Denon AVR-X6800H vs Marantz Cinema 30 - Inhouse Review - Sound Comparison

[@dragonstone6594]

Saying you go above and beyond with your reviews will be an understatement.

[@gurjantm]

Wooooo wee! I have been waiting for this one!

[@nickmaddalena985]

Thanks Jon, Love how you explained how you listened and compared this time around! Great content!

[@FURognar]

Glad to see the X6800H in Tier-1. Thats the one I'm planning to get. It checks all the boxes and is $1000 cheaper than the Cinema 30 so thats my choice.

[@whoawhat09]

Its over priced but so is the cinema 30.

[@ripewave]

I think it is a great option - especially if you are using front wide speakers or 5/6 height speakers. -Jon

[@FURognar]

@@whoawhat09 I think the X6800H is right where it needs to be based on its capabilities. It would be nice if it was cheaper (the X6700H is a great bargain right now) but the Sony 7000ES which is its closest competitor is right around the same price.

[@michaelburton5198]

​@@ripewave, Hey 👋 My Guy, If You Was Starting Your Home Theater Set Up ( This Going Off Of The Previous ReViews Of The Recent Products) And MONEY 💰 Not A Problem, Then What Avr Receiver Or Pre Processor And Power Amplifier Would You Get?????

[@bearclaw5115]

Excellent comparison video. Very surprised to see the frequency response curves. I have the Marantz 7015 and 8015 (Cinema 40 and 30 minus a few features). There is a clear difference between them. The 8015 has much better definition and better channel separation. It's bigger and bolder and gets you Auro 13.1. The 8015 sounds as good as a $1,000 stereo amp but it powers 11 channels and processes 13. Right now they are on close out for $2,500 maybe less. The Cinema 30 is a smidge better but if you can live without Dirac I'd take the 8015 on sale all day long and spend the difference on quality speakers. I guess what I'm saying is save up, buy quality pieces only at great discounts, continually refine your system and you'll end up with a home experience that puts commercial theaters to shame. And of course stay tuned in to Ripewave Audio to help you figure it all out!

[@jamesmorse6486]

I own a Denon AVR-X4800H and the Marantz SR8015. Both use separate amplifier boards for each channel. The Denon had a bold and forward presentation. The Marantz seemed more laid back. Of course, this is a subjective listening test using my uncalibrated ears. I think the dog also farted while I was listening thus smearing the audio signal traveling from my left speaker to my left ear. To your point, I agree, if you can get your hands on the SR8015 then go for it and spend the extra cash on better speakers or room treatments. Unless you must have Dirac and/or 4 subs then the SR8015 is the better way to go. You can get pretty good results using the $20 Audyssey mobile app. It just takes a bit more work than Dirac but frees up $$ for other home theater improvements.

[@Kilosierrabravo]

Thx so much - exactly the content we desperately want when choosing and you are unique for it. I’m struggling to understand how the measured response doesn’t translate to your listening though - what would account for the cinema 50 being tier 3 when its output and distortion are the same or better as tier 1? I so want to use your tier chart but can’t wrap my head around how the chart and the measurements diverge? What could be missing from your measurements that explains this. Thx so much!

[@ripewave]

I am struggling with the same. There has to be more to explain then I have discovered so far. -Jon

[@Kilosierrabravo]

Dare I ask….Did you do happen to do any blind switching or were you always aware what you were listening to - I have no doubt whatsoever you are as transparent and honest as you possibly can be but expectation bias is a pig sometimes?

[@ripewave]

I agree that it is easy to be bias without knowing. I have my kids move the switch randomly. Lots of “are you sure that’s A” when the results don’t make sense. -Jon

[@Kilosierrabravo]

@@ripewave brilliant- very pleased to learn that! Thx again!

[@VanDammage87]

Never really considered start-up times. Very interesting comparison.

[@ripewave]

I started doing that for those who are concerned about power consumption in standby mode. They want to lower down completely but don’t want to wait for the unit to come back online.

[@thezone4957]

Hi Jon, For the listening test toward the end, what DAC filter setting did you have selected on the Cinema 30, was it the Filter 1 (The Marantz Sound) or Filter 2 ( the Bench Test flat-filter)?

[@ekkojohn]

Jon, great review again. Curious if you still compare these new units to the RMC-1? And, after having it for over a year, have you experienced any bugs or nagging issues with it?

[@HS-ed3dz]

Excellent review. Only by reading the comments have I learned that all tests were done using external power amps. I prefer that actually as that's how I would use any of these products, at least for LCR anyway. Would be great if you reviewed one of the flagships ie A1H or AV10. Thanks

[@BoBxPaiN]

Do you think the cinema 30 sound better than anthem avm 70? Interesting!

[@ripewave]

Yes - slightly

[@gregwillis4001]

Have you considered an additional comparison using your outboard amps, using the receivers as a processor only?

[@ripewave]

The comparison I just performed was exactly that. Perhaps I neglected to mention - I was so focused on the results. I use 100% external amplification in my reviews as my default approach. -Jon

[@tinchohvideos]

Hi Jhon, In what position number is the Marantz sr8015 located on the spacious-rich-confined-thin chart? Same green position as Cinema 30?

[@ripewave]

Good question. As I began these test only two years ago, I didn’t test the prior generation (SR8015). Perhaps someone here can weigh in with direct knowledge. -Jon

[@Shimrra_Jamaane]

Great breakdown as always. Does the graph of tiers for AVRs measure it using room correction software or without? So are both the Cinema 30 and 6800h using Dirac for instance?

[@ripewave]

I measured without Dirac or Audyssey enabled. That removed potential for configuration/ calibration errors to ensure conditions were as similar as possible. -Jon

[@Riv359]

Great video. Where do you think the Integra drx-8.4 would place on your list?

[@bfilgate]

Thanks for the great content! I have a Marantz Cinema 30 on order replacing a Marantz SR6012 - do you think using it with an Emotiva external amp is a good idea vs the Cinema 30 internal amps? Assuming so - for a 5.2.6 setup with new Martin Logan 4 ohm XM motion LCR and the rest 8 ohm DefTech - would you get a 3 channel XPA DR-3 for LCR channels and use the Cinema 30 amp for the rest of the channels (and maybe get an Emotova XPA amp for the rest later) - or get an XPA-11 for all Chanels (with higher power channels used for LCR). Cost is about the same for those two options. You have experience with both the Cinema 30 and the Emotiva external amps so your thought would be very helpful in making a decision - and I expect a specific question like this might be very helpful to others.

[@ripewave]

So for the late reply. Getting caught up this week. Hopefully you are now enjoying your Cinema 30. With hard to drive speakers, the external amplifiers help - especially for the front stage. Using the Emotiva XPA-DR3 is a good option for that. With those addressed, the internal channels can satisfy the surrounds and heights just fine in most cases. I would go XPA-DR3 for LCR instead of the XPA-11, but the other is fine too. Did you make a decision yet? -Jon

[@geraldhilderink5686]

Nice video. Thanks. But but I miss the sound comparison? For example, what does HDAM SA-2 do to the sound quality? I don’t care much about the frequency analysis, although it pictures some performance, it doesn’t entirely picture sound quality. How does the C30 perform at 2 ohms impedance? There must be a reason why the C30 is more expensive than the X6800H.

[@ripewave]

This was made as a straight sound comparison using a subjective listening test and measurements. Yes, the Cinema 30 sounded a little better then the Denon AVR-X6800H, but $1000 better. Maybe $100 better. As the HDAM SA-2 is within the pre-amplifier stage there is no way to turn it on/off to isolate the impact of that technology alone. The overall differences are marginal. So I would say it helps - a little. Jon

[@markgaliano2674]

Thanks Jon, I have a older Marantz and do prefer the warmer sound, interesting that you found lower distortion with the HDAM circuitry in contrast to other reviews.

[@ripewave]

Did some reviewers say the HDAM technology added distortion?

[@truwarrior22]

I think you’re right that different genres may make the differences more noticeable. I could not get say punk rock to sound good on my SR8015, no issues with Arcam AV40. Sound like I feel it should.

[@ripewave]

I feel it is those instances where a processor or receiver is able to make a recording sparkle while the others sound flat in comparison that can justify the purchase. Maybe for 80-90% of content the other models do just fine, but I would miss what it adds to the last 10-20%. -Jon

[@עמיתטובי-ז1כ]

It would b interesting 2 compare the sound quality between the Yamaha to nad and audio control ..I know they both sound great..specially in home theater

[@ripewave]

I have yet to review a NAD product. If they come out with a new model, it would be worth exploring. -Jon

[@jzenone]

Just wonder you prefer between denon 6800h vs arcam Avr11. Arc can is on sale for 2k and I can get a refurbished 6800h from factory for 1600. I was in Best Buy and that was when I was introduced to arcam. We played music and movies between the 2 and the arcam sounded worlds better to both my wife and I. Don’t know if they applied any room correction to the arcam or it was the Dolby volume from the arcam or what but the arcam sounded good, what are your thoughts. Denon has 140 wpc and the arcam 80wpc what gives ??

[@shayp8292]

So when you turn the tv on the Arcam takes 36s to start? So no sound for that long?

[@ripewave]

Correct - power up takes that long before the interface responds. -Jon

[@vitomirvidakovic]

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the Denon AVR-X3800H in preamp mode vs the Anthem AVM 70

[@ripewave]

I reviewed the Anthem AVM last year just before I reviewed the Denon AVR-X3800H, but not at the same time. Sound comparison charts represent both as much as possible without having both in the room at the same time. This is accomplished by having two permanent points of reference - the Emotiva RMC-1 and Marantz Cinema 50. -Jon

[@stevelivingstone3495]

Not even the same class of product. 3800h would match up to the mrx 740. anthem would still beat it.

[@randolphsettgast12]

Is it the preamp/processor or amplifier that determines where a product lands on the chart? So if you run the LR from a 6800 through a nice 2channel power amp, does that change the sound characteristics?

[@williamhicks2763]

It would be great to know if the preamp stage is different in the Marantz models but, boy, that would take a lot of testing. If the amplifiers are the main difference then the 70S with external amplification might be the best value with the same sound quality.

[@ripewave]

The tests were performed only with pre-out to external amplifiers. I wish I mentioned. I usually do. -Jon

[@randolphsettgast12]

@@ripewave Oh. Wait. So the placement on the chart doesn't reflect the sound coming out of the AVR amp? If are always running the AVR as a pre-amp, what power amp are you using? thanks again!! btw...the chart I am referring to is your confined/spacious vs rich/thin plot.

[@Professor5180]

I think the x6800h is the right choice. Being $1000 cheaper. But also, I'm sure you may see a discount on Crutchfield around black friday on Denon receivers. That'll be even more savings. Also, you have to factor in the DIRAC bundle cost that stays with the receiver and can't be transferred. This is what makes the choice difficult because you have to sort of marry your receiver.

[@ripewave]

Yes - wait for sales and be careful about the added cost for Dirac and consider the total cost of ownership. -Jon

[@tnargs57]

@Ripewave_Audio you may have overlooked the reason for the distortion level differences: it was simply because the SPL levels were different. The louder it was playing, the more the (loudspeakers) distorted.

[@hobbylover3882]

I will pick Marantz Cinema 30. One of the reasons, the use of torodial transformer and use of copper parts like screws and internal components. Plus 50/50 Music/Movie choice.

[@ripewave]

I do feel that the Marantz offers a bit more. My choice as well. -Jon

[@1514134]

Dear John, it would be awesome to see how the DAC Filter Setting 2 would compare in measurements. I think it is on page 192 in the manual, at least in Germany 😄

[@ddcrocky3831]

Would the denon 8500ha sound good as they replaced the dacs with something inferior

[@mcpfrid73]

It would be nice to see the comparisons with Dirac ART implemented. Where are you ART🤷‍♂️

[@ripewave]

I am only aware of Dirac ART being supported by Storm Audio at this time. We are monitoring other brands but haven’t heard of anything strong commitments yet. Monoprice has spoke of adding, but them have other pending commitments which have lingered for over a year. -Jon

[@1Aquadon]

Thanks Jon!

[@AlexReusch]

I get the distortion, but how do you compare the sound quality from listening, if the Emotiva is a processor without any amps? Which means final sound quality is dependend on the connected amps.

[@ripewave]

I configured the Denon as a processor with all channels in pre-out mode. Yes - The final sound is dependent on the connected amps, speakers and room. -Jon

[@familiekruit6068]

The distortion on Marantz receiver is a feature. It's called HDAM.

[@docdude]

Nice graph comparing different AVR/AVP for sound quality. Can you please make a similar graph / table for user experience considering bugs / ease of setup / user interface / software features etc. So that one can make decisions based on user experience. Like I’ve seen rave reviews for ARCAM sound quality but similar reviews regarding buggy software which ruins the experience. So it’ll be helpful to make balanced decision based on Sound quality & user experience. Thank you.

[@DavidCNavas]

"but we do it anyway" -- lol, nice, and I thank you for it.

[@ripewave]

You caught that one. I usually try to be more diplomatic. Sometimes I just decide to move forward with what I feel is right. I am not already right. -Jon

[@DavidCNavas]

@@ripewave Yeah -- honestly I'd prefer to just have separates, but those are so often (unnecessarily imho) more expensive, so I appreciate the cross-comparison. Thanks also for the warmup time -- another thing that's useful is the standby W (though usually I can find that on-line). Not everyone is sitting in PG&E land where a kilowatt is half a buck, but for those of us that are, the tradeoff between time-to-active vs $$/day drain is real :| Hadn't known the Denon is 10s. I'll have to go retest my older Denon -- it feels slowish, but not quite that bad.

[@ripewave]

I have the standby and operational power consumption values in part 1 of each series. However, it would be good to also include on the power up slide for easy reference. -Jon

[@DavidCNavas]

As a follow-up -- my old Denon (3313ci) had an 8.5s warmup. Obviously not entirely comparable, but I note it for anyone who might later be interested.

[@edwinfoyx4]

Does Denon need these steel u connectors.

[@ripewave]

Not sure I know what steel u connector you are referring to. My best guess are the u connectors sometimes found on receivers to bridge pre-in and main-out terminals when not used with external pre-amplifiers (pre-in) or amplifiers (main-out). If that is the question, then those connectors are not utilized. -Jon

[@michaelratner8890]

Curious why you didn't have someone else flip between the A-B-C switches randomly so that it would be a (much more valid) blind test?

[@ripewave]

I have my kids move the switch. But I don’t talk about them in the videos - Jon

[@michaelratner8890]

@@ripewave so do they move the switch at random? Is it a true blind test?

[@ripewave]

Yes

[@michaelratner8890]

@@ripewave that’s great! You should mention that.

[@عبرالرحمنسعود]

Hi.. When will the next update be released for the avr-x3800h device.. to support 360 reality audio??. Please respond to me 🙏🙏

[@warrenmullett]

Let’s go ! 😊

[@stevelivingstone3495]

He should have placed them up to the anthem mrx 1140 and the integra drx 8.4 to give it a real test.

[@ripewave]

I have tested the Integra DRX-8.4 previously against my two in in-house references, the Marantz Cinema 50 and Emotiva RMC-1 which give me a benchmark to follow even though I no longer have the Integra. The Cinema 30 and Denon AVR-X6800h were slightly better, but not enough to really notice. I also had the Anthem AVM 70 8K conducted in the same manner. It was closer to the top as depicted in the chart with all 14 models - all tested in house. -Jon

[@AntonioPenja]

I have found that, Nad, Arcam, Marantz, Anthem and Onkyo is better for stereo music than Denon. It seems to me that these brands have been made for stereo music as well, where as Denon put stereo music in their product just because they had to. The Emotiva never did it for me.

[@Music.Movies.67]

From my experience Arcam make the best sounding amps l have found

[@kevinhoronzy6011]

Chesky Records ultimate record cd. Would be nice if u commented / listened in two channel too.

[@ripewave]

I agree - I will do more of that. Albeit, I do all most of my comparisons in two channel mode. I should acquire some Chesky material. I understand they are all well executed. -Jon

[@bfilgate]

Thanks!

[@ripewave]

Thank you so much - that donation helps me continue. -Jon

[@jantheuer8717]

Denon presents a new AV amplifier: 11 channels, power 205W

[@FNGyoutube]

I think Marantz Cinema 30 should be compared with Denon AVC-X8500HA

[@juve7]

Features don't matter, if the sound is off, im not interested...lol...🙏.

[@bigjack79]

I may have missed it but was this test done with dac filter 2 on the marantz? It essentially has no color added with filter 2.

[@ripewave]

I just learned something. Thanks for mentioning. I will have to remeasure with DAC 2. I didn’t change the default of DAC 1. I wish I know about that ahead of this video. Thanks again. -Jon

[@bigjack79]

@@ripewave no problem. There is a tread on audio science review where Amir measured the difference between the 2 modes. I believe it mostly in the higher frequencies. So it may not be too material.

[@ripewave]

Yes - they get into the fine details. Did they prefer DAC 2?

[@bigjack79]

@@ripewave yes. Since most of them are purists. I have an av10 and I use dac 2. I much rather apply a house curve to the natural response of the room and speaker with Dirac.

[@ranakirti]

im ready.....

[@morganmoren4467]

Don’t use Audyssey!-you takeaway all the 3D sound.Just make crossover,distance and make the testtone to balance every speaker-then you have the best sound!

[@morganmoren4467]

I have a Denon 4800H just as a preamp.And use Rotel 1585 to FL,center,FR and 2sub.Atmos and surround on 3 other same amp (6 channel).And 4k player (Panasonic ub 9000.B&W dm 600 serie.In a small room.

[@LEMON48]

6800H for 3500 $ 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 weak trafo , only 17 kg , 16 cm h , old 8500HA is almost similar in price but his power , weight etc .Making 6800H worth max 2500$ !!!!!!!

[@lostalx]

Yea and A6A Yamaha weighs at 40Lbs at $2500 with almost all features as A8A. I'll probably get Yamaha since Denon Marantz want $5000+ for ESS. Otherwise cheap outdated TI DACs. Yamaha RX A4A also has ESS. But not 9026Pro but 9007ES or something still better than garbage TI DACs.

[@jeanpaulceulemans9973]

​@@lostalxyamaha uses low grade ESS dacs and more importantly, in voltage mode instead of the much better current mode like high end AV units do The type of dac chips which is usually less than 10$ a piece is only a small part of the performance. The circuitry around the dac is the more costly part and more important to the end result