Debunking The 2008 Formula 1 Title 'Controversy'

[@TommoMcCluskey]

Classic BMPH banger. 👏

[@Dihya_001]

Tommo u guys need to invite him to the last lap for a race watch along :-⁠)

[@Well_be_right_back]

@@Dihya_001 FR

[@evanroldan9566]

Thank God F1 Twitter wasn't a Thing back then

[@BMPHF1]

True

[@NovaDaGoat]

OMG imagine F1Twitter in Crashgate Ferrari fans would reap havoc

[@PH-jv4ik]

I mean the Mclaren meltdowns would've been fun

[@Lastname6955]

I wish it still wasn't

[@evanroldan9566]

​@@Lastname6955 I know,

[@awesomefacematt]

Exactly! Changing 2008 sets such a dangerous precedent. Not just for all the other years with controversy but it means that every year in the future, the result might be changed years later.

[@steveflatman]

Not at all, in every other year with a controversial ending, those involved have both known what has happened and what the FIA has known at the time, so any legal options have been open to them at the time. In Massa's case he was specifically denied any legal recourse as he was not made aware that the FIA knew about crashgate BEFORE the cut off point for any challenges. The FIA should have informed him and Lewis that the title would be awarded so as not to raise suspicion, but that Renault would be investigated and if found guilty and if the race was voided the result would be overturned. Instead they covered it up to save face, denying Massa any chance to fight his corner at the time, so he's only having to do now what he should have been allowed to do at the end of 2008.

[@Lucaz99]

Who cares? That happens all the time in sports, when people are caught cheating and that clearly changed the outcome of a championship, actions are taken. Titles and medals get stripped away all the time in all kinds of sport.

[@davesiddons8921]

Easily the most sensible take on the matter, and really well put across. Excellent video, subbed

[@BMPHF1]

Thank you Dave :)

[@christianhorner001]

Felipe needs to move on. He'll get no satisfaction going down this path.

[@BMPHF1]

I genuinely feel bad for him. It’s a tough sport and what happened to him was extremely difficult to bear. He definitely had moved on initially, but Ecclestone’s (of all people) comments seem to have struck a chord with him all of a sudden

[@josiahboatengmyrie]

@@BMPHF1 the fact that eccelstone said this knowing his history of degrading Lewis for me takes all credibility away from this scenario the guy will say and do anything he can to make Lewis seem lesser and I’m sure it doesn’t take a genius to know why the reason why

[@RukaGoldheart]

​@@josiahboatengmyrie Ecclestone has always been and will always be an asshole.

[@ryanjonathanmartin3933]

@@josiahboatengmyrie He's still angry with Lewis for criticising his "black people can also be racist" comments in response to F1 supporting the BLM movement.

[@blueninjasix]

If a team cheats during a race - you disqualify that team - NOT THE WHOLE RACE!

[@swampthing94]

Massa deserved the championship as much as Lewis but crashgate wasn't Lewis' fault and the result should be left as it is

[@oldschool8330]

Yup. And it wasn’t anyone’s fault other than Ferraris for messing up the pit stop.

[@swampthing94]

@D-Fens Foster If this can of worms was to be opened the history of F1 could be rewritten, and I don't think anyone wants that. Senna 89 champ? Prost 90 champ? Schumi's 94 title taken away? And all sorts of other shenanigans. I screamed at the top of my lungs when Seb passed Lewis in Brazil and it sank to my stomach when IS THAT GLOCK GOING SLOWLY??? happened but still, what's in the past is in the past. Perhaps Ferrari should've begun the sabotage of Kimi a couple of gp's earlier? 😉

[@swampthing94]

@D-Fens Foster Perhaps

[@robertjanwestendorp3718]

In other sports the win is taken away when the fraude is uncovered. This should be the rule in F1 as well! Otherwise its a jury sport with very unfair decisions which decide championships.

[@visiblyvisible6451]

With Massa's logic then Hamilton would also want the spa 2008 penalty reduced which would see him win the race ahead of massa and Alonso and still win the title by the same margin lmao

[@oldschool8330]

5 seconds instead of half a minute. Which is basically a drive through penalty. The harshest penalty that can be applied before disqualification. When he gave the place back after being forced off the track by kimi. Who smashed his car up 3 corners later anyway. That was scandalous from the fia.

[@mindujiman]

If they still losing points at this rate, some day Kubica will get the 2008 tittle

[@Lastname6955]

I refuse to believe that Max Moseley wouldn't have tried to take away a championship from Ron Dennis, so he can't have been aware.

[@BMPHF1]

That’s true lmao. Would’ve been so petty

[@dazuk1969]

That's true, when McLaren got fined 100 million for the Ferrari scandal Moseley later said "20% of the fine was for the McLaren infringement, and 80% was because Ron Dennis is d*ckhead".

[@Nexus1x]

How anyone talks about Singapore 08 and act like spa didn’t happen is always funny to me. That was the most obvious case of Ferrari favouritism I’ve probably ever seen

[@BMPHF1]

Yeah Spa ‘08 was crazy. Even now, the same penalty for similar incidents was never applied

[@oldschool8330]

What was it 25 seconds for gaining an advantage? When he actually gave the place back anyway. (After being Forced off the circuit by Kimi who binned it 3 corners later…) absolutely scandalous that was. You only get 5 seconds for smashing a car off the road nowadays! Massa argument was you never saw overtaking on the straight down to the la source hairpin. I’d argue that due to the wet conditions, overtaking takes on a new dimension. You see overtakes around corners and parts of the circuit you’d never see in the dry!

[@Nexus1x]

@@oldschool8330 yep, absolutely spot on. It’s the fact they told Lewis what he did was fine only to penalise him after the race for a rule that wasn’t even a thing until the next race which bothers me the most. FIA - “Ferrari International Assistance” has never been so clear.

[@MrRodzilla]

hamilton cheated at spa, he cut the corner and gained an advantage even if he didn't cheat at spa then he cheated by keeping quiet about the mclaren stealing ferrari tecnical data and sabotaging ferrari races, hamilton tried to cheat to win and then when he failed in 2007 they tried to cheat by protesting against another team and get them disqualified lol, total no class cheating (btw im talking about 2007, not when he also lied and cheated in 2009)

[@MrRodzilla]

@@Nexus1x ferrari international assistance forgot to disqualify hamilton for the 2007 season for stealing ferrari data, mclaren international assistance

[@Well_be_right_back]

Another brilliant take man keep it up. Yeah I agree this is simply a ploy to tarnish and taint Lewis’ legacy. Like you said if this ever under any circumstance gets overturned then there will be a whole new can of worms where teams and drivers will be pushing the fia to overturn a result in their favour and create conspiracies possible. Like Mercedes actually go to court for Lewis’ title in 2021 over what happen in Abu Dhabi or Ferrari conspire wether Paul Di resta’s crash in Brazil 2012 was an accident or a planned sabotage so that Alonso couldn’t win the title. So like you said this would set a dangerous precedent for the sport going forward

[@larsoftheredhotlovers6220]

A fair point but the main difference here is that the FIA swept this under the rug at the time. Had they followed through with the information they had in 2008, the race would have been rightfully overturned and Massa would be champion.

[@redd8531]

@@larsoftheredhotlovers6220 Massa still wouldn't be champion, Lewis would be by the points whether he won by 1 or 3 points he would still be the 2008 Champion and Alonso and his team would be disqualified.

[@larsoftheredhotlovers6220]

@@redd8531 How would he still be champion? Lewis would lose his 3rd place which gave him 6 points. If Singapore was cancelled, Massa would be ahead by 5 points.

[@oldschool8330]

@@larsoftheredhotlovers6220 unless Renault also sabotaged the fuel hose/Ferrari pit stop system, then there was no direct impact of the cheating by Renault. You could only disqualify Renault from the race in terms of fairness. Lewis and mclaren wouldn’t deserve to lose their points achieved in this race. They didn’t make a mess of their pit stop.

[@larsoftheredhotlovers6220]

@@oldschool8330 On the contrary, the put stop should never have happened. Several cars also got penalties as a result of Renault's tampering of the race. I agree that Lewis was not to blame for benefitting, but the fact is that whole race was compromised and changed through illegal methods.

[@BOABModels]

Even if the result was changed way after the fact, if we use the examples of the Tour de France and Italian football, titles were not reattributed. Lance Armstrong had his 7 Tour de France titles stripped for doping violations and Juventus had their 2005 and 2006 Italian championships stripped for the Calciopoli scandal. As that was uncovered in 2006, 2nd place Inter were immediately awarded that year's title but the 2005 title was left without a champion, just like Armstrong's titles would be. This is of course not even recognising that Hamilton had done nothing wrong in 2008. Stripping his title due to Renault breaking the rules is absolutely bonkers.

[@shakesnbake]

Bernie needs to go to his old peoples home!!! He's so hellbent on diminishing Lewis's legacy!

[@vitreo1363]

This is nothing new from Ecclestone; the guy is clearly pissed that the sport is booming right as a new owner with modern business acumen takes over, and is bent on causing as much controversy as possible.

[@ryanjonathanmartin3933]

??? Why do people still listen to a man who is at least partially responsible for effectively ensuring that only three teams on the grid would be capable of winning F1 GPs for nearly a decade?

[@ArunSapaare]

I wasn't watching F1 back in 2008 but I can totally relate to the feeling Massa had & it is very parallel to what Charles might be facing since 2022. You put so much effort into what you do & dedicate yourself to everything that has to be done to win the championship but the team let's you down making crucial mistakes & the car's reliability is also very poor. Having fought so hard, at the end of the day, it must be heart breaking to see your rival winning the championship. Same applies to Fernando too. Great video mate, keep up the good job! Cheers!

[@BMPHF1]

Thanks Arun! I definitely feel for Massa too. Winning the championship in Brazil having driven the way he did would’ve been one of the most iconic moments in history. Definitely would be considered a great for that moment alone. I also think it would’ve done a lot for his confidence

[@mazzae6084]

Tommo sent me and I’m happy to stay. Top content!!

[@BMPHF1]

Wommo F1. Thanks for watching :)

[@huewright1492]

Well balanced and comprehensive. A particular Animosity towards Lewis and his remarkable success seems to run very deep.

[@BMPHF1]

Thank you. It’s sad to know how much people within his sport try to discredit him. But when he retires, I everyone’s sentiments should change (hopefully)

[@tomaslpg]

Saying Massa's incident in Singapore had nothing to do with Crashgate is bizarre. He only stopped BECAUSE of the Safety Car, and in addition, Ferrari had to rush the pitstop in order to perform a double pitstop with him and Raikkonen. If Piquet Jr didn't throw his car at the wall purposefully to benefit Alonso, Massa's strategy would be obviously different than Kimi's and they would have different stops, meaning that none of it would have happened. And EVEN if you consider that the fuel hose would stuck because, idk, fate, crashgate still makes a lot of difference, because he got a DRIVE THROUGH penalty for unsafe release (if his pitstop was in his own original strategy, the pitlane obviously wouldn't be as crowded). And beyond that, Ferrari only took a very long time to help to remove the hose because of Kimi's *9-second pitstop*. It's not like today that pitstops usually don't go over 3 seconds. Ferrari pit crew had to wait almost 10 seconds to start running towards the end of the pitlane in order to help Massa. So if you're saying that after all that, even if the botch still happened, Massa would fail to score a SINGLE point in the race, I think you really have to watch the race again.

[@robertjanwestendorp3718]

Perfectly described!

[@legendush]

Couldn’t have been explained better. Sure, Crashgate did affect Massas chances, but are we really gonna blame crashgate on a botched pitstop by Ferrari???

[@BMPHF1]

Yeah they could’ve botched the stop at any point in the race. Painful because they had a similar issue with the lights with Kimi earlier in the season (I think Malaysia). Imo they should’ve ditched it and just used the lollipop

[@ryanjonathanmartin3933]

@@BMPHF1 And on top of that, Massa spun off and binned it in the same race. Kimi wasn't as good as Massa overall in 2008 but his first half was VERY strong.

[@MrRodzilla]

the botced pitstop is absolutely a result of the crashgate, massa had a comfortable lead and that turned into ferrari having 0.1 second in hand to get massa out its not the only time massa had a race ruined because of the dumb safety car rules making it a lottery, he had a comfortable lead at the monaco gp but a safety car came out and gave lewis a race winning position simply because he crashed into the barrier and pitted for repairs immediately before the safety car, in any other year massa pits and covers off the field then wins the race and championship

[@stinker5691]

@@MrRodzillaMassa probably still would have lost the wdc ham was just the better driver that year even without crashgate

[@MrRodzilla]

@@stinker5691 no i explained why hamilton was lucky even without crashgate that BS rule of no safety car pitlane entry made it a lottery and he won monaco because he crashed, if he was a better driver and didn't crash at monaco then massa would be world champion

[@marcusstrymon693]

I was such a Massa fan back then. But why tfq does everyone ignore that FERRARI did the most disgraceful pitstop you could do AFTER sc? Completely fucking it up. I was a 13 yrs old kid back then and I was in utter tears litterally for days after the finale. I found my peace with it. But I dont want this championship now. 15 years afterwards. And again, Ferrari fucked up the pitstop

[@BMPHF1]

I also don’t know why they kept using that traffic light system. It failed for one of Kimi’s stops earlier in the season and they continued with it.

[@LiveIRLViewer]

The pitstop would've never happened if Piquet didn't crash on purpose. The victim blaming some of yall do is insane...

[@marcusstrymon693]

@@LiveIRLViewer What about williams and bmw illegaly cooled fuel in brazil 07 then?

[@LiveIRLViewer]

​@@marcusstrymon693 Yes they should've been punished, why would you expect me to say no?

[@marcusstrymon693]

@@LiveIRLViewer And the Mclaren drivers should have been exclused from 07 in the first place anyway... I also get that

[@potatogirlcultist19]

8:52 This is actually the best idea ever. We would get to see Fuji again, V8 engines, three teams who can win a race and a mystery track (since China I imagine still wouldn't open its doors).

[@Enzoblueblood]

A classic F1 season. It’s easy to forget now but the legendary Kimi Raikkonen was favourite for that championship; not many predicted Massa would be the challenger, but all those lost points through team and driver errors: the Ferrari front row lockout in Monaco quali followed by a penalty for Kimi and Felipe sliding all over the place on a wet Sunday. Then there were the spins at Silverstone. Had both those races been a dry race, Hamilton wouldn’t have seen those Ferraris for dust, such was the speed of the F2008. * “he only wins in fastest car” weirdos should pay attention to Hamilton’s bloody-minded opportunism in 2008 despite his own errors that year. This story should have been reported on 1st of April tbh

[@BMPHF1]

Definitely should be an April fools article. Watching the season back, it was also interesting to see how difficult the cars were to drive without TC. Even in the dry they looked like they were on a knife edge. In the wet… it was almost impossible. Silverstone is a prime example. Everyone calling for Safety Cars as they were struggling so much… bar one

[@Max_Flashheart]

Ferrari Pit stops and reliability where have we seen that before?

[@BMPHF1]

It’s a tough life as a Tifosi. They have to be the most mentally tough people on the planet 😂

[@MuhammadNiz007]

If you can challenge anything in the court regardless of the time period than Lewis will win the championship in 2007 because Ferrari on two occasions had illegal floors ( flexi floor ) that was pointed after race but wasn't penalized. 2021 will automatically go to him quote "human error". Also Fernando will get the 2012 championship ( Brazil unsafe car) but Fernando will lose the championship because of the front damper. Lewis will also win the championship in 2010 because Red bull will be disqualified for their illegal floors ( FIA knew they were illegal let them race and when teams protested they banned it but allowed them to keep the result), also Jacque vilneurve will lose his championship for racing fixing ( in the last race he let both McLarens to get 1-2), Senna will be 4 time world champion. These are just few things that will change if this actually goes to Court

[@steveflatman]

No they won't because they weren't challenged at the time despite being known about. The difference with 2008 is that Massa was lied to when he was told he couldn't challenge 2008 because the FIA had no knowledge before 2009, which is now known to be false. This lie robbed him of the chance to make a legal challenge at the time. None of the other cases you mentioned were prevented from being challenged at the time so the fact that they were not precludes any challenge decades later.

[@gizmo-8762]

Thanks for putting this balanced perspective out there for all to contemplate. It’s really sad to see how ppl hate simply because of the color of a man’s skin. That with all the advances we have made as humans; we still can’t see past race!! I pray that objective reality and truth will prevail at some point in this sport

[@meganloreto2918]

thank you so much for explaining this!!! I kept seeing headlines and tweets but didn’t understand. Appreciate all this context :-))

[@BMPHF1]

No problem :) Thanks for watching

[@steveng813]

"The Abu Dhabi 2021 controversy isn't going away!?!", "Quick, roll out Crash Gate"

[@BMPHF1]

Basically what happened 😂

[@samhobbs6517]

He shouldn't be allowed to appeal. Simple as that. You lost the title, let it go.

[@tsheponcamane2018]

That's for this breakdown,most of us can see what Bernie is trying to do,he is hellbent on making sure that Schumacher stays the only 7 wdc in his lifetime and while we can't accuse Bennie of being racist,we can sense high white man arrogance akin to white supremacy tendencies. When Sir Lewis Hamilton said they are trying to stop him,why some did not believe him remains a mystery to me when all the evidence is there to for all to see,Bernie made a threat in that SKY Sports news interview,saying that Sir Lewis Hamilton will never surpass Michael Schumacher as the greatest F1 driver on record.

[@troltroltrolman]

Only controversy is that bmph isn’t the biggest f1 KZbinr yet

[@Caging101]

Well researched and made . Good stuff

[@andrewcarter9649]

Excellent video, completely agree. There's actually more information to back up the FIA not pursuing anything earlier than they did as there was a documentary on Max Moseley released in 2001 with extensive interviews with him. In it he says Nelson Piquet Snr told Whiting about the accident at that years Brazillian GP but in his professional opinion as a Barrister they lacked any real information to act on.

[@mramaz1ngarry728]

Max Mosley wasn't exactly a fan of Mclaren after spygate the year before.

[@BMPHF1]

Exactly!

[@VykronianF1]

Wait I like that idea! Void the title for a 3 race showdown with all the drivers and constructors of 2008. That’d be amazing!

[@MinionInc]

Here's a little something that people failed to notice: During the Abu Dhabi 2021, under the safety car, Max Verstappen legitimately passed Lewis Hamilton under safety car conditions, which is illegal. If you rewatch the safety car incident, when max was pulling alongside Lewis, Max's front wing passed Lewis Hamilton's for a brief second. Enough that if they were racing to the finish line, and they crossed the finish line the same way that Max's front wing was placed infront of Lewis's, he would've been declared the winner by mere split seconds. So technically, Max should have been disqualified or at least given a time penalty. Go back and watch that safety car incident and you'll see maxs front wing pass Lewis hamiltons front wint under safety car conditions. Which is illegal. See 1:38:40 on race replay in f1tv.

[@hanswurst6712]

The only thing which should have happened allready years ago is to disqualify Alonso from that Singapore Race. Its really weird that he is/was allowed to hold on to that GP win.

[@f1racecontrol737]

I am a massive Alonso fan, but even watching the race live it looked dodgy.. But my boy won so YAY!! A year later the truth comes out, "So I was right :) " 15 years later a 852 year old comes out and confirms the race was "Lets call a spade a spade" FIXED!! Then to be fair Massa has a point. The result wont change Lewis is 2008 champ.. Max is 2021 champ

[@BMPHF1]

I agree it won’t change anything. There were grounds for Mercedes to appeal 2021 but there were other reasons they didn’t pursue it. But had they done so, it was almost guaranteed they would’ve won the case. But there’s very little satisfaction in doing that

[@jvaddison]

​@@BMPHF1I'm sorry man, but, to see the smiles wiped off max and horner face, would of been priceless. Lets not forget either, the outcome in 2021 was sooo corrupt.

[@EfftupSmith]

Thankyou for this!! It seems you and I are literally the only 2 people who bothered to check the regulations. NONE of the so called Motorsports Jouranlists seem to have done so. Or maybe they have and know this is a nothing story but just reporting what Bernie said was good for some clickbait headlines.

[@CameronMcRae09]

The thing about Hamilton’s Spa penalty is it was all the stewards could do. Hamilton did gain an advantage to overtake Räikkönen by going off the track. The fact that Räikkönen later spun out is irrelevant (same with the Sainz/Alonso incident from Australia this year). And unfortunately the 25 second penalty was the least severe punishment available to the stewards. Today it would be a 5 second penalty and everyone moves on but in 2008 the only options were 25 seconds or disqualification

[@daraclancy2875]

I'm inclined to believe Eccelstone's version of events because it's the version they come out worst in. There's incentive for them to lie about not knowing - It protects their reputations and legacy - but why on earth would Eccelstone lie about covering up a scandal? It just makes him and the others look bad, he gains nothing.

[@BMPHF1]

Ecclestone is at the point where he’ll just say anything. I’m sure there’s much shadier stuff he hasn’t revealed yet, but if you asked him in an interview, he’d probably tell you

[@Baxteen1]

If massa takes legal action and somehow wins the case there are a bunch of championships that change because of the president set. Net effect would be a rookie winning the title in 2007 based on the fuel cooling at Brazil. Hamilton taking 2021 (rightfully) so sure he looses 2008 but gains 2007 and 2021 making him an 8 times world champion. While also likely stripping one from shumi making him only have 6.

[@jaegerman66]

The only way any championship challenge could hold up is in this unique circumstance, where the former boss admits/ exaggerates that they knew they should have done differently. Because him admitting they knew about it but didn't want to ruin F1s reputation by bringing it up before the end of the year implies corruption at the administrative level. I can't think of another race other than this one and Abu Dhabi 2021 where F1 brass acknowledged/ knew they made the wrong choice with enough time to cancel the result but didn't.

[@BMPHF1]

That just sounds like a mess that would turn F1 completely on it’s head. Gaining a title like that brings no satisfaction for anyone

[@vitreo1363]

@@jaegerman66 Even then, Bernie's testimony wouldn't be admissible for the sake of challenging the 2008 title, purely because we KNOW he lied about the FIA having the ability to nullify an entire race, even if they had investigated it immediately. And that's before you even start arguing over how impractical and unfair it'd be for more than a dozen other drivers who did nothing wrong… to have their achievements invalidated over something ONE driver did to cheat.

[@jaegerman66]

@@vitreo1363 That is true, but there may be a little more to it than that, as we know what the sporting code says, but we do not know whether the Ownership group reserves the right to intervene independantly on issues, which it sorta sounds like he implied. It would be dicey, and I doubt it holds up, but worth considering.

[@vitreo1363]

@@jaegerman66 Wishing for ownership intervention just sounds like desperation hour; if the F1 management hasn't intervened for Senna after Balestre's well known admission, they're sure not gonna go out of their way to do it for Massa, especially when it's so clearly another one of Bernie Ecclestone's grenades to try and make problems for FOM, even if it was legit. Give it up; it's a fool's errand, regardless of what angle you look at it from.

[@fortijr]

Always great content! I really appreciate your clear, well researched insights. SkySports or another media outlet should hire you!

[@SamuelSantos_]

If the 2008 title was overturned all these years later, several former drivers/deceased drivers' families could come forward with accusations regarding other controversial seasons (such as Carlos Reutemann who was rumoured to be cheated out of the 1981 title due to Bernie Ecclestone giving Nelso Piquet and Brabham preferential treatment). If anyone should be punished for Crashgate, it should be Renault, since they're the ones who committed the offence. It's the same with match fixing scandals in other sports, such as Juventus being disqualified from the 2004/2005 season of Serie A.

[@jaegerman66]

Massa's performance in that race is totally irrelevant to the actual situation. Massa only ever considered this expressly because Bernie came out and said they should have done it, and he essentially felt guilty. This doesn't need to turn into a smear on Massa, or even on Bernie's "mental state" because he's the only person who's word counts in this situation. The only facts that need to be considered are that Bernie said it, and if he is willing to back it up in court, then yes Massa could potentially be Champion. Most sports handle "result-manipulation" ie. Cheating, in this way. As someone with no horse in this race, I want to see it resolved in a fair way, and I'm not a huge fan of this whole 2 sided war: "we must go to the ends of the earth to tarnish/ maintain" Lewis' status in the history books. He's gonna go down as one of the all time greats regardless of if he has 2008 or if Massa does. Now if he had been a sore loser and complained from day one and boycotted F1 events over it, then sure I'd say it is worth scrutinizing Massa over it, but bear in mind he was just essentially told by the former F1 Boss that he should've actually had his lifelong dream. That's not Massa's fault for wanting to look into it.

[@danieljakesouza4011]

4:43 WOAH ok, brazilian here, nelson has not said the n word, he said "neguinho" an slang based arround "negro" wich is how the brazilian black comunity has stated for decades now is the right way of being called, saying it has the same weight of the n word is absolutely immoral, as that woud be more in line with: "criolo", and even then, it isn't the same, as i am here saying it without any issues, brazil doesn't have the same level of racism that the european and north american have, impying so, is ignoring our culture and if the lawsuit was on a brazilian's court, it woud never be won by mr. hamilton sorry for commenting something out of what is the actual debate of the video, just trying to bring a light

[@Chris-jt4ux]

yeah. he did say the n word. try again

[@danieljakesouza4011]

@@Chris-jt4ux vai se foder Krl, "crioulo, negão, Tizil, preto" tudo isso é muito mais pesado que neguinho, ainda mais numa frase como "neguinho é foda"

[@emp.splash]

Couldn't believe it when I saw news of this. I completely agree that this stunt is meant to tarnish Lewis' legacy. Personally, not surprised Massa would take part in something like this, I never thought much of his character, to be really blunt. In the end, this tarnished Massa more than Hamilton. And once again seems to only underscore, by contrast, how gross and wrong the whole situation in AD2021 really was. Cheers for making this vid, the voice of sanity is always welcome!

[@vitreo1363]

It is an attempt to tarnish Lewis's legacy… but not by Massa. This is all the handiwork of Ecclestone, who seems to have made it his mission to discredit and cause issues for the sport, but more personally for Lewis, who has spearheaded the changes and initiatives that Bernie always opposed before he was unceremoniously (and rightly) ousted from control. The guy is clearly still pissed about the sport pushing him out for his bigoted and archaic views that held F1 back for so long.

[@Chyeahokay]

We all know the 2008 Singapore gp was a farce. So I don’t think it should count personally. But to blame massa for the recent issue is crazy.

[@woodduck2178]

Massa had the championship wrongly taken from him, he has every right to appeal it. Ecclestone on the other hand is the one who needs to be punished. For you to blame Massa really just shows your British bias.

[@emp.splash]

@@woodduck2178 I'm not British and I'm not blaming Massa. Just saying he tarnished his reputation by taking part in this stunt.

[@emp.splash]

@@Chyeahokay Not blaming Massa. This stunt was not started by him, clearly. Just think he tarnished his reputation by taking part in it, or allowing himself to be used as part of it. Can't believe this was even a serious discussion he had, with lawyers and everything.

[@bowantoia8536]

Bernie Eccleston will always take pot shots at Lewis.

[@jinaysanghvi6959]

Exactly my thoughts, put into words. Thanks for this one!!🤜🏻

[@valkenburgert]

8:16 “this was a direct result caused by the officiators themselves”. So was 2008 because if the regulations were followed the race would have been scrapped. 2008 is exactly like Abu Dhabi. In Abu Dhabi Mercedes didn’t dare to pit, that’s exactly like the failed pitstop in 2008 yet you suddenly don’t take the tactical blunder in Abu Dhabi into account. 2008 was a stolen championship because the FIA wanted to protect the image of the sport. No matter what anybody says. That argument I can make as well, very weak. So I merely repeated it for comedic effect.

[@oldschool8330]

It isn’t exactly like 2008 at all. Mercedes not pitting wasn’t a tactical blunder. They executed their strategy for this moment based on the regulations as they knew them. Which was correct. The only blunder came from race control. Massa’s pitstop was an indirect incident from the deliberate actions of Renault. Not direct. If pique had punted massa out of the race or sabotaged Ferraris pit stop system, then you’d have a point, but they didn’t. It was still in their hands and they fucked it. It wasn’t in Mercedes hands in 2021. Whatever they did it would have been wrong. Had they pitted Lewis. Red bull would have stayed out, ergo no pressure from Christian Horner and Jonathan Wheatley to restart the race illegally. And clearly the higher ups would have made sure they got the winner they wanted (max). I am connived Masi was under pressure from his bosses to restart that race and he’s just the scapegoat.

[@valkenburgert]

@@oldschool8330 In the context of the argument I linked to with a timecode 2008 was identical to Abu Dhabi because in both instances regulations were not followed and in both instances questionable decisions by the losing team were made.

[@EfftupSmith]

@@valkenburgert Except that both myself and BMPHF1 have actually looked at the regulations and there is nothing about nullifying a race. Bernie says he and Max knew about it in plenty of time but Max says Charlie Whiting told him AT the Brazilian Grand Prix after being told by Nelson sr. Chrlie Whiting says he was told by Nelson Sr AT tHe Brazilian GP and immediately told Max. Nelson Sr says he told Charlie AT the Brazilian GP. So you have 3 people whose stories all match up on one side and on the other we have Bernie who we KNOW is spouting shit about the regulations.

[@valkenburgert]

@@EfftupSmith Probably best if you have a closer look at the regulations from that time and actually Google umbrella terms from a legal perspective.

[@EfftupSmith]

@@valkenburgert Or you could just point out the rule e.g. Article 26.4, so I know you aren't just talking shit and trying to send me on a wild goose chase.

[@calliehock6790]

Such great content!! Love this video

[@romano-britishmedli7407]

I wanna believe that Massa isn't doing this to diminish Lewis and his championship (aren't there even comments from him saying thus?) and so still respecting Lewis, but rather getting "justice", in his view. There's still some part in Massa (it seems to me) that can't let go. It's somewhat sad. I hope Massa finds closure someday.

[@anonymoususer8836]

Bernie is misguided and has ended up dragging Massa with him, unfortunately. I, like many other F1 fans had a lot of respect for Felipe, but that has now just gone out the window. I cannot believe what he is trying to do. Sounds like a lost cause even before he begins. Thank you for providing such an excellent perspective on this matter.

[@DanzaKuduroMusic]

Respect out of the window? He lost his championship in 2008 because of the FIA.🤦🤡

[@vitreo1363]

To be fair, Massa appears to only be considering his options, even conceding that it's a long shot.

[@slowspecv69]

Respect out of the window eh. Can’t believe what he’s trying to do? What if what Bernie is saying is actually true? Yeah I’d be pretty pissed on Felipe’s end. It’s not like Felipe is going ape shit and telling people he deserves the championship, he’s saying if these are true he’d rightfully wanna see were he can go with it, I would. It’s an f1 championship. If there’s a sliver of a chance to take it IF whatever is being said is true then go get it lmao

[@jaegerman66]

Massa just heard from Bernie that his dream of being F1 champion should've happened, and he robbed him. What person do you think wouldn't want to follow up on that? Any sane person would, and to imply otherwise suggests that you have no humanity, you are a diehard Lewis fan at the expense of all else, or that you just lied and you didn't actually respect Felipe beforehand. Regardless of if Bernie is trippin, or if he just misspoke, don't try to remove the humanity from the men in the cars.

[@mramaz1ngarry728]

@@DanzaKuduroMusic FIA rules meant that at worst they could only exclude Alonso from that race not void the race results. So realistically speaking the FIA kept Massa in the championship hunt by 2 points by not taking action at the time if they had known.

[@jakem5039]

If 2008 was known with evidence before the prize giving, then something should've happened. What that something was is hard to say without Whiting now. This video was good to address what that was, but is extremely cynical towards Bernie and Massa - and I feel as though it assumes malice on all their parts which feels as bad as many who assume '08 wasn't legitimate for this. Good research, but your opinions felt as reaching if not more so in their assumptions than those you were able to correct here so it'd be cool if in future you could provide evidence for those assumptions. Overall, a good defence of the '08 title but felt a little like a Ecclestone/Massa hit piece.

[@vitreo1363]

I mean, anyone who's followed Ecclestone's post racing career knows that he's been bitter against the sport ever since. This is the same guy who, once he was fired from his job for letting the series stagnate, immediately told the event organizers that he had knowingly overcharged them for hosting a race, and that they should be paying less money to Liberty. Dude is going to the grave with an axe to grind because someone at FOM told him he was a disservice to F1, and were proven right now that the series is booming without Bernie.

[@cameronchesters5300]

the thing that should have happened, and what would happen now if something does, is Alonso and Renault are DQ'd from the race results, ironically giving Lewis the title by a bigger margin.

[@jakem5039]

@@cameronchesters5300 Not necessarily, and this is again the issue. The rules allowed multiple punishments and we don't know which would've been given etc. It sounds like that's the one you want to believe so it fits your narrative, and while it may be possible, we will just never know. That's the issue with F1 what ifs. What if AD21 was red flagged? Who would've won? We don't know. We can at best guess.

[@cameronchesters5300]

@jakeM you go by previous precedent, and/or other sports. Both instances see the cheater(s) DQ'd.

[@jakem5039]

@@cameronchesters5300 again, the rules allow interpretation or choosing of punishment so you don't. You can guess, but you just don't know. Depends on the stewards who would've overseen it.

[@southerncomfort1339]

Bernie is trying to SAVE SHUMI 7WDC!

[@lpiavelino6598]

ecclestone’s upset because brazil fined piquet £1m.

[@coppachahta5488]

👊🏾Exactly this All stems from Bernie’s Complete Hatred and utterly Distain for Sir Lewis Hamilton Lewis has been living rent free in his head for Decades now 🤦🏾‍♂️ Thanks for the great Breakdown and Professional analysis of this piece 💪🏾

[@marco_1909]

After the putin comments, how are people still take bernie seriously?? If massa gets the title now, what difference or satisfaction will it give, just let it go mate.

[@kristjanbirnirivansson528]

Since its Felipe Massa I don't really care about the final outcome of the 2008 season, If it had been Rubens Barrichello on the other hand then that would have been whole another ball game far as I'm concerned considering Barrichello's connection with the late Ayrton Senna.

[@menace1thegoat747]

Wel.....l we know 2021 was a robbery, but also in 2007 Ferrari were caught using illegal fuel and should have been disqualified from the last race, in which case Lewis is an 8Xchamp.

[@johno-k]

Brilliant video

[@BMPHF1]

Thank you :)

[@sarthakkk4938]

Great Vid👍

[@vinceire97]

I don’t think Massa or his lawyers expect a change in the history books but rather compensation for loss of earnings if Massa was 2008. That estimate is about $10M. Let’s see if he gets anything. Probably not.

[@matthiascerebri3315]

Both Hamilton and Massa should fight for both titles at the court, not just for 2008

[@reedharper7013]

Boom! This is VERY accurate. Thanks.

[@romaine7lo7l]

Well said

[@MrRodzilla]

this is a dumb video for trying to claim that massa's pitstop incident had nothing to do with piquet crashing, of course it did ferrari would have a normal pitstop margin of about 4-5 seconds because he comfortably led the race, because of the dumbest F1 rule of all time the leaders weren't allowed to pit initially under a safety car (making it open to rigging the race) and so hamilton was right on his rear wing and its now a 0.2 second margin, this is what caused the ferrari guy to have a nervous twitchy finger and press it prematurely but even take away singapore that rule has still manipulated the championship away from massa, in monaco he had a comfortable lead and hamilton crashed and pit for repairs, then a safety car came out and everything massa did right to qualify on pole and lead easily became a disadvantage because he can't stop, and hamilton who qualified lower and crashed into the barrier was a minute behind suddenly has not only his deficit wiped out but effectively a pitstop lead because he had just pitted so if hamilton was a better driver and didn't crash at monaco then he wouldn't have won that race and wouldn't be world champion of 2008

[@garymack4650]

The best thing to do was to disqualify Renault which would give LH44 a bigger margin in his title win. However FIA would want to do anything to benefit LH44. Go ahead Massa but the FIA should bare in mind 2021 😂😂😂😂😂

[@messianicrogue]

I don't think Massa fully understands the implications of his actions, if he has this gifted to him, every race would then be open to this 'loophole' that would be created, no result would stand long term. Unless of course he has created a specialised law firm and stands to profit from all the court cases and appeals. I think he is still emotionally attached to this, he needs to let it go, it's racing, you win some and lose some. Some of the better drivers never had a sniff at a championship, he had more of a chance than most and didn't have what it takes at the time he needed.

[@drpiv]

Ferrari could've done a clean pitstop and this would likely be a non-issue, same as Hamilton could've put it for tires in 2021 and that would've been a non-issue. You cannot simply excuse bad decisions/mistakes due to circumstances.

[@EfftupSmith]

Except that Hamilton pitting for tires would have been the most stupid tactical decision ever IF the rules were followed properly. If Hamilton pitted under the safety car, Max would have stayed out and instead of harrassing Masi to get the lapped cars out of the way and get the race going, Horner and Wheatley would instead be content to let the race finish under a safety car. It wasn't a stupid decision. Masi made the stupid decision but maybe he could keep a calmer head if he didn't have 10 teams jabbering in his ear at a crucial time.

[@harukaru84]

for all these years his 2008 championship has been viewed as not legit, even though there is not proof of anyone rigging the last race. if one looks at the glock's on board, one realizes that it wasn't just lewis who passed him, but multiple cars including lewis. and on the same breath the same people who scream about 2008 are the same people who keep on telling lewis' fans to get over ad21 because it's an old story, and their fav deserved it and they try to make it as if it was lewis' inability to win the cause and nothing more and no rule was broken etc. the same way the cost cap cheating went under the rag. but anything that disregards lewis' acolytes is spoken over and over and over regardless if it is true or not

[@shig.bitz.3205]

Spot on.

[@robertwhitten265]

Better driver beat better car, end of story.

[@MeRacko]

Lewis has much bigger case for 2021 FIA admitted they made a mistake before the trophy was in Maxes hands iglf anything you should disqualify renult from that race cuz there is a lot of probability thet fuel hose would malfunction in the same way as it did and he would still do a pit stop in that race thinking logically you can see that deleting the race is not a option that makes sense in that case I think Filile is just looking for money and settlement

[@brianhewitt7071]

I'm down for a redo. We get good racing for once

[@cristiansandu7537]

I've been watching F1 since the early '90's and I will put my hand on my heart and say right here and now: the fact that this subject is even on the table let alone discussed is an absolute joke. Very much like Max's 2021 Abu Dhabi ''win''

[@RukaGoldheart]

2021, the least controversial of controversial title wins. Get over it.

[@anthonymanutd7544]

@@RukaGoldheart get over it, Is that aimed at massa.

[@Justeeeevy]

That’s one of the dumbest most backwards thing I think I’ve ever heard out of an older F1 fan.

[@vitreo1363]

@@RukaGoldheart  "2021, the least controversial of controversial title wins." Forgive me for 100% doubting it; I don't remember any other championship where a race director lost his job over the controversy…

[@RukaGoldheart]

@@vitreo1363 meh, less dramatic than '89 '90 '94 '97 '08. The Schumi years alone had bigger dramas that the finale of 2021. But then again, I'm not your average fan who has an aneurysm when my favourite driver doesn't win or is dealt a bad hand.

[@fstlnj29]

It's a great story but I would rather be able to play the lottery the day after the numbers are revealed. What's the saying? Any publicity is good publicity. Regardless this is nothing against Massa

[@MuhammadQasim-ej6hc]

this is just stupid, crashgate was not mclaren's fault so even if a decision is to be made keeping that in view, mclaren shouldn't be punished

[@chrisc475]

Bernie Ecclestone is a ghastly human being.

[@rickslick730]

👊🏾👏🏿

[@BMPHF1]

:)

[@MeRacko]

Why would you even scrap the whole race Massa lost that day cuz Ferrari fuck&%Ed it up they would have do it even if there was no crash

[@seanalexander1984]

I’m sorry to have watched this video so late. This is the best commentary on this issue that I’ve seen. Bravo! Your eloquence and class when dealing with these types of subjects are second to none. Personally I would’ve been a lot more blunt. First off, Bernie Ecclestone is a dirty, stinking liar. a And secondly, straight up, this would not have been a “thing” if Hamilton were white! And lastly, it’s really sad because it’s his own countrymen that are coming out against him with narratives that do not make sense and that are untrue to try to tarnish his legacy because of the colour of his skin.

[@oscarliljegren5799]

Video seems biased towards Lewis, nonetheless history is history. 2008 shouldn’t be changed

[@philliptiestopl1511]

LEWIS REALLY SHOULD BE A 10 TIME CHAMPION BY NOW PLUS THEY WILL DO ANYTHING TO FUCK LEWIS UP NO MATTER WHAT PURE JEALOUSY ALL ROUND I AM JUST GLAD HE HAS A GOOD HEAD ☝☝🔨🔨

[@RukaGoldheart]

Rosberg deserved 2016. And 2021 is far from the most controversial finish, get over it, Lulu will get another shot.

[@slowspecv69]

If he should be a 10 time champ why isn’t he?

[@vitreo1363]

@@RukaGoldheart Getting over 2021 doesn't mean wiping your brain and acting like history never happened… people still talk about Senna being screwed out of a title by the FIA in '89, and THAT WAS MORE THAN A QUARTER CENTURY AGO. So people WILL talk about Hamilton having been maligned by the FIA, decades from now. Better plan on "getting over it"…

[@amart0]

Nothing but facts

[@1nchwonder290]

now debunk 2021

[@beauty.of.the.struggle]

Piquet didn't say the n word, and Putin's war is justified

[@jajasatorashi136]

Putin didn't start the war. Do your research.

[@Chris-jt4ux]

you pathetic neek

[@tkfxhh16]

Yes, but crash to favorite other driver to win.on purpose. creating a red flag. that affect other people race. rule book? it didn't happen before. to create a rule. but in the last race. we got. re posishion to before the red flag. when Alpine crash... the problem. its all happend. to long ago.. to change.. how many year after? i dont see......

[@leoG017]

Anyone here after massa makes it a legal battle?😂

[@erikahuxley]

piquet didn't used the 'n' word, this is coming from a lewis fan, even many brazilian and portuguese didn't take issue with it. and then suggesting Ecclestone isn't mentally stable. thumbdown. i'll make sure your avoid your channel.

[@Chris-jt4ux]

what a pathetic comment

[@ryandavies7978]

Everyone and their nan milking this for content 🤝

[@BMPHF1]

I ain’t even gon’ lie… you’re spot on 😏😂

[@Wib0]

lol, aight...

[@samtavousi2834]

First comment !

[@BMPHF1]

2nd comment!

[@LiveIRLViewer]

This is insane that you blame Felipe Massa for losing that championship. Renault cheated and the FIA covered it up. This is resulted in the Singapore GP results being invalid. Felipe Massa only had that bad pitstop because of Piquet crashing on purpose. This is like a criminal stealing someones phone and then saying its that victims fault because they had there phone out in display at night.

[@vitreo1363]

@BMPH didn't blame Massa… He only said that Crashgate was not the main reason he lost, because a) as he points out, it was not even the crash, but Ferrari's own pit stop that caused Felipe to fall out of the points, and b) even if you could blame the crash and the FIA's presumed cover-up, the fact is that even if they HAD looked at the incident in time, AGAIN, AS THE VIDEO POINTS OUT, the was no provision to invalidate the race as Bernie claims. That's what makes this entire crusade pointless.

[@oldschool8330]

“Only had the bad pitstop because of pique “ I’m afraid the only people to blame are Ferrari themselves. They fucked it. It was still in their hands.

[@FM_Official_2012]

When reporting about any subject, please KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF! Calling someone mentally unstable because it better suits YOUR AGENDA and or opinion is really low and unprofessional!!!