DEBUNKED- The experts said this chisel trick wouldn't work!

[@StumpyNubs]

▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RESOURCES RELATED TO THIS VIDEO▼ ★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★ Tormek's complete sharpening systems: amzn.to/35jvOeE *Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!* (If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission) *Links promised in this video:* -More useful sharpening videos: kzbin.info/aero/PL-gT7JMZFYjfSqRIGMlHzlBkvGBYh09At -Tutorial about flattening tool backs: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6rNYmmrbNqXotk -More videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/ -Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/ -Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/ -Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ -Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★ -123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij -Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK -Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv -Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9 -Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg -Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK -Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC -Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW -Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam -Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7 -Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv -Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak -Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI -Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x -Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M -Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★ -Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or -Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz -Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0 -Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3 -Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc -Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6 -Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x -Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS -Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13 ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★ -Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8 -Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ -Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF -Router: amzn.to/3grD22S -Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y -Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm -Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH -Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr -Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ -Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY -Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc -Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★ -Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh -Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI -Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl -Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh -Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo -Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq -ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7 (If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)

[@williambolio7723]

I would “ never “ bevel the back of my chisels!! I also “always” set my planes down on their sides !! Yeah right-it is the craftsperson that can think for themselves that gets my vote!

[@rezadaneshi]

Its a wonderful tip to keep in mind when sharpening saw blades as well.

[@kencoleman7762]

I greatly appreciate your willingness to test out such "rules of thumb". You are stepping on some toes but I believe you covered yourself sufficiently. Keep on testing grandpa's rules.

[@jimbennett7248]

I only use the "ruler" while sharpening my card Scrapers. They are thin and difficult to flatten the faces. Using a ruler gives me great results.

[@grumpyone5963]

Yes and so precisely explained. Excellent video.👍

[@KingofHassi]

all of this talk about thumbs and toes, you'd think this was a stumpy nubs video...

[@arvana]

I love that people are challenging conventional wisdom in woodworking. Just like the strength of end-grain glueing, this is one of those things that gets repeated over and over, and it takes an experiment like this to actually try it and see that it works just fine!

[@MrFishBlood]

agreed. I love when people challenge old information experimentally... Remember, tradition is just peer pressure from the dead.

[@tarbucktransom]

What I want to know is how well this holds up when mortising, if it throws off your ability to get a perfectly vertical mortise wall.

[@HdtvTh]

Don't take it the wrong way, there's still no good application for end grain glue. The reason glue works on the side of long grain is because the glue is stronger than the wood in that configuration, however the glue is still weak and ridiculously weaker than trying to break the long wood fibers in an endgrain situation. Point is, don't rely on glue.

[@Andi.Mitchell.Designs]

@@tarbucktransom most likely, nothing you or I or Mr Nubs himself has ever made is “perfectly vertical.” As humans we are perfectly imperfect , we just need to keep it to a very tight tolerance level and at our best, our error will be there but unnoticeable

[@carpocraftguitarscarpentry8469]

In my experience, conventional wisdom in woodworking usually means stubborn old guys sticking with what they know LOL.

[@wes_d]

“See if any heads explode.” LOL. I love it. You sir, are an instigator…keep up the good work ;-)

[@rafioli6851]

I've been micro-beveling the back since the beginning and can't say I've ever run into a cut my chisels couldn't handle. The wear and tear and time saved on sharpening stones makes it a no-brainer

[@RobRobertson1000]

Same here :)

[@stickyfox]

I'm disappointed to learn that this trick has a name. The first time it occurred to me, I thought, "I wonder if I could put something like feeler stock under my chisel so I don't have to cut this whole surface." I didn't have any feeler stock but I had a ruler. It seems like the most obvious thing ever.

[@fmbjmf]

I've always been a bit skeptical about the no ruler for chisels rule myself. I do flatten and polish mine, but maybe the next one I get that needs a lot of work will get the ruler. And, assuming I did the math correctly if you assume the ruler is 1/64, the distance across the stone is 3", the polish goes back 1/4" then you have a .0013" rise from the back of the chisel to the edge, only half that if you only polish back 1/8" etc. IIRC the good diamond stones are only guaranteed flat to .001" over the length, so really how flat do you actually get the back with the traditional method. Finally, if you only flatten the first inch or so, then you can only rely on the flat section to reference, once you're referencing on the non flattened portion all bets are off.

[@rafioli6851]

Plus it's way too easy to slip while you're flattening the whole back and ride on the bolster or even the handle. Then you're at an even steeper angle for a stroke or two. Better to control it and make the mistake on purpose so the strokes are consistent if that makes sense

[@shadowcard6923]

I will say that the concept of lapping is to average out over a wider area to get a flat result (hence rubbing 2 of the same stone together typically will keep them flat) but assuming this same method, higher “accuracy” could be gotten by going to a thin feeler gauge under 1/64 (.016” or so)

[@stephenandrusyszyn3444]

The first thing I did was do the calculations. If anyone is expecting better that 1/1000 of an inch using any method, then they are expecting too much.

[@petercrizer6102]

Hey Chris, thanks for doing the math on this, I was about to. As you figured, the amount of angle on this is so minute that it hardly makes a difference, that's why it's called a MICRO-bevel . . .

[@larrybud]

I was going to post the same. Even if the rule is 1/32, over 3" that's only 0.6 degrees the chisel is angled up. 1/64 and the angle is angle is 0.3 deg.

[@realmetallurgist8493]

I had never heard of this trick, but it seemed like such a good idea, I decided to take it to its logical extreme. I used my 0.003" feeler gauge blade to block up the chisel. It took about 10 seconds to produce a 1/16" wide area on an already flattened chisel. I'll never again flatten a chisel the old way.

[@Nevir202]

Interesting point. Thinner the "ruler" the less any possible issues even matter.

[@ztoob8898]

I was wondering about using a feeler gauge; thanks for the report! I was also wondering about brass shim stock as the "ruler," since it's available in cuttable sheets. You might have to lightly round off the backside corners on the chisel so they don't dig into the soft shim stock, but I can't see that being a problem.

[@jimmurphy5739]

@@ztoob8898 Even easier: tin foil. Double it up if you want, or more. Tin foil is about a thou or two and won't have you consuming expensive brass stock. Another option is to cut up a pop can. I use that to shim my jointer and it's predictably thick, around 3 thou.

[@asmith7876]

Your presentation and camera work is always astounding...top notch, among the best, regardless of genre. Thanks for sharing!

[@TheWalrus469]

It makes total sense -- it's just ratios. The ratio of the body of the chisel to the height of the ruler will be the same as ratio of the width of the bevel (the width of the shiny strip) to the gap between the true edge and the flat chisel back. If the chisel body is ~2.5 inches (between where it's supported on the ruler and the sharpened edge) and the ruler is 1/64", then you have a 160:1 ratio. If the back bevel is about a millimeter in width (about what it looks like at 4:48), then the gap will be *one four-thousandth* of an inch (0.00025")! I can't imagine a hand-tool joinery use case where that deviation is material.

[@thebigmacd]

@@nelsoncarpentry 25 hundred-thousandths of an inch is the same as one four-thousandth.

[@nelsoncarpentry]

@@thebigmacd Ahhh yeah one four-thousandth as in a fraction. Okay don't mind me. lol

[@ericericson4]

we have had this argument in the shop many times. Thus the rule of courtesy "I may loan you my chisel, but don't you dare sharpen it." (I'm a long time professional woodworker) I get paid to work wood, not to sharpen tools. I generally hollow grind on a bench grinder and then strop on a hard buffing wheel. I do the back side but try to keep a light touch. I get a razor sharp edge in seconds. I find that any micro bevel caused by the buffing wheel is not enough to make any difference.

[@KlayJones]

Awesome tip! I have some chisels to sharpen myself and I'm going to give this a try! I don't have a bench grinder so sharpening takes forever, so hopefully this will help save some time on the back of the chisels!

[@seephor]

The bevel is so small that it's negligible. We're probably talking about less than half thou plus when it comes to most woods, they can compress more than that amount anyway in a joint. You can mark many woods with a fingernail to give you an idea of what I mean.

[@rafioli6851]

Great point about compression!

[@Venge94]

My philosophy when it comes to conversations about sharpening technique is: Regardless of how it came to be, a sharpe edge is a sharpe edge, whatever works for you.

[@johnstarkie9948]

But only if you spell it correctly😎

[@Venge94]

@@johnstarkie9948 its not my strong point haha

[@pirakoXX]

This makes a HUGE difference to me, as a new "low budget" woodworker and new in hand-sharpening, as I hope this "ruler-trick" will make it possible finally to get one of old, cheap chisels just semi-sharp! Until 5 minutes ago, I was quite sure I'll never get it done! If I can do it, I hope it will give me the confidence to try to sharpen more, and in more ways!

[@What_Other_Hobbies]

You are making a lot of sense in these videos. Great info.

[@rjlavallee3575]

Rob Cosman's channel was the first place I saw the ruler trick -- even on chisels -- and one can argue his stuff is pretty high end. Always great pieces. Thanks.

[@Havreflan]

I must say, I really appreciate someone with the knowledge like you actually testing these myths and common wisdoms, while not trying to come to a definitive conclusion about what anyone should or shouldn't do. There's almost always a kernel of truth to these old rules, but I like to know why so that I can make an informed choice. Edit: btw, I find that there are more ways to do most things right than there is to do them wrong, if that makes sense. If it works, it works.

[@54mgtf22]

It seems to me that the tolerance of the chisel honing exceeds the tolerance required for the timber, even with the minute back bevel. We’re not making a bearing mating surface in high carbon steel. Love your work 👍

[@anthonymorales842]

I watch this channel often however it is your drawing skills for illustration that earns my highest respect.

[@DomenicDatti]

This is great. I'd love to see a comparison over 1000+ sharpening iterations.

[@peterhansson7967]

As long as you do not flatten/polish the WHOLE backside of the chisel blade you will have some deviation… That means that rhe ruler trick on chisels will do ”the trick” in 99% of the cases. And the longer the chisel the less the back bevel will be… Good tip!!

[@mrow7598]

I've never thought of sharpening new tools. Learned something from the first few seconds of the video let alone the ruler sharpening.

[@adamhilliard5589]

Great vid Stumpy! That chiseling was so satisfying!

[@adamwilks]

I’ve often thought about the old “ruler trick” on a chisel. Glad you did these tests. Very interesting indeed. 👍🏼👍🏼

[@andrewwarwick2831]

Personally, I'll probably keep flattening my chisels the traditional way, but I think you proved that the ruler method can be personal preference as long as it's done right.

[@funmanteddy2726]

The big issue Ive always had with chisels like this is when chopping mortises it will slide forward. Personally I've never been a fan of the David Charlesworth ruler for plane blade either but of course there is nothing wrong with it I just find it to be more annoying to deal with rather than just flattening the back once.

[@RossMitchellsProfile]

True about being annoying to deal with but it's a great workaround for the odd plane iron that has such a radical hump that sanding it out just isn't practical. (Wish I knew this before spending days working at a humped plane iron to get it flat thankfully I was able to watch KZbin while flattening it so my sanity stayed intact)

[@michaelmcdermott2178]

Good point, expertly made! With my impressive essential tremor, I work against reference surfaces wherever possible. That said, if the ruler trick really doesn't interfere with paring cuts, more better. I don't use a Tormek or equivalent and only use a slow speed grinder / CBN for initial shaping, so it's all hand sharpening in my shop. And being relieved of the need to polish a wider area would be great. I'll try this out. I'm kind of a sharp freak (Sellers version, not Cosman), so this makes me wish I'd tested this bit of conventional wisdom on my own, earlier. Bottom line: head exploding but in a good way.

[@rafioli6851]

Agreed. Reference surfaces are only good for maximizing the material you have to remove and the time it takes to get to the next cut.

[@christophercastor6666]

Nothing like chappin’ a few arses with an unconventional sharpening method…. Gotta love ya for these James! Thank you as always! -CY Castor

[@gordroberts53]

Hi James, love your debunking videos, this was no exception. Thanks for sharing.

[@kennyl4186]

As always James, great work! You are right about the back bevel not affecting the cut. Although, you only need to flatten the back once. Back bevels need to be done at every sharpening.

[@StumpyNubs]

Not every time. Just when future honing eventually wears the length down past the thin shiny strip on the back. But touching it up each time does remove any burr, something you would do with a fully flattened back, as well.

[@walterbordett2023]

I am going to try this for my rough work chisels that are always getting new bevels to grind out chips and nicks due to the abuse they have received. the backs are not pristine either as they get rusty and scratched. This trick will probably save me a lot of time making them serviceable for rough carpentry and general shop abuse. Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good enough. Everyone needs tools that can be used and abused for rough work so as to spare the better tools from such abuse. Thank you for expanding our knowledge and techniques based on actual use, not just folk wisdom.

[@johnfrederickson3082]

Thank you for going against the tide. Your audiences learn very valuable information.

[@ronboe6325]

It would have been instructive if you had gone back over the paring area with the traditionally sharpened chisel to see what, if any, additional wood it removed.

[@738polarbear]

Excellent point. I believe MORE will be removed.

[@DannyB-cs9vx]

Only difference would be how much or little the operator raised the handle. He showed a flat ground will not remove material on a flat surface without raising the handle a bit. So how much one raises the chisel with either method is about skill, and not the tool. In every craft, a skilled person can do better with a cheap tool than a novice with an expensive one.

[@tullgutten]

At 7:40 you see there is an void between the steel bar and chisel on the right side, so it is clearly cutting at an angle upwards

[@britsfabrication]

I have all of my great grandfathers chisel and most of them have been sharpened like this and they have always worked great for me

[@davebenson1504]

Thanks.. always so clear and concise...

[@HRConsultant_Jeff]

I was just clearing out my drawer of chisels today. Some are quite old including a couple of Sheffield stub chisels. Many could use a good sharpening and the back of many are less than perfect after so many years of use (before me). Then I see your video today and now I have a weekend project ahead of me. Thanks??

[@humbertosamaniego2167]

Great method. I even used this technique on a Sweat heart chisel Hamilton recommended. Rob Cosman also uses this technique. Love this new, better method. You guys are great teachers.

[@radiationroom]

Another informative Stumpy Nubs video! Thank you for sharing!

[@SirPrancelot1]

Wow. Fascinating. Will try this, thank you.

[@edwhitson9873]

I have used a variation of this on my chisels for years. Once you do it, you won't go back. Don't overdo it, mainly a cleanup. There's a small amount of compression inherent in the working surface that makes up the several ten thousandths to a thousandth of deviation from flat. In fact, I would have thought the ruler too much

[@KeithCooper-Albuquerque]

Man, do I have so much to learn! Thanks for all of your content!

[@dakflyer]

I've done this to my chisels too, mostly out of ignorance, so I was surprised when I learned my chisels shouldn't work well in your examples and yet they do. I think folks get wrapped up in the theory that it shouldn't work IN THEORY. But it does because woodworking isn't exactly the same as precision machining. For us 1/64 is certainly acceptable, 1/32 probably, and we can even hide errors of 1/16 of an inch. In machining and metal work any of those tolerances would be big issues, but we're working with a soft material, even when it is hardwood, that naturally expands and contracts moves. So while in theory there may be a point, in practicality the thousandths of material you've removed from the back of that chisel just aren't going to effect it's performance on a variable, once alive surface like wood.

[@markbernier8434]

That is one place where you get what you pay for. The manufacturer chooses not to machine the tool accurately to hit a price point. For those few who have access to a surface grinder you can flatten the back of a chisel to sub 0.001" tolerance easily.

[@Islacrusez]

🎵 this isn’t some space engineering, sweetie it’s cedar and glue... this isn’t a rocket you’re building - if it’s true to a sixteenth it’s true 🎵

[@Barrysautospares]

This is essentially a conversation about acceptable tolerances.

[@jewishmafia9801]

@@Barrysautospares Exactly and for some people they can accept a looser fit but others can have very high standards for their work. That's the difference between decent work and world class

[@nathaniels9141]

I work as a framer my boss always says there is no 1/16 in framing. As you said wood is alive. Anything you make is going to move and bend out of shape eventually. If it's being made out of wood then it will never be perfect.

[@Scott-sm9nm]

Great video. Fit in with some sharpening I did for the spouses gardening tools recently.

[@olddawgdreaming5715]

Thanks for sharing with us James. I let those folks argue and I do flatten the back for better cutting ability, just the way I was taught years ago. Fred.

[@eCitizen1]

This video speaks to perfection versus near perfection. It seems in this case both are perfect enough.

[@1averageamerican]

Oh, heads will explode. You can take that to the bank. Excellent demo James.

[@jperez06811]

My favorite wood working channel thanks!

[@timdales8300]

BRILLIANT DUDE! Never be afraid to test "norms", that's how we grow!

[@keats182]

I've done the ruler trick on some of my chisels. For everyday chisel work, it really doesn't make a difference. But over time, it does change things slightly. When I test the edge on end grain, I have to angle the chisel up slightly.

[@hansangb]

How timely. I have some Narex chisels that I need to sharpen. You probably saved me about an hours worth of work!

[@jamie01737]

wow i have never heard of the ruler trick, thank you

[@toddvillano7994]

That was a very informative video as always I learned a lot. I find your sharpening videos very helpful I've used your methods on multiple tools thank you again

[@vallejokid1968]

I’ve got a set of HF chisels I’ll try this on. Maybe they will become my new favorites.

[@jimsulsona4128]

"...see if any heads explode!" LOL Loved that ending...!

[@don178]

As some others have calculated, it's around .0015" if the polished edge is .250" long. The one you show is far below that after completing your back bevel, perhaps 1/16 (.063) which pushes the offset to .00034". For woodworking, might as well call it zero at that point. We're not machinists trying to achieve the ever elusive goal of 'more zeroes'. Thanks for the very informative video.

[@missc7011]

That’s a great infomercial! Thanks!

[@JMAWWorks]

Great experiment, I’ve often wondered if this theoretical problem was an actual problem or not, I appreciate the data point

[@dennisspeer8077]

Stumpy, I tried approximating the geometry of this style of sharpening. If your ruler was 1/32 thick, and the distance to the apex was 3”, the resultant angle would be less than 0.6 degrees. The actual distance of your apex above a chisel held flat would be 0.0002” . It would increase as the width of the sharpened area increased.

[@craigbowman1656]

my head just exploded. Thanks Stumpy

[@frenstcht]

FANTASTIC VIDEO! Thanks for doing this. It's great information. Cheers.

[@seamus6387]

I've wondered about this myself. Thanks

[@MJ202020]

Very thought provoking...thank you. This good outcome, may be related to the compressibility of the wood and inversely related to the hardness of the wood material

[@profcah]

Thank you James. Great video on a topic I have wondered about for quite a while

[@sapelesteve]

Interesting video SN! I agree with your assessment about sharpening the back bevel. Heads are always going to explode when discussing any woodworking topic! 😂😂🤣🤣👍👍

[@kevinorr6880]

Rob Cosman would be proud of your discovery. Good video.

[@StumpyNubs]

Has Cosman used the ruler on a chisel? I've only seen him do it on plane irons like everyone else does.

[@kevinorr6880]

@@StumpyNubs I did a quick look and you may be correct.

[@Suicaedere666]

Beauty! Thanks stumpy, great video!

[@MCsCreations]

That's really interesting indeed! Thanks, James! 😃 Maybe a mixed sharpening could help a lot! Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@ocuanadesigns]

Not going to lie as an old school sharpener, who's spent countless hours flattening old chisels, i was skeptical of using the ruler trick on a chisel...but you can't argue with results. Great video i'm defo going to try this for my site chisels.

[@mandowarrior123]

Theoretically it might counteract the dive force as it is such a minimal amount. Try it and see if they don't even cut straighter, your conclusion on it would be valuable.

[@chriscampbell1456]

I love it when the old school rules are challenged and broken. Do you think this might work because of the way modern day chisels are made? The modern machine is way more precise than what they used in the past. A lot of them are even robotic now. I personally think that would lead to flatter chisels out of the box versus what you used to get out of the box before.

[@JH-lo9ut]

Cool tip. Will try this. As you said, a perfectly flattened chisel must is theory have that mirror finish all the way back to the handle. No-one has chisels like this. Scallopped back chisels can be perfectly flat all the way on the sides, but the scallop is not the best reference surface if that's what you are after. I have actually resorted to put a slight bend in chisels that I'm using for pairing. It lifts most of the surface up from the stone and I can focus on honing the last inch as flat as I can get it. If you look at old slick chisels, they are often bent like this.

[@davidedgar2818]

I think you're right, I've used this method and it's worked. I have very clean cuts.

[@michelmichelli5694]

Hello! French cabinet maker here. I didn t know about this ruler trick, but I wonder if the flatness of the stone will be preserved by doing this.

[@RiderOftheNorth1968]

The use of micro bevel is great for edges for many applications. I use it for folding knives, utility belt knives and some ktchen knives. It gives a stronger edge but keeps the "sliceability" of the thin edge.

[@tbread1128]

I have never chiseled, I don't even own a chisel, I don't really own any woodworking equipment except for a saw, a cheap hand planer and a sander for my garden shed and a very cheap and wonky table saw. The sander I only bought because I saw you use it once (DeWalt) but apart from this, I don't need or use any of your tips. I watch your video's constantly because I really like watching you and I generally like handworking and diy. Keep up the great content. I don't know if I'm the only non-woodworker who watch this channel, but you have at least one.

[@Kraligor]

Nothing broadens your horizon more than learning about things you have zero experience in!

[@darodes]

“See if any heads explode” 😂 I’m here for it 👏

[@MemphisCorollaS]

If a hard rule can’t hold up to scrutiny or testing, then it’s not such a useful rule probably. Glad you took a shot on this one.

[@norm5785]

Thank you for sharing this with us today from Henrico County Virginia

[@larss337]

Again, a good video with useful information 👍

[@RANDOMNATION907]

Ya know, 'The Exploding Heads' was the name of a Country-Reggae/Death Metal-Folk band I formed in the mid 80's. ;) I really appreciate all of the little tips and Ideas I have learned from you in the year or so I've been watching this channel. I would just like to say, thank you.

[@david25876]

Thank you Mr Nubs.

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

As a complete armature (below "hobbyist") woodworker, or even blade-sharpener... of *any* sort... I've been unknowingly doing this the entire time, but always felt like I was breaking some cardinal rule, ruining the chisel. Glad that's not really the case!! Thank you 😁👍 Given my started experience level, are those "XL" (extra large) leather micro-diamond strops on Amazon/etc at ~$15usd worth a damn, or would I be better off with something else? _(for tools, but likely also fish fileting knives)_ A small aside: being a stickler for detail, your comparison footage that showed _"as you can see, the completely flatly sharpened chisel is unable to remove any further material from the joint" (paraphrased),_ you didn't appear to start the "flat" chisel up high enough, having started it on the area where you removed the lip; therefore, it wasn't given a fair chance at taking a bite in my opinion. (which, at least to my eyes, after you removed the chisel there did *seem* to be a slight ~1/8th inch tall slope in the corner; purely unbiased observation/speculation by me) 🥴 I could easily be wrong though, or might just be the footage didn't capture it but you had indeed thoroughly checked. Either way I still agree with the verdict: near enough to make no difference!

[@steve6271]

i am new to woodworking and do not many expensive chisels so this is a good way to get going with the chisels i have. have you ever considered changing a standard chisel to a the chisels from japan that have the middle of the back hollowed out so there is less to flatten on the back

[@CleaveMountaineering]

Great video. While I usually try to get the back truly flat near the edge, I've also noticed how you have to lift up the back of the chisel a bit anyway, so maybe a tiny back bevel is ok. For plane blades I micro bevel the back like the ruler trick but don't bother with the ruler, just hold it ever so slightly off the stone freehand.

[@wdtaut5650]

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they are not." Challenging theories with practice can get you in trouble. Nice job anyway, Stump. Thanks for the tip (and test).

[@pingmeep]

Love the video and your challenging of sharpening dogma. I always thought the ruler trick was a no no for larger chisels and sandpaper unless heavily pitted and in a time crunch. At least that's what my aged shop teacher said back in the 90's. He did a demo on carving part of pew with rounded cross inlay and you could see a difference on the rounded portions and we as students could feel it too. You might try those because your diamond stones and grinder are way more precise than the tools used when that "rule" was a factor. The other factor was the repeated sharpening and creating multiple micro bevels. This actually can be discernable on very soft woods like Douglas Fir and Short leaf SYP in ornamental carving. But again it's a craftsman vs artisan vs novice students distinction. Anyways great video.

[@jackstanford550]

As a former college Botany professor, I taught plant anatomy for many years. When o saw you shaving away the cross grain, I could see @7:21- 7:26

[@jackstanford550]

Oops.... I continue- see the porosity (vessels) of the wood almost like looking at XSs of oak under the microscope. There are lots of wood anatomy shown in those tiny slivers of wood there. Including: growth rings, porosity, rays, parenchyma, xylem, and more. Brought back tons of memories of students, lectures and great times in the lab. I love your videos.

[@neonjoe529]

I did some math… Assuming: 1/32” ruler Holding the chisel up 1” away from the cutting edge Sharpening a 1/16” wide section of the back of the chisel … The cutting edge ends up a little less than 2/1000” higher than the back of the chisel.

[@DiscoFang]

Indeed. Triangle ratios and fractions. 32x16 =512 =2/1024". Which is about an average human hair's width. I'd say a hair's breadth but that was once an actual unit of measurement which was 1/48". 10 times the size we're talking!

[@caneycreekwoodcarver]

I've used a very thin feeler gauge to do the same thing. It is a lot less angel with a 64th inch angel. I use a magnet to hold the feeler gauge to the chisel.

[@wildpat03]

How interesting! While I'm neither an expert in chisel sharpening, I have quite a bit more experience with Japanese kitchen knives and their maintenance. Single bevel knives like a honesuki or a yanagiba are polished on the back. The back profile is very, very slightly concave and that polishing creates a micro bevel. This allows for a better and straighter cut than a pure single bevel would do. Thanks a lot for this video and your will to tackle myths and shop legends.

[@TrevorDennis100]

1.64th is close to 0.040". I use an old hacksaw blade that I have ground off the teeth and set, and that's close to 0.025" (0.64 in real money). I enjoyed today's video because I have worried myself sick about ever so slightly rolling off the back of my chisels. I've not been using the ruler trick on my chisels, but do with my plane irons. What I have been doing is using a fully stitched 8" buffing wheel to hone my edges, and I am sure that must impart a ting angle to the back. So I am going go a stage further and use the ruler trick on my chisels as well as my plane irons, and stop beating myself up over it. Oh, and I am _definitely_ going to start using a 1-2-3 block as a guide. I liked that idea a lot!

[@rwillaz]

1/64" is exactly .015625", no where close to.040".

[@grantfrith9589]

I've naturally gravitated over time to put a back bevel on my chisels. My favorite tool is a 50mm chisel I've had for 40 years. The versatility of a razor sharp wide blade like that cannot be undersated. Mine is usually sharp enough for most purposes. If you can painlessly shave old man facial stubble you're in beast mode... For most applications if it smoothly shaves the hair on the back of your arm it's close enough. My back bevel is done very lightly, freehand and at a much greater angle than the ruler method. It also behaves beautifully with regards to the tests carried out here. My reasoning is that the polished section is much closer to the cutting edge which means the next sharpening process on the next hollow grind removes enough material to bring it back to perfectly flat on the other side. I suspect if you use the method on this video over a long enough time you'll end up having to work harder to get your edges as the tool ages. Whatever method we use the tools let us know how well we've done by how they perform. Don't be afraid to experiment and develop your own techniques, subtleties matter and the combination of theories and techniques a craftsman accumulates is priceless.

[@jimbo2629]

This works because woodworking tolerances are greater than most work to. As I have a Worksharp I just give the back a quick flattening to take off the burr before buffing on my grinder. To get in those corners the chisel handle just needs to be elevated less than 1 degree if you have a back bevel. The main problem with chiseling is the back movement when trying to work to a line. The back bevel reduces that but by only a very tiny amount. I flattened the backs on my chisels, but I don’t think it makes much difference, unless you have bought rubbish.

[@jakelilevjen9766]

I might try this trick with a feeler gauge or .005” shim stock. May still reduce the time I spend flattening while keeping the back bevel small.

[@mohdalisyed]

Stumpy, I saw this video as soon as this video came out. And this has been stuck my mind like a bad song which becomes an uninvited guest in your brain and just won't leave. Weather or not this works aside, but this video is certainly provocative! And of course, I will try this on my cheap chisels (which is all what I own) Great video my friend!

[@jons2447]

Thank you, Mr. Nubs! Good to know!

[@kazinix]

My personal reason for not appying it on chisel is that flat backs for work just fine. For sharpening, they have small back surface, they are so easy to strop every sharpening session or you can even use stone everytime if you need/prefer. Hand planes are different story.

[@realFranklinfurter]

I love the "let's just try it" method.

[@davidgagnon2849]

Another great video, James. Thanks!

[@ditzydoo4378]

When facing the reverse of Irons and Chisels. I follow my Grandfather's rule. We keep a 12x12x1/2 inch trued/polished granite tile in the shop mounted to a piece of marine grade plywood. When the time comes you take a piece of 600 grit garnet/metal sanding paper and lay it face up, attached with a paper-glue stick to the stone, then polish the back of the steel till level.

[@johnlundberg5705]

I will try this. A good hardware store will carry shim stock in different thicknesses if you want to try different micro bevel angles.