Stacking for Large Radius Turns

Many say "keep your body facing down the hill", not in this video!

[@dianaclark5658]

DEB ARMSTRONG!!!! You have made my imaginary light 💡 bulb turn on above my head! Thank you... you have cleared up a mental battle that has been with me for the longest time! What you said is something that I have secretly been thinking, but too afraid to say it out loud to my instructor friends. THANK YOU!!!!!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

FANTASTIC!

[@barrybechtold3282]

You’re simply the BEST. Your ability to break down all types of skiing in terms we can ALL understand is unmatched. Thank you for making me a better skier.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

I am so glad. Thank you!!!

[@rogerpalin5864]

Thank god, someone who fully explains the difference between body management when using different turn shapes. I hate to see when instructors or “helpful” friends and family teach this wrong

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Glad you like!

[@claudiochisani4120]

So refreshing to have an expert talk about all mountain situations and terrain vs one universal tip; sometimes we use a butter knife another time a stake knife, great content Deb, excellent channel.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Thank you Claudio! Glad you appreciate.

[@23jasont]

Wow! When I started watching you video, I thought, ugh no way, but by the end, I wanted more. It was too short. I totally get it though. I usually preach to my students, to keep your upper body in the down hill direction, but I realized that, yes, when I'm on a really steep, mogul run, I will often, despite my nature, keep my upper body in line with lower body, because maybe I am going to fast and need to slow down, or maybe I caught an edge that threw me off balance, regardless, upper and lower body separation isn't a hard and fast rule, rather, you need to read the terrain and your body and adjust accordingly. AWESOME VIDEO!!!

[@davids949]

Glad you decided to be nice and not hurt the bus. Thanks for another interesting video. It gave me something to think about.

[@seaskiguy]

It's so great to finally hear a good discussion about upper/lower body relationship. I can't tell you how many times I've had newer skiers tell me they should "always" be "facing down the hill." And then I have to give them the "it depends on the turn and situation" discussion. Now I will just send them your video! Thanks! I think this is one of the bigger mistakes made by instructors with new skiers. They confuse the idea of upper/lower body separation with "facing down the hill."

[@boredboiseboy]

I find a good cue is to have my outside hand follow the arc of the turn.

[@patrickwilkins9911]

I think I’ve watched this video 30 times…just starting to think (aka long for) ski season and these videos ALL help me get my mind around technique. It’s like pre-season mental training with that super nice neighbor that you Love to listen to talk about anything. Thankful for your videos!!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Yea!!!! Thanks Patrick!!

[@mikeingelido1762]

Deb, your demos are great and much appreciated as they always give me something to consider. Thank you!

[@purecarve9535]

OK so you are a breath of fresh air.... Can't wait to chat with you.... I am a retired full cert or level 3 PSIA, If you ever saw the split screen video programs back in the 90's where back then it was special to put 2 skiers side by side... That system "Purecarv" was me. You may have seen it at Timberline in the summer.... And I did some demos at Copper and all the Aspens ... Got to run but good stuff, I love how you get the point across

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Sure, very cool. Glad you appreciate my videos. Thanks for the comment!!

[@janinerosenke5463]

Love your tutorials. Thank you.

[@filislas]

Deb that explanation is OUTSTANDING!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Ah shucks. Thank you very much. Happy New Year

[@konstantinkolev4204]

Congratulations,Happy New Year ,Deb! With wishes for health and creativity..

[@ilyamoto]

Now I understand. Thanks! Very helpful for intermediate skiers, as myself, who want to advance their skills in different terrains and conditions.

[@Mugzy1776]

Total support for “Debstrong”. Great demo with the van. Keep em coming! Happy new year from Taos!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Thanks Mugzy! You know your stuff. Glad you appreciate. It is really fun making the videos. See you down south soon

[@thomastheys6681]

Nice job Deb point very well presented a lot of the ski instructor world does not understand upper body rotation and the unlocking of the skeleton stacking as you say. Very well put ski fast and be safe. Thomyt

[@oisam7]

What a great tip! Thank you, deb. I always thought I was doing something wrong as my upper body didn’t face down the hill on a groomer while making a big radius turn as my instructors told me

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Glad to have your back!! you can count on me (smile)

[@davidebrignone4241]

Thanks and thanks again! I've been skiing for a lot of years now, with a decent technique, but never able to feel the ski properly and always stuck at the "upper intermediate" level. The issue is that I am self-trained, and I had one simple basic rule given me by my father when I was super young: always facing down, no matter what. This basically evolved in a good ability for short radius turns, but still struggling in feeling myself completely satisfied with medium-long radius. I wrapped my head a lot on that, but last year, after going back skiing after three years of stop due to COVID, I started to doubt about that simple commandment. I noticed that this posture would give me a strange A-shape when preparing for the next turn, basically collapsing as you showed in the video and falling to much in the back. Moreover, I had the feeling that this would also result in having too much weight on the inside ski with respect to the outside ski. So, in the last year I watched a lot of videos, and I started questioning if I really needed to face down ALWAYS, or whether it depended by the type of turn. This video confirms exactly my recent doubts, and I now understand that it is way more important to focus on lower-upper body separation, and foot work. Thanks!

[@patrickwilkins9911]

Thanks!

[@CB-pl7fb]

Getting back into skiing after 30 years . Had some questionable instruction early this season!!! (Lower! Lower! he shouts at me till I'm squatting low.) But your videos (and a couple of good lessons) are setting me straight. I love your Patagonia outfits... links? (and % to you for clicks??)

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Like the Patagonia idea but I don't think that will work. I love the product however!!! glad you found my channel. Take care!

[@camgreer]

I wish you could meet my friend Angus. Two type A instructors who know everything about the subject. Listening to the two of you together, that would be priceless!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

HA, I would love that. I can geek out on ski talk forever. I love it!!!!!! Tell Angus Hi. Take good care

[@camgreer]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Well, if you ever get down to Keystone, just ask around. They'll know him.

[@christopherbooth7626]

@@camgreer Yes! the age old question of how many ski instructors does it take to change a lightbulb?

[@urbanrunoff]

Super video! I applauded for $2.00 👏

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Ya! Thank you.

[@neilmeiskey5482]

Thanks for explaining this! I always felt awkward facing downhill on bigger radius turns! It worked well for me on steeper runs with short radius turns but not on big sweeping turns! Would this also be good for derp powder (if I am ever lucky enough to ski in some again)

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Check out this video for powder. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWO2lH6JgqypqsU

[@TheBeingReal]

Nice tips as to the upper body position to the turn/terrain type. Skied day 1/6 at Steamboat today! 🥳

[@henryschumacher4047]

Was at Steamboat a longtime ago always fun, get out there and enjoy it!! 👍🎿

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

sorry the snow pack isn't great yet. Look for me on the hill today. I will be on bashor this morning setting a course. between 9ish and 11ish.

[@TheBeingReal]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Will do! Just not a great snow year for most places. 🥺

[@TheBeingReal]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Deb, glad we got to meet yesterday! 😁. We are just randomly skiing the mountain, so no fancy plans. Morningside was great in the afternoon. Let me know if you have any free time, we’ll ski daily all week. Friday is travel day.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

@@TheBeingReal lets make a few turns Wednesday. Not sure time yet

[@christopherbooth7626]

Did the van move? On a more serious note, you want to face the direction you are traveling in. In long radius turns your upper body is fairly square with your skis (as you say, in alignment with the length of the ski). In short radius turns you are traveling straight down the hill and facing that way while your skis turn under you.

[@dennisrogers4665]

This is very interesting but I’m not sure entirely what to do with this information. I’m an intermediate skier but getting much more comfortable with black runs, with or without moguls. I’m still pretty cautious with regard to raw speed on groomers, so do shorter turns and am always mindful of keeping my upper body facing downhill. I’m terrified of tree skiing. :) So now I’m wondering when/if going faster on groomers, I might *intuit* some slight instability requiring a slight turn (or stacking) in the upper body to retain stability and power. It might be that I won’t be able to appreciate the info here until doing more powerful long-radius turns on groomers. I’ll surely be keeping this lesson in mind though!! I’m so glad you keep posting new videos Deb, and am hoping you post some advice for steeps soon! :) Later this season I want to challenge myself on a steep double black that I did quite poorly on last year.

[@JanosKoranyi]

The degree of separation depends on how short or long turn you wish to make! The shorter the turn, the more your upper body should face the fall-line. But remember that this is a counter-rotation movement of the hips that must make the separation, not the shoulders! So at steeps you will need to make much shorter turns and so your upper body must face the fall-line much more. At less steep groomers ,if you wish to make longer turns, you separate less.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Hey, that's my job! just kidding. Great point and thank you very much! you know your stuff.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

See Janos point. Thank Janos. and Dennis, let us know if this helps. Take care

[@dennisrogers4665]

Thank you to both of you! :) Deb, I went back and watched the “body, hip, alignment in alpine skiing” video you did 4 years ago. I think it’s making way more sense now.

[@soliverWATR]

ugh - this video is really good and also the arms out video but now I am reflecting a lot and do not want to misguide my skiers although I see that telling them to look down fall line even in larger radius turns seem to help?? Seems like your eyes/head are looking pretty much down the fall line? I work with adults that use their entire body to turn so need some tips for breaking out of that!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Ok, you say look down the hill. Vision is important!!! periphery vision hugely important. so no, in larger radius turns you don't look directly down the fall line however one's periphery vision takes in the downhill slope. for folks who are using their entire body to turn, ya, this needs work. I am putting out a video today, a beginner/intermediate video which focuses on the skill of pressure. This skill and what I address in this new video will help your skiers even if they are better than the skier in the video. foot to foot pressure work is important!!! And if you are gleaning good tips through the videos I encourage you to support the channel through the applause button. You take good care.

[@Osnosis]

Pitch (which is equivalent to speed) is a big deal when teaching technique. As hard as it can be, a beginner slope is the best place to learn advanced technique.

[@alexs5394]

Not really lesson related but I love your orange and blue color coordination

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

HA, thank you

[@bobcoggin4618]

Brill 👍🏻

[@tomhanson3591]

Super video! I applauded for $10.00 👏👏👏

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Tom! Thank you very much. I see you applauded another video as well. As you can assume, this supports the making of future videos. Appreciated.

[@tomhanson3591]

Nice thoughts Deb! Simple and makes good sense. Obvious but we seem to spend too much time with "anticipation" to realize that there are times for this sort of stacking. Terrific reminder...teach what we actually do and be aware of our movements.

[@tomhanson3591]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Your welcome :)

[@stevedoe1630]

Is a “thumb up” same as “applaud”? If not, then I don’t think my device is “applause compatible”.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

@@stevedoe1630 possibly not. It is only in a few countries and only on desktops or laptops. The applause button is right next to the thumbs up. Thanks for looking into it👍👍👍👍😊😊😊😊

[@katherinehayesrodriguez9683]

Great demos! Seems like biomechanics dictates a minimal counter

[@soccerstar204]

Do you have any video on holding on to the turn too long? I'm skiing the steeps and the last third of the hill I'm holding on to the turn longer.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Not yet😉

[@markbaum9615]

How bout a DebStrong video of threading the zipline.....thanks

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

have you seen my mogul playlist on my channel. Check that out. That may help. Let me know.

[@normalizedaudio2481]

"upper body is following direction of travel."

[@JanosKoranyi]

Where goes the border between the upper and the lower body? You do not say this but it is important at downhill skiing! We know that the legs are part of the lower body. The feet must follow the rotations of the skis, because they are attached to the skis. We can also agree that the knees should rotate together with the skis. But what about the hips? For me a good separation means that we rotate the whole torso (including also the hips) less than we rotate the skis. We counter rotate the hips in the first place, and the hips take the whole upper body into the very same direction. Many ski instructors talk only about the shoulders ,or as you do about the upper body without specifying what they mean by the word "upper body".

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

good point. the videos are short so for every video I am not covering other important information. The hips and pelvis are considered a part of the upper body as I think you already know. the legs, the femur rotates/turns from within the hip socket. The foot also can turn somewhat out of the ankle joint. Does this answer your question?

[@JanosKoranyi]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Sorry Deb. Please check anywhere the definition of the term "upper body". You will find, that upper body means all parts of the body above the waist. This is why I asked you! So when you talk about upper body, you really exclude the hips. But the hips are responsible for all counter-rotations of the torso during all parallel turns. And the hips take the whole torso with them into this rotation.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

@@JanosKoranyi I am not following you. You are saying the hips are a part of the upper body, correct. My comment pointed out the fact that the pelvis, the hips are a part of the upper body. The separation of upper body and lower body occurs here. This is where the femur, the lower body moves from. I am not following your objection. Sorry.

[@JanosKoranyi]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong OK let us try once more. No, I am not saying that the pelvis is part of the upper body! It is part of the lower body. The truth is that the border between the upper body and the lower body is at the waist, and not at the hip joints! So the pelvis is part of the lower body! This is not just that I am saying this, you can check it at wikipedia or anywhere. This is a fact. So when you say in you video that we separate the movements of the upper body from the movements of the lower body, it is not correct. It creates the idea, that we should counter-rotate our shoulders and let the pelvis rotate together with the skis and the legs. You should say instead, that we separate the movements of the legs from the movements of thew torso (trunk). We counter-rotate our hips and the torso follows the hips. The border between the legs and the torso is situated inside the socket joints of the hips.

[@jaemckeown6704]

@@JanosKoranyi for alpine skiing as defined by the Professional Ski Instructors of America, the separation of upper and lower body is as Deb defines it. However, for freestyle skiing, the pelvis, the hips are part of the lower body. It can be confusing.

[@tube7769]

counter vs square

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

yep

[@stevedoe1630]

I trust the advisor, but still have questions about the advice. 1. If keeping the upper body with direction of travel is a position of power, why do we not want to harness this power for short radius turns? 2. Why is keeping the upper body stable and quiet good for short radius turns, but not for long. 3. Is there less potential energy being “coiled up” between upper-lower body difference on a long radius turn? I always thought that was the main point of upper-lower body separation. I feel like my heart kind of “feels” the concept, but my brain doesn’t see the technical difference. Maybe swinging the upper body on short radius turns is just too much swing weight rotating too quickly for the staked power to be efficient?

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Your last sentence sums it up. upper body separation does help with the quickness necessary for short turns. longer turns, more g-force so more strength necessary. those are a couple differences. Does this help?

[@stevedoe1630]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Yes, thanks. At this point, with embracing the “learn-do-learn” methodology...I need to embrace some “do”. I think the neurons are starting to align in my head, but I need to feel it to connect the synapses. (Unfortunately, my 2020-2021 ski season is over; I don’t have another trip on the books.) 🥺

[@dj_617]

Square vs Counter = Ligety vs Hirscher. Who was more successful? Your analogy in 1:50 is incorrect unfortunately. The forces do not come from a skier that pushes you in the back, they come from the opposite side; from the slope and they have to be resisted by your feet and legs. Counter enables you to do just that and still stay balanced over the outside foot.

[@stephaniewilson2564]

Super video! I applauded for $2.00 👏

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

I love it! Thank you very much. Cheers