Debating the 8.3.0 PTB - I Don't Think It's Nearly That Bad - Dead by Daylight

[@skerpi4068]

Relax everyone, new feng skins on the way to cheer you up!

[@kmel3588]

feng skin? you still living in 2020? Its all sable skins now

[@numnaut1314]

One day Yun Jin-Lee stocks will rise.

[@genesisosuna]

Sable *

[@mitchsz]

I feel like the focused skin girl is now Sable

[@InfInityNoir]

@@mitchsz mikaela has been getting a new skin every single patch last year, if you think sable is the poster girl you have recency bias

[@GangsterGreg]

That Reddit thread reveals just how bad most people are at DBD. No wonder solo queue is so miserable if people are whining about how dropping pallets against a Nurse will no longer be viable SMH.

[@numnaut1314]

People think they are kings of the game. In reality they are the jester.

[@Qeseu]

Forcing nurse to play a 50/50 when you have no good LoS blockers is a bad play? Watch some nurse 1v1s from good players and they can actually get value out of pallets. But your average nurse player wont be running this perk for such a rare scenario

[@theotherauthor740]

complaining that losing chase means you’re bad at killer when the chase trigger mechanic doesn’t even work half of the time anyway 😭 also the survivor could just sprint burst or lithe away, or shift tech, what have you. lots of reasons to lose chase that have nothing to do with skill.

[@mitchsz]

If you're using Lithe or something that benefits from pallets it's a good thing to pre-drop tbh

[@atrozzorta9602]

THISSSSADASDASSSSS!!!!1!!!!1 I've been saying it for years now and always get downvoted or ignored every time I say it on Reddit. Ofc kill rates are high af, most people playing the game are fucking clueless and refuse to touch gens and can't stay standing for longer than 15s while being chased. No fucking shit kill rates are so high. There is a reason whenever I queue solo queue survivor I expect to lose, and it has nothing to do with the killer.

[@Bullwark_of_the_Week]

I agree Mori's were pretty much only a cool cosmetic thing. But this change makes Mori's useless for bloodpoints and for the cool cosmetics.

[@lastcrustacean2154]

Exactly, now they're lumped in with the hook/chest/hatch/basement/most map offerings, being another thing that wastes space on my bloodweb and wastes points to level, which is already a big enough issue with the previously mentioned things as is. But now we have a whole iridiscent bloodpoint waste to add to the list, and every time I see an ebony mori I'm gonna think "Wow, that could have been an Iri Addon I like using, instead its a 9000 point garbage pile"

[@hxpeful_demxn]

That’s why I don’t get why people don’t mind this new change. Sure, Moris are only cosmetic nowadays and waste your time in comparison to hooking people, but sometimes I just want the flashy kill FOR this cosmetic aspect. Now that BPs aren’t worth it and it kills the cosmetic aspect, they’re literally worthless. I like Mori’ing man, so I’m gonna run devour hope every game in protest

[@theopendoorev]

@@hxpeful_demxnbad news, they’re removing the moris from devour hope as part of this

[@whiterabbit4945]

true and now i cannot even equip a mori to not accidently kill someone lmao the bloodpoint change for it is just lame tho why not something like old BBQ bloodpoint multipliers from mori offerings +10% per either hooked for the first time or killed survivor on yellow, +25% on green and more on red, arguable what multiplier would be reasonable

[@alienheadbite1shot]

Skull Merchant: "They over nerfed me and now I'm barely playable if at all!?" Freddy: "First time?"

[@GoldenDeer_]

The funniest part is Freddy is better than her now lol. His hinder is flat out better and he has teleportation.

[@rxsswell]

@@GoldenDeer_You have to be asleep for Freddy’s snares to take effect and survivors aren’t always asleep 100% of the time. And the teleportation has a really long cooldown and is very very easy to just pre-run away from the gen. The mindgame potential is there, sure, but Freddy is still really just an m1 killer with no power at times. SM is down there in the bottom tier, but I don’t think she’s the WORST, you know what I mean?

[@Atomik0468]

​@rxsswell it's really debatable, and could go 50/50. It's not hard to put people asleep as Freddy, and the more that survivors wake each other up the longer that takes so he can stall for longer and longer. SM doesn't really have much besides a little bit of info that any killer could get with perks

[@serioustable8659]

bhvr: "sorry we knee-jerk nerfed freddy so quickly and severely, we won't make such a drastic change so fast like that in the future" also bhvr: doesn't change him back or do anything about it for a super long time (I am talking about his first version btw not the latest version, but I guess that could apply to any version of him)

[@groudonmario]

I think it's crazy that instead of just focusing on fixing issues BHVR decided to basically remove a character for what might be an entire year.

[@Hyde472]

Nothing of value was lost

[@pixelizedpear]

@@Hyde472 You are the problem

[@OfffTheGoop]

I think its crazy that instead of playing the other 36 Killers or survivor, Skull Merchant mains would rather cry and moan. Boo hoo, they got nerfed. It happens in the fgc all the time buddy, you’ll be okay 👍🏼

[@skopsi7539]

They have tried! I'm sure reworking her into a fun playable killer is going to take some more time than simple number changes. So instead of killswitching her for life, this is their solution.

[@mythmage8231]

@@OfffTheGoop In the FGC, your character is at least PLAYABLE. Even Zato-1 or Havik are playable, even if they're insanely bad. Also, bad characters are typically a biproduct of the game's meta not favoring them. This isn't that. This is not only a nerf, but a public execution. Finally, if SM mains wanted to play one of the other 36 Killers, they'd play one of the other 36 Killers.

[@lurkii_721]

I play Skull Merchant without a power, the nerf doesn't affect me.

[@Ttjbois]

The gigachad response

[@OfffTheGoop]

👑

[@lokomoko3442]

Be placing that shit for the undetectable only my guy😂

[@Rauser142]

Stay strong king.

[@Katana314]

Woman with Arm-claw

[@redtheyiffer]

Weird that they killed skull merchant after being way more acceptable when 2 reworks happened but the nurse is still out there without a leash ruining any fun perk or game mechanic because she exists.

[@NicoTheCinderace]

Yeah, they refuse to touch Nurse.

[@Reinami66]

@@NicoTheCinderace They aren't gonna touch nurse because then they'd have to deal with SWF.

[@grassyassy1533]

@@NicoTheCinderaceNurse is a free killer that is also the strongest in the game which is perfect for new players (if they care to learn her). If she wasn’t then dbd would be considered pay to win and new players would quit the game.

[@ericblackwell70]

Good I’m glad and I hope those nurse mains just make the game toxic as possible for yall and I hope when they nerf her yall ass a whole hour just to find games yall deserve it

[@hxpeful_demxn]

Get good bro

[@Shub-Nagruth]

Why the mori are still necessary and useful: - Photobomb - Challenge of previous tomes - Daily - Photobomb - A big help for the adepts, especially for the weakest killer like Wraith, Freddy and Ghostface - Photobomb - A way to respond against a bully team when playing a killer who is far too easily counterable - Photobomb - Showing the new mori of the cosmetic for the survivors on your first match of the day - Trophies based on "kill by our hands"(so = Mori half necessary) - Photobomb For the unknown teleport, on live, with the Blurry Picture, the recovery is 0.85 sec, on the PTB, it's 1.19. Explain me why this is not a nerf ? Same thing, this brake to prevent Edging, is multiplied when you want to cancel, or after using the M2: We are slowed down much more than live, and NO ONE talks about it and it makes me furious. Same shit with Vanishing Box: ok it's strong i'm agree, but 80% on the clone spawning ? Seriously ? Why not 40/50% ? What is the goal BHVR with him ?

[@YingShanLT]

100% agree. I care the most about the mori rework this patch. I just want to mori for the fun of it and have other survivors potentially photobomb.

[@Ashy_Slashy3]

Trophies require kills too

[@the_ghost_orchid]

you forgot photobombs

[@mitchsz]

Do adepts work with moris? I thought it was only hooks. So I could've saved a lot of tries in the past omg

[@YingShanLT]

@@mitchsz All 4 survivors have to die, yeah.

[@SholoGaming]

I still feel like they only kept the mori offerings because they’re the only way to burn an ultra rare offering, which gives an achievement

[@zhi_long]

thats sounds good 😂​@DougStuff99

[@SlasherFrenzy0]

Behavior truly cannot win either way with Skull Merchant. They tried to rework, buff and nerf her. Literally nothing works with her balance or reputation. Her design is simply rotten to the core. I truly, truly think this is what happened: Behavior is trying to give her character a "full reset". Meaning that they hope that, with time, the player base forgets about Merchant's reputation as a killer you just disconnect the second you see her. It's almost like a meme at this point. All the while, they are going to rework get from the ground up, which would also explain the large time window. Not like anyone has a good idea of how to fix Merchant on a quick and easy manner. A total rework is the only think that might salvage the character. But I truly do think this is all mostly to try to fight the absurd disconnect rates they are probably seeing with Skull Merchant in particular.

[@testing-gn8vj]

Tend to agree it's about DCs. DCs are extremely common nowadays, but against SM it's virtually a guarantee in the games I play at least. As you hit on the design is the issue, she had a lot going on with her kit and the games were generally very miserable to play because the strengths in her kit are both frustrating, varied, and make the game take forever. A complete redesign is needed.

[@NicoTheCinderace]

@@testing-gn8vj +1. I'm an outsider looking in, and even I agree that SM needs a complete redesign. This is just completely missing the damn point with the nerfs.

[@PistolSlinginMothMan]

She’s just an utter failure in basically every way. Her power sucks, her design (base outfit anyway) sucks, her lore sucks. I’m amazed they ever released her, but I guess they have to push SOMETHING out every 3 months

[@demifolk8940]

@@NicoTheCinderacehow can you give a +1 when you never even played against her, and im assuming DBD as well. that makes no sense

[@Monfisher]

I actually think these nerfs in the short term are abysmal and kill her viability. However, it is necessary PR in the long run. She will suck so bad that people will stop DC’ing and when her rework comes around, the stigma against her will be mostly gone.

[@theotherauthor740]

my two cents about the skull merchant nerf: this is why i hate the precedent that bhvr have set for THEMSELVES that they HAVE to release new dlc every quarter. if they had the balls to skip or delay chapters when they were clearly rushed & broken, this whole situation could have been avoided. now you have a bunch of players who have spent real money on SM and have spent real hours leveling her up who have essentially been ripped off, and that’s simply unfair and unethical for a business to do, period. tools of torment should have been delayed after its mess of a PTB and SM reworked completely before she was even released.

[@vapelordthenord8235]

out of all the chapters only ONE is bad. Fuck you i love the new chapters shout out my nigga dracula

[@Atomik0468]

Unfortunately that would've caused them to not get as much money as they did because of the initial release hype, generates a lot of money that would otherwise be missed. Sadako was revealed like over a month before she came out and by the time she did, not many people bought the dlc because she was already old news on release. As bad as it is, the game exists to make them money so they'll greed however they can.

[@bossplayer_1557]

Yea they just nuked her power into the ground i bought a skin for her when she first came out😢 now she's a whole different character that I didn't pay for

[@boringmonkey6958]

Do we hold this same energy for licenced Survivor perks that get nuked for the sake of lowering pick rates? Like genuinely... Not even being sarcastic here. People pay real money for licenced perks (unless they show up in the Shrine by pure luck), and I don't see anywhere NEAR this level of outrage when they get nerfed into the ground. Sure, people complain like they always do, but the sheer level of baby tantrums I am seeing over the SM nerfs is genuinely pathetic. The entitlement is unreal.

[@Katana314]

I agree with the bad pressure around needing to release something new every few months. That kind of deadline atmosphere must be terrible for the creative process, and I hate that the internet has mandated it. That said, I also agree with boringmonkey - that everyone who pays for content in this game needs to be ready for the possibility of rebalancing/nerfs. It happens plenty of times to perks on either side.

[@viardzen]

the real crime of this patch is losing the blood rush plot twist god combo

[@Dem0crazye]

No more self disable

[@LayZKimochi420BlazeIt]

dramathurgy + blood rush + plot twist my beloved

[@romanlaton3921]

I honestly think it would be fine for moris to stay the same AND have the finisher mori, idk that doesnt see bad

[@coloneltophat7850]

People are vastly overstating the Blurry Photo change for Unknown because they don't know how the math works. Old TP recovery with blurry photo was NOT .85 seconds (1.7/2), it's 1.13 seconds (1.7/1.5). Blurry Photo is like Botany Knowledge, it increases the recovery rate, not cutting total time. New blurry photo is 1.4/1.15 for a 1.22 second TP recovery. The difference is less than a tenth of a second between Live and PTB. I've also seen many people think he moves slower while holding M2, there were 0 changes to the movespeed values. The cancellation window triggering a slowdown is 0.07 seconds instead of 0.2 now. Regardless, the M2 fake still exists so task failed successfully?

[@Daddix0]

I play unknown a ton and blurry photo on PTB was notably far shittier feeling, and I went in expecting it to feel the same as before. Immediate “eughhh” feeling.

[@Daddix0]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHyaY4iXhMqVnK8 I FULLY get the math, I think about DBD math a lot, but I refuse to believe this is a

[@coloneltophat7850]

@@Daddix0 The math simply does not lie. It feels slower because it is slower. A 0.084 second difference might take getting used to, but as an unknown player I don't think it will reduce my ability to get hits with the hallucinations. I still think the other changes are unnecessary, my point is that people are saying Blurry Photo has been nerfed by as much as half a second. The full TP calculation includes a 0.3 second teleport time and a 1.7 second recovery currently. 1.7/1.5 with blurry photo is 1.133 as I've said, add the .3 teleport time and it takes you 1.433 seconds to move again after hitting control. New teleport recovery of 1.4 seconds divided by 1.15 to account for new blurry photo gives us 1.217, add the 0.3 teleport time and it takes you 1.517 seconds to move again after hitting control. You can also play without Blurry Photo now. I welcome you to point out any errors.

[@Daddix0]

@@coloneltophat7850 That math is no longer accurate at this point, there is likely a difference in the way the addon is coded, being a % reduction rather than a % added to the recovery charges per second. Putting my two clips before/after in video software, the difference in movement recovery was well over 0.084 seconds. Either there is an error or the addon's application has been recoded, which would not be the first time. It is just simply not the case that the difference is that miniscule, which makes sense given it feels far greater than a 0.08 second difference in-game.

[@coloneltophat7850]

@@Daddix0 It would be nice if they had tried to swing or use UVX in the linked video, or included a timer. The difference could be due to the speed curve being slightly longer, making it appear more sluggish on wakeup despite still being able to do actions. I'm not going to assume BHVR made changes they didn't state they made.

[@kjl8902]

Oing this differently again

[@aflyingstarly5535]

The only thing I can say about Skull merchant. It is a paid for dlc, even if you farmed it with iridescent the fact that they are essentially removing a killer from a game that some people paid for it’s a bad practice. •Do I agree with her being reworked ? -Yes! •Do I think she should have ever launched in the way she did and taken the time it has to deal with her is crazy? -Of course Just something I think is bad about these changes.

[@Leonlonnyluv]

This is my idea for how to change mori's IF I were forced to do it! 1.) Make most mori's base kit: • if there is 1 survivor left in the trial they can be moried • if the killer has 8 hooks and 0 kills they gain the ability to mori all survivors 2.) Each type of mori offering would reward you more blood points depending on how the survivor was moried: • Cyprus mori-You get Bloodpoints if you mori a survivor that trial • Ivory Mori- You get Bloodpoints if you mori a survivor + a BONUS amount of bloodpoints if you sacrificed all other survivors before the mori (aka no escapes) • Ebony Mori-you get bloodpoints for every mori + a BONUS amount of bloodpoints if you kill ALL survivors with a mori

[@vapelordthenord8235]

really like the 8 hook thing bro may be spitting

[@Atomik0468]

This would be a bit too strong with specific late game builds, as nerfed as it is NOED would be really strong with this. Killers could run a late game perk build and just 8 hook everyone. A half decent killer will keep mental count of who's been hooked how many times. I get it's a rough idea not a fleshed out concept but that's the only thing that doesn't seem like a great idea. The offerings thing is great though, anything for more BP

[@marooned1007]

​​@@Atomik0468Ok but 8 hooking everyone is already playing extremely nice and gives the survivors an advantage, since getting rid of a survivor as fast as possible is always the best way to slow the game down

[@kidscast5842]

@@Atomik0468 you can just bring an ebony Mori in the current patch anyway though and Mori people on their death hook without this 8 hook requirement?

[@Atomik0468]

@@kidscast5842 That's about to change so your point is what?

[@potato_dbd]

"Predator is OP on Nurse" My brother in Christ, everything's OP on Nurse

[@zexulia]

Personally i hate the amount of power creep there is in Aura perks. Before, the strongest aura read required you to get a hook, but now you can basically have wallhacks on survivors 24/7 instead of needing to have awareness or ears. There's a reason Distortion became so overused and its because every match at average and above MMR is full of aura spam with Nowhere to Hide Lethal and now it'll be Zanshin

[@iHateHandlesGetRidOfThis]

When i played the game the strongest aura reading ability was picking freddy. anybody outside your terror radius who was asleep would have their aura permanently revealed to you until they entered your terror radius or woke up.

[@HoneyDog]

I don’t think those are great examples. Zanshin tactics, lethal pursuit and NWTH all serve specific purposes that really aren’t that oppressive. Lethal pursuit’s active ability only triggers once during the match, and just helps get the first chase started. Zanshin tactics is a worse version of Windows, and good killers can tell what is in a tile by just looking at it anyways. No Where To Hid just ensures people can’t camp around generators, and requires you to go out of your way to kick a generator. The reason these perks aren’t that bad is because the simply encourage chases, that’s all. At the end of the day, the best survivors in the game are delaying the killer through chase, not through hiding. Being chased is the survivors primary way of prolonging the game, and good survivors don’t have to worry about aura reading finding them as much because they’re ready to stall. The new perk is different, cause it’s like a better I’m all ears, but those three perks you listed specifically are bad examples of powercrept perks. They’re all pretty in line and balanced.

[@tloyp2584]

@@HoneyDog i think you're undervaluing lethal pursuer as it was very popular before it even got buffed to work with other aura perks. your first chase is your most important and lethal guarantees you waste the least amount of time possible. it has such a large impact on the outcome of the entire match. and zanshin is not just the killer's version of windows now. it gives aura (for 10 damn seconds) just for a survivor dropping a pallet or standing near a dropped pallet near you.

[@HoneyDog]

@@tloyp2584 Ah, right. Zanshin got changed, I suppose I confused it for an entirely new perk. Yeah, sounds pretty damn good. Still doesn’t mean other aura perks are busted or need changing though. Yeah lethal gets you the first chase, but that first chase could be an awful one where 2 generators are repaired; it’s up to the survivor. Some killers also start the game at their weakest, like nemesis, or don’t need a quick chase, like hag or trapper. It isn’t a catch all perk like old pop or ruin, and still requires the killer to put in effort to get value, because they still gotta actually down a survivor. +2 seconds to aura never was never really oppressive because up until now there hasn’t been any really broken aura reading perks on the killers side. The most useful for chase is I’m all ears, but even that one has a long cooldown, and doesn’t help in a lot of scenarios (like survivors hopping into shack).

[@MightyJabroni]

I honestly hate everything, that is close quarters aura reading. It completely cooks the mind-gaming aspect in chases, if one side can simply just see the other. There is a reason, why "subtle" cheaters bring wallhacks. And shoehorning more aura reading crap into the game just gives them all kinds of plausible deniability.

[@arcarc2663]

People are missing that survivors are going to be able to counter-grief killers with the finisher mori system/new mori offerings. Obviously it promotes slugging for the 4K, which is bad, but let's say the person that you hooked isn't on death hook? They're going to hold on for the full 70 seconds plus the entity death animation to force the killer (and other survivor) to sit there and wait for it. Or worse, if they're on their first hook, 140 seconds. Two and a half minutes that survivors can force killers to sit and wait, possibly denying the mori bonus, and after slugging for the 4K, that's absolutely going to happen. People will sit in lockers for an hour to deny Evil Within. They are 100% going to force killers to wait out the entire hook timer knowing that the killer wants to use it. Everybody is going to be miserable here.

[@uhhrobin506]

i dont think anyone cares that much about a mori, both killer and survivor...

[@droog101]

I mean im definately going to. If they want to slug for the 4k im going to make them wait the whole time and feel good about it.

[@SweetLeavesXbox1]

@uhhrobin506 It's been a core aspect of the game since release. If Behavior nerfs that.... Nostalgia... for literally no reason.... its time to play other games. Behavior has lost my interest 100% This isn't DBD, idk wtf that game is anymore.

[@TheEpicPancake]

@@uhhrobin506 You have NEVER played this game. This is the same game that had hatch standoffs. As this guy stated, people will already sit in lockers for days to deny the Evil Incarnate achievement, and killer players will just eat that shit as a cost of doing business. When presented with mutually assured destruction, DBD players dig their heels in and prepare for the cold war. It's going to cause problems.

[@Katana314]

We already unfortunately see some of that when 3rd player is hooked, 4th is slugged, and the killer wants to give them the hatch.

[@DrakoWulf]

When Skull Merchant was first announced, and we knew she was a drone-based killer, I was really hoping that her drones would be moving observation tools. I find it very strange that they ended up being stationary debuffing tools, when the obvious drone theme is right there for them to use. As is, she's more of a pylon-based killer instead of a drone-based killer.

[@justin4203]

Predator is bad for the game, as it punishes survivors for a good play. New Distortion should probably have stacks, and you get stacks for escaping chase rather than being in the terror radius of the killer.

[@Garresh1]

I don't play Skull Merchant much. But how many setup killers are there in the game? Not many. Outright removing one is terrible on multiple levels even if you don't play as Skull Merchant. Also, I've seen other devs start down this road of reworking everything some people decide isn't fun. It eventually leads to everything being samey and boring. It's not a good idea to support this change because it will lead to worse things.

[@oodanna500]

not even this distortion nerf can stop me from being a rat!!! ill run shadowstep now!!! (proceeds to have the absolute worst totem spawns ever, no boon area coverage, and some totems just in the middle of nowhere with nothing blocking sight of it)

[@anthonymazzeo6123]

Hex:Devour player looking at you: “First time?”

[@Sekavuus]

Not to mention the totem is loud af, so it's easy to spot and takes just a second to get rid of 😂

[@SpikeBarren]

I mean with everything else that they done to the game. They really can’t mess this game up much more

[@bubblegod8889]

I don't think distortion should be as changed as it was. It's useful and can be used for different reasons other than being a rat. I can't explain how many times distortion countered BBQ and allowed me to finish a gen. People act like distortion was only used by rats who had a rat playstyle.

[@zeepakman6885]

And it was the only way to counter no where to hide such a strong perk. In general getting Aura read is super dangerous and against a lot of top tier killers the only way to win is if your not in a pro swf is not getting found by the killer. Classic example being Nurse running nowhere to hide literally nothing you can do about it.

[@djphatman2153]

I honestly think Distortion should be a hybrid of what we have now. Keep the 3 tokens but make it so that you only get them in chase. No need to go this direction at all.

[@corvusaurem]

​@@djphatman2153 or refill them based on unhooks or gen progress etc. Any required playing to regain them. Max of 3 tokens. Anti rat instantly. Making it gen progress required would incentivise the vast majority of distortion users which are gen jockies who work on gens as their friends loop the killer. And would incentivize soloq to not hide doing nothing all match.

[@beforegrim]

@@djphatman2153 i think it should be in the middle where its 2 tokens

[@kevinrocks77]

I'll be brave and admit it. I've always enjoyed playing skull merchant and I think she is seen so rarely that they should just keep her how she is until their later change for her.

[@bossplayer_1557]

Yea nerfing her into the ground is lame ASF until they "rework her"

[@MrDCHun]

no thanks, you ruined our fun - now its time for yours to be ruined. I'm sure you'll still play her till her rework in 2025/2026, right?! ;)

[@kevinrocks77]

@@MrDCHun I wouldn't say my life is ruined it's just a game. However I feel it sets a bad precedent.

[@Fikrikool]

Overcome, Lucky Break, Quick and Quiet and Iron Will is now countered by the new Predator. Unless the perk is on cooldown, the Survivor has to hide within 5 seconds of running before escaping chase or change out Quick and Quiet to Distortion.

[@axpekt_]

🤫 don’t speak facts too loud. Countering all perks with one is only okay if the killer does it.

[@humbletotodile]

Everybody and their grandmother: DELETE SKULL MERCHANT *Devs nerf her into the void Community: shocked pikachu face

[@Katana314]

It's very likely two different groups. Most people I imagine are fine with Skull Merchant being deleted - I can imagine there being a very vocal minority that wants her to be 'something' though.

[@joshsquidlyburgh5820]

​@@Katana314 Anyone who's ok with a character being borderline unplayable is a baby who shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on balance

[@darksungwynevere8726]

Maybe I"m weird but one thing I liked about old zanshin and predator, they're some of the very few perks that survivors cannot detect whatsoever (+ discordance, whispers and spies, deerstalker and bloodhound)

[@cryst4l_clear456]

Discordance you can absolutely pick up on. It's hard, but you can

[@Atomik0468]

Discordance is pretty easy to tell if you have more than 100 hours of survivor, or if you're a new survivor that uses it as a killer

[@Leaf__22]

You can pick up on all those perks except predator and zanshin. Amazing examples lol

[@Darkliff2]

usual gut the killer instead of balnce it cause BHVR literally has no idea what they are doing and DBD was a fucking fluke, just look at every single thing else they've done

[@NewSirenSong]

Not really sure if you'll read this, but on the distortion front, it being limited to one charge/token/activation at a time while aura reading is so ever present and easily accessible and having no potential for extending the protection provided by the perk may turn to be problematic. A distortion style sound effect when most effects read your aura would go a long way to helping survivors prepare for a potentially upcoming chase. Leaving distortion on the three token system but changing the recharging method would have been far more acceptable in the current aura reading environment. Leaving aura denial to inefficient avenues like shadow step and lockers, and conditional requirements like off the record while perks like nowhere to hide encourage are achieved naturally over the couse of the game with no proper internal cooldown or significant that isnt already giving you a benefit. Opening a locker is more inconvenient, less practical in application, and has a proper cooldown (darkness revealed). The cost to reward ratio between aura reading and aura denial is too skewed to aura reading. Especially when many killers deny aura reading on the survivor side passively without the use of a perk. I would love to potentially hear any thoughts and opinions regarding my take.

[@firstlast9710]

Stops talking about mori nonsense around 9:00 I'd suggest starting the vid there

[@pew3836]

Thanks

[@genesisosuna]

It's nonsense but because the community themselves have made it a way bigger issue than it truly is. It's just a bunch of killer mains crying that they can't mori everyone anymore (except tombstone Myers users)

[@bootyclap69k]

@@genesisosunaMoris weren’t even strong, and often times they were actually worse than just hooking someone

[@jihokim788]

@@genesisosuna Classic elitist.

[@kolbayada4938]

​@@genesisosuna archive challenges exist.

[@asaiguess4491]

(Probably should've left this rant on Reddit but I hate Reddit) I use distortion both in chase and to figure out what aura reading the killer is running so I know why a killer randomly heads my direction after a hook, or kicking a gen, ect. instead of just assuming "oh it must be bbq". (I use it both in SWF and solo queue because I like being able to figure out the killer build early either way). I'm probably dropping it completely if the change goes through because one charge at a time will just not be worth it unless the killer is only using one aura reveal. My preferred change would have been it still has tokens, but instead of charging the tokens while in terror radius but not in a chase, it's just charge tokens while in a chase. Maybe slower rate of charge, maybe knock it down to 2 or 3 tokens. That way if you use it to rat, you get some rat tokens and then you have to be in chase a certain amount of time to even get 1 back, so you really have to run the killer and not rat to get all your rat tokens back. Meanwhile for people like me, I can pinpoint the killer perks like I currently do, and to get more uses I just have to get into chase. Also unlike the way it currently is, I can reliable use it in chase because I can get tokens back in chase. If they had just left it mostly the same and made gaining tokens be while in chase instead of in terror radius I'd be so happy. It might would even lose it's rat status allowing me to not get called a rat for using it. PTB version is just "yeah you can't rat with this perk now because it's garbage". In fact I'd argue getting it back up just for starting a chase instead of after a certain amount of time in chase makes it still a rat perk because you hide, it goes down, next time they aura read they actually see you, they "start a chase" which is them finding you right away, downing you, hooking you, and then you have rat perk back up so you can hide another time. Having it charge by being in chase an amount of time would incentivize running actual chases instead of just starting a "chase". But if it was only 1 use and charged like that, it'd be more garbage than it already is in PTB, so 2 or 3 charges would be a must to go along with that. Anyway just my 2 cents, I get called a rat a lot for running distortion despite not actually ratting so I welcome a change to make it less ratty, but one charge per chase just kills it for me because if the killer has chase aura reading they're usually using it multiple times per chase (Or it get's hard countered by predator) meanwhile the non chase aura reading like bbq, I will get the benefit once and then have to either stop working on my gen and force a chase to get another token (Killing the value of not getting seen) or keep working my gen and just know "Well I'll get my next token here in a minute but if I don't finish the gen before then I probably wasted my time working on it" (Killing the value of not getting seen, unless whoever they go after first is competent) I'm tired I should be sleeping instead of typing this, sorry if this was nonsense

[@swiftkick852]

The issue with Jund's argument is two-fold. First, he says that he doesn't like rat behavior game play because it's boring and yet, tunneling is perfectly legal (and also boring) and is something that survivors have to "deal with." ArEn'T tHeRe PeRkS fOr ThAt? Well, there is one perk that counters spammy aura reading: Distortion. Second, in the same sentence, Jund praises this perk for becoming an anti-aura reading/chase but also says that it doesn't force survivors into a certain way of playing. If the purpose of the perk is to be used simply for chase and nothing else, then it forces survivors to play a certain way. Distortion as it was already did what you think this perk will become AND limited the amount of times you were able to use it (the three tokens). In order to gain tokens, you had to be near the killer which added a sense of risk. It worked in chase and out of chase which made it flexible. The issue here is simply Jund not liking a certain play style. It's the same type of complaining that survivors make when it comes to tunneling. He's made videos showing survivors how easy it is to create an anti-tunnel build with an attempt to define what tunneling is. Where are the videos showing killers how to deal with "rats"? It appears that survivors need to "get gud" with tunneling but killers can't seem to come to terms with stealth game play.

[@ScottJund]

I mean your argument is based on the fact I think tunneling is boring when I absolutely love getting tunneled

[@swiftkick852]

@@ScottJund Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure what you mean by that. I never said that (nor did I assume that). I did say that you've made videos trying to address the tunneling issue which clearly means you don't feel that way so I'm confused why you would infer that. There was a video that you made not too long ago about behaviors that you liked (or didn't like? I don't remember. I tried looking through your videos to link it here. I know you have it hahahaha). It was a tier list. Not one positive survivor behavior made it to the top of the list. To be fair, it's been some time since I've seen the video so it's possible that I'm misremembering. Regardless, I think it's clear from your content that you side more with killer which is fine. My position is simply that there is a justification of one behavior over another and the celebration of (what will certainly become) a useless perk because you find "rat" game play boring.

[@shreddyz]

The only playstyle being affected by the distortion change is the "hide and do nothing" playstyle, and that playstyle absolutely needs to be discouraged. It doesn't just make the game less fun for killers, it actively makes the game less fun for other survivors too. Distortion as it is now forces the killer to go after survivors who aren't running distortion. If you want to counter aura reading without having to be in chase, run object.

[@uhhrobin506]

​@@shreddyzi mean distortion was really usefull when doing objectives, too, imo. Which is now heavily nerfed. I dont really like the change since that perk alone made the game soooo much less stressfull that i could actually relax and have fun for a bit without being paranoid. I only have 110 hours so im not very good. But I see that this is a very unpopular experience, im still sad my fav perk got this big of a nerf but for players with higher mmr it'll be a good change!

[@MightyJabroni]

@@shreddyz Distortion was garbage anyway. I have a stealth build and I never used Distortion. Tried it once against a Knight, who was heavy on the aura reading and all my three stacks were gone within 90 seconds or so (if even that). XD Plus, there is a massive risk with playing super stealthy, because when you get found, you will most likely be well outta position. So just pussyfooting around is not the way to go anyway. I typically use my stealth build (Urban, Calm Spirit, Iron Will + one flex perk) to initiate chases on my terms and get discretely from A to B, when the killer is nearby.

[@labow12]

"The mori change encourages slugging!!!" and "WGLF is way too strong" in the same post is really funny

[@Footballfan896]

I think Pixelbush made a good point when he said that Skull Merchant’s problem isn’t that she’s good, but that she’s easy to play. She doesn’t need to be made weaker, but needs to be more challenging to play. I feel like Pixel has good ideas on how to make her more fun to play as and against, making her more challenging, but also more rewarding. Right now, players can throw up a drone and survivors don’t know how to play against it. Skull Merchant needed changes, but these missed the mark. Hopefully her rework makes her more fun to play as and against.

[@nisvwo6445]

I think her drones only having one beam is actually a good thing, the only thing i don't like is the huge hinder nerf and the removal if stealth drones. Hinder needed to be nerfed but not this much, and the stealth drones were completely fine imo. Removing her haste from scans is also good in my opinion.

[@p2c331]

@@nisvwo6445 yeah the haste needed to go but all the other nerfs were unnecessary

[@nisvwo6445]

@@p2c331 i think removing one scan beam is actually good, gives skull merchant more skill expression with rotating the drones in chase

[@StanTwiceZ]

I’m 100% fine with the mori change solely because I have seen too often, killers tunnelling someone at the start of the game to get the mori.

[@SweetLeavesXbox1]

Changing the Mori really pisses me off. Usually defend Behavior for being so consistent with content but this idea isn't necessary and ruins nostalgia for nearly no reason. I REFUSE to favor bloodpoints over Moris. We get so many BP multipliers just playing the game naturally. We get BP by codes. Daily Challenges, tombs, rift, events. We are losing a core aspect thats been apart of the game since release. Nerfed twice already, The offering is perfectly balanced.

[@RaeMelantha]

i guess my biggest issue here is that i don't use distortion to rat, i use it to avoid the 40 aura reading perks/addons to actually do gens/rescue, and i still take chase plenty. i dunno. the rat stereotype is kind of annoying when it's not what i use it for. if it was changed to at least tell me when my aura was being read i'd take that instead.

[@NewSirenSong]

I definitely get that, I recommend swapping to object of obsession, you see them when they see you. Unfortunately it doesn't help against stealth killers, which I feel isn't precisely fair against anyone but mirror myers since he's so bad at chase. I think working on the condition that they try to see you first is enough to bypass the undetectable status for the duration.

[@Emmetlovesredvelvet13]

I think personally, there are only 3 problematic things from the patch now having time to mull it over and test it out 1. Corrective action hyperfocus combo leading to a gen being done in 30 seconds or less is extremely bad even if it requires a coordinated team it's still extremely easy to set up and to pull off and it cannot go to live. And no offense scott They are that dumblook how long that took them to finally got made for this or killswitch the seizure issue with trickster You're giving them wy too much credit 2. Quick gambit needs a minor tweak to stop people from predrop pattying to abuse it as it's bad for both sides it's bad for killer because their being punished heavily for chasing and it's bad for survivor because them doing this eats a bunch of necessary resources for the rest of the team to survive 3. The absolute gutting of skull merchant as well as the knee capping to unknown twins and billy sets a hugely negative precedent that any killer with a remote level of negative attention can be given the Freddy treatment at anytime. And in terms of unknown twins and billy you don't even need to be problematic just annoying and you'll get gutted.

[@theurbanreanimator7244]

Kneecapping billy? Hes perfectly fine still what the hell

[@grald1195]

Blood they are not gutting the twins it's a 5-second cooldown increase when Victor gets kicked and it's just back to 3 seconds on the recovery time which is what it used to be before they did that stupid ass 5 second cooldown that made twins so clunky for so many years

[@timothybyrne7698]

I’ve tried unknown and he doesn’t really feel any different people have been exaggerating this change wayyy too much. 😂 Edit: I like the new distortion

[@Obama_Hunter]

20:00 it was the same with original PTB CoH, if you have 4 people grouped up and with the right perks you can infinitely 3 man a downed survivor before a killer can recover

[@clarkesteinman5098]

27:52, not a knock to Scott, (who was literally coming up with a build off the top of his head,) but Overcome would cancel Iron Will (exhaustion).

[@ScottJund]

U right use lucky star

[@Hurin_Thalion_Khador]

more genrush perks PLEASE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH OF IT IN GAME

[@itsyaboidroop157]

Fun fact, every original female killer has their twos out. Not skully though

[@MightyJabroni]

So you found the feet video. Welcome to the inner circle!

[@saph5722]

Legion

[@wamblyuni]

Solo Q is UNPLAYABLE right now.

[@boiiiiiii5741]

Killer is unplayable against swf rn

[@wamblyuni]

@@boiiiiiii5741 doesn’t take away from my point.

[@revenge3265]

Skull Merchant being borderline unplayable already makes this a top 10 patch.

[@MightandLight]

Agreed, hope they nerf her again

[@quietboygonewild]

Mori offerings SHOULD change so that with Cyprus you are able to mori 2 survivors, ivory 3 survivors and ebony 4 survivors so that you are able to get 10000 per mori. The reason why they kept SM as is is monetary reasons. Since she's now part of a bundle pack it doesn't matter if she gets bought so might as well nerf her. The reason why I think skull merchant is a scam killer now is because she has one of the coolest outfits in the game, however if you give money towards her cosmetics she is useless as a killer, therefor the money you invested in her won't see the light of day. The only reason she isn't kill switched is because they could face legal issues if you buy content that isn't available so instead they nerfed her.

[@dankenstein528]

I don't see why they can't just refund people who bought the skull merchant DLC. "That will cost us money" Oh well, don't be stupid and you won't have that happen. Happens to far bigger devs like CDPR and Rocksteady when they weren't crap. I doubt it would bankrupt them or even be a sizeable financial hit. Hell, be super cheap and just give people auric cells.

[@Candidopp]

That's a compromise I'm willing to deal with but I highly doubt they would do that SM is universally disliked and unfortunately the majority play her in a sweaty unfun way . Just hit and run, sweating for the 4k and being toxic

[@Katana314]

I'm going to guess the cost of conducting a refund is WAYY more than the sum cost of all the money people spent on her. Consider how many platforms that DLC was released on, how many people got her via codes / whatever else, it gets complicated.

[@FatherAntithetical]

Solution: Have the mori offerings BP bonus trigger on final mori OR hatch escape. Now you have no reason at all to slug for the 4k and it just becomes a neat thing to use sometimes. Also yes, make the BP bonus's like, 25/50/75k.

[@scarecrowscene443]

Sure Zanshin is a bit too strong but I just think it's funny that survivors have a multitude of ways of tracking the killer and seeing their aura even mid chase but god forbid killers have one perk where they can track you mid chase

[@FrankieFrak-Frakityfranker]

I'm all ears being slept on

[@ThePowerofCutleries]

@@FrankieFrak-Frakityfranker Which is hilarious to me, because I'm All Ears is genuinely one of the strongest chase perks in the game. It's sooo good on multiple killers.

[@NewSirenSong]

Evading the person can who can stop you from playing is far more important than the reverse. It is good for killers to have conditional perks that reveal auras during chase but there should be a notification on both sides that it is happening either way and I wouldn't take that away. However I believe perks like nowhere to hide and the ilk are problematic, especially when the counterplay for them is either inefficient, inconvenient, or highly conditional. I truly believe the power of perks like that are too easily accessible for the value they provide. I would love to hear your take on it though!

[@p2c331]

"Zashin is strong on killers you shouldnt throw pallets against"

[@eldrono3317]

At this point Bhvr should grab Nurse and put her in a completely different gamemode because she's always the reason most killers cant have good stuff

[@MaximusAutismus]

In this video, Vile scott. Great video.

[@julietheghost9607]

I just want people who hate SM to have some empathy. You don't have to like her, you don't have to find playing against her fun, but celebrating the effective deletion of a character they haven't even tried to balance since her first rework? That's not healthy game design and it's needlessly spiteful. Stop labeling all SM players as toxic or only using her for easy dubs or whatever and understand that people are allowed to be upset that they are losing a character they enjoy playing.

[@dr.dripton]

Can be seen from the other side too let people be happy that an extremely flawed killer is gone too

[@mr.catface-2635]

I'm not saying everyone who plays her is toxic, im saying she is the worst experience to play against in the game, without question and by a considerable margin. Its crazy and pathetic that BHVR decided to just gut her instead of trying to fix her, but I cannot be sad in the slightest that shes gone.

[@JohnSmith-u6j]

You decide to main one of the most unhealthy characters in the game, and you ask for empathy? Bulls**t. Take this massive L

[@julietheghost9607]

@@dr.dripton I mean, you're still going to run into players who play her (I'm going to keep playing her because I like her) and she hasn't changed enough to actually get rid of the stuff you hate (In fact this nerf removes her trap placement gameplay and incentivizes just lazily dropping a drone in a loop) So I don't think this will actually make you that much happier if the only thing you dislike about her is her boring counterplay. Like be honest, people will still go next against her even if she's the most dogshit character in the game because they just hate that she exists period

[@julietheghost9607]

@@JohnSmith-u6j Any character can be played in an unhealthy way, and any character can be played in a healthy way. I play her because she's the first new trap based character we got in 6 years and hag and trapper don't do what she does. Again, assuming I'm playing SM in bad faith is a weird take (also nurse is more unhealthy in my opinion, SM is low B tier at best, SM is just easier to pick up and play)

[@elastico8576]

My opinion to all this is: 1. Make the moris also grant +25%, +50% and +75% bloodpoints in all categories in addition to the bloodpoint bonus for the finishing mori. This way the iridescent mori is definitely better than the yellow soup or green bloody party streamers without changing the complete playstyle of the killer (the additional % is separated from the flat bonus for the mori). 2. Corrective action could be changed to only start with 1 stack and have a maximum of 3 stacks + a mechanic that prevents two users of corrective action to stack their perk up to infinity. For example a corrective action great skillcheck could be uniquely named and having the effect of not stacking up corrective action. Alternatively it could be changed to 1 stack with a maximum of 3 stacks and instead of providing great skillchecks to teammates, it corrects both your and their failed skillchecks to good ones, so it can also be picked if you yourself mess up some skill checks from time to time. 3. I agree with a shorter duration or cooldown, but 1 second is too little xD. Before that BHVR should try half the duration when they release it. 4. While skull merchant is a hated killer with only a small amount of players they definitely handled the situation poorly. Instead of all these nerfes, essentially killing her. They could have just went with a smaller version to just make her more bearable. Like decreasing her hindered effects from 10% to 6% and decreasing her haste from 3/5/6/7% to 2/3/3.5/4%. This would increase survivors odds to escape from chases while also keeping skull merchants current playstyle and identity. 5. I don't have alot of experience of playing against Unknown but do have some playing as Unknown. And let me tell you that the brown add-on feels so necessary to make the gameplay feel smooth. Problem with these changes is, Unknown with his speed build up when teleporting is too slow, it feels like dredge prior to his decent buff. And the change to his UVX could possibly make him feel clunky like the old plague with her puke charging. In summary I am not fond of the UVX nerf, and the teleporting speed build up change should be have been more balanced like with dredge and dracula, the usual treatment of taking an quality-of-life add-on, cutting it pretty much in half and adding the other half to base kit. For example, decrease the "Teleport movement speed Recovery" from the current 1.7 seconds down to 1.25 and cut the add-on from 50% to 25%. If you still take it you used to have a recovery of 0.85 seconds and now have one of 0.94 seconds. So the brown add-on still would be decent but not feel like a must have anymore, Unknown players would now consider taking other add-ons instead. 6. Uh no? Even if you take the buffed WGLF, Botany knowledge and we'll make it, the 300% extra speed will not allow you to immediately pick someone up from the ground. The killer will have enough time to down you, they just need to reconsider slugging if they notice your pick up build. Also, now you commited 3 out of 4 perks to healing and are weak in other areas, it's balanced. 7. I didn't know about this bug, noir do I care. They will probably have it fixed for the life-version. 8. That's fine, then it is a beginner friendly perk as it should be since it's a teachable perk from a base-unlocked easy-to-play killer. Now it just does what it is supposed to do, help you keep track of survivors. You can also use this strategically to end a chase and get the information to mindgame or to use the information later on and end the chase now. It's just important to watch the numbers, perhabs predator will turn out a bit too strong or weak. 9. Distortion should have been changed a long time ago in regards to doing important stuff to get stacks back, but I am not quite happy with the new version. I think having a maximum of two stacks and getting them back with Chase, Gen progress and healing would have been better. Like maybe a total of 20 seconds in chase, 40% of a gen, 120% of total healing for a stack, and you can combine the three methods to charge the stacks, but you actually need to do something to reclaim them, not hide.

[@usedhalfcart]

another long video made specifically for me!!!! love them scott ty for the actual discussion on this patch

[@westcoast9158]

37:00 That's definitely just a problem with what's defined as a "Conspicuous Action" on a killer-to-killer basis

[@saintpaddywhack]

I never liked merchant since release, but now I REALLY don't like merchant more. The fact that she's getting probably has gotten the most attention out of any character in terms of drastic changes, meanwhile killers who are ACTUALLY out of date and NEEDS reworks/major buffs don't get any. BHVR says Michael is fine (he's not btw) but skull merchant isn't. Freddy is bad but somehow skull merchant was worse before PTB (she wasn't). By the time twins got their "rework" (it wasn't a rework, just number changes), SM got like 2 reworks in a short life span while it took twins years. This is the main the reason I can't stand looking at skull merchant. it just makes no sense to me why THIS specific killer gets pushed for reworks while there are others that quite literally need the attention way more than she does.

[@MightandLight]

People don't immediately DC or give up on hook against Michael or Freddy, there's the difference. SM winrate went to the atmosphere because everyone gave up, no one wants to play against her. That's why she's a higher priority

[@Katana314]

I'd say aside from taking out the second beam, which wouldn't require much work itself, part of the reason we got this change is that it was likely low development effort. I agree with you though - each patch cycle, they have to think about which killer's focus is actually going to be most interesting for players, not just "most deserved for perfect balance". All else aside, it's a big lesson in the failures of designing a character well for both sides of the match from the start.

[@HeSpeaksFluentJapanese]

The matchmaking in this game needs some serious work. Mixing sweaty players with potatoes who barely know how to press spacebar is making solo queue feel like hell. And the worst part is that you can't get out of a circus of a match. You have to wait there until it ends or get a penalty.

[@Denvigen]

Based scott on SM nerf, I am glad at least one huge creator could put it on record that SM is a totally boring overpowered plague on dbd. Its wild the amount of people telling everyone to "just git gud" against a killer that slows you by 10% and speeds up by 8% when not even a year ago people were whining about a 3. T H R E E percent speed boost for injured players, which for the record, was dumb, but wow.

[@ryannole6138]

A cool idea i think skull merchant should have is having the ability to pause drones rotation for a few second. As well as having the ability have your drone flip scan sides add some skill to her

[@kattcantcat]

I just wish the new Zanshin effect was added on to the old or smth. Like, one IS objectively more useful than the other in most games, but I think the old effect still has its place in the game. Unlike SM

[@HumbleBovine]

They should just make a new general killer perk that has Zanshin's old effect. They haven't added a new general killer perk since Shattered Hope (which came well after the boon meta was even relevant) and the killer players that could use aura reading on pallets and windows the most are beginners who need to figure out map layouts.

[@AcceptedAlexander]

Absolutely hate the distortion change, with all the wallhacks killers have its gonna feel horrible for any stealth plays

[@bossplayer_1557]

For the people that don't engage with the killer sitting across map just hiding doing nothing

[@AcceptedAlexander]

@@bossplayer_1557 nah, just those who do gens and save but like to keep low profile and use rocks and walls to hide, perfectly fine gameplay style

[@cookieking725]

for the mori thing, what if the offering also made the last survivor scream or get crows or something to make slugging for 4k less common.

[@NewSirenSong]

Or just don't let people slug for the 4k. Make it fun, make it a 50/50 instead of a you lose button.

[@anettelma123]

I thought it was a nice change about mori offerings, but I've already seen a roll where someone says that with mori slug under 4k it's the norm and now it will be even more frequent with these offerings. And the change itself and points for mori appeared because in the store you will be able to buy separate mori for killers, so unfortunately the motivation was again money. If this is another issue that will make playing as a survivor even worse, even a +100% role bonus won't solve anything in this case, since you can take ebony mori and still get more points as a killer with a 0% bonus and play for tunnel slug. I'm a little worried, but I hope it's exaggerated. My idea to solve this: Built-in mori should give you the option to kill the 3rd surv for extra points or any (like green) , instead of the last one (like yellow) I had slugging for 4k even in Lights out. Then after leaving the guy for 99% of his bleed out bar he let him wiggle just to kill me yay. Yea sadly its usually this cringe thing that 3rd survivor will be 3-4 minutes on the ground

[@Vulgar_Worlock]

the bad teammates bemoaning the loss of Distortion but saying nothing about Lucky Star speaks volumes as to the character of those who are malding about this patch

[@NewSirenSong]

I think there's a big difference between the rats who use it to do nothing the entire game and the people who want it changed to a multi charge perk that requires you to engage in progressing said game instead of hiding. There are plenty of people who just want rat out for the hatch though. I will say I think aura reading needs an internal cooldown or nerf so it can't be spammed as much

[@loloritopooten]

I agree with your outlook on this patch with one notable exception. The mori finisher system feels like a gratuitous kick in the teeth for me because I love giving hatch. I do it every time I can, it's my favorite feature in the game and it really felt to me like the redeeming quality of the game as a whole, it made it stand out from the mindset of other PvP games. If I understand this new mori system correctly, I will now be completely unable to mori if I give hatch, I now have to entirely give up on a feature I like to preserve my favorite one. I acknowledge that it's a me problem and there might just be an insignificant number of players who think and act like I do. Nevertheless I feel harshly punished just for being compassionate and I fail to see any upsides to the change.

[@eaglesdude25]

Freddy mains be like, “this your first time?” It’s so hilarious seeing seeing Skull merchant mains whine and moan, when the only reason they play SM is to make people miserable. Nothing like getting a taste of your own medicine, eh? Rot in hell.

[@Philscooper]

Besides the sm gutting People have overlooked the entire ptb, ITS NOT THAT BAD

[@infamous5673]

Skull merchant is dead Unknown got unnecessary nerf (what scott wanted) Some perks got overbuffed New synergy that bhvr might fix but might not fix This patch sucks

[@ScottJund]

?? when have i ever asked for an Unknown nerf lmao. i literally wanted him buffed with direct hits

[@infamous5673]

@ScottJund your video on unknown you said and i quote *i think survivors should lose weakened in chase to help new survivors* which is a nerf

[@ScottJund]

​@infamous5673 uh can you link the source because I don't remember saying that. I originally thought reversing how the uvx decreased should be reversed but there's no nerf

[@Chaosrain112]

HELL YES BUDDY CHAPTER IN VIDEO DESCRIPTION.

[@rileyp1506]

"Zanshin is busted on killers you shouldn't throw pallets against"

[@dingus5156]

Yeah like huntress,pyramid head,dark lord where greeding pallets is the play.

[@FriedrichTheGreatest]

As a Nurse main reading "Zanshin is busted on nurse" physically hurt me. Ah yes, dedicating yourself to an animation lock against Nurse, I'm sure that'll go well.

[@p2c331]

exactly

[@theurbanreanimator7244]

I mean you are eventually forced to throw a pallet against alot of the killers its good on aside from nurse, its basically just going to end up as a stronger Im all ears on alot of tiles

[@NameIsDoc]

@@theurbanreanimator7244 and? Lots of perks overlap and are better in different situations.

[@nitro365365]

I'm excited for Scott to do that "heal downed person before killer can down you" Quest again

[@DegrassiKnole]

Counter idea for the Mori: instead of being a raw bloodpoint bonus, when a single survivor is left in the trial by any means, all pallets reset and both the killer and final survivor are teleported to the "center" of the map for a 1v1 chase. The offering correlates to the bloodpoints that either the survivor or killer can earn, as a sort of stake. The longer the survivor can lead the killer on a chase, the more points from the pot the survivor gets, while the killer can claim more of the bloodpoints if they kill the survivor quickly. That way, both the final survivor and the killer are rewarded and have an interesting endgame, instead of the killer slugging to avoid wasting their mori.

[@JozanGame]

A cool concept, for an entirely different game.

[@redtheyiffer]

I disagree. I'm a killer main but when I play survivor, I'd rather find the hatch.

[@thethinkingbox4022]

fuck no, it’s our BP offering either give it to us or go eat dirt. No reason the opposite side should take a portion of MY reward. That’s like “let’s make a cake but only survivors that survive can keep the bonus points” Sharing from a pot is ridiculous, and rewarding the last survivor for the team wasting resources by respawning all downed pallets is just straight up trolling.

[@PandaMontage]

Cool idea

[@SweetLeavesXbox1]

@DegrassiKnole I have over 700 8th year anniversary Cakes. Over 300 yellow cakes. About 60 BPS. All those offering for just Huntress alone. We get BP multipliers for playing the game naturally. Rift, Tombs, Daily Challenges, Codes. I find no purpose in erasing something that's iconic to DBD, for BP. Extremely angry towards this idea. Hope the community feels the same and changes Behaviors ideals for Moris.

[@ThatOneGuy5556]

New mori system is NOT that impactful, so many survivors act like it’s going to insta kill you and the other half thinks that it’s a global mori that triggers when everyone’s downed 😂 really speaks volumes on their skill set

[@pyroronnie2473]

Its just nuking mori’s to now be even more rare to see

[@theurbanreanimator7244]

Are we just inventing new people? Because literally all the worries ive seen about it is that with the new memento offerings its incentivizes slugging, which yeah it kinda does thats a genuine worry

[@DollaSignD]

they should make it so that you can mori the last 2 people on death hook to remove the incentive for slugging ​@@theurbanreanimator7244

[@pocketdust2450]

@@theurbanreanimator7244 Killers already slug for the 4 kills so it doesn't matter if they slug for the mori the exact same way.

[@pugstriker]

​@@pocketdust2450interesting.. because thats what a Dev said and they are all incompetent

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

For gods sake i don’t know why nurse can work with aura reading perks ever. Just remove her ability to see auras its that easy

[@Asin24]

If you are going to nerf a character to be about useless and openly admit it's just a 'we don't know what to do, we will fix it later' solution, just refund people for the character and cosmetics, and maybe even taking the next step and disabling her completely. It's the right thing and the least they could do, after that I don't think there is an issue with it.

[@ScottJund]

thats a ridiculous request. behaviour is not about to throw away a million dollars because a character is underpowered

[@zipzapper0]

​@@ScottJund They really shouldn't just gut a product they sold to people either though. I'm a Pig main and I've seen my fair share of unnecessary nerfs, and I've never seen one this bad before.

[@Ttjbois]

Have you played another video game? Things get gutted and hard nerfed all the time after being problematic for way too long. Your argument is that if a character is nerfed then you are entitled to get a full refund because that character is bad now. They didn't do it with Freddy and nobody complained about him, what makes SM any different?

[@Asin24]

@@Ttjbois The devs literally admitted they nerfed her into the ground so players wouldn't be likely to play her and they would fix her later. How is that like most other games? There is a difference from a character being weak and one that the devs just simply give up on and effectively stop working on completely. IN most games you don't PAY for a character and then have the dev just give up and make them useless. As far as Freddy goes, did they actively admit and nerf him into the ground to be made basically unplayable to fix 'later' or did they just try and fix him and he was just no good and he just happened to be not in a good state? There is a VAST difference with motives between a character happening to be weak and a dev simply giving up on balancing a character and making them purposefully useless, and even MORe of a differnce when that character is something you PAY to actually get access to them or their cosmetics.

[@urrhehe]

@@Asin24 Full refund is so insane. Ye they gutted her but she is getting a rework. Asking them to spit out like 1 milli is so stupid. Its 10 dollars. You can be a little upset but actually excpeting them to make refunds is INSANE.

[@MegitsuneSwe]

here's how I'd at least consider changing the current offering system, with these new Mori's as well. First of all, remove the Cypress and Ivory all together, and bump down the Ebony to a purple/green rarity instead. Secondly, all the category specific BP offerings, like the flowers get bumped up to 200/250/300% each. Either this or outright delete them to free up the bloodweb a bit. Thirdly, allow players to select two offerings, one being a BP only offering (Mori, streamers, cakes, etc), and a second one that alters gameplay (map offerings, sac ward, logs, shrouds, etc).

[@doin10hitcombos]

They are going to rework Skull Merchant, hoepfully they are on the ball with it and not wasting time. I quite strongly believe Bhvr made the right decision with her given the circumstance. They have tried to make her tolerable and failed, her core design is just shit. They feel like they need more time, they are definitely aware how this looks but i can guarantee you effectively removing a whole character is not a spur of the moment change they thought about this. So I'm afraid yall will have to deal with it! Hopefully it doesn't turn into a Twins situation though. I do hope she comes back soon... Just good this time :) thanks bhvr 👍

[@GoldenDeer_]

Her current state isn’t a failed change. Survivors just would rather have a stick up their asses and head in the past. They like bitching about balance without learning counterplay. SM in her current state is genuinely ok in the game. They act like she has the most boring gameplay when killers like Artist (I don’t hate Artist just giving an example) have a better version of her power but are hated less. Literally there was an easy way to nerf her to make versing her not so bad but instead they just made her worthless

[@SlasherFrenzy0]

I truly think this is about resetting her reputation. In nine months, when her rework comes, people with (hopefully) have let go of this almost meme of despising Skull Merchant for no actual reason.

[@MrJP6389]

It totally be twins all over again. One I have no faith they release it in a years time, just like twins it take two fucking year and two I bet it be somehow worst than what we have now. We are taking about a devs where every single game outside DBD as completely failed. BHVR is a shit game dev and honestly I think they are the worst devs in the gaming.

[@MrJP6389]

@@SlasherFrenzy0 pfff 9 months XD More like 2 years.

[@SlasherFrenzy0]

@@MrJP6389 They said nine months. Everyone is saying nine months. It's not just me.

[@BrutusFanboy12345]

They need MORE buffs to soloQ not LESS. Zanshin tactics has not been use don ANY KILLER in FIVE YEARS. Balancing stuff around Nurse is COMPLETELY POINTLESS.

[@kissthecorpseKTS]

I really need them to reverse the changes on skull merchant and then atleast consult skull merchant mains on how they would make the killer more fun to face

[@tritanopia8452]

I really need them to not change the changed whatsoever and leave her like that for 9 months

[@femtrapta5874]

The consultant system watching BHVR make awful game design choices: 👍

[@kidninja8331]

More like keep them so anyone who plays Shit Merchant stops playing, she has no place in the game, fills no niche, offers nothing to the game and was only added to try and cash in on the coomers who play. The game would only get better if these changes go through

[@gongagabadgch6451]

Defending sm on the most sm hater filled channel on the dbd community is so bold i kinda respect that

[@Hyde472]

I'm gonna be real with you. The 14 sm mains are not as important as the thousands upon thousands who would actively rather not play the game at all when she is the killer. I love distortion. I think it needed nerfed not gutted. It is useless now. Most aura builds have 2 procs minimum. It is trash. I'm not going to cry "OH REVERT THE CHANGES AND CONSULT DISTORTION MAINS" as when I play killer it is annoying af. Most people who use distortion think it should stay how it is because they want to never ever no matter what be seen by aura. I'd rather it get gutted then slowly buffed to a healthy state than let it continue to ruin the game as it is now. Sm had this coming for a long time and frankly I hope she gets a full rework and her power is absolutely nothing like it is now. I quite literally walk away from the pc when she is the killer. I won't take the DC penalty, so I just stop playing and do anything else. She needs to be unplayable and stop ruining the game for so many people.

[@miles3794]

First match got slugged in the first couple minutes, the last survivor hid in lockers and then ran to basement until we all bled out...

[@andrewharvey2388]

The problem with the new Mori system is that if you ever want a Mori you HAVE to slug for the 4k so you can ever get the Mori.

[@DESTROYERwis]

Bro what. How would you need to slug if everybody is dead and there is only 1 person left to down. Do you not know how the new system would work??

[@purplejinxer3478]

@@DESTROYERwis Hatch. When you steamroll the survs, hatch appears close if not on the face of the remaining surv

[@alexplays1112]

​​@@DESTROYERwis They are saying that you need to guarantee the survivor can't escape through the hatch to get value from the mori offerings or just want to mori someone in general. Since the best guarantee they can't take a hatch is to slug when there are 2 survivors. Aka slugging for the 4k.

[@ScottJund]

i mean you dont have to do anything. its just as likely you find they hatch as they do. actually its even more likely you do because of movement speed / movement powers

[@andrewharvey2388]

I just like seeing ghostface's Mori and with how it currently is I can bring a green Mori and choose who gets mori'd and have survivors photobomb and have fun with it and with the new system I'd be fired to either kill everyone but the last survivor (or force them out the gate) just to see the Mori. And let's be real, a ghostface Mori without a photobomb is like a bubba without bamboozle

[@NNox_]

Finishing mori should only happen if the last survivor has been hooked twice.

[@datboy038]

Why

[@NNox_]

​@@datboy038 Imagine a killer that can't catch a good survivor and give up. The killer will just focus the weakest ones. With this condition, if he wants to mori, the killer will still need to hook at least once the better survivor and thus somehow go after every survivor.

[@datboy038]

@@NNox_ no, why is that a problem in the first place? I mean no matter what if the “good” survivor gets downed last with zero hooks in his name then he will die regardless, no perk to save him, deliverance won’t work since he is last, he hasn’t been hooked before so no decisive strike either, no other survivor so no saves. The game is already over the mori is just for show

[@NNox_]

​@@datboy038 I agree with what you are saying. I just want it to be rewarded only for healthier matches.

[@datboy038]

@@NNox_ yeah but a killer picking his battles isn’t toxic its just….optimal. I mean personally i like it when a survivor dogs on me especially when i’m playing pyramid head because it is GREAT practice. And i will intentionally throw the match for a 10 min chase because those minutes are far more valuable than a meaningless 3k

[@Leaf__22]

Delete sm

[@ZachTheRage]

The skull merchant take is a big L They did already do the same thing to another killer, The trickster and we still haven't gotten that rework. This is a pattern from bhvr. Make some changes to band aid a problem and hide it under the bed than never touch it again.

[@lolbored1]

"baby's first time learning about terms of service hehe" how exactly is that a valid response? the person was sold a product, then they more or less removed it from the game and gave no compensation in any way, how is that not a massive issue? just because "waaah i don't like skull merchant" how is this not terrible consumer practice?

[@pho5040]

You can still play the killer nothing about that has changed. Just bc a killer is shit doesnt mean you need to be compensated. She wasnt removed stop over exaggerating and wait for the rework.

[@SlasherFrenzy0]

What do you mean "more or less removed it from the game"? They literally didn't remove her in any way. You can still play her, just like people still play Freddy, even though he was turned into a shit killer. Besides, not like she was any good when she was first sold. She was always sold as a bad, terribly design killer and she is still a bad, terribly designed killer. The only thing that has drastically changed is that people won't dc against her NEARLY as much. If they do, at this point, is just for the meme. Because she is not even annoying anymore.

[@InterwovenElements]

Let Skull Merchant buuuuurn

[@xIronwafflexx]

The SM nerfs are probably the best thing for the health of the game. They do need to fix her within the next 6-12 months though.

[@Idontknowwhat2type]

I’ve been running light footed, ironwill, quick and quiet and finesse for chase stealth and it’s been really good. I’ve managed to get a ton of distance or have the killer lose chase on some maps. Probably my fav chase stealth build atm As for distortion, I would have preferred it gain stacks back by doing gens and healing and drop it to 2 max stacks. Some people I know run distort because they aren’t good in chase and they play for unhooks and such. And I think that’s more healthy than taking a perk non rat users use to play into their strengths in a team.

[@Svenss]

Scott okay with a survivor sided patch? Nature is healing..

[@strike123456789]

Scott is a huge survivor main, wym?

[@ScottJund]

@@strike123456789 im a whatever main my current video is about, AKA not anything main

[@halfadeaty]

I like to MORI whenever possible, the new update makes that impossible, therefore I don't like it. If you get off your high heels you maybe could see why people are disliking it.

[@Nathan-hl4uq]

Killers almost always doom, remember when ruin got "nerfed" and people still use it to this day. I remember.

[@anonyoutube825]

People acting like half the sweat lords dont slug to avoid a hatch escape anyway, its literally 90% of matches why are people pretending it isnt already happening

[@celticbear714]

I like playing Skull Merchant. I care about it.

[@grayrim]

I wish they’d also keep zanshin’s original effect

[@stannisthemannis8694]

I don't even care that redditors have mass down voted me on this I am so happy they gutted skull merchant cause the only people playing her are the people who are looking to ruin other people's time.

[@emman4124]

That and ppl who are not good enough to play any other killer that requires skill.

[@Hyde472]

I think if the character is so unfun people would rather just not play, it is better to effectively remove the character.

[@ApacheVibes]

i think itd be cool if they made it to where the more hooks you have the more BP the mori offering gives. so a 12 hook game would reward 80k bp compared to 30k for a 4 hook game. idk just a spitball but something like that could work and also help make the game more healthy

[@jakes9519]

The main character syndrome certain skull merchant players have is insanely cringe. The character was rightfully nerfed, play the other 36 killers in the game or stop playing.

[@mr.catface-2635]

I hate SM but this was not rightfully nerfed... deleting a character is not a deserved nerf really. Its pathetic that the devs went in this direction instead of trying to fix her mechanics. She wasn't even that strong anymore, just terribly unfun to play against. This nerf was so overkill its kinda hilarious. Its a completely unjustified nerf and I for one am not the slightest bit sad that it happened. Rip bozo

[@jakes9519]

@@mr.catface-2635 The hyperbole around her being "deleted" needs to stop. She's still very much playable, just not as frustrating to go against.

[@mr.catface-2635]

@@jakes9519 Brother, she is basically not playable. This take only comes from people who have never actually played her, only against. This nerf was an execution. She essentially does nothing now

[@reallyrellish]

​​@@jakes9519I don't think you understand what these nerfs do. No scouting mode + one scanline means that her (already weak) trap playstyle is fully dead. No haste + 5% hindered means the survivor loses 1.2m of distance after you spend all that time getting 4 scans. You'd literally be better off bloodlusting.

[@jakes9519]

@@reallyrellish I understand perfectly. She isn’t deleted though, so let’s stop with that. It’s very obvious bhvr regrets releasing her at all considering the degenerate play style and player base that more often than not was incredibly toxic. I’d rather she got gutted pre rework than to appease the four SM mains on twitter who think their gameplay style is the only one that matters.