Demystifying Beethoven's Große Fuge

[@GeodesicBruh]

Ironically, despite being deaf he must have had one of the best inner ears in musical history. The more i come back to this work the more I understand that I don't understand how he could imagine any of this.

[@damaljinev]

Yes! Something like this would be so hard to hear just in your mind.

[@stefanparrott]

That second fugue is probably my favorite fragment of any composition. It's insane to think it was written almost 200 years ago.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

It's insane to think it was ever written.

[@davidrothstein765]

Although I have been listening to classical music for over 50 years, I first heard this composition only 10 years ago. I remember that I was literally paralysed for 20 minutes, I couldn’t believe what I was hearing, this was Beethoven in 1825??? This was 100 years before it’s time! Many thanks for this fascinating video!

[@riverstun]

yeah, try the Bach fugue 24 book 1 from, what 1720? Better yet, Bwv 802

[@jmrecillas]

I think, my friend, this is the most anticipated video of the year, and not all the thanks in the world will extend and signs my gratitude to all the effort you put on every video you made. This is the best hommage to Beethoven on his 200 anniversary!

[@erikbreathes]

its his 250th

[@genemcmichael351]

@@erikbreathes )

[@billguyan9626]

What I've found with Beethoven's late quartets is that no matter how long you've listened and familiarised yourself with them (and I've listened to them for decades) you frequently hear something you haven't noticed before.

[@ultimateconstruction]

Remove the word "late". His early and middle masterpieces are just as good.

[@billguyan9626]

@@ultimateconstruction The late quartets are on an entirely different level, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

[@ultimateconstruction]

@@billguyan9626 I do know what I'm talking about. Some aspects of His early and middle period are lost in His late. You're clearly deliberately avoiding listening to Nos.1-10 Quartets because everyone praises His late and you think His earlier Masterpieces aren't worth a listen. Such logic only reveals your insular mindset. Of course His late Quartets are Masterpieces, I'm only saying that the earlier Quartets are not a single bit worse (if not better in some aspects), they're just different.

[@billguyan9626]

@@ultimateconstruction How do you know if I've heard Nos 1`-10. That and "His early and middle masterpieces are just as good" proves you'll just say anything.

[@ultimateconstruction]

@@billguyan9626 You're spouting a bunch of words that lack substance and aren't backed up by anything. If you disagree with me, then at least burp out actual argumentative points. Why exactly do you think His early and middle works are "worse"?

[@FiveSharps]

I remember when a string orchestra arrangement of this quartet and Schoenberg's Notturno for Strings and Harp were programmed on the same evening at a concert in my college, and the sheer confusion in the audience when they realised this was beethoven, and not Schoenberg. Truly, one hell of a gorgeous piece.

[@Durtlepower]

I think it sounds more like Beethoven than shoenberg, so I disagree with that audience, what do you think?

[@mozartsbumbumsrus7750]

Which college was that?

[@vincent-ataramaniko]

How can anyone think Beethoven is Schoenberg... I love both but it's impossible to mix them up

[@mozartsbumbumsrus7750]

@Vincent True but they could both be on the same program

[@aparacity9676]

Now we need the Hammerklaiver Fuge

[@OnlyMozart1]

You mean the last movement? Amen to that.

[@MasonIshida]

Agreed

[@ivanmakhalin1635]

Agreed

[@davidbudo5551]

Yes!

[@golem2008]

yup

[@LuxtremeDE]

Crazy to think that this came out of a real persons mind. Feels like Beethoven was fighting for his life in this piece. Given that he was completely deaf at this point it's even more insane. Great work on the video!

[@ultimateconstruction]

Don't forget He is basically a God.

[@PatrickOfTav]

I remember a discussion which happened a long time ago between Hans Keller and Deryck Cooke during an introduction to Schoenberg's Op.31 Variations. Cooke, who thought music stopped at Mahler, said something to the effect that if you can't sing it it isn't music. Keller promptly sang the theme from the Schoenberg and then said to Cooke, "Now sing the Grosse Fuge".

[@Richard.Atkinson]

Well this video proved that I can't sing it...

[@lvbbbasdsjcjm]

It's all about the who the you is.

[@user-ol1ib1ss2b]

Glad you picked the Takács Quartet recording. Love their intensity!

[@Richard.Atkinson]

It was the only version I even considered using.

[@user-ol1ib1ss2b]

@@Richard.Atkinson Right?? I think they best capture Beethoven's character.

[@diegeigergarnele7975]

I usually listen to Italiano sq for Beethoven but I agree that for the great fugue Takacs is just much better because it has more nerve. Still I'd suggest listening the italiano sq for the first Razumosky quartet and the op 132

[@gervaisfrykman266]

@@diegeigergarnele7975 I loved the Italian Quartet, but for me they have been superseded by Quatuor Mosaique.

[@davidbudo5551]

I share your love for fugal music, but not your knowledge. Your hard work driven by incredible passion is truly impressive and I appreciate all of it. Thank you for breaking down a piece of music that has broken me down to tears of joy, sorrow, anguish, rage, elation, and more. To Beethoven and to you, good sir. Cheers!

[@user-ok8rh6py1x]

In a way, I met my wife thanks to this incredible piece. We met at a chamber house concert organized by the startup Groupmuse, whose founder decided to start the organization after being immeasurably moved by a recording of the Große Fuge. Thank you, dear Beethoven, as well as Groupmuse, for helping me find the love my life. And thank you, Richard, for creating this brilliant video.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

I love your story! For me, the Große Fuge IS the love of my life!

[@4034miguel]

Given the time and effort to build and edit these analysis, I understand why they are not so frequent. But, how I would love to listen and watch one every single week. It is the absolutely best way to find, understand and appreciate these masterpieces. I cannot stop listening to Schubert's C major string quintet. And now I am adding a new favorite. Thank you so much.

[@micheasz2552]

Beethoven is like history of music in a nutshell. Great video as always !

[@jernejoblak7633]

Regarding the discussion about which piece should be the final movement of the b flat quartet; a similar thing happened with Beethoven's Waldstein sonata! He originally composed a different 2nd movement - Andante Favori (you can listen to it here on youtube). But when he played the sonata for some patrons and friends they suggested that it doesn't fit well with the rest of the work. Beethoven stormed off but then thought about it thoroughly, concluded they were right and composed the 2nd movement of the Waldstein sonata we all know and love today!

[@pablov1973]

Beethoven was a genius, but he was insane!!! He had to be crazy to leave his own time, his own world and jump more than 100 years and meet Bartok, Webern and the late Stravinsky. Thank you so much for create and share this video!!!

[@bullshitman155]

fyi "late Stravinsky" - work of Stravinsky's later life "THE late Stravinsky" - Stravinsky, who has died

[@enriquesanchez2001]

Thank you, Richard. I fell in love with the Große Fuge over 40 years ago (and consider it along with Bach's Chaconne, the greatest pieces by mankind.) The one place where I would like to detract from your excellent and to most people, mind-boggling analysis is the CODA. Upon first hearing this almost a half-century ago, I whimsically perhaps, but realistically considered quite a unique and perfect culmination of what had gone before. If we can consider the last gathering of motifs as a respite from the monumental searching Beethoven had wrought during the piece. Beethoven brings in the most lyric and unexpected conclusion imaginable to his great fugue. In essence for me, here I am whimsical again, I can feel the oncoming entire romantic period of music emerging from the "red" subject. Certainly, you might be charitable to agree that the chordal/harmonic progression of the last few measures is tantamount to Beethoven heralding the coming romantic era of music - not as a let-down to the entire piece but as a clarion call. Well, there you have it. My entire impression of the coda as a most perfect culmination of one of the two greatest pieces composed. Thank you, again.

[@reecerivalland1528]

WOW! 50 mins of explaining hardcore Beethoven could never be done better than you sir. You really do the musical gods work. Thank you.

[@yaboibobby7776]

I've never clicked on any video so fast, I've waited for this specific video, from you especially, thank you!!!

[@fredhoupt4078]

BRAVO!!!!!! Best music analysis video I've seen / heard this year. I am really surprised that you didn't mention the great fuge at the end of the Hammerklavier. The G.Fuge has so many textures that remind me so much of the H. fuge. Andras Schiff, in his famous lecture on the great H piano sonata makes it clear that the work was not pretty music at all. The Grosse Fuge fits this description to a "t", as we say. As a matter of my own sense, it seems to me that philosophically speaking, Beethoven had in mind to change the manner in which his audience would think of musical lines. He embarked on completely shaking up sonata writing with the Hammerklavier in 1817. He seems to have pushed chamber musical lines as far as he could go with the G. Fuge in 1825. Chamber music writing was never the same, was it? I mean you would still get the delicious Romantic era musical compositions yet to come. But, the Hammer and the Grosse were unprecedented and totally transformative. I also heard rhythmic motifs that appear in earlier works in his sonatas and quartets. And, whoever said that Beethoven was not much of a fuge writer should eat their words after listening to this hyper complex monster. It is not pretty music, as Schiff said of the H. It sounded to me that each instrument was existing in its own dimension. Hence the aural impression is of a 4 dimensional storm, hurricanes and tornadoes that intermingled with each other in fragments, bumped into each and then spun off in different directions. It sounds to me that in Beethoven's imagination he tapped into the creative and destructive powers of nature. The G. Fuge allowed us, so to speak, to see how the universe assembles, disassembles and smashes creation into shape and then repeats the process of tearing apart and assembling. No wonder why Gould was so enamored of this piece. A monster of a piece but totally necessary in the spectrum of what music could be. Beethoven said that the Hammerklavier would give generations of performers trouble for a long time to come. The same could be said for this grenade that he lovingly tossed into the medium of string quartets. BOOM.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

"this grenade that he lovingly tossed into the medium of string quartets" I wish I'd thought up this phrase!

[@didierdemeestere2496]

Contemplating the beauty of music is (for me at least) the strongest source of joy and an important drive in my life. The only thing that could beat it is discovering a new sense of beauty in music I already know. Your videos always do the trick and for that I thank you very much.

[@ruanpingshan]

When I was in uni, a company was promoting a brain tonic called "essence of chicken". I asked a friend what is tasted like, and he said it tasted like "a hundred chickens squeezed into a bottle". The Grosse Fuge sounds like a hundred classical music pieces squeezed into a bottle.

[@dfkfgjfg]

I just about to sleep. Thank you for keeping me up an extra 40 minutes. I'm sure this will be worth it Edit: It was 50 minutes and definitely worth it. Best video on the channel so far!

[@TGMGame]

The Große Fuge has been a huge inspiration for me. It's one of my favorites of Beethoven.

[@neilgoodman2885]

As a non-musician growing up with a mom (dad was into early 20th c. popular) who loved the classics, I can tell you, "If you put it that way, now it makes some sense." Thank you for explaining some stuff I never knew, please keep explaining. I like it.

[@sharmilasengupta9250]

Große fuge is one of my most favourite pieces. Thank you for explaining it. I love it more now.

[@pawdaw]

So many thanks Richard! I'm reminded that I saw the Arditti Quartet play this as the OPENING WORK in a recital that went on to include Dutilleux's Ainsi la nuit and Xenakis' insanely difficult Tetras. It was just as modern, blistering and overwhelming as the rest of the program.

[@EvangelinoFranca]

Brilliant analysis of a magnum opus like the Grosse Fugue. Congratulations on the work and I hope it continues.

[@edelcorrallira]

I've never understood it's inaccessibility. On first listen I was enthralled, and have since seen my fair share of analysis of this wonder ... But even on a cursory listen, this is such a compelling musical statement it's so passionate and so capable of expressing such a wide range of emotion. It's like watching the sunrise, while you do have diffraction, and can go deeply into the atmospheric composition of our planet and the spectra of light emitted by the sun, and perhaps further research how the sun itself is generating this light and so on... I think it's quite easy to appreciate and enjoy it's beauty without need for such artifacts (which are quite welcome, just not required for enjoyment) I'm by no means putting down the almost incalculable intellectual prowess, knowledge and multiple gifts that made it possible. I'm just saying that regardless of it's complexity, it's really a delight to listen to this Magnum opus of Magnum opuses... Just because it's such great music. That said, analysis to me, deepens my appreciation for a piece I've been in love with since I first crossed paths with it. It's just as wonderfully architected as it is as a piece of Sonic art when turning your rational mind off for some time and engaging in musical bliss. What an incredible treasure this is!

[@lilawylie]

Can't thank you enough for your analysis. Unbelievably, I lived seventy-one years without knowing about this eccentric masterpiece. Now I listen to it almost every other day. So much rich detail to absorb.

[@TheEtude]

I got goosebumps when I saw this video uploaded. That's how much I love the Große Fuge.

[@TomRussle]

46:06 the blue theme is distributed between the viola and cello and then between the 1st and 2nd violins

[@Richard.Atkinson]

I was so annoyed to have missed this that I corrected that in my latest video (same analysis without the voice commentary).

[@choiyatlam2552]

When I first listen to this fugue as a Highschool kid, I already knew about the name it bears but was still blown away by it. The tonal ambiguity at the beginning shocks me well. I thought,“ how is this even within the boundary of tonal music.“ After watching the video, I was shocked by the rhythmic dissonances. Nonetheless, the thing I marveled the most must be the craftsmanship of Beethoven, which I failed to truly appreciate myself. Having written a fugue myself, a crappy three-voice fugue with cheat (computer playback), I cannot imagine how amazing is it for this masterpiece to be composed by a man who cannot hear.

[@m.calloway2624]

Great analysis! Worthy of its subject. "Demystified" is an understatement. As someone who has listened to this work many times over 50 years, I am grateful for this enriching and illuminating experience.

[@pokerandphilosophy8328]

It's great to have you back after a long absence! ...and with my favourite piece of all the classical repertoire! (Bach is my favourite composer, but Beethoven's Große Fuge is the single work by that amazes me most).

[@jernejoblak7633]

This just might be my new favorite video! I've been waiting for it for over a year, expected a lot, yet was still staring at the screen like a child at a new toy the whole time. I love your work!

[@tomseligman4842]

Rocking a baby to sleep in my arms in the early morning light here in Berlin, and watching/listening to Richard‘s witty, self-deprecating, deeply-thought, vibrant analysis… takes me back to the source of why music is the richest stuff in this life. An absolute gift. I used to put Klemperer‘s recording of the GFuge on the turntable in the LP room at school (there was such a room! with sound-proofed walls and a musty old carpet!) and listen over and over.

[@earlplayspiano]

Like perhaps a few other commenters, I performed the Große Fuge on piano for four hands with a friend. Such a great piece! I've only heard the string quartet performed live once, but the entire quartet was perhaps the most musical performance I have ever heard. Such a great quartet! I've been working on the Goldberg variations for a while now and posted my first public performance of some of the variations today. Maybe that's why your video showed up for me. You've inspired me to make a video or two about the Goldbergs. Thanks for the video and inspiration! :)

[@Richard.Atkinson]

I wonder if the KZbin algorithm heard that I mentioned the Goldberg Variations in this video and suggested it to you for that reason?

[@earlplayspiano]

@@Richard.Atkinson Totally need to collect my thoughts and make a video around the Goldbergs. I'd think there's plenty of material to make a feature length documentary. Feels like the Goldbergs are in constant rediscovery of late :) Fwiw, I work as a programmer and am just starting a project to programmatically look for patterns in music. Perhaps up your alley? I will likely just open source my code. Not sure if I will find anything, but I am excited to try :) Große Fuge is so amazing. Thanks again for your video and a touch of inspiration!

[@Richard.Atkinson]

@@earlplayspiano Sorry for the 2-years-late reply! This is definitely something I'm interested in, since I spend so much time in every video doing tangents about patterns that remind me of other patterns.

[@patrickrealdeal]

The more you listen to the Grossa Fuga the more it grows into you. Thanks for the amazing analysis!

[@johnchessant3012]

0. This is truly amazing! I know I'll be coming back to this video many, many times. 1. No adjective for the title? I suppose Große Fuge does not need an adjective to sell how above-the-rest awesome it is. 2. On the other hand, I lost track of how many times you referred to things as the *most* exhilarating / startling / chaotic / overwhelming / all-consuming / funny / confusing / favorite. The Große Fuge is indeed superlative, as is your vocabulary. 3. That's an interesting connection with the Bach WTC Fugue! 4. 6:33, 24:03, 30:28, and especially 32:50 5. Regarding the "rightful finale" debate, I totally agree that playing the Große Fuge as part of the Op. 130 trivializes it somewhat. I actually feel similarly about Bach's Chaconne in d minor. 6. What purer distillations of musical understanding and fugal prowess might the world know if Beethoven had just a few more years? All of his late-period works are just so awe-inspiring.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

Yeah, I felt like my normal superlative adjective would be redundant since "grosse" is already in the title. Plus, shorter titles are less likely to get cut off on different viewing platforms.

[@rayancharafeddine4982]

Playing the Chaconne after the 4 movements of the 2nd partita absolutely doesn't trivialise it! They are all based on the same bass more or less! Edit: sorry for the punctuation, I am not actually angry haha

[@arthurgreene4567]

I love that you have a favorite note in the meno mosso section

[@felix699]

This kind of content is what we need more to appear on KZbin

[@ottovogel8191]

This is my comfort KZbin Video

[@harrietwetstone6902]

Poor amateur though I am, working out the Grosse Fugue (grossest fugue) not once but twice with different players is probably the most intensely satisfying chamber music experience I have had in all my years of studying chamber music. The experience was punctuated when a workshop coach began the first coaching session by commenting that she didn't know the piece very well and didn't like it. Mindboggling creativity wipes out such factors as 'like'or 'dislike'. Thank you Richard for sharing your work!

[@CanofSoda_]

50 minutes of auditory gold. Worth the wait!!

[@TheWindWaker333]

I completely agree about the "Intense Fuge #2" as you call it. I was of course completely baffled (in a good way) the first time I heard the Grosse Fuge but when I heard this section especially 31:25 - 31:45 it completely won me over. String Quartet No. 14 is my favorite work of Beethoven's but that moment in the Grosse Fuge is my favorite moment of his.

[@mjrbruckner9539]

He is back and ready to deliver. What a masterful analysis!

[@sergiomaia3029]

Absolute Genius! I asked you to do the Great Fugue a while ago, and did not know so many others asked for the same thing!

[@tamed4171]

What a great present, 50 minutes of brilliant analysis from one of my favorite musical youtubers

[@Hazju100]

Oh my gosh!!!!! What an astounding masterpiece. I'm talking about this video of course, the fugue goes without saying ;D I can't believe I've never found your channel before - I just binged your Mozart 41 and Eroica videos and then this popped up and - well, I am so grateful for what you are doing. You're not afraid to go into the nitty gritty details, and you communicate your passion for music so well...and like - I had hoped to go this in depth in upper level theory in undergrad, but alas. I am isolated among my friends for being a music theory nerd haha, so - thank you so much for this!!

[@diegoparra8178]

This is just great, it is impossible to thank you enough for the amount of work put into these amazing videos.

[@tabmoo]

The orange theme is simply the best music ever written. It is the perfection of one of musical ideas he was obsessed with in his late years. Ode to Joy is the same idea, for example. The other is the blue theme, you can find its variants in many late quartets, in Kyrie of Missa Solemnis etc.

[@afonsosalazar689]

Probably my favorite video on KZbin right now. Can’t stop rewatching.

[@beerserker196]

Thanks for helping us to understand this masterpiece. Thanks to you, now I'm totally overwhelmed by the final of the Intense Fugue #2, what a beautiful moment.

[@claricechen563]

Oh man, this is so complicated, I may need to watch this video many times. It's absolutely great, thank you so much for it.

[@Виталий-я4ъ9ю]

From a non-musician's perspective, I feel in this piece Beethoven "transforms" the somewhat abrasive original themes in such a way, so in the end they (as if naturally) shed their form and emerge in such blinding sparkle, it takes my breath away every time I hear it. Also, I can't understand, after years of listening to this piece, how on Earth a deaf man could create such a miracle.

[@anthonyehrenzweig7697]

Because he heard it in his head

[@julianmanjarres1998]

@@anthonyehrenzweig7697 yeah but how many can compose without being able to hear

[@Walexo45]

After writing sheets, listening passages on his piano for so many years, I wouldn't even need to listen to pieces at the end as he already knew how it would sound. It is in fact « music literature » technically.

[@DylanNaroff]

The Great Fugue’s palindrome-like structure is remarkable. It’s as if Beethoven is looking at himself in the mirror, grappling with the duality of life and death, on the verge of madness. One of the most satisfying endings in all of music! The technique of the “interruption” in m. 26, inspired by Albrechtsberger’s fugal treatise, is very intriguing, and for me, explains the organic transition from cavatina to the Great Fugue in a shocking, interruptive manner. I have always tended to favor the interpretation of Brentano, for they pulsate these repeated eighth notes with a sense of urgency, but Takács’ rendition is very emotionally satisfying. Thank you for your analysis. Wonderful. Just discovered your channel.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

I had a whole paragraph about the different articulations performers choose for the blue subject in the first fugue, but the video was already too long so I didn't include it!

[@rahymashirov5903]

@@Richard.Atkinson oh what a shame, I hope you will make a separate shorter video about it since I am (and sure a lot of other people are) really interested in different interpretations of this gargantua

[@orb3796]

I was so excited to have this video pop up in my notifications. Just finished watching it and I already recommended it to a composer friend of mine, I feel like a child on christmas showing off their new toy!

[@schubertuk]

My favourite fugue - by far. Love it to bits. Thank-you Richard.

[@620Ramsey]

That moment on the streets of New York ... I imagine a lot of us here have been there! Thank you for such a wonderful and heartfelt analysis. I love how you weave your personal experiences, musical associations and subjective opinions into the theoretical discussion. It's counterpoint, of a sort; these vids are works of art in themselves.

[@screweddevelopment12]

Your videos are great! Its like one of my theory profs made youtube videos. I’ve never heard this piece before but I love it. I’m using the end of 35:10 in the first violin phrase as a descending minor 7th mnemonic bc the way the first violin interrupts the sequential motion in the viola and 2nd violin is so glorious and memorable. Probably will watch again later to make sure I absorb everything you said.

[@florisheijdra6086]

Great video! I ordered the sheets to this fuge 2 weeks ago to analyse it during these times. You were just one step ahead and I do thank you for that :D

[@thisisaloadofbarnacles921]

You are amazing for doing this. The first time I heard this fugue I hated it, but when I listened to it again I liked it more, and now it may be my favorite piece. Thank you!

[@Geopholus]

I think the first time I heard Grosse Fugue, in my teens, and already familiar with Bach's unfinished Contrapuntis # 14, I was struck by both the similarity of the Bb A , C B (nat), & C# D series of "coupled" "ambiguously" chromatic 1/2 steps, of its theme, (Beeth different 1/2 step couplings but similar possibilities) and the complex development of so many possibilities contained in such a choice of theme. i also felt at that time that Beethoven's efforts were somewhat of a trainwreck. i commented to a friend, 'Well it IS Grosse". All these many years later, like say 50, I have been increasingly impressed with it's apparently increasing intelligence and profundity with each passing year. Now I tremble in its presence, in a GOD this is GOOD way! Thanks so much Richard for shining a beam from heaven on this difficult masterpiece. Great to hear those comments from other great Composers too.

[@lyricsronen]

Thank you for yet another amazing video. What a bizarre example of Beethoven's complete and utterly indisputable mastery. I think that in this piece, Beethoven is teaching the world that the temporal element of music can be extended and transformed just like any other compositional aspect. What a well worth hour of content!

[@gevenliu1931]

Thank you so much for the fantastic video! I burst into tears at the triumphant moment in second fugue 37:26

[@Richard.Atkinson]

It's such an overwhelming moment.

[@konigstephan]

Absolutely brilliant video - easily one of the best I've seen on YT. *Plenty* of information, emotion (passion!), entertainment. Wow!

[@nicolagiaquinto8496]

Classical music has always been a huge part of my life (I'm currently 22 and a full time concert pianist), so naturally I've listened to quite the amount of repertoire throughout my experience... I've always been kind of afraid to listen to this mysterious and (literally) bloody piece though. This video gave me the courage to listen to it for the first time in years and appreciate Beethoven's immense genius once again. Thank you for dedication and your will to shed light on classical music's most interesting and beautiful pearls! P.S. Glenn Gould has always been my biggest idol!

[@nathangale7702]

Glad to know that there are concert pianists who look to Gould as a master. I read comments of so many pianists who seem to just treat him as an interesting weirdo. Do you incorporate Gould’s philosophy of experimental repertoire performances?

[@vibratoqueen450]

I was so excited when I got the notification. The Takacs Quartet recording is my favorite, probably because I read their book...! :) Can't wait to watch!!!!

[@wodzimierzwosimieta2758]

Not only my favourite composer, favourite analyser but also my favourite performance of this fugue.

[@caterscarrots3407]

Finally! The video I have been waiting for. I've tried analyzing this fugue and after the third entry of the fugue exposition, it becomes a confusing sea of counterpoint for me.

[@dondondon786]

I see 48:07 less as "cutting room floor" material, than as a "retrospective montage" used by B. in other compositions, most famously at the end of the 9th symphony. In this case it also "bookends" the presentation of the germinal material at the very beginning.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

True, It brings back all 4 versions from the overtura, but in a different order (1, 2, 4, 3).

[@emilgilels]

@@Richard.Atkinson "1, 2, 4, 3" - mirroring the shape (if not the precise intervals) of the main fugal subject! ;-p

[@giobrach]

emilgilels That would be the Jupiter theme!

[@trocomposition4216]

This channel is sublime. Thank you, Richard.

[@katherinegfair]

I’ve spent the last few hours on my back porch going through your score study videos and eating popsicles. I miss being in symphony so much and your videos make it a little better :)

[@Richard.Atkinson]

That sounds delightful!

[@NN-df7hl]

Elemental and timeless, crucial, relentless, horrifying, heavenly, metaphysical, cosmic, more real than reality, shredding the veil, the blast of totality, the pulsation of all that has existed and will ever exist, every nightmare and every glory pressed into the service of the INFINITE...it really affects me! If I ever get another tattoo it will say: Opus 133. I don't fully understand it, but IT understands ME.

[@konradfernandez2922]

Richard this is easily the greatest analysis videos of the many outstanding ones you have shared with the world! And though I have always venerated Beethoven's late works and particularly the mind boggling fugue, your analysis opened my eyes even more to its dazzling complexity, sophistication, innovative genius and staggering degree of artistic synthesis! This work is truly without equal!

[@classicalmusicappreciation1479]

What a great, great analysis! I think that the double-octave leap of the beginning IS an actual thematic element: there are several cells (thematic and non-thematic) throughout the rest of the fugue that are closely similar to it, for example the triplet fragments of the second violin you talk about at 30:20 and also, and even more, the beginning of the variant of the main theme that is seen for the first time at 32:30. In these two points there is only one octave leap, but rhythmically they recall a lot the opening, and rhythm is what matters most I think. I believe Beethoven changed the opening in the 4-hand piano transcription because the piano cannot keep the sustained, tensed chord after the double leap: the chord needs to be changed into a tremolo because of how the piano works, and since before a tremolo the two fast grace notes would no longer stand out as they do before the chord, Beethoven decided to cut them.

[@rahymashirov5903]

Wow! What a day I experienced after clicking this video! My afternoon has been illuminated with this masterpiece of an analysis video. Kudos to you dear composer, music analyst and critic, wonderful human being. After I watched the video, I have read all 313 comments and I enjoyed all the discussion regarding this piece including the negative reviews. This piece is just amazing how different people perceive it very variably and also I respect the people who say it is ugly even though I strongly disagree with them. I think great masterpieces should provoke people in some sense or other (another great example is Rite of Spring, which is my all-time favorite composition together with Eroica Symphony). Richard, I really appreciate what you are doing here and please continue to illuminate our minds and souls with your masterful analyses of wonderful compositions!

[@lucaszavaluentie4855]

I first listened to this piece last year. At first, I did not understand it. I also thought it wasn’t that good. Then I started listening to it more and I don’t regret it. It’s one of the best fugues ever written if not the best.

[@kevinpfaff2301]

Beethoven shreds it. He inverts, inside out, upside down and does everything possible to the subjects.

[@DuoPetrof]

Excellent video and excellent channel. Our deep respect for your commitment to music and analysis.

[@marichristian1072]

So happy to finally see your heroic analysis the Grosse Fuge. I love this piece with an almost irrational enthusiasm. Thank you for your monumental analysis Mr. Atkinson.

[@MasonIshida]

At 35:59 that dominant pedal point. I can’t think of a more intense or “dissonant” section in all of Beethoven’s music. I love it. I can’t imagine what the premier audience’s reaction was to hearing it.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

8 and 9 measures after this (after K) is one of my favorite half-step dissonances between the two violins. Is this what you’re talking about, or the whole passage in general?

[@MasonIshida]

Richard Atkinson that is actually one of my favorite dissonances in the whole piece, but I was referring to the whole pedal point section as “the most tense section in all of Beethoven”. If you look at the harmonies there a all sorts of dissonant passing tones. Like the second measure after K, there is a tone cluster: Eb,D natural, and E natural. Awesome

[@pavlenikacevic4976]

If I were in that audience, I'd probably have thought that it's just an immensely difficult piece that sounded off because the players couldn't meet the technical demands... But on top of that, add the fact that it was very likely that they couldn't have played it nearly as well as the modern recordings (as it was a work of unprecedented difficulty), so it probably sounded even more chaotic than it's supposed to

[@derekdavid1]

A Triumph and a Masterpiece, my dear friend. Congratulations and Mazel Tov!!!! Loved every second of it!

[@Richard.Atkinson]

Wahoo!

[@donconde6570]

This is phenomenal. I thank the author of the video for this tremendous gift.

[@caterscarrots3407]

On the subject of the double octaves, I think I know why the piano arrangement does not include it, but the string quartet version does. If a pianist were to do the double octaves, it would be difficult *and* not as intense. Tremolos keep the intensity. In the string quartet, that isn’t a problem, so writing an octave passage with an octave of grace notes is more economic than the tremolos in the piano arrangement.

[@dianekolin]

I have always liked the Große Fuge, I love the Takács Quartet version, and I think you did a great job in your analysis. I am fond of your work. Thank you.

[@sdnikko8960]

Hey Richard, thanks for the awesome video. This piece kind of overwhelmed me before and now it's just more Beethoven being a genius and magician (and wonderfully strange at times). And btw your monotone voice is very relaxing and has a nice timbre.

[@thewalmer7942]

Yet another fantastic video! Missed you atkin.

[@dondondon786]

One more issue I'd have liked to see addressed is the question of the meaning of the tied eighth notes written instead quarters starting at the first allegro. I have read that they are intended to indicate some kind of bebung or voice cracking or warbling, but would like to see this discussed more in depth sometime.

[@koolkdny]

The argument about how to play the op. 130 quartet reminds me about the deal with Mahler's 6th's inner movements. I think that the scherzo coming first works better, which was Mahler's original intent, but Mahler later changed his mind about it.

[@dr7246]

Richard, I’m always utterly pleased when I see a new video posted- they’re always interesting and there’s some solidarity in finding (even if virtually) other people who know contrapuntal thinking is the highest form of musical thought! Though I utterly worship at the alter of JSB, and would love to see a video on the Confiteor/et Expecto (bwv 233), I do think you should pay some homage and attention to Josquin and Ockeghem. That said, keep up the great work!

[@gervaisfrykman266]

Did you spot that the two themes of Confiteor combine at two different pitch intervals? He does display it, but very discreetly.

[@Ideennot]

Thanks to your video, which I have now watched 4 times, the Große Fuge has become one of my favorite pieces of music of all time, and I don't usually listen to orchestral music that much.

[@claugarcis5315]

When I first herd this work in my life, 4 or 5 years ago (I am 67 now), I was far well impresed by it. Now because of your careful study on it, It lakes me to a much better understanting of it's greatness. Thankyou for shearing.

[@churebecca9440]

I happen to notice a Weibo account post your videos, this one and the one about most beautiful passages of Beethoven symphonies (they added Chinese subtitles) but they didn’t credit them to you. I’m glad they made quality contents on KZbin like this available to classical music lovers in Mainland China, but I really hope they did ask for your permission or at least mentioned you in the description.

[@Richard.Atkinson]

Hmm... I did give people permission to translate my videos into Mandarin, but if they are not giving me credit, that's a little annoying.

[@jocoenen2939]

Very well done. Thanks. As a beautiful detail I would like to add that the cello's pedal tone in the meno mosso of the Overtura may be considered as well to be the very first note of the subject as given in the first bar. In 6'50" you say that the subject starts with the next half note. This is certainly possible but I think that Beethoven rather starts here with the octave imitation, to create a divine timeless-ness at this spot in which all things coincide in a simultaneous way, rather than chronologically ordered.

[@mariofattori6526]

Thank you for giving us the keys to open such a treasure coffer.

[@JonnyboyCalippo]

To make it right to the chase: Thank you for your great work! I really enjoyed it. Another interesting observation: Beethoven started the Ouvertura and the first bars of the official last movement of Op. 130 with a g-octave; the Ouvertura starts (theoretically, because it never really appears as a chord) in g-major due to the accidental of one sharp, and in the finale of op. 130 it is developed into an arpeggiated G-major7 chord in the first violin (39:22). The effect both beginnings of the pieces create becomes clearer when they are connected to the fifth movement of op. 130 in E-flat major: G-major is the dominant of the parallel key of E-flat major; so both pieces (Große Fuge and finale of op. 130) seem to cut off the dreamingly fifth movement of op. 130 by indicating to transform to c-minor. This is just a speculation by myself, perhaps it might be overvalued. But I somehow don't believe that both pieces that were intended to be the final movement of op. 130 start with a similar harmonic idea in the first bars randomly... Best regards from Germany and thank you so much for this great analysis!

[@Richard.Atkinson]

Yes, very true. Also, the Cavatina ends on a G (in the melody, even though it's an E-flat major chord), so it makes sense that both finales continue the common tone.

[@maximilianogavilan3008]

Thank you! Reminds me of Vicente Huidobro's poem "Altazor o el viaje en paracaidas", exploring the possibilities of language. Beautiful

[@ivanmakhalin1635]

Thank you, Richard! I really am filled with joy! Love your videos

[@jorgeaguirre7260]

When a stroke of genius, is taken beyond all boundaries and it just seem madness. Thanks Richard for posting. Amazing job!

[@billguyan9626]

Some things seem to be madness because they're incomprehensible.