Norfolk Southern Trains on Saluda Grade (1990-1992)

Welcome to the Painter Series by Delay In Block Productions.
In our first feature-length presentation, we’ll be spending time watching trains on Saluda Grade in the early 1990s through the lens of railfan and model railroader, Ed Painter. Over a period of 7 years, beginning in early 1990 and ending in the winter of 1997, Painter spent a significant amount of time documenting Norfolk Southern trains on the steepest mainline railroad grade in the United States. This is the first time Painter has shared his footage with the world and we’re grateful he chose Delay In Block Productions as his outlet.
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Copyright 2022 Delay In Block Productions™. Any illegal reproduction of this video and its content is strictly prohibited. Full legal action will take place if necessary if reproduced or published without expressed written permission from Delay In Block Productions.
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[@chicnwing4519]

Even with no trains ,all railfans need to go to Saluda ,just stand on the crossing in downtown a see the rails disappear over the hill in each direction, just looks unreal

[@freedomfan4272]

If you travel alittle further south to Melrose you can climb onto tracks and see the runaway track and alittle further south than that you climb the hill to the tracks to see the washout that had been there for several years now. I was and raised in Henderson county and my dad's parents lived less than mile from the tracks then went to saluda

[@tonyromano6220]

It looks amazing.

[@jamielacourse7578]

Long way to drive to read a plaque.....but you can get one hell of a good breakfast there.....

[@gottasay4766]

I wouldn’t mind the graffiti if it was original, varied and artistic.

[@amyreynolds3619]

I love what I saw at Saluda and the museum.

[@UltraMagaFan]

It’s pretty amazing how much camera technology has improved in the past 30 years. Back in the early 90s videos like this were considered good quality and they had to film on full sized cameras with tapes. Now we can film 4k, which is 1000 times better,on a tiny phone that fits in our pocket and saves the videos digitally. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, it was just an observation. I still really enjoyed the video.

[@cadenmcmexican7999]

I’m so glad Ed was able to film and preserve this and you were able to distribute and narrate this for future generations to see. Heck even my generation, it shut down the year I was born. I would love to go back in time and see these classic diesel’s along with the skilled and friendly train crew battling the grade

[@tylersuttle5825]

My dads family is from Morganton, NC and I remember the many summer vacations that always included watching the 40-2s and Dash 9's coming down and going up the grade. I was 11 in summer 2000 when I saw the last trains on Saluda for myself. Watco owns the tracks from Asheville to Hendersonville. If Watco, for whatever reason, decides to open the line into operation. I'm applying for a transfer.

[@DucatiGTS]

Just seeing those high-hoods, makes me wish we could see this again today. What a shame, if only we could go back.

[@brianbooher7318]

Shout out to ed painter for sharing this with all of us.thanks biddy

[@danielboone3770]

Oh yeah, NS trains of the early 90's! I love it.

[@new_comment]

A big part of my early childhood, was living by the N&W coal branch in Kopperston, WV, in the early 80s. I was always amazed at how the empties, headed too Kopperston tipple. Could climb the short but steep grade coming out of the tony fork bottom. In order to run the mountain side line for the rest of the trip to the foot of Kopperston mountain. It sounded awesome when they dropped back down the hollar with a loaded train. It's so awesome that Mr. Painter is sharing this footage with us. Thank you

[@christopherdibble5872]

Still get a tear in my eye when I hear an old train in the night.

[@buddyhenson2559]

Great video! As a Train Dispatcher/Chief Dispatcher in the early 90’s on the former Tennessee Division, I remember fondly the Belmont, Catawba, and CP&L trains that would operate off the former Pocahontas Division through Bulls Gap, Tn and on toward Asheville. At the time, Bulls Gap was a crew change point as well as the location that power was added, or cut into the middle of a train. We were responsible for seeing that power was always available as add-ons at Bulls Gap for whatever the Pokey would be sending our way in a 24 hour period. This often meant stripping power off empty trains before heading back to the coalfields to be reloaded. This took a lot of coordination, a great mechanical team at Bulls Gap, and crews that reported for duty and were ready to work and move out. It was very challenging to manage the train flow through Bulls Gap, while supplying crews and power. A heavy loaded run from the Pokey made for a stressful shift. We all absolutely earned our money. Great employees, great times!

[@greykirbach5459]

It’s amazing that trains went up such a steep grade of track.

[@jeffherdz]

Love me some Norfolk Southern Loco action.

[@greykirbach5459]

Again absolutely amazing and thanks to Ed for the video’s. Thanks also to Delay In Block Productions.

[@tcgreen51]

This is fantastic! I especially like it because I grew up around Inman/Landrum/Campobello in the 70s and early 80s.

[@adamwong246]

You can almost see my childhood home around the 15 minute mark. Growing up nearby started a boyhood obsession with all things locomotive.

[@StoryboardGroup]

I can't believe it was practice to jump off engines going that fast (9:27). I get that they wanted to keep the momentum going, but just try that on any railroad today haha!

[@mic8040]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJerhJ6Fos2aerM look at 10:30 in this video 😬😆

[@cnw8717]

That aint fast dude. Most class 1s allow boarding moving equipment again anyways.

[@mic8040]

@@cnw8717 at a very slow speed, not 10-15mph 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@MercOne]

I dream of the day this re-opens and Big Boy makes the climb.

[@MITracks]

Back when the goal was to actually move freight and not worry about the trip optimizer.

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

So true it hurts

[@hotshotelectrichead521]

Amazing video! I wish the Saluda Grade never shut down!

[@jkeelsnc]

Those Chips were heading to Champion Paper Mill in Canton, NC. It is now Blue Ridge Paper Mill.

[@adamwong246]

When I was a child in Gramling SC, I'd place pennies on the track and then collect them as flattened circles of copper. When the train went by, I remember that it rattled the windows at our house down the way. Sad to think it's one more thing lost to the ages.

[@markquiswest6607]

I love the ole Southern P5 Horns!

[@_mynewcareer]

Wow the shot at 9:14 is insane

[@nicholaschard7143]

Thank you for the great video, this is the Holy Grail of Saluda Grade videos. Like all the fallen flag cars and the high hood locomotives some running long hood forward like the old school days.

[@vettebecker1]

Great footage, so many memories. I really miss seeing cabooses on freight trains

[@ozarkmidlandsouthernrailway]

That is some wonderful footage. We are so fortunate that Mr. Painter took the time and made the effort to document the trains on Saluda Grade. Just awesome! Bill B.

[@scotabot7826]

Hard to imagine those locomotives are managing 27 million Lbs coming down that mountain. The forces involved are mind bending!!!

[@thomasbritton640]

Its good to see your subscriber numbers moving upward your filming and presentation are second to none!!!!!

[@resdupbug]

This is a fantastic video, please keep the series going, can't wait for the next installment on the "Painter" series. These historic documents are priceless, how lucky we are to get front seats. Thank you DIB, love your channel!

[@matthewfawbush7731]

I give you and Ed 10 out of 10 I did went to Andover VA last week Through Big Stone Gap went to Andover Yard in Appalachia VA is where the Belmont Coal Train leaves the yard headed through Norton Duffield on to Natural Tunnel up to Speer's Ferry Waltkins and way it way to the mighty Saluda Grade It's was back in the 90's when I was a kid, when I see coal trains with mid-slave to haul 96 coal hoppers that's 48 in the first half and 48 in the rear with mid-slave headed on to Hayne Yard Spartanburg SC It brings back all the good times when Southern Railway hauling coal from the mountains of Southwest Virginia to the steepest mightest class 1 mountain railroad grade at Saluda, and on to Spartanburg We missed the good old days of Coal Trains hauling black diamonds From the mine to the plant at Belmont NC You and Ed might like to come to Duffield where my dad works at Komatsu he and his buddies made miners from scratch they made of the miners where every Coal mine in Southwest Virginia needs a miner from komatsu it is the only plant that built miners where made and built in Duffield VA. Drayton, 🤘🎸🤘 Keep on Rockin Rockstar Bro 🤘🎸🤘 🏁🏁 Matthew 🏁🏁

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

Trains just look better with a caboose on the end.

[@michaelfeldman-budarick9295]

Couldn't agree more 🚂

[@yaboidspdadon5838]

Rather my tax payer dollar’s go to railroad infrastructure and not the places they go overall

[@pennsylvanianrrfoamer]

Very glad to see this unique collection. It took me 2 days to watch it all and enjoyed every moment of it. Ed's work along with Delay in Block deserve a spot in the American Railroading Hall of Fame.

[@tedm5398]

No graffiti on the rail cars and a vintage Pizza Hut. Nice video.

[@anb7408]

First video I've seen of autoracks and 86' boxcars on that line! The low-slung intermodal spine and double stack cars were prohibited from running that line due to the possibility of them bottoming out on a couple of the crests/hills. My old Southern timetable has SEVEN pages dedicated solely to the operating rules for that three mile stretch of track!

[@railhead7616]

Thanks for sharing some GREAT footage.

[@albertvieira6635]

I enjoyed the video and your commentary you do an outstanding job people should pay you for what your knowledge is you have a wealth of knowledge you keep up the good work and please be safe and be aware of your surroundings at all times you are a valuable person keep up the good work the Lord's blessings be with you where are you traveling radio-controlled locomotive known as dpu

[@wolfgang548]

Great video. It's a shame to see historic lines like this become abandoned. The scene at Saluda at 30:15 looks so much like an area on the HO Scale layout of NSmodeler24.

[@regularguy7266]

As a steam railfanner, I'd like to share a fantasy I thought up in my head. This is most likely never going to happen ever, but it's a good fantasy. What if someone started a huge Historical Society to restore the Saluda Grade as a regional Railroad, and run large steam there? Even better, what if they improved the rails of the Saluda Grade to handle extremely heavy locomotives and trains, and then plan to restore and operate a Chesapeake and Ohio Allegheny class Steam Locomotive? Not only does it exceed in power to climb the grades and carry heavy passenger trains (it's the most powerful steam locomotive ever designed), but it's articulation can help it around curves too. I'd say C&O Allegheny 1601 would be restored, and that 1601 will be an oil burner. I could see the Historical Society running the Saluda Grade and 1601 like the Western Maryland, but if course, tremendously bigger. This fantasy would be absolutely beautiful to see come to life, but, one can dream.

[@jacksonslaterelevatorraila6444]

truly a heartbreaker but fun look back and no more dogs 46:46

[@Retired88M]

Other than this being a legendary section of track…NO GRAFFITI … on any of the cars in the first 2 trains

[@paullindberg9230]

You guys never disappoint. the saaluda grade engineers top of the totem pole"!! thatgrade and the selection of power back then. was what we now see very few still in the Sd40 and power of. That Eras was. to make the trip and possibility was able to. find power that had the "TripOptimizer"; upgrade with chip "micropressors" Anyway again you guy s in deep cranking them out of the park. "KEEP THEM COMMING!!!

[@theepicrail5124]

Very beautiful.

[@bluehappyscrap]

AWESOME!!!⏪⏮️⏪⏮️⏪🆕⏪⏮️⏪⏮️⏪⏮️⏪⏮️⏪

[@205004gs]

Spectacular documentary!👍👍

[@roberthelm5533]

Great video!! Love the footage. I was there shooting video in 92 and 93 of the 611 and shot for Bob Loehne back then for the excursions. I was there with Ed. Set up at Sand cut for the first one.

[@surajkalase4171]

The greats information sir 💘💝💖👍👌💋💯

[@TezcatlipocaMountyRailfan]

I met Ed a few years ago. Cool guy. He’s perfectly placed for great pictures of trains coming from DeButts or Cleveland. I live in nearby Apison, so it’s I’m sure I’ll cross his path again at some point.

[@DelayInBlockProductions]

My wife is from Apison.

[@TezcatlipocaMountyRailfan]

@@DelayInBlockProductions Wow. This really is a small world. 🙂.

[@garypeck4612]

Bravo!

[@tracynation2820]

Super. 💙 T.E.N.

[@shadowofbrazil]

I work out of Hayne Yard regularly, and as far west we go on the W Line is Inman. We only get a TA between Sigsbee and Inman. And only 1 train goes up there. P83 or what we call "Rouster." We have 15 industries we work. Not everyday obviously lol And oddly enough, the Columbia dispatcher is the one you have to call for a TA. And Asheville doesn't even have a yardmaster anymore. All trains in Asheville contact the Hayne yardmaster in Spartanburg. or "Hayne Tower," despite the yardmaster no longer using the tower because its been condemned. And when you go back to Hayne Yard, once you get to Sigsbee, the W line turns into the A&S Mainline. And most of the time, its filled with autoracks for BMW so you have to go through crossovers to go into the west yard at Hayne and go through the yard since the Hayne Yard Lead at Sigsbee is disconnected from the mainline and is currently filled with boxcars that aren't being used and are stored there. Oh how the times have changed.

[@lnproductions3227]

Gorgeous footage Ed! Wish I could have been there to see it when they still ran Trains Over "The Mountain Of Challenge" called "Saluda Grade"

[@paullindberg9230]

To top off that Penn Centrail question I asked JC earlier The Penn Central unit is always running point!

[@KG-xt4oq]

With a train going upgrade every weekday before ops were terminated, I wonder why NS (or Southern, pre-merger) never had a pair of SD-40s (or 45s/50s/60s) stationed at Melrose to serve as pushers. Would have eliminated having to triple the grade and probably cut down the need to double the grade by a good amount as well. Seems like the limit for pulling non-woodchip consists up the grade was around 20 cars and it appears the daily turn had 10-15 woodchip cars in addition to 15-20 non woodchip cars...surely putting 2 pushers on the back could get the entire train up the grade in one go?

[@brianbooher7318]

What I hear is to much stress on couplers an track if you tried to take anymore than what they did

[@KG-xt4oq]

@@brianbooher7318 Ummm, Southern ran a 7000' / 13,500 ton / 135 car coal train through Saluda with 4 lead units and 2 mid-train helpers on a regular basis for years; I think there would not be any problems running a 25-35 car train with 3 leads and a couple pushers...

[@brianbooher7318]

@@KG-xt4oq that was I believe in the other direction.i maybe wrong a out that.but also the height of theeoodchip cars played a part.but you are right I no the Belmont cone thru loaded but it came down the mountain the chips went up the mountain if I'm correct

[@KG-xt4oq]

@@brianbooher7318 You do realize that the town of Saluda is on a peak, right? Saluda grade at 4+% on one side and a 1.5-2.0% grade on the other. Yes, the loaded coal train went down the grade, but the empty train, which probably weighs about as much as a mixed consist of 25-35 cars, went UP the grade as well. Even going downhill there was a lot of coupler stress on the loaded coal train, but apparently SOU/NS was okay with it since they kept running that train. Also, with pushers on the back of a loaded 25-35, the stress on couplers would be reduced. I'm talking about 2-3 dozen cars going up the grade, not a 100+ manifest...

[@brianbooher7318]

@@KG-xt4oq yea I no it's on a mountain it's down hill both ways but more so one way than the other

[@brandonoconnor1079]

I was walking down Saluda several years ago and someone had removed or knocked down one of the signals and I got it and restored it.

[@planebois]

Is this gonna have the photo of the two crews at saluda picking blackberries?

[@alanmydland5210]

Bring a union basket full home

[@planebois]

@@alanmydland5210 ?

[@davidandyvonne06]

Here's a bit of operational info for everyone...the SD50, #6525....it was the 3rd unit on the headed of the Belmont Coal which Mr. Painter caught at Melrose. It was standard practice to cut the 3rd engine out at Hayne and run it back to Asheville with a handful of cars, in this case, five loaded woodchip cars as you saw. The coal train went on from Hayne to Belmont with a Greenville District crew, the Asheville crew returned to Asheville with the one engine and whatever was deemed sensible by the Hayne Yardmaster. Sometimes, the one engine would have enough cars to do a double on the GRADE.

[@redtrainproductions]

That horn at 41:07 sounds quite interesting. It has a higher pitch and the tone kind of resembles a k5la.

[@fakecumberland]

Great prime mover sound, but for Southern’s sake, fix the horns on that 3254!

[@williamflowersrailfannerpr3808]

Good old days

[@bobpaulino4714]

Great video. Nice to see cars without all of the spray painted garbage all over them.

[@amyreynolds3619]

I am getting buildings and getting a information about Saluda grade to build the grade up my upper level of my Southern railway layout and maybe the loops down too.

[@adrianspeeder]

I'd argue the skill of an operator vs a quality computer control.

[@ricktell7454]

The spur rail from Mukilteo, WA to Boeing is 6%.

[@DelayInBlockProductions]

Not a mainline, fam.

[@EricDKaufman]

@@DelayInBlockProductions ZING!!! LOL okay but seriously... 6% You have to get out there and get some video. *grew up an hour from saluda. Those are the kinda woods I played in as a kid. 07 hat tip

[@paullindberg9230]

Three Northfolk Southern Big Porches ,switchers!

[@paramedicineman89]

That dismount at 9:30 and then not doing a roll by inspection 💀

[@nicholasmedovich6729]

I was still shocked that there were U23B units still in service via 1990

[@jwrailve3615]

Any chance you have any Texas railfan films? Love these videos watch every one

[@Ferrosteph]

I'am really surprised that they dont use more than 3 locomotives ...

[@John-cg8hb]

Classic IROC-Z28 at end.

[@nicholasmedovich6729]

If i remember correctly, wasn’t 1990 the year that the Uboats were retired, scrapped or rebuilt???

[@heavydutyrepair64]

Man I love that massive coal train

[@LarryCassar]

In Livonia I know a good spot you could also do some train watching

[@rogerdavidson217]

My time book proved that.

[@michaelhollingsworth9209]

Do you have video of steam locomotive 611 on saluda grade

[@DelayInBlockProductions]

Yes, that will be uploaded in the future.

[@michaelhollingsworth9209]

Cool that's awesome

[@ralphaverill2001]

I imagine getting a train safely down Saluda Grade was trickier than pulling the train up.

[@TheJaernvaeg]

With the railroads braking is always trickier than showving something a grade up.

[@texasandpacific610]

Why did they close the grade? Oh I like all the videos y’all upload

[@samusvi2693]

yes it is sad to see time marching on. even videos of the rust belt are so sad to watch these days.

[@LarryCassar]

Too bad they'll never bring that line of Saluda grade back to service again

[@wrangler70jkujeep74]

Any time I go to area I stay safe distance escape route in case rail derailment or any issue comes up .

[@bradfordthompson8326]

Any rumors of reopening this line as just a bypass due to a flood or wreck on the other main line .???

[@brianbooher7318]

Sorry to say itl never reopen .if you don't believe me go have a see it's in horable shape to far gone to ever reopen

[@briandufty5081]

I've tried to explain to people. But unless you see them oun eyes.

[@ronbaker8007]

Going to be a trail soon I hear.

[@QuadMochaMatti]

Dabs from the dibster.

[@xblaccasf4187]

I tried to apply to a job from Norfolk but they never reply.

[@paullindberg9230]

Hey JC,A question?, How many in your opinion are there(Penn Central) locos or units out there in the US rail system?

[@TM-bk3ok]

@1:03:10 are those extra flags on the cab?

[@bentheidioticnerd8993]

March 22 is my birthday! 1:02:27. The only difference is that I am 13 instead of 31.

[@rogerdavidson217]

I had 3 on the head end a 2 in the middle

[@PGHammer21A]

What tracks replaced Saluda - considering this is an ex-main line that was murdered?

[@davidandyvonne06]

The S-line(now AS line) from Asheville to Salisbury, NC...but due to Linwood yard being closed down for awhile(now being used again) all through freight now goes north(Knoxville, TN, through Bristol to Roanoke, VA, then south to Greensboro, NC, and then Linwood. It's a long way around, a lot more diesel fuel, a lot more delay, but that's the NS way! LOL

[@johnblood10]

Just noticed something near the end of the video (around 1:14:50) that piqued my curiosity. Looks like they sandwiched an unusual-looking boxcar between sets of lead locomotives. I know the Southern used to house early Locotrol equipment in a separate car, but that was way before the early 90s & there also aren’t any distributed/helper units on this train. Anyone know what that is?

[@DelayInBlockProductions]

That’s a radio car. NS used them until roughly 1994-1995.

[@johnblood10]

@@DelayInBlockProductions gotcha, I had no idea they used radio cars for that long.

[@jre617]

The lack of graffiti on the cars is a relief. And screw the RRs for not giving a sh!t about it.

[@rogerdavidson217]

I have run the locotives in this video.

[@arthurschipper8906]

I don't think you saw hi hoods like that in the west like you folks saw down there

[@jerrylawrence8477]

Coaster Bikes/ cars!! Use a truck to return them to the top, people will pay to do that..

[@scottynails]

No graffiti on the cars. The good old days

[@nicholasmedovich6729]

Yes indeed. People need to stop tagging freight cars these days

[@thatrandomuploader3362]

Saluda is definitely a rail line i wish was still in use

[@bellaxxi4116]

It’s only really out of service because of washouts. Norfolk Southern stated they have interest in keeping the line instead of selling it

[@fattydoodoo4809]

@@bellaxxi4116 they’re now converting it to a rail trail

[@gottasay4766]

I like that it is being converted to a rail trail but would prefer it be converted to light rail to alleviate the car traffic.

[@nellAyaR2034]

Funny how much things have changed. Train crews wearing normal clothes, jumping on & off moving trains

[@ReadingAreaRailfan]

There's no reason that saluda should be abandoned. There's industry sill there, and even if you couldn't use it for that, it could be used as an operational tourist line. Another F up by my favorite railroad 😬😬😬

[@GavenYurisich-nu5zn]

Foggy days.

[@Milepost1965]

Can someone tell me what the two small white flags on the train represent, I've never seen that before.

[@warreneisenburg2580]

I like your post on KZbin TV but the train sounds blow out the speakers when you turn the volume up to hear your info and remarks the train noise needs to be cut back and the voice volume needs to go up as it is now its unpleasant to view on tv

[@DelayInBlockProductions]

That’s strange. Sorry you’re having a bad experience with the audio. We’ll look into it.