What Makes A Great Sleep Mechanic?

[@DesignDoc]

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[@Biouke]

But don't make a suicide wizard like you see at 1:08. Also I question that "self" object :p

[@alvis1218]

I found them through your previous video, and I'm thankful I did! It's been quite good so far!

[@pavonian7531]

I'm guessing the fact that we made it through a whole video on sleep mechanics without talking about dreams and all the various dream worlds in games might hint at a future video topic.

[@arogustus3984]

Yeah, he confirmed it when he announced the video. If he added dream stuff in here, the video would be too bloated.

[@flowerheart2054]

You know any cool games with dream worlds?

[@pavonian7531]

@@flowerheart2054 Hollow Knight and the Outer Wilds DLC both have a sort of dream world, and Celeste has a level that turns out to have been a dream the whole time

[@headmill]

@@flowerheart2054Voices of the Void has nightmare sequences that affect whether you get a good night's sleep or jolt awake even more tired than before.

[@sid98geek]

And you went through the whole video without sleeping at 4 AM. Am I right? Am I right?!

[@AndroxineVortex]

Videos on trending: I sleep Videos on sleep mechanics: Oh yeah boy

[@Illager_Fries_Gaming]

Videos on sleep mechanics: I trend

[@erbkaiser_]

In Euro Truck Simulator and related games sleep is not as much a requirement in itself, but it's a necessity anyway. Not only do you get fined if you do not drive to a motel or parking spot for a rest after your allotted driving hours are over, you eventually also begin to yawn and take micro naps, where the entire screen goes dark and you may get into a traffic accident.

[@blakdeth]

Something I've always found amusing was that in bully if you didn't make it to bed before you pass out, someone will have stolen your shoes by the time you wake up. They're not permanently gone you can put them back on from any closet you own, but having to walk back in just your socks is a little funny.

[@kevinsaldana4578]

A little fun fact i had with sleep. When Kirby and the forgotten land released i played with my brother almost daily. Then i make him believe that after unlocking Kirby's house the way to save the game was to sleep in Kirby's bed. So each night before going to sleep we had to take Kirby and bandana dee to sleep, my mom even found it cute haha. Even after i stoped playing, my brother kept searching for missing waddle dees and going to bed in Kirby's house.

[@coreymyers5321]

Sleep can also change from a bit annoying to a new way to play. In Kirby and the Forgotten Lands, sleep is originally an annoyance, but when you upgrade the sleep copy ability you now get a power up. Really useful if you are half way through a challenging coliseum run.

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

Squeak Squad also had an upgrade. Not "have a temporary buff to any of your 3 stats" good but once you find the Sleep Scroll in a chest, Sleep will start to recharge your health in that game. Given that was my first Kirby game, it threw me off when I played all the other games & it DIDN'T heal me.

[@GodOfWheatRiceBall]

In kirby battle royale there was a vote on what abilities will be added to the game, mirror and sleep ended up winning, so they have to work around to make sleep an actual ability that can attack. Also in return to dreamland you can shake your controller to wake up sleeping kirby, as you shake more the snore bubble gets bigger and eventually blow up, not only makes kirby wake up faster, the blow up bubble can also deal small damage, prevent getting hit by enemy in front.

[@alejandropetit6573]

​@@GodOfWheatRiceBallpillow fight!

[@JustAFoolishMortal]

Not a lot of people talk about this. They gotta stop sleeping on it

[@mattsully2238]

Well done

[@Ariamaki]

One thing I am surprised this episode didn't cover is how often sleep as a stun-like debuff is often more volatile and unstable than other effects. Paralysis tends to last a decent while and only wear off with time or an active cure effect, but Sleep is very regularly disrupted as soon as somebody gets hit, with many games even separating the effect to only work for physical hits (letting magic / special damage come right through on the snoozer).

[@eddycabreja3332]

Speaking of Kirby, some games use the Sleep Copy Essences as actual obstacles. Stage 6-1 in Kirby's Return to Dreamland has a segment with electrical cannons, blocks that disintegrate when you stand on them and, of course, the Sleep copy essences. You don't want to touch the copy essences or else you'll fall asleep, leading to you getting hit by the cannons or falling off the bridge.

[@ravenstales6457]

Funny how it's also an easily ignored power up in other games, since it seemingly does nothing but knock you out, but it's a full heal in disguise

[@Doktario_Mystario]

Kirby Triple Deluxe also has a segment like that

[@saparapatepete]

Also works as a funny joke XD, that's one of the many reasons that copy ability is popular XD

[@ianhubble9973]

There's also something like that in Forgotten Land

[@dkpsyhog]

Yep, that obstacle was first used in Kirby Super Star's The Great Cave Offensive campaign, and it's been a tradition ever since! Not every game has it, but it's always a delight to see it. There are also a few games where Sleep isn't purely detrimental; it can heal Kirby in both SqSq and KFL, and in KBR it has a full moveset!

[@StrakBlue]

Sleep is what I just recovered from to watch this video.

[@billyweed835]

1. I like the Kirby one and how they use it for puzzles. Like the room in the Great Cave Offensive, which has a treasure at the end, a wind blowing towards the entrance, and a lot of sleep pedestals, and the puzzle is how to get through without accidentally getting sleep which will cause Kirby to be blown back to the entrance. 2. Actually, on that note, that would be a fun episode topic IE power-DOWNS: Items which are like power-ups but intentionally HINDER the player, often as a punishment for the player just blindly grabbing stuff or an obstacle. The infamous Mario Poison Mushroom being the most iconic example.

[@MarushiaDark316]

Surprised Harvest Moon and Stardew Valley weren't mentioned since sleep is a central mechanic in both games. In certain instances, you're forced to restart the next day with diminished stamina if you didn't sleep or you could even lose a day by becoming sick from exhaustion due to trying to power through anyway. So sleep becomes a balancing act in terms of how much you're able to accomplish.

[@CiromBreeze]

And, similar to the FF15 example, levelling up a skill in Stardew Valley doesn't give you all the benefits immedaitely. You'll get the Proficiency bonus immediately (lower stamina use, larger fishing bar, etc), but the recipes you learn will only be granted once you sleep on it. Rune Factory is also similar to HM/SoS (being in the same genre of game), but it's handled a bit differently. Sleep isn't necessarily *required* - you never get forced to sleep or start the next day, time just passes as it normally would. However, not sleeping will inflict a tiredness debuff which quadruples stamina costs, making not sleeping really only useful as an emergency option (say if you're in the middle of a dungeon). Additionally, Sleeping is a skill you can level up, which provides *permanent* bonuses to MaxHP/MaxRP/Str/Int/Vit based on how long you sleep for. If you only sleep an hour before you wake up, then you won't get many of those stats at all...

[@NachoAdventurer]

I really like how Bug Fables introduces the sleep status effect is neutral? When a character or an enemy are sleeping, they slowly gets healed every turn, but if that character it's attacked it will instantly wake up and of course, you cannot get the benefits of healing. And of course, you can make an entire badge set around sleeping to get very well healed

[@blubbernibble9111]

You also can't block while sleeping so you're going inevitably take more damage weapon up than if you hadn't fallen asleep

[@yowza9638]

I'm pretty sure there's a badge to mitigate that; maybe I'm tripping, but I know there's at least one for paralysis

[@finaldusk1821]

While not as involved, Persona 5 handles sleep similarly. On one hand the target skips turns, can't dodge, and takes double damage from the next attack they receive (which wakes them up). On the other hand, every turn lost will regenerate some HP and SP. You want to set up for a massive attack to get the most out of the damage multiplier, while using safe turns to heal and buff your party, but the longer you take the more of your progress is undone.

[@PaulPower4]

I think one of the reasons why Bug Fables does this is addressing a specific Paper Mario issue of "a lot of statuses with different flavourings that mechanically are all just 'lose turns' ". Bug Fables made it so sleep was "lose N turns, but recover health", paralysis was "lose N turns, but +1 defence", and frozen was "lose N turns, -1 defence, but ends prematurely if attacked" (happily in 99% of cases this is a status you're inflicting on the enemy). You have to be doing some very funky medal builds to actually take advantage of sleep and paralysis (because for the most part action economy is king) but I think on the whole it's just there to make each status a little different.

[@pippastrelle]

I do like the vibes of adventure games where finding a place to stay for the night matters. It's a great staple of modern quest stories, like the character moments you get when they finally get to crash at a nice hotel, or having to have a lookout while you sleep rough

[@Gabriel-doodle]

A game could also go into the hallucination side of it. Minecraft has beds; when it becomes dark, you go to bed and awake at dawn. However, if you don’t sleep for more than 3 days, the Phantom will appear. They will try to swoop in and attack the player. The only ways to stop them are to kill it, wait until dawn, or go to bed. They’re hard to kill and the sun takes a while to come up, so it will be best for players most of the time to simply go to bed.

[@dubblebrick]

Also, don't try to sleep in any other dimensions, otherwise you get hit with the [Intentional Game Design]

[@thekoifishcoyote8762]

Not sure if it's still a thing but phantoms also ignored you if you're under something

[@davidbrickey8733]

Personally I found this to be a really annoying "chore" mechanic that either does nothing, or disrupts whatever else you're trying to do. Plus it's not explained to you why "those annoying flying enemies" are appearing. As soon as me and my sisters looked it up and realized that's what was going on, we used the console command to turn them off.

[@Nethan2000]

​@@dubblebrickIf you need to explicitly tell your players that a game mechanic is intentional and not a bug, it's a bad game mechanic.

[@sinisternorimaki]

One of the most annoying and pointless additions to the game, honestly. Screwed up the whole sleep mechanic.

[@indecision6326]

I didn't notice the community post for this one. A bit of a rude awakening. Also, Cassette Beasts. Sleep doesn't disable you. It just changes your skillset to an incredibly powerful melee attack, an incredibly powerful ranged attack, and a move that summons backup. Thing is, they all have 1% accuracy... which is only a big deal if you weren't prepared for it. It's entirely possible to make a tape or two whose entire point is to use moves like Meditate to force sleep and get additional bonuses, then have your ally use Sure-Fire to turn your 1% chance to hit into a 100% chance.

[@bivcbmtgstgtssscqcrddgtrsm2257]

Gods above is that game a masterpiece.

[@something-from-elsewhere]

Yesss I was wondering if someone was gonna mention cassette beasts in here, one of the most interesting ways I've seen sleep-as-a-status-effect handled in turned based combat n it's what I was thinkin about through that whole section of the video

[@aturchomicz821]

@@bivcbmtgstgtssscqcrddgtrsm2257 lol

[@davidbrickey8733]

I was gonna mention it if noone else had. Personally I thought that the self-sleep strategy took up way too many skill slots and turns for a middling payoff, but it's cool that they took the effort. And included a boss who uses that strategy to make sure you notice.

[@indecision6326]

@@davidbrickey8733 Would be more interesting if a type weakness didn't completely ruin the strategy.

[@JudeEaley]

I like the unspoken etiquette when you sleep a monster in MH. Greatsworders will be buffed by horners and some fella with demon powder, drop a small barrel bomb then counter it, hitting into the monster for double damage, as the team set up large explosives next to the monster so it blows up upon waking. It's a great plan, but bow users exist and they keep waking up enemies by not being able to stop shooting the thing, dealing like 120 damage instead of 8000.

[@KARLOSPCgame]

Waiting for a chance for my Gunlance Wyvern fire to do 1 big damage rather than 3 medium ones

[@westhescrub]

LBG main guilty as charged

[@Apotheosister]

Sleep is a fantastic gameplay thing, I also love how great it is for the humor. For both the hunters or the monsters, whenever someone sleeps there's a 50% something silly is about to happen.

[@sgt.eclair]

I personally love how Roadwarden handles sleep: your character is very anxious due to all their responsibilities, and often has trouble sleeping - or is woken up by something during the night. Usually it's of no concern, or just your character reflecting on what's to come, but sometimes it's a nightmare or vision. It's really well fleshed out, and the graphics and music when waking up in the middle of the night really nail the atmosphere and feeling of it. It's also mechanically interesting - night is INCREDIBLY dangerous in the setting, so much so that if you're caught out once the sun sets, your character goes "NOPE" and hightails it to the nearest safe spot to sleep. It makes finding a safe spot to sleep an important consideration, and the discovery of an affordable or free one a major victory.

[@Damariobros]

5:37 In Great Cave Offensive in Kirby Super Star, there's a room in the great tower that has a bunch of Sleep copy ability essences, and they fill the room and there's wind pushing you back and you have to weave through them if you want to get to the treasure at the end of the room. If you accidentally touch one of them, you instantly get the Sleep power and get pushed back to the start of the room by the wind.

[@gracenantaya8394]

Incredible idea

[@rixius1005]

Applying sleep to a Pokemon is very helpful if you're trying to capture a hard to find Pokemon. As it prevent your opponent from attacking, there are less chances of knocking itself out from recoil damage because you used False Swipe a little bit TOO much. As a couple comments below pointed out, Kirby's sleep ability can heal but it varies from game to game. I've been trying to think of other games that have unique twists on sleep mechanics but I'm coming up blank. I think I need to sleep on this.

[@leetri]

Sleep also doubles the catch rate (Freeze doubles it too, but is impossible to inflict at will). Paralyze, Burn, and Poison only give a 1,5 times catch rate, but Paralyze is the easiest status condition to inflict and it lasts indefinitely, so it's usually the go-to.

[@landis9767]

i feel like i'm the only one who actually liked the dropping mechanic in kh dream drop distance. as you mentioned, it can be almost completely avoided with the use of drop-me-not's and by dropping manually, so the choice is up to you. you *could* play each chapter in order with each character... but if you instead embrace the chaotic nature of dreams and allow for the drop to happen naturally, resisting your craving for immediate catharsis, you can spend the droplets you've been collecting to get bonuses for the next section with the other character (like better stats, more xp gains and stuff). what you do with sora affects riku and vice versa, and this reciprocity reflects their friendship in a thematic way: they fight on two opposite sides for the sake of one another. it's sweet. it can also become really poweful. if you keep up the virtuous cycle you'll eventually be able to get enormous bonuses which are pretty much required for level 1 runs.

[@nickrl113]

Me and my siblings had a weird relationship with kh3d and birth by sleep. We had this weird thing where we basically played kh3d as a coop game, physically swapping to take turns. In birth by sleep, we all took different characters (partially so we could always know which save file was ours, but we also had this same weird claim system with pokemon diamond. I ended up with terra and turtwig since I was last pick). It was an interesting time from when we used to share a single handheld between us.

[@landis9767]

@@nickrl113 :) my cousin and i did the same with kh ddd and donkey kong country

[@tristanneal9552]

​@@nickrl113 That's really cool, it's like sharing was baked right into the mechanics of the game!

[@Pharaohstheif]

I also really like the drop mechanic. Embracing the chaos makes the game a lot more fun imo. Except the boss health reset, that was dumb, but I just use the drop-me-not right before going into a boss fight and voila no problem. Nice to see someone else who enjoys it!

[@PlebeianTheWise]

You should do a video on FOMO in games. I hate when games have any sort of missable content even if it makes no sense for those story beats to be available whenever the player wants. It’s an interesting balance between FOMO for players and comprehensibility of the in game world.

[@dhi_holo]

FOMO with some games is really interesting to think about imo Like, Xenoblade 1. It marks all quests that you can't put off until the Point of No Return with an icon, saying "this quest doesn't last forever", but it doesn't tell you how long you have left, so even when people are trying to make sure they get them, they might miss the deadline because they just didn't expect it I definitely prefer this system to games that just kinda have the deadline be completely hidden, "oh you hadn't done this yet? Well too bad it's suddenly inaccessible" just isn't fun I do wonder what the true "best" method could be though

[@Petsinwinter2]

In Squeak Squad, every copy ability has an upgrade scroll, even Sleep. Sleep's upgrade is that taking a snooze now also restores a quarter of your HP

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

So does forgotten land! And the upgrades have upgrade scrolls too!

[@Petsinwinter2]

@@Aaa-vp6ug yes, it does, but it doesn't have the Sleep Copy Ability, which is why I hadn't brought it up :p

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

@@Petsinwinter2 but it does have the sleep copy ability, I used it and still have the upgraded version

[@Petsinwinter2]

@@Aaa-vp6ug then I was mistaken. you'll have to forgive me, it's been a bit since I played it

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

@@Petsinwinter2 fair enough, same here

[@ablationer]

17:38 I've personally never had a problem with the sleeping mechanic in Brave Fencer Musashi. It takes a LONG time to reach 100%, and taking naps here and there is a good way to replenish HP. Not only that, but once you get the Legendary Quilt, sleep ALSO restores BP, making it even more useful. You can also buy Mint's for dirt cheap, too. It's also a neat way to speed up time when you need access to certain shops, or want to go Minku hunting at night.

[@Just_Shaun]

My favourite application for sleep in games is the goofy and charming sleeping idle animations.

[@GuyThePerson]

Personally, I like the sleep mechanic in Don't Starve. It essentially trades your hunger for a boost in sanity and health, while passing time. It can also be used offensively, like with the Pan Flute

[@sammartinez7218]

I like the sleep mechanic in the Fallout games. It's not a requirement(unless you play survival and even then it's pretty easy to manage) but it gives the buffs of well rested usually increasing XP gain for a few in game hours. Giving an incentive to sleep rather than a punishment

[@sgt.eclair]

In New Vegas they do something interesting, which is that sleeping anywhere will restore HP in casual and tiredness in hardcore, but you only get that XP modifier if you sleep in a bed in a location intended as a player base. It incentivizes you to move away from being a wandering vagabond towards being a wandering vagabond with a place to crash, which is actually really nice for item management purposes.

[@AzureRook]

In Don’t Starve/Together, sleeping is an additional means of recovering health and sanity but at the cost of hunger points w/ varying effectiveness depending on the time of day/items used it’s also a status effect that can afflict enemies and the player in combat

[@skeleton819]

being put to sleep offensively is truly one of the worst things that can happen in games

[@occamsaturn]

and in real life as well

[@_Lostinthesky]

Jigglypuff in smash be like

[@AshVXmc]

Ana’s sleep dart

[@uroy8371]

I don't think so, the punishment after is what could make it feel bad. One of the worst without a doubt is brainwashed or losing one core mechanic.

[@_Lostinthesky]

@@uroy8371 that’s the reason sleep is one of the worst things though and those other ones you mentioned are definitely on the same level if not higher

[@frlans]

Can you make a video regarding different kinds of DEF stat calculation in games and how it affects the game? Like either just ATK - DEF, some kind of ATK / DEF, or a whole different calculation

[@MasterKnightDH]

That's actually something I'd like to see. Armor enemy balancing especially is heavily influenced by that. So easily seconded.

[@jamic6107]

5:50 In some Kirby games, sleeping also heals you so it's not 100% negative.

[@Doktario_Mystario]

am amazed that Mario & Luigi Dream Team wasn't brought up because it's quite literally "sleep: the game" the game has some missed potential with not using anything related to Super Mario Bros 2 (USA) or Luigi's Mansion but i feel like the game makes up for it by going for a more realistic aproach with how it portrayes dreams (enemy's in the dream world are mostly based on enemy's/things in the real world and the Mario enemy's are hinted to be placed by Kamek/Bowser/Antasma. And how the dream world looks is based on Luigi's most recent memories with a dream like style to them). Sleep as a status effect also gets used by Antasma as a punishment for getting hit which is very unique for both the game and the series. Sleep also appears as a gimmick in one of the Hooraw fights (the white one) in which you have to act fast to keep him awake to prevent him from healing, this fight is also unique compared to the rest of the series. I also like how the dream segments expand on "Bowser's Body" from Bowser's Inside Story with the 2D segments now being more level based and that the gimmicks are more convient to use

[@bivcbmtgstgtssscqcrddgtrsm2257]

Funny story: When I got the game on my eleventh birthday, I spent the entire night playing it because of how much fun I was having. I legitimately hallucinated for a bit that morning. Not fun since I had school...

[@Illager_Fries_Gaming]

i went crazy on dream team, i just finished the game and and my average play time is over 2 hours

[@coolestcartoonist7425]

I kept waiting for this game to be brought up but it never was lol

[@RockhopperRio]

The section on Metal Gear made me realize that I’d absolutely love to see one of these videos on Stealth mechanics in games. I love stealth segments but they’re something that can get botched so easily.

[@Apotheosister]

Oh yeah! There's no other mechanics I know of that get botched as much as stealth. I love stealth focused games but it's usually not fun when used as a minigame.

[@arogustus3984]

I like the use of sleep in Don't Starve. It fills in a lot of roles as a recovery tool, a combat tool, and an inconvenience! In the single player game, it allowed you to outright skip the dawn and dusk phase of the day, at the cost of hunger, but with the boon of restored health and sanity. The better the station you use, the better the health and sanity gain. In Together, due to being in real time as a multiplayer game, you can't skip the night now. At least it still provides all the boons it does, including protection against Charlie. It's an excellent resource saver, since you can use a tent multiple times to save on healing salves and firewood. Of course, there are other ways to fall asleep at way more inconvenient times. The gestalts of the Lunar Biomes have a drowsiness mechanic attached to their attacks. One hit will make you drowsy, slowing your movement drastically, and getting hit a second time will put you to sleep and leave you vulnerable to more dangerous creatures. The Celestial Champion makes use of those gestalts as part of its boss fight. Finally, you yourself can weaponize sleep thanks to the Pan Flute. A rare craft made out of a Mandrake, a single use will put everything in the surrounding area that can sleep to, well, sleep. If you need to give yourself a breather or engage a bunch of enemies at once, then the panflute is excellent for creating openings. It's even a staple item in several raid boss strategies. You can use it to buy time against bosses that summon enemies like Klaus and Bee Queen, or force them out of dangerous modes like Dragonfly's enraged state.

[@stevethepocket]

Wait, so in _Together_ you have to just sit there for potentially multiple minutes just waiting for your guy to wake up again? Even if all the players are sleeping at once?

[@arogustus3984]

@@stevethepocket No, you can wake yourself up any time you want. You can only sleep at dawn all the way through night. Not everyone sleeps at the same time (the only reason you'd do so in Together is if your low on health or sanity), so if your with other players, you can sleep to restore your stats while other people work. It sounds weird to be made to stop playing just to sleep, but usually I use it as a moment to plan ahead and relax for a bit.

[@kevingriffith6011]

@stevethepocket You're not *forced* to, and the day-night cycle is pretty short in Don't Starve so you're not out for long if you do opt to sleep. There are numerous ways to heal, survive the night and maintain your sanity without sleeping, and often finding the courage to wander about with just a torch, mining helmet, moggles or other portable light source is one of the transitions from a beginner to an experienced player. Basically, when you're new and still figuring out how to manage your resources, sleeping is an easy way to manage tough to recover resources like health and stamina, but as you become more advanced you'll need it less and less.

[@Apotheosister]

While it might not be too impactful, I really like how Wickerbottom uses sleep. As in, she can't sleep, you lose the benefits while still being negatively affected by enemy attacks. It's one of the few games I know that has a Insomnia mechanic, and it's a fun idea.

[@BikoFactory]

Death Stranding does something interesting with sleep and stamina. Your Stamina bar can be depleted by high effort tasks (e.g. climbing) and moderate effort tasks (e.g. running), but also recovered through a resting action where the main character just sits down for a while. But doing high or moderate effort tasks also depletes the overall Stamina bar size (at a very very low rate) - which cannot be recovered by resting outside. You can only recover your full Stamina Bar by going to a shelter and sleeping (...or finding a hot spring). It adds a little more strategy to the gameplay - resting makes time pass and time makes structure decay in the world, so theres's an incentive to sleep only when necessary. The main character also cannot rest in every delivery spot and sometimes you want to make your delivery choice based on which location offers you to sleep or not.

[@coreymyers5321]

Interesting how this was uploaded in the morning after I just woke up from my sleep.

[@NicoDitirro]

Great video! I implemented a sleep video in my videogame "Linked Worlds". The game has an in-game clock, sleeping will heal everything and give a small stats boost that will last some hours. If you don't sleep, you get tired and your stats go down, and sleeping is the only way to recover tiredness. You also need to decide if you sleep or continue investigating, as time passes some side quests may be unavailable later, and also the last boss gets stronger as time pass.

[@tysonvienneau1830]

I enjoy when sleep as a status effect has more than a pure stun and instead has a bunch of interesting quirks In bug fables and Persona, sleeping has a recovery effect that gradually restores health and (possibly) mp/sp/whatever, meaning that there's a risk-reward system. You put the enemy to sleep, you'd better capitalize on it or the enemy's just going to recover everything. Put yourself to sleep (Specifically in Bug Fables with a bunch of badges) you can use the time to regen, but you'll be a sitting duck Alongside this is when you wake up either immediately or a chance after you're hit directly. It makes it interesting in that you can isolate an enemy or two to focus something else, but it's not the best thing to use when you can't skip their turn at least once. It's can be fair as well as you only have to take a single hit before waking up potentially, and maybe there's something you can do to capitalize on the sleep even after they wake up (You know, like Pokemon's Wake-up slap or Dream eater)

[@gregpeterson5857]

I've recently started Immortal Life, a farm sim with adventure game sections, and I liked how sleep works there. You never actually have to sleep but if you do your health, MP, and stamina will be restored based on how long you sleep for. So you could stay up until 6 a.m. and sleep until 7 a.m but get nothing out of it or you can go to bed at 10 p.m. and restore significant amounts of each.

[@theRealMonkeySoup]

I really liked the drop mechanic in KH3D, didn't feel like it disturbed the experience at all.

[@raleo7466]

I love how animal crossing new leaf managed that people in coop ruin your town and that you have to be online at the same time with the dream town mechanic. Conceptually is so well presented and intuitive, you can easily understand that any changes you make to other's towns are reverted and you won't play with the owner because the owner is sleeping in that dream version. It was a nice contextualization

[@sacripan4425]

I love when the sleep status effect that heal you each turn, but stun you and lower your defense, but you wake up if you get hit

[@hostiledodo1150]

I'm kinda surprised you didn't talk about Minecraft's Phantoms in the segment about punishments for not sleeping. Those things can be a real nightmare if you're unlucky enough to have a seed where no sheep or villages are nearby and you pretty much have to either hide in a hole or fight your way through every night until you can sleep

[@dwirandypradhika6752]

Yeah, sleep in musashi is definitely more of a balancing problem than a mechanic problem. But balancing issues are everywhere in that era of gaming, so it'd be interesting to see it again in similar but modern games.

[@ScrambledAndBenedict]

Brave Fencer Musashi was always my favorite sleep mechanic. How you can sleep everywhere AND use an inn for varying amounts of time. I really wish more games allowed you that level of flexibility.

[@SirBanana1992]

another nuance of Sleep in Pokemon, you can take advantage of expecting sleep by learning the move Sleep Talk which lets you use one of your other moves at random but can only be used while asleep. I also think of Sleep in Legend of Heroes as a status where the target is unable to act for a specified number of turns next to the status indicator, telling you how long you got left so you can decide to use a resource to cure or not. Like in Monster Hunter getting hit out of sleep instantly wakes up the target with a critical hit. They then added the upgraded sleep status: Nightmare. Nightmare has the same properties of sleep but enemies typically have a higher resistance to it but in addition to the usual effects, a target waking up from nightmare without being cured receives a random status effect, assuming they are not immune to it or don't end up resisting it.

[@KageRyu798]

Sleep is a really interesting status effect in Granblue Fantasy. How it works isn't much different from other turn-based RPGs-you put an enemy to sleep, and they can't attack on their turn, and they take increased damage when hit while asleep (same applies to the player). The part that makes it weird is the fact that most sleep skills inflict the effect for 2-3 turns, but the inherent mechanics of the game force you to end your turn by attacking; meaning that it really only lasts for 1 turn in most cases. Furthermore, skills that damage the foe will wake them up instantly, before you end your turn, which wastes the potential of having the foe not attack. While this can still be useful to stall foes in battles with more than one enemy present, most boss battles/raids are against a single target, so it's a really niche status to inflict since usually the best way to gain the full benefits is to inflict it just before ending the turn with a chain burst, making sure to have already used any damage skills beforehand. I suppose you could also make it last more than one turn against raid bosses using the V2 battle system, since you can choose to defend rather than attack, but if you have any buffs active, that's just one less turn they remain active, squandering any extra damage that offers. Again, a rather niche skill. As for how it affects the player, it's not much different from other RPGs, but it's usually a very bad thing for your party to be put to sleep if you can't cure it because not only do the affected members not get to use a skill or attack, but the increased damage is much more likely to kill them if you can't reduce/avoid the damage somehow. The status is generally far worse for a party member to be afflicted by than it is beneficial to inflict on the foe simply due to the massive difference in HP. Putting the boss to sleep may help the battle end a turn or two earlier, but getting put to sleep could lead to losing the battle if you don't account for it. This isn't much different from other turn-based RPGs, but reviving skills have very lengthy cooldowns, so keeping everyone alive is much more crucial. (or use a full elixir, but at that point, the intricacies of any mechanics don't matter much anymore.)

[@dubblebrick]

3:46 I would like to point out how this setplay is often referred to as "Chesto Resto" and is legitimately useful in some scenarios (and is a total gimmick outside single player)

[@digitaleva]

It didn't take long for the sleep swap to grow on me in KH3D. It also didn't take long for me to realize that it was probably important to the game's story to force that swapping.

[@blastgb18]

To be honest, it's no very difficult to control the time you have to avoid drops in inconvenient times so I tend to think that people exaggerates a lot when talking about this. Is the drop system fun? Ehhh no, and it could have been put in key points. But I think it was implemented like this so you can choose how to play, maybe you are stuck with Sora's storyline so you drop on propose to be able to continue with Riku. O maybe you need to level up o grind some material with one character, tge drop mechanic can be a pause from grinding. I guess it varies depending on how you plan the way you play through the game

[@digitaleva]

​@@blastgb18 Definitely. I ended up having fun with it once I realized how I could game the system, but that was my experience.

[@WolfWalrus]

In _Kirby: Mouse Attack_ you can unlock scrolls to power up Kirby's various copy abilities. Once you have the Sleep scroll, it does restore HP over time while you're sleeping.

[@Chrisezo]

I watched this as I was sleepy from pulling an all nighter, and your tone of voice actually helped me get well rested as I learned something, but I may have had to rewatch some parts a couple of times, as I nodded back on and off.

[@tylercafe1260]

17:10 Those aren't Minor Buffs. Attack Gain gives you +6 strength at Lvl 3 and Drop Decelerator helps a ton through the entire playthrough. That's why Portals and the environment gave lots of Drop Points. The game heavily rewards you for playing as long as you can before you drop.

[@X-35173]

In my pokemon crystal LP I used a Noctowl based around hypnosis and nightmare.

[@iateitguy903]

I've always liked mild survival mechanics in non-survival games, and sleep's one of the things I enjoy when it's done right. When Skyrim came out, I saw all the beds and the inns and everything but there was no real reason to actually USE them until they came out with the survival mode, which made pretty much every little mechanic I wished had use (food, cooking, inns, etc) now something to actually use. Off the topic of sleep specifically, but one of my favorites I always wanted to see come up again was Darkstone's food system. It was a Diablo 1 inspired game that had a hunger meter that went down fast enough to notice, but not so much you were grabbing rotisserie chickens by the armful and shoving 'em in your mouth. I'd basically attribute my love of these kinds of things to Darkstone specifically, and kinda wish they remastered it on PC with a UI resembling the PSX version.

[@rodvx2]

(The Long Dark, Moon Remix RPG, Stardew Valley) in games like Moon Remix RPG and (to an extent) Stardew Valley, sleeping is required to make progress in the game. In Moon, for example, you have to sleep or you game over and that day’s progress is erased. It’s the only way to save. Stardew is similar in that it lets you save, but you don’t lose the day if you fail to sleep in time (although you sometimes have to pay money). When it comes to rest, the survival game The Long Dark is another great example. In that game, sleep is one of the major elements you have to focus on. Your character only has so much energy before they reach exhaustion, and once that happens you move much slower and start to lose health. Sleep is the only way to really fix it if you don’t have certain items like coffee or energy drinks. There are also drinks like herbal tea in the game which augment your sleep and improve the recovery you get while sleeping, as well as the weather effect of glimmer fog that gives your character insomnia that ruins your ability to get a good nights sleep and recover as well. You also need to make sure you are in a safe place when you sleep or animals could attack you or it could get so cold that you freeze to death in your sleep. It’s one of the things you have to think about all the time when you play that game.

[@sgt.eclair]

also, the most important part of TLD's sleep: if you get tired, you lose carrying capacity. truly the #1 way to motivate gamers lol

[@zaneheaston8254]

Gotta love how Kirby & the Forgotten Land made the Sleep ability god tier

[@Salsmachev]

It would be really fun to have a sleep status effect in a game that both renders the target helpless and refreshes them. I could see a really interesting encounter based around getting the boss weak enough to cast sleep on them, and then having to take them out fast before they wake up fully refreshed and restored.

[@renegaderaven3777]

My favorite version of sleep status is in jrps that after going to sleep, the enemy is essentially paralyzed but if you attack them you deal double damage and they immediately wake up afterwards. Making the sleep status a multi faceted tool to both put a dangerous monster out of commission and to later plan offensively. First example in my head is the Etrian Odyssey series that does this.

[@AiNaKa]

from the basic description of citizen sleeper, it almost sounds like an allegory for being disabled, and i think thats kind of interesting.

[@DampWetstew]

I love Brave Fencer Musashi's sleep system. Musashi uses BP (Bincho Points) to stay in the world. Sleeping lets you exchange BP to regain health and tiredness. If he runs out of BP he gets *exhausted* even with a low tiredness (you have to try pretty hard to deplete Musashi's BP, especially since one of the collectibles fully restores it). You can restore tiredness up to 30% (iirc) in the wild, but you can drop it down to zero by sleeping at a bed or from a hidden equipment. BFM also has a limited inventory. You can carry mints that automatically restore you to rested with late game mints nearly fully refreshing you and curing poison. That said. Poison *suuuucks* it drops Musashi's movement down to critical, saps his health and slows his grounded attacks and an area has a bottomless pit that gives Poison. There is a copy ability in the area before that cures poison, but if you don't grab it or have some antidote on hand it's a long walk out of the mine. Play Brave Fencer Musashi. It's my favorite PSX game that doesn't begin with Final Fantasy

[@cobaltisnotreal7581]

I never found the sleep system in Brave Fencer Musashi to be that much of a bother. There’s plenty of enemies that can refresh your tiredness via assimilation.

[@Brexcon.mp4]

Personally, I didn’t mind the drop system in DDD. It was annoying at first, but once I got the hang of it, it was kinda easy to work around. I usually explored the world and did as much as I can on each character, and made sure I had a full bar before each boss

[@jy3n2]

Sleep can show up without being a status effect or even a disruption. In Cultist Simulator, one of your key verbs is "Dream", which is not only a key source of healing but also story progression and resources.

[@Nyperold018]

In Star Fox Adventures, Fox doesn't sleep outside of having been knocked out, and the enemies don't sleep except in a cutscene, but some NPCs sleep at night. This only potentially affects the game once, as most NPCs that sleep either wake up on your approach anyway or aren't particularly helpful to begin with. Your first time in SnowHorn Wastes, you encounter a SnowHorn (think mammoth) in a particular area. He's too hungry to talk to strangers, but if you give him an Alpine Root, he'll improve your money-carrying capacity. Give him a second Alpine Root, and he'll stomp, making a block fall that you need to use to get out of the area. But if it's nighttime, he'll be asleep, and there's nothing for it but to wait, and pity the poor player who gets to the SnowHorn to give him an Alpine Root just as he falls asleep. I suppose you could go grab the Staff Magic Meter extension if you haven't done that, or go gather the GrubTub Mushrooms about. Though speaking of, the upside of nighttime is that the GrubTub also sleep then. During the day, they're alert and hop away from you. You can still hit them to stun them, but it can be frustrating. But like I said, they sleep, making them trivial to grab.

[@Stratelier]

Skyrim gets a lot of flak for simplifying its mechanics compared to previous entries, but Sleep deserves a mention. By default, you gain a "Rested" bonus for interacting with a bed you can sleep in, which is a minor buff to your EXP gain. But if you enable "Survival Mode", periodically using Sleep is required to cleanse the "Fatigue" debuff that accrues over time, and it's also required to actually Level Up your character (similar to previous Elder Scrolls games). At the same time, it means you can't "delay" a Level Up either, or "save" it for use on-demand like you normally can.

[@maddockemerson4603]

True, but worth noting: Survival Mode is a mod that was added as a basic feature to Special Edition and probably subsequent releases. The vanilla game just has the XP bonuses, which I think are sufficient considering the leveling experience can be pretty satisfying so you generally want more XP, not less; and it gives a considerable cost to being a vampire or werewolf since you can't get the Rested bonuses; but also it's unobtrusive enough that players who don't care about minmaxing or life sim elements can ignore it if they want to.

[@Shrooblord]

Pokémon's Dream Eater move and especially a Haunter's Hypnosis into Dream Eater combo is one of my fondest memories and strategies in Pokémon from a young age. Thanks for putting _exactly_ that combination in the video :')

[@opera_ghost8504]

I got immediately emotional at the start of the video upon hearing the NiGHTS music

[@TheOrian34]

Sleep is the best time to rob people in skyrim. And feed... And train skills...

[@oldcowbb]

and absorb dreams

[@DeeJamari]

I'll have to play it again, but I remember not being bothered by the Drop mechanic in Dream Drop Distance. I may have even enjoyed it. It's a race a against the clock; do as much as you can in the time that you can. Thinking about it now reminds me of Kirby AirRide's City Trial mode.

[@kriskris5907]

Man I feel like one of the only people on this planet who really didn't mind, and even kinda enjoyed the 'drop' system in Kingdom Hearts 3Ds- I liked the pacing getting shaken up, and it made combat feel more varied and less grindy to be popping back and forth between different skill sets with different characters. And honestly if you're paying attention, it's really not hard to avoid dropping at a really inopportune time. I even have a friend who buddy-played the game with her husband, where she played Sora and he played Riku and they passed the game back and forth between them each drop, and they had a blast with it.

[@Cuiasodo]

I'm a big fan of how games like Cyberpunk 2077 or Valheim handle sleep and rest. Cyberpunk doesn't require you to sleep, but sleeping gives you a buff to your skill exp accumulation for a real-world hour (likewise, you get other buffs for eating, drinking and showering) Valheim also doesn't require sleep, unless you want to fast-forward time through a night cycle, which is often a good idea in the early game. But, if you rest inside of a house, you get a rested bonus, which gives you a stat boost. Sleeping fills up the timer in that stat boost faster. Furthermore, the better accomodations you build for yourself, the longer that rested bonus lasts, which is vital for a game where you have a huge map to explore and can't always jog back to base.

[@caiosantana169]

In oxygen not included (ONI) sleep works as follows: Sleep is a requirement for the characters you indirectly control (dupes). If their energy reaches zero they will fall asleep at any time where they stand, but mostly they will sleep according with their schedules and you can set these, you can do so they all sleep at the same time and give you all potential labor in one go when awake up at the cost of having no labor during part of the cycle, or you can have suboptimal labor but during the full cycle by unaligning their schedules so they sleep at different times. Also sleep can be a buff or a debuff on their mood. There are negatives such as: sleeping on the floor hurting their backs, light being around getting them unrested unless they are afraid of the dark, some dupes snore making all dupes in a radius untested, and narcoleptic dupes will fall asleep randomly for a few seconds during the cycle. The positives are: having a bed keeps their moral neutral, but having an area designated as a bedroom gives them a moral boost and the fancier the bedroom the bigger the boost, additionally the way decor works in game duplicants will get bad decor or good decor the longer they spend in low or high decor environments respectively, so making a place they spend a lot of time in (like their bedroom) gorgeous will give a big decor buffer for when they need to go through ugly areas later in the cycle; but the inverse is also true, a hideous bedroom will make it very hard for one to keep a dupes decor positive let alone high. There is also the pajamas mechanic with the somnium synthesizer (I think that is the name anyway), wearing them make your dupes worse at most forms of work but during their sleep it produces a special resource that can be used to grant buffs and such, it is nifty.

[@Paddy-if3nd]

What happens in Dream Drop Distance if you finish one campaign, but still have a bit of the other one left to do? Like enough that you can't finish it in one cycle.

[@theMifyoo]

So a thing I have been figuring out how to do is to manage sleep in a multiplayer survival world. A idea I have landed on is local time. Basically sleeping advances time within a local area. The area gradates out to the global time. I am thinking that a special type of creature will spawn that will massage time back into place. A thing to note is the game is magic heavy.

[@matteste]

One little bit I think could have deserved a mention is that how in some games, the sleep ailment allows you to recover HP and MP while it lasts even if inflicted by an enemy.

[@jaywalmoose9623]

Sleep in OneShot is used fairly uniquely, but it'd he spoilers to explain it much, so I guess you've gotta go play it now. I don't make the rules. It's got fun mechanical consequences in Bug Tales as well, where sleeping heals you every turn on top of just preventing actions. You're able to build around sleep and have a damage sponge that's constantly regaining hp. Rainworld has a fun spin on it too, where sleeping is both a save point and a goal. Generally you're trying to find the next safe place to sleep, and have enough food to survive the hibernation.

[@rainbowfisho1086]

In Cassette Beasts, a Pokemon-like game, the sleep status effect is really unique. Instead of just not being able to attack at all, you get three really powerful attacks as replacements that have 1% accuracy. So you can even implement strategies into raising your accuracy by a lot, and then making yourself fall asleep, so you can take advantage of the powerful attacks it gives you.

[@metalclawsteelheart]

It's kinda ironic that I'm watching a video about sleep mechanics, while pulling an all nighter. On the baldur's gate point: this is mostly how it works in actual dnd, with a long rest taking 8 hours and completely refilling spell slots, health, and class features (things like a paladins smite or a bards inspiration die), and a short rest allowing you to use up hit dice, with thr size determined by class, and ampunt determined by level, however, you don't just roll it all immediately, every short rest, you can chose a number of die to roll, and then you heal the total number, but once you use a hit die, you can't use it again until you long rest. However, there are certain prerequisites that affect sleep, if you're playing as a warlock, a short rest gives you the benefits of a long rest, and if you're playing as an elf, you only need to meditate for 4 hours to long rest, instead of sleeping for 8.

[@DaikoruArtwin]

Meanwhile, Pokemon Sleep uses IRL Sleep as the main mechanic :V

[@tomcurl8034]

Pokémon also has an attack called snore, which can only be used while you’re asleep, which is great to have on a Pokémon with the move rest, which puts your Pokémon to sleep while healing them

[@thejimjamjimmyman]

my favorite use of sleep in videogames is probably in the yo-kai watch series! If the player doesn't sleep to skip over night time it increases the chances of terror time happening, and in the later games you can set alarms for quests instead of having to wait until the in game clock passes. In the 3rd game sleeping in BBQ can trigger zombie night, which is it's own fun mode :)

[@familiarnamemissing3382]

This is more related to status effects and healing, but I like how in Hylics 2, coffee gives you a “caffeinated” status which makes you invulnerable to sleep, rather than just curing it outright. I guess the insomnia thing from Pokémon sounds similar, but I’ve never played those. …I’ve never played Hylics 2 either.

[@Luanmm]

In pokémon, Insomnia is an ability, which means it is an innate trait of some kinds of pokémon. So you can't just make any pokémon immune to sleep easily. There is a move move called Worry Seed which effect is to change the ability of any pokémon it hits into Insomnia, so this would be a way to get immune to sleep. Another way would be to change the terrain in which the battle is happening: some pokémon or moves can change it, and if it changes to electric terrain or misty terrain, all pokémon become immune to sleeping (yours and the the foe's mons)

[@Twisted_Logic]

World of Warcraft is a classic case study in sleep mechanics (which I'm sure you've heard a million times, but it's worth telling again). During playtesting, characters got reduced EXP if they went too long without sleeping and players hated being obliged to sleep. So the devs, without changing any of the underlying mechanics, changed the presentation to be that you got bonus EXP for being well rested and it went over much better. The Elder Scrolls also has a long-standing relationship with sleep. In every game but Arena and Skyrim resting was necessary to level your character up, and like other RPGs sleeping healed you but also could trigger random encoubters/events.

[@Youmu_Konpaku_]

In assasin's creed black flag, sleep darts are crucial at some missions to take out the guard snipers who may alert the entire place Subsequently, you unlock them halfway through the game by a story involving tribes

[@steelerfaninperu]

When I was peak Square fanboy discovering new feelings for the first time in the 90s, I played Brave Fencer Musashi. And I quit about an hour in after falling asleep like 3 times.

[@CherryDad]

Kinda surprised narrative function wasn't explored more. Dream sequence levels, or surprising the player by doing something to them while they're sleeping. The Dishonored Outsider levels occurring after Corvo sleeps are a big example I can think of.

[@WeskAlber]

You kinda contradict yourself on one point. "You don't need to tutorialize what Sleep does as much compared to other statuses." Meanwhile an entire video of the many different ways Sleep gets used, and a VERY surface level look at how it is used in RPGs. While people understand the concept of "sleep" they also understand the concept of "scary sounding debuff" on the same level. Downsides and upsides are completely up in the air depending on the game. I ask the same questions for Scarlet Rot as I do for Sleep. Does it add a damage multiplier? Some games do. Do enemies have specific moves that capitalize on sleep? Some games do. etc etc. I'm just as worried about what sleep does to me in any game as what Poison does to me in the next game. Since, we all understand Poison too. But "poison" has a dozen different possible effects.

[@FioreFire]

I would never deny Kirby a chance to take a little nap, he deserves it

[@gumbarius]

My favorite version of sleep status effect is the good ol' long stun, but wakes up on the first hit taken with double damage It's cool and all in Monster Hunter, but I feel like it's even more interesting in group fight games, where you have to evaluate whether you wanna use the immobility or the damage effect

[@emmettracine8310]

The Trails series has an interesting relationship with Sleep. Mainly shows up in the Cold Steel games, but once sleep is inflicted, enemies are immobilized. You have two options from there. Wait for them to wake up after a set number of turns, taking that time to set up buffs and debuffs, Or you can hit them waking them up immediately but you score a guaranteed Critical hit.

[@Flash33c]

In Potion Permit the game runs on a day/night cycle, and some events are only available at certain times and days of the week, such as Mon-Thurs from 8:30-14:00 for example. When you go to sleep normally you always wake up at 6:00 the next day. However, if you stay out too late the chemist (your character) will stop what they're doing and pass out, forcing a forest ranger to carry you back to your house and causing you to get a late start by waking up at 12:00 the next day. If you were in the middle of foraging or fighting when that happens then too bad, your progress on that task is reset. Notably the MC has different waking animations for both: stretching refreshed for a normal start, disappointed for a late start. It makes for an interesting risk-reward system: do I stop here and go to sleep now or do I risk it and press on for one or two more hauls? Speaking of sleep in Pokemon there's also the 100% accurate move Spore which sleeps the target instantly, though not many mons get it. Also starting with gen 6 Grass types and mons with the Overcoat ability are immune to powder and spore based moves such as Spore and Sleep Powder and the Effect Spore ability (contact may inflict target with Sleep, Poison or Paralysis), and the Safety Goggles held item (also introduced in gen 6) not only gives spore and powder move immunity but also protection from weather damage (i.e. Hail and Sandstorm). That being said how sleep functions depends on the generation, as in one gen it may last 1-3 turns and reset upon switching out while in another it may last 2-5 turns and not reset upon switching out.

[@gumachurchill4873]

I don't know if you take suggestions, but can you make a video on cooking or crafting mechanics?

[@DJDarkDarsi]

15:37 as much as I love P5, Mr Go-To-Sleep Cat was just a bit of a pain

[@jokerofspades-xt3bs]

i like how the harvest moon games handle sleep, it is technically possible to never need sleep. but you get a full energy restore when you do sleep and also sleep helps serve as a way to skip days if you dont have anything to do

[@temporalwolf7054]

The sleep multipliers in FF15 are so incredibly frustrating. Like, on paper it sounds nice, and like a nice benefit, however using the camp sites that do not give any multipliers actively punishes you for not going to a hotel. And given there's character moments and story bits in the camp sites specifically, makes it a choice between "Do I want to be better equipped to take on bigger challenges, or do I want the story bits and sign up for more grinding?"

[@jamesrivas6715]

Seeing sleeping as a bonus rather than a punishment remembers me of Undertale giving you like 40% extra HP if you go to a Room in the Hotel or the Inn

[@DarkMaker75]

Dungeon Fighter Online (beat 'em up MMO) has an equipment set where the player intentionally puts themselves to sleep in order to reduce the cooldown on their skills.

[@StarryKnightPinkle]

Is it weird that I like the way megaton musashi’s sleep system works? I think it work better if it was used in another genre.

[@terrysyvertson9205]

also in Pokemon, the move nightmare cases a pokemon's health to lower after each turn a bit as long and the pokemon inflicted with nightmare is asleep and has health left, the move sleep talk let's the user randomly use another of their moves if they are asleep and the move snore causes damage put only works if the user is asleep