Degoogled Phone from Rob Braxman Quick Review

[@jjiacobucci]

Rob/ Braxman is a real honest man benefiting many who don’t have digital skills. Thank you, Mr Rob Braxman

[@nickhomer6799]

Rob Braxman is very impressive. I appreciate his ideology. He's a treasure trove of knowledge.

[@letsgetto1millwithoutvids]

Some of the stuff he says is bs though

[@baileystark7629]

@@letsgetto1millwithoutvids Like what?

[@derrick_v]

@@letsgetto1millwithoutvids wow, thanks for the great info...government

[@letsgetto1millwithoutvids]

@@derrick_v I'm not the government. He talks about de googling a phone then literally puts micro g on the phone ah yes definitely fully de googled and some video titles are clickbait af

[@coziii.1829]

@@letsgetto1millwithoutvids Your full of it still have his phones etc over 5 years

[@deltap8170]

Rob is an amazing guy very honorable. I got 2 pixel 4 lg very pleased! Thanks for your input!

[@CeeZee001]

About 5 months later since video was uploaded and I just picked a Pixel 4 XL 128gb on ebay in good condition (small scratches from normal wear, usually only visible in direct sunlight) for about 350. Installed Calyxos myself. Not a hard procedure. Braxmans charge is pretty hefty but I guess if you got the money and want to support him by all means go for it. Been really into privacy lately, 2 years ago i would care less and constantly share my location on social media and the whole 9. Privacy will be a luxury in the coming years.

[@NEILANIL1]

Calyxos vs lianageos.... difference? What are the points for Calyxos vs. Lianageos.

[@trevbarlow9719]

You mean to say "2 years ago I wouldn't care less..."

[@MrYAMAHA32177]

BraxMe? Rob does some good work trying to keep the overlords at bay but I went back to 1985 standards and have a home phone that stays home with no phone travelling with me.

[@juzzlookin]

Seriously thinking about that. Or remove my sim so that I can still use the other tools on it. Its like a swiss army knife, not explored how many of the apps still work, but did try a few, and they did work but without ads. I could live with that. Just need to know if I can get access to the camera and images. Sound meter worked, clinometer worked, compass worked..... still exploring..

[@maximusdecimusmeridius4638]

@@juzzlookin just removing the SIM is not enough. If you are connected to the internet in any way, your info still being collected.

[@juzzlookin]

@@maximusdecimusmeridius4638 how are you connected with no sim?

[@maximusdecimusmeridius4638]

@@juzzlookin wifi

[@MR-nl8xr]

lol, bro, you're a Chad!

[@DogGuy19]

I have recently gone down the privacy & degoogle rabbit hole and spent lots of time watching Braxmans videos. Have been considering buying a phone from him, but didn't know enough. This video provided answers & good information. Thank you! 👍

[@NatTuck]

It's worth also considering some of the other sources for de-googled phones, many of which provide phones with ROMs that may have advantages over the very generic stock LineageOS image that Rob uses. I did a video a couple months ago that went through some of the different ROM options for doing it yourself, most of which are also sources for pre-installed phones.

[@tophan5146]

@@NatTuck What about his custom Braxphone?

[@TheLostSingles]

I appreciate the review since I am considering one of these phones.

[@John_II]

I really appreciate that you did this review. I have eyeing a de-Googled Android for some time now, but it's hard to find reviews. This is a breath of fresh air. Lastly, following along on the screen with you is also very helpful.

[@BrewsterMcBrewster]

There is a BraX2 Phone coming soon. Rob Braxman claims it is a de-Googled, spyless Phone for $379. Uses AT&T carrier. I'm going to get one as soon as I can. Nice unemotional review Nat! You seem as unbiased as one can be. Thank you.

[@MissBabalu102]

Hmmm. Does it Have to be the AT&T carrier? It sounded great until that, although I couldn't say what carrier is better.

[@BrewsterMcBrewster]

@@MissBabalu102 I can't say which carriers work and which don't. It is pretty hit and miss right now. I think Google is sabotaging the Brax2 phone but I can't say for sure. I've tried Ting and PureTalk. Neither work for me. I'm going to try T-Mobile next.

[@ketobygeorge7763]

@@MissBabalu102 I bought the Brax2 phone and found Consumer Cellular works great.

[@ketobygeorge7763]

@@BrewsterMcBrewster Consumer Cellular works!

[@BrewsterMcBrewster]

@@ketobygeorge7763 Thank you, Keto! They will be next on my list! I've heard good things about them from others. Thanks for replying!😃

[@GaryCameron780]

I have a Moto G7 from Braxman and I like it. I'm quite okay paying an extra $200 to have someone else set up the phone. I have better things to do with my time and Rob can do in a couple hours what it would take me a few days.I seriously doubt Rob would install any backdoors.

[@zehph]

It is not that complicated to do what he does, the tools do everything for you, once you do it for the first time it gets pretty trivial and ends up being quite fun actually. The thing is putting your trust on someone else, Google says that they don't do anything nefarious with your stuff, we all trusted them before untill the news became widespread... If you are trusting a different third party to "fix" your privacy problems you won't fully understand the concepts and have bad OpSec and even if he does a legit job, although wanting to believe in him, one can't know for sure unless knowing where to look and at that point could do it themselves, you would be pwned either way... Why pay more for a cheap phone then?

[@GaryCameron780]

​@@zehph It's a trade off of time, money, and trust. I could spend weeks learning how to de Google ONE phone, possibly wasting $600 on a phone that can't e de Googled or I can spend an extra $200 to have Rob do it for me. Same reason I have a mechanic do oil changes on my vehicle when I'm capable of doing them myself. Money spent at the mechanic saves me a pile of time and hassle. If Rob Braxman is lying he's doing a damn good job. I like to think I've watched enough of his material to get an idea of his character. I also don't have the time nor the skills to go through the Lineage OS code to make sure there are no backdoors. At the end of the day we eventually all have to trust someone at least part of the time.

[@zehph]

@@GaryCameron780 I agree with the sentiment, but there are three points where I discord: 1 - doesn't take weeks to learn it, I did it in 1 and a half days, one that has no experience with CLI tools could take 3 - 5 tops, it is not as physical or messy as changing oil in a car and it is good knowledge to have when you value your privacy. 2 - LineageOS has a BIG following and undergoes massive scrutiny by the community, there are a lot of people with skin in the game who trust it so it is not the same as trusting one guy. 3 - Watching scripted, intentionally produced and edited content from someone doesn't tell you jack squat about their character, and when someone poses him/herself as an authority on a subject and then sell a solution there is a red light that lights up in my brain, doesn't bode well.

[@GaryCameron780]

​@@zehph We have different philosophies on #1. My time can be better utilized than by learning a skill I"ll only use once. As for #3... If you've spent time watching Rob's channel you'll know a great deal of his content isn't scripted. have you attended any of his live chats? To say Rob isn't being honest is purely speculative on your part. Over all I'm thinking you're coming from a position where you have plenty of time but not a lot of money. Or you prefer to spend time than money. Or you don't want to give up the kind of control you have by doing something yourself. I'm on the other end of the spectrum where I'm able and prefer to pay people to do things I"m either not good at or prefer not to. I also trust Rob and don't have a huge need to micro manage the process If it were a three letter agency I wanted to protect myself against and not just Google, Apple, and Facebook I may have an approach that has me more directly involved.

[@zehph]

​@@GaryCameron780 I usually I prefer spending money, that was not my point, you would not use this skill only once (changing phones would mean buying it more expensively from Rob) and I meant that it provide valuable insight on how the system works and how to better protect yourself, not to mention that flashing a custom ROM is not the can of worms people make out to be, it is just following instructions now, it only can break in unxpected ways if you are tinkering outside what was instructed. As of being speculative, it can be said for putting your trust on him too, I have watched his live streams once or twice and I tend towards liking him and what he is saying makes sense to me, it is just that to me the phone has such intricate and deep privacy gaps that leaving for other person to "fix" doesn't work for me, rather have and OEM locked phone at that point, but Rob seems like a decent guy, I do pray that you have made a good call by trusting him, but when it comes to this kind of matter, I rather control it or it doesn't matter to use the "stock" version anyway.

[@kenjboyd6233]

Good information and presentation, thanks! And I have to say that like the rest of us in this fast moving world Rob doesn't know it all. But I've been watching him since he started his channel, and I can say that he is trustworthy and is definitely one of the champions helping us with what Ed Snowden started. Looks like so are you, so I subscribe with notifications. Please keep up the good work.

[@DariusLundberg]

Who knows it all? Who could possibly know it all?

[@kenjboyd6233]

@@DariusLundberg , exactly, can't argue with that!

[@scottpyykola7727]

I decided today to buy one of his phones, thanks for your vid it supports my decision.

[@foxpup]

Nat, Thanx for making this video. It's great to have someone show me what's what with these google exorcised phones. Helping me learn....LLAP

[@n3k0lein]

Nethunter on a degoogled Note 9 is an absolute charm. Planning to use it for another 3 years.

[@zehph]

You do red team work? What led you to choosing it? Just the "hacker" appeal? The full kali system with HDMI seems quite sexy tho

[@Mr.Riojas]

Thanks for publishing this review. Good info.

[@TheSillybits]

Very interesting, I would really appreciate an update regarding your experiences with that phone as well as regarding current models Braxman offers and apps available. Thanks in advance!

[@NeverMetTheGuy]

Came here because it was suggested on the side bar of a Brax video. You seem to have a decent idea for a channel, so I'm subbing.

[@lockergr]

He's got the Illuminati pyramid in his logo mate.

[@BrewsterMcBrewster]

12:25 "If you really want privacy... then do not connect to Google at all" WELL SAID, Sir. Disconnect from Big Tech.

[@Alan-gg7cz]

Disgusting isn't it! Your local police is complicit in this "abuse of authority" many lawyers will say how do you know you are being monitored. When you even tell them you have had surveillance vans near your house within 25 yds.

[@BrewsterMcBrewster]

Yes, indeed. Of course when the government gives free cell phones to all the illegal immigrants, it's like giving them location finders so the bad guys can keep track of every movement. I love having my Brax2 Phone and it's nice to not see anything Google related on it. I think it's the only phone that does this. @@Alan-gg7cz

[@roblowe6086]

Really want one of his phones. Great video

[@tetonscot8028]

Nice report Nat, wishing you success with your channel

[@wolfrig2000]

I actually just found out about Rob, I'm currently shopping for a new phone and tired of all the Spyware but not willing to put in the time to learn how to root. My current phone is a note9 but I've been using it for a few years now and the phone is physically degrading and constantly having errors. As a sort of sanity check I'm glad to see others buying from Rob, I didn't want to be the first!

[@lockergr]

He's likely a government shill though. He can talk all about the pokey without getting his videos pulled, while others get pulled for saying the digits one and nine alone it seems.

Great review Nat. My understanding is that with LineageOS, the bootloader remains unlocked (a security vulnerability) but if you change it from LineageOS to CalyxOS or GrapheneOS with this Pixel phone, then the bootloader can be re-locked, which is better for your security. Please let me know if somehow Rob was able to re-lock the bootloader with LineageOS, since I am under the understanding that LineageOS doesn't allow that presently. Thanks again for that great review.

@Unleavened Eagle Thanks.

[@NatTuck]

The bootloader came unlocked. My current understanding is that an unlocked bootloader is required for a custom kernel, but I'll have to take a look at what the CalxOS and GrapheneOS ROMs are doing. My guess would be that there's some sketchy compromise involved in getting the bootloader relocked on a custom ROM.

[@oldman6172]

Yes the boot loader is unlocked but the security is not as bad as some think it merely means someone can reflash it which erases everything .

@@oldman6172 My understanding is that certain apps (i.e. some bank apps) detect an unlocked bootloader and refer to run.

[@zehph]

@@oldman6172 Not really, one can remove your screen lock and have full access if you didn't enable storage encryption or install malware to snoop on you once the device is unlocked even if you activate the encryption of the data partition which is not enabled by default iirc.

[@jogon1255]

Thanks for the good video. Would you be able to do a very detailed video about microG? I am trying to understand how to manage it with all my apps, what it ACTUALLY does and doesn’t do, etc. I’m trying to dump my iPhone, and am learning how all this AOSP works. Thanks!!

[@jogon1255]

(Like, specifically.)

[@NatTuck]

That's an interesting idea. I'll have to look into it a bit.

[@TheGoldeyFamily]

I have to buy one of Rob's phones.

[@MR-nl8xr]

I'm over due. Did you get one yet?

[@in-craig-ible6160]

Thanks for the review man, appreciate it.

[@RememberTheLord]

Will a degoogled phone have a way of them seeing my photos like how Apple is now viewing our private photos? I know maybe location can be known but can they view our photos or texts?

[@NatTuck]

No. If you're running an open source Android ROM without Google Play Services (or some other similar thing), then nobody has remote access to your phone.

[@jaanc8047]

@@NatTuck Does that mean cloud storage of photos are not safe from being seen by the provider/ government at all? What are some good ways to store our photos then?

[@Marcus-kz7rw]

@@jaanc8047 an extern hard drive is the safest way. Not convenient though.

[@muck4227]

@@jaanc8047 cloud gives another party ownership of your stuff

[@slickwillie3376]

The nice thing about this is you can use it only as a computer, if you take out the SIM card.

[@NatTuck]

A full Linux phone like the PinePhone, Librem 5, or a strong Postmarket target like the OnePlus 6 is probably a better option for that.

[@atroxie]

problem with those unlocked phones is banking apps etc dont work

[@NatTuck]

Some apps certainly don't work. That being said, I'm running at least one online banking app on mine and it works fine.

[@YTInnovativeSolution]

Thank you very much for the review. Subbed :)

[@privacyisanon-negotiablehu712]

Have you heard about Eos ?

[@ArtOfHealth]

They will tell you how to clear some phones and install e.os. Cool company. Like Nat said, not all phones are degooglable until a certain amount of time goes by. Look at their website.

[@StarNumbers]

If there is an app on your phone that cannot be uninstalled then there is a problem. If Rob puts in an app he thinks is useful AND can be uninstalled then there is no problem.

[@JR-qb7qt]

Good point. :-)

[@sabicsepregi6521]

So can you not set up any phone (say Samsung) without google?

[@NatTuck]

Getting rid of Google involves doing a clean install of a Google-free version of Android (a "custom ROM"). Some phones have a locked bootloader and installing any new OS is effectively impossible. Even if you have a phone with an unlocked bootloader, you still need a version of the ROM built for your specific phone. So it may be possible to de-Google some model of Samsung phone, but if you just buy an arbitrary phone it's unlikely that it'll be possible. The part of the service Rob is providing where he gets a phone that will work is non-trivial. For example, you can install LineageOS on the Google Pixel 3... as long as it was bought directly from Google and not from any US cell carrier. Since most US customers buy their phones from carriers, almost all used Pixel 3's you find on Ebay or Swappa won't work.

[@charlese2833]

Can one disable micro-g?

[@kenwu7]

Silly question but is their anything pre-installed that can't be deleted/uninstalled?

[@NatTuck]

I haven't actually tested dragging each app to the trash and seeing if it goes. That being said, core apps like the phone call app generally can't be removed normally on Android devices. Beyond that, I don't think Rob has gone out of his way to lock his Brax.me app from being uninstalled.

[@raymanovich3254]

Wait, but if it has micro G-apps at all, then it's not actually degoogled by definition right?

[@NatTuck]

Having the official Google Play Services library installed acts as an unrestricted backdoor: Google can conceptually tell your phone to do whatever they want. The security and privacy implications of micro-G are *much* more limited. With micro-G, your phone using some Google network services and therefore Google can track those activities, but Google doesn't have unrestricted remote control of your device.

[@raymanovich3254]

@@NatTuck Hmm. That's an important distinction to know, thanks.

[@candidob8683]

Check out; /e/OS , CalyxOS, and GrapheneOS. They all have reviews on KZbin.

[@raymanovich3254]

@Unleavened EagleThat's really neat. Thanks for the clarification.

[@charlese2833]

@@NatTuck Can we use the firewall to block micro-g when needed?

[@BT-qk4ic]

BTW, the phone I purchased was an older model (Pixel3). When I power it up, it has the Googel logo????? I'm wondering (as a non-techie, simple guy on the street: was I completely scammed???)

[@NatTuck]

If you bought a phone from Rob I doubt you got scammed. I suggest you bring your phone to a competent local phone/computer technician, explain your issues, and have them fix it for you and provide you some basic training on how to use it.

[@hikaroto2791]

awsome! do you have a review after a week or sometime how things went? about the use of guardian vpn etc?

[@NatTuck]

I ended up doing a clean reinstall for root so f-droid could auto-update properly.

[@hikaroto2791]

@@NatTuck mmm i see, allright

[@TimGriess]

Can you install all the the standard crypto currency apps on this phone?

[@NatTuck]

It's difficult to install payware apps without installing the Play Store. That being said, any cryptocurrency app that's distributed as Play Store payware is probably a scam, if not a monetary scam then a philosophical one.

[@Designer_TopG]

Is pixel 4 a small one ? Is pixel 3 bigger? Which phone is the biggest ?

[@DexEngineer]

I miss network monitoring test in this video. Do you plan to make follow up of this Quick Review?

[@NatTuck]

I ended up reflashing the phone for root, so I don't have Rob's install image to do further testing with.

[@joelchrono]

You should have used scrcpy to record your screen, a lot smoother

[@subiesojourner777]

If you have one of these phones and there is an OS update, will they act like an iPhone and notify you it's available then then download and install it?

[@NatTuck]

Not forever. They do occasionally require manual updates to new major versions of LineageOS, and there are times when it's appropriate to hold off on those updates. That being said, being a couple versions behind is rarely a critical problem (reguardless of what people who don't understand computer security panic about).

[@infotruther]

I see a part2&3 coming here. The third part being hardware like kill switches ect...

[@jangofet555]

is there an option to buy a de-googled phone that will work in Canada (BC)?

[@NatTuck]

If you can use a used Google Pixel phone on any local carrier they can probably support a de-googled phone. My guess would be that Canada is similar to the US, but I'm not sure of that. Maybe try asking a phone vendor like Rob Braxman or the CalyxOS guy.

[@jangofet555]

@@NatTuck i recently ordered a google pixel 3a renewed from amazon for $256 canadian. i might try a degoogle it myself if its easy.

[@wlonsdale1]

Got one from him but I can't update it!

[@NatTuck]

You might need to do a clean install to go to Lineage 18, but there's no strong reason to rush to do that - Lineage 17 should be fine for the moment.

[@CaptainRon1913]

Nice review, thanks for posting

[@alanw4803]

Question: Does it matter what launcher we use? I use Microsoft Launcher. Safe for privacy? Any recommendations? Trebuchet, Lawnchair, Nova?

[@NatTuck]

If you're worried about surveillance then I wouldn't recommend using a proprietary launcher. That's especially true for stuff from large vendors like Microsoft, since they tend to have features like telemetry enabled, which would upload every action you take in the program to an analytics server. With the launcher, that's every action on your phone that isn't inside a specific app.

[@alanw4803]

@@NatTuck I appreciate the comment! May I ask what Launcher you recommend? Microsoft Launcher is so good :( I wonder if they would still capture and upload this data if I denied Analytics reporting and disabled permissions. No way to combat it other than use a different launcher?

[@terrywfrazier]

Which boot loader warning does this phone display at startup - Yellow or Orange. If Yellow, does the phone receive and install LineageOS auto-updates? Thanks.

[@NatTuck]

It came on Lineage 17, so it's not going to update in any case.

[@rogergietzen2191]

If I need to use Facebook messenger and WhatsApp for my work, does it make sense to even get a degoogled phone? Are there still some privacy benefits? I guess I'm not followed by Google at all. But Facebook would know my identity as soon as a login. And then can harvest all the data they want. Is my thinking correct?

[@NatTuck]

Having an app like Facebook on your phone has privacy issues, but those issues aren't nearly as severe as allowing Google to have complete control over the entire phone OS. An app can collect quite a bit of data, including things that aren't necessarily obvious like location, but the OS distributor has more control of a phone than the physical owner.

[@rogergietzen2191]

@@NatTuck Thanks. That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm considering keeping my old phone around just for WhatsApp and doing the rest of the Facebook on a laptop. Which would even further limit FB ability to get data. Thanks for your perspective

[@bobstringer1739]

Does this phone prevent people from remotely installing spy software and if so why ?

[@NatTuck]

Probably. This phone came with LineageOS and no proprietary app store, which means it probably doesn't have a universal back door. I did a whole video on that idea, but the short version is that any mechanism for automatic updates that involves a user account could be used to remotely install arbitrary software for a specific user. That still leaves several potential vulnerabilities. One of those is the baseband, which is the actual hardware that connects to the cellular network. That's probably a backdoor for cellular providers and three letter agencies. The only way to have a phone without that is something like a Linux phone. There's also the issue of vulnerabilities in the software, but mostly any vulnerabilities in a Google-free Android ROM will also appear in Google Android.

[@touchdownk]

good video, good review. thanks!

[@Beaheadoeverybody]

In all honesty I love this privacy phones but the thing I really wish this phones would have is that if they could be much smooth and fast so they won't lag and also if they could have new modern features

[@NatTuck]

You can de-google current generation phones, like the Pixel 6, so you're not missing out on any hardware performance or features. Honestly though, I think that's prioritizing the wrong things - mobile app functionality isn't really spec-limited, and other considerations like replaceable batteries or headphone jacks that are available in phones with lower specs seem more valuable to me.

[@idcrafter-cgi]

i like the mozilla location services because you could opt-out your wifi networks unlike other nlp from like google, Microsoft or apple etc.

[@NatTuck]

That is an improvement. That being said, they still necessarily produce a log of your locations when you use their location service.

[@jmzsil]

Just curious. I just came across this video while I’m trying to find out anyone who did a overview of the Punkt phone. I’m wondering how secure it is. Thank you for this video, I was wondering about Rob’s work.

[@zehph]

You can skip a lot of trouble and get a really usable and very secure package with a pixel 4 and Graphene, they cover security very strictly and manage updates for you... It won't have even microg, but it can be your main phone for personal stuff and you can get some other phone for the bio luminescent stuff

[@alexhnd552]

I recommand you check the iodéOS firewall, very very powerful

[@NatTuck]

What goals are you trying to accomplish with a firewall?

[@alexhnd552]

@@NatTuck well, block trackers ....

[@BrewsterMcBrewster]

Great review and you have a white board. I'm subscribing.

[@HOLLYHOUSE11]

Rob Braxman is an effing stud. What a bad ass. Hes a G.

[@mostlylame1973]

Create a weekly usage review for this device.

[@NatTuck]

I don't know that me doing a usage review of an Android device is that exciting. I've been running de-googled Android for years, so aside from the fact that I reflashed for root my experience with this device is basically just "I installed my normal apps and everything works as expected".

[@davidprock904]

If you setup microG so you can log into KZbin, how bad is that?

[@NatTuck]

Signing into a Google account on your phone means you've basically lost.

[@rodnacargenteo3690]

@@NatTuck KZbin Vanced?

[@JimJones-999]

How are you able to tell if the brax phone isn’t riddled with spyware or back doors?

[@NatTuck]

There's no way to know for sure. But he might not be trying to spy on you, which is more than we can say for any major phone vendor. This is actually an important tradeoff with any product or service marketed as a "privacy" thing. It might be legit, or it might be a honeypot (see the recent an0m app thing with the FBI). Short of verifiable, audited, and large volume anonymous-purchase supply chains forstandard hardware and open source software there's no way to really be sure.

[@mistyculous9644]

I have been following Rob Braxman since he started on Periscope many years ago - when he had no products and instead just had a privacy "mission." His products came gradually, as he saw the need for things he could do for people to improve their privacy. I really trust the guy, having known him this long. He's proved the security of Brax.me in live streams and show the lack of logs for his bytzVPN - So...

[@JimJones-999]

Unless someone looks at the source code for brax OS we are all just guessing. Anyone can install a back door into lineage depending on the distro. Personally don’t know enough about it to attempt. Lineage needs an OTA download and setup pure and simple. Eliminate the middle man.

[@lockergr]

You've got the triple six in your user name, so why would I trust you? Does pyramid Nat actually own all these shilly looking accounts?

[@TimGriess]

Can this phone be used with any cellular service?

[@NatTuck]

Sure, just not for phone calls or SMS without some customization.

[@HoneyBadger1779]

What about OS updates/security?

[@NatTuck]

It's LineageOS, so you can pull OS updates from them as usual. As for "security", it depends on your threat model. IMO, privacy is both a security issue and a strong proxy for other major security concerns, so only other well-supported open source mobile OSes are even worth considering as alternatives for security reasons.

[@oldman6172]

Rob does not root the phones so manual updating is required his mail in service costs $139 plus's shipping both ways.

[@DariusLundberg]

Is this true??

[@lockergr]

He's doing OTA updates.

[@Michi-go5xi]

What about a GSI? I cannot afford buying one of those phones because I my country's currency sucks... And there's no custom ROM for my phone, yet I can install a vanilla GSI and it has been working pretty well :/ I don't know if it does the same, I don't need MicroG tho, I'm not interested in push notifications and stuff like that.

[@NatTuck]

The Google Generic System Images include Google Play Services, so aren't suitable for privacy or autonomy. I'd look into trying to find a phone that supports a custom ROM. If you're not in the US, there's a good chance that bootloader unlocked phones are available in your local market.

[@abrotherinchrist]

Question: Why would I buy a de-Googled GOOGLE phone?

[@NatTuck]

Because, in spite of sounding silly, it's the best current option for a smartphone controlled by the owner rather than the manufacturer, cell carrier, or arbitrary other security threat.

[@abrotherinchrist]

​@@NatTuck If Intel can put a back door into their chips, what would prevent Google, the biggest and arguably the most powerful tech company on the planet, from putting back doors in their software and hardware that would undermine any efforts to de-Google their phones? If the phone is FROM Google then how can we trust that it can be de-Googled? Likewise, if the internet was built by and is currently controlled by government agencies and their corporate constituents, how can we expect to de-centralize the internet? We'd have to build something entirely new, which is nigh impossible without funding and support at the highest levels. The best option would be Linux phones, IMO. Truly open source.

[@TheLostSingles]

@@abrotherinchrist It's definitely difficult to trust google.

[@Jeff-Vader_head_of_catering]

What about logging into the default email app to your Google mail? Would that still be secure?

[@NatTuck]

Given the threat model I normally consider, using Google mail at all means you're already completely compromised. Your email *is* your identity - delegating that to Google means they own your identity. Hooking up your email app to Google mail won't make that significantly worse, although it will allow Google to identify you in any other use of the phone as well.

[@budd1814]

Do you provide a phone that is anything like this phone? Or,,,, Do you have something better??

[@NatTuck]

I don't, but I did do a video on how to set up something slightly better yourself: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGPCgamjeLySZpI

[@emmanuelpetit8291]

Does he refer to android as "WE"?

[@sunnydayz9032]

Is there a GPS app that you would recommend this safe?

[@NatTuck]

OsmAnd is completely offline. You download the map data, and no searches or location data leaves your phone.

[@mattf1787]

As a non-techsavvy individual how is this? Are there any other option available for de-googled phones without having to DIY? Thanks again for the review I've been eying these for awhile

[@pyrephone6275]

Check out pyrephone.com They have completely de-googled phones with 3 pre-installed software options for different levels of tech-savvyness. I have one running /e/ and honestly don't notice any difference to stock android in day to day use, except for the fact I'm more comfortable all my data isn't stolen and sold to anyone/everyone.

[@pyrephone6275]

Short article comparing some pre-installed security/privacy open source smart phone operating systems pyrephone.com/de-googled-rom-comparison-e-os-vs-lineage-vs-calyx-vs-graphene/

[@patr10t762]

I aquired two from the same seller on ebay and am very pleased. There are low priced options occasionally.

[@mattf1787]

@@pyrephone6275 Great! Thanks man, good to see other options. Not that I don't like Rob Braxman, I really like seeing what other options there are out there in terms of degoogled phones

[@candidob8683]

/e/OS has a graphical installer as well as sell phones directly from the /e/ foundation website. Maybe cheaper. CalyxOS also has simple install method. Both have reviews on KZbin as well as user friendly apps and services.

[@richardholt3191]

Where did you get a telephone number

[@NatTuck]

I think I was on T-Mobile when I made that video.

[@Freeknickers24]

7:00 you talked like the Resident-Select joepedo. Its fla flaflmedetedte

[@ArtOfHealth]

Hey Nat, you did not mention whether or not you, the new owner of that phone can remove many of the apps you do not like. I do not like just disabling them. They take up space. I use Netguard off the Fdroid store and stuff does not do what it wants to do. I turn off wifi and cellular access at will.

[@NatTuck]

With a custom ROM like LineageOS, you can remove everything except the core Android apps (e.g. Phone, Messages, Camera, Gallery, etc). I ended up reinstalling this phone to get root - with root and the console you can conceptually uninstall or replace *any* app, although that may break things since parts of the system may assume that core apps are always installed.

[@ArtOfHealth]

@@NatTuck Thanks for clarifying that.

[@jim5461]

DDG browser is still chromium (Google) based. I'm not sure what privacy or security it might offer over chromium, at its foundation.

[@NatTuck]

With Microsoft moving Edge to a Chromium base, there are only two remaining modern browser engines: the Chromium one and the one in Firefox. Mozilla actively killed Gecko embedding, making it very difficult to make alternate browsers based on Firefox. That leaves Google successful at making Chromium effectively the only remaining browser - starting with Chromium and adding features to it (like DDG browser, Brave, etc) is the only real option for privacy-centric browsers today short of going back to webkit and accepting that many websites won't work due to feature churn.

[@jim5461]

@@NatTuck thanks I was hoping someone would know more than me on the topic. Why not use Firefox, is it for the compatibility note you mentioned? I've been using it for months on desktop and phone, for the reason it isn't chromium based and works well for almost all sites.

[@Alan-gg7cz]

You say reasonably good condition? It's not new?

[@NatTuck]

If I remember correctly, this appeared to be an excellent condition used phone. That's typical for de-googled phones.

[@giuliom8520]

I'm a Rob Braxman fan. Great job on the review. I want to know if would have to build my android contacts from scratch, or is there a way to get my contacts from my old Android phone onto it?

[@basedblueboy8770]

I'd guess that you'd need a micro SD card or another connection to transfer the contact data, but I haven't tried it myself.

[@giuliom8520]

@@basedblueboy8770 It looks like I can just send all the contacts.

[@NatTuck]

An alternative to copying by hand is to use a trusted CardDAV server to sync contacts. I should probably do a video on running self-hosted network services at some point.

[@iteclab]

I would caution about the Pixel 3. Rob said that T-Mobile would provide a SIMM card for it, but T-Mobile told me that the Pixel 3 was not eligible. So they gave me a Sprint one instead. Here they are letting Sprint cell sites die off, so I will not be able to use Sprint after October. One major problem I have had with my (2nd) Google phone from BraxMe is that I can not get texting to work at all. And the third problem I had was trying to get ahold of anyone from BraxMe by phone or email to address the texting problem. Good luck with that! I appreciate Rob’s skill and efforts, but for my third privacy phone this year, I think I will look elsewhere.

[@NatTuck]

The Pixel 3 has been working well for me so far on Verizon. Having support issues with T-Mobile is weird. It'd be interesting to test if there are actually any problems if you use a T-Mobile sim or if you just got a clueless rep.

[@silvercat151]

You can get T mobile Sim cards on eBay. I bought four very cheaply on eBay. Then just phone up and get a phone number attached. I didn’t even have to give any information about the phone or anything. I’m on a prepaid account. It was very easy.

[@mistyculous9644]

You can only contact about Rob Braxman phone issues using Brax.me Rob and his service people don't use email or talk on the phone.

[@lockergr]

@@mistyculous9644 This is my understanding as well. I'm pretty sure he reads all of his video comments though, because I think he's censored them.

[@c-LAW]

Nice review! Any phone and rom you recommend besides the pixel?

[@NatTuck]

For just having a working smartphone, the Pixel 3 with LineageOS seems pretty solid. The 3a has a headphone jack, so it might be even better. I'm playing around a bit with the Librem 5 and PinePhone, and those seem really promising longer term.

[@c-LAW]

@@NatTuck Many thanks!

[@JR-qb7qt]

@@NatTuck I bought a pinephone and put Ubuntu on it, followed all of Rob's instructions. This was over a year ago. I'm not a tech guy and although I did get it all working and uploaded which I surprised myself to be honest, the phone wasn't able to call only text I think. It was just too complicated for me so I ended up buying a Moto G7 on ebay and sending it to Rob for the ROM install and total was about $190 shipping included so it was much cheaper than both the pinephone and one of his preinstalled phones and less headache for someone like me. I can only hope Rob is a guy we can trust but than again he just said in a recent video he was vaxxed and had a booster as well. I just find it mind boggling how someone can be so aware of what is going on with all this corruption of privacy but then not see the truth of what's going on with the Vaccine agenda? Seems a little odd.....

[@Davidvp]

Pixel phones are the ones with biggest custom rom support. I don't own myself but I don't think it takes more than 20 min to unlock bootloader and install any custom. I'd also say there's probably much more interesting roms for pixel than lineageos although lineageos is still one of the best for stability and long term support.

[@NatTuck]

Once you've figured it out, you can definitely do one in about 20 minutes. But if you just ordered a used Pixel and plan to install a custom ROM for the first time, I'd schedule about three hours for it and plan for about a 25% chance that you got a bootloader-locked phone and will need to order another one.

[@Davidvp]

I'd lie if I said my 1st time was 20 min for sure haha and I didn't know 25% were locked, I'd hate that happening. But when you've done it a couple times the hardest thing imo is to wait for the rom installing and booting and restoring apps and data.

[@U2021-k4c]

If those phones are not new and unused, they will be attributed to you. How do you know who owned them

[@NatTuck]

What's the scenario you're worried about here? Cell carriers know about used phones - the edge case of some active criminal investigation looking for a specific IMEI is pretty unlikely.

[@CaukyAsian]

So it's not degoogled because it has micro g

[@killertigergaming6762]

Not really you need micro g for notifications and other important services so it's understandable that he has it and its better than normal google play services

[@mistyculous9644]

see the post above on this very subject

[@echologname]

Can APKs be sideloaded or no?

[@NatTuck]

Yes. I haven't personally run into an Android device where that's not supported.

[@SnapcrackerzTeam]

Rob Braxman knows is stuff believe that ace

[@jackz8060]

Thanks Very helpful

[@Prince-tn4wt]

When you are a soldier and need to create your sword , because there are some creepy guys sitting in their skyscraper buildings, analyzing what ad to show, 😅

[@geofffelsing1283]

He is not completely clueless? sure Nat!

[@TimGriess]

What kind of secure phones do billionaires use? If money is not an option.

[@NatTuck]

That's an interesting question, but it's important to keep in mind that very rich people have completely different threat models and response options from normal people. One common option is probably not carrying a phone at all because they have minions for that sort of thing. Another option is trusting institutions like large companies and the legal system more because a billionaire can actually meaningfully interact and negotiate with those institutions.

[@TimGriess]

@@NatTuck from what I understand, many billionaires do a lot of communication by texting. I saw a video by a high end realtor in NY who worked with dozens of billionaires. He negotiated and closed many deals through text only.

[@agentmith]

If anyone is seeing this that also is considering the Freedom Phone, get this. Rob knows his shit, and I’d trust him a hundred times more than a Bitcoin millionaire. That being said, don’t trust anyone and take adequate precautions regardless.

[@NatTuck]

Yea, "Freedom Phone" sounds like a scam.

[@agentmith]

@@NatTuck I don’t think it’s a scam per se, but they are definitely taking advantage of all the negative press around big tech lately for sure. I’d love to see you do a break down and see if it delivers on its promises, plus comparing to your phones. It might be a good opportunity to get the word out there about what phones and services you offer also since it will be trending.

[@UteTrac]

If Robs offering is decent then please tell me where to get a great phone that does what he is trying to do?

[@sethdean1384]

Thanks so much for the Overview. Does BraxOS support Updates?

[@oldman6172]

Yes updating lineage happens manually through a notification. But updating to lineage 18.1 require reinstall and is like starting over again.

[@sethdean1384]

@@oldman6172 Thanks.

[@HoneyBadger1779]

@@oldman6172 Explain like I'm a dumb bird. What does this mean for OS updates and security?

[@mistyculous9644]

@@HoneyBadger1779 it's best to not do the Operating system updates on Rob's de-googled phones...because when the updates are released, often drivers haven't yet been written for various apps that you might have on your phone.

[@HoneyBadger1779]

@@mistyculous9644 See that's what I was kind of concerned about because the same thing can happen with Linux and Ubuntu with programs that you need to finagle and adapt In order to get it work on there. Just as a silly example, Minecraft bedrock. So essentially just wait on the updates? This is my first time to experience a degoogled phone.

[@slickwillie3376]

It's either a de-googled smart phone or no phone at all. I'm going no phone at all.

[@NatTuck]

De-Googled phones are good, but there are a bunch of other options. Linux phones like the PinePhone and Librem 5 exist. You can do VoIP with a non-phone device, either over an LTE modem or just over WiFi.

[@sinaalami4148]

Didn't know Braxman sold degoogled phones but I believe he charges too much. A 200$+ fee for a simple 2 hour process seems expensive to me.

[@NatTuck]

It's a simple two-hour process... the second time. The time it takes to figure out how to do it, and to figure out how to figure out how to do it also counts.

[@dougnew8152]

Why couldn’t rob brax man explain his phone like you? I’m still skeptical about 3rd party phones but your explanation is way better than his explanation and I’ve followed him for years but no longer. Brax imo leans toward the conspiracy side.

[@NatTuck]

"Leaning towards the conspiracy side" is just what an accurate evaluation of modern mainstream computing looks like.

[@richardwillis4880]

The key is not to LOG IN to your Google account. Once you do they will have your device ID tied to your real person.

[@NatTuck]

Don't log in to your Google account on your Android device. Also, don't log in to your Google account through any app on the device, including browsers. Also, don't connect to any private WiFi where any other device has connected to your Google account. Also, don't log in to any other account that might share data with Google on any of those devices. Also, don't let anyone who logs into their Google or Apple account connect to your WiFi.

[@amedoc176]

I dont understand, are you self signing these roms or are you selling them without AVB? If so, i think you should really inform your costumer about that these phones are very extremely unsecure, and that any authority could access your data with or without the physical phone. i guess you know about evil maid attacs and the like??

[@NatTuck]

If you're worried about physical access attacks other than simple theft but are buying a phone with an OS installed by a third party then you're probably haven't seriously considered your threat model.

[@amedoc176]

@@NatTuck most people ned a phone from a third party. Most folks dont know hos to flash a device setting up a VPS. So selling these phones as private and secure are simply not true

[@SnapcrackerzTeam]

Nice job man

[@snappysnap955]

So basically you have to be pretty techy to have one of these phones. That seems to be what I am getting from this and I am not. I really want a private non googd phone but I'm not techy in the least

[@NatTuck]

Not really. For phone tasks and web browsing a de-Googled phone works exactly the same as any other smartphone. If anything, being non-technical makes the rest of the stuff easier - if you can't easily get this phone to do something, it probably can't be done in a way that preserves your privacy.

[@Heisenberg355]

this is kind of cool, but waaay too expensive. You can get a new POCO F3 for less than 400€ and do the same thing (unlock bootloader and install lineagesOS). Compare the hardware specs of these phones!

[@NatTuck]

Assume that unlocking a bootloader and installing a custom ROM will take a semi-technical user about 6 hours of focused work. Further, assume that many non-technical users get about an hour a day of time when they can do that sort of focus. For someone with a job, a full week of free time is easily worth a couple hundred bucks. The better argument is around whether or not it's possible to outsource security, but the only way to fix that is learning stuff, and buying a pre-installed de-googled phone is a good step on that path.

[@Heisenberg355]

@@NatTuck I guess its preference... But I think a better step on that path would be unlocking a bootloader etc yourself, that way you learn way more than when you buy a phone where someone else made it! But i've always prefered doing things on my own, so I can see why someone would buy a degoogled phone

[@furzkram]

MicroG anonymizes. Who needs notifications can hardly do it otherwise.

[@eukelarTV]

I would just buy a used or even new pixel phone and use the web installer for grapheneos it’s less then ten minutes and your phone is ready to use you literally click a couple buttons

[@NatTuck]

I really do need to give Graphene a try at some point.

[@lockergr]

You're going to trust an OS called _Graphene_ 😂 If that doesn't say government-backed project than I don't know what does!