Delves Impressions: WoW's Fourth Pillar? Are They Fun? The War Within Alpha

[@jeffwhiting4237]

I don't mind these delves getting stupid hard at the upper levels, but hopefully the low to mid-levels are still tuned for average open world players. Let's make sure this remains a solo event for solo centric players, at least for the first half.

[@Crisalpha]

I mean he's judging difficulty on a protection paladin, of course it feels easy and no challenge... Torghast at the very highest level / difficulty was piss easy and no challenge for a prot paladin, not so much for everyone else...

[@willythemailboy2]

IIRC the first two tiers are scaled for characters still leveling, so basically the same level as follower dungeons now.

[@TakaChan569]

"it's kinda easy" man everything does not need to be sweaty bs, that's what mythic+/raids/rated pvp are for. I'm more than happy to have plan fun and not needing to overplan things just to do some side content.

[@SacredFeline]

If they’re supposed to be a new end game pillar they kind of do need to be reasonably difficult at end game levels. We’ll be able to get heroic level gear from the vault by doing these so it’s difficulty should match heroic raid in its own way

[@TakaChan569]

@@SacredFeline Challenge is fine, but it doesn't need to be some over tuned mess that you need some meta build to feel like it's "fun".

[@LuxRP]

na true

[@Crisalpha]

He's also judging it on a protection paladin, the most self sufficient class / spec out of all of them. Feels weird to cast judgment with the one spec that never has any trouble with any kind of solo content even on the highest difficulty and without much gear.

[@memyselftheone]

@@SacredFeline But that's the thing: What they're testing right now is NOT endgame content. It's leveling content. And that definitely does not need to match 'heroic raid difficulty' in any way, shape or form.

[@DanWeidert]

I will be more willing to play Delves because they are not more difficult/frustrating. If I want frustrating I always have real life.

[@josejuanandrade4439]

In other news, ECHO guild tried LFR and found it to be too easy. They think it should be way harder! At least 10 to 20 wipes to down 1st boss should happen so they can "feel something".... Soul... is a lvl 71 or 72 delve... and a lvl 2 delve... and you're a tank, of course is gonna be easy... Try doing it next on a mage or rogue... see how fun it is then... I heard this type of comments back in Shadowlands from mythic geared tanks runing Tormen 13+ Thorgast and saying that it felt too easy... meanwhile, trying to solo lvl 10 with a mage or rogue of normal raid ilvl, felt like a kick in the balls.

[@Crisalpha]

This.

[@omedon666]

The thing to remember is that delves are role agnostic outdoor content: It's literally not supposed to be difficult unless you jack it up and make it so. These need to ultimately be "show up and win" and still be rewarding. This is not the content to tell players "get better." It's like questing, in that it doesn't exist to be friction, it exists to be just... "you showed up, and had some easy fun, here are your rewards." Furthermore, yes, you played as a protection paladin. Self healing tanks and glass cannons play ABSOLUTELY different games in role agnostic, open world content. You literally chose easy mode no matter what difficulty you set it at. Its' the reason I main guardian druid. These are, once again, role agnostic. There is no way to build role agnostic content that glass cannons are meant to be able to solo that will challenge self healing tanks or even remotely role-coordinated groups. In short, it *can't* challenge you on your protection paladin, because mages need to be able to solo it.

[@keithb6344]

Except Brann can tank for you

[@omedon666]

@@keithb6344 I hope so, but every report I’ve seen so far, not just soul, has reported healing or DPS modes only for Brann.

[@POTATOEMPN]

All I saw while watching this was a bunch of raid and dungeon training. Everything these enemies do is something that some raid boss from the past has done or something that an enemy in a dungeon raid would do. So I think it's literally training for harder content. And for group content. Think about it and you die in one of these things. The only person who has to deal with it is you...

[@omedon666]

@@POTATOEMPN You’re free to play delves as a stepping stone of sorts! I’m looking forward to them as an endgame endpoint for me and my friends!

[@memyselftheone]

@@POTATOEMPN But a lot of people, I would even dare say most of Delves' target audience, don't look at it that way. For them delves are the goal, the endgame. They have no interest to ever do a mythic+ or a raid beyond maybe LFR. This content is NOT a stepping stone to those people. And like I said; it's those people that delves are made for primarily.

[@memyselftheone]

I get really anxious with content creator feedback like this. I don't want delves to be hard as a basis. I want them to be easy and laid back and only IF you choose so, you can pick a higher difficulty and do that. I fear that people like you Soul, people who delves really are not aimed at with you being an heroic raider, are going to ruin the system for the people that delves are actually aimed at. Please be mindful of this.

[@Crisalpha]

He's also playing a tank with massive utility and self healing, so not sure why he's giving this kind of feedback so casually.

[@pauldacon828]

Does delves on a retail prot paladin: "It's kind of easy." 😂

[@BritGirlJay]

Back in the day, I liked Islands (just didn't like the 'you need this to get X' stuff, like in Torghast) and thought they were pretty fun. Delves sound like an upgrade plus they won't be 'required' content - just stuff you might enjoy (or can miss if you hate them). I love the idea that you can just DO things for funsies as an alternative to other things.

[@johnj4471]

Nothing was necessary in torghast unless you were massively undergeared or trying to solo the jailers gauntlet etc that were balanced on group play. It’s silly how many of you brainwashed people are out there.

[@rockonblackops777]

You should try delves with s cloth class rather than a tank pally. How about a priest. Then tell Mr how hard the mobs are again.

[@rf4661]

Obvious question, but what ilvl character were you using to run the delve? The early delves in particular have to be clearable by players who possibly skipped DF & are entering TWW with DF quest greens. Which means any character that did any endgame during DF should find it more than "kinda easy."

[@lillbrorsan]

As soon as I heard of this new end-game content I knew it would be my focus, having gone from Raids to M+, now I just wanna do challenging and fun content like back in Torghast.

[@NoobGamer-di1dw]

I really liked torghast the issue was it being required and taking so long for legendaries that was the only issue I had with it. Having a solo system to gear from will be good and Delves should give pretty good gear considering they have their own vault slot as well.

[@LuxRP]

torghast was awful, the entire atmosphere of it was garbage too.

[@ohnoezitsjoez]

I'm firmly in the target audience for delves, and also hope the later levels (6,7,8) offer more engagement. I also don't mind level 8 capping the gear/power reward, but 9, 10, 11 being just for bragging rights makes no sense to me. Since this is intended to the new "fourth pillar of content", and we already have the power rewards accounted for, well those last 3 higher/harder levels could be a place to explore new types of challenges or experiences. But "bragging rights only" just aint it, at least to me.

[@gregjross852]

There should be a special reward either title or transmog for finishing the last one.

[@memyselftheone]

It's like m+ in that regard. No need to continue going higher unless you really want to. And I think that's fine. There should be no honey trap in those higher delves difficulties imo.

[@wisedoomy1584]

M+ does the same thing, you cap out at 20 or now 10 in season 4, and anything above that is just for bragging rights. Whats the issue with that?

[@ohnoezitsjoez]

You can still go for top 0.1% title in M+, thats not just for bragging rights *only*, there is a reward for M+ highest accomplishment. Every major, and many minor, PvE systems reward their highest difficulty/challenge accomplishment. Mythic raids final boss drop a mount, M+ has its title, both MoP and Wod challenge modes had rewards, Mage Tower was full of them, Horrific Vision 5 mask had a reward, even Deaths of Chromie had a final reward. Rewarding the highest accomplishment for a system/season is a well established PvE precedent, so the question of "should if have a reward" is dead on arrival. The real question is what should the reward be? Delves power reward can stop at 8, thats fine, but history clearly lays out "bragging rights only" is a nonstarter. Its not a honey trap, its clearly in line with years upon years of their game design precedent.

[@JackSmog]

I love that a great number of the comments here point out a couple things. 1. You're running a Prot Pally. This does not need to be tuned specifically for tanks. 2. You played the early levels. They don't need to make sweats "feel something" at that level. There will be higher difficulty levels so all you content creators that are numb to the game can have your challenge. And man, just keep in mind that they'd like to win back some of the millions of people who have dropped the game over the years. I highly, highly doubt placing a focus on greater difficulty is high on the list of things wanted by those dissatisfied with the current product. What I'm saying is, be aware of where your own perspective is coming from. Most people don't raid or do M+ and aren't looking for that sort of experience elsewhere either. Just let this be mostly for the casuals, alright?

[@h.i.6513]

Exactly! I like Soul’s perspective on many things but this vid is disagree with. I’d like to see him try it in a fresh cloth class and then give his perspective on the difficulty. I do H raid and M+ and Delves are not for that demographic. I plan to do them but I know I will already have an advantage having done that other type of content then someone who does not.

[@OhNoTheFace]

Don't suggest timers. TImers is where content goes to die

[@marsmech]

I mean saying the lowest difficulties is to easy is a little weird to me. wow Devs have said that the people that watch wow guides and know how to install addons are way more ahead of the curve than the average wow player. just think about any time you've been in LFR how bad people are at the some of the most basic telegraphed slow cast abilities that killed them 10 times in a row, thats who difficulties 1,2,3 are for .

[@Crisalpha]

When you test this kinda thing, it's a bit silly to judge difficulty based on how it feels on a protection paladin. Literally the number 1 spec to level and solo, the most self sufficient spec out of every single class that CANNOT die. You have to remember healers and paper dpses do this crap too, not only tanks with self healing... Besides, even if you were to make a green geared mage (priest still has a lot of survivability), you're still above average and you can't pretend you don't know that. The lowest difficulty is obviously not designed for people that do heroic raids.

[@willythemailboy2]

I hope they make the loot keys like sparks are now, where if you miss a week or two you can get extra keys the next time you run them.

[@sjsr1067]

These Delves are for people that don"t do regular dgs and not for people that do them all the time and , don't have a problem with other people. !!!

[@zardos13]

Anyone that has played Zork, know Grue are in the dark 😱

[@Magik160]

First!!! Sorry, never did that before. I do have a question. Can any character on your account access the Warband bank tabs? Seeing if my bank alt can access to grab stuff to put on the ah. Also, can you put account bound stuff in there?

[@lolzz338]

All of your characters on your wow account will be able to access the warband bank

[@SoulSoBreezy]

Yes. Account bound things will change their tags to Warbound for consistency

[@Magik160]

@@SoulSoBreezy Thank you! I have been watching videos and had that question in my mind.

[@LuxRP]

be cool if they did something like this for raids too

[@SakugaZai]

I worry that delves will have the same problem as mythic+ where it becomes redundant due to a lack of variety. If blizz wants us to really get involved in delves as an end game replacement then there HAS to be designs that make it replayable outside of just M+ attunement buffs on the mobs. That by itself just isn’t enough anymore.

[@simondemoulin5815]

I hope the part of the new flying mount won't be hidden behind the level 9-10-11. Seriously, I had hope to see somekind of biplane plane in game for a while and I don't want to wait for the "Midnight" expansion and the upgraded gear to go get it.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

i imagine that Brann can Tank as well, but since you was on your Prot Pally, he figured that you got that covered. that being said i am looking forward to Delves, i have no issue with Difficulty as long as they can still be Solo'd like Torghast could in Shadowlands.

[@darthbane6958]

Can't wait to try this

[@woobeforethesun]

I'm so glad that Delves will be a thing and I'm sure they are easy at Tier 2 while leveling. They can and should be turned to be a part of the leveling experience at that point. At full level, what I think they would be great at, using the lower tiers as a progressive training tool to teach you about important basics like interrupts, CC, etc (a bit like Exiles Reach when starting out), but as you push higher, they should match the rewarded gear levels. I thought it was supposed to be heroic, not normal? We'll see, I guess. I think at 11, it should be tuned to feel more like a solo M+ in difficulty. Anyway, I'm excited for a purely solo PvE way to earn gear and I do hope as the tiers progress higher, you have to learn/demonstrate more awareness, use of interrupts, CC, etc.. As a new way to skill up.

[@llwonder]

I’m hoping they allow for solo progression equivalent to Season 3 +12 to +15 ilvl caps. Most players don’t really care to go higher than that.

[@ThomasdWell]

I think we need a larger pool to decided if the Delves are gonna be any good. There are a few factors that will be change this outcome: player gear lvl, armor type and Delve difficulty level. The first one I think is gonna cause the most problem because some of us may already be over geared for it giving us a false sense of safety, so when we try for the higher lvl and get curb stomped we'll blame the game and not the player. Second I wonder if a Disc Priest is gonna have the same results as your Tank. If that's the case, good. Torgahst while got fun towards the end of its run was at least not as punishing if you were a squishy class at the start of its run. Lastly why have 12 levels if you're gonna be have to deal with a uphill climb to start with? Why not just have 3 modes, easy, medium and hard? I think it is suppose to ramp up the difficulty so that at the start of the expansion not everyone is making it to lvl 8 the first week let alone all 12 the first month. It looks fun, I like that I can do it with a friend and be glad to see more of it as the Alpha unfolds

[@avyooo]

Delves needs to be easy content, faceroll speedruns like D3 GRs with added "Torghast" powers.

[@SDRaygon]

3:39 "I wanted to feel something" someone played too much Shadowlands

[@TheMiddleAgedKidVideos]

I know I'm in the vast minority, but I'd much rather be OP and have a fun, fast time than be overly "challenged."

[@LuxRP]

same

[@memyselftheone]

I don't think you're in the vast minority at all. I think a majority of the primary target audience of delves feel the same.

[@allanpersinger5274]

Actually, in reality crabs are more dangerous than spiders. I think it is thought that they found the island that Amelia Earhart and she was eaten by coconut crabs, which will hunt animals including people at night.

[@Zerathenezot]

1:32 don't know how I feel about needing a certain item level to enter. They should change it to reccomended item level. The progress through the main story thing is good though.

[@d.j.9739]

I think it's so that you can't get boosted. I wish this was the case for raids and M+, would solve a big problem. One day, maybe.

[@Zerathenezot]

@@d.j.9739 I see no problem with boosting. It's like hiring a mercenary. Boosting services spamming though is a problem.

[@MrMorrigan1989]

Like every other "mini dungeon" blizz did over the last 10 years its going to be fun at first and then a chore and then gets nerfed until its a shitty chore.

[@al.mandez6721]

3:10 it's a good setting for 😺's. I'm scared of spiders in a video game 😺. Smh.

[@Zoocsgo]

Boregast 2.0 from the sounds of it.

[@jonathanjones270]

To be fair, the fact you are playing a tank is making your life a LOT easier.

[@zanacku]

aura check my guy

[@Zutang777]

I also hope I can opt out of using Brann the dwarf helper pet

[@christopherdaffron8115]

The gear ilvl seems to be low compared to the gear ilvl we will be getting in Season 4 of Dragonflight prior to the release of The War Within.

[@leequesada439]

FYI Soul.. It's Brawn(Brann) Bronzebeard, Heard it too many times leveling lol.

[@Mediiiicc]

They will be just as fun as Torghast was

[@tonberryhugs6435]

I dont think they will be THAT bad.

[@LuxRP]

Ain't tried it yet, stop being negative.

[@Mediiiicc]

@@LuxRP It's Blizzard. By this point I know better than to be optimistic.

[@Kapootz12]

lol if a tank were to be in danger of dying in a delve, how would a DPS stand a chance of surviving that much damage output?

[@GothicPrincessAlice]

I hope they don't overtune them, these should remain pretty easy and be a relaxing chill way to get a vault track and have fun exploring imho.

[@tonberryhugs6435]

Reminds me of those nightmare Nzoth things.

[@Drummin451]

Kinda reminds me of Delves in PoE

[@alexfdezpal]

I wish Delves were more like Mage Tower encounters. They would be for solo play but challenging mechanics centric and combat based. Obviously always good to have difficulty tiers. I fear that they will end up being “niffen seeks +”: some combat and puzzle type content but never something that equates to M+ or raid bosses.

[@jeffwhiting4237]

If it equates to M+ or raid bosses, it won't be soloable for casual players. Perhaps at level 11.

[@alexfdezpal]

@@jeffwhiting4237 yeah I meant in the higher tier. I basically want them to work the same way dungeons do having that range from the easy normal up to the mythics. Those are still rooted in fighting a boss though (easier or more complex mechanics) instead of regular mobs and puzzles

[@gregjross852]

This is meant to appeal to casuals and people who don’t want to do group content this won’t have the difficulty of the Mage tower maybe the last level but I even doubt that.

[@alexfdezpal]

@@gregjross852 yeah that’s precisely why I’m saying it. I play solo and casually. That doesn’t mean I don’t want a challenge and engaging content when I do play. Casual/solo does not need to mean boring/easy/brainless. Thats why the tiers might be there though it can pretty much hit the mark just gotta wait for it.

[@treecat125]

​@@gregjross852 There's not much reason to think it won't get hard at the highest levels. The gear caps out around heroic raid level at level 8-9 or something, so it's entirely possible they will make the final levels challenging like Mage Tower.

[@marct138]

reskinned torgast?

[@SoulSoBreezy]

nope

[@UltimateGamerCC]

similarities but ultimately different. for one it's optional content.

[@badman1884]

i don't care about if they are hard or easy, fun or mediocre. The only thing they need to be is solo. I don't want to have to go into them with a rando, who will shout stuff at me and drop group 2 secs after we enter it.

[@LuxRP]

mythic delves :D

[@MagCynic]

If Delves ever give Heroic gear I hope the wipe count is comparable to guilds wiping on Heroic during progression runs.

[@nillsthefunexpert2571]

At least no one will get yelled at.

[@anders12114]

i think thare wil be more way to get semi end game gear this time

[@TaylorinShirewood]

The opinion has arrived.

[@bradstock7274]

any thing will be better then plundersuck

[@noahmoore2608]

It’s only alpha. Maybe they’ll take your words into consideration and tune the delve up a bit.

[@user-bg4lz3gf6m]

Personally devles is something i wont be investing in not sure why there bring in new vision of torgast in when everyones know torgast was pure crap if theres a decent mount tied to it then maybe but not for me

[@treecat125]

Don't you think it's a bit hard to say if it'll be fun this early in Alpha? This seems more like Withered Army training, Horrific Visions, or Deaths of Chromie than Torghast. All of those are very popular.

[@jorgiotoldo8636]

for me it seems like content i dont want repeat.(choregast vibes ) i would have prefered LFR,heroic to mythic lvl dungeon doable with AI warband followers to avoid toxic players , rusher ones and unbearable queue time i will still buy TWW but i hope delves will not be mandatory to have better solo gear.

[@gregjross852]

lol

[@gregjross852]

AI Warband characters so you can die and let your Warband clear for you? Lmao

[@Utred2012]

Does not seem like delves will be mandatory for those doing Raids/M+, as these are separate parts of the Great Vault. As for follower dungeons, those may very well be getting expanded after how successful the feature seemed to be in DF.

[@POTATOEMPN]

Watching this whole video gives me the impression that tells are actually just group content trainers. All of their mechanics are just things that previous raid bosses and dungeon bosses and shit have done. I think this is literally just a tool for people to learn some of the basic mechanics of the game but by themselves where they don't have to cause raid wipes every 5 seconds....

[@meangene123]

please dear god keep torghast powers or whatever out of delves. if its going to be the solo version of end game progression I don't want to have gimmicky rng powers to deal with. please please please don't.

[@shawnc292]

I like them they add some unique moments and some spice.

[@SoulSoBreezy]

I ran into two of these powers and they come from killing the 1-2 rares in a delve. It's definitely not a Torghast like experience

[@Eyrrll]

I’m really looking forward to Delves but the last thing I want is my success being tied to random, temporary powers. I want to start a delve and finish it… not start them, get a bad power, and then restart them (because I know my time is wasted if I try it with the bad power).

[@Zutang777]

@@SoulSoBreezystill don’t want them as a part of the content. it’s too much.

[@shawnc292]

@@Eyrrll I think allowing these to be a fun way to change the flow of the game rather than run dependent is easy enough. Unlike torgast the best gear comes from level 8 of 11 so as long as powers are not "needed" until level 9 Idc tbh.

[@Kafj302]

I am like number 496

[@straighttalkwithkyle7947]

The stupid candle gimmick just made me hate this feature already. I cannot stand any content in this game that don't involve using your character and your characters abilities. Any vehicle combat, timers, rolling rocks, time traps that send you back to the beginning of a room, or anything that requires picking up a special item to be used to move around or in the fight are just aggravating. Make me use my skill with my character and it's class/spec's abilities to defeat content. Not stupid gimmicks.

[@watchonjar]

i thought profs where the 4th pillar

[@SoulSoBreezy]

mog is the foundation from which the pillars are planted

[@madflavaz]

See

[@ramdanesami]

is this procédural ?

[@SoulSoBreezy]

No, layout remains the same, the conditions and scenarios rotate (schedule unknown)

[@candimonroe3541]

Looks like the delves in ESO but ESO we are more op

[@eddiOrtiz]

Thorgast all over again

[@Jacketpotatos1]

The arachnaphobia filter shit is the perfect analogy for the complete sissification of modern gaming

[@aphexinc]

1000%

[@Jacketpotatos1]

@@treecat125 I find it pathetic that someone would be so crippled with fear towards a 3D model of a cartoon spider, to the point of not being able to play a game, Yes

[@yoshiguy123]

Your doing nearly the lowest difficulty level, on a prot pally. Come on.

[@Zutang777]

I really don’t want the Torghast powers. I would rather fun interesting loot to PERMANENTLY empower my character. I don’t want TEMPORARY power. please listen to the players this is meant for.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

maybe voice this in the PTR rather than on a comment section of a content creator? Soul's no dev.

[@Zutang777]

@@UltimateGamerCC you’re not wrong 🤷‍♂️

[@bgh12g]

sadly, the gameplay footage show a world of ZERO risk... you pulled rooms of baddies and just kept pulling as they died. Where is the fun in not thinking? looks like more of a looter/shooter in 3rd person... kinda sad and depressing.

[@keithb6344]

It’s a leveling delve made for non max level characters. It’s like complaining that normal dungeons are to easy.

[@andyroo7206]

That arachnophobia setting is just dumb. For those that will complain "This is a real threat we face blah blah blah" skip to another comment because 🕷🕷🕷Why is it catered for those people? I understand that people have a fear of things, I myself don't like monkeys, but I'm not expecting anyone to make inner changes to the game in order to coddle me. They aren't real monkeys! They aren't real spiders! There should be no fear here, there is zero chance for them to physically hurt you. Spiders are one of the most used assets as a bad guy in videogames, people should toughen up and realize that they're fake. smh 🕷🕷🕷

[@Ragnar0321]

At this rate we need a game with empty worlds because if we cater to everyone fear it’s just freaking stupid.

[@Ragnar0321]

@@treecat125 am afraid of horses,lions,aliens,tigers,cow how can i petition for their removal?

[@andyroo7206]

@@treecat125 digital spiders are a real issue? lol

[@joaomiguelvieira6157]

this expansion looks like crap tbh im skipping it

[@anthonytgameaddict]

What a waste of dev time. Delves suck. The story isnt good enough anymore for this kinda crap. No one cares, reminds me of torghast. Just something ill have to run early on for gear chances. Cant wait to deal with these mobile target dummies. Yawn

[@imbafolk2203]

New torghast GG - shit game

[@Jacketpotatos1]

Slowly taking the “world” out of warcraft. Why is this game even multiplayer anymore? Just make it a single-player experience already. We’re headed there anyways it seems

[@steveh5641]

They are giving single and multiplay options. You choose how you want to play. Seems like an overall positive for the game. I like m+ but once in a while I just want to be able to progress my chars by myself.

[@jeffwhiting4237]

What do you mean? WoW has always been soloable. It said so right on the box. Quit begrudging solo players ANY end game content.

[@GothicPrincessAlice]

Solo casual players are one of the bedrocks of any mmo since the 2000s

[@Jacketpotatos1]

@@GothicPrincessAlice what does MMO stand for again? I forgot

[@Jacketpotatos1]

@@steveh5641 endgame rewards should be difficult to obtain, thats what makes them rewards. Soloable content is just codeword for easy mode

[@noonesp3cial]

imagine being so weak you need a filter to hide digital cartoon spiders. no wonder wow is so disney now