Deepak Chopra and Donald Hoffman: Reality is Eye Candy

[@marcusantebi4896]

Donald Hoffman comes off in all interviews I have seen him do as a compassionate, humble, brilliant, Yogi! I love Donald Hoffman…….

[@seshsampath]

Chopra is coming from a position of consciousness very clearly explained in Indian Vedic scriptures clearly. Chopra’s disadvantage is talking to people who have grown up in the Abrahamic religions. Vedic concepts like Brahman, the ultimate consciousness, and how maya (Illusions) affect perception and conditions species from not seeing the truth and there is conscious agent within each one of us which we fail to realise and how we lead a mundane life influenced by maya or illusions. Hoffman’s work and concepts are validating what Vedic scriptures have been talking about. Except that Hoffman is trying to prove it. Chopra gets condemned because he is always in the wrong crowd of people grown up in the Abrahamic religions and formats.

[@JoelSimbrow]

I was thinking almost the same thing. I was thinking how Hoffman is at a disadvantage while speaking with Chopra on this subject. Chopra; who is coming from a rich background of stories of non duality as reality, as opposed to the sharp precision evolved from Abrahamic thought.

[@summerbreeze5115]

Now he's assuming that C can be expressed in maths.. Scientists have a little lust on materials you know :)

[@glenndespres5317]

@@JoelSimbrow Interesting idea. I was not aware that sharp precision (scientific thought?) has it’s roots in Abrahamic thought. Where can I learn more about this?

[@JoelSimbrow]

@@glenndespres5317 sharp things tend to do more damage

[@84sahi]

Right I have seen the struggle

[@johnwilhelm]

I don’t know about anyone else but I have been following Hoffman for awhile and the more I work this out the more sense it makes. The overall basis is brilliant. He admits he is probably wrong but if he is not then, WOW!

[@blackspace5342]

I feel he knowsvHe is not wrong, and he know it-MAYBE because he LIVES this lifestyle- as do I. DO YOU? When I'm LIVEin IT YOU can't help VISUALLY WITNESSING the reality changE AROUND YOU, IN REAL TIME. we can't wait for you guys to come out and play

[@solarionispirit2117]

His basic ideas are correct but looking through his lectures I see the same thought package over time and do not see where it evolves. Besides I am a great fan also.

[@brydonjesse]

I feel like my body and my mind are tools I use to interact with the world. I know who I am, I am the universe and this is weird! And I love it

[@bitkurd]

You can only perceive yourself through someone else’s eyes. For instance, I say my phone, my car, my home and MY HAND 🤚!! but who is it owning your hand? You can not identify with your hand or body but you can feel, perceive and see yourself through your hand, body and eyes. There is no difference between you and the universe because nothing is not an option, you wouldn’t even know there is nothing if there is not someone to talk about it, so you, I and the universe are one. The dude that sees behind your eyes is also the same that sees behind my eyes.

[@weareallinthis3668]

THANKS FOR SHARING! ❤️❤️❤️

[@GornubiusFlux]

@@bitkurd We're spiritual beings having a human experience and it's a wonderful thing to be here for it.

[@curtcoller3632]

And then you woke up and noticed you peed in your bed.

[@conscious_being]

"Give me these few miracles and I can build a precise story, that explains all your experiences, without need for any more miracles". Just brilliant from Hoffman describing what science is! Don't know whether he will succeed, but definitely a worthy enterprise. The only issue is, if his hypothesis can make any falsifiable predictions. He hints at being disproved if it can be shown that fundamental particles have _any_ properties when not observed, but that part is already covered by Quantum Mechanics. Don't need a new hypothesis for it. A new hypothesis needs to make a new and unique falsifiable prediction. Perhaps, he will get to it, after developing the mathematics. After all, that is how all scientific hypotheses make their falsifiable predictions, after developing them, not before.

[@richperkins5192]

Brother not that I want to campaign too hard for Terrence McKenna but he has experienced way more than me.. “ as for modern science give us one free miracle and we will explain the rest” . Great concept and so true nonetheless.

[@MurrayCowell]

Watch this other Hoffman video, where he goes into the question of a falsifiable hypothesis in more depth. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJa6eGqulJuMa7c

[@ezza88ster]

Hoffman's the new Einstein! Finally, a mathematical link between current physical theory and consciousness!

[@mfb3042]

Einstein presented the theory of relativity. Your soul vibrates faster than the speed of light. Your soul is eternal.

[@plato2030]

He look up to the mathematical genius of our generation, Nima Arkani Hamed who proofed the general relativity theory is not working anymore, Hoffman mentioned his name a lot in his interviews

[@osterlaich6395]

Conciousness is linked to reality more profound than the observer rebranded as conscious agents. Jesus christ you lot really HAVE TO THINK.

[@sumitraghani]

Unmm, NO

[@sumitraghani]

You know how I know? Because "Genius" Chopra is tooting his own horn through his work and I am only 2 min into the video

[@spiralsun1]

This one video has saved my life. I was losing hope for the future of life before I viewed this. My life reflects the hope of life itself in many ways I have discovered over the years. My mood fluctuates based on this hope. Thank you for saving my life. I used to be Steven E Romer and at one time I wrote a book about these things they are now discussing. In these ideas is the future and salvation of life itself and an end to wars and the blindness that destroys us.

[@grahamblack1961]

You're a racist lunatic.

[@raz0rcarich99]

It's just a model though. How did it revitalize your life?

[@raz0rcarich99]

@@grahamblack1961 ????????? LMAO WTF IS GOING ON

[@sridharr4251]

Awesome. The desktop physical objects or interface introduced by Don is referred to as Maya in Hindu mythology. The universal truth that's outside the space and time (consciousness) is denoted as the bhraman - idealogies postulated several thousand years ago. Now, they were not subjected to any scientific tests, rigor. In that regard Hoffman's work must be really significant🙏

[@ramigm75]

Always love Donald's talks. I just wish he would drive the research a bit harder ... there hasn't been much progress on the research side of his hypothesis for a while now.

[@surfinmuso37]

that is because it is twaddle. He preaches scientism-all conjecture with very little substance. Views like his are rapidly becoming outdated useless theories, nothing more. Lay people coming from different perspectives actually have a better grasp of reality than this hack. He is part of a rapidly expanding group-the ridiculously over-educated. Their schooling makes them blind and ignorant.

[@ryanashfyre464]

@@surfinmuso37 If you have an actual argument to rebut his theory, then by all means feel free to share. All you seem to offer is reflexive disagreement without anything to back it up, which is how a child behaves.

[@kennethcook8857]

@@surfinmuso37: "Over-educated"? Really? So where does the proper "stopping point" exist? What is its nature? Of what is it constituted? Over-educated... Get serious. There is no such thing. One can NEVER learn too much... period.

[@tyriliusmc9798]

Chopra and Hoffman are both tremendous minds of our generations.

[@gotohellfast]

Hoffman is.

[@raz0rcarich99]

4:34 "So for us simpler people, a conscious agent is the ontological primitive that evokes experience". LOOOOL yeah, Deepak, that made it so much simpler...

[@AfterBurner369]

😂😂👏👏

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

The poor man's got it backwards. What is the case, it's just too obvious, when one remembers the early years of one's life, that ontologically primitive experiences build one's conscious agency, brick by tiny brick.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@Selfless Will "not helping Bro" I see, my mistake to use their vocabulary. I'll try it my way... Hoffman asserts that everything is conscious and that is why we are. But if everything is conscious then how is it possible to NOT be conscious like fer instance when we are in dreamless sleep, breathing nitrous oxide, passed out drunk, etc.? Conscious is not a 'something', not ghostly, not a property of matter. Conscious is a process. Process is abstract, immaterial, conceptual and the reason why mind feels aethereal. It should be clear to all who don't believe in magic, that matter is the substrate of the conscious process, that which must exist for the process to be OF. The deepest existential nature of material 'reality' is completely irrelevant because we don't exist, the process of being conscious does not exist, at that lower level. That help?

[@MeRetroGamer]

​@@REDPUMPERNICKEL Conscious is a process, but matter is also a process so... It's practically undeniable by now that all physics are just about processes, not "things". What we see as our "brains" is just what "light" can say about some specific kind of dynamics. It's not actually a material thing, but a system dynamics. There's just "information exchanges", to point it in some comprehensible extent.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Hello @@MeRetroGamer My comment, to which yours is a response, is incomplete and contains only preliminary considerations for answering the question, "What is the nature of that to which the word 'conscious' is referring"? My fault for not returning to complete it. "Conscious is a process, but matter is also a process so... It's practically undeniable by now that all physics are just about processes, not "things"." Conscious is a mode. Being conscious is the process. The existential nature of matter is irrelevant to the conscious process (but acknowledging the necessity for matter to 'behave' the way it does in order to be able to serve as substrate for the being conscious process. It does not matter if matter is a process of energetic ripples in some ultimate substrate or whatever. The fine grained matter process is quite separate and unrelated to the much larger conscious process that involves the behavior of neurons (each consisting of many trillions of atoms organized in many different types of dynamic structures from molecules to organelles to cell walls etc.)). When environmental energies impinge on a body's sense organ, the organ adjusts the firing rate of the neuron that connects the organ to the brain. That change in rate thereby encodes the energetic impact. Millions of sense organs operating in parallel are the source of all one's raw information input. Encoded representation is practically the definition of the word 'metaphor'. This naturally suggests that the firing rate of the axon of a neuron is the manifestation of a metaphor. Thus we are here confronting the very border between the mind and body. Clearly the body, which exists, is serving as the substrate for the being of metaphors. Metaphors are nought but thoughts and the mind, being made entirely of thoughts, is metaphoric in its entire nature. And of course a metaphor cannot be without an existent substrate to provide the components whose behavior IS the metaphor's instantiation. (Which points us at 'movement' as the heart of the matter, i.e. there is no such thing as a standalone movement. Something, matter, must exist before the word 'movement' can have an actual referent). So one of the metaphors that constitute my mind is my 'self' and I have no doubt that there are plenty of neurons participating in its instantiation and that lots of neurons are being dynamically attached and detached according to what I'm thinking. In addition, my self has modes of operation one of which is called conscious and another dreamless sleeping. Those metaphors not currently participating in my self deserve to be referred to as my unconscious, the place where my memories persist when they are not being remembered. It is the modulation of my self metaphor by the metaphors of my unconscious (accomplished via the synapses) that is to what the word 'conscious' is referring. Pretty sketchy and there's lots of details deserving of inclusion but I think this outline is enough to communicate the basics of my understanding of the fundamental nature of my being conscious process.

[@spacejunk0074]

Great to see that "modern" science is proving emptiness that the Buddha realized 2500 years ago. Bravo!

[@syk9855]

If what anything Donald said is true then through the process of evolution we lose more the ability to see the truth. So, it's quite possible that people many years ago were able to see truth easier than us

[@Subudhdh]

Not Buddha but Chandogya and Brihadaranyaka 500 years earlier than Buddha.. the Upanishads.. they teach in no uncertain term that all is divine, thout art that and aham brahamasmi.. all three from those two Upanishads..

[@heavyatheart]

Vedas, upnishadas and Bhagvad Geeta describe Maya in more detail. Both predate Buddha by thousands years.

[@johnkan5619]

The Buddhists had no obligation to be correct

[@bilguunnyamaa7767]

Wtf r u talking about

[@RickDelmonico]

Two interpretations for the single particle creating a wave pattern; 1, the particle has a wave like property and 2, the direction the particle travels in is constrained in some wave like manner. Note; these directions or dimensions could be virtual. My guess would be that reality is emergent and these particles are virtual along with the dimensions, including the time dimension. The idea would be that the macro world in being constructed by the micro world. The constraint is fractal in nature. Truth as a time coordinate; truth lives in the past, the future is uncertain. Truth as a scale coordinate; truth lives in the macro world, the micro world is uncertain. Truth lives in the macro past and uncertainty lives in the micro future. The inside of a seed is larger than the outside of the seed. Inside of the seed is an entire forest. No matter how much information we use to describe a tree, it will always be incomplete. The only complete description of the tree is the tree itself.

[@nobodyspecial2835]

Rick D. Well said.

[@jasminejones9937]

"" what the bleep do we know" !? Is a good documentary that describes what Hoffman is saying...

[@OneBigPuzzle]

I have had the experience of non self through psychedelics. It was extremely scary but the most liberating thing in my life. Its one thing to conceptualize these ideas, but then to experience the reality is very different. Consistently thinking about these things and having those aha epiphany moments will allow you to move between self and non self with ease, experiencing a new perspective free of the boundaries of time and space.

[@jaylinsa]

Personally, I wouldn't call it non self, I'd call it non-ego. I feel like it's more like a revealing of true-self beyond the evolved narrow conception of self.

[@OneBigPuzzle]

@@jaylinsa that is certainly a better way to put it. More of the realization that self is more than ego

[@glenndespres5317]

@@jaylinsa Yes. Ego consciousness is separation consciousness. Ego-less consciousness is Unity consciousness. Only one is Real.

[@blackspace5342]

Finally! This man is describing my EXTREMELY FAR OUT THERE daily experiences as a TETRA FEME/CROMAT. He speaks of women like me at 21:00

[@jzonkel]

u see beyond the usual visual spectrum? i envy you

[@MurrayCowell]

Yeah, my wife has that. We have some interesting conversations about what colour things are, given that we've got the same colour vocabulary but she can see millions more colours than I can.

[@anshanshtiwari8898]

It must be cool how you see the world. But you yourself don't have anything to compare it with.

[@blackspace5342]

@@jzonkel yes & others have see beyond too-in my biofield (6ft!). All had same heart intention- see what eachother sees, be open minded, unclutch from old beliefs and be childlike. It gave us a glympse of the MAGNIFICENT POWER of HUEman Co- Creative Consciousness ( real reason I think they want us 6ft apart). Our Possibilities are infinite! TRULY.

[@blackspace5342]

@@MurrayCowell so fun! I love this

[@John-ob6eh]

Mathematics is an interface that not all can understand. Song and storytelling are interfaces that everyone can understand. We will never fully understand creation, all we need to do is be aware of it, know it and respect its creations.

[@downhillphilm.6682]

you know, i took a lot of pure lsd in the early '70's, the thumb anecdote was very apparent to me from those experiences and it never left me, as well as volumes of other observations that have elevated my life.

[@dag410]

Hands down the best talk.

[@abdulazuzadel4768]

Thank you're, Mr. Chopra and well done. I appreciate your calmness and graciousness. I hope Mr. Hoffman was able to comprehend your lead and take away something from this convrsation.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Hopefully he " took away " the realisation that Chopra is a con artist and shyster whose millionaire lifestyle is funded by gullible idiots like you ?

[@wecas9596]

@@2msvalkyrie529 Such judgmental hubris about a about man politely discussing about our lack of understanding of reality. Overconfidant worthless piece of shite like you should have more humility, if you have to even begin to understand what these two men are talking.

[@kahlread5537]

As for mathematical forms of emotions et cetera, Hemingway wrote: Courage is grace under pressure. To me this offers a structure. Other human consciousness traits might be similarly put or mapped.

[@kumar2ji]

Very entertaining program. Nice fellows too. After silence is more silence. No need to go further.

[@hufclufc]

"Is reality overated?" ........ I need a drink!

[@joegodfree2524]

I love the "fact" that we are possibly wrong, on most levels, objectivism is definitely wrong. ! Subjectivity is half wrong.! INTUITION, is % 2. Wrong . Experiences are nearly right, introspection is always right.

[@theway5258]

I love questions and notes of Chopra! It seems like behind of his questions there is a huge background of Indian's philosophy and meditation retrospective analysis. Thanks to all of you!

[@restorationofidentity]

A crude yet simple way to see consciousness is simlier to "cymatics" functions. The higher the frequently sound the more elaborate the design is! Higher consciousness is like when we turn up the frequency.

[@philipose66]

higher consciousness comes from a better use of language in the discussion between brain and its flesh and blood part of brain we call mind---it is bio feedback. Memory plays a big role, in that the better we recall those discussions, the better we are at using those discussions to move us to a better/safer/more productive place

[@adrianobildhauer5104]

I’ve been reading and watching Donald Hoffman for a while and there’s something I can’t understand yet. If we live in a word of conscious agent. What was there before any conciseness? We perceive the world around us because we’re conscious, but consciousness is a really new fenomenal comparing to the history of the universe itself.

[@briancunningham8557]

before consciousness? there was consciousness of course

[@vickey4sure]

My best guess...There is no concept of space/time in consciousness. Hence, there is no "before". Consciousness gave rise to the universe and space/time as we know it.

[@RIMJANESSOHMALOOG]

They are too close, not enough space between these two icons 😜

[@rockybalboa8378]

Yes, no masks

[@rockybalboa8378]

Oh, this was 2018:)

[@hemant05]

space is an illsuon...duh

[@beatasosinska3368]

Really??

[@RIMJANESSOHMALOOG]

@@beatasosinska3368 didn't get the joke?

[@lummley8885]

Grant me 3 miracles / 3 assumptions (Hoffman, 35:02) 1. Free will exists: 2. Conscious experience does exist. 3. There is a mathematical structure to consciousness I hate to say it, but Hoffman's hypothesis seems inherently flawed. If a mathematical formula existed for consciousness, then it would be predictable, and thus free will would not exist. I could argue this and defend Hoffman, suggesting that the mathematical structure is used to fabricate consciousness, but it doesn't predict with accuracy consciousness's "free will." However, I find these 3 assumptions hard to defend. If there was a mathematical formula to calculate consciousness, then why couldn't "Free will" be calculated and predicted, as well. Therefore, free will does not exist.... Perhaps that is the single flaw in Hoffman's 3 assumptions... Thoughts?

[@briancunningham8557]

Free will both exists and does not exist. OR maybe its the wrong question all together. Math is the best we can do but its still not "it"

[@adrianobildhauer5104]

Have you read Sam Harris’ book The Moral Landscape?

[@briancunningham8557]

@@adrianobildhauer5104 no is it good?

[@firstlast-wb2pw]

Adriano Bildhauer his name is sam harris

[@Cr3atL1f3]

Is it possible that one could have free will of all possible conscious experiences that are mathematically formulated within an equation that calculates consciousness???...If I'm way off please find comfort knowing that my head hurts now 🤔🤪.

[@heloneidaheloneida]

Anyone who has had an NDE knows this even though they cannot read or write.

[@glenemma1]

Deepak : ''What is in the belly of the''computer"? Answer: Awareness....Awareness Being Aware is It. It is not a thing. It is really Nothing. Hoffman : ''We are conscious agents communicating with other conscious agents''. Possibly, it is just one conscious agent ( so to speak ) communicating with Itself. It creates things in order to experience things. And it creates selves in order to experience self awarenesses.

[@coachmurphy100]

Not sure your location but it would be very fun for us to all get in a groups and hash out some this and that’s maybe even with some hash🌿

[@Sethan777]

I call it Abba ;-) 👍👍👍🕊🐑❣

[@AnthonyJohnson-kh8vi]

@@Sethan777 Sprinkle some dmt and we can talk about it. I've seen timeless void and interconnected realities where in between them nothing exists. It gets crazy....👾

[@Sethan777]

@@AnthonyJohnson-kh8vi 👍👍👍 No-thing, but not a nothing. 🕊🐑♥️

[@TheFreddieFoo]

"What's in the belly of the computer?" -> can we even imagine this for current computers?? I'm sure many computer scientists who know everything about a computer can't answer it clearly. It's hard, you can't answer it in an interview. The only thing we can do is increase our resolution on reality, via science and math. Math and Science tools are like magnifying lenses.

[@morbidmanmusic]

No, you can totally explain everything that makes a computer.. code is different. Human error shows up in strange ways.. but that is human based. We can explain computers down to the sub atomic particles that make it up..

[@futureselfnow]

i was hoping deepak would mention something from the seth books, which he read, which discusses at length the nature of consciousness and of “reality”. seth offers much that could be useful to donald’s explorations, such as underlying thoughts are incipient particles made of electromagnetic energy. i wish donald would read seth.

[@travislawrencemusic]

Oh no! Don't tell me Hoffman is associating himself with Chopra🙄

[@JH-ji6cj]

Are you this adamant that free speech needs to be governed and that people get hurt by hearing ideas that don't confirm to their beliefs? If so, I feel sorry for you. Hoffman does an excellent job calling out Chopra for Chopra wanting a free pass to disregard all scientific law if he has a grand mental narrative to supposedly supercede them. Calling Chopra out in a non defensive way also allows Chopra to (hopefully) modify his models that he relays to his audience. Hell, Hoffman himself says that his model may be wrong and that he is working towards exploration of how to proof it (and yes, proof, not prove as it will need many mathematical proofs).

[@travislawrencemusic]

@@JH-ji6cj: to answer your question: no. I bought Hoffman's book precisely because I respect the way he presents himself and his ideas. However, the first blurb on the back of his book is by Chopra and then I'm seeing the association here too. It has made me stall in opening the book, for concern he'll just be another Sheldrake-type hack, I got duped by in my last science-topic book purchasing venture. I didn't bother to watch this video either, as I don't need to hear anymore poo from Chopra's face-hole. I'm glad to see u r reporting that Hoffman is calling Chopra out and setting himself apart.

[@JH-ji6cj]

@@travislawrencemusic well, I'm not sure either. That's the problem with snake-oil salesmen, they either know enough to know more than you and use it as advantage, or they know just enough to believe it themselves and are probably even MORE convincing that way. I've seen Michael Shermer talk with Chopra too and I think it comes down to how carefully you listen to him. My point would be that a lot of what he says has merit and it's the bits on the edges (where his thought experiments are used as proof of concept) that I have issue with. I give him slight passes (or at least I engage with his ideas to see what I think) given how often those with new ideas are squashed and discouraged. I think Chopra uses such scenarios to his advantage at times, and it's why I don't like him myself, but socially I see why others do. Confirmation bias is hard to pinpoint in myself, so I do appreciate you bringing up that he's also in Hoffman's book. Hoffman is human after all, so him using his own fitness payoff of Fame and money isn't a far stretch either, but I think the icon structure of interface and perspective is an interesting model that explains a lot to me.

[@AcerbusCastus]

Humble enough perhaps to be open to points of convergence? Good lesson for the rest of us 😉

[@amantin]

Bro, he associatez with the chair, the carpet, the air....everything. Just cuz he associatez with the cluster of things called chopra... Thats what bothered ypu?

[@AnneWilkynson]

I love this, my 2 favorite subjects complimenting each other! Whoot lol I love both if these Men!

[@SanjeevKumar-hn2ml]

One of the deepest conversation

[@iloverumi]

enjoyed this. thank you!!!

[@vladdraq8186]

Everything is consciousness, experiencing itself, which is experiencing itself, which is experiencing itself into infinity like a fractal.

[@marneninagavenkat7149]

Panpsychism

[@sngscratcher]

On demand rendering.

[@bmillerbiop]

Why Mathematics is Likely Not Fundamental to “Big C” Consciousness This interview wonderfully articulates many things I’ve suspected about the ultimate nature of reality. In the interests of furthering the discussion, I’d like to take issue with one particular point - namely how far down the existential ladder does the discipline of mathematics reside? Around minute 9:40 of the interview, Hoffman suggests: “I think that mathematics is going to be part of the fundamental apparatus of consciousness.[…] that mathematical structure is not divorced from the fundamental conscious reality.” However, he seems to largely walk this back near the end of the interview where, around minute 36, he indicates “… the mathematics is never the territory […] the fact that I can give a mathematical model of consciousness does not mean that mathematics is the consciousness or that it creates consciousness”. The map-vs-terrain analogy was going to be my first point of dispute. A map of San Francisco can be extremely useful - may even save your life - but it is merely a vastly simplified model of the city in entirety. (“Data compression”, as Hoffman refers to elsewhere) Tourists won’t get the full joy of the city simply be reading the map in their hotel room. Secondly, there is a near unbridgeable gulf between conscious experience and what we perceive as physical reality. (That’s why I don’t believe there will ever by true AI.) The physical world is a quantum affair, whereas inner experience is continuous. Mathematics pertains in a physical world composed of discrete units (quanta) that can be measured, counted, and manipulated. Inner experiences however, like love, joy, beauty, artistic appreciation and the like cannot be readily quantified - at least not without degrading them. When such are quantified (and in Western economies priced), then a majestic redwood forest is reduced marketable board-feet of lumber, or love becomes prostitution. That said, I have to acknowledge that I’m not a mathematician, and perhaps there are other maths and logic that are not so dependent upon quantification. In any case, I applaud the efforts to find the union between the spiritual and the scientific realms. In the final chapter of “The Case Against Reality”, Hoffman points out that the pursuit of understanding through argumentation is when reason is at its best. In that sense, perhaps the tension between science and spirituality is ultimately more a blessing than a curse.

[@coachmurphy100]

Bill Miller maths is a symbolic story telling media .. it is not fundamental to anything only the story is fundamental so nothing can be fundamental nothing. It is a story of a thing that tells the story of the other thing that came first and math is just symbolic story representations... 4x4 =8 4 what times 4 what equals 8 what. Story telling is the basis of God and his story is the reason we have the dreams of life. Learn the story of God and you will know that God is and when you know god is you will know that god is that we might have joy. And joy cannot be found without the contrast of pain and anguish so God is that we might have joy and joy is because we transcend pain.

[@doji-san]

Deepak was actually trying to hint at what you are saying.. i think that mathematics is also just a construct of reality (icon on the desktop) that we "made" up to understand the material world... (Mathematics = Material World ) < Consciousness

[@YOumeanMe]

ya i needed deepak to interpret the self assured mathematician's observational statements.

[@wecas9596]

This is a great discussion. But I was waiting for them to mention Kant at some point, but they didn't; and that's my only disappointment. The sync between the Chopra & Hoffman was exhilarating.

[@ther6989]

There are no facts, only interpretations. Variant translation: Against that positivism which stops before phenomena, saying "there are only facts," I should say: no, it is precisely facts that do not exist, only interpretations…" ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

[@bobgreen9897]

I'm confused with an idea guys. Can we just create a machine that can collect data to prove Hoffman correct? Like the way machines we create can capture light we cannot see for example. (X Rays)

[@Videot99]

It's an age old question: Does a falling tree make a sound if there's no one there to hear it? After studying quantum mechanics for years, I still have to believe it does. But people will believe whatever supports their world view. Meanwhile, if Dr. Hoffman is on to the essence of consciousness, it seems likely that the AI singularity will soon follow. Will it be long after that before organic creatures are obsolete?

[@jr6200]

I tended to think that the falling tree with no one around does not make a sound, since sounds are what are heard

[@morbidmanmusic]

Yes. It does.

[@donfields1234]

I wonder if Don has met or is familiar with Tom Campbells work as well. I assume yes, and know Tom would agree with Don's theory as well. I also wonder how long until science and the population in general becomes aware of this? Not to sound boastful or anything but I realized this quite young to a large degree.... that everything we percieve of as being "out there" is merely what and how our minds have compiled our sensory data. I always wondered exactly how another even percieves the world... if we were to swap bodies say, would we notice a difference in the world?

[@whippet71]

Math is not the truth. It just points to truth.

[@rileyhoffman6629]

Thanks for this. Seems probable and true. How is it, though, we all agree, essentially, on what is 'out there'?

[@kipling1957]

I have great respect Dr. Hoffman’s work, but doing an interview with Deepak Chopra was bad judgement and will be perceived by many as a dent in his scientific credibility.

[@JH-ji6cj]

I sympathize with your reasoning, but I think the opposite. While I would agree that Chopra is an opportunist and uses science as a means to his own 'fitness payoff', I think it would be wrong not to include those spiritually inclined to Hoffman's ideas. In a similar vein to how Hoffman also encourages science fiction writers to engage his ideas so that may explore their ideas through the 'interface construct' as well. Vilifying religion is just as bad as vilifying any other disorder as not worthy understanding. Would you be one to think that disregarding the idea of synethesia or that some women (and shrimp) can view a larger range of colors is hogwash or bullshit? How much proof do you have besides the stone tablet of Google to prove it? There are reasons for religions that are scientifically obvious (maybe especially so if Hoffman's hunches are correct regarding fitness payoffs), so the religious need to be aware of scientific discovery and the idea of Ally needs to shift, IMO. Cancer and mosquitoes will teach us things that destroying them cannot I believe.

[@kipling1957]

J H You seem to have generalized my comment to assume that it was a reference to “religion” rather than specifically about the man, Deepak Chopra. This is not the case. I happen to think DC is a money-making charlatan, with so little moral integrity that I would not lump him into the category of religious, so confabulated and ill-conceived are his ideas. What particularly irks is his adoption of scientific terminology used very specifically in physics etc, to give his musings an air of credibility to mostly non-scientific audiences. A watershed moment was witnessing this man of peace and light become increasingly, aggressively agitated during a debate with the calm but persistent Sam Harris as he took apart his rhetoric for what it was-complete nonsense (worth googling). I could imagine valuable and worthwhile discussions to be had with truly religious figures of sincere conviction.

[@JH-ji6cj]

@@kipling1957 fair enough. I too take issue with Chopra for the same reasons (like when he tries to weasel past scientific proofs with Hoffman basically acting as if the generalized hypothesis Hoffman proposes confirms that Chopra can make wild claims without actual evidence). I am at least glad Hoffman specified his need for scientific backward compatability with his ideas in the face of Chopra's weaseling. Michael Shermer does the same with him and though it may give Chopra some credibility with some people who only surface are excited that they are talking to a more reputable source, those people would follow Chopra (and his type) no matter. A careful listening will catch Chopra for what he is, Cult leaders are considered charismatic for good reason.

[@InnerLuminosity]

Deepak is just an Icon

[@JH-ji6cj]

@@InnerLuminosity drop the *I* in Icon and I'd agree with you!

[@EskeAndersen]

I'm sure this is just me not getting it, but it seems that Hoffman is saying two things that seem to contradict each other. He notes that 1) "our experience is the final reality", but 2) he also doesn't believe in solipsism, i.e. he does not believe that the symbols we experience correpond to nothing. I guess this is a question of definition, but can anyone explain this apparent contradiction?

[@alloneword154]

He says our experience is actually only existing in A reality that hides the true reality. Basically we can only comprehend the desktop icons because the true inner workings of reality would be to complex for a homo Saipan to understand. We see just a tiny sliver of reality so that we can keep ourselves alive. If we saw everything the way it really is then we would basically be so overwhelmed that we would not be able to survive. We see symbols of mathematical code that we associate to objects. Their waveform collapses into what we decode and construct as an icon. Most likely the real reality is just wave probability

[@walteralter9061]

@@alloneword154 This transcendental reality that is dangled like a carrot in front of humanity, is our stolen birthright and the thieves who took it need to pay. We're all spiritual hostages. War in Heaven.

[@InfiniteEchos]

Everyone have a little sprinkling of DMT on their cornflakes and then reconsider their position on this 🤔

[@spiralsun1]

Universal Peace DMT is a naturally occurring molecule in the brain.

[@catQueen14285]

DMT is not oraly active

[@InnerLuminosity]

5meo dmt

[@jzonkel]

@@oinkooink People who do drugs because they're cool do cocaine and vape nicotine.

[@Videot99]

Hopefully you were speaking metaphorically. I believe that ingestion through the GI tract would cause DMT to be broken down long before it had any effect.

[@damonm3]

They are oddly close 😂

[@NWLee]

So many of these theories rely on "constants" which aren't constant and are approximations instead.

[@surfinmuso37]

nothing is constant...except change.

[@stevecoley8365]

Exactly. Paradise is not sunny beaches on tropical Islands. Paradise is joy, beauty and harmony.

[@bigcheech1937]

Thank you for the video. I just subscribed.

[@jugsewell]

If Deeppockets Chopra can be taken seriously, then I have no qualms about mentioning (along with others) The Critique, with a special emphasis on Schopenhauer's analysis.

[@Ray3645]

I thought that trying to understand Tom Campbell was tough, but this guy's even harder to follow.

[@kevinr662]

You can look into Tom Campbell who expounds this very clearly. He was a student of Bob Monroe and explains it metaphorically a little clearer for the layman. Tom is a physicist and dealt with this issue scientifically and has proposed and in the process of testing this theory with designed scientific experiments. The experiment are in the process of being set up and the results can be astounding for our future. Tom has also published physic papers on this. I think Tom has gone even further as he has the advantage of going out of body and performing experiments in other constructs. Here is a very simple mind experiment to prove this construct.. Gather 10 people in a room and put a pencil on a table, ask everyone to draw the pencil as they see it. You will find that everyone draw the pencil about the same but not exactly the same. It shows that the perception of a thing is relative to that person. If we had a deterministic objective reality everyone would draw the pencil the same ( with some minute allowable difference)

[@2msvalkyrie529]

er......what conclusion should we draw from this astounding revelation ...? Have you informed NASA ?

[@kevinr662]

@@2msvalkyrie529 for you it would be exercising your brain a bit more. This was written very simple so even someone like you should have understood. Instead of being a smartass read it over again and see if you can even get close to an idea..

[@dankleffmann2473]

This might seem unimportant and silly to most, but I think it would be a good idea to use a de-esser on Deepak's audio. His "s" sounds are atrocious! Great talk though!

[@mimiseton]

Totally agree! And so does Hoffman. Bad sound mix (too many high frequencies in an acoustically bright setting -- allowing the hissing that drives us nuts)

[@anterpants]

Well, I didn't hear it earlier but now you've altered my conscious experience and I can't stop hearing it.

[@stephennixey]

The physical reality is 'real' (and not simply eye candy - as used to be dismissive of actual reality to 'prove' a 'point') unless you take your meaning to the atomic level (which no one could live, enjoy or even experience the 'wholeness' of life)! Reminder - we do not live at the atomic level we live in the 'real' world we see and interact with around us. Simply as atoms interact at an atomic level that is simply 'what is' I prefer to call a human being a human being not a group of atoms! We can break things down far too much and in those moments we loose what is actually reality this is typical of a 'Materialistic Reductionist Belief System' these people are talking about 'Fragments' which are simple aspects of reality, how things interact and although it's seemingly 'amazing' and 'profound' it is simply tiny aspects of the whole of 'what is' and not actual reality in itself.

[@josephmasterleo8941]

Note that in the entire 40-minute dialogue, the word God, spirit or spiritual never was spoken. As with all scientists, accepting mystery is taboo and verboten, because everything has to be precisely figured out. The closest the discussion ever came to hinting at the spiritual came from Deepak, who quoted the Vedanta, careful to protect Don from hearing the word, and then it was only intimated. This is what science and scientists will not allow in their vocabulary or conceptual apparatus. Says here, such is owing to an absolute intolerance for knowing (heart), as opposed to having knowledge (head) of something beyond the empirical, logical, and mathematical. And yet, the numinous will not allow you to relate to or come to terms with itself primarily in that way. Because "that way" (the empirical) can only be a concept of same, and not the unitive experience of it at the foundational level. Truth be told, consciousness is the scientific term for spirit, something that mystics and indigenous folk have told us about for centuries that encompasses all things. One needn't have a Phd to experience same, or be able to explain it mathematically. By Don's logic, he could never be fully satisfied nor fully understand the experience of loving spouse and family, until he reached that point in his satisfaction that, in addition, he could conceptualize the experience mathematically. Really? Science at best can suggest the spiritual (consciousness) in and beyond space-time, it cannot figure it out, lest by dint of absurdity, it attempts to make itself equal to, as opposed to a subset of all things conscious/spiritual. A scientist can never be content with doffing his hat to mystery. He insists that all things must be understood rationally, refusing to bow to anything but reason as his God.

[@thomassoliton1482]

According to Dr. Hoffman, scientists have 2 beliefs: that spacetime and physical matter are objective, and that we have evolved and are shaped by natural selection. ... These ideas are in conflict and cannot both be true. His reasoning is that the more accurate ("true") the representation of external reality an organism has, the less its fitness for survival. This conclusion is only true in a limited context, in particular, within individual species and their specific niche. Do humans, for example, not have a more accurate representation (not necessarily "true", but more detailed) of the external physical world than a bear? And yet which species is more threatened? While in a major armageddon, what species is most likely to survive? Cockroaches! But we can survive in the Arctic, whereas cockroaches cannot (outside of human habitation at least). We all have conscious experiences, and every conscious experience is different because the experience itself must be different. But we should not mistake "consciousness" for conscious experience. When you see leaves floating down a river, you do not mistake the leaves for the river. But the "river" of consciousness is the bioelectric activity of the brain, and is not present if the brain is dead. Without water, the river does not exist; without brain activity, consciousness does not exist. Conscious agents are symbolic representations and thus also generate a conscious experience when contemplated. They are not themselves conscious nor are they made of "consciousness". The core activity of the brain, and its fitness for survival, rests in its ability to compare and separate. This is what Dr. Hoffman has elegantly done, to separate an idea - "consciousness" - from reality. Does that make it real?

[@mimiseton]

Deepak is a seasoned and peaceful teacher, whilst Hoffman seems highly nervous. His breath is short and his speech is hurried and plosive, faltering -- like someone driving who jams the breaks on every few seconds. Admittedly i am not addresseing the content when I say that his speech patterns reveal he is energetically uncentered. He sounds apologetic one minute (as in needing us to know he may be wrong, which he mentions so often I began to think he IS wrong) followed by moments of subtle condescension. He defends Science and Math several times, for example, which is unnecessary. In another video, he dismisses Spirituality as 'hand-holding' which was worse than unncessary. In short, he seems to be articulatng ideas from the Science and Math worlds that yogis came to thousands of years ago through meditation and manage to express with simplicity: that our world is a projected 'dream' -- or virtual reality -- for one example. In sum, my icon perceives his icon as likeable, sensitive and bright, but stumbling around in is own intellect -as if his Truth is always running away from him, and he has to chase and chase without ever being able to take a breath and fully own what he thinks in this moment. We KNOW you may be wrong. You are asking the largest question ever posed by a human - What is the Nature of Consciousness? - and the answer will always keep expanding. That continual expansion (and the fact that we may not yet have even discovered the language in which to ask the question) implies taht we are all wrong all the time. But that doesn't mean our relative wrongness can't serve positively, or that we don't enjoy the enquiry.

[@crabsynth8761]

Our Yogis Didn't Know Crap about Quantum Physics ! They thought the SUN EATS THE MOON every lunar eclipse & Vice-versa ! This is a FACT ! It is very Easy to Retrofit any scientific evidence into Vague Mystical Writing... It Doesn't mean that they understood what Quarks are or what the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is. If you simply read what you Typed... you can Clearly see that you came into this Conversation with a Bias... thats fine... we are all Humans... but you seem to show No Shame for your Bias... What are you Doing on this Channel ? This Channel is about the amalgamation of Science & Non-duality.... I really ENCOURAGE people to THINK before they Type. Regards

[@omegahealing4852]

Agree to Mimi....

[@TheFreddieFoo]

You are more tuned to the mannerisms of the "teacher" than the content of the teaching, you prefer a certain mannerism of teaching to "believe" the teaching. You don't want to learn, you just want to be entertained.

[@TheFreddieFoo]

I actually sensed a lot of condescension and lack of interest in understanding Don, from Deepak. He even went as far as to recruit the crowd to look down on Don's theory.

[@pramitbanerjee]

I didn't perceive hoffman as nervous - rather he was highly energetic and eager to discuss his theory. His apologetic nature comes from the humility of doing science, scientists are humble people (or should be) - the more they know, the more they realize how deep their ignorance is. Regardless, it is in poor taste to look down on anyone due to the mannerisms of his speech. New media does this to people because we are as human being bred to notice body language and speech tone more than the content of the speech. If you were reading a book, you would not perceive the body language or the tone - content becomes more important. Thus, the nature of new media is bringing us farther from having fruitful discussions (in some instances) as success skews towards people who have knowledge of how to move a crowd, but are false prophets themselves and can only spread ignorance and half baked knowledge.

[@j.h252]

True, different species have different impressions of a tree, hence they have different sensorial systems and also a different processing of the tree inputs inside their consciousness, since all agents even of the same kind are different in interpreting these sensual inputs. How Depak comes to the idea, if all would see the tree in the same manner predator and prey animals would lose their difference and the garden of Eden opened its doors, is so superficial and esoterically blind as a lot of Depaks views are sounding paradisaical but are a bit dull. Think Depak is scanning selectively all fields supporting his views, if not they are false or are getting made to fit.

[@JH-ji6cj]

You're not wrong, but think how perfectly your description of Chopra's bias fitting into a fitness payoff view. The Religious and the tribalism/group think that supercedes scientific knowledge is exactly the type of thing Hoffman is exploring here. Not that we all aren't doing the same on some level, which I can expect is the truth.

[@isa-manuelaalbrecht2951]

Very well explained..😁😊🤩👏👏👏💥💯

[@goodwayinlife111]

Thank you

[@dustietu]

Thanks! New nemesis directed me here.

[@ernestweber5207]

Awareness, in its pure form, logically can have no actual referent. We all are aware. It is irreducible. It pervades all experience. Abstractions are not actuality since they are always about the objects and phenomena. In that sense direct experience is crucial. Consciousness, by distinction, requires an object experienced by a subject as in "consciousness of...". Within the field of consciousness a multiplicity of phenomena appear/arise spontaneously in a continuous, dynamic fashion. It is a dynamic flow of energy. The mind, by way of the "structure" of our nervous system and conditioning, fills in or evokes the details of past precedence and future results that provide a narrative that also arises spontaneously and creates the illusion of continuity. It is like swinging a firebrand around on a chain and seeing a contiguous circle of fire that is not really there.

[@ameyadeshmukh3911]

They are awkwardly close to each other...

[@ITSALLFYA]

Its nice to free your mind of anything recognizable, to be as open minded as you can, question every perception, and accept nothing. None of these theories is true, and it's unlikely to be useful except in the sense that mysticism is stimulating and entertaining. Happy 4/20 everybody!

[@katiemarte5354]

i wonder how we can apply this to our personal lives.. so does that mean we shouldn't take our sufferings literally? and the people around us.. are they real??? how does this tie to parallel universes?

[@summerbreeze5115]

Yes dont suffers.. they're all in you...you have created the universe :)

[@TimoDcTheLikelyLad]

Donald Hoffman is a genious!!!

[@morbidmanmusic]

How wouldn't you know? You'd have to be one to know for sure... Time saver... he Is not!

[@aangeledarryanani8523]

Wow… love it

[@moesypittounikos]

How do dreams fit into Hoffman's model? Dreams are also projections of the mind. If this universe is a shared 'x', and the dream is a personal 'x', then who is the dreamer?

[@PaulHoward108]

Moesy Pittounikos The Vedas describe everything that occurs in time with a past, present, and future is a dream, and the ultimate dreamer is Kṛṣṇa. The contribution from Kṛṣṇa is in creating the possibilities, and the contribution from regular living entities is making choices that actualize events. I don't know what Hoffman might say about dreams.

[@gangsterkami1]

You are the dreamer my friend. Essentially the universe is a dream we are all dreaming. Since we are all dreaming it, it is reality. We have all decided to dream this reality because we are all one. I mean we are literally all the same entity. We are all pure awareness. Dreams are just personal ones we have constructed for ourselves.

[@carlhammill5774]

I agree that dreams and our life experiences are both projections of the mind.

[@RohitSharma-mi8gt]

Buddha’s stressing on a discontinuity of experience ( नैरात्मन) was to emphasise the continuous eternal nature of the “self” which is NOT the aggregate of the body-mind complex.

[@GreatWhite7]

RE: People who believe politicians: Your brain has 2 sides; on the left side, there is nothing right, and on the right side, there is nothing left.

[@bumslotfeatures752]

enyone noticed Don having same voice than Hawkings had, just with less distortion? :D

[@quantaVastitude2021]

Consciousness is one divided into billions who are experiencing different expansion of the one Consciousness. Respect each others ways because we are one Consciousness expansion into many . Every one is right and wrong

[@illipopovic4556]

So the conclusion is that we really don’t know❓😂

[@nn-uj1iv]

yeah complete bullshit.

[@superfitatpowerhouse4006]

Very interested. It's humans representation as far as what consciousness is or reality. Is one objective point of view.

[@esbenandreasen6332]

I actually think this is it. This is the solution to the hard problem and so many other challenges to our understanding of the physical world. Will this be the next Copernican revolution? Also, does anyone know of any relevant criique of Hoffman's theory? Thanks.

[@spiralsun1]

Esben Andreasen Yes, logically you make an awesome point. It IS. I know this because I have thought the same things independently for several decades and basically wrote and presented papers for years on these same issues. I have written a book about this myself that complements and expands these ideas greatly. (I used to be Steven E Romer when I wrote the book and papers including the paper: “Going Beyond our Evolutionarily-Limited World View”... and my book: “The Textbook of the Universe: the Genetic Ascent to God”. etc. ) These ideas are the key to the unified theory we have been seeking but we need to unify all our knowledge- not just physics. Information theory is part of the key too. Anyway yes, you are so correct!! The fact that I came up with these ideas independently and connected them to more basic problems in science shows that this is a solution based on the state of information now. I came up with them to solve the “hard problem” of consciousness before we even had named the problems of consciousness. It has been a long wait. Lol. It reminds me of the idea of heliocentrism spreading or scientific revolution in general in a Kuhnian sense. This is the real deal. :-) I am just hoping that some day I will be able to continue thinking and writing about these things full-time. I have solved many more problems and related this to so many things since I wrote the book that it’s overwhelming and somewhat painful to be truthful. Thanks for the comments!!!!

[@crabsynth8761]

After seeing this ... I gotta Respect Donald Hoffman for staying on topic & maintaining scientific rigor... despite all of Dr. Chopra's attempts to derail the Conversation. I mean I am also an Indian, trying to explore & make sense of the Meta-physical Poetry that my Ancestors left, under the light of the latest Scientific Model, just because it brings great Insight & appreciation of How people without Technology thought about the Universe... And what we can learn about their mistakes and successes for our Future Benefit. but Deepak Chopra always has to push his Magical Agenda in... I hope he is Just playing the Devil's Advocate here (I know he is not but a man can still hope)... cuz right in the beginning from 8:17 onward... he starts to derail the entire conversation with "Where do those equations come from?"... I Hope the viewers can see that he is just asking this same childish question of "Which came first the chicken or the egg ?" You have to approach this topic with more Maturity than that... His question is actually not very Deep at all !

[@GabrielGarcia-jf2uc]

I agree that Deepak talk a lot non sense most of the time, bur his point is that mathemathics is not real and can not prove counsciousness beyond the human brain.

[@crabsynth8761]

@@GabrielGarcia-jf2uc Well mathematics might not be real my friend but what makes you think that his words are any more realer?" Are they? We as the audience are willing to accept that his words can describe conciousness beyond the human brain... but somehow mathematics cannot do that... Why do we accept that? Mathematics is build on top of a much more tangible, observable, consistent Natural framework than the arbitrarily designed Human language that he is using. Mathematics is a language... It is a tool to express ideas... it is not a computer server on which the universe runs. Thats why i believe your assumption is wrong because you are asking the wrong questions. And while we are at it... why not question the fact that Conciousness might not exist beyond the human brain in the first place before announcing that the very mathematics thats bringing you this very video n my comment over the internet... is not real... Just because we cannot describe something that doesnt exist in the first place... doesnt mean that our descriptive skills are wrong n unreal. Deepak Chopra has a scientific vocabulary but his concepts n theories are the same old rehashed "The heavens are more realer than this life" nonsense that we indians grew up with. Our religious leaders have been using this stuff to control n exploit the common man since antiquity... Nothing new here... just some new english words thrown in. Well wishes !

[@GabrielGarcia-jf2uc]

@@crabsynth8761 Thats the counsciousness paradox, uses words to say that words can not define ultimate reality, if counsciousness is fundamental and creates reality, words and numbers are its creation, an illusion, maybe you can use math the same way as words, to point at it but not to prove it. If counsciousness is created by the brain things get worst, in this case counsciousness do not create the illusion of reality, counsciousness is the illusion itself, so how you can prove or define anything at all if thats the case.

[@GabrielGarcia-jf2uc]

@@crabsynth8761 the 3 option may be that counsiousness is real but do not create reality, in this case math can prove it.

[@crabsynth8761]

@@GabrielGarcia-jf2uc (sorry for the long post... but then again we are discussing the universe so excuse me...) haha the universe and consciousness... those are big words my friend... but at least im not a hypocrite who ignorantly uses Math to watch videos about consciousness on youtube n uses math to send text via the internet but then claims that Math is not Real... haha Im using words to express a concept called Agnosticism .... something that existed in my culture long before western science was born... long before jesus was born... a concept that states we may never completely understand the universe... God becomes the Schrodinger's cat in this philosophy... Agnosticism n Atheism have always been one of the foundational concepts of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism etc... it got side tracked with magic, superstitions n gods later on but this concept has always been there in our scriptures. So dont try to argue with me about this like im some shmuck from down the street. I really dont say this out of ego but to state that i can see farther because i stand on the shoulders of giants... Many smarter people than you and i have thought about this stuff already, thousands of years ago... n i use their framework to establish my own. i can express the same thing in math ... its called the heisenburg principle.... we scientists are not pretentious snobs claiming that we know everything... we claim the opposite...That math cannot completely describe the universe. But just because math cant, it doesnt give ur Quantum Mumbo Jumbo guys the authority to claim that conciousness can describe the universe completely. At this moment your guys are pulling stuff out of their you know what. The only difference between the thoughts of your consciousness n math is that with math... you just write it down... Doing Math itself is an expression of Consciousness!!!!!!!! To do math is to be Conscious! And maybe nothing can describe the universe completely but the universe itself... it need not be conscious to do this... i'll mention a quote i just heard in a sci fi show recently.... "I Dominate, I need not Lead! - the universe". Im completely satisfied with my position now... im not gonna waste our collective time arguing about non sensical semantics with ya buddy... if u got something interesting then please let me know but not gonna waste time on semantics.... ive pin pointed what exactly your problem is... you are confusing the real universe with the model of the universe that your brain creates inside your head. Personally i dont care what you choose to believe... Believe whatever you want... the constitution gives you the right to... but dont hate on my math just cause of your existential crises... just have the humility and the humbleness to stay grounded... just be brave enough to admit that we dont know anything before pulling cosmic theories outta where the sun dont shine... your all Ignorant ... just like the rest of us... climb down from the pedastal.... n join the club... its okay to not know everything n its okay to admit that we dont know. Thanks n Regards

[@time-mechanics]

SOLVED - in time we devolve down, in life we evolve up. Time lines - Infinity - all information What is the universe? The universe consists of pure - Information - is the universe. What is information? One bit of information is a technology Two bits of information create a new independent information- a new information structure What are atoms or matter? Structures of information or better, technologies! One technology = one individual atom Two technologies make a new technology A - new structure made up of two inner technologies or structures. Itself is a technology. Independent What is mathematics? Information interactions - creating new information / or interactions between set technologies (From & too infinity) What is time? Time is Information - interacting to create a order. A sense of entropy is the ordering of the information interactions - creating new technologies and technologies sets Time wells

[@carlhammill5774]

What Hoffman is ultimately saying is its likely we can't comprehend true reality so in mean time lets create some math models that allow us to sleep at night.

[@fineasfrog]

Now that is a good sense of humor. Thanks.

[@leafyleafyleaf]

Let us attempt to see as far as we can see so we can sleep better at night.

[@stellabandante2727]

Fascinating conversation. I hear you.

[@GroovismOrg]

When we are all entrained with The One Groove, in our higher states. we will experience reality!!!

[@morbidmanmusic]

Massive woo woo statement. Meaningless.

[@SolaceEasy]

Generations of mystics and pragmatists have cleared out and delineated their territories while Dr Hoffman focuses on the boundary interface between the two, which is rare and gets fire from both established camps.

[@tooakki]

"Reality is Eye candy", that's actually a terrifying statement.

[@morbidmanmusic]

Not really. If it is what it is. But in this case... it isn't. This guy is full of shyte. ..actually, they both are.

[@oocloudoo1549]

How do multiple conscious agents work though? I get that my reality is a UI, but what about you looking at the same thing I am. Am I seeing your data structure or mine? Are you people all part of my data structure? Or are you sharing my same experience? I’m confused how this All works when you factor that in

[@Peter-rw1wt]

What is science trying to do ? They asked the question, but what is the answer ? We (most of us) think that we really are the thinker, and that thinking is therefore the best way of addressing any question. But thinking is not intelligence; it is process, and all of science is process, and process offers the advantage of efficiency in understanding, in comparison with what it replaces, which is intuition. How does process offer efficiency ? What is intuition ? Is intuition the understanding that belongs with stillness of mind. ? Meditation cultivates stillness, and therefore cultivates intuition, which comes, and goes again, completely. When thinking begins, intuition is delegated to ideation, and thoughts can be remembered, or delegated further to language and communication. This ensures continuity through time, but continuity and time are the creations of process. How can a human being, who is alive and therefore only present, be convinced of the reality of time ? Is time a device in understanding, a present device, that is creating continuity, that can be interpreted as space or time ? How would that be possible ? In a reality that is always present, can a continuity of process create the subjective reality of time, and can many subjective realities create the objective reality of time ? Is process self-referential ? Is self-referentiality efficient ? Does efficiency reach a maximum in automation ? Is automation totally self-referential ?

[@level1dodo896]

I'm very curious to know what Don Hoffman thinks about the Fundamental consciousness, more in depth. To me it sounds like he believes it could be a single entity almost.

[@GeorgWilde]

The crank and the mystic. Beautiful. Only the Atilla is missing.

[@GroovismOrg]

The only reality is The One Groove. Humans are Groovists. The joy of modern man ;knowing our purpose as One of ten billion is to manifest our vibrations as One!! In tune internally & externally with the universe.

[@faismasterx]

I came for Chopra's woowoo, stayed for Hoffman's take.

[@muthucumarasamyparamsothy4747]

Hi, Gentleman , I have a doubt about the statement that had been made during your conversation , " Evolution Of Consciousness ". What I understand in Consciousness is that Conscious Agent can only undergo evolution not the Consciousness itself . Thank you.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

"Consciousness itself" Do you think Consciousness is a something? Agents are conscious because A. evolution makes entities who become, who ARE conscious or because B. evolution makes entities who participate in consciousness (conceived as a property suffusing the entire universe or even as the entire universe itself taken as a conscious being). Most of Western thought takes A. to be the case because most Westerners have come to value individuality over collectivity. Those who are convinced by B. think there is only one entity in the universe perusing materiality through myriad eyes. Being a Westerner and understanding A., I ask of those convinced by B., why is there war? Are we trapped in an insane universe?

[@paulkelly1162]

I'm liking Hoffman's ideas, but I need clarification. I understand why he'd posit conscious agents as the fundamental reality. Why would he make such a strong claim that space and time are not Real at all? The only data we have left is our own experience, but that experience is immersed in space and time?

[@patmoran5339]

Reality is real and knowable.

[@mermaidthea]

I remembered a joke that this two guys may find funny! A woman and a child are walking on the street and the child is carrying a big heavy barbell. So one man see them and asks "How come this little child is carrying this big heavy barbell?". So the woman answer "He is just a child, he doesn`t know it is heavy". 😂

[@jdsood7101]

Finding God is like finding a word God written on a blue paper with the same blue ink..Do i make sense??

[@melonieprice9855]

Wonderful