Axiom versus Shapeoko // Entry Level or Semi-Pro?? // Review

[@CoffeyCustomBuilds]

I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on these machines man. I watched every minute of it. I care about you.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Aww thanks man. I appreciate that!

[@IMEEMADE]

Awesome video! Agree with all the points, although we haven't used an Axiom machine, but the shapeoko is definitely geared toward people who don't mind tinkering. We would love to upgrade to a ball screw machine one of these days!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Ball and screw is definitely a huge upgrade. I really love that feature

[@dnegron8]

I thought this was a very thoughtful and beneficial outtake. Really appreciated your time Design Craft!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Hey! Thanks for the kind words! I appreciate it.

[@dnegron8]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop I imagine quite a few people are in the market for a CNC for the upcoming Black Friday & Cyber Monday sales. Is there any chance you could do a conversation on some of the sub 2k CNC machines? Specifically the Shapeoko vs the Xcarve, Even if it was just your opinion in owning one and not the other. I found your experience very insightful into the Shapeoko, and would love to hear more before purchasing. Originally bought the CNC 3080 pro and it was an absolute nightmare!!! I feel like we need more opinions from professionals as opposed to enthusiast

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

I probably won't be able to do a Shapeoko video in time, but from my experience, the Shapeoko is a great machine. I went with the Shapeoko over the X-carve because at that time, and I don't know if it's still the case now, X-carve literally came in 1000 pieces. I wanted to have a machine that didn't require too much assembling. Also, I felt and read that the X-carve gantries were less superior compared to the Shapeoko. It had more flex which means less accuracy if you're running at faster speeds or you'll have to run the path slower. I hope this helps!

[@dougbeals9682]

Thank you for a very honest and thoughtful review. I'm looking at buying a CNC for my retirement business in the the near future and found your insight very valuable. Would love to see some of your work in future videos :)

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Thanks Doug! Glad you found it helpful! I hope to integrate the CNC in future furniture builds.

[@AndyBirdBuilds]

Great thoughts Bao! Thanks for sharing!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Thanks Andy! hope it gave some good insight

[@BruceAUlrich]

Lots of good information in there! Thanks for sharing!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Thanks Bruce!

[@TwoMooseDesign]

Awesome video the axiom looks amazing!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Thanks guys! I love it!

[@cncprogrammer3265]

When I began looking for my CNC, I was interested in the Laguna. Then I began looking at other brands. It was confusing. I thought belt driven axes and wooden work tables was hobby level. Still there was many interesting machines in that space and for very reasonable prices. Professional grade was just too big, heavy and bulky to put in my basement, and way out of my price range. When i found the Axiom, I really liked it. With the 24 X 48 work envelope it became my first choice. Price, and what's included pushed it down the list some. What I bought was pretty much plug and play. The gantry had to be assembled to the bed and the router had to be mounted, but that was about it. It has it's flaws and weak spots, but I have no regrets or buyers remorse. It's between hobby and professional grade. To me it seems the Axiom is more ridgid and professional grade. If I have to run longer hours or take heavier cuts with larger tools, an Axiom would definitely be on my upgrade list.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Glad it worked out for you! love my machine as well

[@garagemonkeysan]

Nice video, very thorough and detailed. Looks like it was hot in the shop. : ) Great job. Mahalo for sharing!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

haha... did you see the slow progression of sweat on the forehead? 😆

[@garagemonkeysan]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop "I'm melting." 🐵

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

garagemonkeysan it's a daily thing 😆

[@DoMakeBuild]

Great vid man! I’m definitely going to be rewatching this when I’m closer to pulling the trigger. The bit changing is really a big deal. Maybe by the time I’m ready they will update it.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Yes I do hope they come out with the ATC for Axiom. It'll be a wonderful addition.

[@JB-ev8ju]

That new shapeoko pro looks sweet

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

@@JB-ev8ju Xcarve Pro looks good too

[@3ddiy]

Great Video Bao, Will need to rewatch this video if i ever get a CNC.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Thanks buddy! hopefully it was informative

[@justinbyers1441]

Great review video, hoping to get a CNC one day will look into these fir sure 👍

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

You should! It's an amazing machine!

[@eross21]

i was looking at the axiom. but after this video i’m not sure. what router would you wish you had vs. thin one in the video?

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

I think the Axiom is great. I use it almost every day and during the holidays the machine runs from October to January constantly without issues

[@pfboards]

Thanks for this. Great info. Actually I already got my AR8. What I am not sure is about the dust extraction...I have a similar than yours in the back which is a BEAST. I turn it on when I use the planer, the saw, etc....all tools that are being used only for a while. If I need to cut something for more than 30 minutes I would hate to keep the dust extration on for that long. What do you do? If you run something for hours, does your dust collection also run for hours? Mine is a c flux w 3hp, so it is some heavy motor...thanjs!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Yes, I keep it on for the duration of the process. It's loud, but these DC are pretty robust. Mine is also a 3hp.

[@pfboards]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop thanks for your prompt reply. I guess once I have my pipes in place...I will do the same. I hate the chips all over the place...

[@Simonfrios]

Great vid. Did they ever come out with a bit setter?

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Yes they eventually did

[@Simonfrios]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop that's good to know. That seems like a major flaw. Quick question… If you had to start over, would you use sketch up, on shape (an online based CAD used by industrial designers and engineers), or vectric for your design work? I'm asking as a furniture maker.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

@@Simonfrios I personally like to use Shapr3d CAD on my products and Fusion 360 for CAM work. I have used the Beta version of Sketchup mobile and I think Shapr3d interface is much more seamless and easy to use.

[@lukasgriffin6034]

Has there been any upgrades to the post processer using fusion360 and axiom since you recorded this video? I currently use fusion and was looking to purchase an Axiom machine.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

I don't know if they made any updates, but here is the latest : cam.autodesk.com/hsmposts?p=richauto

[@michaeljameson1046]

got 1 on order mid Feb delivery cheers

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Awesome man!

[@nickparkin8527]

I’m gonna be getting a shapeoko pro xxl. Already got a 1.2kw water cooled spindle and am working on the enclosure. I do like the 2’ x 4’ cutting area of yours though and wish carbide would do that!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

You can't go wrong with either. hope you enjoy it

[@mackholman8042]

I have the same machine .LOVE IT !

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Awesome! It's a great one!

[@alanbuilds7829]

Very detailed video. Great information

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

thanks man! Glad it was helpful

[@johnsobel4409]

What version of software are you running on your AXIOM? was it EZ to learn? Thanks for your video.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

I used Fusion360 and it can be a bit of a learning curve. But it's a powerful software. There are easier software like V-Carve that you can use.

[@JF32304]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop haha I'm not a fan of v carve in any sense of the word. I did a crash course of 45 min on here for Fusion and essentially off to the races. So much more intuitive imo.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

@@JF32304 yea I much prefer Fusion for most of the work.

[@JF32304]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop very much so. Before I purchased my current machine I did a trial of vcarve and spent a day or so in it and only got frustrated with the interface and lack of options and so forth. I looked at Fusion and it's like the clouds opened up lol. I use it for 3D printing as well. Happy cutting!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

@@JF32304 for sure. The interface on V-carve is very lacking. Definitely needs an update!

[@DCDLaserCNC]

No question the Axiom is the better and more robust machine. The Axiom is built like a tank!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

yes indeed. It's an apple to orange comparison, but hopefully it provides some insight between the two.

[@ZyvhurStudios]

Routers can spin faster than 24,000 rpm mine does 30,000, just make sure you get a wired one with speed control

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

I'm sure there are other spindles that can go beyond. I believe 24,000 is the max Axiom sets

[@charleswalker6109]

Apologies if you mentioned it in the video...but what do you produce as your main source of income via the CNC?

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

I use it for catch all trays or valet trays.

[@charleswalker6109]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop very nice! Can I ask, what's your monthly production rate? I'm trying to determine if this machine is overkill for my current needs. I haven't found anyone who really mentions how much they are producing be it weekly/monthly/annually, and 9f what they are producing is a barely of sizes, primarily small/med/large items. Really nice video though.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

I believe I mentioned it in the video that I was able to pay off the machine in 6 months. It's very doable if you find the right market and reach out to the right people.

[@dianaloya7790]

Thank you! it´s a great video!!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Thank you!

[@pj_co]

Have the V5 being delivered tomorrow. Might try this engine hoist method. Looks a little sketchy though!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Just take your time and you'll be ok. Key is to keep the machine lifted at its center.

[@davidhittenberger1651]

Noise level? How is the water system hooked up?

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Noise level is way better than the router on my Shapeoko. Spindles in general will be quieter. The water cooled connection has a pump in the box behind the spindle which can be access for maintenance. The new pumps that comes with the Axiom ProV5 is different but better than the one in my Pro+8.

[@mheredia65]

Great video Bao! I'm actually ordering my Axiom AR8 Pro V5 tomorrow! I'm so stoked. The Shapeoko has been okay, but I'm looking forward to moving on! I will say though, for where I am at now, I don't think an ATC is worth the extra for me. If I ever make it to the level of a full-time machine shop, then I think that's when I'd be on board, but for the quality of the Axiom, I don't think it can be beaten in this price range and machine level.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Great choice! It's definitely a great machine for the small shop at a very affordable price. Production efficiency will be up from the Shapeoko. Let me know how you like it when you get it in your shop! I'm sure you're going to love it.

[@dnegron8]

Hey Michael, I am shopping around for a Shapeoko, any chance you're looking to get rid of yours?

[@Simonfrios]

What is an ATC?

[@mheredia65]

@@Simonfrios it's an "automatic tool changer"

[@ceciljohnson3560]

Have you investigated the possibility that the feed rate is being interpreted by the Axiom as metric values instead of imperial? I also use Fusion 360 with projects designed and GCODE output in imperial values. Dimensionally accurate but feed rate extremely slow. Output GCODE from imperial design as metric instead and feed rates then appeared to follow design programming; remained dimensionally accurate.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Yea I tried that and it was what Axiom recommended. I still felt it was slower than the reported time under simulation by 2x.

[@SeamlessFab]

There’s a dustboot for the Axiom made by a guy on Etsy that’s about a thousand times better than the OEM one fyi. Night and Day.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Got the upgrade 👍

[@tratzum]

Stepcraft has an auto tool changer CNC that is not too much $$. Can't say how sturdy it is since there are few videos. Laguna CNC's are way expensive. The cheapest one looks identical to Axiom the most expensive hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Yea there are so many new machines out there. Don’t think stepcraft had any available with ATC when I purchased the Axiom

[@cnclife1385]

I have shapeoko XXL, The belt tension was really easy to set when I assembled and have not had to adjust it since over a year now.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

That's great! The issue is potentially long term. Some may have better luck than others.

[@JB-ev8ju]

As a person who has a Shapeoko 3xll and a axiom elite16, in almost every case I'd say take the Shapeoko. I don't think the axiom is worth the money due to quality and the huge amount of restrictions of its ecosystem.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

Yea it's not for everyone. What restriction are you referring to?

[@JB-ev8ju]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop so many, the controller is a buggy Chinese mess with some technical menus in chinese. You can only 0 the x and y together, not separately. It's very restricted on cam software, only has a Vectric Post processor support. The touch probe was inconsistent up to a whole 1mm!!!

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

That's interesting. I haven't had the issues with bugs other than issues with feed rates from Fusion. I do agree it seems like Axiom plays a lot better with Vetric software. I might move to a different CAM software and see if it's any different.

[@JB-ev8ju]

@@DesignCraftWorkshop yeah my controller bugs out from time to time. This is the second one in two years, I've had to factory reset it 3 times because the feed rate in the jog will just randomly have different values. My screen is starting to blink and spas out a lot like the first one, it's almost seizure inducing.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

@@JB-ev8ju oh man. sorry to hear that. at least did customer service take care of you?

[@shelby50411]

...and you better love your mschine since you paid a high high premium for it ...its definitely not a good value purchase....professional cnc segment have very very high markups and are extremely overpriced sometimes 500-1000% markup.

[@DesignCraftWorkshop]

I think I covered all these points in the video if you actually watched it. 20-40k is not what an Axiom machine costs.