DEBUNKING THE MYTH: Lady Musgrave, George Stiebel, Devon House and Lady Musgrave Road

In this video, I will be exploring and debunking one of Jamaica's most persistent myths-the tale of Lady Musgrave, George Stiebel, and the infamous Devon House. It's a story that's been passed down through generations, yet no one seems to get it quite right. Today, I'm here to set the record straight. First I will unravel the myth, dissect the story, then together we will scrutinize the historical facts that supposedly debunk it, and then, intriguingly, I will debunk those so-called facts themselves. Armed with rare maps and crucial dates, I will reveal a narrative that challenges everything you thought you knew about lady kisgrave rosd. Get ready for a journey through history that will have you questioning legends and rethinking what you were taught.
#Ladymusgraveroad #history #Devonhouse #jamaica #Kingston #kingshouse
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Thanks for watching

[@shevaughnvidal8017]

Bro in time this channel will be the best and most educating platform from Jamaica.

[@yawdnotes6151]

As an academic and lover of history, especially Jamaican history, I appreciate these videos. Just a small suggestion, I find these videos very informative but it would be great if you listed your sources maybe in the description. It could go a long way for credibility. Great work nonetheless.

[@Goldilakh]

As this video highlights, stating sources will only imply a superficial credibility. Making data appear to be information. True credibility must be discerned. Feelings or information written down for historical posterity does not equal factuality. Thank you

[@JacquelineChin-h7x]

I keep saying, the Ministry of Education, should seriously consider hiring Alex, as a consultant on Jamaica’s historical studies and development. He is definitely an asset to our country. Keep the history facts coming and alive , Alex. We are listening and watching. ❤

[@cynthiasteer1199]

Excellent history lesson. Most people don't know that history and geography go together.

[@SmartJohncrow]

Bless Elite fi a put some respect pon Lady Musgrave name! 🔥🔥💯. Best Jamaican history channel pon KZbin rn

[@EliteJamaica]

Thank you for watching

[@daydaykilla]

Bro, do you make money from these?

[@514relaxmode]

Happy Independence Day!!

[@daydaykilla]

@@514relaxmode Happy independence

[@daydaykilla]

@@EliteJamaica I don't know if u make anything from the vids, but I do think you deserve to.

[@EliteJamaica]

@514relaxmode Same to you, thanks for watching

[@CaptainJ555]

I doubt this woman ever lifted a finger much less traveled to Crossroads or to any market! I’m certain she had many helpers to do such menial things. Dem days deh was still brutal for black Jamaicans.

[@althegamer6606]

hey how you doing

[@kandiekane.]

It would be great if a partnership among you, NLJ, and other Jamaican historians could create a Jamaican history curriculum for primary and high schools to teach our origins and the journey to the present. Bring back Civics for Young Jamaicans. Why do we only learn the history of other countries and their people, but not our own? A people ignorant to their past, possess little vision for their future. ❤👍 The traditional social fabric of our Jamaica needs this information and knowledge to survive.

[@marthakidd8737]

Definitely agree

[@godislove1076]

I've never heard of this story before and I'm a born bred Jamaican. Thank you for this bit of history of this island I so love

[@cynthiacatnott9012]

Thanks for dispelling rumors

[@EliteJamaica]

IPTV JAMAICA: www.iptvjamaica.com/? Thanks for your support: Https://PayPal.me/elitejamm Https://patreon.com/elitejamaica For merch, Click links below: Https://bonfire.com/elite-jamaica-merch elitejamaicaofficialchannel.myspreadshop.com Thanks for watching

[@rhule008]

what was life like for mixed race and lighter complexion people in Jamaica back in the 1800s/1900s colonial Jamaica ? do a video on that ..bcuz it seems that group of ppl were very privilege and were able to get education/accumulate wealth ..similar to South Africa[where they are called COLORED] and other countries with a White Minority

[@JacquieGB23]

Thanks for the clarification of this story. ❤️✨🙏🏽🇯🇲🇺🇸

[@evorreid1737]

Many writers love to attract ratings versus facts, and so they rather change the perspective of history to their image thanks for the well thought out logic on historical tales.

[@EliteJamaica]

Blessings

[@berydale]

My utmost respect to you. Your rant was truly valid. I too found that to be the case. I like accurate information and the details to support it! Blessings to you, and keep up the good work.

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for your feedback, and thank you for watching, stay blessed

[@cyberja]

Awesome and well researched brother. Don't stop doing your passion it will bring bountiful rewards in due time ❤

[@HummingbirdJa]

Zwa Zulu Natal is somewhere near or in South Africa/Africa.🎉

[@LivingInTheShade]

Very interesting excellent detective work.

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for watching, please share and stay blessed

[@keithsinclair2768]

Very informative 👏🏾 keep up the good works 💪🏾

[@EliteJamaica]

Blessings and thank you for watching

[@normanredwood204]

I have learned so much from you that I call you, my professor. Keep on doing the great work you are doing

[@EliteJamaica]

Thank you for watching, and thanks for the motivation. Stay blessed

[@angelaforbes3395]

Excellent video contents, appreciate you taking the time to gather the facts and debunk the misinformation that’s being presented to us for so many years. ❤❤

[@Mushroom-z6f]

Thank you Alex for the history lessons it was great listening and learning such history. Great work bro

[@tonytony3491]

Because they are English bro,it would have been unimaginable for a black man to have such influence, particularly during the 1800s,by the time I'm retired I'll have lived in the UK for over four decades, the government or the parish council needs to rename this road

[@My_Yout]

Yo bro, you're a master researcher.

[@EliteJamaica]

Blessings family, thanks for the motivation.

[@EverybodyLuvsFriday]

KwaZulu Natale is in South Africa: Southeast on the Indian ocean shoreline. Which I find very intriguing considering Jamaica was the heaviest leaning against apartheid of the "west indies"

[@winchesterlyon]

Thank you for this.. Somehow, I missed that rumour, but still fun to hear it and you debunking of it.. Well done..

[@teresaj.974]

Hi Alex, I stumbled on to your channel because of this Lady Musgrave episode. I have since flipped through a lot of your episodes but with over 4 years of content it's going to take me several months to binge through it all. But, binge I will, because your channel is fascinating. The algorithm led me to your channel so I am grateful to you and the algorithm. Great work 👏! But, hold on. You just ran through this Lady Musgrave episode like you don't realize what you're talking about here. The first Black millionaire? Dude, Millionaire Profile: George Stiebel. You have work to do 😅! So, let's get super technical here since Blackness begins at 1 drop of Black blood and pedigree was everything back then. George's mother was "of Black ancestry" which means that on his Black side George had a grand parent or great grandparent that was white. Same for Magdalene. From what I could see her father, James Baker was Moravian, no mention of race. I find it very odd that inspite of George having his own ship by age 19 and 3 ships before 1856, her parents were so opposed to the marriage that George and Magdalene didn't get married or have any children until her parents both died. Would Black parents oppose their daughter marrying rich? It says that George was into arms trading and running guns to Cuba from his ships. He was arrested and imprisoned in Cuba, an ex-con, which is supposedly why they opposed the marriage. Really? The abolishing of slavery BEGAN in Cuba in 1870 and ended in 1886 or 1896, I forget. George was arrested and imprisoned in 1844 which was La Escalera "Year of the Ladder" one of the key rebellions in Cuba. Jamaicas first Black millionaire was involved in this-- DURING slavery in Cuba. He was supplying them with guns. A Black man was supporting the revolution. White people think that he's an ex-con. No, this man was a hero. But it was during slavery so he was on the down low. He bribed his way out of Cuban prison, got back on the high seas, made his fortune, returned to Jamaica, took on white government jobs Custos etc. where he used his wealth and authority to effect change for the formerly enslaved in Jamaica, but he did not want jail again, did not want to die, he wanted wealth and status, so he kept a low profile until his death. Lots for you to dive into here Alex. So I began by saying that he grew up with white in both sides of his family and married a woman that was either white or also had white in her family so he was no poor person even before Sigismund gave him the ship money. He dropped out of school at age 14 in 1834 which means that he was educated. 14 is like 3rd or 4th form. Most mulattos did not go to school during slavery in 1834. The apprenticeship began in 1834. He was already in school and dropped out in 1834 so he was in school during slavery. This guy was raised as a gentleman. I ask again, which parent would oppose their daughter marrying George Stiebel???? Moving on...Sigismund was a ship chandler. Chandlers ran the ships and the docks. They knew everyone and were involved in everything. A key role. George was exposed to this throughout his childhood. Is that why he was obviously fluent in Spanish since he he spent his life at sea between Cuba and Venezuela from 1840 to 1870? He was aboard one of his ships when all of his ships were shipwrecked in 1856 and he swam to shore to save his life. A second near death experience. The first was Cuban prison. A Black man that could swim. Sigismund was Hebrew. Jew. ALL of George's neighbors were Jews. Was Spanish the only other language that he knew? Minard. You breezed over the fact that he bought Minard Estate. Dude. Have you never heard of Hamilton Brown 1776-1843? Brown's Town is named after him. George Stiebel bought the estate of one of the most notorious Planters in Jamaica. Poetic justice. Kamala Harris's father is from Brown's Town and a descendant of Hamilton Brown, correct? Great Salt Pond. 99 properties because as a Black person he legally could not own 100 or more. There's too much to talk about this guy. But, you brought up Lady Musgrave so let's examine the white lies from that story. She didn't want to be associated with Lady Musgrave Island? She was modest you say? The lady whose father was in the United States House of Representatives and his brother was a Supreme Court Justice? His other brother, her FAVORITE uncle Cyrus who walked her down the aisle at her wedding, Cyrus from Atlantic Cable Atlantic Telegraph...that Lady Musgrave who was American royalty is who we're martyring as Lady Modest that wouldn't be offended that a Black man owned the Mansion, bigger than hers, down the street from HER? You proved your point that Lady Musgrave Rd was indeed there before 1877 but that is not the same thing as this woman was not a snob or hypocrite. She was a society woman. Women's Suffrage was her passion. George was a philanthropist and she raised money for her charities so even if she didn't have to pass his house to get to market he was definitely a top her list of "Important People." They knew each other. I think she was a hypocrite which was common at the time. She needed his money, that's it. But I didn't know her. Still, she lived in an old Plantation home with hallways and doors and no circulating air. George was building the latest and greatest. Grand mansions on average took 3-7 years to construct even though only WEALTHY people built mansions. George's mansion started in 1879. Complete in 1881. Unheard of. Stop it. She was GREEN with envy. There is absolutely no mention of her and Magdalene together. GREEN with envy. Who built Devon House? Lazarus. A Black man. Not mixed race. Black. Didn't Cyrus enlist Lazarus to help him build Atlantic Cable in Jamaica? Her favorite uncle knew Lazarus long before she set foot in Jamaica. Lazarus's brother was shoemaker extraordinaire. Bootmaker to the stars. Made boots for her husband. She knew George and his neighbors and his network VERY well yet there's nothing in the society pages linking the Cross Roads millionaire club to her? Interesting. George Stiebel was a very very very big deal. A guy in his 20s who was running guns in aide of the revolution was using his wealth to aide the former slaves around him. You need to tell his story Alex. You've got work to do 😂🤣😇.

[@JohnWickman333]

Thank you sir

[@teresaj.974]

The 4 grand mansions at Millionaires Corner Cross Roads Saint Andrew Jamaica George Stiebel (Venezuela Goldmining): Devon House or the Roedean House and Minard House. Louis Francis Verle:y (Blue Mountain Coffee): The Abbey Court House and Cherry Gardens House or Estate Daniel and Eugene Finzi (father and son wholesale, retail, grocery and liquor merchants): Reka Dom House and Glenmuir Estate William Melhado (wholesale and retail merchant: Melrose Lodge or Melrose Mansion Moses Delgado: Newcastle. Do you think that the M. Delgado that you referenced on 5 Port Royal Street KGN, is his father, Manasseh de Isaac Delgado? When George Stiebel's daughter, Theresa Josephine Stiebel-Jackson, passed away in 1922 Devon House was purchased by Reginald Ernest Henriques Melhado. Purchased by the neighbor?

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for this information

[@nevillebassey1698]

In the Town square of Port Antonio there is a market and its name is Musgrave Market growing up there I was always intrigued about who is this Musgrave person they name the market after.

[@EverybodyLuvsFriday]

Wow what tremendous undertaking to find these facts as per fragmented and scattered historical documents👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾. I'm still watching, so while I'm wondering what became of the Stiebel (sp?) name in Jamaica, I might find the answer as I continue. I just had to pause to applaud your commitment to the work that you do. Truly inspiring me to set aside time to investigate more thoroughly. May G_d continue to Bless and Prosper you 🙏🏾

[@EliteJamaica]

Thank you for your feedback and thanks for watching

[@rwong-u2v]

my youth, we watching you from St Thomas. you doing some really good works keep it going..blessup

[@EliteJamaica]

Blessings to you and your family thanks for watching, stay blessed

[@patj2205]

I BECAME AWARE OF THE HISTORY OF THAT ROAD NOV. 2023 BY COINCIDENCE WHILE ON VACATION; ON OUR WAY FROM "DEVON HOUSE" ICE CREAM FACTORY. THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION. WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST; MOVING FORWARD. 24/08/14 CANADA.

[@BushaBandulu]

10:08 Rahtid!.. What a revelation!…

[@chrishypetv8148]

One thing I would like to ask, what was the name of the road before it was name Lady Musgrave road and when did they change the name. Also can you find the commission date when they change the name in Lady Musgrave honor.

[@BushaBandulu]

19:38 THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THIS. A lot of history is based on emotions that make people feel good while simultaneously paralyses thinking and cultural & psychological progression

[@alamg043]

I agree, a lot things in history are just an assumption ,and not reality 😅😂😂

[@donaldwilson1065]

Great job my brother, you are the best at what you do ❤

[@carmencetamalcolm1919]

Thank you, Alexx. Very informative.🎉Time things change. All a dem name fe change.

[@lionhead1193]

Respect 🇯🇲👊🏾

[@nerdknowledgeunlimited6023]

It's in South Africa.

[@EliteJamaica]

That's correct, thanks for watching and participating

[@HummingbirdJa]

Someone got there first 🎉

[@MrBloodbank25]

Great research

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for watching

[@christopher2944]

Well done, I think you should write to the gleaner and dispel this myth!

[@baldscott9191]

Didn’t hear him mention that his father was a German Jew. He started out with some Privilege. Also probably was not viewed as black but. Mulatto. Again cannot apply todays standard to the 1800’s standards.

[@nerdknowledgeunlimited6023]

Love your channel.

[@EliteJamaica]

Blessings

[@DJ4941Official]

Great program

[@kennedysingh3916]

Very interesting.

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for watching

[@monicagooden1992]

Whenever I am in Jamaican it's a a Moss go to Devon house but I did not know the story thank you for sharing

[@EliteJamaica]

Thank you for watching, please share, stay blessed

[@matthewreid6240]

Good work bro I like your diligent research,i know Simon Taylor road i always used it as a short cut to get on to Spanish town road from Olympic way.

[@EliteJamaica]

Ok thanks for your feedback and thanks for watching

[@hannahoron9740]

Interesting stuff! I do prefer your field trips, though. Jah bless!

[@damionevans3973]

Great video... but you said in the video and highlighted that the road existed in part and wasn't completed until after the Musgraves took up residence in King’s house. Therefore, the video is inconclusive because the road was possibly named after the Mushraves arrived on the island. Also, where are your sources? Us academics love sources lol

[@chickodeleon3962]

Thank you for your good kirk. The NLJ explicitly stated that it was a rumor. At no time did they say the story is factual. Anyway, as they say, in Jamaica, if it nuh guh so, it go near suh. The tone of your piece, though I appreciate your work, is implying it's absolutely a myth. Come on, man, you with ALL your chest defending this lady.

[@EliteJamaica]

Yes it is indeed a myth. 100% myth. DEBUNKED. Why use a rumor to describe something factual? The NLJ was wrong andbi have been finding wrong info on their sites for a while now. So am not defending anyone am just stating the facts and putting the rumors to rest.

[@muzicsean76]

​@EliteJamaica some persons love rumours and myths. From granny tell them it must be fact lol

[@godislove1076]

Go to the National Archive's maybe you'll find a bit of information if you're lucky because everything has to do with any government business, is always atrocious.

[@seanclue6420]

Great work Alex. Great work

[@EliteJamaica]

Thank you

[@HummingbirdJa]

I am now a little intrigued...So, if this lady Musgrave had nothing to do with the construction of the road, why was the road named after her? Did she do something of significance in Jamaica, for a road to be named after her? Have you got that information at all or able to find out?

[@baldscott9191]

How to use a mindset of today and try to apply it to the 1800s. She was the governor’s wife that might’ve been just enough

[@nimble_jim3869]

Catherine’s peak is named after Catherine Long the wife of the governor of Jamaica. Same thing

[@EliteJamaica]

Yea, but the fact is it was named before she arrived on the island, however I am seeing where a plantation owner named Musgrave had property in the vicinity but I am still investigating.

[@nimble_jim3869]

@EliteJamaica yes I agree with you on that point. I was really just pointing out to the OP that you don't have to do something special or great to have a road named after you. Mind you Catherine long was the first woman to climb the 5000ft to the peak so that may have played a part in its name

[@HummingbirdJa]

​@@baldscott9191 Excuse me?

[@adofoi30]

Ummm you talked about a Lady Musgrave Frontage rd title published in Gleaner in 1805? I take it that this is a slip of the tongue as the Gleaner wasn’t seven around then. Great research by the way fantastic article

[@EliteJamaica]

It should be 1905, am sorry, it was a typo in when putting the info together

[@Javihabitomber_]

Kwazulu natal is located in south africa with the capital named durban❤

[@EliteJamaica]

Blessings, thank you for watching and thanks for your participation. That is correct.

[@Javihabitomber_]

@@EliteJamaica well i actually didn't know so i researched it, so now i know somewhere in south africa😍❤️

[@EliteJamaica]

@Javihabitomber_ blessings

[@Javihabitomber_]

@@EliteJamaica no prob love your vids by the way

[@seonlawrence875]

Let's not sleep on this channel... ranked top 5 in ja

[@Itbmurr1]

Great job on this video!

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for watching

[@javidbrown7600]

Question:Are the same guy that do Jamaican Magazine on TVJ (TV)?

[@andyheadley2327]

So could it be that as you find the road Ladymusgrave was there but we dont know if it was named in her honor knowing she is heading to the islands which is quite appropriate then and even now, also when you drive on ladymusgrave today its easy to notice that it was done in phases,from hope road onto ladymusgrave heading sounth towards the end at the stop light where Vale Royal is above, to me is the original ladymusgrave rd during those days it finish there at the stop light, which would make it impossible for her to reach cross rd from there,the additional piece of rd that leaves the stoplight heading to Trafalgar rd which is still ladymusgrave rd then connecting from trafalgar down to cross rd could very be the piece she added to avoid passing debon house, what would be important is to find our what year the additional roads were added.

[@EliteJamaica]

As you notice in the video that rd was there long before they came to the island

[@EliteJamaica]

Trafalgar road to Kings house was already there

[@Yardieluv3440]

Big up yuhself bredren

[@jeffcee9457]

Thanks for sharing i didn't believe that non sense

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for watching

[@calligraphy4851]

No comment..but would love to read her journals.

[@EliteJamaica]

Ok

[@andycyrusac]

This place Natall is in South Africa

[@rhule008]

what was life like for mixed race and lighter complexion people in Jamaica back in the 1800s/1900s colonial Jamaica ? do a video on that ..bcuz it seems that group of ppl were very privilege and were able to get education/accumulate wealth ..similar to South Africa[where they are called COLORED] and other countries with a White Minority x

[@norrisvickers2383]

1877 to what time

[@PaulineJackson-x6f]

Wow interesting ❤

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for watching

[@andreporter6582]

KwaZulu-Natal is in South Africa. From mi hear the Zulu in the name.

[@CaptainJ555]

So how road name after her and she don’t reach Jamaica yet?

[@1uptown]

1uptown

[@richardwalters5747]

A Chinese man once told me. You must never go to your bed without learning something new

[@omaineharris3362]

I learn a lot today

[@EliteJamaica]

Thanks for watching

[@kingnaldo4058]

kwazulu natal is a province in South Africa 🇿🇦 🤔

[@EliteJamaica]

Correct

[@kennoybrown3946]

21:04 Stony Hill Pen back then I assume

[@woodsley90]

Years ago I did the tour of Devon house and the tour guide told the story you just debunked.

[@barringtonthompsonbedascba7855]

This brethren need to acquire a teaching degree and come on in the classroom. We need you to serve the education system of Jamaica .

[@EliteJamaica]

Blessings, I appreciate your input, but once I go in the classroom I wouldn't be allowed to teach the real truth, I would be out of a job very soon. Thank you for watching and thanks for your feedback

[@barringtonthompsonbedascba7855]

@@EliteJamaica you have a point. Even though I teach the some of the misconceptions within the textbooks, I still invite my students to look at the truth and do their own research. Some of these children will understand that their true identity is hidden. I am just looking at a way in which your reach could be extended beyond KZbin to a more intimate setting. Yes you have a large audience and you have done well, but Jamaica can benefit from you level of research and passion for learning in other ways.

[@ramongonzalez6122]

Stiebel was Jamaica's first black billionaire? You sure about that? I don't think think there were even white billionaires at the time anywhere in the world. Millionaires existed for sure, and Stiebel would be one, but billionaires were less likely.

[@EliteJamaica]

Yes he was indeed

[@baldscott9191]

Probably misspoke. Since he used millionaire after

[@lifesunmediafilmsfashionma1485]

Where’s ur proof? I read of this in books growing up also. We ago take Elites work for it over urs. U need more ppl 😂😂😂

[@kwacou4279]

This is a Jamaican channel, so he would be a billionaire in Jamaican dollars and millionaire in American.

[@NicotineRosberg]

U said black billionaire but he was a millionaire not a billionaire

[@Jemineyeofficial]

CAPtivating folklore indeed

[@martinsutherland5502]

His name is pronounced “Stibell” not “Steebl”

[@EliteJamaica]

You are actually wrong, my friend.

[@martinsutherland5502]

@@EliteJamaica Just going off the pronunciation used by a family who had a child at school with me in Jamaica.

[@EliteJamaica]

@martinsutherland5502 ok

[@martinsutherland5502]

@@EliteJamaica Thanks for dispelling the rumour. Keep the content coming.

[@althegamer6606]

the way those guys rewrite the history sounds like their were pretty ignorent ass hats