What Makes A Good Rival Boss?

[@DesignDoc]

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[@JustinBrown-hq2yb]

Can you do what makes a good final boss? Please

[@DesignDoc]

@@JustinBrown-hq2yb Planning on it.

[@_Dinoboy]

Design Doc - "Use Opera GX!" Me who is watching this video on Opera GX - "I am 4 parallel universes ahead of you"

[@lptimey]

@DesignDoc I don’t know how many sponsor-requests you get and how legit most of them are, but you should know that opera is a privacy nightmare. They have full access to all the stuff and content (like messages) in their sidebar and send a log of you every search to the Chinese company that 100% owns the (I think) Swedish one. My source sadly is in German (theMorpheus) But anyway the video itself was great

[@Walamonga1313]

My gf doenloaded tha one a couple days ago and the idiots managing it decided to have some random ass jumpscare on it. Lots of people have complained about it and switched from Opera GX to Brave or Firefox

[@keeganseck7751]

I like Woolie's quotes about Rivals: "Fear the guy with the same powers as you, but a cooler jacket." and there was one about slowly walking towards you.

[@CrocvsGator]

"You can't have an Olympics unless you discriminate by race" -Woolie in the KOTOR LP (For context he's talking about Star Wars races)

[@CasualCoreK]

"oh fuck he has a complementary color scheme to mine I'm gonna fucking die"

[@emperormegaman3856]

It may be common, but the rival with similar power, but he is a edgelord just works.

[@MagusDouken]

I wish to say Nemona is the bad side to Childhood Prodigy. Her skills are really high for her age, but now she has no one she could share the excitement with. Her classmates sees her as Champion, not as Nemona. So when you come in, showing a spark of potential, she puts her main team aside to go through the journey again in hopes you could keep up and join her where she felt alone.

[@BJGvideos]

She also hates being called a prodigy too. She feels it acts like everything comes easily to her when it doesn't. She fought for that strength and people think that it's just something inherent to her

[@dominicmoisant8393]

Too bad she uses Glimmora last instead of first and doesn't use Kingambit last, that would be an actually decent fight compared to the joke she was. Arvin gave me more trouble than her

[@MagusDouken]

@@dominicmoisant8393 ... Except that is all about Geeta, not Nemona. Not only that, but with the last update, her rematch fixes that set up as well.

[@dominicmoisant8393]

@MagusDouken oh whoops lol, well I can't even remember the Nemona fight so it must not have been that memorable then

[@MagusDouken]

​@@dominicmoisant8393 And my argument is on her character, not on her team setup.

[@aceofblades1677]

For one-sided rivalries, I have a soft spot for Jr. Troopa from Paper Mario. He could've been a simple, one-off tutorial boss, but making him a random, stubborn recurring enemy ended up being so much more fun.

[@Folutu]

Personally, Jr. Troopa is really memorable because of two things: 1. He doesn't quit 2. He changes tactics pretty much every time he fights you again, generally making a key change that invalidates a tactic or strategy that you used to beat him the last time.

[@CringeAnimePFP160]

I was a little disappointed when he replaced the koopa bros, though. I love those guys and I really thought I was going to fight them again😥

[@gamergonya9212]

I prefer Mr. L. But I agree that jr. Koopa is a good boss

[@SphericAlpha]

In my opinion, great rivals in gaming is those that you at times want to get better than, improve with, challenge or overcome. Personality, lore, storytelling are all ways to make rivals just that much better

[@adams0123]

Hornet from Hollow Knight is my favourite of this category. She is your first major road block and when you fight her later she is faster with more attacks. Beating her second fight also allows you to go to the Abyss.

[@AllTheOthers]

A rival needs to be on par with the main character, whether that be just as mysterious, or just as well written.

[@RaidenKaiser]

Or kicks your ass like Virgil from dmc 3

[@YaBoiJonesy]

Sam from MGRR is the perfect encapsulation of this, he's extremely cool both in narrative and design whilst confusing the player as to why he chose to work with THESE guys. He challenges both Raiden's philosophy and his skills.

[@RaidenKaiser]

@@YaBoiJonesy it's a crime Mgr wasnt a bigger success than it was back then all because some ass holes said it was too short and the game bombed because of it. The genre Mgr was entering was known for being short its unfair to the game when most hack n slashes like this rely on replay ability over long campaigns to fill play time.

[@PangolinMontanari]

WB's patent on the nemesis system briefly struggled to go through because the patent officer at the time knew about Crusader Kings, which has a similar but more in-depth equivalent. So WB pulled some strings and had them replaced, and the patent went through.

[@Force-Multiplier]

It's disgusting that they can do that man such a good system should have never been allowed to get "patented" aka monopolized and whats worse this was done by people who build their own games copy pasting other studios in a shameless manner too

[@OrigamiPhoenix]

​@@Force-MultiplierGames in loading screens were subject to such a patent until it expired. I think it was owned by Namco. This did not benefit the consumer in any way.

[@IdiotinGlans]

Capitalism breds innovation /s

[@sera_kath]

Software patents are morraly wrong. It's disgusting through and through. They should not exist. A lot of these patents are never used by their """owners""" again anyway. They only limit creativity and innovation. Software and modern digital technology are moving to fast to lock away ideas for two decades.

[@demi-femme4821]

I feel like patenting game design should be illegal.

[@EmeralBookwise]

I always hate being reminded that there's a patent on the nemesis system. It's such a game changing innovation full of so much potential for iteration, but it's completely lock down by a single company in such a way that make it to dangerous for anyone one else to even try developing anything that might be deemed too similar. Worse still, WB is mostly just sitting on it as an exclusive aspect of their Mordor franchise, when it could also work so well else where. Like, imagine a Batman type game, where common street thugs start developing quirks and gimmicks until the player has their own personal rogues gallery.

[@deeps6979]

5:10 I appreciated Namona. Girl loves the fight so much she goes New Game+ just to raise a rival for herself. That's dedication.

[@MousaThe14]

Yeah, agreed. In my opinion Nemona is probably one of the best of the modern rivals, and definitely in my top 3 of all rivals, nearly perfectly balancing the aggressive driven rivals and the friendly rivals.

[@magolor152]

I do like her backstory and wish there was more elaboration on said backstory in the victory road path itself, it probably would've bumped that path up narratively imo.

[@DanPankrat]

I don’t like Nemona. Her “I won’t let you out until you’ll fight me” makes her REALLY ANNOYING

[@雪者]

​@@MousaThe14I actually enjoyed her a lot, lol

[@Shakzor1]

She is basically Hisoka from HunterxHunter. Ultimately she doesn't give a fuck about you, she wants a battle to satisfy her

[@Kriskirby1992]

Zero from Megaman X is a perfect example of who you want to eventually become, he comes in and saves you in the beginning and throughout the game, grow stronger and gain some of his attributes until you're in a situation where YOU have to rescue HIM

[@cericat]

Bass aka Forté before him as well.

[@patrickbaillargeon1933]

Wario is an interesting case where you first fight against him without any real build-up and just minimal context, but he then gets to build himself up with his own series of games.

[@castform7]

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't mind Wario being a boss in another Mario game, only now with some Wario Land shenanigans.

[@fernandezadrian156]

There's not a lot of context but there is some build up, his stage is the hardest of the game and the level to fight him is always available to visit but you just cannot access it, you can only see him on the top of the castle, almost taunting you.

[@Stathio]

There's a ton of context- the entire story of the game is him taking over Mario's castle while he's away saving Daisy in Super Mario Land.

[@MousaThe14]

WB’s patent on the nemesis system is one of the worst things. A beautiful system that would benefit so many games everywhere restricted by a corporate patent. There are probably developers everywhere chomping at the bit to use something so innovative. It’s Procedurally generated depth! It’s one of those things that makes video games a unique platform for personal storytelling experiences! One of the ways that makes Video Games unique as an art form compared to all other mediums! It’s being stonewalled by WB! Patents are a great invention for protecting the creations of individuals, but corporate patents like this are a blight.

[@xilverxoul6917]

In fairness, they are well within their right to do so with the patent. That being said, it still sucks that it is a thing and is infuriating that despite the patent, they aren't doing anything with it!

[@polocatfan]

​@@xilverxoul6917actually they apparently were denied at first because the patent officer knew that a different game did it first. so they bribed the patent office to have someone else review the patent.

[@xilverxoul6917]

@@polocatfan I never head this. What is the name of the other game?

[@DracoGalboy]

​@@xilverxoul6917crusader kings (can't remember if 1 or 2)

[@meneldal]

@@DracoGalboy As much as I love Crusader Kings, I have to admit their implementation is much less complete than Shadow of Mordor, there's very little growth and not so many repeat encounters. The biggest thing is you get different interactions and can duel them, but it's not a core part of the gameplay.

[@pmsherndon]

Emerl from Sonic Battle. The whole plot revolves around him being one of Eggman's robots that went rogue and is helping Sonic and friends. He's a self-learning robot that mimics his opponents. In gameplay terms, you can get cards for beating certain characters and equip them onto Emerl to change his moveset, copying other characters. He maintains that moveset through each campaign, and the final battle is Emerl vs Eggman. But after you beat him, Eggman flips a switch, reprogramming Emerl to be back on his side. Now the true final battle, you as Sonic, have to defeat Emerl with the exact same moveset that you gave him for the previous fight. As a kid, I thought that was one of the coolest things in any game

[@mchess7412]

While you do fight Emerl several times with the moveset you gave him, in the final battle that is not the case, there he uses all his ultimate moves at once.

[@pineacadit8447]

I love the final Ganondorf fight fromTotK. Sure, he isn't build up in the same way and literally is the final boss, but seeing Ganondorf Flurry Rush for a change is priceless.

[@stein46]

I was like WAIT HE CAN DO THAT TOO? when he just started flurrying my flurries

[@Andrew-hz5zc]

Such a perfect way to bring back the classic back and forth tennis matches with Ganondorf, but with a new flavor.

[@tonysladky8925]

Man, I need to get back into TOTK.

[@goranisacson2502]

@@Andrew-hz5zc ... I hadn't even considered that Ganon Rushes are the modern equivalent of Dead Man's Volley. Even though you CAN beat back his magic attacks in this game as well, trying to overcome his rushes feels way more tense... thanks for the insight!

[@Mordalon]

Hades also has a couple examples of Rival characters. Theseus is one of the later bosses and, in addition to being another demigod, also can call on the aid of gods in the fight. Hades himself is also a big example, as many of his attacks and mechanics, including the ability to come back from 0 health multiple times, are superior versions of your own abilities. He even gets his own Companion ability in the form of Cerberus if you do the absolutely hardest version of the fight. Both of these bosses even have the narrative of antagonizing you verbally throughout the game, further motivating you to beat them.

[@alexursu4403]

Zag's Boiling Blood ? Inherited it from his father. Death Defiance ? Also from Hades. Companions ? Here boy. Even more so when using a spear, especially Aspect Of Hades.

[@characookie241]

Please tell me 'multiple times' is once on your first go, I haven't gotten past his phase 2

[@alexursu4403]

@@characookie241 Spoiler: that is Extreme Measures 4. Normally he has only one Defiance.

[@Mordalon]

@@characookie241 Yeah, Extreme Measures 4 is the "true" final boss, at least to me. It's here he says he's using his full power, which he used to fight the Titans, and it's after beating all 3 phases that he's truly impressed.

[@superbro6413]

Shadow of Modor's Nemesis System truly is one of those once in a decade great game ideas, currently shackled to a singlular publisher for the foreseeable future, with no plans to be iterated upon further You hate to see it

[@Rilobster]

V2 Ultrakill is perfect as a rival. its an exact reflection of your abilities, even, ESPECIALLY your movement. in a movement shooter full of bulky demons, your skill check comes from a sassy red sleek agile robot.

[@ianhubble9973]

Not to mention that so far, he's the only enemy capable of using your coins against you

[@ClockworkBees]

The fact that he's actually the underdog in that scenario, too. He's the only other you, but he's also less experienced, built for durability over regeneration due to being developed after some war or other was finished instead of in the middle of it, and he's the one playing catch-up. In both fights, you have more tools than he does, even after he expanded his arsenal to keep up. It's a small but really cool element of what, despite all that, still amounts to one of the more difficult bosses in the game, since a less experienced mirror of V1 is still a mirror of V1.

[@jaw6542]

this fight took me soooo long because he kept perfectly copying my moves. if i tried using a coin, he shot it, if i shot a magnet on the ground, he filled it with nails that hit me. It was an amazing fight where every atempt you develop your strategy to counter yourself.

[@matcroaks8953]

To quote Max0r: "It's simple in that he has your moveset... But complicated in that he has your moveset."

[@epic_g4mer]

Speaking of new blood games, does Jakob from dusk count as a rival boss?

[@janthejetplane5668]

I really appreciate the inclusion of Bug Fables in the background gameplay, i adore everything about that game and i think it deserves way more recognition that it gets

[@LarvalGhoul]

As a lover of Paper Mario and Hollow Knight, Bug Fables checked so many boxes that made me fall in love.

[@PaulPower4]

In some ways, Bug Fables offers some representation for a couple of different kinds of rival: the obvious one (as brought up briefly in the video) is Team Mothiva, the constant thorn in your side, but the other one only shows up in the postgame: the superbosses of Team Maki and Team Slacker. Stalwart allies throughout the game, now that the day has been saved it's time for some "friendly" sparring matches... against bugs who respect you, know exactly what you're capable of, and won't hold back. Team Maki even has a similar fighter-rogue-mage structure to our heroes, and while Team Slacker only has two members they also pull some of the meanest tricks, most notably using items that normally the player only gets access to like Queen's Dinners (for those who don't know: restores health to the full party, restores "magic" power and cures all status conditions) and Magic Seeds (the revival item). And they are of course refightable, making them perfect training grounds for new build ideas. Suddenly you have two new rivalries after the main game has ended...

[@toomanydewgongs]

I think one of the hardest parts of designing Rivals in video games is that often times, losing to them isn't an option. I think we'll really start making rivals more complex when we have more games where the story doesn't stop just because your rival beat you once or twice.

[@breloompauncher5593]

Ironically Pokémon Yellow does this but never again. The first two fights against Blue can be lost, and your record determines what his Eevee evolves into. 2-0: Jolteon 1-1: Vaporeon 0-2: Flareon It's a nice little touch because Jolteon is considered the most dangerous of the 3 because crits are determined by speed and Jolteon gets Pin Missle which is also likely to hit all 5 times and crit all 5 times because of it's speed. On the other hand, Flareon is considered the weakest because of how many weaknesses it has, being slow as balls, and it's lack of access to a fire move outside of fireblast.

[@toomanydewgongs]

@@breloompauncher5593 Funny enough, I knew that you could lose to Blue without the game ending, but I didn't know it changed his Eeveelutions! I always thought they were determined by how many badges you had when you fought him, lmao! Thanks for the fun facts

[@theschnozzler]

​@@breloompauncher5593actually if you lose twice he has Vaporeon. That's because he gets cocky and picks the eevelution weak to your starter Pikachu however if you win twice he picks the one that resists your electric moves.

[@bandit5130]

Got to say, I'm going with the rivalry of Kirby and Dedede. Both of them had learn something from each other, Kirby learning more moves with hammer and Dedede learning to inhale and float. now if Dedede can stop getting possess, maybe the rivalry can spark up again.

[@Leee275]

The fact that Vergil isn't in the thumbnail is surprising.

[@Cheesegirl31415]

Honestly both Apollo and Shizuka from Crosscode are excellent Rival bosses Shizuka serving as the narrative climax to the story with lots of build up and Apollo acting as the silly guy you beat up every so often

[@ShallBePurified]

20:17 Crosscode is so good. I hated the rival because he keeps wanting to fight me and I wanted none of it, and I couldn't beat him. After a certain major turning point in the story, however, he shows up again to fight, and I literally stood there and did nothing. I felt it was in character for Lea to feel so dejected after what happened to her she just didn't want to try. And I was surprised at how he reacted afterwards. He actually stopped his tryhard persona when he saw Lea just being broken, and it was heartwarming when he tried to cheer her up. This game got me to feel for pixel art characters.

[@GabrielReid-st6ix]

I've been playing a game called Tales Of The Abyss, which is a little unusual as instead of one Rival it has six, one for every member of your party. More than anything, it helps make the villains easier to remember if each one is an evil version of one of your guys.

[@MFGod_Hand]

Lea & Apollo's rivalry in Crosscode is one of my favorites. Especially because it's almost entirely one-sided at first, but Lea's attitude eventually shifts quite a bit in the other direction through his persistence.

[@salamence6828]

And then once more by Gaia's Garden. Interesting to see how different Lea's expression is comparing the three different duels.

[@MFGod_Hand]

@@salamence6828 Lea: -_-" ...hi.

[@salamence6828]

@@MFGod_Hand Yeah, I know Lea. I'm sure you were reeaally pumped for every Apollo battle... (Sarcasm)

[@QizLizWiz]

Shoutouts to being able to make Apollo livid in NG+ with damage cheats

[@angeldude101]

Apollo is fun as heck, both as a character and as a boss, though it's the other rival in CrossCode that stands as one of my favourite boss fights of all time. Most of what makes Apollo's fights great also apply to the other rival, but add on the fact that both you and her have full access to all elements and level 3 Arts, the absolutely gorgeous setting for the fight, and the shear _emotion_ behind it, all help elevate it to a whole other level. Also, whereas Apollo will setting for a fair win or loss in the Best 5 out of 9 duels, _this_ rival won't take no for an answer and will rematch you _immediately_ after either winning or losing (unless you're evenly matched, as mirror images should be, in which case the fight ends in a 4-4 tie).

[@aguncomon]

While Final Fantasy doesn't have many "rivals", in my opinion both Sephirot from VII and Golbez in IV are done especially great. You get to know them little by little, not a lot of fighting until the real deal, but they get built up in such a way that defeating them is a personal achievement at the end of the journey

[@CrisZ87]

What about Squall and Cifer from VIII ?

[@aguncomon]

@@CrisZ87 i mean you could also say that about Tidus and Jetch on X. Most final bosses of FF are developed alongside the game story

[@Mordalon]

Llednar from Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced is a big example of a rival. He doesn't have a ton of a personal story but his existence is a major part of another character's motivation.

[@dracotias]

The 13 games get a lot of flack but I ADORE Caius as an agonist in 13-2 (and like minorly in Lightning Returns)

[@zidaryn]

​@@aguncomonI'd say Seymour is more of a rival in FF X, with all the battles there are against him. But he's more of a nemesis than rival.

[@BingQilin]

I'm so glad you mentioned Hop. The guy tries every which way to beat you which includes boxing his Wooloo at one point That's like Ash ditching Pikachu in order to beat Gary

[@BonaparteBardithion]

I like the recognition that the MC is Hop's rival. He's the one with a personal journey against an obstacle of, unfortunately, his own making. He was really just looking for solidarity in his rivalry against Leon and got sideswept. The MC seemingly just joined in for the fun of it.

[@haroldnecmann7040]

I remember him, is that the guy who like shoving masaladas down ur throat😂

[@BonaparteBardithion]

@@haroldnecmann7040 No, that's Hau.

[@pringledcheetos5040]

It's really funny that boxing Pikachu actually*is* what Ash did when he beat Gary

[@gmkgoat]

And he still got dumpstered at every turn. Barely a step above Wally.

[@laggalot1012]

Here's a Pokémon idea I want. Flip Nemona's concept on its head. Let us train our own rival. Start rudimentary. Have them make some simple team choices reactively to what the player uses, like matching up types to your early catches. Then maybe go a little further. Have them ask the player questions where the answers influence how the team develops. Like, maybe move and item choices? Bonus points if you're given a way to gauge its performance, and get rewarded if it does well. Maybe make the player occasionally trial their team or something to add extra incentive not to sabotage it. It's just a rough idea, and probably more work than it'd be worth, but I think it's fun to think about.

[@BJGvideos]

That sounds fun. Like a more intensive Wally story.

[@zjzr08]

Sounds like if Sawyer - who wanted to follow Ash in Kalos that eventually became a challenge to him in the anime - was a game character IMO.

[@voidkingofswing]

Tales of the Abyss has Ashe the Bloody, and he's a pretty great Rival fight imo, because he can do literally everything Luke, the MC, can do, and MORE. He can cast actual spells, while Luke is a pure melee fighter, he's got connections with 3/4 of the playable characters, and a final fight that really shows how connected he is with Luke by [SPOILERS BELOW} using his Mystic Arte, his super move, only when YOU try to activate yours, but it goes BOTH ways, and Luke can steal HIS Mystic Arte. It's a great rival fight, and one of the best I've ever faced.

[@haroldnecmann7040]

Ashe is the real luke I am ur fatger

[@WhiteFangofWar]

If the rival is really good they can even get their own games eventually (Wario, Shadow, Bass...). One of my favorite rival characters is Janus Cascade in Wild Arms 3. A Drifter like the main team, he quickly becomes a recurring cynical nemesis of protagonist Virginia Maxwell (who has a closer dark mirror in Maya Schrodinger as well but Janus gets more development) by pretending to be a friend only to turn on you in pursuit of his goal ('because that's just how the game is played in the wasteland!'). That goal being to live forever in people's minds as the world's most notorious outlaw. He gets stronger with new moves every fight, even defeating you in a hopeless boss battle once. And he even looks and fights like a meaner version of the previous game's protagonist. He also backstabs enough people to compete with fellow gunslinger Revolver Ocelot, who counts as a series-long rival to Snake in his own way. Surprised you didn't bring up Gladion, the opposite extreme to Hau's laid-back attitude towards Pokemon battling taking it far too seriously.

[@cardcrown8202]

Don't forget his banger of a boss theme.

[@laggalot1012]

As a loose extension of the rival concept, *rival parties* can get pretty interesting, and you'll see these fairly frequently in more typical JRPG's, and especially if it's a class-based battle system where many of the boss characters also adhere to that class system. One example I can think of is in Bravely Default, where later in the game, you can fight combinations of bosses that you'd previously fought individually to gain their classes, but now they work together and synergise the way your party does, using all the same abilities you acquired from them. It's a cool way to create some unique challenges, depending on the boss combinations you must deal with (like, say, status ailment spam) as well as doubling as a showcase of party compositions you could try yourself.

[@kurovah5475]

I really liked Hop's character arc. It's a nice lesson to kids as well.

[@Mordalon]

For a more recent game, Armored Core 6 has great rivals. While there are a few characters who you can battle multiple times throughout the game, Iguazu is the one character that is basically trying to overcome you throughout all 3 playthroughs, all leading up to the NG++ third ending boss being him having been assimilated into Allmind.

[@kevingriffith6011]

Armored Core in general has a ton of great "rival" characters, but that's because every AC you encounter plays like a rival character: you can do everything they can if you just build your AC to their specs. The ones that you communicate with really do stand out, in one mission they're your ally, in the next they're your enemy. Heck, Armored Core 1 is all about pursuing someone who you think will be a rival to you but turns out to be... something else.

[@SirStarPancakes]

It's actually worth noting that in the Shadow series, just killing a guy ISN'T always enough to keep them from coming back and building up. I decaptitated an orc TWICE and he kept coming back, once I killed him mid-fight, and the fight went on so long that he had respawned and rejoined the same fight. In fact, he came back from the dead so often that he was actually a legitimate threat with all the bonuses and tactical improvements the game gave him. Now, admittedly, this doesn't happen all the time, but as someone who was "mediumly good" at the game, I still had rivals in the series. After all, those orcs take everything personally, even stuff like killing their best friend or twin brother.

[@AntiNihilist]

I still think Shadow is one of the best, even with his gameplay. Sure, it feels glitchy and chaotic, but that feels very appropriate for two beings that can go the speed of light at their top speed.

[@lavenzavantas]

Nelo Angelo in Devil May Cry and especially Vergil in DMC 3 were basically a turning point for rival fights in action game. he is the quintessential perfect rival. first encounter, he beats you. second encounter, you've both grown stronger and have new tools to fight with, the match ends on a draw. final encounter, he's pulling all the stops, using every move in his arsenal and is ruthless, but you manage to win. it's pretty simple but extremely effective. there's a reason Vergil is the standout fight in every DMC game you fight him, because it feels like you're fighting another player (especially with the crazy shit he can pull on higher difficulties). he's an absolutely fantastic boss fight in every game he's in. plus, you can draw tons of parallels between him and Dante in the story, really enhancing the rivalry aspect, and encouraging you to beat him. many rivals in other games have tried to copy Vergil but few have actually equalled him and he has yet to be surpassed imo.

[@Serlock4869]

Because Vergil is strong, you're fighting a strong rival, not just a simple rival that you can overcome with power alone. And you can play as him, with his real arsenal, and feel his strength! Then dmc5 elevates it one more level. You can fight Dante, and while you're thinking that you're stronger because you play Vergil, well, Dante is strong too here! It become memorable then because it's hard, and you fight a strong rival with a strong character, then feel satisfied!

[@leithaziz2716]

The strength with Vergil's rivalry is that it pushes Dante to becoming a more fleshed out character by being a foil to his personality. Dante loves to party and stylishly make fun of his enemies. Vergil is serious, blunt and doesn't like to waste time in killing his enemies. But this also goes deeper. Dante fully rejects his demonic heritage at the start, while Vergil embraces it to seek more power. The difference is that Dante learns to accept both his human and demonic half, becoming a more responsible person, while Vergil fully succumbs to his aimless lust for power. It's a ying/yang relation that leads to further exploration of the brothers' mindset.

[@superpnutbutter8608]

@@Serlock4869 I think being powerful, yet you gotta fight someone who's just as op as you are is so awesome. It's why many RPGs (gacha too, and that's a good thing to be turned off by mobile games that made for making money rather than a good ass game) are turn off for me. It's something I have to overcome, not some stupid numbers tell me that I can't do it because it said so. And when you and the boss are crazy strong, the fight is gonna be even crazier. And it's weirdly fair fighting bullshit with bullshit.

[@s.kanessuperbiatv6464]

I like how the Dante vs. Vergil dynamic is the reverse of the typical rival battle. Instead of fighting a tough boss that you have to overcome with speed and wit, the player is the tougher one fighting an antagonist who's faster / wittier. Dante was always the stronger character that Vergil tried to outwit and outtrain, but he's always outranked by Dante's sheer strength

[@thomasffrench3639]

@@superpnutbutter8608since I get bored of grinding pretty quickly, I tend to have minimal grinding when I play, which makes the challenge actually appear. So I would recommend minimal grinding. The main challenge of the best RPGs is resource management, so grinding less can help a lot.

[@whathappenswhenimbored]

It might be a weird thing to want, but I wish we could lose to the Pokemon rival. Make the battle a one-time thing and the result sticks win or lose. I like how you can lose the first fight in most Pokemon games and I wish that continued throughout the other rival battles.

[@gingivere8326]

Scarlet and Violet did that. You can lose to Nemona and the game will just continue and dosen't make you refight her.

[@PokeMario-pk4ot]

In the modern games (I believe it started in gen 7), you can actually lose the rival fights and continue the game. The only real exceptions to this rule is the final fights, which you do have to win

[@Luchux177]

Yellow did it and that changes what Blue's eevee evolves into.

[@whathappenswhenimbored]

@@gingivere8326 Shoot really? I guess I never really checked if I could lose to her, good to know. Hope they continue with this in future games.

[@Mordalon]

I lost to Hau in one of the fights in Sun/Moon. I don't remember the specifics, but I hadn't saved in awhile and wasn't prepared for the fight but the game continued anyway so I didn't both to go back to my last save and try winning the fight.

[@E_Fig05]

I really wish that Wario was in more of the 3D Mario games as a Rival. It would be super cool to have him use the moves specific to his games like the Shoulder Bash as attacks against Mario.

[@samtronvic]

You had his theme as your background music... Dark Pit is easily one of the best rivals in my opinion... I don't know if it's because of nostalgic reasons or if it's because his encounters are actually good, but I was shivering in excitement every time I saw him

[@YouCanCallMeIz]

My personal favorite rival fights are the fights against Jin and Yuki Terumi (in all their forms) across Blazblue. Most of them have quite a bit of story significance, so when you hear Ragna get angry and go "BLAZBLUE ACTIVATE" you not only think to yourself "Hell yeah" but you also know why he's so upset. The fact that both of those and a few other fights in the game have specific musical themes is just the icing on the cake. Something that really stands out about Ragna's rivals often have mechanics and thematics that mirror his. Like how Jin is a similar archetype to Ragna, both being all rounders with slight differences in their strategies, or how Ragna and Terumi both drain their opponents resources to further their gameplan. Hazama (terumi in a bowler hat) literally has the same power as Ragna, and Hakumen (totally not Jin) is the "White Void" to counter Ragna being the "Black Beast". There's a bunch of other "rivalries" in the game that make it feel so alive. Somehow, in a game where anyone can fight anyone, they give legitimate meaning to most every fight- especially in story modes and arcade ladders. BB is peak, as per usual.

[@silvermoon2608]

The thing I love about crosscode’s rival battles is that you aren’t required to win to progress the story. It goes on even if you lose, and your rivals keep track of how many times you’ve won and lost. Sure, you can just reload your save and try again, but I felt like fighting them knowing that losing was a real possibility actually pushed me to try even harder to improve, exactly like a real rival would

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

One rivalry I found interesting due to how unconventional it presents itself is that between Lloyd Irving and Kratos Aurion in Tales of Symphonia. It's very much one-sided given the sheer gap in strength between the fledgling swordsman and the older, battle-hardened mercenary, but as Kratos agrees to take Lloyd under his wing a sort of friendship emerges from it, only to get (seemingly) utterly shattered when he betrays the team. Everything else that happens going forward serves to build on this complex relationship until Lloyd faces him at his full power in the Torent Forest (after which he either spends the rest of the game recovering at Dirk's house or joins the party, depending on a choice made at Flanoir). At the end, Lloyd manages to reconcile his feelings toward his mentor and rival, and is sad to see him depart at the end of the game.

[@crystalqueen9711]

"Wally is a sicko" Wally: *looking at his medicine* "Yes...ha ha ha ha ha ha...,YES!"

[@IWADsarecool]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[@TheKirbyAnimator]

Meta knight is cool, especially in adventure. He first just sends the meta-knights to attack you, but he still helps you on your journey by giving you items. In the end he fights you as a boss but still gives you a sword. It’s a battle of skill with no cheap shots

[@Mordalon]

Transistor by Supergiant Games has an interesting mechanical implementation of the Rival. Royce doesn't appear for most of the game but is mentioned more and more as you go along. The Transistor is the weapon your character wields and allows her to "take a turn", what is essentially freezing time similar to V.A.T.S. and planning out attacks. This gives you an advantage over most enemies that is basically unmatched. Until you get to Royce, who has one of the best prefight lines I've ever heard from a boss. "Who's going to go first? How about... Me" immediately followed by him using the same power you've been using the whole game to unload a bunch of attacks on you. It forces you to totally rethink your strategy and loadout.

[@eos7053]

My adoration of hop will be noted despite him having a small segment in this video. The youngest sibling energy made it to me and I'll gush about it. Having a sibling who's run everything before you sets so many expectations upon you to do what they did but better. I like that his conclusion to the rivalry is finding being a professor in the future, which suits him perfectly. But it takes *time* to find out what you want, and following your sibling feels so easy at times. The fact that he accepts the crushing of his dream which births a new one is just so good. He's easily my favorite pokemon rival. It's not even close.

[@egpNoodlez]

A really memorable rival can make a game really shine. I was already a From Software fan, but then I fought Genichiro in Sekiro and that rival fight was just done so excellently. I died a lot, learned a lot, and it's one of my favourite all-time boss fights now. I think what really did it for me was realising his JP VA is also Seto Kaiba in the Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monster anime series.

[@atsukana1704]

I really love the nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor/War and probably ends up being the most memorable part of it. One part that was neglected to be mentioned is that in Shadow of War they actually improved on the design by allowing some people you fight or try to dominate to resist death or domination, and instead become stronger by it. All of a sudden you have this guy you wanted to kill and he comes back as “the machine” having replace parts of himself you cut out with new metallic bits. And now he has made it his life’s mission to hunt you down for what you did to him. I have seen one character come back as many as 5 times and each time they got a bigger posse and got significantly stronger which made the fight a lot crazier. It seems like in these scenarios they make you TRULY finish them off. Like not just one final swipe but preform a combo finisher that completely annhialates them. It honestly made for a cool experience that really helped where it used to get stale.

[@scatterbrain8764]

I agree. The Captains that cheat death and become Maniacs are usually the biggest thorns in my side. I remember Ashgarn the Punisher, the first Captain who killed me in Minas-Ithil on my first playthrough. I did countless Vendetta Missions to put him down for good, and every time he just got right back up - even gaining the Survivor title. When I went back to Minas-Morgul with the ring, I got the idea to try and shame him down the ranks until he lost that title and stopped cheating death. Didn't work - I made him a Maniac, and then he ambushed me at Gorgoroth as I was heading to the final mission. It's all well and good having a nemesis beat you down and constantly stay a step ahead of you, but putting that shoe on the other foot is another great way to make even more memorable encounters.

[@MagusDouken]

I love the one-sided rivalry Apollo has with Lea in Crosscode. He suspects you hacking because circumstances caused you to have too much extra exp, and down the line, he more tends to test you and himself on which is better at handling a Spheromancer class. Hell, he hardly even registers her name until halfway through their bouts.

[@furiouscorgi6614]

And in the Arena battle, he does the same trick you do. Pretend to leave himself open, and once you hit, pop a Level 3 Guard Art

[@SpiffierShindigs]

I was so sure they'd finish fleshing out the Lumen Sage mechanics for Bayo 3 so you could go back through the story as him. It was one of the things I was most excited for - I took it as almost a given. Then again, I took arm/feet weapons, Wicked Weaves, and her voice as givens as well. 🤡

[@alexanderthegreat4817]

Apollo in Crosscode is a great rival for most of the game, and every time I saw him I burst out laughing honestly

[@Tr0lliPop]

That "Nemona is Goku" hit me like a FISSURE in the face man, well done

[@appointmenteer]

the rivals in hades are amazing, functioning as the boss fights of the underword regions. since hades is a roguelike, you have to fight them over and over each time you die, and you really get that sense of rapport with them. its really fun to see the dialogue and different ways of interacting change as you fight them more and get better at the game. you really do feel like rivals with how you banter with each other and build up the conflicts. (the exception is the bone hydra, who really is just a “hit many time monster kill” enemy. its still fun but not quite a rivalry. but i woud strongly argue that all the others count.)

[@mardelmarcano]

Thank you for making this video. I'm actually creating my own sibling rivalry within my own project. I had to take a look at it again after seeing your video. I think I captured the backstory and desperation but the rivalry in my game isn't the main plot of the story but it's there to help build character progression and grow them as an individual. I specifically took note of how frequent it is that they have their rivalry. It's good to have them throughout the game and not to be tossed to the side and the buildup and payoff wasn't worth it because there wasn't really (much story telling or) a connection between the rivalry. In my project I actually liked that I included a flashback to show how the rivalry started and why these characters do what they do. So just thanks for your videos. Really helps me point out small details and what I can improve on as a writer.

[@ratio1037]

Agnea's final chapter fight is against her rival and its a decontextualized dance-off essentially that gets accompanied with the song of hope you developed over your journey

[@ArcCaravan]

The part on procedural rivals made me think of the Chosen from XCom 2. Powerful recurring enemies who get upgrades over the campaign until you permanently defeat them, otherwise you temporarily beat them or run away. In general a rival who you can lose to sounds real good, not just a preordained result for the plot. Maybe change circumstances to have rivals be allies as well as foes.

[@TheSuperNerdsShow]

It's not quite a rival fight, but there is a chapter in Kid Icarus Uprising where you play as a different character and have to fight Pit, and it was very memorable as the moment I realized how comparatively overpowered Pit is in comparison.

[@Razsac]

I love how you can actually lose fights to Nemona and the game just keeps going without making you retry. You can legitimately take an L for once and the story continues

[@Eichro]

Silver in GSC is my favorite rival, with his amazing lines like "The trashy strolling is an eyesore"

[@Gabe_29]

It's not really a rival, but I love the one on one battle with Asch in Tales of the Abyss. The battle is not as flashy as some other games, but in the context of the story, it is really a masterpiece. You, as Luke, fight Asch 2 times in the story. The first is one being at Luke's lowest point, where doubts about his actions and his own existence are put to the test. It's a scripted battle where you're supposed to lose (you're able to win, but even so, the next cutscene has you fainting). This battle then starts a constant thought in Luke's mind that he should not exist. Then they face off at the end, where Luke has come to terms with the circumstances that brought him to life. He has accepted who he is and stands up against Asch. From a storytelling perspective, it's really emotional and tragic because spoilers...

[@ReloKai]

An underrated rival fight is the final fight vs Higgs in Death Stranding. It basically turns all of the mechanics you learned throughout the game into a really awesome 1v1 fighting game. Super memorable. Also, I'm really enjoying my Fight That Guy mug! It's really good quality. Kinda wish there was a shirt too but...eh! Thanks for the content Doc!

[@IIPM6500]

Idk if there’s a game out there like this already, but I think it’d be fun to have a game where the main character gets to be played most of the time, but during some rival encounters the game forces you to play as the rival and win a fight or two against the main character, as a way to establish the two are on roughly equal footing/strength levels.

[@whtiequillBj]

@20:10, a patent application isn't a be-all-end-all. Nintendo holds a patent for the NES controller yet, Sega and Sony were able to iterate on it and do it just differently enough to not infringe. Also you didn't read the patent it expires in 2038, that is 15 years not 20.

[@Rainkea-fr]

i really love ghirahim from the legend of zelda: skyward sword. in the first fight he is so full of himself, his confidence is through the roof and he even tells you his litle plan because he is sure he will best you in combat. after you beat him he gets a litle bit upset so the next time you meet him he just summons someone else to take you down while he is hunting down zelda. its kinda hard to explain why he is such a great antagonist, youll just have to play to find out. but the more you beat him and his allies the angrier and fiercer he gets, I also just love his personality through the game

[@HighPriestFuneral]

Agreed, Ghirahim was a treat of a character.

[@frozenover_exe]

Henry Cooldown was always an interesting case to me. You go through the entirety of the original No More Heroes having next to no context on who he is. The game repeatedly builds up his rivalry with Travis, but there’s always this air of mystery to the character. Then you get all the Beam Katanas and get to fight him, and he fights pretty much like a much more aggressive Travis. You finally beat him, and your reward is finding out who he is in the most NMH way possible. Great job guys

[@denstruction]

you briefly showed some footage of kirby vs meta knight but i like that in a game series built around the vast options of power ups that meta knight fights tend to force you to use a specific one and really tests your skill at using it, a jack of all trades vs a master of one

[@thedapperdolphin1590]

I liked the rival from the original Paper Mario, Jr. Trooper. He starts off weak, but he adds more powers with each battle that are specifically designed to counter some of Mario’s abilities. So no two battles are the same.

[@8ogl]

9:09 can we just quickly acknowledge this smooth af transition?? What an eye candy 🤩

[@RSTLegacy]

i always ever since i was a child, loved Rival boss fights, is such an interesting way to create a boss that simply fights by your rules. I usually remember the Doopliss and Mr. L Fights in the Paper Mario Series. Mr. L is a pretty much buffed version of Mario, featuring very powerful jumps, altho it sadly goes down in the second half were it just becomes a Space shooting game On the other hand, Doopliss is very cool, not only because it steals your appareance, but it even takes the trust of your previous allies, so you must claim back all, by creating a new ally and figuring out the identity of the enemy, then it all ends up in a mirror boss fight, were not only he has all of your moveset avaiable, but he also uses your partners against you.

[@firechickenmascot]

Pokemon was the right pick to break things down, but I think Kingdom Hearts has a pretty varied list of rivals too. Between Riku, Vanitas, Yozora, Roxas, and Lingering Will, it feels like some of the hardest enemies in the game are variations of the main character's moveset. I think Organization XIII was made with the intention of having more rivals.

[@aguywithgames3135]

Mostly Riku and Vanitas, having multiple fights with them tied to the story. Everyone else is more on the player to develop such relationships for ourselves.

[@zayneabdelmegid2740]

I think Terranort in BBS also counts

[@maxusheracross9928]

I would argue Hau is a lot better than you’d think, not as a rival, admittedly, but he’s an interesting character. He grew up in a small town in Alola where literally everyone is nice, and the only vague danger is the neighborhood ruffians, who we see immediately Hau doesn’t consider any threat. His life is fun and easy, and the only problem is Hala, who Hau admires and believes he could never defeat. He has no reason to want to be strong, and a subconscious fear of trying to be because he believes he’ll never stack up to Hala. He goes on the Island Challenge to have fun exploring Alola, not to fight. Even then, he’s never under any real pressure. The Totem Pokémon are all trained by the captains, so it’s probably totally safe to fail. When he meets Gladion, he literally can’t even imagine feeling the need to be strong. That is until the Aether House, where he’s forced to protect Lillie. For the first time, he’s forced to be strong, and he fails miserably. Gladion drags him to Aether Paradise where he comes to the miserable realization that this is what Gladion’s whole life is like, and there’s no room for fun here. This is where Hau understands the value of being strong, even if it’s still not his main goal. He decides to finish his Island Challenge, and in Ultra, this culminates in him being the one to face the player for the champion title, notably after an Elite 4 without Hala. He loses, but he’s glad to have had a serious battle with the player. He returns home to face Hala in a serious battle, in order to overcome himself. In the postgame, he’s still a fun-loving clown, but he doesn’t shy away from facing the Ultra Beasts. He hasn’t become fundamentally different, but he understands the value of strength, enough to take some time to compete at the Battle Tree. He and Gladion form a terrific foil pair, and I think his character arc in Ultra feels very well done.

[@hooplah6177]

I once saw someone in video ( cant recall which) talk about how Monster Hunter games create a rivalry system with you and their box monster. Think Nergigante from world. It shows up, you duel it and then it bounces until later. But the video also proposes how you will naturally create your own organic rivalry with certain monsters you struggle with. I felt this HARD with Anjanath. It would chase me through the early jungle and terrorize me in that early game. It felt so good to finally stomp it, and now whenever I see that bastard again it really does feel like a rival. I get such a deep "you again..." emotion from it. Sometimes in the MHW late game, i'd choose to fight the Anjanath again just to prove how far i'd come from when it would have me fleeing in panic from it. My favourite bastard monster.

[@davidbrickey8733]

One nice thing about rival fights is that they're a great excuse to use the "same" boss two or three times in the game, with upgrades each time, without feeling cheap. Often there's an easy fight early on, and a hard rematch late in the game. Almost every boss you showed or mentioned from a game I've played has at least two encounters. Some of those use completely different mechanics (Celeste, RE4 remake), but many just use the same moves but much faster and with new special attacks--and the rematch still feels great!

[@Color_Splsh]

My favorite rival fights are the kirby v meta knight fights, as they're at times more so like teacher vs student fights.

[@crimsonchaos7224]

Fire Emblem Three Houses sort of has a rival situation going on with the two houses you didn’t pick at the beginning of the game. You fight them multiple times throughout the game, escalating HARD post time skip. These battles hit especially hard since these guys who you’re struggling against (and possibly killing) could have been on your team instead.

[@AshenDust_]

And its sorta sequel 3 Hopes does this even better, with your player character from the first game being your rival in this one.

[@bobthebuilder9509]

@@AshenDust_They even go out of their way to explicitly say Byleth is not someone to be trifled with, considering how powerful they are and their own battle music. And, of course, there’s the fact that their final fate decided by your actions also decides the fate of the war too…

[@ghostchannel4766]

I'd argue that if we're looking fir a single face to put to this, The Death Knight is Byleth's rival. Both formerly teachers at the same academy who are pulled together by an inevitable conflict. Recurring enemy, too.

[@JulieLamia]

My personal favourite rival boss is actually in Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, with its flagship monster, Gore Magala. Gore Magala starts out as this anomaly even the Guild knows nothing about, with an ace team of Hunters sent out to gather information on it and hopefully hunt it down. It harasses them and you over the course of the story, ending in finally facing it down yourself and succeeding as your final 4* quest. ... Or does it? In the cutscene that follows, Gore actually gets up and starts molting, turning into Shagaru Magala, a full-fledged Elder Dragon. So the story of low-rank Caravan actually culminates in one final showdown, with you having improved yourself with experience and better gear, and the evolved Magala with its new tricks and strength. As rivalries go, it's pretty simple, but I like that this is done without much else beyond the two of you clashing repeatedly - no dialogue between you two, just it trying to survive, and you trying to take out the threat it represents to the ecology. It serves as a nice little culmination to the "tutorial" of Monster Hunter. Sunbreak tries something similar with Malzeno, its flagship, but it doesn't feel as personal in my opinion.

[@CrazedSeer]

Supergiant games does really well with their rival fights. Hades in hades, the transistor final battle in transistor are both absolutely amazing

[@Mordalon]

Arguable Pyre has a lot of good examples. Each team you go against has a personal connection with one of your team members.

[@avereynakama9854]

Oh, I love the fights against Hades. It goes from "Would you die already!!??" to mutual respect. "How was your day, son?" "Oh, great! How was yours?" Even though you still have to fight him, I love how your motive to beat him evolves with the story.

[@Mordalon]

@@avereynakama9854 I'm not certain if beating Hades with Extreme Measures 4 gets this, but it was after doing this that Hades actually told Zagreus good job. While there is still more to unlock afterward, I consider this the real ending to their story, as Hades seems to finally respect his son's strength.

[@angeldude101]

The shear terror from hearing those lines: "Who gets to go first? How about me." And learning that he can use Turn() just like you've been doing the entire game, and you're only slightly less helpless against his as most enemies are against yours.

[@Emzy013]

Need to see V2 in here - Gets to the end before you - Bows - Reality checks you - Best bossfight in Act I - Loses his arm - Leaves Then in the next act - Gets to the end before you - Cracks robo-knuckles - He shoots your coins. This is personal - Best bossfight in Act II - Coolest phase 2 known to man - Dies and loses his new arm

[@Hyziant]

Major spoilers for The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles I think a good unconventional example of a rival is prosecutor Asougi in The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles. He serves as Naruhodou's mentor in the beginning of the series, so he has lots of defense legal skills despite being a prosecutor. As such, multiple times during trials with him, he uses the typical defense strategy of waiting until a witness or Naruhodou says a contradiction, then objecting with contradicting evidence. I found it really cool when this happens, as you find yourself on the other end of the contradiction objection.

[@DesignDoc]

Asougi is arguably the best prosecutor in the series (Edgeworth and Blackquill are really close too) and it bums me out that I couldn’t really talk about him without it being more of a plot synopsis.

[@BJGvideos]

Oh man I'm part of a group that did a livedub of that and some of us hadn't played before so when he came back after everyone (well, the two main characters) thought he was dead, we gasped!

[@Hazy_Fforest]

I absolutely adore Genichiro from Sekiro. Probably my favorite rival. I especially love how he's an absolute menace and borderline unbeatable at the start of the game, then about halfway through is a really challenging swordfight where you're at a slight disadvantage (and introduced a badass new mechanic in Lightning Redirection), and then at the end of the game is just a joke. It really well shows your own skill development as a player.

[@cericat]

Not really borderline, if you're competent with your parry and attacks already (or playing again from the start without it being NG+ so have it down) it's a pretty winnable fight, you'll still be downed in a cutscene but it plays out a little differently to an outright loss.

[@-nintendad-]

The best rival easily is Joey for Suikeden 2. He’s a party member for half the game, trying to take down a military coup. Not only is Joey the most Tanky battle character, he’s full of dialog and backstory about his and yours childhood together. Right before fighting this coup leader, a shop keeper offers you a rare skill that only Joey can Learn. It’s expensive, but far better than anything you’ve seen before. Then as you enter to fight the coup leader, Joey betrays you and uses the ability you just bought to best you in combat, allowing the coup leader to escape!

[@diegoperea2115]

Final boss of Metroid Dread is a great rival. Raven beak is double your height and has all your same skills + more experience battling.

[@DesignDoc]

I was debating for a while whether Raven Beak counts as a rival because he's right on the edge. Ultimately I didn't include him but when we do Final Bosses he's 100% showing up there.

[@BlueLightningSky]

In Saga Frontier. If you play as Blue, you're tasked to learn different elemental magic and you have a rival who learns the magic element opposite to what you learnt and also recruits his own allies. Then before the final boss you fight your rival to the death and absorb his powers. Or if you lose your rival absorbs your power and you finish the story as him.

[@BonaparteBardithion]

I had a friend that would always deliberately lose that battle because they disliked Blue's personality. It's a fair opinion. In every other campaign the rival is recruitable and Blue wants nothing to do with you. In Blue's story you ARE the bad rival.

[@IrisGarland]

That game and that fight was fucking AWESOME

[@michaelramon2411]

Regarding Pokémon rivals, it's also worth taking a look at some of the anime ones. Ash has had a ton over the course of nine gens, but I feel like the real standout is Paul from Gen 4. He's a jerk with a high opinion of himself, but he's not brash or bragging. He simply dismisses anyone he doesn't respect - which is to say, anyone he views as weak. He and Ash have fundamentally different training strategies, with Paul willing to shelve any pokémon that doesn't meet his standards, while Ash will train and nurture weaker ones because they are also his friends. This is exemplified with Chimchar, which Paul saw had great potential but abandoned when it couldn't reliably reach it. Ash takes Chimchar in and unlocks that potential via love and respect. So Paul and Ash have ideological differences as well as a competitive rivalry. Circumstances also shape their relationship in strange ways, such as when they were forced to team up in a tag-team tournament arc. They end up with a very complex and three-dimensional relationship as they eventually develop respect and learn from each other.

[@maxorsmthn1432]

Wario in Mario Land 2 and Fake Peppino in Pizza Tower are great examples of just how much can be done in the actual battle. Neither of them have any build-up but they both have the exact same moveset as you do, and they both show it off to the player in a really cool way: Wario is the first and almost only Mario boss to use power-ups and Fake Peppino waits for you to attack first only to respond with his version of the same attack you just used.

[@StafkiGTN]

..."The only mario boss to use powerups"

[@StafkiGTN]

..."The only mario boss to use powerups"

[@ericrautio7451]

I've always thought Risky Boots from the Shantae series is a pretty great rival. It's a little odd to call her one considering she's the main villain, but between her dynamic with Shantae and how similar their movesets are (in spite of their extremely different abilities), I'd say she counts.

[@TheOrian34]

I think the most interesting type of rivals is one that not only doesn't "defer" but also wins in the end. There's a sense of dread from bein outplayed that really elevates the rival.

[@zayneabdelmegid2740]

I don’t know if this counts as a rival boss but the final boss of Terra’s story in Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep has the same moves Terra can have, including Shotlocks, blocking and counterattacks, and certain commands

[@cericat]

That's been pretty common in KH overall, ie fighting the AntiSora all the way back in the original and it comes back in Chain of Memories and KH3D, the only advantage you have one on one is it can't use magic. Just don't mistake for Shadow Sora (Neverland).

[@thekoifishcoyote8762]

If Crazy Taxi taught me anything, there's probably a loophole to completely bypass the Nemesis System patent. Nothing super obvious like using a hand instead of an arrow, but maybe there's some nodes on the flow charts that could work just as well if they're swapped.

[@donaghwilson7715]

I think Genichiro is a perfect gameplay rival. Rule of threes, scripted loss first time, hard battle second time, and get to body him the third time

[@Force-Multiplier]

He was only "hard" the first time imo and the second time he's way easier to deal with he just has an extra mode/health bar but by then Okami is just too well equipped the third time he's just on the way

[@Walamonga1313]

I bodied him the second fight, took me 2 tries lol

[@autumnwolverton4154]

My personal favorite Pokemon game, the fan-made Pokemon Reborn, is an interesting case when it comes to rivals. There are three characters who fit the traditional Pokemon rival mold, starting their journeys to challenge the Reborn League at around the same time as you, and fighting you multiple times with balanced teams involving one of the starters. However, as the stakes continue to escalate around them and the story continues to go in much darker directions than the official games, two of your rivals, Victoria and Cain, basically realize that there are more important uses of their time than challenging their friends to random Pokemon battles. Victoria in particular had almost all of her battles made optional in Reborn's final release, given that there's almost always some high-stakes catastrophe going on and it was always kind of contrived for her to insist on battling you at times like that. And then about a quarter of the way through the game, she quits her league challenge altogether because she needs to take over her school, and you don't see her again for a long time. Cain sticks with the rivalry a little longer, but his league challenge was always more of a way to run from his bad home life than anything he took seriously, and he gradually slides out of the rival role and into being a supportive friend and protector for all the various younger kids who've had their lives ruined by the game's villains. The way Reborn's story and stakes are set up, the traditional Pokemon rival role didn't really fit in. ...Except in the case of the third and final rival, Fern. Personality-wise, he's basically Blue Oak turned up to 11, so of course you immediately want to bash his face in the second he opens his mouth. And unlike Victoria or Cain, he does not give a shit about any of the catastrophic events going on in the story around him. He does initially help you fight the evil team, but not really because he cares about the people they're hurting - all he wants is for people to like him, by any means he thinks are necessary. He starts his Reborn League challenge solely because he realized his own sister respects your player character more than she does him, and mistakenly concludes it's because you have a gym badge. He continuously shows callous disregard for the various deaths and other tragedies that happen throughout the story, only getting annoyed when they make it harder for him to keep getting badges. And then he goes and joins the evil team, not because he cares at all about their goals, but solely because he thinks they appreciate his help more than the heroes do. By the time you reach the end of the main story, where the main villain has taken over the Hall of Champions and is about to use Arceus's power to overwrite reality, it's kind of jarring when Fern stops you for a fight at the end of Victory Road and shouts that he deserves to become the Champion more than you. Like... After everything that's happened, he's STILL going on about the league challenge!? Does he not understand what game he's in!? And I think that's kind of why he works so well as a rival - because he represents, in some way, what it would mean to treat Reborn like it was the Kanto or Johto or Galar games. If you refused to engage with the characters and story, and only cared about becoming a Pokemon Master or whatever. His fruitless quest for external validation shows just how empty that kind of ambition really is in the face of the things that really matter.

[@starblade8719]

Kuroiwa from the underrated spin-off of Yakuza: Judgment. He’s not just a rival, he’s the main villain. Most rival main villains can be underwhelming, but Kuroiwa spends the entire game making sure you hate him (No spoilers, play the game) but my favorite part is that he breaks the in-universe rules. You spend the entire game as the physically strongest character, only being bested by guns and deceptive tactics. After the entire game, not only is the man you’ve despised the entire game a very clear manipulator, but his intro in his fight is him KICKING YOUR OWN KICK. The intro scuffle perfectly describes everything amazing about him.

[@s.kanessuperbiatv6464]

I think Majima as a rival to Kiryu a better example, partially since Kuroiwa is only in 1 game. Kuwana has the potential to be a great rival to Yagami, not just in combat but in morality. I really hope he makes a return and doesn't fall victim to RGG's one-off great characters (Kuze, Sayama, Shinada, Tanimura, and countless others)

[@starblade8719]

@@s.kanessuperbiatv6464 Kiryu is great. I was just bringing up Kuroiwa because he’s hardly ever mentioned but his animations and sheer badass story presence is arguably some of the best in the series

[@s.kanessuperbiatv6464]

@@starblade8719 Agreed. I feel the same about Kuwana. Tbh the Judgment series is really great and should be getting more attention. Hoping Judgment 3 becomes a reality

[@josephbutler4950]

Nemona is such a loveable scamp. Great rival. My personal favorite rival is Virgil from devil may cry. Hes the serious badass reflection of the funny badass dante.

[@galactic_c4090]

Duels in TF2 feels like a rival battle to me. You challenge someone from the opposite team to a duel until the end of the round, while still in 12vs12 battle and it also gives you opponent a marker above their head to make them more visible

[@konabos747]

One of my favorite rival rights to play out is the splatoon fight against agent 3. It felt like fighting another player who abused all of the same abilities you had and it was an actually tough and fun challenge that felt rewarding when I finally won.

[@T_kats]

This is honestly the video I’ve seen analyzing the concept of a rival. Many people have this one dimensional perception on what a rival is supposed to be so it’s nice to see someone acknowledge the nuances. Especially within the Pokémon section.

[@PokemonaMoni]

Vorkken is one of my favorite rivals in videogames, I'm glad that you mentioned him. The fact that his team has all your skills but even better. You fight him as you get more and more powers until you have everything in your arsenal and challenge him to an epic final battle. And he even has a good story! He's very memorable to me

[@MisterNSF]

I was hoping you would mention Jr. Troopa from Paper Mario. The guy starts as a pushover and insists on fighting you until a really cool final fight, a fight that retell all your fights against him.

[@matteste]

One that stood out to me was Crimson 1 from Project Wingman. What made him a rather interesting take was how he was basically trying to intentionally become your rival, getting more and more obsessed with proving his superiority over you until he thurougly goes off the deep end, eventuelly turning into one hell of a final boss. Oh, and can't forget Ash from Tales of the Abyss now can we.

[@404waffles]

imo character wise Crimson 1 was kinda lame because of how one sided the rivalry was, all he ever does is show up and yell and insult you and then when you shoot him down he gets all sentimental as if he did anything to earn your respect

[@404waffles]

ok i thought about it and Crimson 1 feels lame because you never actually fight him until the final mission, you only ever fight his squadron

[@matteste]

@@404waffles That's what I mean, he is intent on being your rival yet the feeling is not mutual. He thinks he is greater than he is and it becomes an obsession. yet at the end of the day he is chasing a ghost.

[@leithaziz2716]

I don't know if Owl from Sekiro counts as a rival (especially since Genichiro already fills that role quite well), but I love how his fight was implemented as a mirror to the protagonist's moveset. He can uses shinobi tools akin to your prosthetics and his own counter to your thrust attacks. The main difference is that Owl is a lot more underhanded in his strategies. He'll throw out smoke-bombs to confuse you, bombs that prevent you from healing, spills poison on the ground and even tries to fake a surrender. A small detail I love is that if he you attack him during his surrender, he'll be proud of how much you've grown. It paints an interesting perspective of his relation with Sekiro, and the fight as a whole is able to say a lot through actions alone.

[@garderules2398]

Okay, after seeing this video i HAVE to talk about one of my favorites: Alpha. In PGR, you play as the Commandant of Gray Raven, a self-insert MC, along with your companions: Liv, a kind and meek girl who is the medic of the team Lee, the meticulous analyst and marksman And Lucia: Team's captain and swordwoman. In the very first mission, you encounter a unknown woman that Lucia says "she feels familiar". Boss fight starts and she completely demolishes you, showing her amazing speed, strength and technique. After the fight, she stabs you and Lucia saying that you both are weak and that you still need a lot to learn (typical rival stuff). Some chapters in the story later, you run into her again and Lucia (with some upgrades) prepares to fight her but then Alpha says she's not here to stand in your way, she's interested in something bigger. Lucia still tries to fight her to stop whatever she may be planning to do, but Alpha simply tosses her aside showing that she's still no match for her. Stuff happens in the story and you realize that all of Gray Raven, including you, are more experienced and adept combatants. Lucia finally discovers what was that odd feeling of familiarity she had when she first saw Alpha. She is a clone of her The Lucia that fought and stood by your side in every single moment since the beginning is a copy of one of the biggest threats standing in your way. Lucia reassures you that she'll never go their way, since she knows that Gray Raven will always have her back and help her every step of the way. After that moment of realization you found out, that Alpha is missing. You don't know if she will come back to oppose you again, but knowing she's not present at the moment you feel a little relaxed. In one of the most recent chapters, Alpha reappears causing some trouble in the way, you all head there and Lucia, now stronger than ever, is determined to put a stop to her. When you reach there, you see that Alpha has changed not only in mentality, but appearance too. She looks more powerful than ever and it shows in the boss fight, she uses completely new attacks and uses some old ones with a twist, lightning. Lucia puts up a really good fight against her but you both know that Alpha's holding back showing again that not only she surpasses Lucia strength, but she already has surpassed HERSELF too Honestly, that fight made me root for Alpha rather than Lucia lmao