The Warcraft Villains Who Did NOTHING WRONG

[@PlatinumWoW]

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[@snakelord2234]

U were so happy u got to say balls in an add lol

[@grunt8836]

Im completely convinced to do everything to my balls after this ad! YEAH! BALLS!

[@mailmarca]

That company's stuff is far from good

[@mrksjke]

F manscaped and their overhyped bs. Get yourself a good trimmer for half a price and no fine print paid subscriptions.

[@Dulgus]

I have a lore question i found a hint of in the book day of the dragon , I couldn’t find anything on the web except a corpse in northrend near the wryntemple. So who is Manta?

[@HiddenEvilStudios]

As someone who's been cheated out of his pay before, I wholeheartedly conclude that the Defias Brotherhood did nothing wrong.

[@Anthony-eo3ro]

What about the innocent people they attacked ?

[@deppert2009]

@@Anthony-eo3ro should have joined, fucking Bourgeoisie enablers.

[@Lizard1582]

@@deppert2009 shutup roleplayer

[@alihorda]

@@Lizard1582 shut up, bottom text

[@beewo6307]

@@bombkirby Wasnt she killed by a random stone thrown when she appeared during a riot? Which lead to Varian promising to deal severely with the rioters so the stonemasons fled. Punishing the whole group for 1 random rioter throwing a stone which lead to her death seems bad still.

[@grumbledore424]

The original epic questline. Learning the King is missing, finding out why the Defias was started, getting sent to rescue Marshal Windsor, then finally unmasking Onyxia. Absolutely incredible. It makes me sad to see what the writing has become.

[@BierBart12]

As unfortunately happens to all MMOs, them being the most expensive medium among all media, it will end up attracting businessman assholes who will destroy it with businessman asshole practices What's amazing is that some of the devs still have that old passion. They somehow made it all work in a super limited game engine from 2001

[@Telmustard]

Yea don't forget how there are Alliance forces deployed south to STV instead of in RR, at Onyxias request to give Black Rock Mountain and Nefarion more room to operate.

[@liukang3545]

@@BierBart12 hahahah you really think the old devs are still in the company? HAHA ! XD

[@BierBart12]

@@liukang3545I know that two are.

[@hoyhoy852]

Classic WoW storylines (the ones that they actually bothered putting effort into) were really good, but I guess at the time they didn't account for it being MMO "live" experience back then and just wrote it as WC4.

[@KevinArcade87]

I really love the "down to Azeroth" tales in World of Warcraft. Stories that could exist in the real world too without the use of magic.

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

It got out of hand with the cosmic scale of things, honestly, so much mystery was taken away. I think the first step into that direction was to make us from "Adventurers" towards "The Chosen". It works great in FF14 but it is not the right thing for Wow

[@6105boe]

I do love to have some magic in there too, but it has to make sense. Atm it's basically so out of hand that it's not even worth thinking about the story itself because any one of the big ol' powerful magic forces in the universe could just snap their fingers and end everything, seemingly. 'Small magic' is good magic :)

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

At least the Defias cannot claim racism towards the white people in Stormwind . ;))))

[@MyidolGwen]

at the end of the day less than 1% of the worlds population actually deal with these cosmic threats.... only a handful of people went on the vindicaar to argus... only a handful of people went to the shadowlands... meanwhile life still goes on in the thriving nations that spread across azeroth. id love stories and adventures that go on in these regions. they used to write them. the civil disputes between the bloodhoof and the grimtotem tribes. the gnomes of gnomeregan vs the leper gnomes. the dwarven clans. grim batol being all but abandoned. the immense massive ancient city of shadowforge. what even goes on in there? the fact that the orcs while content in a rebuilt and remodeled iron foritification of their city, still have had the ambition of LEAVING the scorched desert of durotar. the gurubashi trolls who were pushed out of zul'gurub twice... have the darkspear ever given thought to returning to the jungle? and then there's the HUGE ??? potential with the forsaken right now and whats going on with lordaeron... and even gilneas... blizzard go back to writing stories for back home! none of us care about what's going on beyond pluto

[@RecklessKmikaze]

It doesn't take a genius to realise that day to day issues make for more relatable/compelling storytelling but I guess that catering to the endgame pushers(in all fairness that's where the whales swim and that's where the money's at) pushed Blizzard into soap opera territory. There's just not much RPG left in WoW and therefore no need for interesting stories.

[@peytonibarra8992]

This is one of the most realistic stories in the human questing zones, the other one being about the guy who butchered an entire family because he got turned down by the girl he was tutoring.

[@luclin92]

Oh that story is just awesome, and how you just collect clues all over the Eastern Kingdoms, and you finally find the guy and he is just a tragic figure living in a shack by the end

[@Resi1ience]

A girl who was on the "cusp of womanhood". So not only a murderer, but a pedophile too.

[@IluvatarEru]

The Legend of Stalvan Mistmantle is my favorite quest line. It's so good

[@vartosu11]

Realistic? The masons rebuilt an entire WHOLE city (using their own resources and funds I presume? though this would make it even more silly if that was the case) and only AFTER it was done in its' entirety they asked for payment instead of getting paid in installments? I've tried looking to find how long did the rebuilding take but couldn't find anything conclusive, so I can only speculate that it took more than a year(since people from abroad had enough time to hear of the reconstruction efforts and deemed it worth it to migrate and join the labor pool). All those workers had to be paid in order to afford food and lodging, they couldn't just "Oh we'll get paid when it's done so no problem we'll eat twigs and sleep in the bushes". If anything it's very unrealistic. They could've divided restoration work by districts and ask for payment whenever a new district was finished, if not ask for money on a per building basis. If there's no more money to finance it, jazz music stops 'till there is. Not to mention, this could've been a perfect turning point for humans to establish a form of paper money (maybe with magical anti-forging elements on them), something basic like I Owe You notes or checks, to allow them to afford everything while there was not enough gold/silver whatever metal tenure they were using, you know, similar to how it was done in our world.

[@BierBart12]

@@vartosu11 I like your last paragraph, but unfortunately this whole thing is very realistic. The entire city was just destroyed and all that the people could even think about was getting their home back. Nobody's gonna argue about labour laws when your medieval city home is a pile of rubble. The 1755 Lisbon earthquake is a comparable event. The entire city was in ruins and its rebuilding efforts couldn't be paid for by the state, yet it sparked a new age of architecture and massive disbelief in God(meaning that the main controlling faction, the church, lost most of their power) as people rebuilt the entire city in a streamlined style never seen before. The church kept telling people to stop building and just pray the problems away, which is hilarious

[@Blutwind]

The Biggest Mistake the Defias ever did was not placing a Quest NPC in the Human Starting zone to recruit us to their cause Also Defias on Legion stuff shows how big their BALLS are the others need light infused Super soldiers those guys go in with the knowledge on how to bully farmers

[@zerotakis]

The only thing that keeps kil'jaeden up at night is the memory of that one random guy who brought a knife to a space fight.

[@renaultellis6188]

Imagine a Human Allied Race where your character starts at Northshire, but a Defias NPC send you to their quarters

[@darkkrenify]

light infused super soldiers i beg your pardon the warrior one had the souls of fallen warriors that were basically brought back to life and put in suits of armor so basically i was sending out more undead that a god damn nacoromancer

[@wrecks3437]

The Legion are just soul farmers and can be equally bullied.

[@brandondavidson4085]

And for the Horde, you can have a choice to join the Burning Blade. Most of the quests are the same but you get them from different NPCs and you get a cool bandana either way

[@briankay3146]

It's great how the Van Cleef's have a motivation for what they do... unlike Zovaal.

[@galgrim8672]

But we have no idea how long he waited! The plans set in motion!

[@joshuawall646]

Zovaal has a motivation it just that blizzard is probably going to make us fork over $60 to find out.

[@briankay3146]

@@joshuawall646 he's motivated by blizz's stock price

[@historicflame972]

@@briankay3146 That really is the greatest villain origin story

[@jsc1jake512]

The Jailer could've been such a great villain if they didn't rush his story and tell us nothing up until the last patch. That end quote too "A divided cosmos will not survive what is to come" is just doing what they did to him the whole expansion. They neglected the MAIN VILLAIN and for what? More Sylvanas screen time? We still don't even know "what is to come" or who the hell the First Ones even are.

[@BlueberryFundip]

I loved the story of Van Cleef and it always made me a bit sad that his guild never got more story time.

[@Malumbrus]

I fuckin' lost it when the Defias run the guy out of Moonbrook with the Fear spell sound, and then Van Cleef poofs in and has a chuckle. Also, the harvester golems have bloody scythes for fingers, mate.

[@rdsasuke1]

If only Edwin Vancleef became Superman by pledging his loyalty to a mysterious villain no one has ever heard of before. He could have assaulted Stormwind all by himself and won.

[@fleperd7021]

this is a good one

[@Lasershadow]

Or even better he had Bolvar's story. Got pissed at Lady Preston for not paying as promised. Discovered who she was all along. Got locked up trying to obtain evidence against her. Jailbreak Quest (SEIZE HIM AND HIS ALLIES!). Wrathgate. Made Lich King. Kicked Sylvanas's butt and kept crown. WIN.

[@Elenrai]

You joke but, Edwin is down there, which begs the question; what the fuck is the jailor even doing not putting VanCleef in charge?

[@biohazerdtrollztrolls4798]

Like the brain dead logic of the defias... Damn you sw you took everything from us so now we will take everything from every human we can within x distence and make innocents be punished for your actions that are actually our actions of making these innocents suffer more but we will blame you for our own actions yea you take that sw nobles who dont care about these people were punishing for your actions but im sure you will learn as we keep punishing the pesents your nobles dont care about yea take that. :D Shifting blame and focus for there own actions at its finest. It worked too as many think they are innocent for killing and destroying the lives of innocents all in the name to make nobles who dont care learn? yea sounds like defias didnt care about humans enogh to even think there plan through..... But yea im sure programming farming equipment to kill innocents too thats a innocent action thats justified by a government not signing your pay check too :D very reasonable :D Like they wanted to use gnolls to destroy sw like the litch king used scourge to destroy lorderon.... He did not care how many wemon and children the gnolls would kill so long as the nobles were taught a lesson...... in reality defias is one of more evil but simple organizations in warcraft when you learn about how many war crimes they were willing to commit and the genocide they were preparing to commit. all becuase of a few nobles becuase the defias felt what the nobles did was worth every human life in sw if it so needed to be.... but yea van cleef was not as bad as the radical scarlet leaders :D

[@stankobarabata2406]

That's only reserved for characters the author can m*sturbate to and write self inserts of himself into the story to have fantasies with said character. Sorry mate, Edwin is just a compelling male character. Why do you think Xal'atath took the body of a beautiful Elf and not some Dwarf, Tauren or Troll? You know, one of those races that doesn't really have good lore anyway and their females aren't traditionally appealing? Yet we have like hundreds of Elf characters who all get their spotlight. Hm. Weird. Almost like it's written by someone with an Elf fetish.

[@sucraloss]

Defias storyline was incredible and simple. It also showed a lot more depth to the Alliance, and further helps you feel that each race in the Alliance had its own issues and turmoil instead of today where the Alliance is just Humans and friends.

[@stankobarabata2406]

I'm still amazed at how shockingly lacking the Alliance is in terms of story. Horde has like 4 Civil Wars, two rebellions and a dozen characters rise and fall from prominence one way or another over the course of WoW's life as a whole. Meanwhile the Alliance is just... there. Almost like a reactionary force to what the Horde does. Horde does bad > Alliance opposes > Horde memebers (aka us) band up with Alliance to depose a leader-turned-despot, and the cycle continues every few expansions or so. I don't see any alliance leader doing anything drastic or maybe even playing a major role. Well, anyone who isn't Anduin or the Tyrande/Malfurion power couple that I Absolutely hate.

[@bobmilldew]

I was genuinely expecting the last sentence to end with “this story has stood the test of time. At least until blizzard finds a way to make this a part of the jailers plan”

[@OMartinez91]

At this point, the Jailer planning everything is the WoW equivalent of the Reverse Flash's "it was me, Barry!" Meme

[@uptowndunker6346]

It was always the jailers plan according to the jailer

[@anthonystrickland7049]

@@OMartinez91 "It was me Maw Walker!"

[@BottledDelusion]

I’m surprised they didn’t make the jailer behind everything the black dragonflight did too

[@Raxxer1993Q8]

@@BottledDelusion please don’t give them ideas. 😂

[@Griezz]

Ever notice that the human starting zone has so many classic D&D monster types that you don't really see again in the game? Gnolls, kobolds & the mighty, mighty murlocs just kinda vanish after the first zone or two.

[@lozm4835]

It's honestly slightly mad just how much DnD there is in Warcraft. Not that DnD itself can get uppity with how much it stole from tolkein but.

[@JamesTodorovich]

No, the mighty murloc never vanishes, their pretty common everywhere, and I think gnolls with a different model are in dragonflight, didnt play df so that might be a lie but it was on wiki. Think kobold are rare though, want to say most are lvl 1-20 quests.

[@champ7139]

It's crazy that they never really resolved most of these issues. WoW was really interesting when the scale wasn't...... cosmic level. Everything from Illidan to Deathwing was fine. All this outerworld level threats kinda ruined it for me.

[@placeholdername3818]

I feel the same. I think the Legion expansion was the biggest I wanted it to go. I preferred the small stuff. But they wrote themselves into a corner. We kind of discovered every inch of Azeroth by the time of BFA.

[@champ7139]

@@placeholdername3818 i mean yeah we did, but technically speaking they never really addressed the other side of azeroth except the fact that no one has ventured to explore and came back. So they obviously just either forgot or didn’t care

[@suchen403]

Westfall ftw

[@konstantinkunz2256]

@@champ7139 They forgot as in Ulduar there is a globe and there the only big landmasses are Northrend, Kalimdor, the three continents of the Eastern Kingdoms and Pandaria. Even more funny it is that in Chronicles 1 they talked about it having multiple continents before the sundering only to retcon it that there whas only Kalimdor back then in Chronicle 3. So the only way to get new areas is we get another dark portal to get to another new continent that survived legions destruction or the alternate draenor comes back and they decide that actually WoD Draenor whas made way to small so we get a bigger Draenor Then we will as orcs kill Draenei again and as Alliance help Velen to kill his people again that went mad by some kind of big entity again only that this time it is the light that whas supposed to help them.

[@phoivos]

But warcraft always was about outerworld level threats. The legion, Sargeras. It's just that those were core elements of the WoW storyline, while later villains like the Jailer were made up on the spot and given way more significance than they deserved

[@ClockworkArchon]

Imagine being a citizen of Alterac during the Second War, having your city's defense ignored by the Alliance to the degree that your King's only reasonable chance at survival being to cooperate with the Horde, then having the Alliance rock up and burn your city and it's farms to the ground, and declare all "allies" of King Perenolde enemies of the state and forbidding giving them any form of mercy or quarter. Stromgarde begins demanding control of your land from the Alliance before the war is even fully over. Then imagine trying to live in your ruined, famine-riddled land with no defenses or armies, being prey to ogres and bandits and all sorts of trouble. The Alliance does nothing to protect you, even though you're just a peasant and had nothing to do with the war, and you remember that it was the Alliance that put you in this position to begin with. So obviously, you want to leave Alterac and start a new life, and where better than Stormwind? It's currently rebuilding, and a project like that requires many workers. You take your family from Alterac to Elwynn, with little to no protection on the road, through all kinds of nasty environments. But you make it, and you work for years to reconstruct Stormwind - times are lean, you have very little money, but you make it by on what little you brought with you. Finally, the day comes when the city is rebuilt. The nobles refuse to pay you. You have no money left over, a few kids and a spouse to take care of, and now you have no job and no pay for years of work. You don't have the money to return to Alterac, and nowhere else will have you - Lordaeron's gone, Stromgarde is gone and hates you, Dalaran is a crater, you can't afford passage to Kul'Tiras and Gilneas is walled off. They claim debt, but that's not a real problem, they had plenty of land to grant instead. Plenty of farmland in Westfall they could've given you, which would've both been fair compensation and made Stormwind's borders more secure. Instead, you're forced into crime to afford food. The Defias Brotherhood, obviously. Of course, you can blame Onyxia for the problem, manipulating young and the nobles to withhold your pay, and that would never happen under King Varian... only when King Varian returns, he does nothing to provide recompense, only doubles down on the military solution. He then proceeds to fuck off to Northrend with most of the army - see, they can afford a whole fleet of warships, a massive new harbour and brand new fortifications on the ass end of the world, but can't afford to pay for your years of labor. All of this is to say fuck the Alliance. Not that the Horde in recent years have been better, mind.

[@liarwithagun]

From what half-assed knowledge of Warcraft lore I know, Horde and Alliance both seem like assholes and/or idiots but one side are framed as the good guys.

[@warllockmasterasd9142]

Considering Edwynn's ability of management. I dare say he could had been a huge attribute to Stormwind had they just paid him.

[@dogswifty7800]

Onyxia being Onyxia made sure this didn't happen.

[@Maria_Erias]

@@dogswifty7800 And after Onyxia's true identity was revealed, the nobles were too prideful to ever admit they'd been duped. A very realistic outcome.

[@emetanti]

The man managed to whip a bunch of angry stonemasons into the mafia, basically take over Westfall and build a giant warship....and then his daughter picks it right back up and is one of the few times in WoW history where the player character has to actually run the fuck away to regroup. VanCleefs are just built different.

[@warllockmasterasd9142]

@@emetanti I guess the Wrynns and Onyxia felt too threatened.

[@Elenrai]

@@emetanti Next time;Cookie VanCleef!

[@tyberiusmcintyre3411]

most of WoWs older lore still holds up pretty well tbh, i love it

[@stuarthutzler6670]

20:55 The Defias are the Black Widow in this Avengers lineup: their out-of-place mundanity makes it frankly _more_ impressive that they actually contribute.

[@bass-dc9175]

So the Hunters would then be ... Hawkeye? Damn that works too well.

[@Shiirow]

"Just like Westfall, all over again." "You and I remember Westfall very differently."

[@Stickarms99]

@@bass-dc9175 Paladins are Thor, Warriors are Hulk

[@bass-dc9175]

@@Stickarms99 Pretty much. Then Mages would be Doctor Strange.

[@913_Niyala]

There was so much good/mysterious lore around the beginning zones, I think that's why I enjoyed leveling around the human area the most when I first started playing. And Vanessa was such an intricate fight! I've never seen a dungeon boss fight that is as raid-esque as she was.

[@biohazerdtrollztrolls4798]

wait burn her down click rope burn her down is raid esque? damn not high standards for raid content.

[@Tomha]

Yeah, the Rogues army was pretty wild in Legion. Thieves, Pirates, and Thugs vs Demons

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

warhammer has an entire race that consists of them.

[@Tomha]

@@thanquolrattenherz9665 yeah but they don't have the tech or magic that either version of Warhammer has.

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

if i remember right skaven are the pinneapple of tech and maybe magic atleast magic maschines

[@Tomha]

Oh I was thinking Dark Eldar xD

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

@@Tomha both are noble races but the lore describtion read on the surface can let people thing the noble skaven race consist of thieves and thugs and their proud warfleets are simple pirates when they are in reality the chivalric heroes of the old world but from the outside they look like badguys. maybe dark eldar are not that noble they have this sadistic touch to their aesthetic.

[@M.A-k6u]

6:11 HAHAHAH LOOK AT ONYXIA'S FACE XD

[@drekbleh7081]

Today I learned the stormwind nobles tried to pay stone masons in the equivalent of paying a artist in "exposure" Truly evil

[@snakex555]

Her ship death reminds me of this guy who used to control Bahrain and was kicked out by the current ruling family, he raised his own ship and crew and started raiding the seas around Bahrain to get revenge on them and then he was surrounded by ships and boarded, instead of getting imprisoned or killed he blew himself and his son and a whole bunch of enemy sailors up as a final act of defiance

[@kaelmic7476]

"The nobles of stormwind will pay!" *Proceeds to rob the common folk

[@ZanathKariashi]

they started attacking the trade convoys and estates of the nobility, but as the defias got larger and expanded, they simply got too large to properly control. Additionally Ony was fucking with them, due to persuading them that she was on their side and had allies among the nobles who would ensure they would get what they deserved if they could remove that corrupt fucking King from power that allowed the Nobles to persuade him to not pay up even though he could've over-ruled them and made them honor the agreement.

[@wardenm]

@@ZanathKariashi Not to mention, Its stated anyone putting on red could up and join. Start off with robbing nobles and trade convoys, but more and more proper thieves and opportunists joining, then that whole us versus them mentality of "if you're not for us, you're against us"... it becomes similar to a real life mess all around, similar with Scarlets. Really miss those older, more nuanced small enemy groups! Everything is so... grandiose now.

[@Yonhondainove]

@@ZanathKariashi In cata they killed Old Blanchy(or whatever its name in english)... I doubt hero horse could've been blamed for anything.

[@GoodGirlKate]

@@Yonhondainove That horse is evil.

[@psychotropicfan]

This is no different than sanctioning countries poor people because you don't like their leaders. “hey why don't they just die to overthrow them?”

[@SalmonellaSam]

I just wanna say that this man is amazing i quit wow years ago but i watch this doods videos because he literally makes it more interesting than the game does

[@six2make4]

Stuff like The Defias Brotherhood and The Scarlet Crusade is why I and I think others would like a return to the more old school way of storytelling, when everything "threatens the existence of the universe!" it becomes a lot less memorable, to me at least. Like imagine sending the current "version" of the Champion in WoW to deal with the Defias, yeah, they would still be a big problem for Stormwind but it would be like using a nuclear warhead to clear out snails in your garden, such monumental overkill.

[@jesserothhammer7378]

The "lesser" villains were more relatable. They were people, and it's easy to understand dejected people doing shady things as revenge or to survive.

[@MyidolGwen]

the champion would bring in Ebonchill and just 1 shot freeze the entire mines frozen, killing everyone inside instantly

[@Tespri]

Power creep, its problem in so many stories

[@firesoldier343]

you can only save the world/universe from a huge evil so many times before it becomes boring

[@danortiz]

This is why I like Goblin Slayer, Before the Demon Lord or World ending bad guys can destroy humanity, lesser evils like goblins are more dangerous to most towns. Yes, it is a bit of exageration, but I was happy saving the world from liutenants and lesser evils than fighting World destorying beings with a sword.

[@thetango797]

The Defias Brotherhood really actually did do nothing wrong... Defias: 13:15 The Defias Brotherhood did exactly one thing wrong.

[@drekbleh7081]

"Why are you doing this to my farm?!" "Stormwind nobility refused to pay so you will pay for them!" "...but I had no control over tha-" "Get out! I'm the good guy!"

[@karthis5911]

Yeah exactly, while they where wronged thanks to the dragon (this video ignored that Varian was going to pay out of pocket for everything but they then increased the price so even his family's wealth could not pay for it.), they did more evil than most bad groups in the game. So many innocent died because of them.

[@rokka7188]

Because nobles live in a well-guarded castle with Stormwind guards pretty much insuring their wealth and family to be completely safe. And their ultimate plan with the warship, was to directly to infiltrate that castle. Even with their connections, there's not many reasonable ways to directly get at Stormwind nobles and the rich. Quite a few uprisings in history and riots, will always have innocent bystanders suffer some consequences, or those who stay neutral or are compliant to how various nobles rule over things.

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

@@rokka7188 that sounds like a real stupid justification i heard for terror and could be from a textbook for fanatics. just a note the last part sounds like its justified to kill everyone who dont sides with me or dont want to get involved with this. also the rich were never part of the story it was about the nobles and the stonemasons and how they both got played by lady prestor.

[@Elcarsh]

@@rokka7188 So, you're going with the logic of Al Qaida? Good to know.

[@rokka7188]

@@Elcarsh ?

[@selwrynn6702]

The Defias questline in Classic is my favorite one that has ever been in the game. From Elwynn to Westfall, Redridge, Duskwood and even into Stormwind itself. Spanning 4 zones and 2 dungeons and going from level 3 all the way to level 30. There are even some later quests that take you to Dustwallow Marsh as it all feeds into the Onyxia attunement and raid.

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

worgen had a nice questline too and it streched from ashenvale to duskwood and then gilneas and silverpine with the scythe of elune with an funny reference to karazan at duskwood with the riders. with the exception to gilneas who only existed as a questzone later it was a fleshed out story since classic

[@GlobstersMessenger]

Would be cool if the horde had alternate instances/quests that involved supporting the Defias brotherhood. Y'know, funding an insurgent group that is undermining your geopolitical enemy... Doesn't have to be that complicated.

[@warllockmasterasd9142]

they got a deadmines version in cata where they take the boat.

[@renaultellis6188]

The orcs caused all of this. I doubt the Defias can even think of joining with them

[@alex_ho]

@@renaultellis6188 I'm sorry, did the Horde refused payment for the Stonemasons? No, the Horde was the reason the Stonemasons even got the job in the first place, the ones at fault is still the nobles of Stormwind.

[@yaelz6043]

Maybe even just a quest about bringing supplies to starving orphans of the defias and helping refugees get past stormwind guards.

[@MrSafior]

Should make the Brother hood an allied race for the horde.

[@louislacroix4864]

Imagine creating a complex and creative criminal organization with unique leaders that face grounded challenges and issues that plague Azeroth when the Jailer can have a plan

[@Shiirow]

Edwin had actual motives, the Jailer just had a plan. the difference between the Metzen Era of writing and the current Denuserverse.

[@DJstarrfish]

Shadowlands is the "It was me, Barry" moment of WoW

[@jayjaygolden5123]

​@@Shiirowfingers crossed that metzen will force them to retcon jailer somehow.

[@ethanwilliams1880]

@@jayjaygolden5123 They kinda had their chance to retcon, and they didn't. Dragonflight lore is also equally doggy imo, if in a different, less universal-altering way. Also the art style of the last 2 expansions has gone all the way down the drain. This Destiny-esque garbage we keep getting is super lame. He's got his work cut out for him, but I would totally accept that it was all a dream created by Nzoth, if only to get the lore back on track. Then again, BfA and Legion also introduced some serious garbage, so I don't know if we CAN go back now.

[@biohazerdtrollztrolls4798]

Like the brain dead logic of the defias... Damn you sw you took everything from us so now we will take everything from every human we can within x distence and make innocents be punished for your actions that are actually our actions of making these innocents suffer more yea you take that sw nobles who dont care about these people were punishing for your actions but im sure you will learn as we keep punishing the pesents your nobles dont care about yea take that. :D Shifting blame and focus for there own actions at its finest. It worked too as many think they are innocent for killing and destroying the lives of innocents all in the name to make nobles who dont care learn? yea sounds like defias didnt care about humans enogh to even think there plan through.....

[@chrisvandermerwe7111]

My favorite part of these videos is the incredibly accurate voice over actors. There must be dozens of them for each video!

[@stock6600]

Some of them are actually Hearthstone cards voicelines. Edwin and his goons are definitely taken from there.

[@omfgSHORYUKEN]

I really wish the game explained smaller backstories like this, with simple in game cutscenes. Defias brotherhood and scarlet crusade are really interesting stories but I never knew anything about them or why I was killing them.

[@TarjeiElias]

The most realistic storyline in WoW.

[@1Piecer]

Except the ending

[@Maria_Erias]

@@1Piecer Read up about the Whiskey Rebellion sometime. Or the Coal Wars during the 1920s and 30s. VanCleef's story is pretty realistic. Even down to his daughter being absorbed into a larger organization and becoming a non-entity.

[@finisaborigine1712]

Fact is that the storyline is partly inspired by the Knights Templar & Freemasons. It is a mix of the story of not paying the rightful pay to the Builders and the prosecution of the Knights Templar by nobility and church. This is being futherly strengthened as an argument if you see that in WoW there are various items that are inspired by these Brotherhoods like the Masons Fraternity Ring (if im not mistaken as a q reward from Hinterlands) Master Builder Shirt (hint to Hiram Abiff) and many more. The historic fact that many of the Knights Templar defected into other organizations and/or brotherhoods that were scouring the seas and sailing (as they were master sailors) - dont forget they sailed and built Rhodes - Heraklion - Strofades - Malta before returning to France and then Scotland - that they were prominent figures of controlling areas and assaulting Royal Navies. Aw just coincidence is that one of the oldest Templaric and Masonic symbols is The Skull and Bones or the Jolly Roger. No wonder why the Defias Brotherhood are party Pirates but also Assassins (see Hashashin Islamic Esoteric Societies) but yeah.

[@natem7097]

every time one of these videos comes out, I have another twenty minutes of bliss.

[@reyjusuf]

The Defias storyline is the reason why the human starting zone is my favorite starting zone

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

Yes i love the defias brotherhood! Westfall is still one of wows best written zones I could legit write a disertation on all the layers of complexity of their story. THATS how well written it is I will mention something that i never hear people consider Which direction vanessa vancleef left the deadmines Consider this Shes a small child and shes just seen the evil men leave through the nearest exit Theres only 1 way out of the deadmines The long way Meaning she had to walk and crawl over all the bodies of her fathers men, who for all we know she saw as her friends. All the way through the empty mines, and run out of moonbrook all the way to the saldeans farm Think about how traumatizing that day was All that after seeing the death and beheading of her beloved dad "There is no Hope" indeed

[@strawberrylotlizard]

Good point that's a solid villain origin story

[@Mar_Meg]

What do you mean only 1 way out ? What about a cave behind the ship?

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

@@Mar_Meg that cave is where the heroes went Do you really think a little girl is going to follow out the very people who just murdered her father and beheaded his corpse in front of her? No. Shed go the opposite way. The long way.

[@ConnorNotyerbidness]

@@strawberrylotlizard thats not even to mention the big think platinum left out- she rallies the homeless of the alliance by being Kind to them She gave them food, gave them hope (through vengeance) and helped them out so often she was known for her charity work All the while she was recruiting them to take what they saw as rightfully theirs. He points the blame at stormwinds economic downfall at the defias, in reality its made clear that the war in northrend is what bankrupted the alliance(sadly a plotpoint they dropped going into mists) Combine that with the econimic downturn and a housing crisis with deathwing having destroyed a ton of buildings and living space, theres a reason there are so many homeless Or the continued corruption- horatio lane is sent to investigate the murder of the furbrows cause they were still technically Landowners But he wont even try and stop the murders happening 20 feet away with homeless fighting each other for what little they have left Sorry As i said Disertation

[@mrtoothless]

@@Mar_Meg Try reading, you might like it.

[@JamalCorrie]

No matter how much blizzard tries to screw up this game, you can’t deny how abundant and creative the lore is.

[@prevbean]

was

[@KingZercules]

I was totally in love with Vanessa VanCleef! When I learned she was back in Legion, I rolled a rogue just to be with her lol. Westfall and Deadmines are my favorite zones in WoW. It's the only time where toward the end of the storyline, I actually question myself if I'm the villain or the good guy!

[@patrickstar1164]

Vanessa is my waifu

[@aerynnjoyguerrero1575]

Its a good thing that you can actually fight with her as you adventure through the broken isle because of the order hall stuff

[@Mediados]

0:06 Every Horde player wants to know your location.

[@TheRealMycanthrope]

So racist

[@llynellyn]

Venessa was one of my favourite villains in WoW as her prime motivation was essentially to get revenge on me for killing her dad. Immersion factor: 100.

[@AverageDrafter]

Get a Tank/Heal/DPS trio together and run Northshire Abbey to Deadmines / VanCleef in a single session or over a weekend. It is the pure Wow Classic experience in a nice contained scenario. It hits a lot of story beats and memorable moments in quests, including the absolute best city entrance in the game, and has an obvious end point in which to conclude the story. Its well known by now that the Human areas were worked on the longest, and it definitely feels like a fully curated experience.

[@superbaas8822]

Cookie doesn't need an explaination. They just reinforce the fact the Defias is open to all enemies of Stormwind.

[@stevenpitera8978]

It's funny because while the defias had a legit reason to rebel against the nobles of SW, they attacked tons of regular people. They also made no effort to figure out why would the nobles refuse them payment leaving it up to random adventurers to figure out the true story. All they had to do was talk to the people of westfall/duskwood/redridge to figure out something was wrong and investigate further. Actually all they had to do was join up with redridge and figure out why the blackrock orcs were invading. Instead they murdered 3 city states and caused them more trouble lol.

[@1Piecer]

So when you work like a slave for couple of years and the day of Payday comes your thought is let's go in Scooby-Doo chase? How would they manage to survive with their families until this investigation ends? The Noble reply was literally the EA reply during Star Wars PR, (They should feel Pride and Accomplishment) for working as slaves for years.

[@42Nightsyesterday]

Well that’s pretty true to how these things go down in reality lol

[@liarwithagun]

@@42Nightsyesterday Yep. What amounts to angry slave rebellions are messy as shit with them chronically lashing out at everyone even people that aren't responsible.

[@TheClearSight]

i have now seen about 6 or 7 videos from you, and as a video editor myself i have to say, your edits are fantastic, and the humor is excelent! 'job's done'

[@purpledragonofdoom]

This story is so much better than modern WoW. Believable characters goals and motivations which you can relate to and makes sense, this is not asking too much Blizz ?

[@GGiggles]

The further blizzard pushed the limits of godlike damage numbers the less humanity the storylines seemed to have

[@BadReactor04]

It’s so funny the Blizzard couldn’t learn from their own story about compensating people appropriately for the hard work they put in. Like, all they have to do is look in one of their own games to see why players and employees are leaving them.

[@gruntmasterbroadcast]

Jailer: "I didn't do anything wrong why won't any of you guys believe me!?" Players: "Its cause we genuinely don't have any idea what you even want!" Jailer: "Wait you guys don't know what i'm after either? I don't even know what I want or am after! Its like some unseen force is guiding me to make decisions that genuinely don't make story sense at all..." Blizzard: "And with that we've setup the next expansion's big bad! someone behind the scenes who was truly the big evil mastermind behind all of Wow's lore! Truly we are the greatest... Why are we bleeding subscribers still though..."

[@merminator416]

The stone masons: Well boys, we did it. We rebuilt Stormwind City! Now to collect our pay. Stormwind nobles: *credit card declines* The stone masons:

[@AvelineMelena]

My roleplay guild main hangout place was Westfall, and one of my main character had her story deeply tied to the region and the Defias and i LOVED this place and the lore around it.

[@Strikeoutking]

The editing doesn't need to be grim dark, but the jokes and comical editing deflate alot of the story. I'm also being generous with the term comical.

[@Snyckaa]

I have played a lot of world of warcraft. I didn't even knew anything about this story. I have always been like "accept quest and move on!!", no time for reading. I'm kinda embarrassed. I would LOVE if every dungeon had a introduction video IN GAME made by Platinum Wow. That would be dope!!!

[@er2206]

Same, I forgot about this story

[@thomassleziak1222]

back when the lore was amazing and S-tier.

[@Lecrabx]

glad that heroic deadmines is finally getting the recognition it deserves, still in my mind after like 10 years its one of the BEST dungeons they've ever made all time

[@attemptedunkindness3632]

I'm glad some of these channels have over-the-top built in ads, otherwise I wouldn't even know YT was auto playing weird stuff, and I can close away.

[@domidium]

Killing the queen, the ONE person who actually wanted to fight for the stonemasons, was probably the only part that Onyxia didn't have a hand in, and the part that was entirely the stonemason's fault. I mean, they killed the queen...and thought there would be no repercussions for it... because...smart.

[@AfunnynameWEE]

They just threw rocks. Sure it was bad and dangerous but it wasn't a cold blooded murder or anything planned, just the result of a mob.

[@domidium]

@@AfunnynameWEE Still, it was against the ONE person who was actually on their side.

[@javierperrusquia6423]

Platimum Wow: You are fighting inter galactic war, with spaceship flight demons and light imbued super soldiers and then there is just like this dude, with a bandana and a knife... Dude wearing a bandana: This is not fair. Pulls a second knife. Dude wearing a bandana: Now we are even.

[@_blasfemy]

i adored this story so much. in classic, i went through all of the related quests like 10 times at least. such a blast =D

[@wardenm]

Not to mention Deadlines itself! My first dungeon back in Vanilla, SO iconic!

[@kuzz1191]

man its kind of sad how platinums views went down for his videos because noone cares about wow anymore, you make such good content i dont play wow anymore but i still watch every video.

[@lovelywaz]

Imagine if there was a Warcraft TV Series rather than 2+ hours movie. There are a LOT of side stories that can be told in a TV Series and it could've been an awesome show.

[@luclin92]

Just using the setting and you could have a lot of fun stories. Like I managed to track down the warcraft rpg books and dam just using what lore those books have(all based on the lore from Vanilla) and I could see a ton of stories that easily could be made In the setting.

[@jaysonjackson3455]

This is even before you get into the stuff behind the scenes. There are accounts that say writers wrote Tedrassil to butcher Sylvanas' character purely out of spite.

[@Bloomazz]

Not finished the video, though I intend to. Just had to comment, as soon as the "Video by this sponsor totally unrelated" came up I started aiming my mouse to skip... But you really drew me in. My balls love being a sponsor. Thank you. From me and them

[@Raxxer1993Q8]

Thanks Platinum for this, and many other videos. It’s so pleasing when the lore isn’t extremely intricate, but simple and captivating. That’s some creativity I have to admit.

[@sqentontheslime1967]

In the hearthstone Lore, Edwin does manage to last long enough to raid Stormwind's harbor- but rather than demolish Stormwind with it, they're mostly just comissioned to Smuggle a group of Horde warriors into the city so they can rescue one of their friends from the stockades. Stormwind still gets demolished though- a large demon is summoned right in the middle of it, though no more is said about the Defias brotherhood, so I'd imagine they leave after stealing a bunch of stuff from the Harbour and go back to their Cove to bide their time, possibly annoyed that a Demon already wrecked up their target before they could.

[@derisgaming9773]

They were justified until the Queen died, whom had been the strongest supporter in helping them. Everything after that was their own problem.

[@Pixtel1]

They killed and robed more civilians than the nobles they were against, tales were justified anger become unjustified madness.

[@TyrannosavageRekt]

Wasn’t Tiffin’s death an accident though? No one was trying to kill her, she just got caught up in the rioting. Not to say that the Defias are innocent though. They robbed and killed plenty of innocent civilians.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

"What ever happened to Lee Van Cleef? What ever happened to Lee?"

[@i.j.dragonfly3123]

The Alliance: "We stand for peace, nobility, justice, and mutual cooperation between all of our people! We're the good guys!" Also the Alliance: "Hey there level 5 warrior, want to go bust up a labor union?"

[@Dawnrunner42]

Literally!

[@jayjaygolden5123]

"i dont know, sounds kinda fishy-" "Youll be paid in silver and experperience. also, theres loot" "you shouldve lead with that!"

[@Mexican00b]

for me the defias and other "low lvl mobs" being there in the legion expansion, invasion of Argus, just showed how much of a real threat they were for storwind and other places you know... they may not have been on the level of us players in powers, but the fact they can hold their own against universe travelling demons can assert their danger and kinda explains how a lvl 18 mob couldnt give troubles to capital cities with max lvl + 5 - elite guards

[@KrotharSmash]

Even if you put the majority of the blame on Onxyia, its crazy how at no point do the Alliance try to come terms with the Defias.

[@Cr-xp1qh]

I mean they killed the Queen so I don't know how you can come to terms with that.

[@SelfProclaimedEmperor]

@@Cr-xp1qh A regretable incident, but I'm not sure why she thought trying to do public speaking to a violent riot was a good idea.

[@Poeticphyre]

As a Horde player, it's things like this that make me think, nay, have convinced me that the Horde isn't "that evil" and that the Alliance isn't "that good." If you ask me, I think the Horde's more misunderstood than evil.

[@Sharphe]

until blizzard thinks oh no horde is too likeable. which warcrime should we do

[@mattieonutube273]

The Defias had every right to be upset of course. Don’t think it means you should plan on destroying the city and the innocents within with a giant warship though. I think their bloodlust and how far they were willing to go for revenge is what actually made them evil.

[@mithshude]

most people would probably lose their minds completely if they were denied years of pay to be fair

[@lesgrosgainz]

Also by killing Varian's wife they pretty much shoot themselves in the foot.

[@mithshude]

@Panel Deepak you and your family starving can do things you wouldn't imagine, especially if someone caused that pain through betrayal to begin with

[@mithshude]

@Meme Core until the queen died they were in the right, after that it went downhill for sure yeah

[@pinkpidgeon6926]

@@mithshude Still the whole situtation was alliance's fault.Also not like she was assinated she died to rock like an which was an really funny accident.

[@Secretsofsociety]

I really wish that during content droughts they just put a little effort into making timewalking worthwhile. So much great content that no one can experience anymore.

[@Icytouched1337]

Your videos are amazing! Massive nostalgia throwback. I just started playing WOW again not long ago after not playing since the end of WotLK. I'm currently on retail, but I might go on classic. Your dungeon dives made reminisce the part I liked the most about WoW: dungeons. Keep it up!

[@alistairbolden6340]

It is crazy how many effort was put into the Allience zones over the horde.

[@Konuvis]

What an absolutely fantastic video! The Defias questline was always my favorite, plot twists, makes you walk all around EK, morally gray.... so good! I loved the SW riot part with all the fire. Wanted to shout "kill the beast!!" the whole time.

[@biohazerdtrollztrolls4798]

Like the brain dead logic of the defias... Damn you sw you took everything from us so now we will take everything from every human we can within x distence and make innocents be punished for your actions that are actually our actions of making these innocents suffer more but we will blame you for our own actions yea you take that sw nobles who dont care about these people were punishing for your actions but im sure you will learn as we keep punishing the pesents your nobles dont care about yea take that. :D Shifting blame and focus for there own actions at its finest. It worked too as many think they are innocent for killing and destroying the lives of innocents all in the name to make nobles who dont care learn? yea sounds like defias didnt care about humans enogh to even think there plan through..... But yea im sure programming farming equipment to kill innocents too thats a innocent action thats justified by a government not signing your pay check too :D very reasonable :D Like they wanted to use gnolls to destroy sw like the litch king used scourge to destroy lorderon.... He did not care how many wemon and children the gnolls would kill so long as the nobles were taught a lesson...... in reality defias is one of more evil but simple organizations in warcraft when you learn about how many war crimes they were willing to commit and the genocide they were preparing to commit. all becuase of a few nobles becuase the defias felt what the nobles did was worth every human life in sw if it so needed to be.... but yea van cleef was not as bad as the radical scarlet leaders :D

[@BladedAngel]

21:02 The dude is probably like, "okay, so...are we ever gonna get paid for our work as Stonemasons? Why am I even killing Aliens? How did I even get here? whatever"

[@youtubeonly520]

Blizz could have done so much with the Defias. Absolutely wasted on level 25 mobs. There's some universe out there with a defias raid in vanilla WoW or even crazier - you can somehow join them. Oh what could have been...

[@TheStorm0208]

That was an aspekt of vanilla. Not every story had to be on endgame because the lvling process was such a big part of the game

[@GGiggles]

Ikr they coulda made a raid using stormwind itself! Vancleef holding anduin hostage and you gotta rescue him. Perhaps a timer on that. Bolvar helping you but if the timer expires then anduin dies and bolvar loses the will to fight ETC!!!

[@contecgames6225]

I think an endgame Scarlet raid would've been more suitable. Also Syndicate could've played a way larger role at the level of the Defias

[@AtlasRyuk]

My heart has never been broken so horribly as it was when i learned cookie canonically died, got turned into an abomination, then died again. :(

[@selwrynn6702]

Well the STV expedition was those “rebels” + all of the people in Kurzan’s compound as they were all part of the same expedition. Kurzan just sorta went crazy so the expedition fell apart.

[@Rustyjamesman]

Holy shit I didn’t even know there was a heroic deadmines and that fight seems like it’d be fun as hell

[@mk_gamíng0609]

I they did a lot wrong tho They became murderers and thiefs often targeting the poor They did little damage to the nobles who they hated and instead did more damage to completely innocent parties They could of put there talent into restoring westfall but they did not They built a massive warship and a underground base , meanwhile Moonbrook was in ruins and the people of the area suffered

[@Ravenaxis]

Lady Katrana Prestor. Now THAT was a villain. **The Jailer protests** Hush there, child, and learn from professionals.

[@padalit4031]

Great job with the models and use of in game assets. They are getting better and better every video.

[@ShadowdaleA]

"The uncrowned are like a secret society for rogues" Oh so like Ravenholdt Manor? "THIS IS DIFFERENT!

[@SL4PSYM4XY]

Man rebuilds Stormwind. Man cheats man out of pay. Man destroys Stormwind and kills a queen. Gnomes inherit the world.

[@Theheartnet]

The Defias were just workers fighting the bourgeoisie, they didn't do anything wrong.

[@Theheartnet]

@Panel Deepak You have to crack some eggs to get there

[@Justjustinp]

Edward VanCleef: “And I would’ve gotten away with it too if it weren’t for you meddling adventurers!”

[@ReynoldsGarrett]

In PvP worlds… Playing alliance: sees horde minding his/her own business and he/she doesn’t initiate an attack. Playing horde: alliance follows me throughout the map to get one HK when I’m minding my own business. Who’s the real “bad guy???”

[@TheOneWhoReportsForDuty]

Edwin has such an intricate plan that I can’t help but want to see a video game where he succeeds and PCs are on his side. That sounds amazing.

[@MrAskmannen]

The biggest reason for the Defias Brotherhood being "evil" is that Onyxia screwed them over though, not the Alliance per se

[@roflewafe47]

True but neither side knew until later. Onyxias plan wasn't revealed until after the defias brotherhood was originally brought down in classic WoW. By that point the rest of the brotherhood was just a band of bandits and thieves the guild had hired. With pretty much most of the masons gone already. Not surprising the brotherhood kept going. Most of these guys probably never even heard of onyxias plot anyway after it was revealed. Everything travels by word of mouth in this era so "oh yeah a dragon did it" may sound like a lame excuse to the remaining members

[@MrAskmannen]

@@roflewafe47 Oh what i meant was that i doubt the DB would even exist to begin with if Ony didnt have influence in Stormwind

[@MarkEvSg]

Was nice to see some Totalbiscuit footage again. Shouldn't forget him ever

[@skivvy3565]

I always thought the van cleef storyline was so messed up and made our characters look like the villains. The whole stormwind masons guild and etc getting screwed over after rebuilding the war ravaged city then getting screwed and branching off, then we go and silence them blizzard’s team breaking up a union

[@wyvernusilluminatus7117]

Watched almos all your videos from the earliest ones to todays. That's beautiful, man! Keep going!

[@AnoraoftheMists]

Imagine the modern Champion, Annhilator of the Burning Legion and the Scourge, Hunter of Old Gods and Aspects, Veteran of the 4th War, Ambassador of the Shadowlands, and Time&Space-traveller able to brawl against Titans and Arbiters, dealing with a group of defiant rebels who were not paid...

[@TrilainaBloodwind]

Vanessa is one of my favorite "villains" in WoW. She's got a good story, and she's such an awesome boss fight. Loved having her in my class hall as a member of the Rogue's :)

[@qichen85]

Erm, didn't the game says the whole stonemason/defia thing is because Onyxia was behind it? You know, the whole giant black dragon, daughter of deathwing trying to pit the humans against each other?

[@BreakfastAtNoon]

I'm waiting on someone to do videos like this but for the entire story line.

[@itsoktoberight4431]

I would have to say the harvest golems we're probably one of the most terrying mobs in WoW, Freddy Krueger style, glowing red eyes

[@Samsonthestrange777]

I love these kind of videos as well as the story videos with the night elf dude you should try to make more like them. I know there is only a limited amount of lore but still.