Design vs Lore The Imperial Fists

[@RuneGM]

Crimson fists mentioned we are so back

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Well I think that they are very well designed but I did stuff up it's both hands not one hand that are red I have no idea why I said that in retrospect - Cal

[@MrFiremagnet]

​@@WhatareyouPaintingnowthey used to have lore and codex art with only one red fist, so it's more of GW art department fault than yours.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

@@MrFiremagnet Thanks for that now I don't feel as crazy as I did before - Cal

[@charleswatson2605]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow only veterans have both fists red. Also it's not really a reference to the pain gloves, which would be interesting, rather it's just in their final test they must slay some fearsome beast and plunge their fist into its heart.

[@ShockArcl1te]

The historical connections are always interesting to me! Like hearing what music your favorite musicians listened to growing up. There's influences, but clearly defined from one another.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Yeah it was really interesting investigating these guys because usually Sunny immediately identifies the cultural influences but, it didn't come out as quickly here - Cal

[@jackflashman3322]

I didn't expect Golden Boy references in a WAYPN IF video, but I'm here for it.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Yeah we actually love golden boy and a lot of older anime should we include more older anime references? Golden boy is one of Sunny's favorites ☺ - Cal

[@beanbag627]

I recently found your channel and I have to say your channel is so underrated. I just binged the majority of your videos and love the content.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I am so glad to hear that! This must mean we are doing something right! Hopefully we can live up to your expectations - Cal

[@MrFiremagnet]

I think that they are a Holy Roman Empire reference, and yellow color is one of the main heraldic colors. Or at least they grew into being that reference, the way I see it - more leaning into germanic part of it. Before that leaning I have always thought that they have something of an identity crisis situation going on. Some elements seem to be Russia-coded, but not quite that strong (Romanov royal family had black, yellow and white flag). Black Templars, which are basically teutonic knights in space, inforce germanic connection even more. At the same, Crimson Fists have mostly Spanish-sounding names, which is very curious for me. Overall Sunny made a decent job, yellow boys are one of the least standing out chapters. For some time, their whole schtick was the fact that they are so pedantic and strict in following the Codex that they even put Ultramarines to shame.

[@easonyeung2779]

The Crimson Fists having Spanish names could be a reference to the Habsburg Dynasty, who became intimately involved in the politics of the HRE and much of the rest of Continental Europe. The Russia thing could be coincidental when it comes to the Fists because the Imperium is basically Space Russia to begin with, in addition to being the Space HRE. Both the Imperium and Russia are powers that control vast swathes of territory that are so large that even their massive militaries aren't enough to properly control all their holdings. They both have double headed eagles as their main icons. They both are heavily regionalized/decentralized despite a heavy-handed central government due to the sheer span of territory. And their military apparatus is heavily focused on tank and artillery-based doctrine, with forces being divided on political grounds.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Well to be fair they did have their whole chapter wiped at so doing that is going to take away a lot of the flavour - Cal

[@DrStraynj]

KZbin has blessed me with a great recommendation today. A thought occurred, could the heavy use of yellow be a connection to construction equipment? It is a prominent and traditional color for that and matches the engineering and fortifying aspect of the fist.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I think it can be connected to heavy machinery it is possible and we have talked about that in our colour psychology videos. There yellow seems a lot bolder than that of the caterpillar machines though so I think that's why we didn't mention it. Glad you felt that it was a good recommendation please enjoy some of our other videos - Cal

[@jimminey-fooking-cricket4903]

Couple of things, the eagle and lighting bolts denote the unification wars on Terra. The Crimson Fist got their name because of their chapter master who lost a hand fighting the Iron Warriors a phall and instead of having a bionic fitted instead opted for a cloned/regenerated hand. The Exccoriaters are an IF successors with a black and white colour scheme, they also suffer from a moras that has their Marines succumb to a deep depression.

[@ted_splitter]

The one huge blind spot you missed: black and yellow throughout the natural world denotes danger. Wasps, poison arrow frogs, black mamba snakes, bees, so many examples. Hazard stripes. Yellow is hopeful. But yellow with black means danger.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

@@ted_splitter we have talked on that before in the iron warriors video... It's hard deciding what to talk about because time is a thing and we want respect people's time but perhaps we should have included it again - Cal

[@MrTrenttness]

🔥🎸🔥 I feel like I'm being newly introduced to a chapter when I listen to these. ❤

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Glad you are enjoying them - Cal

[@WarmasterPainting]

Really enjoy your guys take on each of the Legions. Great series of videos.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Thank you very much I am glad you're still enjoying them - Cal

[@Mikazuchireborn]

The Thunderbolts and Eagle are old symbols of the Emperor that started falling out use during the crusade and are almost completely gone by present 40k. It's been replaced by the twin-headed eagle to represent the joining between Terra and Mars. Even before the Great Crusade, there were people talking about replacing the symbol because it doesn't represent unity and prosperity (something about how the Eagle being a predator that only builds its own nest, and while lightning represent destruction)

[@vicnedel02]

Hi guys. I tried to tell you about the pteruges last time. Your pronunciation is much better this time. In English the P is often silent but its OK to try to pronounce the "P" at the beginning because that way it sounds more authentic to the original Greek pronunciation. Please don't give up, Greek is a hard language to master but its ultimately very rewarding because a lot of strange and sophisticated words come from the language. You're doing great. I like listening to your analysis. You're both very intelligent people and it shows.

[@winter9716]

It’s worth noting as well a possible huge reason you don’t see as much cultural stuff, at least post heresy in conjunction with the extinction and revival of the legion, is that The Fists don’t have a centralized people or planet that they exclusively recruit from. Imperial fists have over a dozen tithing worlds they recruit from that could contain anything from brutal tribesmen to the children of gangers and nobles.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Fair point - Cal

[@jollop]

I noticed at the last second before you moved on to the next section that the post-heresy terminator had crenelations on his boots. Reminds me of a rook again.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Hmmm seems you are right it comes up a fair amount - Cal

[@UntestedGaming]

Yellow with black trim and red fists is what i want to use for a Dornian Heresy traitor Imperial Fists force.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Is Dornian the one where they wrote it all out with like codex entries and everything? - Cal

[@UntestedGaming]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow pretty much. I know there's a whole wiki dedicated to it that I journey back to on occasion

[@11679MRT]

Fists/Templars are my favorite! :)

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Hope you enjoyed the episode - Cal

[@charleswatson2605]

So what we missed in some the accent colors is rank or company designation. Red helmets are sergeants. Red trim on the shoulder pad is the company designation (5th I think)

[@SWATDRUMMUH]

The next Legion is going to get spooky!

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Indeed I know a lot of people have been waiting for it - Cal

[@PopeJrod]

I think that the pain glove/pain focus is about demonstrating endurance. These are the builders of fortresses and manning the walls. They are about holding ground to the last marine.

[@piotrjeske4599]

Raptor Imperialis . The "hawk" with the bolts.

[@Dominik189]

I'd love to hear an analysis of The Salamanders. It would be quite interesting.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

We will get there, next is the 8th legion and we plan to go in order - Cal

[@Dominik189]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow oof, that's gonna be a long wait then, being that Salamanders are the 18th. But it's a wait I'll happily wait.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

@@Dominik189 We will get there... hopefully - Cal

[@simonbirch5726]

19:40 - you’re totally right the whole pain thing is totally missed in their design. One of their 2nd founding successor chapters however, the excoriators, really embody that aspect of the imperial fist and it shows heavily in their design/culture. Shame it isn’t necessarily representative in their parent chapter thought. Great video as always!

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Thank you very much we have been exploring the successor chapters a bit in these but not too much because if we keep going we will get to them eventually - Cal

[@Caleb-zs8is]

Amazing video.❤ However, I think that the yellow color scheme fits them not just since it's iconic but it also shows that they are the opposites of the iron warriors. While the iron warriors have black with strips of yellow, the Imperial fists have yellow with black trimming. Also you have to think about where they would be. The iron warriors would be laying seige so having dark armor would help them blend in and might make them almost unseen, especially in a era where battles can produce a lot of smoke and can last for days and nights. The Imperial fists fortify and so there's not much of a reason to have a non bright color scheme such as grey or black, because what's the point if you're main strategy is to hold the line. Take the ultramarines or the blood angels. They don't have any specific roles like the iron warriors or the night lords, they are meant to be frontline soldiers and so they have bright color schemes that stick out. These are just my thoughts, thanks for the video it was really well put together and fun to watch.

[@BrunoWolfMetal]

really weird having a part of a newspaper in portuguese talking about german socialists on the background and something about Italy

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

That is part of a generic set of backgrounds for Wondershare Filmora the program Sunny uses to edit these together, it has become our default for this series does it say anything enough that we should be concerned? Honestly I thought it was another version of Lorem Ipsum - Cal

[@miguelperez9906]

I’m glad that they are foucessing in the ore primarch as well I wonder how the blood angels abd world eaters are going to be seen by her

[@UntestedGaming]

Next 2 design vs lore videos are about to be spicy lol

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Nah I don't see why... I mean sure jaywalking is a crime but not like a crime crime - Cal

[@zachsilby4569]

Just as I'm starting to paint my Marines pile of shame as Fists. Based, love your videos and love Imperial Fists videos

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Thanks for the support 😌 I hope we helped get some paint on that plastic - Cal

[@artycharr]

"JIMMY SPACE THERE ARE SOME THINGS YA DONT CYLON!"

[@speaktome4778]

This might be more of a question for Imperial Fists fans, but are their colors supposed to be the inverse of Iron Warriors? Dark almost black gray with some yellow stripes vs yellow with some black accents? If that rivalry is what GW had in mind it might further explain their color scheme (and make a redesign all the more difficult).

[@Jfk2Mr]

That's something I haven't thought of... Though I think the direction of IW was to be more of unpainted, dark steel (though it likely would still be a some sort of coating) than dark grey

[@speaktome4778]

@@Jfk2Mr Yeah I just meant that based on color theory it would read as a color close to black and the color schemes of IW and IF would be the opposite of each other just like their roles were opposites. Almost like they were meant to be rivals. Of course the IF yellow and black might be something even more on the nose like "construction vehicles go brrrrrrr!"

[@Tremezy]

That's actually a fantastic point, I haven't thought of it like that before :D

[@charleswatson2605]

I don't think it's that overt, I think they didn't have a main chapter that was yellow yet. They had 2 green, 2 black, 2 blue (if you consider Space Wolves as a blue) and 1 red and 1 white.

[@miguelperez9906]

The guys who canonically eat poop they are a chapter of doofus Jerry

[@vlad78th]

I have a disagreement about the pain element. Fists do not seek pain as an educational tool, it's more about enduring pain. The abilty to withstand pain is a required element in all recruits. And it is shown in the battered look of the legion. The Imperial fists do not flinch not retreat they hold no matter how hard and painful it is. See the Iron warriors as hard and yet feeble because they can break. Fists are made of stone and steel. They do not break under pain no matter what. And sometimes it is their undoing because they seldom accept losing.

[@charleswatson2605]

the pain glove can be used as a punishment. And the "educational" setting is more for reinforcement I guess.

[@redspec01]

Yay Waypn! I know the channel focuses on 40K, but I was curious what the team would suggest to improve/paint the SW Legion stormtrooper model kit to make them more board attractive.

[@Jfk2Mr]

Depends how you want them to be - classical white bucketheads or in camo? But regardless, your friend will be diluted black (or grey, if going for white) wash (to make it stain less when not in recess), followed by base colour to keep places outside recesses lighter

[@redspec01]

@@Jfk2Mr thanks for the quick reply! I was wanting some artistic input on how they could be painted/modeled differently for the tabletop and yet still be Star Wars stormtroopers.

[@easonyeung2779]

​@redspec01 If you want classic stormtroopers, a recommendation I could make is that when painting them, don't start off with base coating white, start with a light gray, and gradually build up to white. Painting miniatures often involves highlighting work and it's effectively impossible to highlight pure white because you can't get lighter than pure white. Light gray paints will probably also be easier to work with as white acrylic paint is notorious for how thin the pigment is and how it clumps up because it's difficult to make a safe white paint without using titanium oxide as the pigment.

[@redspec01]

@@easonyeung2779 thanks for the reply! I am actually looking for something different, how can we make stormtrooper models look great/better/different and still look like part of the Star Wars universe?

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

It is very hard to redesign something when it is very iconic. So take this episode for example we suggested not changing their colour despite it being hard to paint and despite it not fitting their colour psychology at all! But it's ironically theirs. With all of that in mind I think the most important thing to change with the storm troopers is contrast of kind. This means a contrast between materials. Currently the storm troopers at almost all white. White isn't the best colour to work with for multiple reasons. However if you have an increased area of that matt black and bulk the white armour with an accentuated gloss I think that is how I would go for it. That being said I wouldn't change the storm troopers at all they are iconic and they don't need to be changed - Cal

[@Jfk2Mr]

Ah, that part about HRE. As someone said (can't remember who exactly), it wasn't holy, nor Roman and (for quite a period) it wasn't an empire either. Though it's a bit funny, because it was a bit of "we have Roman empire at home" to, along Papacy, be counterweight to Byzantium aka (Eastern) Roman Empire. PS. SIEGE! FORTIFY! SIEGE! FORTIFY!

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Ha yeah I heard that one before but I think technically on the last bit his wrong that it wasn't an empire but if you don't do that the jokes don't work. And yes I thought we would be one of the few people to not use the TTS meme when talking about the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors - Cal

[@kyle857]

Voltaire

[@Sonof_DRN2004]

16:16 I wouldn’t say it was an Italian empire. The sear of power was in Prague. Although maybe it changed from time to time, depending on the family who controlled it, I’m assuming Austria was the ‘capital’ when the Hapsburgs controlled it.

[@Jfk2Mr]

It was more complicated - current day Aachen was the nominal capital for good chunk of its existence, but practically, it depended who was the emperor - when Luxembourgs were, Prague was the capital, when Habsburgs came to power, capital moved to Vienna

[@Sonof_DRN2004]

@@Jfk2Mr shit ye that’s what u meant, I know Austria is a country lol

[@obunginator974]

i had my suspicions when they called a breacher a "defender role" and compared it to the SWAT. saying firstborn and primaris were the same Was the final nail..

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

@@obunginator974 what suspicions? About what? - Cal

[@obunginator974]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow About the apparent lack of knowledge about space marines.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

@@obunginator974 Uhhh... I am not sure you are following along, but that is the part that Sunny plays, she plays the part of the person who knows nothing about the faction. Then I tell her the lore, I don't interrupt her because we have a whole section for the lore. As for them being the same, she is talking about design wise, colour choice and so on. She is talking about how style wise they have no visible differences. - Cal

[@myonlyfriendtheend4958]

praise be to the butter bois

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

@@myonlyfriendtheend4958 oh no I have not heard that one before 🙀 😂🤣😂 - Cal

[@dirkgaffron5456]

The marine with the fist on the forehead is not primaris. Thats a mark 8 power armour. Its to bulky for mark 10

[@Tremezy]

Im shocked that neither one of you mentioned anything about the primaris design having red trim on their pouldrons. Yellow and red, with these red arches REALLY makes me think of McDonalds. To me these are the quintessential cheesburger marines

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

There are enough memes in this show already we will not be talking about maccas marines - Cal

[@nikoazure5235]

Your messing something important about the fists being yellow. Thier imperial they built the golden palace of the emperor. It's about showing power shining in defiance

[@Hellrelish]

Executioners not mentioned big sad

[@scottamelville]

I play Imperial Fists. I love them becuase they are boring and proud of it. Personality doesn't win wars. No frills. No "themeing". No pretty boy pick-me grimdark edgelord nonsense. Just fortify and survive.

[@benelliott2484]

Imperial fists are so cool and so lame at the same time. 😂

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Well I think their coolness comes from their deeds rather than their style, and yeah... they are kind of lame at times but also cool it's weird - Cal