? You could do that with like, Google docs. I have social anxiety. I struggled a lot more in HS compared to now. Imagining me printing off a very personal note to myself on the school computer would literally make me so anxious. It's honestly such a weird way to start the show off. It could've been done in so many different ways. I used to like the show because, hey, it was a character with social anxiety, like me. But I'm looking back at it now and thinking that Evan blames everything on his social anxiety. I absolutely despise this show now.

[@afriend3226]

Agreed. I would never print it out in the first place. If I bothered to even write it, I'd most likely delete it right after.

[@noahhutchins5164]

It's the fact that Evan goes from 0 to 100 that gets me. Like, okay, I can see him not knowing how to handle the situation and saying they had just become friends for like a week. It's still bad but better. However, this man immediately goes to writing a full stack of emails describing them intimate friendship and becomes a big part of the family. It's just kind if creepy and not at all excusable

[@apizzathatgiantforthesimpl5191]

As someone who personally really likes the show, I can definitely understand the hatred for it. I think a huge part of it (like you said) is the horrible marketing. I personally see it as a story about a mentally ill person who takes advantage of someone's pain to gain notoriety and a relationship (which is meant to be seen as a horrible thing in the text) but who eventually learns to not hate themselves and that the lies he exploits will not bring him love or inner peace or actually make anything better for anyone. Evan believes the only way he can be loved (and thus the only way he can love himself) is through the Connor Project. Hence all the stuff with Evan's perception of Connor (or "Connor's ghost"). Evan's problem isn't just his anxiety. His problem is that he hates himself. He sees himself as inherently worthless. He's so desperate to be liked that he creates an entire relationship with Connor that he starts to even believe himself because he wants it so badly (which is conveyed in "For Forever"). Yes, his actions are selfish and exploitative. That's the point (at least for me). He has to stop learning to live his life through other people and focus on himself before anything gets better for him.

[@toxicsugarart2103]

I completely agree.

[@shadowgirl765]

Yes. This.

[@ian_r1272]

Agreed

[@ian_r1272]

Just listen to the opening of "For Forever" you can already tell how much of a terror this will be....(if you know the context)

[@peruperu-jj8zs]

Did I miss the part where he learns his lesson…? Did they cut it out of the movie?

[@CinemageddonReviews]

I’m gonna be super honest: I’m baffled that people are confused about the plot, yet there are still many who claim they know but still think there’s nothing wrong with it. I knew nothing about the musical other than there was a kid who had a cast who tells a lie that gets huge and there’s music and it won several Tony’s. It wasn’t till I watched a proshot because I’m in Puerto Rico and have no money -_- that I watched it in it’s entirety singing along to some of the songs I liked... and then was left baffled and bewildered. I wasn’t so much confused, more so I was just horrified and concerned that this was considered appropriate for the subject matter it bastardized. I wrote an entire essay on it trying to make sense of it, and even to this day, I can’t believe there are people that try to defend this as a “black comedy” even tho it clearly isn’t and was not intended to be.

[@MichaelO2000]

There are very clear black comedy elements in it. A lot of the scenes with Jared are there to commentate on how fucked up the situation is. And there’s a scene that mentions how people are selling merchandise of the kid who commuted suicide. But the show really isn’t marketed that way. It’s marketed as “Teen boy finds his place in the world” and the show’s identity gets really twisted. Which I think results in a lot of the discourse surrounding it.

[@baldmitzvah]

i have a pretty strong emotional/nostalgic connection to the show so i’m not as critical of it as i would normally be. that being said, i agree with most of your (extremely valid) criticisms lol.

[@MusicalswithCheese]

That's fair and I have a ton of those too!

[@titan5695]

Every reason they said for why this musical is bad is why it is my favorite ever. Evan feels he is in a position where he can, not only put himself out there, but also mend this broken family, but he is so socially awkward and makes things up to make the other family feel better, but it gets wildly out of control. All Evan wanted from the start of the musical was just to have friends

[@vi9486]

Exactly my opinion too. What they see as plot holes is literally Evan just being himself and trying to navigate finally being SEEN by someone as well as the guilt of the hole of lies he’s dug himself into. In my opinion it’s absolutely genius.

[@robinchirps1775]

I just cannot stand people acting like DEH was the first musical ever to talk about mental illness and suicide. Like to You, maybe, but it’s a theme that’s been present since like…forever, in ANY media. and done so much better in other media too

[@agjul]

Exactly! Next to Normal comes to mind for me, and it definitely predates DEH lol. imo it handles mental illness and its effects on both the person with the illness and their families really well

[@seanian8986]

THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP WORLD'S GREATEST DAD. I don't often call things blatant ripoffs, but...

[@litlblkhouse]

Technically, there is a better version of this show that could have been told from the perspective of the real main characters - the Murphys. It's a book called Mockingbird about an autistic girl who is unsure of how to grieve her dead brother. It also features a lot of callbacks to To Kill A Mockingbird. Honestly, that could have made a better musical than this.

[@Aster_Risk]

Thank you for bringing up World's Greatest Dad! That's all I could think of, and I've heard no one else mention it in their videos about the show/movie. It does this sort of premise in a much better way.

[@stephent.1456]

Evan is truly a morally reprehensible character

[@SLOTHSRIDEUNICORNS]

*HE'S A SOCIOPATH!*

[@alondraperez-ramirez8363]

I really wish the DEH song Requiem belonged to another musical because in another well written play it would be a great take on family grief towards a now dead abusive family member. Another musical could have given the mom's role to the Golden child whom an abuser favors; the father's lyrics to an abused spouse/battered wife and Zoe's to the supposed problem kid.

[@dipannitasarah5521]

Lol I saw the great comet snub and read the premise of Dear Evan Hansen and was like byeeeee but this is actually so much worse? Bruh 💀

[@MusicalswithCheese]

The Great Snubbing of 2016! I’m still salty too!

[@Xiassen]

In terms of people thinking it's a gay movie, until the commercials started rolling I thought it was a sequel to Love, Simon.

[@drewa7765]

So the premise of this show and movie actually really weirds me out. I understand wanting a sympathetic villain, but having a kid lie and take advantage of a suicide victim's family is disturbing af.

[@peblezQ]

I thought this show was about some kid named Evan Hansen finding secret Love letters written to him from like his bully or something. I was so SO So very wrong.

[@jlynn2724]

One of the dumbest plot devices is that Connor's parents are totally just like "oh we've never met you and Connor never mentioned you but you're BFFs, yeah sure." I'm just saying, I have teenagers, and my kids' friends walk right in without knocking and help themselves to the contents of my fridge 😂😂

[@OpusDelRey]

I hate this show so much. I hate Pasek and Paul. Their portrayal of mental health is terrible. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, MDD, PD, Depression, and Anxiety I was constantly told by multiple people to see this show but I didn’t want to. I remember listening to this and thought it was garbage. I then saw the show a few years ago and I was so angry how the show try to make Evan as a good guy when he is a terrible person. I ended up leaving the theater during the finale of Act One. The second time I saw this I watched it all the way and hated it even more, the fact how the ending shows he’s never gotten anything taken from him. It’s a nightmare that this show is being called as a good representation which is terrible. You have so many great shows like Preludes, Next to Normal, Light in the Piazza, A Strange Loop that talk about mental health and issues a million times better. I really hope that people (non musical/non deh fans) hate this show as the most problematic and disgusting show. My worry is people will enjoy it only because “ooo Ben Platt, oo its the same guys who made greatest showman”

[@OpusDelRey]

And yes I’m still angry for Great Comet that Tony was rigged and total bullshit

[@julietaohjulieta3742]

Good to know I was not the only one who hated the show before the movie.

[@seanian8986]

There's a horrendous Netflix show called The Politician that stars Ben Platt and is eerily similar to DEH

[@realpunkfruit]

i always thought musicals were stupid af but i actually kinda liked this one lmao

[@jennshine8777]

I really liked the trailer and the music of course. I have never seen Dear Evan Hansen but heard about it on tumblr and how popular it was. I looked up analaysis on the musical and came across your channel! I’m so glad I watched, I’m not gonna spend my money on this movie. Maybe listen to the music from time to time. But I really enjoyed your commentary and explaining the plot!! Y’all are lovely

[@alexrcastaneda]

You got the first part wrong. He had to print the letter that morning because his mom arranged a surprise appointment with his psychologist. He doesn't carry them around, it was also the fist day of school.

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Still strange a therapist would be persnickety about it being *printed*. But the therapist is never shown, nor are they given a presence at all (did they know what Evan was doing, could they step in?) which is a whole different problem altogether. It’s just a narrative tool and kind of weird.

[@alexrcastaneda]

@@MusicalswithCheese and writing those letters just wasn’t part of it. Dr. Sherman sensed that I had been skipping my assignments. Now he’s asking to see my letters again,(...)

[@biedronkagirl]

the first time i watched the movie was right after getting out of the ER for a mental health emergency. this film was pretty triggering and the way they depicted connor taking his own life actually made me see s*icide as a better alternative which tells me that this is not a good piece of media for people with mental health problems

[@Maria_Efe]

This plot is so random and cringe worthy. It feels like a twisted version of The Perks of Being a Wallflower, except with the morality all wrong. The thing that makes me most angry is that we never really get to find out anything about the real Connor or why he committed suicide.

[@bobbywise2313]

Good point on Connor. I guess the writers didn't consider that important or in the editing that part of the story was removed.

[@littlemissmatsuo39]

Exactly. His suicide comes right the fuck out of nowhere, and it is never hinted beforehand that he *is* or *might be* suicidal, the only thing we’re given about Connor is that he’s an asshole.

[@toxicsugarart2103]

I think they made Connor kind of unknown because they wanted to get across the point that Evan was overshadowing who he really was with his own stories. We’re kind of with Evan and in his head the whole time, and since he didn’t actually know Connor, neither do we.

[@littlemissmatsuo39]

@@toxicsugarart2103 Which makes the book a complete bullshit retcon of what Connor’s *supposed* to be in story. (Also it’s my belief that if you need a companion book to your musical now movie to add depth to your character, then you're not doing a great job at writing a character, let alone writing an *ACTUALLY* good story centred around mental health.)

[@Nick-cv5rm]

The thing with this play is that I don’t think it’s a bad concept or idea at first, however the way they pulled it off is super problematic. If the play was just better written I don’t think this play would be as problematic and i think it could’ve been amazing if you tweek the story, like the comparison to Worlds Greatest Dad. But the way they wrote it makes it seem insulting at points and contradicting themselves

[@bonzupippinpaddleoxacoppil484]

This show has Ben Platt and that’s it.

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Ben Platt snots - The Musical

[@theassortedhobbyist]

My issues with Dear Evan Hansen are mostly in the fact that the story is just too predictable for me to keep my interest and when that happens, I try to become invested with the characters. Evan receives no comeuppance for anything he does in the show other than some yelling, Jared is a hypocritical asshole, there isn’t enough said or told about Connor for me to truly latch on to, and the overall disregard of Connor’s death and it’s affect on the Murphy family in favor of Evan’s story left a bad taste in my mouth. Not to mention that there are plot elements and story ideas sprinkled in the narrative that I felt would make a much more interesting and more engaging story than the typical web of lies troupe.

[@juliahart8593]

As someone who's written books about high schoolers WHILE still in high school (and being mentally ill while still in high school, and having many, many friends who were mentally ill while still in high school), I did...not like either the musical or the movie of Evan Hansen. While mental health issues are, indeed, prevalent to no end among teenagers, they're interpreted in the teenage world-just as it was in the adult world-as something private. (Meant for mostly Connor, but Evan as well.) Not necessarily stigmatized, and something teenagers can and do have, AND something that can reveal worrying symptoms/be detected by family and friends, but still...private. Bringing something of this frank of a topic to such a light not only turns a private topic into something that was brought WAY too far into the forestage (pardon the pun), but was portrayed in such a way that those who were/are mentally ill seem like that's all there is to them. Are there teens who act like that? Yes. Does the average teenager necessarily like, want to hang out with, or want to hear about the teen who acts like that? Let alone teenagers who utilize mental illness to commit atrocious acts, especially involving a recent suicide? *And, most importantly, it doesn't normalize mental illness so much as it does make it prevalent enough to now be mocked. Which is NOT what you want if and when you're suffering from a mental illness.* Hell. No. Not to mention it can create wholly unhealthy boundaries in personal relationships. I know some may be reading this and think this was the original intent, but if so, it may be relatable to certain teens, but certainly not your average one. And certainly not to me. Also, the decision to approach Connor's death as a FUCKING. PLOT. DEVICE. is absolutely horrific. Never would I ever consider doing this if I would continue to write about teenagers. For all the reasons above, they took a death by suicide and basically (metaphorically) flung Connor's corpse back and forth at their leisure. A more realistic portrait would be a 17-year-old named Evan Hansen who has a good friend, a crush, is now snagged into a suicide scandal, and *oh yeah he has social anxiety,* not a 17-year old kid named Evan Hansen who has social anxiety, and *oh yeah he has a good friend-* you know what I mean. Music is great tho 👌

[@leewitten4758]

This was never my favorite musical, but I was intrigued. I wasn't too bothered by Evan's audacity, (it is theater, the circumstances are supposed to be a little far out), I saw it as a tragedy of errors, that fell in line with his character flaw. I also liked how this boy who literaly FORGES a friendship with a ghost to decieve a greiving family, was more likeable than most of the other characters. But there are better musicals. The unpopular kid foregoing ethics to win love was done better in Be More Chill (don't @ me). The borderline psycopath exploiting death in a world of awful people was done MUCH better in Chicago. And any number of Sondheim shows convey pain, love, social issues, and raw human emotion way better than most musicals, let alone this. Side note, all the adults who play actual adults are the best actors in the show. Rachel Bay Jones deserved that Tony.

[@Quackervoltz]

Be More Chill is my favorite musical. It's so good

[@TM-qt2ze]

your videos are gold

[@MusicalswithCheese]

*YOU* are gold!

[@castlegarden2999]

I don't HATE Dear Evan Hansen, I don't LOVE it either. I like it just fine, and that's saying a lot for a Pasek and Paul musical. What I do know for certain is that Great Comet was fucking robbed. In broad daylight. And no one said anything.

[@ELeeHamm]

Honestly, I never gave this musical much thought. Then I saw all the responses to the movie and finally decided to look it up. To say that I was horrified is a huge understatement. Like, what the actual fuck? How is a story about some mentally ill kid going along with a misunderstanding and telling lie after lie to people who are already struggling considered inspirational? Why do they try to make his creepy new relationship seem cute when it’s built on all those lies? And why the fuck do they all just forgive him in the end? I have no idea why this show became so popular. As a mentally ill and neurodiverse person myself, this whole thing makes me both nauseous and even more tired of how we’re portrayed in popular culture.

[@HeartThrobThePony]

DEH was one of the first musicals I watched and on my first watch I didn’t realize the parts that bugged me but I knew it was there. The more I really thought about it the more it made me uncomfortable.

[@juliasings6131]

Disclaimer: I do like this show Idk if that's a necessary disclaimer but I do want to mention it lol But I do want to say the reason he prints it off. He has to bring the letter to his therapist appointment that he has after school, which is why he has to print it off

[@SLOTHSRIDEUNICORNS]

Dear Evan Hansen is so cringe.

[@MrAspiringactor]

17:43-18:11 My thoughts on The Greatest Showman

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Same, same.😉

[@MrAspiringactor]

@@MusicalswithCheese You ever think of doing it for the podcast?

[@MusicalswithCheese]

@@MrAspiringactor *Casual Whistle* www.musicalswithcheese.com/podcast/episode/23600c72/129-the-greatest-showman

[@MrAspiringactor]

@@MusicalswithCheese Huh that one completely bypassed me. Sorry about that

[@OtisLePoOtis]

As a fan of this musical i agree lol

[@MusicalswithCheese]

That's been my favorite response so far!

[@OtisLePoOtis]

@@MusicalswithCheese i’ve explained to my friends that if you removed the songs, DEH would be one of the grossest viewing experiences ever. They don’t agree with me.

[@evanhansen5434]

I'm also a fan of the musical and I agree with the video, lol. 😄

[@littlemissmatsuo39]

I hate the show, but it actually makes me smile to see someone who likes it, but understands that it’s not flawless or the 8th wonder of the universe that everyone else claims it to be. You have just earned my respect ❤️

[@BattlerUshiromiya9999]

Thank you guys so much for doing a summary of the plot. I for the life of me, could not remember if Evan ever had any backlash or dealt with the consequences of his actions and I did not want to sit through this trash again. … Turns out my memory works fine and I never fever dreamed it out!!~ The boy never had to deal with any consequences. Why is this the character we follow in this story again?

[@TheTrueTurtlegirl]

I will politely disagree with the text on the thumbnail of the video, because I don't think the show is harmful in and of itself (I'm not talking about the movie, because it was just straight up not good) Everyone can agree that Evan was pretty much the antagonist of his own musical. He has a penchant for lying, even in small ways to the people he cares about (for example, he initially lies to Larry about his dad before "To Break in a Glove"). His lies get too big for him to cover for, it spirals out of control, and he hurts his mother and the closest people he had to actual friends before he became popular. He did so, initially because he felt bad for the Murphy's but his perpetuation of these lies were due to him finding a "family" that he longed to have, and not wanting to let go of it and face his reality. Evan is a character that we can sympathize with, and knowing *why* he does all of these things, but the show doesn't excuse them either. While it is true that Evan is spared from the world knowing that he had fabricated "Connor's" letters, he still loses in the end. While he reconciles with his mom, the relationship with the "family" he had found in the Murphys was essentially dissolved once he admitted that he had lied. His lies destroyed the Connor project, (which Alana gave up on when she put the pieces together) and his strained friendship with Jared doesn't make any reappearance after "Good for You", which to me suggests that they aren't on speaking terms afterwards. I've already written way too much, so my point is that the story DOES NOT encourage you to follow in Evan's footsteps. There were important things to be said in knowing that you aren't alone, but it also makes it clear that Evan's mountain of lies was bad for him and everyone else in his life. Evan Hansen isn't supposed to be a "good" person for audiences to aspire to be, but an extremely flawed, frighteningly human character that ended up causing more grief than he set out to mend in his quest to take hold of "what [he] always wanted".

[@alexanderhamilton3057]

this pos proplematic show gets praise and tonys yet the Great Comet a groundbreaking show gets nothing and forced to close wtf!!!

[@MusicalswithCheese]

People don’t like the strange and new. Great comet will live much longer than this show.

[@yveltalpoderoso1303]

I like the musical, because it acknowledge what a terrible thing Evan did , but the story works cause it makes sense why Evan would do something that awful , we see how his life was and that his intentions where not bad at first , he wanted to make the family happy and enjoy some acceptance , but as the story progresses things become worse What I like about the musical is that it acknowledge how mess up the thing he did was

[@peruperu-jj8zs]

I guess they are slightly self aware. But Still there are zero consequence to his terrible action. People even thank him for them.😰

[@polarbearbianca]

As someone who's lost their brother to cancer, I can clearly say that this movie is disgusting. Also, the premise of giving the random boy who claims to be the best friend of their dead son is so dumb. If you've ever experienced the death of a loved one, you'll know how much it fucking costs to bury a loved one.

[@Some_1Else]

This show is in my area at the end of next month. $75. I thought about going to it. I couldn't understand the summary of it, and something about it didn't feel right. I'm glad I watched this video. It's disgusting to portray a character with social anxiety as a deceitful, manipulative individual. What does that impart to the audience? Don't the socially awkward have enough misconceptions to get through as they fight to become comfortable in their own skin? Thanks for making this.

[@ryanb4940]

Still watching video (just started it) but I firmly believe people hear “Dear Evan Hansen” and automatically think “Love, Simon”... two different titles but both titles are common letter writing beginnings and endings. Dear so and so... love, so and so. People know “love, Simon” is a gay movie. Both came out within two years of eachother and most people don’t follow Broadway shows but may have heard about it after the hype of built up around the time “Love, Simon” came out. Most people don’t pay attention to titles but may recall both titles tying in to letter writing.... Which in the mine of the average person combined both titles and since it’s a Broadway show it’s automatically gay to a lot of people. That’s my theory anyways. I hate the musical btw lol. Love your vids tho! ❤️

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Thank you! I can’t agree more!

[@ponygon123113]

It’s funny how these kinds of shows continue to get picked for movies and big projects while POC creators CONTINUE to have to prove themselves/do more work just to get a seat at the table? Just once I’d like to see them pick a musical that doesn’t have predominately white cast for no reason/preach “don’t kill urself” in no uncertain terms the whole musical. Just ostracize the mental health community even more why don’t you? (Loved the video yall! Much love from San Antonio!!)

[@Adrian_M]

What are you talking about? They changed Jared's race for no reason and turned him into an Indian. 😂😂😂

[@Gnostic72]

Can’t EVAN HANSEN just write himself a LETTER as part of his therapy in HIS SMART PHONE, & leave it there & NOT PRINT. That way he still gets do what he needs as an exercise for his social anxiety and STILL KEEP HIS PRIVACY. There!

[@ashy_inking1476]

Okay *inhales* I have a lot to say because I think you guys have brought up some good points. I'm not sure if you guys are going to read this though **DISCLAIMER: I have only read the novel and listened to the entire sound track however have never seen the full musical** In the beginning of the video, you mention it feels like what's driving the narrative of Evan bumping into Connor may be a bit contrived with him going to the printer and printing out his letters which you called a 'boomer tactic'. Which I get but these letters were for his therapy and his therapist could've assigned him to do print them out because maybe probably preferred typing more and printed it out maybe so the therapist could have a physical folder to keep all that information. It's a simple fix, just portray that in the beginning so I really don't think it's a bit deal ultimately I do agree that Evan doing this just for the sake of being forced into it didn't give a satisfying narrative since I felt like the story would benefit more off of doing it for less superficial reasons considering how much of a shift this musical makes just to drive the narrative/story which ultimately feels forced. They lie about Connor and alter his personality in an extremist way and I feel like it should've made it so that he tries to actually help the family at first. However the shift should be more gradual of him writing the letters and how extreme the extent would be. I wish that Evan wanting Zoe would've been a side aspect and instead of him wanting to date her immediately she could've described what she's been through with Connor which would also provide some information he could've written about while not fully giving away the truth. Like, yes Evan did want to be Zoe but imagine that after that incident he felt too guilty to be with her unless he continuously starting getting more power over the situation. Evan could've been doing something with good intent initially however once he got further in and even Connor as an angel/dead guy or memory or whatever you'd like to call it would criticize him more and more. This is optional and it could've led the film to feel more bloated if not indicated correctly but maybe since Connor's true legacy was dying from Evan lying about him it could've showcased him showing up less and less as an angel to indicate something more metaphorical. I feel like he should've started becoming more and more manipulative as the Connor Project campaign starting getting more and more popular and he starting spewing more, this time, harmful lies about Connor I also find it contrived that the family still thinks he likes that old tree place Evan lied about them visiting just awhile ago/when he last saw him but it's been taking down/restricted. Wasn't it stated it was removed much later? And how is this a good portrayal of Evan having some saving grace in this film? We didn't know that Connor wanted this or if he still liked that. How did Evan know Connor wanted something like that in the first place? He's falsely inspired so many people... I feel like the musical let him off WAY too easily and he should've I think they also could've portrayed Connor's struggles a little through Zoe so he wasn't a generic mean kid..., although I do like Zoe as a character alone and her and Heidi are probably my favourites I wish Zoe could've elaborated about more of her dynamic with Connor... even if she's supposed to not know a ton about him I think it's an interesting detail that Connor had financially stable, caring parents however was mentally ill himself. A common misconception with a lot of mentally ill individuals is that they usually have to have some sort of traumatic parental upbringing so I feel like they could've possibly touched on that... In the novel it's confirmed that Connor did deal with self harm, weed, and struggles with his sexuality (he tells us he shows attraction to both females and males) and he even has a boyfriend in it (named Miguel), I'm not sure how you could bring this up in the musical but some implications of it would be nice to make him less one-note... perhaps his primary struggle was getting absorbed in a poor friend group who offered him drugs or having to hide his bisexuality I do think in concept, Evan could be a good character however it's over shadowed by incoherent writing, confusing morals/morality, and confusing motives I feel like if they wanted to make Evan as flawed as my interpretation or even in general if they just kept him the same I think he should've gotten more legal punishment, even despite him being a minor. He should've been heavily involved in counselors wanting to hold him accountable, police knowing, etc. It felt like they overall justified his character too much. I thought Evan by the end admitting him breaking his arm was an attempt to end his own life life but it could've been portrayed better... I felt that was a smart twist in CONCEPT. Also Alana was done a bit dirty Although I never saw the musical, I do like a lot of the plot points **conceptually** (execution is not the same) ... I did really enjoy the novel and based off what I heard, think it was a much better portrayal and I could tell that the person writing it might've felt guilty about Evan not getting as much punishment as he deserved but I honestly thought it portrayed the story better. Angel Connor/memory dead connor was just really stupid. It's flawed but does have some heart, and even though I sound harsh I do really enjoy it and the impact it had on me... even despite it having a lot of flaws and I WAS obsessed with it for a good while (the book infuriates me much less) Feel free to critique my points EDIT: spelling errors

[@fiorefiore9910]

I listened to For Forever last year without knowing the story of the show. All i knew was that it involved a teenager taking his life and the people around him grieving. I instantly loved the song because I thought that it was simply about a kid missing his friend. Now that I've heard it in the context of the show i absolutely hate it...

[@Quackervoltz]

Heidi is honestly the only good character in this entire shitshow aside from Zoey. The whole play should've been about her

[@Quackervoltz]

The sad thing is that this is still a better musical than Jagged Little Pill

[@wickedpie77]

words cannot describe how much i dislike this musical ty

[@MusicalswithCheese]

It’s so bad right?!

[@thehumanconnectionproject8992]

would you say that words...fail?

[@wickedpie77]

@@thehumanconnectionproject8992 say that again and ill give u ur own cast to write CONNOR on

[@brandonburrell8517]

I absolutely loved the movie. I saw it twice. I hope to see it again. I agree that it's disturbing. That's one of my favourite things about it.

[@luluthespec8724]

I never actually knew the plot of the play/movie. I only listened to the music. lol I thought "you will be found" was at the end of the play.

[@jeffreywillstewart]

I agree Worlds Greatest Dad was better, directed by Bobcat Goodthwait. ( it had a great soundtrack too) . DEH is a horrible premise that doesn't work if Evan is straight. He should just join a club. ( theater, chess, "GLEE") . It's not hard to get someone to sign a cast! I think a lot of the momentum of DUH. is the influence of Ben Platt' Uber successful dad ( who produced all those LIVE TV musicals and La La Land ) who is involved in the film. Plus there's no dancing at all ! Just staging just like the second season of "Smash".

[@jadeyshade303]

I have social anxiety disorder. While I can connect with the musical because I can relate my internal issues and thoughts regarding my disorder with Evan’s actions and reasonings, it doesn’t not convey that understanding and emotional reasoning to the viewer, especially those who do not have such severe social anxiety. I could connect with the songs very well, but the musical felt off and disconnected to the mental illness topic at hand

[@leadingblind1629]

All right... Have you covered Be More Chill or Next to Normal yet?

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Yes! We have podcast episodes on both of them.

[@leadingblind1629]

@@MusicalswithCheese thank you. I'll check them out

[@ultimatewolfexists2378]

The book is better, I don’t think the musical is not quite as bad as people have been saying, the film is absolutely awful though. I like the music in the show, and I think Evan is absolutely despicable by the end of the show, but the book makes him and Connor more realistic and interesting.

[@jenrojo6504]

Wow, that description is rough. I saw the OBC (2017 Ben Platt w regular hair) and he made the show worth watching cause he acted and sang the snot out of it. I still listen to the cast recording, but never make it to act 2. Evan is making all these bad decisions and I didn't really care what happened to him. Your comments did wake up my apathy though, cause he did the Murphy family so, so wrong. Now we have BP 4 years later and movie casting with big Hollywood names (still smarting over casting in The Prom). This cannot end well. He is too old (and creepy CGI anti aging?). The story is too problematic. Ben Platt's Dad had the connections to get it produced. The trailer totally lacks even the little bit of levity that was onstage... so it looks like it takes itself VERY SERIOUS. The best thing about the show is many young people did connect to it and found some comfort?

[@captainsarcasm1567]

I remember my friends saying this was really good back in middle school when it was popular, but I just didn't want to get into it. Something about the plot just turned me off. That and I wasn't really into musicals.

[@olicityfan1150]

The way social anxity is represented in this is terrible. My mother has it but she never started making lies to make herself feel better. She slowly has been way more social in the past due to her friend trying to help her be more social. Now she can't even live without being social. She still has it usually when we're out in public her anxity and she'll start picking at her calluses on her hand. She does write but not letters it's more like a diary to let her feelings out. This show is awful on represents social anxity because you would not be just making lies on the spot. You would proubley be quiet and listening to everyone else talk while also wanting to get out of it after awhile

[@stephenr3910]

I saw the musical on stage last week and didn't like it. I felt like I had been conned by the marketing and standalone performances I had seen on Macy's parades and other TV shows. It's not inspirational or uplifting. It's about a cuddly teen sociopath who torments a grieving family.

[@lavenderhue1785]

maturing is realising that the gay jokes in sincerely me are not funny in the slightest and would have been outdated in 2005

[@joshuacoldwater]

Guys he based it on a true story- there was a time before cell phones having all of these apps to save shit on, things needed to be saved in labs and oddly printed at schools. That is the main reason he is trusting someone Luke Stephen Chbosky with the film- it is made in a time like 2004-2008 era things were not as technically advanced yet- people were not connected like we are today

[@ErieMaxwell]

I was in high school during that point and I can guarantee to you that not only did cell phones and texting exist (regardless of how hilariously out if date they were even within a few years), but no self respecting teenager was e-mailing their friends, let alone going out of their way to type a journal entry up on Word 🤣You either were using MSN/AIM/etc to talk to your friends, had a locked livejournal you let your friends into, went on a message board, or just, you know, used paper in a notebook that you could hide. I'm Canadian so maybe it was different in the States, but everyone who was on-line in any way that I knew back then would have found the way Evan went about this baffling.

[@joshuacoldwater]

@@ErieMaxwell The Journal entry was an assignment from his counselor that he had to bring back to her, i never said texting wasn’t a thing yet- or aim/msn (neither of which even exist now) What i am saying is that when you had to PRINT something out for a COUNSELOR which is something i am betting you never had to do- It was often something someone would go to a computer lab and there would be one printer up front for all of the computers. I also graduated in 2008, and trust me my memory is impeccable about what we had and did not have.

[@evingrindle1929]

I absolutely love the music and am totally going to see the movie, Ben Platt’s an amazing actor and singer, but I gotta admit that the story itself is very messed up.

[@rixx46]

I am certain the movie will bomb -- even though the play is successful. I think it must appeal to teenage girls for some reason --- like LEGALLY BLOND. Some good songs (out of the context of the musical). I think the overall success of the play is nearly entirely on the shoulders of Ben Platt. He's genuinely gifted but he's NEARLY 30 playing a high school kid? Theatrical conceit does not translate to the screen.

[@User5670.]

Honestly I used to like it but now it's just odd. No one would forgive him and I really wanna sympathize with Evan because I'm *just like him* like I act like him and I have the same mental health problems as him and honestly in the beginning I did sympathize with him, but when he got so involved with a person he didn't know just to impress the girl he found hot I lost it. And I think Evan honestly started to believe that he was somehow really Conner's Best friend and that all the things he said happened did really happen, but it was only for a minute because the guilt filled his body. If he said he lied as soon as it blew up and he accepted that he was a jerk and nobody accepted him and maybe he offed himself from the guilt it would be more realistic, but realistic doesn't mean a good representation of mental health and how to deal with it. It's a good movie/play but not a good lead character.

[@aspenbradford4301]

nice Jared cosplay

[@RAWR20200]

For the longest time I was only ever to really listen to the music, I new Evan had lied about something but I was never sure what it was, good for you, anybody have a map, and waving through a window were always my favorite songs, but yeah, maybe it's just because I was a blind teenager who was I guess gaslit by the music to not blame Evan but now I know how terrible he was. Makes me wish we got something like a dark comedy or even have the story through Evan and Conner's view. In general it definitely needed to be a better story

[@derekghost9543]

Honestly. If they buckled down on evan being antagonistic lead and made some changes the story could work. Have him lose at the end. A good villian still has to lose even if he wins like Dr.Horrible. make the cast a lie. One last chance to get attention. His arm was never broken. Just another scheme to try to get people to notice him more. Which ironically worked, just not how he planned.

[@joshuacoldwater]

The moral of the story is be honest, even when it hurts. Speak up.

[@judycarrasco74]

That's exactly what I get out of it, too.

[@Be_more_silly]

The book is so much better (help that sounds so cliche) but there are chapters in it from Connor's perspective so you actually hear how he feels and it's NOTHING like how he's portrayed in the musical (I haven't seen the movie) he isn't just some bad person who comes back as a ghost to tell Evan he should keep spreading lies about him he's a well written (in my opinion) character with his own issues but he has redeming qualites and when you get his perspective you understand that he isn't ok with everything Evan does I honestly hated Evan in most of the book he pissed me off SO BAD I highly recommend the book

[@afriend3226]

I've never watched the musical, so this really helped me understand the plot. Now that I better understand it, I want to say that I do agree with some of the things you mentioned because some of them are just so.... just why. But for the whole part where the Murphy's show him his own letter to himself in the principal's office, it honestly makes sense to me why he didn't just come clean and say it wasn't Connor's. If I were Evan, and that family believed I was the last connection to their dead son, I wouldn't be able to tell them I wasn't. I just would not be able to hurt them like that. And if I didn't keep it up and continue creating the story, they'd find out and everything would get really ugly. So, I do understand Evan's motives, though he really shouldn't have continued with it. But sometimes it's hard to say no. As for the whole Zoey and Evan dating thing? That is just no. It's weird how it happens. And then everything past I guess what would be the Words Fail moment just seems like the writers ran out of ideas for an ending and decided to hit the fast forward button and make everything weirdly ok. It's half and half for me. Seeing as I'm a socially anxious people pleaser, I like it, but at the same time there are things I don't. Thanks for the explanation on the plot! It makes so much more sense now.

[@Korulol_]

Yknow these guys are just explaining the point of deh i think.

[@MsTinkerbelle87]

Haha I thought it was a gay love story too like Love, Simon LOL Oh if only..

[@mmdpod]

I love this movie and musical

[@wildsarsaparilla]

Whoa! You dudes seem to totally well-adjusted and would never possibly make a decision for no apparent reason. Do not sit behind me in the Theater. Oh, that's right, you're not going. 😎

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Thanks for watching the video! I’m glad you liked it! Don’t forget to smash that links button and subscribe! ☺️

[@littlemissmatsuo39]

‘Oh, that’s right, you’re not going.’ Dude, you are trying waaay too hard to be edgy here. The sunglasses emoji gives it away.

[@LadySaundra]

Where does the movie talk about sexual assault?

[@MusicalswithCheese]

It doesn’t in the movie, we do talk about it in the video since it does happen in the stage show.

[@ultimatewolfexists2378]

@@MusicalswithCheese I’ve seen the musical and read the book twice, and I don’t remember that?

[@anyahaar5186]

This disgusts me. Dear Evan Hansen is an amazing show and it really brings awareness to the fact that some people die without ever being heard of. You are looking for every bd problem, but it is an amazing show! You also have to keep in mind that this play was written a little while ago. And it sets a good example and shows that no matter how bad the situation, we can ALWAYS make a difference. There is a reason this is a critically acclaimed Broadway musical.

[@anyahaar5186]

PLus, what would you have done in this situation. Their kid just committed suicide and even realizes that they don't want to know that their kid died with 0 friends.

[@bobbywise2313]

I understand the perspective of those who hate this Musical. I do not hate it and felt the acting was awesome and liked most of the music. I am not convinced it deserved the Tony award but I almost never agree with that selection.

[@littlemissmatsuo39]

@@anyahaar5186 It’s okay, darling, we all know it’s a bad musical. Trying to make people change their opinion on it isn’t the way to go, though. Also, it disgusts you? Bro, are you *still* in the 2018 theatre kid phase where no said kid knows how to respect someone else’s opinion? 😅

[@eee9266]

Your entire argument for Dear Evan Hansen was that Evan did a good thing. Which is the biggest issue with the entire show, it makes Evan out to be a hero when he was not. It wasn’t up to Evan to manipulate Connors family into thinking their son had a good life. The thing about depression is that it’s ugly, and that wasn’t even shown in the show. Connors actual feelings towards his life were not expressed in the music because Connor did not matter as a character, and his depression and suicide was just fuel to Evans SEVERE problem with selfishness. Evan did not do the things he did to make Connors family remember their sons life as full of love and happiness, Connor did it because he was compensating for his lack of life experience and happiness. It feels like this show was written for people who take a tragedy like suicide and use it to find themselves like Evan did. Connor wasn’t a person, he was a growth point for Evan and somehow justifies connors suicide.

[@littlemissmatsuo39]

@@anyahaar5186 I wouldn’t do anything. I’d console them, sure, but I wouldn’t try to pretend to be a friend to someone I barely knew because: 1. Their death has absolutely nothing to do with me. 2. You don’t do what Evan did to a *mourning* family. *Ever*.

[@tristanmayer5373]

someone missed the point of the show

[@MusicalswithCheese]

Thanks for watching the video! I’m glad you liked it! Don’t forget to smash that links button and subscribe! ☺️

[@mariet9573]

😤