Defending and "Fixing" Helluva Boss's Inconsistent Writing

Last HB video for a while.
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[@TheMedicatedArtist]

This show severely needs a continuity writer.

[@bella_daze3092]

Pretty much

[@The-keeper-of-time-and-space.]

Yeah it does

[@JahonCross]

It's a tv show writer

[@kfcroc18]

The show has one, her name is Viv. You just want someone else who will make your head canons true.

[@Someone-hi9cm]

​​@@kfcroc18we want someone who can write complex characters without using daddy issues and evil exes as their problem also no sex jokes in serious scenes and no projecting their yaoi fetish

[@risforrandomandrandomisme762]

A lot of the show problems would have been solved if the characters *asked* things, for example: "Hey moxx, you were not from the ring of wrath?" "Oh yeah but i spend my childhood in the greed ring, dad hated the wrath ring" Or if they made more morally ambiguos characters instead of "stolas gud stella bad"

[@insectostrich4407]

Right?! That’s almost exactly what I was thinking. All it takes is just one line to justify the moment.

[@risforrandomandrandomisme762]

​@@insectostrich4407 yeah, and it also can solve some deus ex machina from the show "Millie, how you could kill a giant fish but striker easily defeated you?" "That fish had the endurance of a normal fish , it was just bigger" "Wow, wait, how do you know that?" "Stolas told me"

[@insectostrich4407]

@@risforrandomandrandomisme762 Personally, for the sake of consistent tone and power scaling I would’ve written it so that the book instead took the imps to restricted parts of the Pride Ring outside Imp City to kill Sinners. The joke could be Blitz had no idea Sinners could regenerate and so everyone, including Millie, would be out of their element.

[@insectostrich4407]

@@risforrandomandrandomisme762 although, that would’ve spoiled too much about the Pride Ring. So, maybe it was for the best Viv saved it for Hazbin Hotel. It’s still a fun thought though.

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

Or maybe make it more like: "Sir, I told you several times already. I was BORN on Wrath. I was raised here." "Ooooh... You were born on Wrath?" "I give up." If you do a small infodump at least make it somewhat fun. Or highlight both character's personalities.

[@MarxistMomentum]

The moment someone has to go on social media to explain something in their show they've already failed.

[@Birdyboys]

I like how Stolas and Stella pretending to like each other could have been an easy fix if they didn’t establish that pre-cheating, stella was loudly telling friends (and maybe family?) that she despises Stolas and hates that she gave birth to Octavia. Like how did none of that reach her? They tried so hard to make Stella look evil that they forgot that she also needs to be competent and manipulative to justify why Octavia thought they loved each other. And Western Energy implies that Stella is so stupid that she can’t even resist insulting Stolas while trying to steal his money. All these convoluted issues just so we could feel bad for Stolas Lol

[@risforrandomandrandomisme762]

They writed stella to be a hate sink but you can't hate her because she is basically a generic disney villain "i hate the hero and i want to kill him" Instead of being detestable, she's simply boring, and that in a villain completely ruins it.

[@Birdyboys]

@@risforrandomandrandomisme762Diregentlemen/We Are Not Alive said that helluva boss writes abusers less like they’re people and more like blank slates for real victims of abuse to protect onto and hate. There’s countless Stolas fans who identify with him and view liking stella or having issues with her writing as “abuse apology” because in their mind, she’s no different than their real abusers

[@JnGArtimation]

Ironic, because in the Ozzie's episode, I believe Stolas said something like "Via is out with her mom". Which, when you think about how things are, it raises even more questions.

[@Birdyboys]

@@JnGArtimationthere’s also that line in seeing stars where Stolas repeats to Stella that he’s not making Octavia turn on her… does she care about Octavia or not?

[@JnGArtimation]

That line really means nothing when they never established the relationship of the family. At least Simpsons and Family established their family dynamic over time.@@Birdyboys

[@xraku3744]

Stella's character was especially ruined with lines like "I like tormenting you" because Stolas' actions give no reason for Stella to be mad at him anymore after the show establishes an absence of love between the two. Stella hating Stolas for no reason now not only makes her stupid but an extremely boring character

[@angel_of_rust]

Medrano watched an Ab-Fab compilation and thought "Hey now that's a character"

[@ehe2396]

I think Viv cares about her animation and sexy demons more than making her writing a bit better

[@DrAngelKins]

She's constantly on hazbin, so she's probably not focused on helluva that much

[@witherslayer-7315]

6:43 I feel like the retcon is especially bad for this reason when you take onto account Asmodeus' song in 'Ozzie's' He calls Stolas out for "selling his life for a thrust", but being the embodiment of the sin of lust, he still encourages this behavior from Stolas, even if it's ruined his relationships with his wife and daughter. But now, that scene is pretty much meaningless now, and doesn't hold the same thematic weight as it once did.

[@xraku3744]

I agree, the aspect of gray morality would suit a show of this nature that takes place in hell much more. Morality is the main character concept that would play into their hand, after all Nearly every character in Helluva is either all good (May do bad things but always major justification for their actions) or extremely one-note, and all bad (Mammon is a great example). It would be a breath of fresh air to get development to some characters that reveals some actual undesirable traits that genuinely make them worse or more flawed as a person. The audience perspective where it is hard to sympathize with a protagonist at certain moments which then lead into emotional scenes and even breakdowns that make you compensate for that by feeling bad for the character and attempting to understand the reason behind their actions makes for a much more compelling story and would support the narrative in an amazingly refreshing way.

[@angel_of_rust]

you know it's bad when Medrano manages to make the embodiment of Lust for an adult animated show a hypocrite.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

A big thing Helluva Boss is missing is a Fish Out Of Water character. Someone whom can be used as a vehicle to explore the rules and lore behind the setting and have it all explained to them. Because if every character is native to your setting and has grown up there without ever feeling like they don't belong or fit in - none of the inner workings of your setting are likely to get explored. Since if everyone who lives there has always lived there, then alot of the intricacies that need to be explained to the audience for them to be able to understand and follow along - generally aren't explained.

[@user-wk7tp5lw4z]

Striker could've been just that, he was the guy who introduced us to nobles mistreating the imps, took it seriously, and didn't have to be a narcissistic comedian like every character in this franchise.

[@jazzyqueen4980]

I've always thought that, and considered how interesting that could be. Hell, Loona could technically have been that since she's been in a shelter her whole life and has likely never seen much outside of that

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

I had been thinking about that myself. And the perfect way to add that would have been when Loona called them out for not having human disguises. Keep some of the silliness of the imps then stealing costumes but, what if they hired a sinner to work with them. Every time the sinner goes back to Earth they revert to how they looked when alive. The only hint their dead is that their cold to the touch. Then we can have an audience stand in, (hopefully not a boring piece of toast) and that will make explaining the lore easier.

[@Phobie_2008]

I still think that Brandon Rogers not helping Viv with writing at the moment is a massive problem for the show. All of the best episodes in the show (A.K.A most of season 1) are the ones he co-wrote. I do not at all think it’s a coincidence that when he stopped writing after Season 1, that the quality of the show’s writing took a massive nosedive. Not to shame the new writer, but I genuinely believe their writing is hurting the show. The writing for the first 5 episodes of season 2 was terrible, it was only when Viv took writing into her own hands for episode 6 and 7 that the season actually improved. (take a shot every time I’ve said "writing" in this comment 😭)

[@silverguy9605]

8 shots if you were wondering, and 9 including the () comment

[@ibraahimdureng7482]

So true she desperately needs a new writer.

[@risforrandomandrandomisme762]

9:10 stella: you literally writed me to be a generic disney villain witout the good part of disney villains

[@MagicalStarr]

That’s what I been thinking and saying

[@CemeteryDxll]

That’s an insult to Disney villains

[@SpoopySquid]

"At least give me a banger songto sing"

[@MagicalStarr]

This show has so many writing problem and I’m glad I’m not the only one who started to notice. And yet when people does point this out and are nice as possible they are still called as “hater”. I’m kinda a fan of Hellva boss but I wish it was just written different espically when it comes to character relationship and character dynamics. But now it just feel like it’s written by a 15 year old first Wattpad fanfic. And that’s comes from a 15 year old who loves Great and Good fan fiction and is creating my own story. Sorry for the rambling and keep up the amazing work. Also I don’t hate the writers and or anyone that’s works on the show. I bet they are amazing people and they been working very hard on this series. I just wish the writing was a little better.

[@xraku3744]

yeah, i'm honestly hoping Hazbin is more mature with adult themes like addiction or identity disorder rather than sex and constant swearing so there is actually real drama and character.

[@silverguy9605]

I really hate that people who give their valid criticisms are labeled as "haters" or "mad because your head canon didn't come true". In no other fandom I've been apart really had this sort of issue. Like sure they were probably there and I just didn't lay my eyes on them but this is the only time I've really seen it come up. When people give their critics on Transforms (A franchise that is made to sell toys to little Jimmy) the community doesn't attack them because they were giving their personal opinion. I wonder why this fanbase is the exception?

[@Corrector1]

@@silverguy9605 Series that are style over substance tend to attract particularly obnoxious fans, because they're there for the style but they tell themselves that it's because of the substance and the worse the writing gets, the harder they have to to work to justify their investment. If a show starts out bad then odds are it won't get many passionate fans. But when a show starts out good and then suffers a massive nosedive in quality, the fandom will become split between those who are willing to acknowledge the flaws and those who desperately work to convince themselves that things are still fine. I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of HB's fanbase are too young to be watching the show.

[@angel_of_rust]

helluva boss / hazbin hotel artstyle and theming just seem to attract the worst of the type of people that love undertale / fnaf / other adult animation. edgy teens/young adults with or without parental issues.

[@harmonylynx252]

For some reason Helluva has its lore thrown at us, but its not presented as lore. Its just a blink and youll miss it detail. Thats a big problem, especially since so much of the show relys on the lore! Ive seen alot of well made theory videos give detailed reasons for why Bee and Tex date and it makes more since but…I shouldnt have to watch a fan made theory vid to understand! (Also ps not related but…good god i hate how Stella and Stolas r written now. It feels like the show FORCIVLY trys to gaslight us into thinking Stolas good Stella evil now. They do this with alot of season 2 villians as well, where they are just the most unredeamable pieces of evil garbage, spewing insults and abuse left and right and..its just not fun to watch..or interesting!)

[@jor1469]

It needs to have a motive that what it's missing. Plus the sabotage of sticker character witch pissed me off really bad. Just lazy right for season 2.

[@xraku3744]

honestly, and the entire great idea of Stolas' and Stella's marriage failure being both of their fault was completely thrown out the window and hurt both characters a lot.

[@Corrector1]

The whole issue with Beelzebub not getting the same kind of mockery for dating a lower class demon that Stolas and Asmodeus did sounds like the kind of thing that _can_ be explained, but isn't explained in the show itself. It's not that a show should spoonfeed everything to the viewers, but when the fans are constantly having to think up explanations for things that seem like they don't quite make sense then I take it as a sign that the writers either didn't think things through or they need to be better at conveying information.

[@harmonylynx252]

@@Corrector1 yeah! and i hate that the show activly wants us to fill in the gaps, when they can flip and change character motives and canon on a dime. we never know whats here to stay or change! So why should we be invested, let alone hunt for reasons and explinations for the lore and plot gaps?

[@angel_of_rust]

if it weren't for this show and hazbin hotel having an evocative tumblr art style and being heralded as the face of indie animation i can guarantee this would have been regarded as one the worst modern animated shows of all time. the writing alone sinks them so hard, it would normally heavily tank and even kill off other shows if they had it.

[@DrAngelKins]

Stella needs a good write-up with her character. You don't need to get rid of her old character, but make her interesting instead of a wife who is abusive.

[@risforrandomandrandomisme762]

Replace that "i like tormenting you" with "i once loved you, but you backstabbed me" now thats 10× better

[@lunaitor-uq9hz]

@@risforrandomandrandomisme762 Fr, that line is so try-hard Like, how more cartoonishly evil can you possibly get after that?

[@pawnhearts8785]

@@lunaitor-uq9hzWell, Sir Pentious exists.

[@lunaitor-uq9hz]

@@pawnhearts8785 the difference is that i'm pretty sure Sir Pentious is NOT supposed to be taken all that seriously

[@obnoxious_efe420]

@@lunaitor-uq9hz and he also isn't a bad guy

[@snowdude8583]

man, what happened to writers in season 2 helluva boss, season 1 helluva boss is peak

[@The_Practical_Daydreamer]

Mother Moxie wanted to save her son from a life of crime, yet Moxie becomes a career criminal. Wouldn't the thought of his mother's death elicit a trauma response? Why is he attracted to a violent Millie? Why is he working for someone like his father?

[@risforrandomandrandomisme762]

Answer: vivzie didn't even thinked about moxxie past in the first place so when she had to make zim 2- i mean moxxie more complex she created that past in 2 seconds and without thinking a lot

[@lunaitor-uq9hz]

I still can't believe we don't even have her f*cking name. She's just "Moxxie's Mother"

[@Corrector1]

Yeah, the flashback in that episode seems to frame Crimson raising Moxxie to be a killer as an example of what a bastard he is. But then Moxxie actually did become a professional killer so...what? I guess for all we know, Moxxie's mom didn't have a problem with him learning how to kill, maybe she just thought he was too young for it. ​ @lunaitor-uq9hz I've pointed this out elsewhere, but it makes it even worse when you realize that all of Crimson's shark henchmen had their names revealed on social media.

[@artistanthony1007]

Trust me dont bother trying to understand any of it, none of it is supposed to make sense, that's what to expect from Viv.

[@angel_of_rust]

those deviantart "artists" that add elaborate character traits to their Sonic The Hedgehog OCs probably put more time in characterization than Vivienne Medrano has. You'd think someone like her of all people should've already mastered that. It's so odd to say but she should take notes from those Deviantart artists. She really needs to at least keep summaries of her characters' traits. like a part of a show's pitch bible that lists the characters' important traits.

[@jor1469]

The show is that it's not good if im being real.

[@darthlovecraft]

I just hope Vivzi could look back into the series' plotholes and make an effort to address them. I mean, she's got all the time in the world to do just that; we're only halfway through the second season and we still have two full seasons to go. So there's absolutely no reason she couldn't do just that. But just me being hopeful.

[@insectostrich4407]

Amazing video, man. Let’s just hope Viv has taken some criticism into account among the haters who make it difficult to tell who’s being fair or unfair. Like you said, these flaws may only be here because Viv was almost fully focused on Hazbin Hotel. So, I have high hopes despite everything.

[@artistanthony1007]

You really think Viv cares? Because she doesn't.

[@insectostrich4407]

@@artistanthony1007 I mean, have you seen the dumb controversies people have put her through? I’m not saying she shouldn’t take in criticism, but she surprising gets a lot of unreasonable hate. People are literally sending Viv and her staff DEATH threats because she included Voodoo symbols in Alastor’s playing card! Again, not to say we aren’t justified in criticising her work, it’s just complicated.

[@hubertberrum6242]

@@insectostrich4407yeah but the thing is that Vivz hasn't been able to take criticism for YEARS like back when she was on Tumblr and Divianart she would block people who criticizes her even in the nicest way possible

[@insectostrich4407]

@@hubertberrum6242 Oh really, are you sure?

[@hubertberrum6242]

@@insectostrich4407 not really but that's many people have said and a lot of them were former fans of her

[@kimnoir]

One thing I've heard people say is that this is an episodic show, thus continuity doesn't matter. That is false because this show has quickly rushed into becoming essentially a soap opera series *and one with harsh frequent tonal shifts at that (unfortunately before properly establishing the core/recurring characters), thus continuity has become essential. Edit: And one of the most unfortunate things is that the continuity issues in this series can often be fixed with simple dialogue or situational tweaks rather than having an entire plot, arc, or event to address or maintain it. (E.g. He can get hurt? -> He got hurt?) Something a bit harder to address would be the poor worldbuilding of social class & hierarchy in this world. The story picks and chooses when to care about peoples social position in its world. Being fair on the writers, social class & hierachy is EXTREMELY hard to write well (especially due to consistency issues and realizing "Oh yeah, my character can't do x (e.g.attend school) because of x (their species) and x (racial) prejudice from the modern people of this world is because of x (their upbrining and society) which was caused by x (the ancient war)" -and even this is a generalization of how difficult it is to create and incorporate such harsh prejudice into worldbuilding. Just as how it's restrictive to the character, it's also restricive to the writer.

[@risforrandomandrandomisme762]

Regular show was also a episodic show and they didn't destroyed their continuity

[@silverguy9605]

A thing that I like about the "He can get hurt" line is that Blitz think's Stolas is untouchable and shatters his window that he formed. However, that is just what I think and I do see why people dislike it so much since when the episode first came out since I thought the same thing until I slept on it a bit.

[@Corrector1]

@@silverguy9605I've always thought that was a sensible explanation, but I still think the way they presented it was odd and it came off more like Blitzo has no concept that demons like Stolas can be injured. As kimnoir said, changing the line to "he got hurt" may have made it more clear that Blitzo just didn't think that anything would really happen to Stolas.

[@wooshydog]

I think the reason why moxxie says he's from wrath us to further distance himself from his mafia family and the fact that his mother is from wrath

[@DrAngelKins]

Brandon is writing thus scripts, too, so it's not always gonna be viv. Actually, the most best epusodes were written by viv.

[@witherslayer-7315]

Brandon isn't responsible for the lore or characterization though. That is almost exclusively viv

[@Phobie_2008]

Correction: the best episodes (a.k.a the majority of season 1) were written by Viv and Brandon.

[@poumybeloved]

If Vortex just dated another hellhound then it wouldnt even change anything

[@something6833]

This show could be so good if it wasn't for the poor writing... You could even say, it's hell-of-a-loss.

[@artistanthony1007]

I want to get it out of the way I hate Bee as a character, examples being she's immature for a royal, the constant random profanity is agonizing and why is her body responding negatively to Blitz? She's a Ruler of HELL, she has duties outside Gluttony and should be used to energy like his and worse, the good energy thing also was terrible and kills her entire character, she bothered by negative energy in terms of Gluttony sin just ruins everything.

[@user-wk7tp5lw4z]

I also hate how shes pure good, shes the SIN of gluttony and she shows concern for blitz's drinking to much? Are you kidding me? Why does she and Ozzie have ethics but Mammon doesn't? You can't just pick and choose who you want to be the good guy I thought this was hell😂

[@nothingaboutnothing4584]

I know people like Stella and it's always been implied they hated each other or more so Stella hates him the pictures in the background of the house always displays Stella being uncomfortable in some way if stolas is there and if you listen closely to the conversation with Octavia it's more likely he wants Octavia to believe in some way that things aren't as bad as she thinks

[@xraku3744]

I actually really like the idea of their love never having existed and it just being a facade for Octavia's sake, and it could make for an emotional moment where Octavia realizes that her parents never loved each other, where Stolas tries to comfort her and promise to be more truthful. It could be used to develop both Stolas and Octavia as characters

[@GlitchedGamer08]

I originally thought the reason no one questioned Tex and Bee was because Bee was too powerful and too high up to question, but then people made a big deal about Ozz and Fizz, which had a slightly smaller hierarchical gap and im pretty sure Ozz and Bee are equals, so there goes that headcanon!

[@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982]

I know there are some inconsistent writing in some episodes in Helluva Boss like when Moxxie says hes from the Wrath Ring, but his father Crimson raised him in the Greed Ring. Although i remember his mom is from Wrath as well, I believe she lived in Wrath right before she met Crimson. Plus they should give a reason why Stella is the way she is today besides how Andrealphus manipulates her.🤔

[@Pirated89]

It's because the showrunner is a furry.

[@jor1469]

That sums it up pretty much.😂💀

[@angel_of_rust]

even "convenrially bad" animated shows have never had writing issues like Medrano's shows. Not to mention, what other show has its lore and important character bits scattered around on social media and not being put in the actual show? It doesn't help that the shows and Medrano are partially protected by the "indie animation is booming" narrative going on right now. this show and hazbin hotel aren't exactly what indie animation might want to represent itself with, since good writing is what really elevates and gives animation its purpose.

[@TinyVA]

I wish I could be a fly on the wall of the writing room

[@user-wk7tp5lw4z]

Why?

[@Trident_Gaming03]

Tbf, I think at least 90% of the writing issues Helluva Boss has are from Adam Neylan You can clearly tell the difference in writing quality between the episodes Viv was a part of and the ones that Neylan solo wrote

[@KiaBlocker-ig3ws]

I HOPE HELLUVA BOSS EPISODE SEASON FIXING THEIR WRITING PROBLEMS SOON I'M TELLING YOU IT'S A SLOPPY WRITING WORSE SEASON EVER.

[@CastOfCharacters13]

Imagine if there was Helluva Boss [WHAT IF] I kind of marveled it

[@no_0riginality937]

Man where did we even get to this point. I thought Helluva boss was supposed to be a silly cartoon with an emotional bonus not toxic ships and retcons galore. Not to mention but I do agree with this but at this point im a little weary of where this show is heading since many people seems to agree that Helluva boss is just aimless at the moment and is basically Hazbin 2.0

[@TheMedicatedArtist]

Bit of a nitpick, but you can be born in an environment and not end up like your peers and family. I know because that’s how I am. Where my family is loud, extroverted risk-takers, I’m a quiet, introverted homebody. My friends always get whiplash when they see my family. Hell, my brother and I were in the same grade at one point. Everyone, teachers included, thought we were cousins. Wish I had a camera every time we both rolled up for a parent-teacher conference with our mom. We always looked exactly like our mom, so the puzzle pieces finally clicked.

[@lunarlunar9405]

imo i feel like helluva boss should have done a falsettos route for stolas and stella, have stella genuinely love and care for stolas for their relationship while stolas was using her as a way to hid his queerness. this makes both sides have flaws at least to me, and strengthens stella being very bitter and angry towards stolas for cheating on her. i have no problem with making women be abusers ( i write abusive and asshole women myself) but making their relationship be just this monster woman beating up this gay man because she is a abuser with no reason to abuse feels like a disappointment when the other option could have been a woman finding out that her husband never had any attraction to her and only was with her because he wanted to fit in.

[@paytonturner1421]

That part of season 1 when stolis and his dollar. I thought his daughter didn't know about the arranged marriage this kept a secret from her. That's why I think why she things that they love each other but now they hate each other.

[@eliasdiab4045]

I tip my hat for you good sir 🎩

[@tonythunder6048]

I got into like a argument with my friend when it came to Asmodeus, Bee, and Stolas dating the lower class and brought up how no one questions Bee and Tex and he took it personally for some reason. After a few minutes in, I just gave up but he kept asking me why did I find it stupid and I kept telling him about Stolas and blitz are being judged yet the sins aren’t. With Asmodeus we got somewhat an excuse cause people are talking about it be he basically threatens anyone who would tell about them but bee and Tex are out and about and he still kept going

[@avathorman837]

Who's "he"?

[@Looona_fan]

My biggest issue with the show was when they would use humor to cope with something terrible/amazing happening, but seeing this was a nice change.

[@Katiztiredd]

PREACH

[@jay-yi9im]

Honestly I think they should focus on a plot point one at a time soo many things are happening that are unresolved

[@MASKEDMANGUITAR]

Viv was never really a good writer, but Adam kinda seems to be making it worse somehow.

[@avathorman837]

Adam's one of the writers? Isn't he the cartoon version of Adam from The Bible?

[@bdariamihaela]

Moxxie never said he is from wrath, he said he was born there, he was always gonna be raised in greed, he puts accent on that because it was where his mother was from so he choses to identify more with that place, Blitz is violent, more violent than Moxxie to but he is from pride, the ring does dictate the personality is that the "rough and tough" style is more apreaciated in wrath

[@katsmaddworld9907]

The Stolas debate is interesting but realistic. Octavia never said they loved each other, she said they didn’t hate each other. How many kids think their parents are happier than they actually are? More than you'd think. Stolas takes depression medication and suffers internally. Parents will often stay in abusive households for their children, this isnt new. When people are abused like this, they do whatever they can to survive. And though Stolas made a lot of mistakes, I think people forget how much he actually went through. I'll be honest, I am not a "Stolas can do no wrong" type of fan. Mostly because of how hw treats Blitzø. But I dont think Stella is the victim in this situation - and though it would be interesting to see Stolas and Stella be more complex and redeemable, some stories just aren't like that. Even in real life, there are just horrible people who refuse to meet halfway no matter what you say or do. The shows inconsistencies aren't that bad in my opinion, I mean, have any of you seen Friends, ever after high, or boy meets world? (There are surely better examples lol) Some of their inconsistencies drive me insane! This show aint perfect, but ive sure seen worse 😅

[@Birdyboys]

Oh come on. Is loudly proclaiming you can’t stand your husband not implying hatred?

[@katsmaddworld9907]

@Birdyboys True...but we didn't hear her say it in front of Via. She did in front of a bunch of people though so who knows. Via doesn't really talk about Stella much, she mostly talks about how Stolas hates Stella and Stolas would rather yell at Stella then spend time with her. Maybe Stella is playing the good guy? Or maybe they just didn't think too much about it who knows lol 😆

[@user-wk7tp5lw4z]

Well it would be nice then to see more of the family dynamic then, if stolas was really trying we should see that, we should see how Stella reacts to this, does she play along? Probably not if anything she feels like the type that'd take any chance she could to badmouth stolas to Octavia. Yes they're real bad ppl out there don't try to imply we're being unrealistic. This show *is* that bad

[@katsmaddworld9907]

@user-wk7tp5lw4z I'm not saying the show is perfect, I just don't think it's as bad as people claim. But that's my opinion, and it's totally okay and valid to have a different opinion. I do agree with you though. It would be a lot better if they showed more of the dynamics. There's a lot of stuff in the show they just leave out, but honestly a lot of shows do, ducktales 2017 was my favorite show a few years ago, and there was a ton left out or unexplained, these shows take a long time, they're not gonna be perfect.

[@dylancashen5922]

9:10

[@paytonturner1421]

Moxie's origin change I think is suggested that he lied about where he grew up because he doesn't want to relive the memories of his past. I think that's the reason why he didn't share his real place of birth because it bring back some memories of his dad and his terrible childhood. He probably just want to leave that in the past.

[@paytonturner1421]

Your thoughts on stoleness and Stella I don't see that as a whole big redemption art thing. I kind of see that as a high upper class person being a pain to a person because she likes doing that to other people. And honestly having the mother be the bad parent is more of a subversion of the bad parent trope. But I can see where you're coming along with the red cons and inconsistencies.

[@Oban2006]

Copium

[@dylancashen5922]

Then why are you watching it

[@kyosokutai]

Only royals give a shit about status, Bee is a self-declared rebel and thus do not care. Nor does her people (the hell hounds of Gluttony) her posititon is secure enough that she can indulge (gluttonously), said so herself. "It's hard to say how much effort she put into raising octavia." She literally told Stolas to do it, in the very first moments of episode 2 season 1. That should give you a fairly clear image of how much she actually cares about Octavia beyond a Goetian obligation. "By changing moxxie's upbringing to greed" Not a change, he foreshadowed it in episode 1 by mentioning maybe the target family has a shitty father, or was a mob family. Oh look, they're throwaway lines. Now I might be a outlier for using this thing called 'inferrence' but I find it mindboggling people genuinely get confused over this stuff. Heck, Blitz has had a new pistol with different design at least three times now because he keeps losing the damn things. How's that for continuity. Or are those retcons too now?

[@ethanpena2030]

The writing is perfectly fine

[@Cloxman]

Tbh I thought the show was really good and now I realize the different plot holes in the show but that doesn’t change the fact that you are hating on the show

[@poumybeloved]

Atleast he has a valid reason to hate on it, even tho he probably doesnt. And bad writing not enjoyable for most people, I also enjoyed it while watching it but I was really confused because of the incosistencies.

[@stingywingy1607]

Okay, Stella isn't a retcon she makes it clear in her first debuted that she is mad because it was an imp not that he cheated. And in that same episode, Stolas mutters out how they weren't in love. Octavia was a kid who didn't have the outside knowledge or experience to realize Stella and Stolas acting in public or keeping things civil in her earlier years didn't mean they loved each other.