Defining "check" versus "counter"

[@hugopereira2241]

This BKC post streak has been amazing

[@duelme1234]

Don't wake me up from this dream

[@Hanesboi]

Are you that 7U player in DosDorquesGaming's videos? Woah

[@okboomer2473]

He’s going through a lot of the syllabus with his lectures this week

[@jomapumapu]

The thing about this game is that people think Pokemon is basically a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. What it actually is is a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, Flamethrower, Fire Hose, Taser, Bird, Bigger Rock, Insect, Refrigerator, Dragon, Karate, Bent Spoon, Ouija Board, Bear, Serial Killer, Magic Wand And then there's like a million of each to choose from, and you can take six of them

[@ao1479]

Ahhh I see!! My pokemon showdown t-shirt is a good check to women, but a hard counter towards the cougars in the bar from catcalling me!!!! Thanks B!

[@maxlimit9129]

i love how the terminology of "answer" implies that the threat is a question. Greninja? Chansey. Volcarona? Heatran. Hotel? Trivago.

[@lordnatu]

It's moreso that the threat is a problem which requires an answer

[@zakkschmitt5610]

I feel like I've just been Rickrolled and I'm all for it

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

Trivago too strong pls nerf. Or at least take away its fake out

[@sablesalt]

Personally I define checks as "stops pokémon from doing what it does a limited amount of times" an example of this is landorus therian for most physical attackers I define counters as "prevents the pokémon from doing what it wants to do indefinitely and can only be removed via another pokémon than what it is a counter to" An example of this is mega sableye to ferrothorn as ferrothorn cannot set up hazards or get around mega sableye and must be aided by a team member to get rid of it, this means mega sableye is always a counter to it in any game. Do note a counter can allow a pokémon it counters to do some things as long as those things do not matter in the gameplan.

[@Relisoc4]

when the opponent doubles on your double but you doubled to the doubling on your double

[@juice.giygas]

Kevin, you're my "what would Jesus do" when I'm on Pokémon Showdown, brought me to 1800 on gen 9 randbats 🤣

[@supahhiro]

"they call it doubling even when it's not a double switch" ...blunder

[@davie7670]

I just want you to know how much I appreciate your videos, I listen to them almost every night to fall asleep.

[@mehdidelteil3672]

Same haha his voice is relaxing and with no aggressive background music

[@someeggplant]

If every single person gets 5 of their friends to watch BKC's movie, by 15 generations over 7 billion people will watch it! It's all about mindset, people. /s For real, hype about the trailer.

[@laitentierdotcom]

the videos without replays are my sleep aids, these ones that you've been putting out lately have been my "listen to at work to make the time go by exponentially quicker" fixes. it's remarkable how i can watch an hour long video and it only feels like 20. btw, loved the possession (1981) recommendation! can't wait for your trailer to come out, my friends' wallets are ready

[@Joel97_]

One thing I really like to do is try do make it clear when it's an offensive or defensive check, helps explanations and just to make the listener understand better

[@jul1us787]

You dont have any content bro

[@emmetstanevich2121]

@@jul1us787 I, uh, think they're talking about conversations on other platforms. Or IRL.

[@Hammerbruder99]

Additionally I sometimes use the term "soft check" when I use a Pokémon as a switch-in for an offensive threat that has detrimental coverage for this Pokémon to beat it. Example: Answering a choice banded Lycanroc-Dusk's Stone Edge with my Krookodile even though I know that it has got Close Combat in its set. So using the phrase "soft check" I communicate that I can use a Pokémon as an answer under the risk of losing it to a correct prediction.

[@HellCat_Kenny]

Nearly a half hour long vid defining two terms. This finna be another industry classic.

[@jakehxllxws259]

Women want him, Gen 5 fears him.

[@scoutbane1651]

Legitimately the best sleep aid. I love your voice. Same for the guy who narrates False Swipe, you're both great!

[@jordanmynes2638]

Got my ass with the sleep aid, running mocks in my sleep while the voice directs

[@CubeBizz]

I love all these specialized terms in competitive pokemon. "Phazer" (pseudo hazer) will forever have a special place in my heart, I learned it as youngling when I got into competitive pokemon thanks to gen4 wifi battles and serebii chat, and I thought that word was so cool.

[@Richard-ec8xy]

I had no idea phaze was short for pseudo haze wtf

[@CubeBizz]

@@Richard-ec8xy :D

[@hippoboii3401]

I literally can not fall asleep watching your videos. I've tried it a few times and end up watching the whole thing lol

[@gazeboist4535]

Something that *counters* the mon under consideration will win by default if they fight head-to-head. Something that *checks* the mon is able to win, but doesn't have the same win-by-default level of consistency.

[@silver6486]

Translation to FGC lingo: Check = Counter Counter = Hard Counter

[@d007ization]

There was a time when, it infamously only having one counter in OU, after Genesect got banned, nothing was allowed to be a counter? Hippo takes 20% from an all-out attacker? Myes, such a nice check. It was ridiculous. By that logic, Blissey doesn't counter Zapdos because it can get knocked off and then full-para'd three times in a row (or whatever). Less stupidly but still making the term counter next to obsolete if you follow that line of reasoning: Nothing that gets impeded by trick or toxic can be called a counter. That Hippo I mentioned? Could always get toxic'd or come in at 34% health!

[@Alex-vm6ef]

awesome vid, super informative in your commentary and the battle itself was real entertaining. you played it really well and as a primarily vgc player i love to hear your commentary and thought processes

[@Sam-sv8jh]

Its almost midnight here and this guy convinced me to use his voice for sleep aid in a single line

[@gabrielduguay5783]

You’re such a fantastic sleep aid, Kev.

[@screwtokaiba]

Ok guys i speak Pokeaim-nese i got this Check: That is not an answer my fren, that is not an answer Counter: That boy ate

[@onehoop2127]

how did he know very soothing voice

[@PrscEU]

i watch every video twice, once to fall asleep and once for the actual content. god bless you.

[@linkabsol28]

You love to see the 5th video in the same week

[@tomazrodrigues7006]

BKC being aware of his usefulness as a sleep aid 🥰

[@hannahbriarly4192]

Next up: Defining a "groovy move'' in pokemon

[@lamesause]

u should scream very loudly at a random point in ur next video to wake up everyone who uses u as a sleep aid

[@NiceteaBandChannel]

Abbreviations are the shit. All my homies think CBT is choice band tyranitar.

[@WillowChord]

my man *knows* this is what I sleep to every night

[@jknkjnkjnkj8967]

he rly came for blunder at 1:56 lmfao

[@Skyace13]

Yo this battle was pretty heat. Not that other ones aren’t, but unlike Gen 3 and 5, I actually played this one somewhat competitively.

[@TiresAreForCars]

talk about how true HO has been completely redefined into any random team with offensive mons on it

[@Paytonio]

loving how much you have been uploading recently!

[@doofmoney3954]

How did you know I fall asleep with your videos on lmao

[@oopsalldeoxys5060]

I already had a pretty good idea of the difference but it's nice to have an educated insight

[@whomgod420]

You know it's a good morning when you hear that 'doot doot-doot doot-doo' when a Pokemon uses the expected move

[@loudwhispre9406]

I always considered a counter to be something that could switch in and a check to be something that couldn't switch in, but still technically beats the thing in question. For example, Spiritomb would be an Alakazam counter since it can switch in on Focus Blast or Psychic and can 1v1 Zam with any Dark or Ghost move. Gengar is only a check since Alakazam will never come in on Shadow Ball, but inversely, Gengar would never come in on Zam for fear of Psychic. Or more generally, dragons check each other, but fairies and steels counter them.

[@danielsmith5032]

BKC you hit him with Gliscor and THREE regenerators AND Magearna?? That’s brutal

[@analoghabits9217]

is there a distinction between "attacker" & "offensive set", or "wall" & "tank"?

[@GodzillaFreak]

I always remembered a check as a mon that wins in a neutral battle situation tf?

[@tysondennis1016]

Starmie counters Mence, outspeeds and OHKOs with Ice Beam.

[@BatmannotBruceWayne1]

My wallet is ready for BKC’s movie on BW OU

[@J0ulez5]

Human interaction is just rpsing into a winning position

[@untitled2611]

love the consistency

[@realfishscience7842]

(I got only 10 seconds in) alrighty. See you tonight/after this sesh if I decide to nap then. Good point.

[@amana9269]

10 min yapping sesh is crazy

[@walterbardelli523]

My opinion: Counter: Pokemon that can switch in at any time if kept healthy and stop the opposing mon from doing progress (Pex into urshifu-r, for example) Check: Can stop the opposing pokemon under most circunstances, but doesnt completely stop the progress from being done (Melmetal into weavile)

[@africanveteran7728]

25:47 I thought that was my PC

[@cubeislife1675]

Doubling out my pokemon irl Thanks BKC

[@jkid1134]

These terms always felt bigger than Pokémon. I always thought they were inherited from another game. Anyway, my game-independent definitions for check and counter are that checks are "fair answers" and counters are "unfair answers", that is to say, in the face of a threat, counters generate value, whereas checks are value neutral. You definitely run into the idea that it's about permanence a lot, but I don't know. Wobb could take 70 from two hits from a banded mon and kill it and you'd still call it a counter. Or you could have a mon that walls completely but can't put on any pressure, and you'd have a hard time calling that a counter. It definitely gels better with how I use the terms in various other games (card, fighting, strategy). More properly, it's probably more about the threat of gaining value than the actual execution. Even more properly, it's probably not really about "value" at all, so much as "complex advantage", but I'm getting really nitty gritty game theoretical if I don't stop. Checks - get the job done, counters - actively good, that's the layspeak tl;dr

[@Synoh]

algoryth check

[@pokeinator7834]

Rocky helmet roost Corv COUNTERS banded rillaboom Banded scizor CHECKS banded rillaboom

[@VJ-Vice]

Haven’t watched the video yet but I’d define a counter as a Pokémon that can switch into a certain mon and force it to switch out. A check can either switch in but not always have an advantageous matchup or have an advantageous matchup but have trouble switching in and getting on the field. Let’s see how close I got it

[@OriginaI151]

Man im loving the slew of vids we been getting lately 🎉

[@barokmeca]

I am so hyped for this

[@flashdrc]

Your voice is somewhere between Mr. Metokur and NPR. Hope you're doing alright badge buddy.

[@judeaninniss2860]

youre my sleep aid thnx

[@lesqueegee]

BKC stocks on the come up 📈📈📈

[@evangervais4001]

Could you add subway surfer gameplay alongside the battle gameplay?

[@Mbuna14]

Movie? I ain't ever heard of a BKC movie

[@Albert_ROAR]

love gen 7 ou.

[@thesparrow1116]

what movie??

[@HugeZorse]

Wait what movie???

[@majelalover8837]

I only shave my feet once a week

[@ryleeschurger]

You should start streaming

[@marianosimoniglesias]

Excellent battle. This is a very good explanation of something I suspected what it meant since Kevin (FSG) video about Mewtwo... but wasn't sure if I fully understand. I have a question, I hope someone can answer and sorry if it's a dumb question: A wall can be a Check? Is the same or in some situations are different? Thanks for reading.

[@waternotwater5562]

a wall can be a check, yes. correct me if im wrong: for example, bulk up corv/amoongus switches in on several pokemon and exerts offensive presence

[@marianosimoniglesias]

@@waternotwater5562 Thank you so much :D

[@lordnatu]

A wall can often be a check. It might still not want to swap in on the move, thus making it not a counter. An example of this would be a Clefable can stay in on a Choice Band Urshifu as long as it doesn't click Iron Head (and thus it might not want to swap in on an Iron Head), or taking the hit on the switch-in does too much damage (Like a Great Tusk can do 40% to a corviknight with Close Combat, so if the Corviknight is below 80% it can no longer swap in)

[@Elijah-hz9ls]

Weavile is a Garchomp check, not a Garchomp counter. "Focus Sash Adamant Ice Punch Weav-" SHUT UP.

[@Lesseodollboy]

Counter: Clodsire with water absorb against rotom-wash with only hydropump and volt switch as attacking moves Check: Azumarill resists both walking wake stats but because Walking wake may be the teams win condition it may terrastilize to beat azumarill

[@mattglup1095]

Check can come in once. Counter can come in multiple times. Saved everyone 26 minutes. Man what a low effort vid

[@inazuma-fulgur]

Honestly your Magearna is a peak example of a check no? It can come in, but the cost is it can't do it more than once or twice before you have to start sacking Like to me that's more a check than your Latios/Latias example (I forgot which one) Guess Magearna here is a defensive check while Latios is an offensive check since it can't take a hit and is just a revenge killer basically

[@BKCplaysPokemon]

that's what I mean by the definition being flexible, but yes, it's a counter insofar as anything kb can throw at it can be withstood and it can heal with pain split (esp since kb has it way worse in terms of longevity), but it can quickly slip into dicey territory

[@xy394]

@@BKCplaysPokemon Also Draining Kiss

[@ryanborn7026]

you shoulda been a philosopher, kevin. unless you're in prague doing philosophy, in which case, nice

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

check: doesn’t have instant recovery/regenerator counter: does

[@TheHero136]

Well when you have three regenerators on a stall team it’s easy to check a lot of the meta game.

[@arielsasson3097]

That’s not a stall.

[@TheBestFormOfHumor]

That wasn't the point of the vid but ok Also he wasn't even hard countering anything throughout the entire game except for the heatran

[@waternotwater5562]

skill issue

[@rizachan8892]

🤔