[Deltarune] Will Theory and The Depths | Unraveling the Dark World

In this video, I go over a massive theory that I've wanted to share with the Deltarune community for a long time.
Credit to this theory goes to Brix, Agy, Psychopomp413, and the many others on Andrew Cunningham's server that enable my insanity: / discord
'Submarine Castle Town Theory' : • [Deltarune] - The Dept...
Timestamps:
00:00 Spoiler Warning
00:10 What is the Dark World?
03:16 King of Spades Thought Experiment
05:07 Last Thursday
06:44 Ripping Apart the DW Origin Consensus
07:58 How is the Dark World Made?
09:46 What is Determination?
11:28 Understanding Balance of Light/Dark
12:55 The Depths of Deltarune
17:16 The Lost Girl
20:34 Analyzing the Closet Dark World
28:31 The Roaring

[@WeaselWeaselW]

I just realized something major: Toby Fox’s first tweet is "The edge of the shadow, where reality and dream meet." Which is like really fucking big. It means that my theory about determination and how the Dark World works has an even bigger chance of being right. Also, if you're looking for more Deltarune content from creators that aren't me, I highly suggest this video right here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mITckph_itetpLM The title might not seem too appealing, but it's an in-depth analysis of all the meta shit in Deltarune Chapter 1, and it's also *hilarious.* So please go give it a watch!

[@CG09_TMP]

"AT "SHADOW'S EDGE, " SHATTER THE TWILIGHT REVERIE."

[@develrandomdankmemes7586]

@@CG09_TMP OH MY GOD

[@develrandomdankmemes7586]

thats the old song coming from the sea WTF

[@CG09_TMP]

@@develrandomdankmemes7586 YES!! FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE GETS IT!!!!!!

[@develrandomdankmemes7586]

@@CG09_TMP even though im obsessed with both homestuck and undertale/deltarune i somehow didnt know about all the penumbral phantasm stuff before so your comment just kickstarted a huge series of realizations for me O_O

[@philguer4802]

I skipped an heartbeat when I realised the implication of December being lost into the Abyss... Noelle would have a pretty good motivation to unleash the Roaring to free her.

[@loganisanerd5566]

I think you're right. The difference with the Weird Route might be hastening Noelle along to do this, or giving her the power to do so. If that's the case, cracking the world deep enough to try and reach Dess might end up being some scheme by a certain shady Man, Doctor Gaster, to be released instead, or in addition.

[@agentf5798]

Too bad, we already know Kris is who is trying to do it

[@mrluthfians01]

AN

[@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw]

Oh God. OH GOD, HE MIGHT JUST BE RIGHT!

[@badratindiedev8328]

I thought about it and I believe it makes sense dude, But guess how Noelle will know that Dess is there? Simple, Gaster will tell her, and then she's going to be the angel from the angel's heaven.

[@Lagw1020]

A bit of a small theory here. I don't think Rouxls "turned to stone earlier". I think Kris just took longer to get to point B. Even tho Kris took a shortcut after freezing Berdly, Susie and Ralsei were already waiting at the enterance of the Palace, when usually, Kris takes the longer route and they still manage to beat Susie and Ralsei to the ball game area, which is still a bit away from the Palace.

[@supercyclone8342]

That makes sense if you think about it like the no mercy route in Undertale but sped up for the sake of gameplay. You took extra time to systematically freeze everyone in town so it makes sense that Susie and Ralsai would get to the castle first after a casual stroll.

[@Gnidel]

I don't think it's about time, but theme. During normal route, he turned into stone once he stopped representing "piracy". During Snowgrave he had no reason to be a pirate because Kris skipped him. With pirate ship and hat, he could never turn into stone.

[@Lagw1020]

@@Gnidel I like this, but I do think its a time thing still, just because of the other reasons I mentioned.

[@nachosanchez3623]

Determination is not "Dreams" in Deltarune. Darkness and Darkners are "Dreams". Remember the legend. All darkners are linked to dreams and creativity. But Determination exists outside of the Dark Worlds: it's probably the "same thing" it ever was: The power to Determine Fate, in this case, the power to create Fiction. Fiction doesn't only require Dreams: it also needs Hopes (the real world work we put at day, not just the magical inspiration we dream in the night). This is a story of Light and Dark. This is a story of Hope and Dreams.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

The power to create fiction and the power with all this dream stuff (tired) is not mutually exclusive. But while with fiction, everything is deliberate, in dreams, everything is closer to being abstract, and that's the difference I want to make here.

[@nachosanchez3623]

@@WeaselWeaselW I agree but my point is that Dreams/Darkness/Inspiration/Fiction are just one half of the power of Determination to Determine Fate but Hopes/Light/Work/Reality are the other half of It, because darkners/Dreams/Inspiration/fictions cannot realize themselves and require Lightners/Hopes/Labour/Reality for that (thus, "the purpose of Darkners is to serve Lightners" some could argue) and all of this seems to be the 2 sides of Determination. Toby Fox has come up with a really fucking impressive metaphysics for this one tbh Edit: in Deltarune there is no difference between "dreams" and "fiction" because everything is deliberate and at the same time cannot be "chosen". Think of the NEO body: It was the dream of a lightner and that's what gave It so much power. But It was not an abstract dream, It was an Inspiration that enamoured the soul of a lightner, (and that lightner would be the only Hope of the creation to realize itself properly).

[@colororb4105]

22:00 I just realized it's not only the trophies that moved to Kris's bed. The whole room is mirrored so that Kris is now sleeping in Asriel's bed. You can tell by the picture frame on the table, the layout of the trophies, and most importantly the stripes on the bedsheets. Very interesting that NONE of Kris's stuff is in their dark world room

[@justice8718]

Ralsei treats Kris like an older brother.

[@tarvoc746]

Last Thursdayism is actually potentially more complex than you give it credit for. You can either go the easy way and say that the world was created last Thursday with only the illusion of a backstory, and then false memories were implanted in its inhabitants, which seems to be the way you're going. But if you assume a reasonably powerful creator, you could also say that the world was created last Thursday _along with its entire history,_ i. e. before the world was created, its history didn't happen, but after the world was created, its entire past also came into _real_ and not just illusionary existence _retroactively._ It had happened retroactively, so to speak (I guess you'd have to invent a new grammatical tense for that). Given that we know that time travel was a thing in Undertale, and might easily be a thing in Deltarune as well, retroactive creation doesn't seem that far off imo.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

I honestly hope that's the case. Unfortunately (or fortunately) with these kinds of things, there's no real way to know for sure if its one or the other unless Toby Fox or Gaster show up and tell us the truth.

[@sarrakitty]

@@WeaselWeaselW Time shenanigans of some sort seem like they would be required for any darkner to have knowledge from a dark world that hadn't been created yet, before it's creation.

[@dacianbuzlea]

Honestly, the fact that the (kind of) confirmed number of chapters is "7" confirms it for my headcanon. That's right. One. For. Each. Day.

[@tarvoc746]

@@dacianbuzlea ...That's just it being one in-universe week until Asriel returns. It doesn't mean the world was literally created on the first day. Also it's a difference whether you say Last Thursdayism explains the Dark Worlds, or _whether it also applies to the Light World._ (Although I somewhat suspect that there will be a twist along the lines of "The Light World is also something like a Dark World for the player.")

[@Izunundara]

​@dacianbuzlea Chapter 7 being titled "Next Thursday" would crack me up good

[@waluigiisthebest2802]

One problem with the theory of “Last Thursdayism” is that Noelle mentions that she got weird spam emails, that said things that sound like they are from Spamton like “hochi mamas can get big too”. But one day, she got a bunch of random letters and numbers that she could put in cat petterz 2, which created a blue circle as a pet, which duplicated itself until the game crashed. In Spamton’s QnA, Spamton mentioned how he gave Noelle a “Little blue gift”, because she was the only one who read his emails. Spam emails are typically an advertisement or scam that a person makes, then uses a bot to send them out to as many people as possible. But these messages are more personal. Calling Noelle by a nickname, and creating a mod for a game she likes. Which doesn’t make that much sense unless Spamton himself sent the message.

[@Izunundara]

So you mean that the problem with the theory, all about retroactively creating evidence for its existence, can't retroactively create evidence for its existence? 🤔 The first thing you need to remember with anything affecting time is that normal chronology doesn't apply, and self referential paradoxes are the butter and bread of this stuff: 3: Spamton Exists, ergo he can send the Email 1: Spamton sends the Email to Noelle, interacting with the Light World 2: The Light World (or primary timeline/reality) interaction causes reality to be rewritten to make causal and narrativistic sense, meaning you PROCEED to step 3:

[@waluigiisthebest2802]

@@Izunundara This implies dark worlds are capable of rewriting reality in light worlds, not just dark worlds. Which, while not impossible, is a bit of a stretch given dark worlds and light worlds play by different rules. It also makes things a lot more confusing.

[@DogDogGodFog]

It's possible that Spamton as well as other Darkners can make memories even when inanimate.

[@DogDogGodFog]

As in, Spamton could make memories even back when he was just a bot. That egg code, it was probably input by the bot's creator, but Spamton remembers it being his own idea.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

My theory is Gaster created the Dark Worlds as an experiment and ""fell into his creation"". And now he is experimenting with the characters in Deltarune, much in the way a ROM hack/modder would have done nearly 10 years ago. Taking the normally happy world and turning it into a creepypasta styled edge-fest. The only real variable Gaster has not fully accounted for, is the player and their actions in said worlds.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

While I agree with the notion of Gaster "ROM hacking" the Dark Worlds, I think it goes beyond turning them into an edgefest. It's also clear that he opposes the Knight, because if you don't continue after a game over screen, you get the following text: THEN THE WORLD WAS COVERED IN DARKNESS.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

@@WeaselWeaselW Gaster has no known motivations whatsoever. Stating a fact isn't evidence for having good intentions.

[@SkeletonSlacker]

@@WeaselWeaselW I mean... Entry 17 is all about darkness, and it is widely theorised to be gasters note it all makes sense now!!!!

[@MysteryKar]

@@TheSkyGuy77 just because he may oppose the knight doesnt mean hes good, just that hes against the knight (though i agree that gaster is merely stating a fact and not showing some kind of motivation)

[@TheSkyGuy77]

@@MysteryKar That's what I was saying. We don't know his motivations. Yet, he's clearly part of the narrative and seems to want to help us fight the knight. We don't know why yet.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Gaster fell into the depths, realized his world was a game for beings beyond his reality, and chose to pull us from our Undertale adventure into Deltarune as a bit of an experiment. And to get us to either help resurrect him, or to "save the world" from the collapse of light and dark into an eternal grey night.

[@unreactivecontent]

I wonder what would happen if a dark world is created in a super-advanced lab, like a NASA testing zone or something. The darkners would likely have a history of research and discovery. They would already understand a lot of things about the nature of their world, and that means, it's likely their number one priority would be to keep Kris away from the fountain. So as to prevent the end of their world. If you think about it, the fact they'd understand their world would mean that the mere fact they are conscious in the present moment would let them know a lightner is in their world, or just about to enter. It's crazy, really. Maybe they'd even be so advanced that they'd have created an alternative exit method. Like, a machine that allows the lightner's soul to cast a light that pierces the darkness of their world, opening a temporary rift to pass through without sealing the fountain. Maybe we'll see something like this, thanks to a brilliant scientist. Or maybe someone will take this idea and make a comic. If so, let me know, alright? I wanna read that.

[@bearturtle6058]

That alternative exit method is already in Castle Town/Ralsei's Fountain starting from Chapter 2. That being the spotlight you do the transformation rolling drop in from the closet. Or levitate out of. It's the only one with this unique property. Also seems it doesn't need Kris to be present for any lighteners to enter and leave. That's kinda important. Strange that it has never been pointed out by the community loremasters.

[@Inf_Sto]

I’ve been saying gaster never fell into the core, but into a place of pure darkness. Finally someone gets it!!

[@AlphaPizzadog]

i think that darkners, while sentient beings, are being pushed towards following narratives which are shaped by the items and people in their corresponding light world locations. dorked made a theory talking about queen being a universal mother, so shes a strict helicopter mom to noelle, while being completely dismissive to berdly. i think perhaps this is the hidden truth that the secret bosses have learned which drove them mad, and it may actually shed some light on kris's situation too. (basically, the player is to lightners, what lightners are to darkners)

[@WeaselWeaselW]

I'm really interested in finding out what Darkners actually are, but my current hypothesis is that there are different tiers of sentience for darkners, depending on how important they are.

[@buttermilkmarsupial7002]

Thats not the only option, the history of the physical objects could count as the history of the darkeners, for example, jevils "locking out" was him being taken out of the deck, (as jokers arent used in card games typically) and hidden under the cabinet

[@lulnara5128]

Yeah i like this one, would also explain how lighthers have “abandoned” Spade King, the kids simply stopped playing in that classroom

[@tysondennis1016]

Here's my theory: Dess' disappearance caused everything to fall apart. It led to Mayor Holiday becoming stricter, Asgore being fired and divorced, Noelle becoming more timid and freezing up at her sister's name, Rudy falling ill, and it's spiraling outwards to affect all of Hometown. For Chapter 3, I'm thinking that Mike will have the gimmick of being able to control time, but only for things native to his Dark World. So, he can't Pause to ZA WARUDO Kris, Susie, Ralsei, Toriel, or Undyne, but he can use Pause to stop his attacks in place. For Chapter 4, as it takes place on Sunday, I'm sure it will be in the church. The villain will be the Bishop, who leads a cult that worships the Titans out of fear. For future chapters, I'm sure the bunker will have significance, possibly as the final Dark World. Also, here's the scenarios I see for possible Dark Worlds: -Festival: A town festival Dark World will result in a festival-themed Dark World, perhaps with a massive circus. Jevil would be at home there. -Pizzaria: ICE-E's Peeza as a Dark World could become a survival horror, where you have to avoid ICE-E, who is real and eats kids. And whenever he says "GIASFELFEHBREHBER" his eyes roll into the back of his head and he froths at the mouth. -Flower Shop: Flower King becoming a Dark World would result in it turning into a massive forest, albeit with towering flowers instead of trees. -Holiday Manor: A Dark World there could be a dark and gloomy manor on top of a frozen mountain. Perhaps it will result in Noelle and her mother mending their bond. For future Weird Routes, I feel like not all of them will be significantly darker than the Normal Routes of their respective chapters. There's a reason why Chapter 2's is called that. I'm thinking that there could be one that's a purely comedic version of an otherwise-serious chapter, that there might be one that looks like a shortcut, but is far longer than the normal route, possibly to troll speedrunners, and that we could get a chapter with no Weird Route, just so Toby can trick us into going on a wild goose chase for an ultimately-nonexistent ending to a chapter. After all, the Weird Route of Chapter 2 felt more like a creepypasta or urban legend, seeing that it was much more out of the way than the Genocide Route, so much so that it was only found via a stroke of luck.

[@sahilhossian8212]

Hmm yes neat comment @tysondennis1016

[@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw]

I hope at some point we get to visit the Abyss as described in this video. I like how you described these. There will be a lightworld festival, and there will (probably) be a Church Darkworld, due to Sundays and Kris’ connection to Christianity. I also hope we get a Paladin/cleric character in the church chapter.

[@nicestoriesnottherealstori3006]

Oh yeah, Everyman is unaffected by the fountains and can appear as a duck, in a pop-up, in a person box in that one queen attempt. And in graffiti in the light world.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

Everyman is... interesting. If I'm going to be honest, I'm not quite sure what it's supposed to mean. Everyman also appears in the alleyway. Maybe he's just a creepypasta that shows up in the Dark World as an Easter egg, but... I'm not quite sure. I think Everyman is kinda like Gaster in that he's showing up everywhere, creeping up from the darkness. Strange.

[@nicestoriesnottherealstori3006]

@@WeaselWeaselW But I don't think he is a creepypasta. I mean he appears in Undertale as well.

[@timrosswood4259]

@@nicestoriesnottherealstori3006 i don't think that was supposed to be taken literally

[@Your_little_friend4945]

@@WeaselWeaselW Maybe Everyman also fell into the depths, but at the same time he can partially get out, which is why he was seen in Deltarune and we can fight him in Undertale

[@WeaselWeaselW]

@@Your_little_friend4945 My head hurts even more.

[@oswaldliner]

I am so happy that someone is delving further into the connection between The Depths and the Ocean. The original sprite used for the depths that you had shown in the video actually *is* the ocean. If you take that sprite and flip it upside down and run it through reverse image search, you will see what I mean. This connection is 100% intentional by Toby Fox, as the ocean is also mentioned several times, including the soundbyte that plays when you first enter the dark world in Chapter 1, "ocean.ogg"

[@CG09_TMP]

there's also a leaked version of Penumbra Phantasm with ocean sounds at the start (that song is very likely to be used in DELTARUNE, given the way Toby Fox talks about it)

[@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw]

Doesn’t it kinda look like Kris has drowned or asphyxiated, like Blue Baby from TBoI? Or the Drowned from Minecraft? I think you’re onto something. Personally I think that the Abyss will be a twisted reflection of the Lightworld, with dead corpses instead of its regular inhabitants. And of course, Gaster, Dess, and our Made Goner all exist there. Because why not have Gaster and Dess in the lore?

[@Kiwolko]

i am so glad KZbin is recommending me videos from small creators

[@rezraki5419]

I like the Theory. Takes views that I've not seen before. And its nice to see a Theory that doesn't just hyperfocus on how "Ralsei might betray you".

[@WeaselWeaselW]

Honestly I don't think that will happen

[@rezraki5419]

Same. I feel like it'll entirely miss the point of Ralsei if hes just. Evil. But I see so many theorists focus on "you'll eventually fight Ralsei."

[@WeaselWeaselW]

Ralsei being evil just for the sake of having some super dark plot twist would be so mind-numbing stupid. Just... no. Everything suspicious about Ralsei really just sparks curiosity, and not once was I made to think that Ralsei was secretly evil, or some 'titan spy' as people claim that secretly wants to cause the Roaring. Just, no. It's a bastardization of everything Toby has created about Ralsei.

[@rezraki5419]

Honestly. I agree.

[@timrosswood4259]

It's more likely for Kris to betray Ralsei than the other way around.

[@AlphaPizzadog]

4:54 to be fair, the events of homestuck are pretty much all one big coincidence, like it says that practically everything within homestuck gets repeated somewhere in paradox space bc there's a limit to how much you can fit inside one universe frog

[@noravanguard3993]

5:40 Thank you. I think your the first person to bring this concept up in a deltarune theory video. I always thought of it like how when you start a game of Dwarf Fortress. The game will automatically create a world with a history. You when setting up the world can adjust the parameters like how long of a history you want generated and stuf like that. But even tho I knew of Last Thursdayism. But the term never came to mind when I thought about deltarune lol.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

To be honest, the concept of last thursdayism being something in Deltarune has been floating around for a while, I think I was one of the first ones to actually give it a name though because the name wasn't really used on ACDS until I introduced it (ACDS being Andrew Cunningham’s Discord Server).

[@_chairberry]

the king of spades thought experiment made me rethink about what ralsei is supposed to be "inspired" by. what if ralsei is actually based off of the sweater kris is wearing? i mean if you think about it, kris is never seen without the sweater in the light world, and if they created the fountains while wearing it, that would mean ralsei could practically fit into the narrative of any dark world they create, because the object he's based on was "present" during its creation. this could be why despite being in a different dark world, ralsei never turns into stone, because he technically already "fits" the narrative. it would also explain why ralsei resembles asriel, perhaps asriel gave that sweater to kris and kris has been wearing it as a memento of their brother. (also noting how the game describes him as a fluffy boy. like a fluffy wool sweater??)

[@sarrakitty]

I agree with the theory that there is some degree of Last Thursdayism going on in the nature of how dark worlds and the darkners that inhabit them come to be. An interesting comparison might be made to Homestuck actually, since Toby made music for it. The way the Medium in which Sburb takes place and all the kid's planets does something similar. Once the session is started, the history of Prospit, Derse, and every player's own world is created retroactively as if it had always existed, and the inhabitants and theme of a player's own world reflect them in some way, either directly in a way that represents their personality or inversely, challenging them to grow into their role and take on whatever quests they must in order for them to beat the game. Not to get too heavy on theories that connect Homestuck and Deltarune, though I'm sure that's fodder for plenty of wacky fanfiction, they are not literally related in canon. I just think it's interesting since Toby was involved in that too and his game seems to be shaping up to explore some similar concepts.

[@idioticlight]

Epic rap battles of History Skaia Vs A dark fountain BEGIN

[@tysondennis1016]

My theory on why Rouxls Kaard lasted longer than Lancer is because he's a rules card, which is meant to be read, and by stealing the mecha and putting on an eyepatch and pirate hat, he was able to stave off the petrification by becoming a digital pirate. For Snowgrave, it could be that he got petrified from the Dark Fountain reacting to the intruder (Noelle) killing its inhabitants, and as Noelle is a Lightener, she can't be petrified.

[@Living_In_Paradise]

"Center of everything" Night in the woods moment

[@CalvinNoire]

Night in the woods reference????

[@WeaselWeaselW]

N i g h t m a r e E y e s

[@kataraluver]

to add on to the “last thursday” idea, deltarune starts on a thursday. in chp2, alphys says theres no school tomorrow, so we can infer its a friday and that the day before, chp1, was a thursday. so interesting tbh

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Hm, how very interesting, i think you covered this very well and you bring up some valid points, but we’ll see how things turns out. Also, I have had a thought, what would happen if a Dark Fountain happened within Mt. Ebott?

[@ITSSNUPPY]

Well put together theory! I think you provide alot of evidence to support it and I can't wait for chapter 3 even more now! Also I loved your background music choice :D

[@AlphaPizzadog]

DARK. DARKER. YET DARKER. I think the roaring will happen either when 3 dark fountains exist, or when 3 dark worlds collide.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

what

[@AlphaPizzadog]

@@WeaselWeaselW referencing entry 17 from undertale, im just guessing tho bc its one of the only things we know about gaster

[@AFunkyPillow]

Honestly Rouxls Kaard probably only turns fully to stone because he didn't match the internet theme in the snowgrave route, instead opting for a butler, but a pirate in the neutral route makes perfect sense.

[@justice8718]

I think Lancer doesn't match the Dark World because he is meant to be embraced by it. We can see that Lancer created Shovelware in there by the mere tips of his presence, but since he doesn't see himself as the Prince of the Dark, he cannot fit into the world. This is further proven by how Queen and the Dark World itself immediately embrace Lancer and give him very special treatments. The stoned Lancer is given more respect and dignity over Ralsei.

[@MegaLpso]

You just made me realize something when talking about the goner maker and how it looks like its in a dark fountain. What if the goner we make IS the knight.

[@Mik3l24]

I have a bit of a problem with "Dark world's history only retroactively appeared, when that world was created", and the counter-evidence is that Noelle already "talked" to Spamton via email, as she wrote in her blog. Well, he probably didn't have a visual form yet, but his character has definitely already existed in some form. Otherwise... Certainly an interesting idea for what the Castle Town is. And thanks for bringing up the question of what "the balance between light and dark is", though I feel you could have been a bit more explicit how what you're bringing up answers that question. I mean, the feeling of piecing things together along with the video is cool, but a summary of the conclusions would have been nice.

[@Mik3l24]

@Brain Worm Would a spam bot be run out of a public library PC though? I guess he could be a virus or something... but those are represented by Virovirokuns... Though... Addisons still do exist in the dark world despite the lack of an internet connection, where advertisements usually need to be fetched from a remote server... Spamton probably just follows the same ""logic"" that Addisons go by. But I'd still argue that this "spam bot" that Spamton used to be still does have some character.

[@wildbill7942]

@Brain Worm An e-mail spambot probably isn't going to send you a special modded Petz2 pet as thanks for reading their e-mail, though. Spamton's "WORLD'S FIRST [Charity]" gift is *far* too personalized for even contemporary AI/predictive generators to create. Knowing what Noelle likes to do in her free time and learning how to mod an old video game would absolutely necessitate an actual intelligence behind it, and one that could be so swayed by their emotions as to make a personalized gift as thanks for something as small as opening an e-mail.

[@jahmocha9542]

I don't think that code was intended to be a mod. it think it was random junk that a spam email bot spewed out, that Noelle just happened to think looked like it could be used to hex-edit her game. Hence why, after she does this, the results are.... very very weird. Because it's random code. She could've put anything in there and get an equally buggy result. Also, I don't think the spam mail Noelle replied to was literally spamton, it's more accurate to say that Spamton, the Darkner, was based upon the spam that Noelle got. Like, the only reason spamton "remembers" her is because the dark fountain retroactively gave him memories corresponding to his prior existence as a mere object.

[@bitterman213]

Premise: the closet dark world’s fountain was opened from inside the depths Fact: darkners can’t open fountains. Fact: when a fountain opens it creates a dark world, which is not part of the depths but rather a piece of the light world with darkness leaking into it. The fountain is not the gate between lightworld and darkworld, it is the gate between darkworld and depths. Fact: you can’t get to the Depths without entering a dark fountain and you must create a dark world when opening a dark fountain Conclusion: whoever opened a fountain within the depths MUST have first gotten there from a different dark world than the cliffs / castletown dark world. So there exists an undiscovered dark fountain. Although this unknown darkworld or darkfountain could have been altered ordestoyed by the act of someone entering the fountain

[@Hoppingslugsstuff]

What I like to believe, is that dark worlds work like most rpgs, they have prior story, you just never get to experience it, so what if the lightners are just players? It just takes a normal pace when lightners enter?

[@embryodemocracy1275]

I just realized something. I've been listening to Deltarune theories for months and here me out here. There's theories that Kris killed Asriel, there's theories that dess is the knight, there's theories like this that explain how there could be two different types of fountains. But it all reminds me. People have theorized about different types of fountains. Theyve also considered concepts like "what happens when you open a dark world in a dark world?" What I'm trying to explain here is what if dess or gaster or someone in the depths is in fact making the dark worlds. This could be true because they would be traveling in the dark during times that make no sense for the knight to be there like the computer lab. And it wouldn't create a light fountain as we have no evidence that exists. If it's as simple as popping a hole in a barrier, and then the darkness leaks into the light, then it's entirely possible in this scenario for the hole to be opened from either side. This could also bring some small explanation to kris's actions at the end of chapter 2. Because it's possible they know something we don't, and there's an advantage to being in this specific part of the dark. I think it's interesting that toby is gonna release multiple chapters at once. I also wonder how much he's keeping from us. While theorizing about what we know is one, what don't we know? What could we grasp from the information not layed out on the table. We have all these theorists looking through Deltarune and Undertale information going crazy, but no one theorizing about the theories. Only sometimes touching on them.

[@embryodemocracy1275]

Alternate theory: Asriel is Deltarune gaster.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

Though compelling, Queen sees the Knight create a fountain. Why? Because she's a laptop and she has a Webcam, so she witnessed the Fountain being created.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Gaster's CORE is not average geothermal energy source, on geothermal power plants phones are able to get through there's nothing to disturb singlas from the inside to the outside of the plant, *however in Gaster's CORE phones are not able to get through **_nor aren't the normal power plants complex enough to change layouts_* , Alphys admits that she doesn't understand fully what capabilities of CORE are. The CORE is also a able to convert normal energy into magical energy, which I assume what totems of darkness are for. Yes those parts you see in the CORE (the things with red orbs) are called totems of darkness in the files. So somewhere *deeper in the CORE might be a dark fountain that is used to convert the energy into magic energy.*

[@ShadowSkryba]

Incredibly well made, I think that this is compatible with the Angel's Hell theory as well. Have to watch the previous video though. Anyway, good luck!

[@Supersonic-gamer45._]

Castle town is the safe place

[@GameJam230]

I've always agreed with the Last Thursdayism concept... slightly. My main problem with it is the idea that characters from one fountain can know characters from other fountains, such as King knowing Queen. It wouldn't br a problem if it weren't for the fact that King would not be able to survive in the Cyber world, or vice versa. Neither of them fit the narrative of the other's fountain, so it wouldn't even make sense for them to have any concept of each-other. However, there is something important to note about the characters who appear to know Queen- one is Jevil, who has a Shadow Crystal, and the other is King, who ONLY references their past AFTER they both arrive in Ralsei's Castle Town. Why is this relevant? Because by adding the computer lab junk to that fountain, they've changed the narrative of that fountain. Now it DOES make sense for darkners of other fountains to know each-other, and Jevil still doesn't contradict this due to his special knowledge of his reality. Point is, I believe this Last Thursdayism only applies on a per-fountain basis, but the fountain of pure darkness is able to change its narrative as more darkners are.

[@justice8718]

Lancer seems to be the Prince meant to be evolved into the narrative.

[@GameJam230]

@@justice8718 Why do you say that? Like, yes, he is *literally* a prince, whereas Ralsei certainly doesn't fit that role at all (unless he's got a secret dad we didn't know about in the basement lol), but it brings up the question- if Lancer is the intended prince, what does this suggest about the prophecy? Furthermore, why would Toby write a gag character so deeply into the main plot that he becomes more relevant than... the dark world anagram of Asriel who is seemingly the ONLY person with knowledge of the prophecy aside from maybe Gaster on Deltarune's website archives? Ralsei simply seems too important to just be interchangeable with Lancer in terms of any narrative.

[@justice8718]

@@GameJam230 Ralsei is the Lancer bootleg and Lancer is suffering from the lack of knowledge of his true role. Just because Ralsei has more knowledge of everything than Lancer, it doesn't mean that Ralsei can truly replace him. When Ralsei barely gets along with Susie, King, Queen, or other upcoming important characters. The Prince of the Dark wouldn't fail in getting Darkeners and the monster of the prophecy to embrace him. For instance, Lancer is able to manipulate the reality of Cyber World (shovel ware, get Lancer'd) and Cyber World embraces him and treats him far more highly than Ralsei.

[@GameJam230]

@@justice8718 Apparently KZbin decided to hide like 3 paragraphs of text explaining why those are flawed arguments, so I guess I can't explain it without it being deleted. But you need to keep in mind how theory construction works- loose connections are not evidence of a statement. Even if Ralsei didn't really like any of those characters (which isn't true for Susie or Queen at all), it isn't evidence of what you are claiming at all. That would be an incredible exaggeration of Ralsei simply having conflicting personality traits with others. You can't prove a statement true by just saying "well that's kind of odd", or providing soft evidence. The closest thing IF ANYTHING to evidence that this is the case is that Lancer is literally a prince, and that we don't KNOW if Ralsei is a prince. But not having evidence something is true is NOT the same thing as having evidence that it's FALSE. That would be like saying "well, I've never SEEN a flamingo before, therefore they must not exist and images of them are fake". Point is- you can't just state something seems weird and come to conclusion from that. I honestly largely blame MatPat for spawning this massive wave of theorists that don't understand the actual process of forming a theory and just think that he's randomly making statements that people decide are true. It wouldn't be as big of a problem as it is now if he made it clear what the actual PROCESS he went through was for a single video, but too late to put the lid back of pandora's box now I guess

[@justice8718]

@@GameJam230 KZbin often has dumb glitches. Don't worry about it. Copy your posts first before you post them.

[@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw]

I personally like this theory. We should of course take into consideration that Kris looks like he drowned, and of course the Dark-Worlds technically were created last Thursday, so I guess we can (basically) confirm that those happened, plus there is connection to the bottom of the world, the deep seas. I personally think there would be either layers of the Abyss, or different areas that resemble or cruelly reflect the light-world. I think that Gaster, as well as Dess and perhaps even our Goner buddy we made are hiding there, and want Kris ( or the knight) to break them free. Other little side-notes: the Knight may be like a human-soul version of a Ghost monster, and can posses people to make them create darkworlds, Kris might be attempting to lure the knight into a darkworld to kill them, Gaster is a neutral party here, and maybe Ralsei knew about all this by listening too often to the sounds from the fountains. Maybe the fountains are portals to the Abyss, who knows? I hope we get to go there to kill the titans or stop the roaring.

[@redheaddjg]

This is a really well-developed theory and it explains a lot of things both narratively and logically. These are some of my thoughts on the theory and what I can add to it. 1. 1:20 I can perhaps build upon your magic theory. Another piece of evidence for magic not existing in the light world is that Noelle wishes she could use healing magic in real life to heal her dad, even though Catti has shown her occult findings and taught her protection spells. I could perhaps speculate that the reason magic can be used in the dark world could be explained by another point you made where the dark worlds are dream worlds that can twist and bend by the *will* by its inhabitants, and that depending on how strongly connected to that world you are and how immersed you are in darkness, the stronger your magic. Perhaps this could explain why Noelle's magic is very strong, why Jevil and Spamton's magic is very strong, and could also possibly explain why the element of one's magic is strongly connected to one's personality cause that magic is part of their will. 2. 27:23 You do have to fall down below the floor in the computer lab to enter the cyber world as well so it's not just the castle town that is seemingly below the room. I'm guessing the reason why that part of the game was done that way was so that Toby could add some suspense to that scene. Maybe all the dark worlds are below the ground. The room is just the entrance to that dark world, and the stuff that was in that room is projected into the depths and that's the dark world, bent and twisted at the will of its creator. Could easily explain how all the dark worlds can be connected and why Ralsei can travel between worlds easily. There's a lot of problems with this theory though. It just seems that there's a lot of inconsistencies with the dark worlds in the game as of right now, so I don't know, maybe?

[@WeaselWeaselW]

I could have gone a bit deeper into the evidence for these things, and I actually did, but I ended up cutting a lot of content from the script just because I didn't want this video to be needlessly long. Sometimes, really long videos look... intimidating, to say the least.

[@ukyoize]

Interesting detail is that Mr. Society ascends to the "Cliffs" in the epilogue of the second chapter.

[@niak_mcblyat2538]

So this might not be true but it's a theory, what if Kris knows where Dess is and is creating dark worlds in order to find her and if he doesn't, he seals the fountain and goes to another location. I made this theory because I don't think Kris would creat fountains just for fun. Again, I might be wrong but that's my small theory.

[@CG09_TMP]

They*

[@BLUE_SHIRT_FOOL]

This is a message directed to members of the Deltarune community. Deltarune is looking pretty big. 7 chapters, while the first 2 result in a game bigger than undertale. This leaves so many paths for Deltarune's story to follow. Please continue theorizing. It really helps bridge the gap between chapters. Just remember, it's nearly impossible to be right, so don't shoot for it too hard. Also, don't be too overly critical of theories on this game. There will be cracks in every theory because the game isn't finished and won't be for a long time.

[@wealexander1949]

I don't get how you still have 500 subs, these videos are so good bruh

[@OhLookItsKenny]

when you were just predicting ToTK 😂😭

[@soupmarine6053]

Your Determination Determines your Destiny

[@user-iv6gy7hb8u]

HOLY CRAP THIS THEORY IS SO FUCKING GOOD

[@bifusmorgus9000]

good theory

[@zixvirzjghamn737]

4:43 OBJECTION, it just matters where the darkners were created and has nothing to do with theme.

[@rickolade1381]

My personal theory is that whatever machine is in Sans's basement is connected to an other like that inside the bunker. So its etiher: A portal to an other reality Gaster made so he can get human souls to escape, or to have a world where monsters could go to live freely again. (This would make an interesting story of Gaster in his prime time and maybe Sans travelling to different worlds in hopes of finding a good one, exploring its new features and facing off its dangers untill they find the DR timeline Or its a gate to a place Gaster intentionally made for the same reason as above. This would explain the dark worlds as some kind of hole in the fabric of reality that has life as the thing that made the light world filled it or some malfunction or a magic hotspot that messes with the programming idk it is an unclear and probably never will be clear. In bot theories Gaster falling in his own creation means he entered the machine in the DR side and while he was in beetween the two places the machine on the UT side broke down and he got stuck beetween them My favourite is the creation theory but it is so unclear at this point that it could be anything.

[@PASTELXENON]

Gonna need the "CORE" remix that the video starts with, please.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

It's called Beneath Heat and Magma

[@wasp5077]

what song did you use for the king of spades thought experiment/last thursday section?

[@bitterman213]

This man is spitting

[@Unethical2023]

About to watch this video. Will give my thoughts later. Edit: Amazing video I agree with most of your points but on thing that's weird is how Jevil is able to know the Queen before her fountain is ever made. Doesn't this disprove the fountain's history being made up? Well maybe if it's a timeloop then Jevil would know but that's mostly speculation. Also what if the cliffs in Ralsei's Dark World were actually a sleeping titan? Overall very well made video and theory. (I wrote this is the early hours of the morning so apologies if anything is incoherent.)

[@loganisanerd5566]

Ralsei is totally Denial. Doesn't he have a line in Chapter 2 along the lines of, "Even if it isn't real, it can still be fun, right Kris?"

[@ERBEpic]

“Fell” into his creation Like how we “fall” into the castle town, and, to the rest of the world, disappear?

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Could also mean "fell" as in became obsessed with his creation

[@WeaselWeaselW]

Yes... like that.

[@sludgeskin]

( *dunks on young earth creationists* ) i like this guy ( *I GOT NO TIME STARTS PLAYING* ) i love this guy

[@WeaselWeaselW]

lmao

[@wscamel226]

frickn anoying dog. I bet he will be true boss of chapter 7

[@cwolf0915]

26:57 Man...this part right here!!! This is what ive been waiting for someone to say about ralsei n the damn closet!! Makes so much sense but no one dives into it. The closet dark world simply moves where ralsei needs it. And it is its own entity within the dark world depths. I hope this theory holds uts ground because i like the b idea that ralsei is just attempting to discover his purpose and identity as the game progresses, which could mean hes susceptible to making a wrong choice simply because he feels he is only trying to do whats asked of him, not knowing its wrong. I wondering now if kris dess azzy and noelle discovered the depths, got spooked by the titans and then fled, leaving dess behind, this traumatized noeĺle and made the mayor furious, firing asgore. (Rudy's illness is unrelated to the incidents) azzy mightve felt guilty and lied about going to college,( i for one believe he went back in to find her n never came back.) Leaving kris unable to speak on it. I truly believe that dess and maybe azzy are down there somewhere...and onion san can even here her singing to some degree. This alone makes the theory even more soundproofed because onion san has to actually dive deep under water to hear the song....i mean wow....theyve been under water this whole time.😅

[@scrungles7853]

I'm not really feeling the "last thursday-ism" angle on this, but I'm too dumb to actually articulate what my personal theory is.

[@ef3353]

When Rouls Kard loses his pirate hat after losing the battle he no longer fits the cyber world theme and turned to stone.

[@Peppermynt.]

Actually, the green room is based on Kris and Asriel’s room, which has a mouse, thus, there would be one lone maus in the dark world.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

As for the creating an fountain lightners must have will to open them, so random fountains wouldn't be created by accident.

[@hi-ougidemonfang]

The titans defeated by ralsei? When’s did we ever get confirmation that he specifically did that.

[@delta_gon5277]

I feel like the last thursday theory is a little disapointing. To say that jevils madness, spamtons rise and fall in popularity and the chaos kings overthrowing was just fabricated on the spot kinda devalues a lot of the games characters and the interactions they've had, especially to gaster. And to choc up half of the dark worlds mechanics to just narrative kind of ruins the magic. I would much rather like to believe that time simply goes faster within the dark world, this could also explain ralsei's and lancers reaction to seeing the others again after only a day. or that maybe these worlds did exist before, and these fountains allow the dark worlds to exist in a new sort of way. I know that kind of goes against some of the lore and parts of the story of DeltaRune but its about as solid as the stuff in this video is.

[@WeaselWeaselW]

Trust me, I want that to be true as well. Last Thursdayism as a concept devalues the experiences the Darkners have - instead of their experiences shaping who they are, they are instead *justifications* for their character. I don't like it either, but unfortunately it seems to be where the game is headed.

[@delta_gon5277]

@@WeaselWeaselW true but hey, we only have 2/7ths of the game to work with. Maybe we will get more detail or perhaps some clarification someday.

[@lilacpenguin5329]

@@delta_gon5277 I was under the impression that opening a dark world was just opening a portal into the space where these characters were existing and have always been existing. Each dark world has a door that we open in order to jump inside. Like, Kris and the lightners are literally crossing out of the light world into this dark world that has always been there. We just create the door that allows us to travel inside. (And for some reason, we seal up or destroy these doors just before we leave.) The reason I believe this is because Swatch seems to have memories of a Lightner who was responsible for creating the neo robot that's down in the basement, and he tells stories about how Spamton seemed to worship it before he was kicked out. He talks about these stories as though they happened before Kris enters the Cyber World. I don't really have anything in the game to back this up, but I assumed that the Nobody-Ghost/Officer Napstablook's cousin (who lives in the house right before Asgore's flower shop i think,) designed the Neo robot on the computer in the computer lab with something like MS Paint, and then gave up and deleted it for some reason. I assumed these characters (Swatch, Spamton, the Queen, Seam, Jevil, etc) always existed there in the background, just not in a way that was accessible. "Sufficient determination" and "creating the dark world" I just assumed meant someone creative enough with enough hope/imagination was able to create the portal and believe in the dreams they had about that particular room or the items in that room. Playing board games after class in an empty room for example, or hopping on a public library computer on a weekend to play games.

[@person4579]

The whole point of dark worlds is that they aren't real so i'd kinda disagree

[@kidsmead7203]

13:27 when he said that the goner/vessel maker might have taken place in the fountains, my first thought was: what if the vessels were titans & the souls were supposed to be the titan's brains/heart/etc. you get what I mean right?

[@kidsmead7203]

but that's just a theory...

[@1gengabe]

Wow it is almost like Deltarune was written by someone who is telling a story... oh wait, it is.

[@BrixVGM]

Comment for algorithm

[@noravanguard3993]

Funny seeing you here. I liked your depth theory

[@BrixVGM]

@@noravanguard3993 thanks

[@WeaselWeaselW]

@@noravanguard3993 The depths theory was made on a discord server that both Brix and I are a part of.

[@Xanthopathy]

Great theory! Though I wish the audio was better

[@WeaselWeaselW]

I'm thinking of getting a new mic. My current one really sucks.

[@redsphinx113]

yo chief, whats that ballerass another medium remix used in the beginning?

[@notaninfodump5929]

Cool video! You know, I wonder since Kris has mixed feelings about Ralsei, would he be compatible with Ch.3 fountain since Kris is the one who created it?

[@WeaselWeaselW]

I think that since Ralsei is from a fountain of pure darkness, he can travel anywhere. And we already know that he is from the Spamton sweepstakes which shows Ralsei in a battle with the Shadowmen.

[@BionicleFreek99]

That's a lot of depression!

[@mrblakeboy1420]

mauswheel is the scroll wheel on the mouse

[@TheTrueXaver]

WOW.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Who created the original Dark Fountain? The one in Ralsei's Castle Town? Who could create the world of Deltarune...? ...Toby Fox

[@sahilhossian8212]

Lore of [Deltarune] Will Theory and The Depths | Unraveling the Dark World momentum 100

[@fingers422]

whats the music in the king of spades section? its so good

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Magic doesn't exist in the light world, except the fact you can create a dark fountain by stabbing the ground. 😂

[@user-ri5qw3ql8d]

bro i just have a though what if not every lighter capable of making a dark fountain? since we didn't see any1 else do it now if u say queen said that this isn't evidence. like queen said she doesn't know everything and the idea that any1 can make 1 came from her realising that the will is something all lightners posses but what if will isn't the only thing needed for a dark fountain? maybe there is a lot of stuff that needs to be done before that. like perhaps maybe the user needs to be in a dark fountain before creating 1? i know there is a chunk of evidence that goes against it but non of it completely debunks it and I don't have any evidence for it yet I'm just putting the thought of it its probably wrong but I'm just putting it at the table cuz there IS a chance its true

[@wscamel226]

5:59 - btw why is last thursday'ism used as a mokery? It makes perfect sense?

[@blackbloom8552]

Its used as a rebuke to the apologist claim that" the universe is 6000 years old and only appears to be billions because god created it to appear that way". The intent is to shows the gaping flaws of the argument by displaying how it can also be used to justify a positions that both side would agree to be completely absurd.

[@thebe_stone]

10:00 how do you know that dreams are what make the neo body so strong?

[@sahilhossain8204]

Lore of Unraveling the Dark World | Deltarune Mega Theory momentum 100

[@pkchiptune]

algorithm comment gooooo! (i dont have time to watch it yet, but it's in my watch later 👍)

[@cwolf0915]

16:23 most likely he fell into a fountain and realized he couldn't swim n sunk lol

[@angelnati8297]

Five nights at Deltarunes

[@USER-DAEEAA]

👍

[@coolaids4722]

is it bad that i like the old mic better then this one?

[@h444teligament]

off topic but does anyone have a link to the cover of My Castle Town that's played in the background near the end?

[@WeaselWeaselW]

archive.org/details/soundcloud-1131532741 pretty sure its this

[@kawaianchelso3013]

Ello Obligatory comment for the algo rythm, will watch later :D

[@gringusgaming]

Im praying please besides the fnaf songs bc everybody knows them give me a list of the music used in this video if possible you have impeccable music choic3

[@scootie_scoot]

you should credit the dess sprite used in the thumbnail! It’s made by huecycles!

[@jacobkrout5740]

W

[@mayhemical]

just popping in to say your thumbnail uses a shitty gaster deltarune sprite i made on pixelartmaker a few years ago and i almost had a heart attack when i saw it

[@WeaselWeaselW]

lmao

[@person4579]

5:35 whats the music playing here?

[@user-iv6gy7hb8u]

17:31 where is that sprite of Dess from?

[@scootie_scoot]

it’s a fan interpretation made by huecycles. Unfortunately it’s not credited in this vid …

[@user-iv6gy7hb8u]

ah i see. thank you@@scootie_scoot

[@facelessfan8203]

Dess Knight?

[@WeaselWeaselW]

Dess could be the Knight if she fell into the depths and got influenced by the titans to do their bidding... but I'm kinda iffy on that.

[@xenux7669]

Your brain is hugeeeeee

[@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock.]

Yes, the world with magic, teleportation, reality bending, etc. must follow the same time flow of the real world, because reasons.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Toby Fox = Gaster

[@tysondennis1016]

You have 666 subs. Are you Gaster?