The Evolution of Mario Kart Tracks

[@DesignDoc]

Thanks to Keeps for sponsoring this video! Head to keeps.com/designdoc to get 50% off your first order of hair loss treatment.

[@floofletun]

unpopular opinion: music park & dolphin shoals are terrible

[@JS-to7bt]

Sadly Nintendo never have a sale on DLC.

[@matthewrease2376]

Hey! RC PRO AM is a fantastic game by a fantastic developer.

[@iBenjamin1000]

if it were me I would simply be the 1 out of 3 guys that does not experience hair loss

[@rachaelgreen1812]

Chose your fate: (No Rickroll s, honest) (lots of Nintendo!) m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGraYp95j8uUjas m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHaVdoeniqydbLM m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWLdnqeEm6aXmKs&start_radio=1 m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3jGp3eHm7R1fZI m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXrQXmR6eKqSr7M m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpqmpXZjerSte9E m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZvTea2Cjq2eraM m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6TXeoaFqdl2h5I m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqfPhmmMaN6Vf9U&start_radio=1

[@JediMB]

I was surprised to hear Moo Moo Farm talked about as a poor track, since I have such positive memories of it, but then I realized that it's like 30% the music and 70% the bug that made it run super-fast in multiplayer.

[@squeenixu]

sorry 70% the what

[@JediMB]

@@squeenixu No idea if it's just in the PAL version, but split screen modes would make some courses run at maybe 200% their normal speed? The ones that stick out are Moo Moo Farm and the Skyscraper battle stage.

[@aluigiFromKart]

@@JediMB i wonder if you have any footage of that

[@squeenixu]

@@JediMB wait, so 60fps with 3 or more players? I'm confused.

[@JediMB]

@@squeenixu My best guess is that it skips frames rather than rendering extra. Probably some code intended to compensate for performance drops that went wrong.

[@TheAwesomeCouch]

The DS kart will always have a special place in my heart. Almost (and I literally mean almost) every kid in my high-school had this game and everyone played with everyone, it was bigger then yugioh and runescape combined at my school. Kids would show up early to play and stay late. Lunch was a made house and every loved it. Even some of the teachers got involved. It was a rare time when the jocks and the goths did anything together. It was a beautiful time.

[@mythras]

Oh boy, when the whole class was on a several hour bus trip for a week long excursion, half of the bus was playing Mario Kart. Two or three groups, it was absolute mayhem, but insane fun.

[@mihi-himi]

it also helped that back then not *everyone* had to have the game. it was easily the most accessible bonding experience for anyone with a ds (everyone. ds was huge)

[@rdowg]

Oh god I miss those days My class all had mario kart, metroid hunters and pokemon, so we were ALL enjoying it I remember we used to have pictochats going all day between a bunch of us

[@Pyco_]

Did the kids who couldn’t snake get bullied?

[@AustinPSmith96]

I get that a left/right flip in mirror mode is way easier to make, but a reverse mode on these newer tracks, with some redesigns to make it work, would be MUCH more exciting

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

Seriously. They've made reverse versions... IN TOUR OF ALL GAMES! At least with the first batch of the new 8 DLC showing off that the Tour tracks can change routes each lap a la Transformed we can get *some* of that but give us a Reverse CC in the main games already.

[@creamthephoenix]

bro going up mount wario would be so so sick 😭

[@vincenzovalvano]

SURELY will be in "MK 10" SURELY. I think it can be considered a sort of " new feature" brought in Tour ;D

[@jeddgangman4502]

Why are you the first to have this good idea

[@AustinPSmith96]

@@jeddgangman4502 I'm probably not the first to have this idea but I bet I am the prettiest!

[@DigitalLeonardo]

Baby Park is still my favourite track. It’s such chaos, you have no idea if the person ahead of you is in first place or last place. Love it.

[@conman-sr5md]

Played Baby Park with a homie on Wii, we were 1st and 4th on lap 6 and finished 10th-11th because of a single item

[@jonborchardt5548]

Baby Park = Honey I Shrunk The War

[@pokemnfan1]

This is a great format for a video, looking at a series' evolution focusing on just one feature. Not talking about the characters, vehicles, or driving mechanics much, but concentrating on the racetracks. There's a lot of other things you could talk about in this format. Like the level select in Mario games, or how the overworld changed in Zelda games.

[@galaxyfam6471]

That’s a really good idea actually

[@frizzyrascal1493]

@@galaxyfam6471 The Zelda Worlds could be split up into a 3D & 2D Video. But it's difficult enough since Ocarina of Time picked up on a lot of things ALttP did right.

[@samufinland5765]

Mario Kart 8's gliding mechanic feels kind of watered down compared to 7, I feel. It used to be like, Meta Knight's gliding in Brawl, but now it just feels like you're moving on rails except you can shuffle around a little bit. I think it was a bit more physics-y, you could go up and down and gather momentum

[@Tredenix]

I've definitely felt this difference as well. There have been plenty of times where I've taken one of the glider ramps on Toad's Turnpike, only for the game to decide that my gliding time is up and it just instantly dropped me to the ground. I don't remember that ever happening in 7.

[@NinetyLegos]

@@Tredenix I've had it happen to me like twice on 7 but that's it

[@apairofglasses775]

Yeah on seven it feels so goof to pull off

[@iexist1300]

Alot of them feel like fancy canons in 8.

[@ShouldOfStudiedForTheTest]

MK7's glider was also as powerful as Meta Knight in Brawl.

[@walterroux291]

I love as a gamer seeing iterative design happen before my eyes. My favourite is when a game from a completely different genre takes a mechanic and the more that happens the more games just get better and better.

[@Alphard72]

When it comes to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's track design I have one major nitpick that keeps it from being the best. Lakitu has grown more and more overzealous in his job, in accordance with Nintendo's general philosophy of stopping unintended play. A game like Mario Kart Wii which lets you play the tracks much more fast and loose presents tracks that I'll look back on much more fondly on. Seeing some of the crazy shortcuts possible blew my mind and I doubt we'll ever get another game quite like it. The coolest shortcuts and shenanigans in 8 Deluxe don't hold a candle and are mostly a product of the new and admittedly excellent 200 cc. Wii is my favorite Mario Kart and has my favorite track roster in no small part because its tracks give me more and more reason to come back.

[@Leo-ex9hc]

I enjoy MK8. I think its tracks are gorgeous and the retros are a massive step up, but it's not quite as fun as Wii from a mechanical standpoint. MK Wii has one of the highest mechanical skill ceilings of any game I can think of, up there with the most complex fighting games. That doesn't always make a fun game for everyone, though, and I think Wii is a little unpopular casually for some stuff like the abysmal balance, the weird physics system (which I adore, but most people won't) and the gigantic gap between skill floor and ceiling, which has been closed a lot in recent entries. The issue is that it's a little too closed off now, with so few interesting shortcuts due to Lakitu becoming a helicopter parent, and there's so little tech in MK8 (and Deluxe cut some of the speed tech like firehopping to boot) that I think it went a little far. I understand the decision, cause it's definitely not aimed specifically at the 1% of people who'll play it for thousands of hours. Some tracks can be a bit less engaging to drive on as a result, but it's still great to play in a party setting. That said, if MK9 is released in 2024 or something (I expect it to be an early flagship game for the next Nintendo console) it'll hopefully hit a middle ground between complexity and accessibility, and I'm really excited to see where it goes, especially with the amazing new takes on retros.

[@Runegrem]

Yeah, it's the same with Mario Maker. They remove any level that they think might contain a bug or glitch, even if it's harmless. They're really not appreciating the troll level community.

[@jasonreed7522]

Part of why Lakitu is so overzealous is that in Japanese culture there is a very strong sentiment of "the intended experience is the best experience" so lots of effort goes into stomping bugs and game breaks. Some western devs (mainly indie devs) will see a bug and go "thats hilarious, keep it" and the end result is a much more forgiving / less railroady game. I'm not saying either option is better, just that its a cultural difference on how much "make your own fun" is a part of the design philosophy.

[@jasonblalock4429]

@@Leo-ex9hc Yeah, I agree. MK8 is gorgeous and has the best overall track designs, but it feels a bit shallow in multiplayer. I still think the best format for Mario Kart games is the 3/DS, because the bottom screen adds extra information to the game and makes high-level races much more complicated. Knowing what items everyone has makes a HUGE difference to meta-play.

[@braydengraves4655]

@@jasonreed7522 Yeah, I can definitely relate to their philosophy. I am an amateur game designer, and until earlier this year, I always felt that if a game needed to have a difficulty select, the designers hadn't done their job right. (with the exception of NG+ modes) It's only after watching an accessibility video from GMTK and realizing that some people need an easier difficulty to even play that I loosened up on that. That said, there is another reason that Lakitu needs to be so strict: It is not a solely local experience. The Ultra-shortcuts in Mariokart Wii were not merely game breaking--if someone pulled one off in an online match, the opponents would lose. End of story. The same goes for local multiplayer, but at least there, your opponents can agree to allow ultra-shortcuts. I think that's the main reason for it, since the remakes of both N64 Zelda games, which came out around the same time, had glitches deliberately left in because they are fun.

[@benvanasdale6273]

Baby Park may be an oval, but if you get four players that are all equally skilled, and play the double dash version, it's some of the most fun you can have in Mario Kart, imo. I love this deep dive into the series... Laying it all out back to back really gave me an appreciation for how much work they put into track design overall. Fantastic vid, as always

[@jj48]

I like that in Baby Park, the course is small enough that everyone is constantly in danger from everyone else. It was such a simple idea but it's really fun as a change of pace from many of the other tracks.

[@BeefPapa]

That track is a heart attack

[@Sanseru2702]

It would be interesting to also talk about the evolution of Mario kart's item design. Red shells worked differently in earlier games, until Double Dash standardized its behavior. Also how annoying is the blue shell until 8 added the super horn.

[@Siinory]

Super Circuit has the best Red Shells ever!

[@micahflanders6789]

You could mushroom boost out of blue shells in some games, so at least there was some way to avoid them, but the super horn is still a welcome item.

[@Siinory]

@@micahflanders6789 in MKDS you could avoid them with a very precise mini turbo (not online sadly)

[@Sanseru2702]

@@Siinory in super cricuit it is nice and weird that if you "throw" them backwards, they remain in place waiting for another player to come near them. Kind of a homing banana.

[@Sanseru2702]

@@micahflanders6789 yes, but unfortunately you don't get any mushrooms in first place in MK Wii, and they are very rare in 8.

[@SuperPaperPokemon]

"TIck tock clock takes you into a clock-themed clock where you need to dodge clock stuff like clock hands and clock pendulums" Why- yes, yes it is.

[@minikipp8549]

i love clocks

[@flying7900]

@@minikipp8549 then remove the l in clock

[@naufanabd]

@@flying7900 vineboom

[@KakanSetra]

I actually like having a 'boring' track like Figure 8 Raceway just as a change of pace, it's the kind of map that for me can be fun because it allows you to focus more on the items than the course.

[@Marshall.R]

They had already done that concept before and with better execution, like with Baby Park which was even in the same game. Also, that kind of track becomes especially problematic if you can break away from the other players and not have to worry about much except blue shells and lightning, at which point it's just extremely boring driving.

[@jomaq9233]

@@Marshall.R it’s not like Smash Bros., where having simple, “boring” stages like Battlefield or Final Destination can be really good for the gameplay

[@willpoweramv]

Easily my favorite thing about Mario Kart is how the music combines with the speed and themes of the tracks. A great example is DK Summit from Wii. Getting blasted out of a cannon, speeding down the tracks and drifting through the mountains and pulling off snowboard tricks with ShyGuys and blasting back down to do it all over again. That's track is a perfect fusion of everything that makes Mario Kart great imo

[@calebdonaldson8770]

Exactly! The intense music mixed with the complex course designs make for a thrilling experience! MKWii was the first entry in the series to have truly baller level design, and a high consistency at that.

[@pikmaniac2643]

As much as I like the most of what 8/8D has over the rest of the series, I'd actually say the DS and Wii hit the highest highs on theming... and music. IMO Moonview Highway should've replaced Toad Turnpike, but hey, maybe the DLC will bring it back.

[@Marshall.R]

To be fair, the previous games had already done their own take on a ton of different possible themes that 8 largely had to try to avoid to make the tracks feel as fresh as they really were. From that perspective, they really nailed it with some picks like Shy Guy Falls and Sunshine Airport tying into their gameplay elements absolutely beautifully. Even some themes that had been used before like "haunted mansion" were changed up enough from how they'd previously appear that the resulting tracks pretty much have a whole new identity. For music, I might have to kinda agree because I think most of the absolute best music is found in Wii, but at the same time the consistency in quality in 8 is pretty unparalleled (well, almost, they somehow fucked up Moo Moo Meadows). Also yes Moonview Highway should absolutely come back, its music in particular is an absolute banger

[@maccamachine]

definitely ds and wii were amazing in theme i really like the look and feel of double dash also though

[@Melecie]

moonview is amazing and among my favorite tracks in wii, so i'd agree, but ideally it'd fit better in leaf or lightning

[@kiaelinkx]

8D

[@Stratilex]

I think 8 takes the cake for course themes... Sweet Sweet Canyon Shy Guy Falls Electrodrome Dolphin Shoals Cloudtop Cruise Bowser's Castle Dragon Driftway Wild Woods Superbell Subway And more!

[@Nrdyco]

Also you forgot to mention that the DS version had a dope feature... You could race against players without needing 2 copies of the game. I loved this

[@pigeonleader]

9:06 Are we all going to ignore this?!?

[@frankyferris]

Hhaahahahahha

[@Mason_van_Bike]

It’s interesting to me that Double Dash still has the highest sense of speed. I miss that.

[@Tredenix]

34:11 I think this set piece still goes underrated even by this video - if you swap to the rear-view camera once you're lined up with the glider ramp, you'll be greeted by what I think is the coolest sight in any Mario Kart game yet. It really can't be appreciated as much from the lower approach angle, so give it a try next time you're on this course if you haven't seen it already (or if you have)!

[@estebanmorales3635]

I don't have the game. How can I find out what you're talking about?

[@professorowblock7812]

22:55 "A robust and FUNKY character roster" I see what you did there

[@Louis_Miles]

What many don't know, in the Vanilla Lake tracks you just have to jump against the ice blocks, thus you keep the speed. And as for the handling and physics of SMK and Super Circuit, you have to make a jump to finish a drift correctly. So drifting is actually child's play in these classics.👍

[@LezbeOswald]

my biggest nitpick for MK8 Deluxe is that smart steering and auto-accelerate is turned on by default. if you turn on multiplayer, you have to remember to get everyone to turn it off (assuming they wanna play normally).

[@FurrySpatula]

Yeah I didn't realize this right away, thought my joycon broke...

[@motorwayt-s628]

Nice seeing Super Circuit getting some much deserved love. Also in defense of Shroom Ridge, that track has a cool risk vs reward thing going for it when you’re on the cliff side where you can either take the inner turns but are faced with dodging traffic and the hard rail-less turns or take the outer turns and not face any of that but risk sacrificing your placement

[@InMaTeofDeath]

I do love my MK, but what I really wish could come back in full force is Snowboard Kids.

[@DesignDoc]

MY MAN!

[@Dzzy123]

I'd love to see F-Zero and Wave Race return.

[@SuperLucky7]

@@Dzzy123 Add Sonic R, Lego Racer, and Star Wars Racer to the list and I think we'd have all the racing games I'd mostly care for coming back.

[@Curlyheart]

Bro I love mortal kombat too!

[@waluigiwah5724]

Do people forget Kirby Airride exists?

[@Florians_Videokanal]

Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:55 Keeps Ad 1:53 Super Mario Kart [SNES] (1992) 6:52 Mario Kart 64 [N64] (1996) 11:05 Mario Kart: Super Circuit [GBA] (2001) 13:45 Mario Kart: Double Dash!! [GameCube] (2003) 18:09 Mario Kart DS [DS] (2005) 22:50 Mario Kart Wii [Wii] (2008) 26:46 Mario Kart 7 [3DS] (2011) 31:34 Mario Kart 8/Deluxe [WiiU, Switch] (2014, 2017) 35:38 Outro

[@samdilophosaur9787]

The last jump in maka wuhu is one of my favorite set pieces of all time, it feels so good to glide all the way down

[@just_ugu]

I think the "boring" tracks help make the interesting ones even more interesting, they just have to make sure they are not a majority

[@FurrySpatula]

I feel like the criticisms of the earlier versions neglect the hardware limitations... To me it comes across like he's complaining that pong was monochrome and 2D

[@Gamebuilder2000]

​@@FurrySpatulaI mean. He's not neglecting them, it's just that they're definitely not as good as their successors because of said limitations This is a video about EVOLUTION after all

[@Gamebuilder2000]

Plus Pong is a game that works best in 2D anyway

[@noahr607]

*Cries in booster pass* Unfortunately that’s my first nagging thought when discussing MK now as the gravity concept has been all but discarded to port/ modestly upscale some older courses. This is still a very engaging video discussing the series as a whole though!

[@noahr607]

Yeah, what really irks me is that the scaling and mesh lod simply don’t fit in with the game’s art direction.

[@AndrewFanton]

@@noahr607 I agree. Though the art direction is consistent with the franchise as a whole, it doesn't mesh well with the existing tracks.

[@AndrewFanton]

@ʙ ᴇ ꜱ ᴛ ᴇ ꜱ ᴛ I suspect that's exactly what they are... I can't blame Nintendo, though. It's more efficient to re-use the designs from other games than to redesign the courses once again to introduce anti-grav. Also, I feel like the anti-grav was shoe-horned into a lot of the original Retro courses. Anti-grav doesn't really improve courses like GBA Mario Circuit, Baby Park, or Toad's Turnpike.

[@Max_G4]

​@ʙ ᴇ ꜱ ᴛ ᴇ ꜱ ᴛ Oh, but they now have Normal Maps! A whole *two* of them. For the entire set of 48 new Maps... (not two each, just two as a whole) That's (combined with the compatratively low poly models) why everything looks like it's made of plastic

[@Haganeren]

@ʙ ᴇ ꜱ ᴛ ᴇ ꜱ ᴛ It may not be necessary to have antigravity in every track but not having it for 48 tracks which will be half of the game in the end is really pushing it imo. But yeah, we will still have cool tracks in the end... even if i already played them to death in Mario Kart Tour...

[@reddy64]

i initially thought that the toad representation in toads turnpike is it's role as a species in the mario games, able to create civilizations, with the mushroom kingdom for example

[@AltairYoshi]

This is an excellent look through MKs history, made me realize just how subtle the evolution is and how nicely it all comes together as the games go along. MK8D really feels like the ultimate celebration of the series, especially with the Booster Course Pass making any track fair game to return for the most part. At the same time though, when you talked about MK8 I can't help but realize the BCP is not intended to match that same ambition Nintendo had when revamping the retro tracks in 2014. While not every track needs a total facelift (DS Wario Stadium is quite excessive in my opinion), tracks like Ribbon Road, Cheese Land and more really prove that you can take an old layout and totally refresh it like never before. With Wave 2 Nintendo seems to slightly be putting some effort to make sure these MKT ports feel more at home with 8, and I'll happily play more Mario Kart, but one can't ignore that maybe, just maybe we could have had 48 brand new tracks that all match the ambition and sense of culmination of the series that makes base MK8 shine.

[@TheGeorgiio]

"GBA Rainbow Road is one of the most difficult in the series" FINALLY SOMEONE ACKNOWLEDGES IT IN A YT VIDEO!!! GBA RR is super underrated and forgotten

[@mortsllaf]

Mario Kart 8 has been out for 8 years!? Damn I feel old…

[@fanb1536]

Really bizarre how you didn't touch on the subject of the gliding's physics changes in Mario Kart 8. I totally agreed with you on how a lot of the cannon bits or launches etc. from the older games felt too automated and like a cutscene, and that Mario Kart 7's gliding helped make it way more interactive; the physics were very freeing and fun in that game. Come Mario Kart 8 though, it's WAY more restrictive. Something about the controls and physics of the gliding in 8 just feels like I have way less options, and as though I'm being carried along on rails - effectively returning to the exact same problem we had from before MK7. The tracks also have way less for you to do while gliding, there's rarely ever anything for you to swerve to the side or anything for anymore; most I can remember is just "glide high or glide low" in the Boo stage, and neither option requires more skill than the other. Additionally while I enjoy the anti-gravity when it's done well in the new stages, I feel like it's a bit shoehorned in when it comes to many of the retro tracks. While it does make them new experiences, well that's just it isn't it? Many of them don't even feel like the original tracks anymore, such as MKDS Wario Stadium for example, with part of the track randomly shoved onto its side and a bizarre pool of water right before the finish line *just* because they felt each track needed to include every single gimmick. Either way, does anti-gravity even really count to be a new gimmick? It's existed in several tracks in the older games, just as part of the track design, like the spirals in MKDS Rainbow Road for example. It's not really something that I see as its own entire new concept that should be in every single track, just only when a track intentionally wants it to be a part of its design.

[@Raging]

I was really in the mood for a Mario Kart video and this just magically shows up in my sub box. Crazy

[@DesignDoc]

Magic

[@jayalriik7421]

One thing that is really strong In DS that doesn't get talked about nearly enough are the karts. Mario Kart Wii felt like a huge step down thematically when it DS you could drive Tanks, Cranes, and Planes. While we can now customize our karts piece by piece, i feel we never got that extreme uniqueness back that DS had.

[@ProjectHammer7]

"Everything made it to the switch" *Cries while rotating the trophies on the Wii U gamepad*

[@Marshall.R]

Also they didn't bring the first person mode from Mario Kart 7, absolutely awful game 0/10

[@flying7900]

well it doesnt suck that much, i would give it a 7/10, also ctgp-7 is an absolute 17/10

[@Coroice]

@@Marshall.R I'd swear it was available on Wii U though...

[@had0j]

i thought you can still rotate the trophy on the switch?

[@Bombedrumbum]

I'm sad that wheelies didn't make it into either the game or the video

[@linkplayer20]

First, neo Bowser city is my favorite track in the series to date. So I'm glad to see it got a shout out. What I'm surprised at though is that there was no mention of the notorious maka wuhu glitch. I was hoping you'd at least touch on it for as an example of how new mechanics sometimes need extensive testing or something to that tune

[@losalfajoresok]

Amazing job analyzing all the game design elements from all the games, this was purely joy for me!

[@toxic_shr00m]

23:15 It's not just up, actually. You can press any of them, and depending on which direction you input, you'll get a different animation. It's a small touch but it goes a long way.

[@ade1174]

Piranha Plant Slide is definitely an amazing example of using the glider and an underwater section in one track. But, as you say, Mario Kart 7's single lap tracks are its biggest contribution. I'll never forget racing on Saturn's rings and the moon in Mario Kart 7's Rainbow Road.

[@cuppacon]

This is one of the best Mario documentaries I’ve ever watched! It’s surprisingly rare to see someone cover specific gameplay or artistic aspects of the franchise, and you discussed track design in this amazing series beautifully! I hope to see you cover more Mario games and their unique thematics in the future! You’ve earned a sub!

[@SapphireCarbuncle009]

As middling as MK7 was, the fact it managed to be as enjoyable and innovative as it was despite it being notoriously rushed is a genuine achievement

[@jman2816]

One feature from Mario Kart DS that's kind of lost to time is the download play feature, where if one player owned the game, other people who have DS's but didn't have the game could still download and play the game on their end. I was in high school when Mario Kart DS came out and it was AMAZING, especially on bus rides and field trips, where we could easily get huge multiplayer Mario Kart matches going.

[@bugjams]

Man I miss double dash. Still the best in the franchise to me. I wish we got back the double-driver mechanic.

[@adampoultney8737]

One of the best things on 8 on the switch is how easy it is to go from having played DS, wii and 7 to seamlessly just picking up the controller and playing. Very intuitive

[@BryanzHAn03]

6:07 I love how Yoshi dodged the Red Shell but gets hit anyways.

[@Aghul]

Man, I still remember going to my best friend's place after school almost everyday in the early 2000's to play Mario Cart Double Dash for HOURS. To this day, this has gotta be my favorite racing game.

[@lethargicAilurophile]

Double Dash absolutely spoiled me as my first console was the GC. I remember really loving the 2p arena areas like the cookie and the giant GC. I remember growing up playing some of the Wii tracks with friends was really an intense gamble sometimes

[@ThePsh07]

Mario Kart Wii was peak Mario Kart for my sister and me. She preferred the wheel; I used the nunchuck. We played two-player online so much and always competed for 1st.

[@elliebee3520]

I’m always glad to see some MK Wii appreciation, also huge props for taking this on

[@singerofsongss]

Design Doc (30:36): “[Mario Kart 7] feels a little reserved and unambitious at times” Mario Kart 8: *_and i took that personally_*

[@HannahHäggAutisticTransWoman]

Double dash I remember playing it when I was 8 with my brother. Having two characters on only one kart was very interesting.

[@element1192]

I know you did not just call the left path in mushroom gorge "more rewarding," nobody takes that path as it is noticeably slower

[@fockd2485]

After almost twenty years I'm pretty amazed at how Double Dash still keeps up visually. Really great choice on art design. On the other hand Mario Kart Wii always looks a bit weird with that glossy blur.

[@thecunninlynguist]

The evolution is beautiful to see. And what is amazing is that even the older games are still playable. A good game of Mario kart on snes is as enjoyable as one in 8 deluxe.

[@hepwo91222]

more enjoyable, NO BLUE SHELL!!! To get back into a race in SMK, make a shortcut. SO feather, mushroom, or mushroom with a ramp hop. Had to be skilled and creative with those items to make a comeback, no mindless blue shell punishing the leader for racing well.

[@Marshall.R]

@@hepwo91222 To be fair the blue shell isn't that punishing in MK8DX if you know what you're doing, besides the obvious super horn you can abuse invincibility frames by precisely sniping yourself with a banana right before it hits. Also on 200cc you can just straight up outrun it a lot of the time until it despawns lmao

[@wookiebear514]

I never realized the GBA Bowser Castle courses' backgrounds were different in the original. It did use to confuse me why BC1 in MK7 color scheme was so different then BC3 in mkwii

[@wookiebear514]

And I either never realized those mushroom cars dropped mushrooms or if I did it has been YEARS since I realized or thought about it. Probably only when I got/beat Double Dash in 2012/13

[@keyboardmaverick1100]

@@wookiebear514 Bowser Castle 2 was in DS. You're thinking of Bowser Castle 1.

[@wookiebear514]

@@keyboardmaverick1100 oooooop. Thank you

[@Congra]

I have such intense nostalgia for Mario Kart DS. I played a ton of that and double dash in my childhood, but for whatever reason Mario Kart DS is the one that holds the greatest memories for me (though DD is a close second). I really like a lot of the future mario kart games too, but the DS game was just so special to me. I think part of it was that I could bring my DS with me anywhere and play games, though I especially loved that it was the first game with online races. I played so many online races, my mom would catch me staying up late on a school night *constantly* because I'd have to get in *just that one last race,* which would turn into several more by the time I finally made myself go to sleep. I got pretty good at the game from playing it so often too, so I think that became a sort of "meditative" time for me. It'd just be me and my banana or green shell cruising out in 1st place a lot of the races late at night laying on my bed in the darkness (if Nintendo sped up online matchmaking back then by substituting some players with bots I'd believe it because I don't know how I was in first so often when I didn't even know how to get mini-turbos back then). God I just loved that game so much though, it really holds a special place in my heart. Double dash does too, I played the shit out of that one as well but for some reason MKDS is the one that captured me. Thanks for bringing me so much nostalgia tonight, Design Doc :) Great video

[@ultimaxkom8728]

Ah yes, the _Wa-_ theme, my absolute favorite track theme ever.

[@SnowPrincessSally]

It's so much fun to compare the games of my parents' generation with mine. My mom and dad let me play the old Mario Kart games and in some ways, they're more fun than the newer ones. I like how in the first two games the blue shell isn't OP and they were a bit harsher. In the original Super Mario Kart, if memory serves correctly, you have three lives and in Mario Kart 64 you have five lives, and placing below fourth place causes you to "rank out" and results in the loss of a life, forcing you to retry the course again. In the modern Mario Kart, you can't get a game over. That said, I kind of prefer the newer Mario Kart games because the tracks and music are beautiful and despite the heavy "luck" element, you need some skill to navigate the courses. I just wish that there were more wild shortcuts in newer games like there were in old games.

[@bananabike279]

Can't wait for someone to create a anti-gravity, underwater course with multiple set pieces out of their own living room

[@KnextGen]

That would be pretty cool, ngl.

[@dewaard3301]

Single lap/section tracks are absolutely the best late addition to the Kart franchise. It gives every part of the track a 'feel' of where in the race you are, instead of just deriving it from the lap number. I hope a future installment will place just single section tracks in a world, where the next race starts in an environment similar to where the last one ended. It could then also vary the length and number of races per cup. Because all in all, that's one thing Mario Kart misses, the feeling of progressing through a larger world; it's just a collection of unrelated 'minigames'.

[@meee_5155]

I love mk8d but I have a couple problems with it. 1. Probably the biggest problem is gliding. You had so much more freedom when gliding in mk7 and it felt so much better. You can really see the difference when you compare something like wuhu mountain’s final segment in mk7 to mount wario’s final segment in mk8. Many glider segments feel like glorified cannon segments to be honest. 2. Half pipes from mkwii are gone 3. Every mode except 200cc feels very slow like the tracks weren’t designed around them but 200cc is a very fun challenge but also at the same time some turns are nearly impossible to not brake on and are hard even with braking such as the last turn on Wild woods and that one turn on ninja hideaway. The only time I remember a turn like this in a previous Mario kart was that one turn on neo bowser city in mk7, which was actually fixed in mk8d. 4. Most of the tracks are great but some are really quite bad. I don’t like: Water park Thwomp ruins Cloud top cruise Bone dry dunes Rainbow road Cheese lane Moo moo meadows Cheap cheap beach Dry dry desert Yoshi valley Super bell subway You might notice that rainbow road is on there. It is a HUGE downgrade from mk7’s rainbow road, which is one of my favorite tracks in the series. 5. Bikes can’t wheelie anymore, meaning they are now basically just reskinned karts, and some even have the exact same stats, which is really disappointing if you compare it to mkwii which had very different stats and racing lines between bikes and karts 6. Funky kong is not back. Enough said. I know I compared it a lot to Mario kart 7 specifically, but it is the most recent one to compare it to, and is also the Mario kart game I played the most of.

[@adamstetler8838]

I liked the character-specific items introduced in Double Dash. Was a fun concept but can also understand why they didn't stick around.

[@enderoctanus]

Double Dash gives me such good memories of playing with my dad. That and Mario Kart 64 are my faves. 64 had my favorite battle map ever which I wish you would have covered. The block fort was just perfect, you felt like you were hunting someone down level by level.

[@jj48]

Block Fort was one of the best battle maps, though I also liked Double Deck. The overlapping layers didn't completely invalidate the map, but it did make it a little less reliable, which was a fun change-up.

[@enderoctanus]

@@jj48 Actually I think I got block fort and double deck mixed up.

[@HALberdier17]

I loved playing on Block Fort my friends. We used to choose a fort and we would spend a few minutes setting traps on our forts before we would go to the other forts.

[@riverfields3563]

1:54 (Super Mario Kart) 6:53 (Mario Kart 64) 11:09 (Mario Kart: Super Circuit) 13:46 (Mario Kart: Double Dash) 18:10 (Mario Kart DS) 22:51 (Mario Kart Wii) 26:47 (Mario Kart 7) 31:34 (Mario Kart 8/Deluxe)

[@thedemonicorangefridge1930]

Man, watching this just makes me even more excited for the DLC. Say what you will about the tracks being upscales of old tracks, seeing old tracks that I love like Shroom Ridge and Coconut Mall being brought to 8 fills me with joy. I'd like to see Wario Colloseum in 8, it's one of my favourite concepts for a track and I hope they'd keep it as 2 laps!

[@SlimbTheSlime]

Coconut Mall in the DLC is a harsh downgrade from the original. Nothing good can be said about it apart from “it is here now”.

[@thedemonicorangefridge1930]

I agree and I don't like how the changes they made either, but for me at the end of the day it's still Coconut Mall and its still a track I really love playing on.

[@Marshall.R]

@@SlimbTheSlime I wouldn't say "harsh", it's moreso just an unfortunate continuation of what 7 was already doing to the track. It's still Coconut Mall, just a bit worse off (and with a huge Bullet Bill extension area lmao)

[@thatiwantchicjen8912]

A couple of things I can't get over. Why the names of some tracks in the UK. Like piranha plant slide is called piranha plant pipeway, DK Summit is called DK snowboard cross, Neo Bowser City being called Koopa City, and music park being called melody motorway

[@Coroice]

One thing I remember being discussed when MK8 came out was just how LARGE the tracks were compared to previous games. It's not a bad thing, since it was necessary for anti-gravity to work among other things, but it's still a pretty striking change. Then when MK8DX came out I remember hearing some complaints about double items breaking the game's balance compared to the Wii U version, since that means items everywhere and chaos. I'd have to go back to the Wii U version to check it out for myself, but it does feel like that on Deluxe at times. I really hope they'll implement a "single item" game mode for custom games someday... Also: is nobody going to mention how kart customisation and character weight can significantly alter gameplay?

[@Tingletonttu]

It's a good recap of the visual themes and mechanics but the video should focus more on how the tracks feel to play. For example Shroom Ridge is a blast to play with constant turns to drift with, you can't just write it off as yet another Toad's Turnpike.

[@awkwardsilence4427]

7:06 What the hell happened in this race to have _5_ CPU characters be dropped in by Lakitu at that random spot on the track??

[@ade1174]

The trick system is so satisfying. Definitely thankful to Mario Kart Wii for adding it.

[@m.m.2341]

It's really hard to go back to Mario Kart 64 for example. It doesn't have the almost infinite drifting or DS and DD and it lacks the newer features too. It was mindblowing at the time, but now it's really stale. Long boring tracks, where not much happens.

[@ade1174]

@@m.m.2341 Yeah, I feel like a lot of people are nostalgic for Mario Kart 64 because they grew up on it when, as you say, not much happens on many tracks. Bowser's Castle is probably the best track in the game in terms of keeping things exciting and having to avoid obstacles, especially those thwomps.

[@ComradeChyrk]

Imo the anti gravity is one of the most underwhelming new mechanics. While looking at an anti gravity track from a birds eye view looks cool, when your actually racing, you don't feel like your upside down or sideways. The camera always makes you feel like your on a normal track.

[@ChrisGorski]

Mario Kart 9 should be Nintendo Kart. Time to fully embrace tracks from all sorts of Nintendo games

[@WritingCountingOriginal]

No. We don’t need Nintendo fanboys taking over lmao. + Mario Kart makes Nintendo HELLA money. Can’t replace it

[@yoshibutimterrariapixelart1923]

I have opinions about so many tracks in MK8! Excitebike Arena's constantly changing runs allows for some cool tricks where you can backflip off of 5 slopes in quick succession, never touching the ground for more than 0.5 seconds! (Yes, that happened to me.) Moo Moo Meadows has had such an upgrade, you can skip the entire monty mole part by gliding to the boost ramp, tricking off of it quickly and then tricking off the monty mole dirt! I live for almost all of these tracks because of how well-designed they are (also, I absolutely adore Yoshi Circuit, it's my favourite track, fight me, I'll absolutely destroy you with my Light-Blue Yoshi/Yoshi Bike combo.)

[@theseatoad5785]

Coconut Mall my beloved

[@austinobambino1360]

YES! Was my favorite MK Wii track, especially loved the mii's in cars.

[@AndrewFanton]

I love the original but I am a little disappointed with the remake. They removed a few elements - for example, the cars don’t move. It’s watered down too much for my liking.

[@KnextGen]

Mario Kart Home Circuit is cool and all, but I feel the Mario Kart Knex toyline to be way better for recreating Nintendo courses, as well as for custom creations. Great video, btw. The evolution of Mario Kart course themes is a very cool topic, and you explained the differences from game to game so eloquently.

[@blacky_Ninja]

I kinda miss double dash. In my opinion it had many of the best tracks, the best driving experience and the two person vehicles with different people having special Items only they can use were a very cool gimmick too. 🥰 Oh and the fake item boxes and the bomb cars. Those were nice aswell 😂

[@Nintentoni]

The fake item box in mkdd is dumb

[@blacky_Ninja]

@@Nintentoni Not if you use them the right way 😏

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

@@blacky_Ninja They are just an objectively worse banana in most circumstances. In the few they are arguably useful such as near item boxes they are still easy to spot.

[@jasonreed7522]

Double Dash is the first GameCube game i ever owned (included with the console), and it will always be my favorite version. I liked the strategy aspect of mixing 2 characters for their special items & cart sizes. (Diddy kong and Bowser Jr weren't allowed together in our local multiplayer since they are so strong and use the baby carts with tons of acceleration) Of course a side benefit of 2 characters at once is 2 players on a cart, 1 driver and 1 item user/thrower. This means a new player can litterally take a back seat and worst case the driver just plays like their item button is broken.

[@SarahJo]

Double Dash will always be my favorite, I played it so much as a kid that the cart mechanics of the others still feel wrong to me no matter how much I play 8 lol

[@shaymininfernape7088]

8:05 toads turn pike represents the dangers the working class face on a day to day basis

[@andrewsprojectsinnovations6352]

The new Switch DLC did add one low point to Mario Kart 8: no more terrible Mii drivers. They were one of the most memorable stage hazards and led to some interesting decision points regarding their positions vs. boost panels. The remake feels so much more bland in comparison.

[@kl8062]

My friends and I played A LOT of Double Dash in college. It's probably the game I've logged the most time on. If we had an hour to kill at home, we'd do an All-Cup Tour. It's such a fun game when there are 3 or 4 good drivers that really know how to use their items strategically. Many friendships were strained over a big banana on the DK Mountain bridge or the general chaos of Baby Park. I really like Mario Kart 8, but Double Dash will forever be my favorite.

[@rob_i208]

Think you should have talked about some of the Tour tracks at the end. I didn't think much of them when I checked it out on mobile, but I especially like Paris now that it's ported to MK8Deluxe. The way that the lap changes every lap in the Tour tracks adds a lot of variety and changes the optimal racing lines every lap. Could have also talked about the addition of larger engine blocks, especially 200cc in MK8 as well as bikes in how they change racing lines. Overall great video, and was already long enough as is. heh 😅

[@TheSenateOfficial]

Such an interesting video! Genuinely fascinating to see how the track design priorities and emphasis have changed. Thanks man!

[@HackerAtesh]

It's a shame you didn't cover the Tour DLC in 8DX. It introduces a new design element with multiple significantly branching paths and tracks that change every lap, something I could easily see becoming the next evolution in Mario Kart

[@AndrewFanton]

Yeah, I would love a follow-up video! So far, I've found the Booster Pack to be rather inconsistent. I feel Ninja Hideaway is amazing and covers many of the elements covered in this video, but others fall short and don't add much to the overall track selection.

[@ade1174]

Mario Kart DS is the peak of theming to me. Waluigi Pinball, Airship Fortress, Delfino Square, Luigi's Mansion.

[@BodywiseMustard]

Double dash clearly the best by a long way

[@skycloud4802]

Yeah I feel that was one of the better ones. None of the gliding or underwater sections. And coins don't litter everywhere in multiplayer.

[@yespa]

The single new thing I'd love to see is that the game becomes a celebration of Nintendo like smash is. Introducing characters like Kirby and Pokemons and tracks themed by different Nintendo games. We already see a glimpse of this in Mario kart 8 since we have the inklings, villagers from animal crossing and link. I want to see Nintendo go all in with this!

[@brainfreeze10]

I find Mario Kart 8's track design so bland in comparison to some of the older games, I'm always surprised to see it get so much praise. This video did help me realize why, actually. Most of the side paths in 8 feel like meaningless decisions and things like gliding and diving feel like they've been homogenized with the rest of the driving so they're purely aesthetic changes, rather than strategic opportunities. Things that used to be used to force you into interesting decisions, like risky shortcuts, longer paths with coins, or ramps that you could trick off of have all pretty much been removed in favor of one main "intended" path that will occasionally split into two identical paths that quickly converge back together. Looking at you playing the tracks here where the entire track becomes a ramp so everyone is tricking no matter what feels so much less interesting than the half-pipe style design of Mario Kart Wii. Popping out a hang glider whenever you're shot out of a cannon is much less interesting that using one to descend down a mountain like in 7. Drifting feels simpler than in DS, DD, or competition like CTR too, so I think you really need to make use of your "gimmicks" to make the driving stand out, and 8 doesn't really do that. Even the removal of basic tactics like timing a boost when being dropped off by Lakitu shows a strange change in priorities to me. Anti-gravity has basically no affect on racing once you get over the cool visuals it provides. I don't know, 8 isn't bad by any means, but it sometimes feels like playing a QTE where I'm trying to just stay on one primary route and occasionally getting interrupted by items, rather than actually making decisions based on what my opponents are doing. I grew tired of it faster than any other Mario Kart (but maybe I'm just old now).

[@m.m.2341]

8 is just extremely polished, but it lacks some of the wackyness of for example DD or Wii.

[@QueSeraSeraaaa]

The DLC are just circuits from Mario Kart Tour.. it doesn’t help either.

[@whataboutmudkips5749]

@@QueSeraSeraaaa actually it does. Tour improved upon track design. 8 tracks are plagued with long straightaway and crappy gradual turns. Due to Anti Gravity it feels like there isn’t any verticality in most tracks. Tour has great track design like Ninja Hideaway and tracks where you go into the high rise of a forest at night or climb up a Christmas Mountain or go onto a pool ln the roof of a building. Not all tracks are hits but not all of 8s are either

[@DuBstepAnDa98]

I'm shocked he didn't mention the addition of 200cc. That mode honestly felt like playing a new game and made MK8 a lot more fun cause I have to actually think and brake when I drive.

[@robin_ice]

I have such fond memories of playing Wario Colloseum. If the 8 deluxe DLC would've included it I would've bought it but I still won't. It's just that good to me.

[@baconlabs]

Man, that was a wild ride! I feel like trying some of the games I skipped over now, like MK7. And I might finally get MK8DX, but only if they update it with the most critical element from the series' history: Pac-Man

[@angrymikko]

Mk8 was the second best selling switch game between pokemons THIS week. It’s crazy how well it still keeps selling. Don’t expect 9 any time soon.

[@Methrael]

The Mario Kart 8 Deluxe version of the old SNES track, Donut Plains 2. Just magnificent.

[@nuloom]

the name "music park" surprised me! i always called it "melody motorway" and imo that is a catchier name. guess it's another sorcerer's stone kinda deal

[@MissingHunter]

I’m hoping the DLC for Mario Kart 8 deluxe picks better 3ds tracks than the first wave did

[@extraladel]

They picked Rosalina ice world and toad circuit over tracks like shy guy bazaar or wario shipyard 😭😭😭

[@WD_RatLad]

Tick-Tock Clock was always my favorite track... other than Banshee Boardwalk.

[@BoucheronsNo.1Fan]

The thing about Mushroom Gorge is, what happens at the gorge, stays at the gorge. It gives and takes, and every time you visit you are sure to find something new. It needs to come back

[@DesignDoc]

Seems likely since it's in tour now.

[@ballisticboo7808]

Glad it's back

[@evanbuchholz4114]

I'm a bit late to the viewing of this, but I can talk to Mario Kart Live! I was definitely skeptical at first, and still think it's over priced, ultimately. But on a black Friday deal a couple years ago, the karts were half off! So it was then or never. And I was beyond pleasantly surprised. This game deserves a video of its own, I would say, and there are probably some good ones out there. But Nintendo is the king of ingenuity and making gimmicks work. For starters, the karts are the best RC vehicles I have ever used. They're super responsive, handle really well, have a great battery life, and drive impressively well on not just smooth floors, but also short carpet. And adding in the camera visual to the Switch screen takes it next level. Watching people drive the karts at 50cc, you'd think they're drunk driving in slow circles. But in the game, it actually feels fast, the courses feel large, and obstacles interesting and somewhat challenging. The computer players aren't much of a challenge, and the race will kind of pause if your kart gets stuck, but the game really shines when facing another live and physical kart. And by the time you get up to 200cc, the karts are truly fast and courses can be incredibly challenging. Even if you use the same route for every race in a cup. The course making can be really fun, but it is tedious and requires a large space for the most fun and creativity. But it would make a single cup take way too long if you wanted a fresh route for every race. The game has tons of little mechanics to make every course feel different though, and it's still very fun, even your twelfth time going in the same oval, square, or figure 8. The range is a little short for controlling your kart, especially if you want to make really big courses with many loops, it may also get the course confused, but for what it can do, it is impressive and fun. You can even kind of set up a multi-stage course by tricking the game with the gates from additional kart cases, but the game may get confused and make it not workout so well. But the cardboard gates, used for the check points, is an extremely impressive QR code, essentially. But very quickly and easily read, and are completely changed in appearance in the game. It's really well done. You do need some heavy paperweights though, otherwise you may hit the gates and move them, causing the course to be messed up. So that is part of the setup and teardown time that makes one less likely to play very often. There is so much more I could say, but I doubt many will read this anyway, so I'll end with: if you happen to find it in a store, especially if it's on sale, and you enjoy Mario Kart, do yourself a favor and pick it up! You won't regret it and it's lots of fun to play and show other people. I wish they would have released more karts for variety and fun, it'd be super fun with more than just two live karts at a time (I think you can do up to four), but the lack of character options is disappointing. Still, it's a fresh and fun take on the Mario Kart game, and one that was largely missed my most people. I hope Nintendo will attempt to revive this one day and fix its flaw, but until then, I'll still enjoy playing it now and then.

[@browk2512]

it would've been interesting to hear more about battle mode!

[@DesignDoc]

Maybe some day.

[@browk2512]

@@DesignDoc I heard about the channel when you (or your brother) was on jeopardy!

[@DesignDoc]

@@browk2512 Yeah that was Mike!

[@SamWulfign]

Neo Bowser City, is my all time favourite track, and it is the best benchmark for skill in Mario Kart IMO, nearly all my friends hate that course and among my friends I can't be beat. Corelation of causation? perhaps XD