Death of the Retail Bike Shop? Reasons why it is time to close our Retail Bike Shop

[@BikingRoots]

We will still be around here and online, but local customers that would come in to our shop, it's been an awesome ride and thank you for all your support over the years! Stay in touch!

[@JNorth87]

I've never seen a well-run bike shop.

[@BikingRoots]

@@JNorth87 Ha, probably true… Maybe someday somebody will figure it out

[@prophetzarquon]

Inventory management in a field full of customization, is the stuff purchaser nightmares are made of.

[@tryink688]

The trend that seems successful is a bike shop/cafe combo. You should look into that.

[@paulschulz6300]

This hurts. Evan, Alise and family. Thank you for all you have done for me and my family. Along with all of Houston and the biking industry. You guys are not just a shop I went to, I consider you guys close friends and hope to see you guys soon and stay in touch. I’ll be in there quite a few more times before the end of the year. I thank you guys sincerely!

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you Paul so much for your support as a customer and as a friend over the years... This isn't the end though, just ending this chapter... Chapter 3 will be better! I also consider you a close friend and will continue seeing each other around. Thank you so much for all you have done for us and for Biking Roots and for Timberlane and the Houston MTB community, you are awesome!

[@OG_ArthurSlugworth]

I mountain bike almost 7 days a week sorry to hear your closing. What is killing it for me is prices of bikes cost more than brand new motorcycles. I can’t justify upgrading my bike when it’s the same price as a decent used car

[@prophetzarquon]

Wait, _where have you seen a decent used car?!?_ I wish I was only kidding... Yes, new bicycle designs now cost motorcycle money, but >10yr old x00,000 mile automobiles are selling for almost half their original MSRP! Meanwhile, fewer & fewer motorcycle dealers are servicing their older units... a lot of older models seem superior to their modern counterparts... & the saddle heights have all gotten so low that they make me feel like a bear on a tricycle... With so many customers paying a lot extra to get something _very slightly_ fancier, simple practicality is just out the window!

[@kidtommy3321]

Thank you for being you Evan! I appreciate all the questions that you have answered for me over time and your patience. I do appreciate you and thank you for what you have done for the community.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment and glad to help, anytime!

[@brettm.1115]

I'm not crying, I just got something in my eye. Sad news Evan! Glad you will still be putting out videos though. Biking Roots lives on!

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks man, yeah it sucks but hopefully will look back someday and be glad we made the decision. Yes, Biking Roots will live on!

[@renedecquir1931]

Sorry to hear the news. I appreciate the product reviews and taking us to the trails in Houston.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment and glad you find some use out of some of them! Take care

[@tomerinbar]

Dude I'm watching you from Israel, I love your reviews ! this is so sad and a big loss for us the viewers. I wish you all the best and will defentily folow your new channel !!!

[@themediocremountainbiker_71]

You could tell this is tough on you. Thanks for what you do

[@mattkock]

Thank you for Everything you do and have done for the Mountain Bike community. You will be back.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks Matt! Appreciate your support and friendship… We shall see, hopefully!

[@TheBicycleRider]

As a local brick and mortar bike shop owner, I can totally relate! Thanks for your closing comments #supportyour localbikeshop and #mtb❤️

[@BikingRoots]

@@TheBicycleRider Thanks for your comment and support. Good luck to you and wish you success!

[@douglaskaye1395]

Evan I’m so sorry for your pain and loss. You’re an amazing person and you will come out on top. I’ll definitely keep you in mind when I need to get something. 👍

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you so much! Appreciate the kind words and encouragement. Thanks for the support. Take care

[@TRPL3D]

Good luck and we wish you the best!

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you, appreciate it!

[@bikenraider99]

Oh wow! I'm down the road from you in Houston proper. First time hearing of your shop and disappointed you had to close retail. Glad you are pivoting and still staying in the community

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment, sorry didn't discover us until now but see you around!

[@donoboyer4704]

Tough bro. At least you sold quality products that your customers continue to enjoy long after the purchase 🤝

[@Proviction]

Same thing happening with my LBS buddy in Texas. He doesn't carry many bikes at all, and if he does theyre lower spec models. Will order for people if they need them so he doesnt float the cost of holding them. He mostly does service & upgrades. He's great about price matching online retailers.

[@BikingRoots]

Yeah, it is tough to compete. Lately it has been impossible to match online as more and more retailers are exiting, the prices they are dumping stuff for is way under wholesale! Yeah, I'm not sure how long it will continue, but we can't keep hoping it will turn around. Appreciate the comment and take care!

[@ronbell7920]

Manufacturers totally killing their dealers! Dumping their bikes on to on line retailers who purchase bikes at below wholesale rates.

[@agcgilmour]

Having narrower bars would hugely help!!!

[@jaydub308]

I'm sorry to hear this. I was on the market for an ebike. A few different brands I was interested in (tired to stick with what my LBS had) 4 different models and brands I couldn't even get them one was gonna be 12k. I ended up going direct to consumer for less than half. There's going to be some corrections both industry and economy.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment, yeah totally understand you reasoning, glad you got a sounds like pretty sweet ebike from DTC. Tough to compete with that big of a price disparity! Good luck

[@littlegoobie]

I was saying to someone how my bike shopping changed a few years before covid. I used to go into my favorite shops a few times/month. sometimes I needed to replace parts, other times i was just changing or upgrading a piece on a bike for giggles. It wasn't until just recently that I saw the slow evolution in my buying habits. It all started when I was looking for another bike a while ago, i went into a few shops and for me to buy one that had parts and components that met my baseline level of quality, it was over double the cost of the last time i got a similar bike. Even basic wear parts like tires went up in leaps. The last set of sks fenders i got was $80+ That much for pieces of plastic and some bracketing?! Anyways, what i started doing instead of buying new was looking at nearly new, used bikes that had almost everything i wanted, sometimes i would need to do parts swaps from my collection of bits, but i would end up with something that was good. I have quite a few bikes. ...then covid hit and the "shortage" caused massive price spikes in parts and bikes. Suddenly a mid priced bicycle at a bike shop was $4000-6000 with plenty of options between $6-8K.. The last new bike i got from a bike shop was years before covid but the higher prices for lower tier components was obvious even then. There might be a day when i do that again, but the prices vs component level needs to match. If it's a bike in the thousands it should not be 3 basic shimano/sram parts etc PLUS a mix of off brand and nameless components to make it work. When I see $2000 bikes with alivio with microshift bits, bottom end hayes brakes, unbranded cranks, nameless hubs, etc...they can keep it. As you said, there will be corrections coming.

[@jaydub308]

@littlegoobie this is wild. I took my new bike in for service. I could hear a creaking noise. That I thought was the bottom bracket. Turn on, it's actually cheap settle. It came with. Not to mention the dropper post that feels rubbery. I think for the price they could have put in a little bit more quality..... with black Friday sales, I'm replacing a few things. This dropper and saddle are worse than the demo bike I got in 2018! Be safe my friend.

[@littlegoobie]

@@jaydub308 glad you found out where the problem was. But, yeah, that's exactly what i'm talking about. When you pay for what should be a good bike, based solely on the price, doens't turn out that way. I kinda got suckered that way more than once. I get home and when i take a closer look at the bike, I spot the places where they threw on some garbage pieces that i didn't see in the store just to boost the profit margin. You got the saddle and seatpost. Other common finds are plastic pedals, unbranded cabling, cheap Kenda nylon tires, mismatched front and rear deraillleur, off-brand bottom brackets. It's nuts. They used to talk about how pro tour riders had bikes $15-20K and we would think "wow", right. These days, that's not far from what the top bike brands expect typical joe bike riders to pay for "enthusiast" level bikes.

[@prophetzarquon]

Same. I'd had a wonderful Specialized 29er, & the difference between the _same 'trim level'_ just a few years apart, was stark: _Terrible_ Tektro brakes in place of the impressively controllable Shimano they'd shipped with before; clunky throwaway pedals _anyone_ would want to replace; the crappiest Specialized seat I've seen since the early '90s; aaaand a cheaper brand of tires. At first, I thought I was looking at some salvage rebuild the local shop had cobbled together; then I saw, that was the spec listed in that year's catalog, & it cost $400 more than the 'same' one I'd bought before. I'd have had to pay almost a thousand extra _to get the same bike_ as a bike that had cost less than $2K in the first place! Mind you, this was _long_ before CoViD '19; the situation is _so much_ *_worse_* _now..._

[@augenmaugen]

All the best to you and sorry you’re going through this. Stay close with your family, keep communicating and working together. Paths will open. You’ve thought of everything already, but in case it helps in brainstorming, a local company in my area focuses on mobile repairs. It might sound icky, but they’ve signed on with a few budget e-bike companies (lectric and others) to be part of their network/show up on the ebike company’s website as authorized servicers-which must be a godsend for the countless people who know nothing about changing a tube, adding liners or fixing/replacing sketchy brakes, and don’t have a way to transport an 80 lb fat bike to the shop. All the best.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment and suggestion. Yeah that's an idea with some of those big heavy ebikes that people don't know how to work on, assuming they are willing to pay for the work and it is worth your drive time going over there... We shall see what we end up doing but thanks again and take care

[@moto-rambler]

The one industry I have zero empathy for is the bicycle industry. I'm not talking about mom & pop bike shops, I'm talking about the manufacturers. $120 tires. $5000 framesets. $2000 wheelsets. $5000+ hardtails. Etc etc etc. The price gouging & the contemptuous attitude towards cyclists is why the industry is where it is. Let the go out of business without even mentioning their names.

[@BikingRoots]

Appreciate the comment and perspective towards the bike industry! Yeah, it can be brutal. One thing I've noticed (and didn't necessarily want to go into in the video to keep it shorter) is the lack of support from some of the brands... They insist on your shop being represented by a "rep" . Not to trash on reps because some of them are awesome, have huge territories covering multiple states, and still somehow have time to spend the afternoon with you, hearing your rants, and strategizing with you to try and succeed (Thanks Bill @Norco). Often though you have a person you may see once or twice a year when they want you to put in a pre-season order at large amounts, then you never see them again. No support, no follow up, not needed. Yet, anything you buy from the brand, the rep gets a commission (often higher than what you are making after the brand slashes the price of the bike)! I've asked to not have a rep and give the profit to us since we are the ones doing all the work.. nope, have to have a rep... so in summary, I think pricing would be more competitive if some big changes are made in manufacturing, the marketing and distribution model, etc... Hopefully it will happen and not end up being a sport for the rich...

[@Raymond-Farts]

I just watched a new video GCN put today of a new Colnago steel frame bike. Guess what the price is? $20,000. They are calling it a limited edition. That's a laugh. Why would even a collector support Colnago? It's not really even Colnago anymore. I just ordered two tires for my road bike from Rene Herse which cost me $188. That's a lot considering I only got 2000 miles so far on my last set. I know, I'm the dummy for paying it but these tires ride so nice. I build my own wheels but they still end up costing around $1000 with aluminum rims. I live in Pittsburgh and I don't see nearly the numbers of people riding anymore that I used to see just a few years ago. People seem to be turning off to the bike. We need another Lance Armstrong like era to light the fires only this time maybe in the Gravel arena. I know, he was a doper but they all are still doing it. They just aren't getting caught because that hurts the Sports bottom line. That's a topic for another video. I think in store shopping will return someday when people have had enough of porch pirates stealing their deliveries. A $10,000 bicycle getting stolen would change people's attitudes.

[@BikingRoots]

@@Raymond-Farts Wow, that's crazy expensive! I'm actually not familiar with Colnago. Sad to hear you don't see as many people in Pittsburgh riding. Maybe that will change. Interesting you brought up Armstrong... I've heard from others in the industry that at least here in TX, probably elsewhere too when he was on top, it was like a covid boom in TX for road cycling and cycling in general.. It helped people get out there more. Now unfortunately so many people spend a lot of their time on their tiny hand held computers. I have to limit it with my boys and get them out there on bikes since they unfortunately often choose screens over bikes.

[@beckbrosbmx]

@@BikingRoots I was born and raised in Austin and I worked at the airport on the general aviation side when Lance came back from France after his win in 1999 on a private jet, and I unloaded his bags! Austin always had a strong bike scene. I left the area for good 20 years ago so I don't know about now.

[@GregBalzer]

@@BikingRootsYeah, something’s broken. We have a fair amount of disposable income (for hobbies) but these prices seem crazy even to me. Yes, these bikes have incredible engineering, but most full sus mountain bikes start at $5k, and the one you really want is $7k. I’d prefer to support my local shop, but those numbers are $2k too high.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I'm hoping you can keep the name alive as you suggested, such a cool name. I'm sorry the shop is closing but I perfectly understand everything suggest it's the most intelligent thing to do right now in your location... Here too shit hit the fan... F yeah small shops owners are not into getting rich, even where I live most shop owners work full time on service and/or sales also relying on the skiing season to meet their end of year goal but skiing is about the same post pandemic story as bikes, everyone got geared up in 20/21 and used market is saturated. Service in general and ebike repair seems to be the only way to make things work now. I'll keep following 🤟

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you for all the comments, appreciate your support. Glad you like the name, ha! Yep, good points. Just talked to an ebike only shop here in Houston and he's killing it moving 80+ bikes/month... Not what I've been experiencing at all! Oh well, still love MTB and will still keep talking about it and promoting it. Take care

[@maschwerer]

Sorry to hear this bad news. The dream isn’t over, just evolving. Hang in there.

[@smokeycanuck8058]

Sorry to hear. We are seeing the same chaos in Canada. LBSs closing. Blow out pricing. Sales tanking. I've been watching a bunch of KZbinrs talking about the state of the industry. Yeah the world does shop different these days, I'm guilty of it too. But I place some of the blame on manufacturers, their greed and inability to read the room. I feel the bike industry has focused too much on fancy tech and crap MOST people don't want or need e.g. $15000 carbon race rockets, hydro brakes, electronic transmissions, dropper posts etc. and the industry has mercilessly tried to convice people that they need to have this stuff to be happy on a bike. And too many bike shops have become parrots for their manufacturers/distributers. Years back I went into a LBS for my first gravel bike. I was looking at an $1100 bike and the owner said "don't buy that one, you'll be back in a year to buy the step-up". WHAT??? So the $1100 bike ON YOUR SHOP FLOOR isn't really good but the $1600 is??? Walked out and never went back. The industry needs a serious reboot and refocus. I know I sound naive but let's get back to basics. Let's sell the joys and benefits of cycling and NOT the tech. Let's get back to the basics with well built, well spec'ed bikes with simple parts that can be easily serviced by home wrenches. See Rivendell Bikes as an example. Good luck in the future sir.

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you for your comment and insight. Sad to hear about the nature in Canada. Regarding your comment on tech, yeah you made some great points. Now that bike geos are pretty dialed (what are they going to do, go even slacker and longer!), most of the brands don't really have a lot of proprietary stuff left with the frame and a lot of it is licenses anyways and patents have expired on really good designs... so they are left with buying components from everyone else, which every brand does. I have mixed feelings on the new tech... I for one do love AXS shifting (for its reliability), hate the cost, AXS dropper I've owned and wasn't that impressed with why an $800 dropper would still build up negative pressure like the old Reverbs! I'm kind of attracted to tech honestly, but I also understand what you are saying and the high end of bike prices has grown crazy! I think you get a lot more for your money than you did in the 90's when I started mountain biking, but yeah the top end is for the rich only. At the same time though, at that price point, you are often buying PROFESSIONAL level stuff. Most industries, like car racing, nobody could afford an actual professional race car. But, bike are much simpler than that so I see your point... I do think however that you are spot on with getting back to refocusing on the basics and the benefits of cycling and ease of repair so that more people can get into the sport and keep their rigs going! take care

[@prophetzarquon]

First, let me say that I wholly agree with you _in principle._ In specific terms, though... I've been riding with hydraulic brakes since the early '00s, & (despite a _lot_ of wrecks) never had a line break, etc... The progressive engagement & immense braking force, of hydraulic brakes, are just so worth it, when the alternative is to roll onward one inch farther than is safe! Also, cheap droppers that don't suck, do exist, & OMG I want one on every bike I ever have to do a step descent on, please! That said, paying hundreds for a telescoping seatpost just seems dumb to me; I want something quick & stable, not some status symbol for my butt. I'm also quite certain, that materials tech & clever redesigns, will continue to enable new parts & builds that are _actually_ innovative (rare, I know) & _some_ of that will surely filter to even sanely priced bikes, eventually: I don't know _anyone_ who wants to return to quill stems, or the old lopsided sidepull caliper rim brakes!? _Some_ tech _is just_ *_better_* than what came before. Mostly though, I agree that manufacturers are chasing exclusivity & even proprietarianism; iterating scarcely-worthwhile new designs simply because "new" tends to sell itself.

[@tonkshred]

Damn man so sorry. I watched all your videos when i was starting MTB looking at the marins. Good luck!!

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you, all good, we'll survive... Glad we may have helped you get started in MTB in some way, appreciate it!

[@jimm2353]

I've worked in the industry at forecasting / purchasing level.. Alot of factors led us to this point but at the end of the day "Big fish eat the life fish"

[@JoeKyser]

You tried it and that says a lot. So what you love and keep trying different things. It takes failure to create success

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you for the kind words and agree completely… Yes failure is absolutely needed to be successful just wish I could have failed a bit smaller lol, but could have been worse as well. Take care

[@harryrowland4734]

It was a case of paying business rent, rates and associated overheads, or wages for me. I chose wages and would never go back to retail premises

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment, yeah it is tough and totally understand

[@russellbeck980]

Sorry this happened, and 100% on your message about the bike industry. LBS closures are happening everywhere. I run a 'micro' bike shop and I specialize in BMX race bikes and that is the only reason I'm still open. None of the LBS's do BMX anymore as there just isn't any money in it to support a shop. The only shops I know doing okay are the mobile vans that go out to stranded MTB'ers and side gig shops that specialize in a specific niche.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment. Oh right on, that’s cool. We had thought about doing BMX racing for my boys but the scheduling didn’t work out for us at the time. Glad the mobile vans in your area are doing well. Yeah, there will still be a need of some sort, we shall see how it plays out and which versions end up surviving… Take care

[@beckbrosbmx]

​​​@@BikingRoots get into BMX racing anyway just have some sports to do. It is outside of mainstream cycling and is still relatively strong. People not having money has affected BMX sells more than undercutting from the suppliers.

[@BikingRoots]

@@beckbrosbmx nice, yeah maybe we will. My boys don't necessarily enjoy riding XC trails here in Houston, they like doing bike park stuff and jumps but not the flat long distance stuff. BMX racing could be fun.. we shall see. Hope economy improves and people have more money to spend on BMX!

[@joehoeper3941]

I feel ya dude - I worked for a bike brand and just got laid off last week. It's real out there. Real rough.

[@BikingRoots]

Oh no, so sorry to hear man. I hope you rebound and find another job soon

[@deadreckoner5276]

Try opening a mountain bike shop in Florida this time around.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks, great idea! I've got my eye on Florida... j/k

[@randycallow3736]

People don't take responsibility.. it's a level of denial and just being disingenuous. American retail is all completely fake, the economy and the customers. If you walk American retail, Walmart, Target, Dick's Sporting Goods, anything from Amazon, Bass Pro Shop, all sporting goods, motorcycle and bicycle shop .. nobody cares about anything but price. People shoo online for everything, food,sex, and bicycling stuff. The industry is not the problem, it's the customers, and customers if they thought even for a minute,direct to customer and selling name brands online.. that's what kills the business..

[@BikingRoots]

Yeah, you make some valid points about customers and price and yeah that is a tough one as production has moved off shore and we are used to paying certain prices for things... It is tough to compete even if you come in and say it is US made and better quality, etc... will the consumer decide to support that over the cheaper product? I don't know. Not sure what it would take to turn things around and how to get everyone to be on the same page

[@roastawk]

I've seen a friend close his shop and move to selling "experiences" instead. He now is a provider of bike and bike packing tours. There seems to be a demand for this rather than more durable items like bikes themselves. It also means no employees, no inventory, and no rent. The only thing he is selling is his own experience, expertise, and labor. it seems like a good decision, particularly if the store is closed during trips since the store is closed during the existing tours. Customers can and will buy their bikes online or maybe at big box stores. I have to wonder where the maintenance and repair business will go. Will bikes become disposable? Ride them until they break, then buy a new (cheap) one? Make an appointment with a mobile mechanic? (I personally don't see how someone can make money at that, given the investment in a "shop in a van," the gas, and the constant hustle to drum up yet more business.) Will a franchise or gig aggregator make the business worthwhile? Is some other model -- even one as crazy as "ship it to some shop, have it fixed, then ship it back," going to come around. I fix and tune my own bikes, but I don't want to be in that as a business. In fact, I've also just started as a tour leader for a bike touring company because that way all I have to do is provide expertise and labor. I don't get involved in selling physical inventory, I don't need anything other than a computer and/or a smart phone, and I get paid (not a lot) to go on vacations. I just wonder where my client will be getting their own bikes and repairs. For that matter, where will I get mine when I wear them out?

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you for the thought out comment and opinion! An experience business would be cool! I've always wanted to go on one of those like "epic rides" who do a lot of sweet trips. That would be fun... Would love to someday do some bike packing.. Yes, not having a ton of employees or inventory, or big overhead in a van and gas, would be a huge plus. Yeah, the industry will adapt and change... we shall see what it turns into, but hopefully the sport will continue on just in a different format... Good luck with the bike touring company! Sounds fun

[@curtvaughan2836]

It's really a shame to see bicycle shops fold, but I get that selling new bikes retail has become a real chore. There will always be a demand for bicycle maintenance and service, so I hope that local bike shops can focus on that market. Even if folks buy bicycles online, there is often a demand for shops to assemble the bicycles once delivered. I was in the market for some new bicycles during and immediately after the pandemic, but most of the local shops around here were either closed or out of inventory at the time. I ended up buying two mountain bikes, one full sus. from Transition and a hard tail from Canondale. I was able to get local bike shops to assemble and later service the bicycles.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment. Yeah I think if you have a service shop in an area with lots of biking especially mountain biking where if people ride, stuff just wears out sooner (like Bellingham Washington). As a shop though you have to have enough trained staff and profitable jobs that don’t turn into headaches to make it worth your while to pay rent, your people, taxes, etc… For us it wasn’t necessarily my passion to just do service, and the jobs we would get were not very profitable. Congrats on the Transition and Cannondale and good luck to you

[@mikejones420]

It sucks you need to close shop, but it is also the best decision you can make now. I really don't foresee the business rebounding within the next few years, to many changes in consumer buying online for sure. Also I think the bikes themselves have reached a peak in tech/design that I see some things going back to earlier years, such as higher rise bars on some model that once had 15mm rise bars, now have 30, even 40mm rise, also bikes are now heavier than they were in the early 2000's. just too many range options as well, like the car manufacturers having too many models of the same vehicle. Video killed the radio star, and online shopping killed the retail store. Good luck in all your future endeavors, much love.

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you for your comment. Yeah I think you are spot on, especially with big design. I too feel like we have reached a point where tech/design doesn’t have a lot of room to grow. Ebikes I do see evolving more as motor and battery technology improve but they have to figure out how to make good ones less expensive. Yeah I’ve heard higher rise bars may be making a comeback! Ha. Yeah, it is like the car industry in may ways, I remember when GM had so many different brands/models that would compete with each other. Sometimes too many options is overwhelming and then you end up with sub par models. We shall see what the future holds but I’ll keep biking and watching from a different vantage point how it plays out. Take care!

[@prophetzarquon]

I've never understood low bars: Dropping low for aero, _is a short term tactic;_ even pro racers sit back up for comfort\breath during most of the ride. The durations spent riding tucked low, are so short by comparison, that a bent arm position doesn't seem to present any issue at all...?! So, _why would I want my default grip position, too low to reach without leaning???_ That's just bad ergonomics, & ergonomics are more important than almost anything else on a bike. A high stem with bar end grips, or even a very high stem with dropper bars, makes some sense to me. Grips that are lower than the saddle _at their highest,_ have never made sense to me at all. Riders can go farther, faster, when they're _comfortable!_

[@greener8116]

My brother-in-law was recently laid off from a VP position with Alta Cycling Group, the parent of Redline, Diamondback and IZIP. He had been in his position for over 20 years. The whole industry is changing, and the private equity firms don't give a rat's ass about anyone.

[@BikingRoots]

So sorry to hear about your brother in law... Yep, I know Alta, not super well, but have seen them over the years. Yeah, it is sad to see people's lives affect by business changes... My dad worked for a large computer company in the 80's and 90's and was thriving until it wasn't and got whittled down drastically. Change is tough, but sometimes for the best... take care!

[@russellbeck980]

Some DB employed peeps told me layoffs were coming for DB too. Alta already killed Redline bikes, but they seem to make money on brand licensing for retro parts/bikes made by Kastan You're right about equity firms not caring.

[@BikingRoots]

@@russellbeck980 Oh dang, that sucks... Yeah unfortunately I think it is going to get worse before things turn around especially with the cost of freight containers from asia going up to near covid levels again which isn't a good recipe for success and pricing. Didn't know about Alta killing redline but have watched stuff happening with Fox head and Kona and other brands.. it's a shame. Hang in there and good luck to you!

[@virginiascurti5036]

Sorry to here it, good luck!

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you, appreciate it

[@billcooper2798]

Sorry to see another bike shop disappear 😢

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks, yeah me too! Hopefully the industry will re-structure, and more can pop up in the future!

[@billythekid6630]

Sorry for your loss...But unfortunately investing in a business that sells a product that is basically a manual chunk of aluminum and steel for the prices that bicycle companies are charging for their product , just doesn't make any sense for the average American anymore..

[@jackiegammon2065]

First, let me say that I am a shop owner,so feel as though I can share some info.In some situations, You're right bike shops are losing money with such large discounts. However, there is another side to this. If a shop has overbought inventory, such as most of the bike industry sadly did... "yes" you might be in trouble.However, discounted bikes in many situations have helped everyone except the bike manufacturers. This over producing and over buying was simply nothing more than greed. We all knew that the "bubble" of things flying off the shelves wasn't going to last forever, and for some who rode that ride...well., I'm sure it was not a comfortable place to be...but they put themselves there. There have been times, that shops and bike customers are getting good deals, but the bike manufacturers are getting rid of too much inventory. I think if you look around a bit, it happened in many areas of life. The piece of this puzzle that works are for the shops, bike manufacturers that listen to reason, put a lot of thought into how much inventory they can handle, and perhaps think "wisely" and not buy/produce so much. It's ok to not have every model in stock, and the fact is that many people will respect that, and buy being slightly patient... you have created more interest/excitement about a product. The bottom line has to be something that you can manage, all the while creating great customer service, and being loyal to that. It is a hard decision to make, isn;' very popular, but for the companies that adhered to those principles... they are still in business and recreating their shops and what they can offer.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment and insight. Agree with what you’ve said. One of my frustrations has been like you said, the manufacturers were used to selling everything they could make… the bikes would come in the containers, go to the warehouse for inventory and then right out the door to the shops and/or customers… Before that, they would have bikes in inventory that you could order from and not stock every size and color. With covid they got used to not having to look at bikes and inventory. When it came to what seemed like a sudden halt, suddenly they got uncomfortable and decided to start slashing or like Kona and Marin, “buy one get one” nonsense. Great for the consumer, but not great for the environment or retail shops. I would love to see brands go away from this model year mess where all they do is change a color and maybe a fork, and the previous year’s version is 40% off and now you lose money on it just for a color change so they can move their inventory… same goes with helmets, gloves, etc.. Yeah they have to figure out realistic ordering and how they are going to move that inventory especially if the brands want to have their own direct to consumer store and also pretend to support the retailers as well… Anyways, lots to think about, thanks for the insight and good luck!

[@brucehumphries6889]

This whole industry needs a flush. The model is broken, and the shops suffer from it.

[@BikingRoots]

Yeah I would agree with that and from reps and people that have been in it a lot longer than me, they agree. Hopefully it can restructure soon to a more efficient model for business and consumer

[@ivanboesky1520]

It’s not really about efficiency, it’s about greed. So long as you have bicycle companies owned and run by hedge funds and similar minded PE owners small local bike shops will continue to get squeezed and eliminated. People in the US in particular love to live under this false illusion that unfettered and unregulated capitalism is all about efficiency. Nonsense! It has always from day one been about maximizing profits and greed. Period! Today this capitalism uses sophisticated marketing to sell mediocre quality fabricated products to customers at inflated prices across most industries. Convincing people for example that a mass produced bike frame that literally cost no more than $500 to fab in mainland China is somehow a multi thousand dollar item because some sponsored pro literally rode it on cable ONLY because they were paid to ride it. How “efficient” were private capitalist company’s like Haliburton and Kellogg Root &Brown or Blackwater over in Iraq??? Their performances were laughably poor and grotesquely inefficient on many fronts, yet they made billions of dollars doing it and laughed all the way to the bank. How “efficient” was private capitalist contractor Lockheed Martin in the production of the F35 fighter jet when they literally had a $1 trillion with a “T” in cost overruns on the production of that F35 debacle? How “efficient” has Boeing been for the past decade? Or better yet, how “efficient” have capitalist US HMO’s been over the past 3 decades in lowering healthcare costs and making healthcare more EFFICIENT and affordable?????

[@prophetzarquon]

With electronic purchasing & fulfillment, there's less & less reason to buy from retail resellers instead of direct from manufacturers. Bike shops have always had very low profit margins. Automotive dealerships are also facing a crunch, as manufacturers shift to direct sales (Tesla style). It's going to make it harder than ever, to get good _service_ when selecting & maintaining a bicycle, car, etc... I think a model similar to tattoo shops, where individual artists(/builders/technicians) lease space in a shared shop, to pool resources (the shared workspace model), may be the most viable model, going forward.

[@brucehumphries6889]

@ Good idea, the manufacturers could also set up distribution centers in key locations. Instead of having a shop stock inventory (sit on capitol), they order a demo fleet and have the “try before you buy” dynamic. Then the manufacturers have an inventory in the distribution centers based off projected orders that can have said bike to the shop in less than three days.

[@georgeadams-mb6yd]

The goal of manufactures is throw away bikes. Direct sales can and will always be cheaper. Bicycle shops have to face the reality of being squeezed out of sales and regulated to repairs/ maintenance.

[@BikingRoots]

Yeah it's true.. It's interesting to see some DTC companies try and have a physical presence in some way which I understand since it some cases (warranty, service, etc) it is tough to provide good customer service without seeing the bike in person... just the nature of the product and business. Yeah we shall see what the future holds, thanks for the comment

[@brockjennings]

Bicycles are becoming more complex in terms of repair and maintenance. Those proprietors with mechanical aptitude will fare this storm much better.

[@BikingRoots]

Agreed and yes especially when you get into the newest ebikes, it gets complicated to diag... I think some shops that just specialize in certain things like just suspension or maybe just ebikes can specialize enough where they can provide the needed service that others or youtube how tos, can't provide

[@gainknowledgeandinsight]

I bought a specialize Levo turbo comp carbon via my local shop. I was tempted to go to Canyon CRF - and I’m so thankful I didn’t!! Now they have big battery issues - and ZERO local support!!!! No thanks! Yeah, components might be better but if your battery blows up, you don’t have a bike to ride! Pay a little extra and support local!!

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment and sharing your experience. Surprised there are still some local Specialized stores left and haven't been absorbed by Specialized! Didn't know about the Canyon battery issue! Yeah, that is scary and tough to deal with when you have no local support... Hopefully those customers have a solution soon. Take care and enjoy the Levo, sweet bikes!

[@tomsitzman3952]

The overproduction problem was predicted from the beginning of covid. Mom and pop businesses of types are in trouble everywhere. My wife and I always buy local. The great deal you got online is not such a great deal when your local shop down the street was forced out of business leaving no place to get maintenance work done on your bike.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks, yeah way overproduced and now they have to put it somewhere and when demand slows, the price keeps falling until there is nothing left. It has been basically a constant sale for 2-3 years! Yeah, we shall see what the future holds... thanks for the comment

[@thegreatoutthere]

I left retail cycling in 1985! Back then it was competition from the CATALOG companies. Like today, the best bikes and components are available from direct sales outlets at the same COST that the LBS pays! You can't survive on cheap bikes and parts! (Even worse, I was in Wisconsin with a 6-month season!) We are in the online world. Sadly, retail is dead - which means service is also dead. Have you considered a MOBILE service truck?

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you for your comment. Yes I remember the catalog companies!! Yeah, I think they are all gone now even when they moved them to online... Yes, have considered that and in some markets it might be profitable. Houston is WAY too big and my overhead on gas and time would be tough to account for in what I charged for a service that I probably wouldn't make money on with parts... I heard a lot more of mobile bike mechanics a few years ago and then haven't lately... maybe when gas went through the roof, they went away. Take care and thanks again

[@stevefirth6472]

Bicycles today are very complex products. They need maintenance, repair, and tune-ups. Most cyclists today do not have the time, tools, or expertise to take care of their own bikes. This is the strength of the Local Bike Shop (LBS). You hardly mention anything about service in your video, and that's where the market is.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for comment... you are correct, I did not mention a lot of things including service to try and keep the video shorter and to the point. For us at least service has been a mixed bag. Other parts of the country and other shops for that matter may have had better success. When bikes sales fell off the cliff a couple years ago, it is tough to make money on service in a lot of cases after you add up the time you spent to diagnose, repair, test ride, and finish the job, pay your tech (which an experienced tech is tough to find sometimes and keep after you've trained them up). Before you could make some on parts but lately parts are less to purchase online than we can buy from our wholesale and accounts directly w/ the manufacturers themselves... Rent also is going up all over the place... We shall see what the future service only bike shop would look like since you'd have to have a ton of space to store all the bikes you'd need, a good amount of qualified techs... It's possible, but for us, it wasn't what we could do in our area, or necessarily the business model I wanted

[@ivanboesky1520]

Exactly. Carrying out a large successful primarily service only biz depends a huge amount on the area demographically that you serve. In many parts of the US there simply is not the necessary local customer demographic that would ever permit you to make a living primarily through service/repair revenues when you factor in rent, taxes, salaries of good techs, and the shrinking margins on the sales of replacement parts. Sure, a very high end shop like say Vecchio’s in Boulder, CO where there is literally an ocean of customer money swirling around them and the fact they sell very expensive bikes/components tailored to very high end paying customers can make a “primarily service” model work, but that does not describe the vast majority of small local shops serving customers where $3,000 for a bike is considered very expensive. Meanwhile, a place like Vecchio’s is regularly selling customers $4,000 pairs of Princeton Carbonworks or Zipp NSW wheelsets and those customers are paying that price without a second thought. It’s literally a drop in the bucket to them as is paying multiple hundreds of dollars for a bike service/tube up etc…..

[@stevefirth6472]

@@ivanboesky1520 One thing that you and others have made me aware of, is that replacement parts have become available online for less than bike shops can get them from their distributors for. That is another significant nail in the coffin of LBS.

[@dhfox322]

@@ivanboesky1520Yes, there is an ocean of cycling customer money in Boulder but also a ton of competition... Maybe that's why Vecchio's had to move out of their original home (a beautiful 125 year old shop on Pearl Street, probably one of the coolest bike shop I had ever seen), to their new shop which is in a random strip mall next to a taco shop, liquor store, and State Farm insurance agent. Their cookie cutter new shop still has the vintage bike memorabilia hanging about, but in a strip mall, Vecchio's lost its soul. It's as if an 1880's gold rush bar in Telluride decided to move to a strip mall in some random town down river...

[@ericstobin4305]

@@dhfox322this is not an informed comment. To reach customers, you have to have parking. Additionally the rent kept on going up and up, the key to a store controlling its destiny is to own the building. If not your fate is in someone else’s hands. The statement that the new store has no soul is gibberish.

[@guambra2001]

This stinks but unfortunately it’s reality. May God bless you and your family moving forward.

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you and appreciate wishing some needed blessings our way! May you be blessed as well

[@ArisaemaDracontium]

Good luck!

[@BikingRoots]

Thank you!

[@CHunt-cz1ek]

Consistent over-production of bicycles distorts the entire marketplace. Bicycles, if stored and maintained properly, essentially last forever. Consequently, there is a "hangover" of these bicycles constantly killing residual value and demand for new ones. Sort of like the original lightbulbs -- too durable. Conversely, make them consumable, and no one will buy them. Interesting dilemma to confront.

[@crankshoptv]

Workshop is the only way to make money as a bike shop now. The trouble is there's a lack of good bike mechanics. I saw this is 2013, sadly others didn't, sorry to hear about your business.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment and thoughts... yeah, it's tough to afford to pay good mechanics due to the low profits... You find good ones, train them up, and then they leave to go make real money! I wish I could have paid them more, but often I was taking a paycheck this year just to stay afloat... how it goes.. take care

[@georgekrpan3181]

It's ironic but there are more bike shops than ever here in the burbs of Los Angeles. I rarely go to them, can't afford to. Everything is priced twice or more as much as I can buy them online.

[@BikingRoots]

Those were my exact feelings before I opened my shop.. I thought there were huge margins that they were keeping. Sad truth is there aren't... Often I would try and price match products from online distributors only to find that my price direct from the manufacturer themselves was higher than what they could buy online AND online had free shipping, yet the manufacturer would make me pay for shipping (unless the order was huge)... But, I totally understand your perception and it doesn't mean you should feel bad and go pay more... the whole market and distribution just needs to be modified and the manufacturers need to decide if they are just going to sell direct on their sites or if they want to sell at local shops... we shall see

[@georgekrpan3181]

@@BikingRoots So sorry that you had to close your shop. I've seen it happen time and time again. The Bike Beat in Orange, CA closed after the owners realized that they couldn't compete with the Internet. They reopened in an industrial park under the name Chumba Whumba where they hand built MTB frames. That lasted until the 2007-8 recession and they closed and sold their brand, now called Chumba Bikes. The best of luck in your future endeavors!

[@BikingRoots]

@@georgekrpan3181 Thanks for the comment and encouragement. Yeah tough to see others close too. Didn't know about Chumba! They are in TX now I believe! I've seen a couple on the trails.. Look pretty cool

[@georgekrpan3181]

@@BikingRoots Yes, Chumba now in Austin, TX. Previously in Fullerton, CA. Cheers!

[@gineraso]

Do you sell those t-shirts?

[@BikingRoots]

Yes, we have Biking Roots merch on the website, shirts, some hats, etc. Thanks for asking... bikingroots.com/products/biking-roots-unisex-cvc-jersey-t-shirt?_pos=1&_sid=1dd3918b6&_ss=r

[@peterbedford2610]

Internet purchasing takes out more retail shops every year. The optics, on your local main street, are not great..boarded up store fronts, etc...

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment, yeah we had hoped that "specialty retail" would be more resilient and in some markets I think it will be where people still need a store front of some sorts. Yeah the internet does change business and I often think of the Netflix vs Blockbuster model... the way we watched things changed and the established brick and mortar model couldn't adapt and change fast enough

[@mikemoake6863]

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles that are not your fault. I have had to pivot also, not always easy, but you will come out on top. I have enjoyed your channel, and I hope you continue to do upgrade videos and to fix up bikes. Would love to see what you could do with your old bike you picked up from Utah. Best of luck!

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment. Glad you've enjoyed the channel and yes we will have lots more to come... Ha, was talking to my mechanic about that bike the other day. Need to order some elastomers from the UK to get the fork workable... still on my list of to do items. Stay tuned, hopefully will ride better soon!

[@gregorybolin4672]

Less loans means less money in the economy. We dont live in a free market economy. It's a controlled economy centralized in the hands of a few bankers😢😢 ppl didnt use to worry about a few bucks here and there it's a race to the bottom.

[@solarheat9016]

Have you considered commuter bicycles instead of mountain bikes?

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment and suggestion. Yes, we have and some shops especially in more Houston city area may do well although unfortunately Houston as a whole (Texas included) is just not a bike friendly city or state. We love the car and don’t really give a crap about the bike unfortunately. When they build roads, they never build them wide enough and almost never have shoulders for some reason. I had a college roommate lose his dad to a hit and run while riding his bike after work, then one of my high school best friends was broad sided by a truck and almost killed last year on his way to work… Too many distracted drivers and not enough room for bikes… For Houston area, that’s why our goal was to get people off the roads if possible and be able to enjoy the off road trails that we have. They also hurt less if you crash! Also, from an inventory standpoint (and my personal passion), mountain biking was what we chose to focus our shop around and for good or bad, that’s the decision we made. Take care

[@dracorosso7129]

Do have service in your shop?

[@manfredstrappen7491]

:24 seconds in. Houston doesn’t believe in residential sidewalks? Is this a TX thing?

[@BikingRoots]

lol No! Foolishness... Some neighborhoods do, others don't... In our area of north houston it is hit or miss... it seems during a certain time period, all neighborhoods came in without sidewalks... the result, we all have to walk in the road and try not to get hit by cars or an occasional biker!

[@jasoncrandall]

How bike shops acted during corona made me never step foot in a local bike shop again. I bought all my own tools and now I build and work on bikes myself. It’s easy. All the videos are on KZbin. FU LBS

[@digitaldistro]

Whaaaaaaat? Please tell me you click baited me :( I don't want to play the video, I am scared :(

[@BikingRoots]

Ha, sorry, no click bait, it's true

[@digitaldistro]

@@BikingRoots You guys have done so much for thee community! Not just get family together but create a true biking family amongst many. Thank you for what you all have done for the community as well as my family.

[@BikingRoots]

@@digitaldistro Thank you for the kind words! We tried... wish we could have done more but we'll still be around and still keep doing our part to help and promote. Take care

[@sunset1300]

Have you ever considered selling E-bikes too? what about a mobile bike/ebike repair?

[@raw_si_siht]

E-Bike repairs are simply not worth it.

[@BikingRoots]

We do but higher end mountain bike ones which were much more popular the last few years. Locally, the less expensive ones that are not mountain really, more geared toward casual older bike riders are very popular. We probably could have pivoted that way but just not where I have the experience or passion for. Great option for some people though. Mobile could be an option, Houston is so big, so it would have to make sense with gas, time, etc.

[@sopadre77]

💯. I was just saying this to a friend the other day. I rarely buy anything at my LBS because it's cheaper to get it online. I needed some jockey wheels and my LBS wanted $40. I got them from WCC for $25. Don't get me wrong. I understand why they need to charge $40. It just doesn't make sense for me to pay more. I'm happy to pay my LBS for some maintenance or repairs but any products or parts I need I'm getting online. I think eventually, as you said, LBS will be mainly that; maintenance and repair. It just doesn't make sense, for the retailer or consumer, to sell/buy bikes in a shop.

[@BikingRoots]

Totally understand why you would buy online and can't fault people for that as I obviously want the best deal as well... it is just the whole sales structure that makes it difficult for the retail bike shop to sell a lot of items. Thanks for the comment

[@Raymond-Farts]

I don't really have a need to shop at a bike store. I get my bikes fabricated from custom builders here in the US. I'm not a fan of carbon either so that makes custom a better match for me and I'm not interacting with a person trying to up sale me. Components wise I try to buy US made or just Shimano components. Like I said, bike stores don't have much to offer me because I've been cycling for over 4 decades and I know what I want which isn't a complete bike that has been spec'd with cheap components and parts to meet a price point.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for sharing. Totally understand your point of view and agree in your case and many others it may not be needed… Glad you can get your bikes custom made! That would be fun to do in the future… keep on cycling and stay safe

[@ericstobin4305]

With gloves shoes and clothing these need to be tried on. Is this guy buying these items blindly online and just hoping it fits ?!?

[@Raymond-Farts]

@@ericstobin4305 When I buy clothing online from Assos or Rapha they include a return label in case it doesn't fit. So Yeah, I hope things fit but if they don't it's not a big deal to exchange for the right size. I very rarely have a bad experience buying online.

[@gregcharland]

Close when our economy doing so well?

[@lastpme]

🙏🏾

[@victorrodriguez2806]

After 9:47 I stopped watching. I have about 10 Italian carbon bikes all with Campagnolo. I am old, but I still ride a lot!! I've watched the industry destroy itself over the last 5 years. If you didn't see the writing on the wall then, then you probably don't see it now. You, dear sir, sound like you should have never been in the retail bike business to begin with. Retail is retail, no matter what you sell. You simply failed for lack of knowledge and bad decisions. I can count many bike shops across the country that won't be closing and are making profit. I won't blame you solely. The bicycle industry is in the midst of destroying itself. They have chosen to discontinue making and selling products that the consumer wants. And are forcing bicycle shops to sell high priced junk. I have no sympathy for anyone involved except the consumer. When it's all a pile of rubble. Someone smart will have cost-effective simple bicycles and parts that the average Joe will buy. Until then, Good riddance.

[@kidShibuya]

13:16 man you need to change your attitude on that front. I bought this online and can you install it needs to be your bread and butter. Just charge more if you need to make more. Personally I'll happily pay more for your work, but I will not pay more or specifically wait a LOT longer for it. A few years back I wanted to change one of my bikes from flat bars to drops. I took a list of parts to my local bike shop and they quoted me around $600 more for the parts than I could get them for plus I would need to wait 6 months for them to get them. 3 weeks later I took the parts to them myself and just paid them to do the work. If just doing the work doesn't pay the bills then just charge more. My local shop shocked me with their insane cheap labour, I bought a few things from their shop just because I thought I should. But really just charge for work then I would come to you with even more work. But right now I don't, I buy online and do the work myself cutting the bike shop out of the loop entirely because it seems like a burden for them if they even accept the work at all, most dont saying it isn't worth it... Ok, take zero money then and I won't miss you when your shop is gone.

[@jason_tha1]

e-bikes, no one's supporting them.

[@jbeemz5554]

if you have a personal number and don't mind working from home id still love to provide you some business

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks, appreciate it, we shall see what we decide to do.

[@realvaughnfelix]

Noooooo sign that lease and start selling road and gravel bikes! Don't let the internet be our bike shop! Think outside the box and you'll win. Don't sell what you want to sell, sell what people want to buy and you'll be gold.

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement! Yeah, I guess that was one of my flaws from the beginning.. I've never been a road or gravel fan (not that there is anything wrong with it and have lots of friends that do it) but especially in Houston, there a lot more safer options off road and that is where my passion is and wanted to grow that market here... Also, didn't want to have to inventory all that extra product and inventory and the customers are also a bit different... Oh well, maybe in the future ;-). Take care

[@realvaughnfelix]

@@BikingRoots hopefully things work out for you, and a version 2 of your business can flourish

[@prophetzarquon]

Better be a sweetheart deal of a commercial lease, to be worthwhile these days! A shop that doesn't own its building, exists on a knife's edge of the site owner's whims

[@ivanboesky1520]

I really feel for the local bike shops like this that are steadily closing across the country, but at the end of the day the two biggest culprits are the greed of unfettered capitalism and the big bike industry players (Trek, Giant, Specialized, etc…. ) themselves and other owners just like them. Unfettered capitalism cares about one and only one thing, maximizing profits. The online world along with unfettered capitalism pretty much always ensured that most small family owned brick and mortar bike shops would eventually become obsolete just like the past Blockbusters of the world have become obsolete. They can survive well in select areas with clients willing to pay “through the roof prices” without a second thought, but overall they have been destined for quite some time to steadily become an extinct breed. Combine that with the fact the owners of most of the big major brands now are either hedge funds, holding companies owned by hedge funds or simply owners who are only focused on ROI (think the owner of Specialized for example) and well, this shop in this vid is the predictable result. When the bike industry tries to convince you that you need a $5-8,000 bike to race competitively in just a local CAT 3 or 4 crit it is quite obvious they have lost their minds, and these are not people that truly care about the long term health of their own industry. Just my two cents. 😀

[@benwilliam009]

Could be a blessing? Rent a warehouse and promote the online store via Tik tok, fb, KZbin, etc. Google is great too

[@benwilliam009]

My bad I just watched the video. Sorry man

[@BikingRoots]

@@benwilliam009 No worries! Yeah we shall see what we end up doing but appreciate the support!

[@El-ahrairah-lc3tg]

Man sucks you’re closing the store. I’m sure being in a not so bike friendly city like Houston didn’t help, also having a new mayor that has vowed to cut funding for bike infrastructure

[@BikingRoots]

Thanks for the comment... Yeah parts of Houston are better than others and in some areas it is improving but otherwise the plans they have had are super expensive without a plan where they'll raise the money... For biking to improve in Houston, we need honestly a deep pocket company to re-invest back into our community and then get government to come along for the ride just like Walmart has done in Bentonville and throughout Arkansas working with local and state government... maybe someday or I'll just move up there!