Why Shuffling is the Most Important Part of MTG - Part 2

[@chraketcm8608]

If you mash shuffle correctly, it works just fine in my experience. Take around half, slide the edges of one pile into the corner of the other, loose grip to allow cards to drop. As long as some of the bottom pile goes over the top card, it will shuffle randomly. My usual sequence is 3 mash, cut or overhand shuffle once to mix the tops and bottoms, 3 more mash shuffles, again a cut or overhand, and finally 3 more mash, and then offer your opponent to cut. This for me creates a randomized deck. The maths is one of my favourite parts of deck building, I love the challenge of getting it right, so I do take randomization as seriously as you do, I say this as I respectfully disagree with you, not the normal "angry guy on the internet" disagree with you. Great video as always :)

[@atlusfox1531]

You shuffle as a friend would say "soft shuffle". A nice relaxed method. How ever there is a lack of control that takes practice to fix. After all these years I still corner shuffle and for me it works great. I agree that shuffling is important and one of my working mantras is how the deck needs to survive being shuffled very well. So no need for cheating or any other bs.

[@ZasseG]

What I always use is pile shuffle 3 times: 5-7-5 which I was taught was the proper way of maximizing it. Followed by a lot of proper mash shuffle, i.e. you take the bottom half and mash in the middle and then the top and alternate a few times.

[@SyniStar616]

Paused at 9:57. Personally, I prefer pile shuffling, but not in that kind of sequence and never just once before a game. And I prefer that method because I lack the dexterity in my fingers to riff my cards without either flinging them across the room or bending them in half.

[@chrismintram9619]

Disagree with the last method being bad. As long as you ensure the top card is changed by making sure the two piles are offset so that a card from the bottom half ends up on top. It is best used in conjunction with a few cut shuffles as you showed with riffle shuffling.

[@KabukiKid]

Amen! His mash shuffling is almost intended to make it look bad, either that, or he truly can't mash shuffle properly.

[@scottrodgers4409]

I don't bother with riff or pile shuffle, just make sure you do exactly what you described. Make sure the top and bottom cards change as often as possible and do it, AT LEAST, 7 times, I usually do 10. And just to make sure nobody thinks I'm cheating I usually look directly at my opponent's face or away from the bottom of my deck straight ahead, up, or watch an opponent's match to my right or left for 30 seconds.

[@ADPRadio]

Des Can't mash shuffle, done right It's efficient and so satisfying to do.

[@MasterTim1127]

I do a combination shuffle. I start out by pile shuffling a few times. After each pile shuffle I mash the cards together a couple of times, and then throwing in a few rift shuffles. I also make sure to cut the deck every little bit to ensure the cards on top and bottom aren't staying top or bottom. I'm really bad at rift shuffling so I don't like doing it as much, so I came up with a method that seems to work for me.

[@oathkeeper005]

I'm incapable of riffle shuffling no matter how hard I try I always end up dropping large chunks of cards instead of one at a time. It's not my sleeves either, I just can't get my fingers to feel comfortable with doing or release them 1-2 at a time. I typically use what you called the "cheater" method simply because it's the only way I can quickly shuffle with a halfway decent distribution. I almost always use pile shuffling if I recently sorted my cards just to make sure the lands are evenly distributed before a few rounds of actual shuffles. I would riffle shuffle every time if I could but it never feels good and always ends up with clumps of like 10 cards. And every instructional video shows people bending the ever living shit out of poker cards.

[@benrayner17]

oathkeeper005 I've seen a video where the guy took the two halves of the deck and slightly angled them, so it was a sort-of rhombus. Then you just move your thumb up the long side and they should drop.

[@Vearru]

I actually commented last part saying I shuffle similarly to the way you said cheaters shuffle but again I make sure the top and bottom are shuffled around and together and I find it works out pretty consistently for me.

[@Vearru]

Oh and when people shuffle for me I am actually quite happy as I just get to sit there and do nothing when my opponent does all the work unless they are looking at my cards or not randomizing my cards then it is quite annoying.

[@KabukiKid]

Much agreement. Mash shuffling is a great way of shuffling, but you have to do it properly, not at all like it was demonstrated in the video. He just doesn't know how to do it.

[@RzorFox]

The ultra pro matte sleeves shuffle really nicely and are inexpensive. I think if you tried the last way you showed using those you can get a pretty good random shuffle. What do others think?

[@rasmachris94]

this is a year old but dude you just saved me a ton of time and effort, just figured out why my riffle shuffle was all out of whack and it was cause i was putting too much pressuring into the shuffle, relaxed and it worked like a charm.

[@ZoMbIEx23x]

Why don't you riffle shuffle from the sides? You won't risk splitting sleeves and it will keep your cards in better condition. EDIT: I wanted to clarify I don't mean taking a chunk and massaging it into the middle of the deck like you showed. I mean doing a regular riffle shuffle but rotating the cards so the long sides are parallel. The idea with pile shufffling is to get your cards broken up and then riffle shuffling to further mix it up. You should never only pile shuffle.

[@zachtaul1144]

Agree! It's so much easier to keep cards from flying across the table.

[@BenjiByt3]

This video was very helpful for figuring out how to shuffle that way. I've never really known how to do it. It really helped when he said not to put pressure on the backs of the cards and to just let them fall into place, I was suddenly shuffling way better. Thanks.

[@nelsonchandra6193]

Step 1: Bridge 10 times to create randomness Step 2: Overhand 5 times to change the general deck arrangement Step 3: Cut for opponent's peace of mind

[@johnnyandthepnuemoni]

That mash shuffle was like those cheesy "as seen on tv" commercials. lol comic gold

[@DoctorMckay101]

If anyone is interested in the math behind this, Numberphile has a pretty decent video explaining it.

[@zachtaul1144]

Pile shuffle only once to count your cards after sideboarding. Then riffle or mash 7 times to actually randomize.

[@DoctorMckay101]

Des, any tips for getting better at shuffling double sleeved cards? I can't do proper rifle shuffles(as I usually do with my other decks) with them without applying a considerate amount of force, and I do not want to bend a 5000$ Legacy deck(The reason behind the double sleeving is me not wanting this cards to last as long as possible).

[@davidcomer2743]

just riffle shuffle the corners, it doesn't take much force and doesn't stress the cards....that's how my buddy shuffles his legacy and vintage decks, all of which are at or exceed the $5K mark

[@ioioioio5997]

Cards grouping doesn't mean it's not random. That's expected. A truly random deck will rarely be perfectly distributed

[@22781dave]

he mentions that in the vid

[@ddubois93]

Doesnt your technique bend the cards?

[@ImHarms]

Most of the time i shuffle in a similar fashion to that of the last "bad" way you show. The difference is that I get the 2 halves near even, and i usually mix the front and back cards the way you do at 13:55 in part 1. I think this method works, and i don't seem to run into randomization issues. Do you have any thoughts on this method? Also, what would you think if your opponent started shuffling like that?

[@ImHarms]

I'm mainly curious because I'm still relatively new to playing magic with anyone other than friends :P and accidentally getting d/q'd during a more serious game would kinda suck

[@ImHarms]

yeah, i can riffle shuffle poker cards super fast, but every time i try w/ sleeved magic cards it's slow and they end up going everywhere; if i had to guess though, it's probably because i put too much pressure on the middle of the card back... but killing that habit from normal cards would suck XD

[@WindUpEzreal]

I'm not gonna riffle shuffle a $1000+ deck, thanks for the variation...

[@Kaeldo]

in a good pile shuffle you don´t go around the same as you do, you mix it up where you lay down the Card on the piles so it is random. if you go around the same way it wont be random thats for sure.

[@dimanarinull9122]

pile shuffle is not shuffle unless you add a REAL shuffle on top of it. pile shuffle can be un-shuffled without looking at the cards so it's not random. it helps spread the cards if they stick to one another BEFORE OR AFTER YOU SHUFFLE THE DECK!!!!!!

[@dimanarinull9122]

and yes, I mean by sequence, not by looking on every iteration of the shuffle but the sequence is what ruining it. the way I explained it kinda sucks... I hate explaining over simple stuff. just see "unshuffling" or "pile shuffling" to see what I mean. but if you want to go to an even or something and someone say you pile shuffled you may get in trouble cause this is not randomizing your cards in a very good way.

[@Prince_Rain]

Also, make your piles a number that isn't a multiple of your deck size. So, if your deck is 60 cards, do 7 or 9 piles. Idk, seems to help me.

[@actionprime7715]

pro's pile shuffle to count their card before first match and after every sideboad tech-in so they dont get disqualify.

[@weirdproq]

What about 100 card decks?

[@zerrubabbel]

In Pile shuffling, assuming you start with a completely ordered deck, and even assuming you mix it up a little bit in the spirit of randomizing, you can still pile shuffle twice and end up with the same completely ordered deck...

[@narfd.8837]

Pile shuffling is alright for some games, but not good enough for MtG. I instead first pile shuffle and then rift shuffle twice. The potential problem are the lands that are - on a very basic note - 21 to 24 times the essentially same card. If we take it hypothetically for granted that a MtG deck is made of each 10 of the same 2 lands and 10 4-ofs. In that case, your deck has just 12 different cards. I learnt that the sum of different cards should indicate the number of your piles. "At least half the number of your different cards" as a general advice, except you have just a lot of 1-ofs. In that case, you can just count them together as pairs of 2-ofs. After doing that, pile up (in my example above there are 6 piles). You pile up in both directions and with varying placement (which you can let your opponent decide). After that, you pile up again to 4 piles and then manually shuffle it. It takes 1-2 minutes and fixes all problems that pile shuffling has with every TCG with a ressource system like mana. Depending on the game, pile shuffling is even better than other methods. In Yu-Gi-Oh for example, with all its searching and summoning from all different places, pile shuffling is the fastest way to ensure that all your combo pieces are randomized accordingly. Same goes for the Final Fantasy-TCG.

[@joshuawedell3175]

I don't cheat and that's how I shuffle

[@sabenite]

pile shuffling isn't supposed to randomize your deck. its major purpose is to count your deck to make sure that you have the right number of cards in your main deck so that you avoid presenting an illegal deck.

[@Solrex_the_Sun_King]

I mash shuffle, then I cut shuffle and do a mix of them, and that works really well. Like how you riffle shuffled after piling shuffling. It helps to do it at the corners.

[@grandadmiralthrawn8206]

Hey, I'm just a casual player and I don't use card sleeves, should I be using them? What are the pros and cons of card sleeves?

[@martonlerant5672]

Man your math videos are good. And easy to grasp for uneducated, and math haters.

[@jimmyragnarsson2938]

You should watch my friend shuffle. He holds them vertical and starts just sawing the cards down whilst I watch in horror.

[@Bush_Striker_of_Towers]

Let me guess, he also plays vintage.

[@lewelstamp]

I believe you promised charts and diagrams. I see no graphical embellishments! Thanks for the videos, Des.

[@sterrre1]

I mosh shuffle because I suck at riff shuffling... I know I don't want cards to stay at the top or bottom so I mosh a slightly bigger pile into a smaller pile then I cut it the same way you do when you riff shuffle. I also mosh shuffle with the face of my cards facing towards the table and away from me because I don't want to see them. I'm actually more likely to accidentally see my cards when I riff shuffle.

[@dbro556]

I always riff shuffle from the side rather than top and bottom. Then I don't put strain on the top of sleeves.

[@drakengarfinkel3133]

I pile shuffle, but in six piles and once done with that shuffle each pile into each other pile until I have only two piles left. I then cut those piles. This shuffle is more random than your average pile shuffle, but also doesn't bend sleeves.

[@mtgdeckbusters3366]

This is what I do as well. I pile shuffle into 4 piles (mostly to count the cards and make sure I didn't drop any or make a sideboarding error) and then I shuffle the corner piles together into two half-piles and then shuffle the whole thing together multiple times. Pile shuffling should be done once to count the cards - specially at Competitive + REL - but it doesn't randomize the deck. Des is talking about randomizing here and skips over the benefit of counting the cards. He's right that pile shuffling is useless for randomization, thus pile shuffling shouldn't be done more than once. In fact, if my opponent pile shuffles more than once after sideboarding (rather than at the beginning) I would call a Judge for slow play-shuffling.

[@Sephvion]

Pile Shuffle: put down 8 piles, then randomize how you place cards down onto the piles. Don’t go from left to right, top row, then left to right, bottom row, again and again. When done, pick up 2 piles at random and shuffle those together, repeat this and then shuffle the four piles together. Side shuffle: do that 4 times, do a couple classic shuffles, side shuffle 4 times again, classic shuffle again, then side shuffle 2 more times. Never look at the deck. Look at your opponent and concentrate on their shuffling. Riffle/Bridge shuffle: not taking a chance at ruining my commander deck.

[@sanjeetsingh3854]

Do you mean "do" when you typed "don't" since you typed what not to do in great detail.

[@theSkyfisher]

i know to help beat having them stuck on top or bottom like that i'll riff shuffle a couple times then take like 90% or so of my deck and like let a small amount of cards fall in front, then behind, in front, behind then filter waht's left into the middle of the other stack then riff shuffle a few more times and repeat. just to give that little extra randomness

[@calebstringer7548]

Desolator would make a pretty good comedian

[@fryobv]

Is it bad that i've been playing TCGs competitively for 20+ years and i'm just now finding out pile shuffling is horrible?(this has been my main way to shuffle)

[@penderrin1637]

In fact the 2 pile shuffling into 5 piles is used as a cheating technique to get a good opening hand, you can undo it (there is a video by gg degree about how to do it) to make a perfectly organized deck. With this method you need to riffle shuffle like 20 times to get a randomized deck

[@DeltaDemon1]

The trick is to alternate the method of shuffling. Start with piles of 5, then rifle shuffle, then center shuffle, then piles of 7, then overhand shuffle, etc...

[@dentaphon]

Unrelated question, but how would someone get into MTG, and at what age?

[@AwesomeAustin678]

Just in case anyone likes those sleeved and wants to purchase them; they're called KMC Hyper Mattes. Des' was close with Pro-Mattes but that's Ultra Pro.

[@tawatikata9530]

I normally do a pile shuffle, two riff shuffles, a chop shuffle, and then another riff shuffle.

[@eddybuckhorn7411]

Question for anyone who can answer. The only reason I ask this is because it was on XMage and we all know it doesn't always follow rules or do things correctly. SO....I had a Blight Mamba on the field. My opponent cast Zealous Persecution and I responded with Apostle's Blessing and gave him protection from black. The stack resolved and killed my Blight Mamba. Is this correct?

[@sabenite]

yes. protection stops damage, enchanting/equiping, battle, and targeting. the easiest way to remember this is D.E.B.T. Zealous Persecution doesn't do anything that protection stops.

[@fish7678]

I mash shuffle and have no problem. I make sure the stacks are offset and I change sleeves every so often because my corners wear down. It has always worked. Even for my 54 land and 6 nonland deck and my no land dredge deck. In might add my ENTIRE LGS does mash shuffling. Not a single person I know riff shuffles because it takes more time and splits sleeves.

[@3sideddietheory524]

+10 on the starflyer59 intro music

[@DesolatorMagic]

:O you're awesome! :D

[@crazyj6056]

I can't Rift Shuffle I've tried I just I can't do it is there a better shuffling technique that I could use then just what they call them smashed Shuffle

[@hyperlink6547]

the mash shuffle works if you cant riffle shuffle, you just have to do it correctly. the top comment has better instructions on that, but it is essentially an easier way to riffle shuffle. just make sure you aren't looking at the bottom of the deck or the top so that your opponent knows you aren't cheating. if you really don't want to use the mash shuffle, then you should probably just try to learn the riffle shuffle. i'd recommend going corner to corner, or something other then top/bottom to top/bottom. using the corners is easier, and in my opinion, more precise.

[@Eluminasis]

Thanks for the video. I never really thought of it and never just scooped the lands. But then I don’t sleeve everything... 🤔 Guess I need to get some sleeves 😂😂

[@hyperlink6547]

doing a riffle shuffle without sleeves is far easier, but if you want your cards in good condition, and dont want to damage the sides, then sleeves will benefit you in that regard. also, the mash shuffle that he considers cheating, while yes it may seem bad, but its only because he is doing it incorrectly. it works identically do the riffle shufle in how it randomizes your deck, so you still need to overhand a few times in between shuffles. also, you dont go from one side of he cards to the other, it splits sleeves and clumps cards. you can refer to the top comment for better directions and an explanation.

[@kudosbear02]

i do the mash shuffling thing >_> then again I'm paranoid about damaging my cards since I want to keep them Mint. i don't think it's that bad. then again I guess it has mixed results, i'll try to learn to riffle and then come back to this. Thanks for the videos.

[@sum1liteamatch]

You need to shuffle with an additional method in pile shuffle. It's just a supplement

[@kannix386]

5 in a row is completely normal. it would be pretty weird if not a single 5 in a row showed up after a long shuffle

[@54m0h7]

I'm just terrible at riffle shuffling, and my sleeves stick quite a bit, so here's what I do. Separate my lands into 1 pile and then pile shuffle them with the rest of the deck, so now I know at least the lands aren't sticking together. Then I'll just overhand shuffle a few times, maybe do a cut and work them in. (My sleeves actually get decently spread compared to yours). Then cut and overhand shuffle a few more times. If I played you I'd let you shuffle my deck any time. :P

[@eugenesesmaiii3278]

+The Mask of Truth it's not cheating. what about it is cheating?

[@eugenesesmaiii3278]

Oh shit I didn't realize he said specifically overhand shuffle. That's definitely cheating lol

[@54m0h7]

How is overhand shuffling cheating? I honestly want to play fair, I just suck at riffles.

[@eugenesesmaiii3278]

54m0h7 because when you overhand shuffle you are not changing the order of the deck and assuming you had 50/50 lands then you would always get a land then non land. You need to mash shuffle or riffle. Or do the overhand shuffle in such a way that it's chaotic. But yeah, definitely cheating. Sorry lol learn to shuffle better instead of just saying you can't do it. Practice makes perfect.

[@54m0h7]

Well my overhand shuffle is bit more random. Like I'll take the bottom half of the deck and drop cards kinda randomly on the top of the deck, both from the top and bottom of the half I took, alternating randomly. Then repeat cutting it somewhere different. This is after a mash shuffle as well, so I have no clue what's where.

[@theeflatlander]

Good vids. But I have noticed that you hold your cards really high. If you holde them lower to the table you dont have bend as much

[@rondecaro]

Hey Des, just wanted to thank you for doing what you do. I really enjoy your videos and your take on the game. Keep brewing and making awesome content.

[@rogaldorn5486]

Hey Des, this the tutorials you did lately where realy helpfull all togather. They realy helped me to get rid of some small but terrible mistakes and my shuffeling was awfull as i noticed, this did explain why some people thougt i was cheating on purpose when they noticed how similar my hands where all the time.

[@BlinkyFizz]

I let my opponent shuffle my cards if they want too. My shuffling is terrible.

[@thedemon1818]

I just drop my cards on the table, mix them around thoroughly, and pick the, up randomly 1 by 1

[@thedemon1818]

Jordan Culver but it is very random. Especially if you use a random number generator to tell you where to put them.

[@davidcomer2743]

To summarize, shuffle in a manner that produces randomness and is easy for you. Also, don't cheat :D

[@Catlord98765]

I pile shuffle my cards and then I chop shuffle the piles together.

[@22781dave]

"some kinda disgusting, rotten candy cane"....

[@Fatty4president]

I pile shuffle but when i made my 6 piles i shuffel those piles and than shuffel 2 stacks than all three

[@jda3comics693]

thanks for video I am bad at shuffling.so this helps

[@geoffclarke9375]

2 pile shuffles plus a couple regular shuffles or riffle shuffles. completely random

[@dimanarinull9122]

3 5 4 1 3 5 4 8 9 4 3 1 1 3 4 8 6 3 1 0 6 5 8 4 6 5 1 3 is random, 1 1 1 1 5 4 5 6 2 5 5 2 5 4 6 1 1 4 4 6 7 2 5 9 2 5 4 5 is random too, both sequences were generated in a random fashion but one just have a more visible sequence then the other. 3 4 6 4 1 0 1 6 1 5 3 7 7 5 4 5 8 7 0 5 4 8 9 2 8 3 0 1 is not random even if it has no visible sequence

[@dimanarinull9122]

the not random number is the square root of 12, that is not random.

[@eugenesesmaiii3278]

desolator, you can't say pile shuffling does literally nothing then say oh but it's fine as a last resort. what kind of logic are you following there?

[@DesolatorMagic]

I said it's worth it if real methods of shuffling are failing for some strange reason.

[@mluna1237]

If real methods are failing, either they are being done wrong or the player is perceiving clumping due to randomization as a failure of the method.

[@eugenesesmaiii3278]

+DesolatorMagic "it doesn't do anything,people" direct quote. your logic is completely flawed as is your definition of random. all random means is that the cards you pull can't be predicted in any way usually due to the previous game. pile shuffling GUARANTEES that no two cards from the previous game will be next to each other. obviously there's multiple copies of cards so it can still happen. and also bc of the rules of magic in Paticular the pile shuffling method is very susceptible to being abused hence why other methods must be used in concurrence with pile shuffling.

[@eugenesesmaiii3278]

+DesolatorMagic And also you're being deterministic. If you know the place of your cards in the deck and you pile shuffle that is exactly why it wouldn't be random as demonstrated by your example.

[@spudsdj8384]

I have a 3 part shuffle I use and before the tournament starts I spend 15 to 30 minutes shuffling

[@kuukuuplays2449]

lol the beepd

[@nathanweber354]

But Des, I play MTGO XD

[@eante6]

OMG you are so random!! OMG

[@thundurus7935]

6th ☺

[@jacksonroberts6265]

first