DeltaHawk Jet Fueled Piston Engine Update

DeltaHawk Engines is hardly a newcomer to AirVenture. It's been showing the progression of its Jet-A 4-cylinder engine for a couple of years, but at this year's show it's expecting FAA certification by the end of 2019, and showed up with the 180-HP variant of the engine on a Cirrus. DeltaHawk has been making sizable improvements to the engine, and in this video Dennis Webb gave Larry Anglisano an update on the project and an overview of the latest tech.

[@billsmith5109]

Expected to be certified in six months, for ten years. The fusion energy of aircraft engines.

[@gmcjetpilot]

I can't wait till next year when they announce there getting close to certification again.

[@zanzark1]

IT's next year now. They are getting close to certification.

[@gmcjetpilot]

@@zanzark1 I've heard that "close" thing for 8 or 10 years. I'll believe it when I see it. I doubt it.

[@tinolino58]

April 2021: One year closer to certification 🥂😇🤪🤣😂⚡️

[@harlemerik7747]

I guess Im asking the wrong place but does someone know a method to log back into an Instagram account?? I was stupid lost my account password. I would love any assistance you can give me.

[@harlemerik7747]

@Duncan Archer I really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and Im in the hacking process now. Takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@wanderlpnw]

It's been a year away from certification for 20 years.

[@gmcjetpilot]

Ha ha glad you said it. Sounds like it's a two stroke diesel which is ancient technology. But it does work.

[@randallkelley3600]

Yep, but they do seem to have made a lot more progress than Zoche Aero Diesel, which hasn't even changed their website in over 20 years.

[@SooperToober]

Ouches! Hahaha ! Cheers Mate!

[@COIcultist]

@@gmcjetpilot Lots of different two stroke diesel technology. Most of the two stroke diesels I've seen do have one (exhaust valve) like the old GM units. Obviously two stroke petrol engines have no valves but that is a very different technology. The only two stroke non valve engines I know of are the two piston and two crankshaft per cylinder types, i.e. Roots/Commer and Deltic. Upset there is no engine schematic for this. Link me to a drawing please if I'm just a numpty.Not too knowing on diesels!

[@flybyairplane3528]

gmcjetpilot GM diesel locomotives, were ALL 2 STROKE, , 2 POWER STROKES TO 1 WITH A 4 CYCLE ENGINE,. CHEERS from NJ

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Finally, someone can use the term "intercooler" correctly.

[@loicdore39]

I love the fact that it’s a 2strokes plus it looks awesome !

[@venusreena2532]

2 strokes dont last as long.. usually.. but looks very kewl

[@RunFast64]

This looks like an amazing power plant,.2-stroke turbo/super charged diesel engine. It'll fire like an 8 cyl 4-stroke. DeltaHawk is delivering like Zoche never did.

[@Wingnut353]

If by delivering you mean posting content yearly on the internet with no engines actually available... and a price tag 3x what it should be.

[@yanDeriction]

"jet fueled piston" sounds like a diesel engine to me

[@briantii]

yan-Deriction It is. 2 stroke diesel.

[@gckshea]

@massive irrelevance --HAHA! Def fluid in the air!!

[@pacadet]

@massive irrelevance The real struggle is when the particulate filter needs to regen and the engine goes to 5% power. It's a real bummer when you're flying over a big city.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@Arashi Mokuzai Compression ignition engines ARE diesel engines.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@Arashi Mokuzai Rudolf Diesel himself designed his engine to run on peanut oil, not petroleum. Diesel describes the combustion process, not the fuel.

[@samviation]

Cannot wait for this to be certified, would love a Cirrus SR22 Jet-A for Africa!

[@hankcuccina5260]

A beautiful bit of engineering and looks great too.

[@conantdog]

A modern Detroit diesel aircraft powerplant ! Fantastic 👍👌🛠️

[@jlo13800]

Rotax 582

[@Doc.Holiday]

Exactly…

[@bishopdredd5349]

Yay FAA type cert finally: The engine received its type certificate from the Federal Aviation Administration on April 7, 2023, with first customer deliveries planned for 2024.

[@cleburne-dfwseptic6843]

The NeverEnding Story of deltahawk, I hope they cross the finish line.

[@ryanh1222]

If they do I imagine Continental or Raytheon will buy them and it will disappear.

[@eugeneoreilly9356]

Like they bought the Morane(Renault)design and it disappeared.

[@Walterwaltraud]

Interesting, I don’t know that story, do you have some more details?

[@chuckallen9778]

A new version of the two stroke detroit deisel first manufactured in the 1930s.

[@planegaper]

has no poppit valves in the head , same scavenging foreced induction concept though, more like a sleeve valve , with no sleeves, port position, piston shape and very very precice fueling , with a lot of forced induction pressure, con rods are forged titanium, so the thing as robust as hell .. that's what it seems like anyways, more like a piston port two stroke

[@m0ther_bra1ned12]

As a future A&P, Id love to see more of these. Modern engine. No valves, no cams. Man that sounds nice. XD

[@gmcjetpilot]

2 Stroke diesels have been around for over a hundred years it's not new.

[@m0ther_bra1ned12]

@@gmcjetpilot Things work thier way into aviation slowly thanks to FAA regulations.

[@gmcjetpilot]

@@m0ther_bra1ned12 That is a cliche and excuse. There are certified diesel engines from Continental and another from Europe found in the certified Diamond Twin. The market is small. FAA Experimental amature category gives Americans almost unlimited freedom in engines and airframe. I own and drive a diesel VW. I built an RV7. I have see every automotive and custom engine tried in experimental AC for 35 years, but none have taken over. Why? Heavier, more drag, PSRU issues.... FAA is not the only or biggest roadblock. The market not the FAA drives the development and what works. Certification of aircraft and engines is expensive due to cost of Engineering and testing. True, and that is a factor but in the big picture competition from existing airframes and engines is more of a factor. Unless a quantum leap it will be hard to make it a new plane or engine commercial success. Look at LSA planes costing $200,000. You can buy a used C150 for $15,000. The cost, weight, liquid cooling verses an aircooled gas engines is the question. It's hard to beat a Lycoming or Continental from 200 to 550 cubic inches. If you want more HP then PT6 or TPE331 or Alison/RR250 turbine is the choice. Of course turbine is not typical for GA due to cost unless it's for corporate or wealthy individual. Stop blaming FAA; that is weak. Delta Hawk is expensive and low HP. Who knows if their claims are true. Even if 30% more efficient it would take a long time to get that back over a Lycoming IO360 at 1/3rd the cost by an individual flying 120 hrs a year. Deltahawk wants to use the experimental Community to get flight hours and certify their engine. Great, where are they going to go? Is Piper and Cessna going to start installing them in their aircraft? Too heavy for LSA. Are they going to get STC's to retrofit them in Certifed GA planes? How big is that market? Delta Hawk is offering the engines for $80 or $90 thousand to the experimental Community, but that's a lot when you can put a Lycoming in for $25,000. NOT all this is the blame of FAA. I worked in aircraft certification and I've worked with the FAA and they're not difficult. it's the market that drives more than FAA. The LSA class of planes and pilot rating, Rotax are all new in the USA in last decade or so.

[@badabing69r]

@@gmcjetpilot I can assure you that regulations and liabilities are killing the General Aviation community here in the US. I have tried to purchase a Jet-A powered engine but the engine manufactures will not sell them to me. Why is that ??

[@gmcjetpilot]

@@badabing69r Dude I have been at aircraft certification, since 1985. Tort reform 1994 and 1999 has helped liability. Certification is time consuming and can be expensive. What you want no experienced professionals, no regulations, no standards, no analysis and documention or oversight? *It's the market.* Thwre are less pilots. Who us going to buy it? Is there money to be made? There are 70 years of GA planes built and cheap used planes. I have an RV-7 I built. E-AB kit planes have cut into the certified market. As far as this engine it's $89.9 K. I have less than that in my whole RV-7 with a Lyc O-360 180HP Hartzell CS Prop angel GRT panel. This diesel 180HP engine will not be a Quantum performance or efficienc in my 180HP Lyc powered RV-7. The diesel also weighs more than a piston engine. Don't get me wrong I love diesel. I have a diesel car in fact. It's a tired cliche to say it's all about liability and regulations. Again it's about the market. if there's money to be made people will develop new aircraft. The market is saturated with LSA and used airplanes and experimental. New engines and planes don't do much more than an old C182 or Mooney. You can buy one for the price of a new car and upgrade panel for less than this engine.

[@carguy1150]

Seems like a pretty cool engine and it's made in my home town that makes it even cooler

[@lawrencehector267]

Good job. Keep up the good work.

[@MontegaB]

I wouldn't mind a well-designed diesel in the air. As long as the electronics are kept to a minimum, which it sounds like is the case, they are ultra-reliable. Also pretty flexible on fuel sources in a pinch.

[@rogerjohnson6218]

sweet...but would love to see it start up and run..to here it../see it..?

[@loading...3197]

That thing is awesome

[@ThudFalls]

yes I would like a car version of this motor too, this will be a great long trip engine and a mountain climber!

[@superskullmaster]

ThudFalls so you want a $90,000 engine that’s designed to run over 50% power output for hours for a vehicle that needs full power for minutes a year? Man gtfo.

[@onewyatt1]

@@superskullmaster I personally use full power from any stops while driving most of my ground transportation and I do lots of stop and go driving. Towing trailers about half that time, was thinking this engine would be nice in a 1927 model T Ford, or Willis Jeep work vehicle. Betting I use more than the 10 to 20 horse power it takes a normal driver to maintain Hwy speed while I am loaded, thinking more like 25 to 35 HP with my situation at times. It is like I say, much to do about getting to speed for me though and with as much as 180 HP in unique compact engine, I think it could be a good fit.

[@propellerhead2000]

Give me a Detroit 4-53T!

[@realvanman1]

This seems to be a loop scavenged two stroke, which is very cool. Just like a 51 series GM Diesel (Detroit) from the '50's. The mechanically driven blower is not a supercharger but rather a scavenging blower as it alone cannot produce boost, since the engine is a two stroke (extra air just passes straight through). The supercharing comes from the turbo supercharger "turbo" as the restriction caused by the turbine gives the compressor something to "push" against, thereby increasing cylinder charge pressure. This is all just like a Detroit. I love how he resisted calling it a "Diesel" engine, which it most certainly is, but Compression Ignition is the most correct. Bet it would run just fine on diesel too. Too bad it needs glow plugs.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Detroit diesels weren't loop scavenged, they had exhaust valves.

[@realvanman]

@@PistonAvatarGuy This is true, for all series, 53, 71, 92, 110, and 149. But the 51 series is the exception. They only came in two or four cylinder versions, and were only made for a few years. They still had a cam, but only to operate the unit injectors. When you look under the rocker cover, there are no valves, just injectors.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@realvanman Interesting, thanks for the info.

[@BlueBaron3339]

This fella reminded me of Fred Willard, especially the part about the kids in back and having to write checks for operations while systems keep failing yet you keep flying....at reduced power. That's one weird Angel Flight, I tell ya.

[@jeffk1485]

"It's a compression-ignition engine that burns jet fuel." Or, as we've been calling them for over a hundred years, "a diesel".

[@jytheiowaguy1897]

Newer diesels have had to go to a high pressure fuel system to meet emissions, the fuel pums are really picky since they're internally lubricated by it. On the old mechanical pump diesels they would eat whatever you fed them like French fry grease

[@jytheiowaguy1897]

In a stol you could be on the lookout for accessible McDonalds restaurants lol

[@scenicdepictionsofchicagolife]

Your comment is retarded and a waste of energy

[@singleproppilot]

JY The Iowa Guy And that’s why a diesel in an airplane is a good idea. No emissions standards so you can run whatever type of fuel system works best, not what the government mandates.

[@Bartonovich52]

Most turbine engines are compression ignition engines that burn jet fuel. ;)

[@JasonSchoeman]

Beautiful beautiful engine.

[@Wild_Bill57]

As someone who owned a1986 Golf diesel, love the overall simplicity of the design, though the chargers add complexity, sounds great, but $90k kills it, in a bad way.

[@pilotavery]

Yeah but with 5000 hours tbo it's already going to cost less per hour than a rotax

[@Zalaniar]

The one time hearing "that's not an option" is a GOOD thing! Lol...This sounds like an awesome product and I hope they succeed in getting it certified as well as maybe getting the price down a bit, though that price doesn't sound terrible from my very limited knowledge of engines.

[@iiddrrii6051]

Congrats! Wishing them the best of luck. I think it's a small market unless they get into drones.

[@mytubehkjt]

One of these on a PA-24-180 would be amazing. Bring it on!

[@noambelder5850]

J T It will be a PA28-1080

[@michaelg.9791]

"Jet fuel." ...you lost me there. Diesel fuel, I'm IN !

[@markh7288]

Certified by the end of what year? We have been hearing this for quite some time now

[@montypython8978]

Wow! A 2 stroke supercharged diesel..You are so cutting 1940s tech! I hope you win the participation trophy!

[@ctn830]

Amazing!

[@fabianseewald7884]

the best type of engine ever developped, diesel rules!

[@SmittySmithsonite]

Would love to have this engine in a car! As a mechanic, I LOVE this engine!! Automotive reliability has become a 20th Century relic ...

[@lastdeadmouse7]

It's called a turbo diesel, and they're already out there lol.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Are you saying that modern cars are LESS reliable than older cars? I see modern cars go well over 200,000 miles without a single problem related to the engine, older cars were lucky to make it to 100,000 miles before getting junked!

[@grancito2]

@@lastdeadmouse7 No, they are all computer controlled shit, I have 2.

[@grancito2]

@@PistonAvatarGuy To get to 200,000 miles, you pay the cost of the vehicle in repairs to the electronic shit.

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

@@grancito2 That's what I'm saying, I've seen plenty of vehicles go well past 200,000 miles without needing ANY kind of repair related to the engine, "electronic shit" included.

[@chrisnedbalek2866]

Wow! I want one!!! Maybe two!!

[@GRW3]

How do they handle the Cetane Number variations. Jet fuel does not have a Cetane Number requirement.

[@flyhigh1768]

I can already imagine the amount of line guys this will confuse

[@Bartonovich52]

Yeah... I know. I mean... I don’t have trouble telling the difference between: *100/130/100LL Only* and *Jet-A/Jet-B/Diesel Only* But these _are_ line guys.

[@comeasyouare4545]

Oh! It's a two stroke diesel. Why didn't you say so. Have you tested it with #2 diesel?

[@dr2644]

Impressive, I hope you do well. In my humble opinion from a person who has worked on many engines.... the super charger nose extension where the pulley is mounted appears to be long and a possible point of fatigue???? Any thoughts???

[@waynep343]

ABSOLUTELY i was going to post that or call them. the snout needs to be cone shaped for best strength. unsupported that will be a fatigue nightmare. i would think that the blower drive housing might even be Forged instead of cast. it might be made into a 2 piece.. with a bolt on forged snout.. it could be done by any piston manufacturer easily.

[@saratogapilot6100]

$90k for all that stuff, including a cowling and the constant speed prop governor (and prop itself), really is a good deal. Hope they can keep the prices that low in the future. Good luck to them.

[@SooperToober]

Saratoga Pilot only 8,990 hahaha ...NOT

[@cavsh00ter]

That's $89000.+

[@savethedeveloper]

90k is double the price of a Lycoming+prop. They won't sell many at that price to the experimental market

[@saratogapilot6100]

@@savethedeveloper You left out the new cowling and engine mount. The last time I had an engine mount repaired, it was $10k just for the repair. A new Lycoming O-360 is $85,075.

[@savethedeveloper]

No one in the kit-plane market spends over 30k on a 180hp engine. We all buy knock-off clones (Titan, Superior).

[@copisetic1104]

It sounds like a two-stroke diesel

[@davidgaxiola4017]

Try weedeater turbo diesel!! Do you hear before ?=

[@davidgaxiola4017]

No!! Me either!.

[@matthewf1979]

Because it is.

[@jlo13800]

yes and it should be able to run high octane avgas, not everyone likes diesel!

[@jadefalcon001]

@@jlo13800 it runs on Jet-A. Putting high-octane gas in a diesel engine is a great way to damage it.

[@immortaljatt05]

This is the future

[@southronjr1570]

Nice to see a 2 stroke diesel come back to an engine market, incredibly efficient engine design but the EPA regulated them out of existence in the automotive market decades ago.

[@AndrewShackleton]

I'm not so sure two stroke diesels were ever in the automotive market. The original GM diesels were 4 stroke as is anything I've ever seen in pickups. The old Benz 300D is 4 stroke, and the original diesel Landcruiser too. Detroit Diesel two strokes were not great on fuel and ate oil like crazy, especially if you kept the oil topped up. I drove one for 5 years and they were completely inferior to 4 strokes. Narrow powerband, very loud, and you had to rev the piss out of them to go anywhere.

[@PC-vq5ud]

@@AndrewShackleton Saab had a two stroke diesel in the 60's that was sold in the US. I think it had 3 cylinders. East Germany had a car that was a 2 stoke. It was communist crap but there were thousands built and sold.

[@roytee3127]

@@PC-vq5ud I looked at buying a used 2-stroke Saab in the early 1970s. When a mechanic heard it was a two-stroke, he immediately advised against buying it. (Wasn't a diesel, I don't think.)

[@flybyairplane3528]

P C the E GERMAN CAR WAS THE ‘TRABANT’, The body was made of some plasticine firer, CANT RUST, , I saw 1 in a transportation. Museum , in SENZHEIM. DE, ON 9’/11/2001 Yes. Cheers from NJ

[@chipjumper]

Fully installed $89.9 isn’t bad for the the late model Cirrus, Mooney, or C182 owner. The comment on the UAV market is right on. Military price is probably $289.9

[@superskullmaster]

For $90,000 you might as well just get a turboprop engine from PBS Velka Bites.

[@greenman720]

I don’t know why they keep stressing to be certified I mean, Lycoming even sells uncertified engines if I’m not mistaken

[@NicholasStreet]

Is this a two stroke? If so, how is it lubricated? I’d love to hear it running and see a cut away engine.

[@kencohagen4967]

When are the bigger engines coming out?

[@mci102rv7]

I was so looking forward to this engine being on the market, but now that I hear price, I need to know more. I want to know how it compares to the CD-155 . . . power, critical altitude, weight, fuel specifics . . . which is already certified and $65k ($25k less) for a firewall forward engine/prop. Hopefully, the DeltaHawk is a whole lot better for 1/3 again more money.

[@noema]

CD-155 is half the weight, certified and tested in the field ... that's all you need to know.

[@kermauro527]

Easy maintenance 👍👍

[@mitseraffej5812]

Any good for a small jet boat?

[@wazza33racer]

Would be curious to see the internal workings of the mechanical fuel pump..........Jet A1 does not have much lubricity compared to diesel. F34 has a lubricant additive, but you wont see that at any civil airport, but it could be ordered.

[@pilotlangdon]

Not a good price for general aviation especially when you can overhaul a similar horsepower engine twice for the same price! Or am I missing something?

[@2Phast4Rocket]

I wonder if the company did market study of the potential buyers for this engine. Lycoming and Continental already have the engines in the HP range and at a lower price point. Also Lycoming is coming out with the FADEC for its boxer engine. In these days, these small engine designers need big financial backing if they want to create new engines in a static or shrinking GA market.

[@Dudeisthere]

@@2Phast4Rocket The question i always ask myself is why dont more manufacturers just take automotive engines and modify them for use in airplanes? Diamond has been doing this for a while now with their Austro engines, their ease of operation and fuel efficiency is remarkable and there are also some C172s flying around with VW TDI engines. These engines are already designed so you would only have to redesign certain features (oil supply for example) keeping development costs down. Spare parts are readily available as those engines exist in the thousands, many easily run for 10-15 years so reliability shouldnt be an issue either.

[@2Phast4Rocket]

@@Dudeisthere It is not the combustion technology because it is old tech compare the cars. It's the price point the market is willing to support. If DeltaHawk sells the engine for twice the IO540 from Lycoming then nobody in their right mind will buy it. That is my premise. The problem with these engine startups is the get their pricing down after amortizing the cost of engineering, especially in very small, and slowly shrinking general aviation market.

[@Dudeisthere]

@@2Phast4Rocket But thats what im sayiong. Why design a whole new engine from scratch if there are plenty of perfectly good, modern and efficient car engines out there that would only need little development to make them suitable for GA aircraft? Designing a whole new engine from scratch like these guys did with a relatively small market will obviously lead to insane costs, so i dont really see the point of it especially if youre using the same old technology thats around for 40 years now.

[@2Phast4Rocket]

@@Dudeisthere Honda have tried to design an aircraft engine based on the Honda automotive engine. They were ready to get it certified but sensible heads in the Honda's boardroom prevailed and Honda wisely abandoned the project. They didn't see a growth business in the aircraft engine. The only bright spot is the LSA rules where small and lightweight, but low performance airplanes are allowed and Rotax filled the powerplant void.

[@s3bk]

How does it compare to the German Junkers Jumo 205 from 1932?

[@joehancock8264]

Do you have engines above 180 HP?

[@PC-vq5ud]

I"ll echo comments below. This engine has been vaporware for decades. There is a video from Oskosh 07 that states everything that was said in this video. i remember that they were taking deposits at least 17, 18 years ago. HOW MANY HAS DELTAHAWK SHIPPED TO CUSTOMERS?

[@Bartonovich52]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJDLqo14js6GrNk From 2010. Description says they’ve been plodding along for _FOURTEEN YEARS_ developing the engine.

[@ZeeCaptainRon]

Certification status: DeltaHawk Engines expects certification in the first quarter of 2023. LOL still vaporware

[@ssranon]

Will this be scaled up to compete with IO-540's someday, and will they offer some form of FADEC?

[@PC-vq5ud]

This engine is designed to operate without electronics. KISS principal. Once it is running at temp and at operational rpm's it is all mechanical, compression ignition.

[@ZeeCaptainRon]

FADEC=Lots of electronics. That's the Full Authority part of FADEC

[@AviationJeremy]

Inverted V-4 SuperTurbo Diesel... hell, I’d take that in a truck too!

[@AndyMatrix]

For sale in 2024/25 . good job guys. Do a 300hp

[@Big.Ron1]

Cool! A 2 stroke jet "A" burning engine. Ole Rudolph Diesel would be proud. I hope all goes well. Any plans for more powerful engines? Maybe V-6 or V-8 engines down the road? I could see this in the Marine industry as well. A 400 hp in a airboat would be interesting.

[@martinnorbeck5961]

Safer on the ground than in the air at this time.

[@Bartonovich52]

Rudolph Diesel wanted them to run on vegetable oil.

[@captainron7904]

It’s the middle of 2021 has this thing been certified or even available to experimental types ?

[@ZeeCaptainRon]

Certification status: DeltaHawk Engines expects certification in the first quarter of 2023. LOL

[@gmcjetpilot]

Besides one year away from certification for 20 years they've lost the lead. Continental and Austro (Diamond aircraft) have had certified diesels for years. The logic to certify and first sell to experimental market sounds like they're using experimental home builders to pay $90k for their engine and installation to get flight test data.

[@danizweifler6061]

well....; 7 month's past by.......... but I do jump in the topic right now // I do strongly believe, you should listen more carefully what you get for the 90'000 dollars package (I'am using the word "package" by purpose !!! ) // everything else is no serious discussion !! // greetings

[@eugeneoreilly9356]

Didn't Continental buy the Morane(Renault)designed air-cooled flat four?It was around 5 liter capacity and very similar to both Continentals and Lycomings air-cooled gasoline designs.Never heard off it after?

[@the-LeoKnightus]

Kinda like a turbo diesel? Does it have spark plugs? That blower is almost invisable. Very pretty

[@ozziepilot2899]

It uses glow plugs like any diesel :)

[@lastdeadmouse7]

Kinda like? It IS a diesel. He even said "combustion ignition". It runs on jet a. It's a diesel. There were some mental gymnastics performed to avoid actually saying it.

[@flybyairplane3528]

Paul Scotchford there areNO SPARKPLUGS IN ANY DIESEL, but it BOED HAVE GLOW PLUGS for COLD STARTS. Cheers from NJ

[@ozziepilot2899]

@@flybyairplane3528 I said Glow Plugs if you read it .

[@soving]

I do believe the engine will in fact run on reduced power if the Turbo or blower fails...never seen an engine run well after being fod'ed by turbo / blower shrapnel.

[@martinnorbeck5961]

What happens when it is cold outside?

[@DoRC]

It's a little baby detroit diesel!

[@romandybala]

@sparky12x no its not. It isnt made of cast iron and it doesnt have any of the things a 4 stroke needs to run.

[@beagle7622]

Jet fuel is basically Kerosene, so it could probably run on all sorts of things except Avgas or “Gasoline” .

[@josesbox9555]

A Detroit diesel powered airplane. 😬 how cool!

[@craigrmeyer]

Auto/truck diesel as well?

[@cannon440]

It sounds great. I like the idea that everything is included, even install w/cowling. However I must be a poor person (not rich) $90,000.00 is a hell of a lot of money for a 180hp 201ci diesel engine. JMHO.

[@jlo13800]

A continental could be converted to a 2 stroke much cheaper and run avgas, not all of us like diesel!

[@SuperYellowsubmarin]

Certified in the expiremental ? Why don't you start selling it to the experimental market before certifying ?

[@PC-vq5ud]

Helps justifying the $90k price tag. There is an eight cylinder turbo diesel that is going for certification in the 300 to 400 HP range. I hear that the price for it will be about $150k.

[@spiro5327]

Twin forced induction might be an issue. A certain car maker had reliability issues with a similar set up.

[@waynep343]

yea but it worked great on detroit diesels.

[@lastdeadmouse7]

This is a diesel. It's not an issue.

[@AndrewShackleton]

The supercharger is only there for starting the engine but it's completely necessary. There is no other way to feed fresh air into the cylinders because the turbo isn't putting out any boost when the engine isn't running. Early Detroit Diesels only had a supercharger. Turbos were added later on to get more power out of the engine. Deltahawk is using the turbo to capture energy from the exhaust stream that would otherwise be lost, improving power and economy at the same time.

[@waynep343]

@@AndrewShackleton i completely understand how it works. but diesels have crank pulses that will get transferred to the belt and break that supercharger snout right off over time. they might be able to use one of those fluid dampers on both ends of the crank.

[@AndrewShackleton]

@@waynep343 I agree. Beefing it up wouldn't hurt. But I am also thinking it isn't under a lot of load. No toothed drive belt for starters and it will essentially freewheel once boost comes on.

[@Alex-us2vw]

Does it just run on Jet A? Or can it use diesel too?

[@lastdeadmouse7]

Of course it can... It's just a diesel engine. I don't know why he refuses to admit it

[@Alex-us2vw]

lastdeadmouse7 its an aviation engine so it diesel would need to be an approved fuel, otherwise would need an STC. The manufacturer only mentioned Jet A, unlike Continental who list both fuels.

[@roytee3127]

Jet A is available at airports throughout the world. It's easy to get. You'd have to cart your own diesel fuel to the airport - and it would need to be approved or STO'ed as Alex 1911 says.

[@Alex-us2vw]

Roy Tee it wouldn’t need an STC if it’s an approved fuel like on other Jet A burning diesels like the Continental CD series of engines. Operating on diesel has some huge benefits when fuelling at home base. Can buy tax exempt diesel for a fraction of the cost of JET-A or AVgas, like the diesel used in farm/construction equipment or marine applications. All you need is a pick up truck with a fuel transfer tank and can bring 100s of gallons right up to your hanger or tie down. I guess for people with cars it would be a little more challenging though, using a ferry tank bladder or even worse jerry cans 😂

[@rigilchrist]

Have they elimated the gearbox? All other diesels aero engines have a g/box, which have been problematical.

[@buckstarchaser2376]

It looks like the prop and flywheel are bolted directly to the crankshaft on their display model and airplane in the video. Unless there is a planetary system in the engine block, I'd think it's directly driven. It's kind of hard to tell many specifics with so much of his effort trying to avoid saying "it's a 2-stroke diesel" and describing all the details of one instead. It's not a trust-invoking behavior, and in the mix, I don't recall him saying why burning jet fuel is even better.

[@PC-vq5ud]

Bob, it is direct drive. Part of it's advantage is that it is powered on each stroke of the engine. Less vibration and smoother energy delivery. Makes for easier prop design.

[@PC-vq5ud]

@@buckstarchaser2376 Jet A, kerosene have higher energy density than gas, and as stated elsewhere, you can grow diesel fuel. Diamond DA-42 has twin 140 HP diesel engines that burn 11 gallons an hour at cruise total. Avgas twins burn that much on each side. That is the diesels main attraction. Europe loves diesel aviation engines because avgas is over $10 per gallon there because of their regulations and taxes. Many parts of the world currently have Zero availability of avgas.

[@buckstarchaser2376]

@@PC-vq5ud That was a good explanation. Thank you.

[@justins.1283]

I'm waiting on someone to get an aircraft engine that will run on automotive regular gasoline.

[@cavsh00ter]

Would it go in a 177 Cardinal????? 🤔 Lots of money but I don't think I will be getting another plane in this lifetime

[@theicediamond7]

nice

[@zyxyuv1650]

But does it have VTEC?

[@alanpierce2269]

its a 2 stroke, so no camshaft, just ports !!!

[@garyalexander2480]

I want this in a little car ❤

And what about its weight ?

[@harrikontturi]

Their website say approximately 340 lbs or 154 kg. Light-ish compared to Austro AE300 which is around 410 lbs or 186kg. Both dry weights.

[@AustNRail]

31 May 2021 still no certification

[@r.d.riddle2068]

An inverted Detroit Diesel?

[@falcon127]

Is it CERTIFIED YET? He said it would be CERTIFIED by the end of 2019.

[@Wingnut353]

They said it would be certified over 15 years go...

[@lomasck]

I always believed a 2 Stroke like the 2 stroke Diesel would be the best idea.Will they be used in Cars one day? .Direct injection like Diesel but how do they get it to combust smoothly like diesel .I wonder how must boost pressure it can take.

[@ZeeCaptainRon]

Not likely to see in automotive or trucks, too difficult to control emissions. Current tech high pressure direct injection computer controlled is currently the only tech that makes emissions standard. Not even sure why they are bothering with this very old school diesel system. i could see them finally getting certified and the next year the EPA shuts them down.

[@brianbob7514]

No cam shaft?

[@dragthatsht]

It's a two stroke diesel.

[@MiG21aholic]

A loop scavenged 2 stroke to be a bit more precise

[@brianbob7514]

Figured as much, what a strange engine.

[@brianb5594]

I hope these guys succeed. There needs to be an alternative to Lycoming and Continental. Something that could reliably make it to TBO without top overhauls, valve problems, and cracked cases. I know I will open the floodgates but it has always amazed me how an engine that turns 2700 RPM max can’t reliably run for 2000 hours without wrenching it. I know it’s running at max power most of it’s life, and I have heard all the comparisons to auto engines that live at a fraction of max power most of their life, but still seems odd. If these guys could get their pricing in range of current technology, I think they could be successful, but at $89K, they are priced out of the market.

[@saratogapilot6100]

It's not just the engine, it's a complete kit with custom cowling, new engine mount and so forth. I think it's for those reasons that they cannot move straight to an STC, and they have to go the experimental route first.

[@pilotavery]

Because the engines were certified in 1960 and continental and Lycoming don't want to spend a lot of money certifying a new engine. They would rather people just dump money on their old engines. Even today, the engines are the same design as the original sand casted engines, and they were designed to be casted by sand

[@SuperYellowsubmarin]

So end of 2019 has passed and I haven't seen any announcement of certification. These guys need to target and achieve reasonable deadlines. It has been posponed for several years now. I admire the courage, but as a customer how could you possibly trust them ?!

[@Wingnut353]

*cough* a decade, you'd have to be stupid to invest in them now, also they are vastly overpriced... its unfortunate there is nobody taking this type of thing seriously in the industry.

[@SuperYellowsubmarin]

@@Wingnut353 and then they will never be profitable if they ever make it to the market, with all that money spent on development.

[@ZeeCaptainRon]

Certification status: DeltaHawk Engines expects certification in the first quarter of 2023.

[@coryt490]

No valves?

[@peterbrown6224]

They are an optional extra.

[@Erik-rp1hi]

A 2 stroke? That is priced very competitive.

[@julianodamasceno]

🇧🇷👍

[@peterxyz3541]

Very interested but what’s the price? $89,900……..? That’s show price.

[@endwood]

The biggest downside of Diesel engines is fuel availability at country dromes. A few manufacturers have tried this & failed! I wish them well but doubt it will take over the market.

[@pentagate1]

Boggles the mind. Time, effort, lots of thinking go into a small package of innovation yet a KZbin surfer is compelled to cast, I assume expert, doubt. I'd say buy one and help improve the world for us.

[@endwood]

@@pentagate1You simply don't get it do ya? These designs are not new! If it was that good the market would be flooded with such engines a long time ago! Resale value is a huge issue when it comes to selling any plane that has an odd-ball engine up front! Take a look at the Vans A/C, anytime you see an odd engine in them (which is rare) for sale they can't give them away, people want 'known' useable perf where they can get fuel & parts on any street corner! As if I would buy one, what drugs are you on there?:-)

[@Wingnut353]

@@endwood You seem to underestimate how ingrained and opinionated about things flyers can be... the only way a diesel is gonna work in the market is to be provably more reliable, and cost competitive with all the diesel advantages too like efficiency, and to break into the market slowly without failures. The fact is that it is superior... but not superior enough. Also it would be trivial for airports to offer diesel/JP-1.... there is really no reason not to run plain old diesel if you rent' going high altitude, and pay less than half half the price of avgas.

[@GeorgeSemel]

Not a bad price for a fully installed unit. Expensive, yeah then again everything that flies is expensive for what it is! It's a small market of the economics of scale that reflects that.

[@MollysPa]

Two-stroke?

[@roop298]

is 'jet fuel' the aircraft equivalent of road diesel?

[@davidvicari5139]

Yes. Part of the idea is, the fueling infrastructure is in place, even at relatively small airports. Jet A is generally half a buck cheaper than 100Ll

[@danizweifler6061]

@@davidvicari5139 no sir........ ; jet fuel configuration (specs) is different from "road diesel"........

[@SooperToober]

Hahaha - FIRST RULE OF INTEGRITY- state your price CLEARLY!!! Then let the customer decide if he can afford it or he “see’s value”. Geez don’t glide over your price mate - the monetary exchange is why you’re selling it right?!! And if I can afford it I WILL darn sure ask more q’s. So be confident about ur price mate! Great engine!

[@Zalaniar]

He very clearly said, it's 89.9, including installation, cooling system, cowling, and a constant speed prop. And then, he re-emphasized the 89.9 number. Sounds pretty clear to me.

[@SooperToober]

@@Zalaniar I agree he did say 89.9 twice. But...$89 Thousand 9 Hundred would have been brilliantly authentic! It's still a swanky deal for HP/weight ratio compared to the Cont/Lyc alternatives. My dry humor isn't coming through I guess. I like what he's doing!

[@flightTime123]

Did I hear that correctly? $90k for that?

[@experimental_av]

yeah he was kinda hiding it didn't he 89-9, $8,990? nope $89,900.

[@saratogapilot6100]

So what? That's what a Lycoming aircraft engine costs, albeit six-cylinder gasoline and 540 cu ins (derated to 300 HP). But, you get a lot of additional goodies, including engine mount (worth about $10k), prop (worth about $8k) and prop governor (worth about $6k) plus an engine monitoring system (worth about $2k), with installation labor and new cowlings (worth about $16k) all for the price of the engine alone. That's a good deal.

[@ssranon]

@@saratogapilot6100 and they even paint the spinner to match your plane :)

[@GriffDawg94]

Worth it if it reaches TBO somewhat trouble free

[@flybyairplane3528]

Chet Carson there are no GEARBOX, it is DIRECT DRIVE, CHEERS FROM NJ

[@patrickbrabenec5930]

👍😀

[@stefanmargraf7878]

Could be interesting to make a rotary engine with 2 stroke diesel....

[@dodgeplow]

"Simple, few parts" - it's got a turbocharger, a supercharger, a preheater, "a lot of redundancies", glow plugs, fuel injection...

[@kbnguy]

Let's not forget to mention " Rigorous Testing Using Advanced Technology" on the vid across your screen! (saying so isn't enough...) This infomercial brought to you by...

[@briantii]

Heh, I was thinking the same thing. With that being said it has no cams, valves, or mags which all tend to be common failure points on AvGas engines... so who knows. Like everything else I’ll believe it when I see it. The price seems high though. A Continental IO360ES for a Cirrus SR20 costs less and is proven.

[@destro513]

I love it. Shame they are trying to get cert which makes it a 100k. I love everything about this engine cept the price. Shame they wont sell many at that money

[@nzsaltflatsracer8054]

& all for the low introductory price of only $89,999.99 USD. Sound familiar??