Destiny 2: Elitist Datto's Thoughts on the Root of Nightmares Contest Raid

[@Keksgame]

slowly chasing that orb of power at 8:59 sums this entire thing up pretty well

[@Aiden_crisp]

🤣🤣🤣

[@ki_wi_8525]

lol

[@christurner2589]

Woord being able to walk around not double jump and hip fire the gun the whole raid is insane

[@S0ur]

Glad elitist Datto was able to sneak onto the channel one last time while Datto's on break. We will miss you elitist Datto

[@TheRyman230]

Elitest datto will be sorely missed. Glad to see you’re a fan of elitist datto too s0ur!

[@FatalFrostbyte29]

It is time for elitist S0ur to rise.

[@KrakkenXXX]

No we wont

[@S0ur]

@@FatalFrostbyte29 He's also retired sadly. A decade of cod coverage is a rough sentence, I feel the pain of any fellow elitist

[@BerryFruit]

Oh yo, it's S0ur, lfg

[@senmem9134]

Watching Elitist Datto turn into Defeatist Datto has been really rough

[@Veloreyn]

Nezarac has found how to hurt Elitist Datto. Elitist Datto's nightmares are becoming reality. He truly is the final god of pain.

[@deviltwerkerzzgaming6469]

lol

[@eman111555]

lmao that's good

[@thecanadiankiwibirb4512]

Nezerac ain't just breaking the fourth wall -- he bursting through it and throttling you

[@Nick_Ramburn]

The raid was never meant to be the root of all nightmares... Only dattos

[@slowen1224]

It’s insane to me that bungie thought we wanted normal content to get harder and the hardest content like a raid to get easier

[@SeabYT]

The last wish part did not age well

[@TheKobra86]

So glad it did not age well. SO GLAD

[@klarpkant]

Bungie took that shit personally

[@francisorr2189]

Watching this after Edge of Salvation is almost funny

[@84m30]

To be fair it ABSOLUTELY seemed that way at the time.

[@TheKobra86]

@@84m30 Yes it certainly did

[@rlantry3]

Thanks for all the content and insight over the years Datto. We’re lucky to have you here, and I’m glad you continue to stick around despite the bad eggs/takes. Your level head has always kept me from overreacting, or not fully understanding what others can think. Appreciate you, and give Brim a snoot boop for me.

[@undeadmockingjay2000]

You know something is wrong when a lost sector is giving me more trouble than the contest mode raid

[@nairobi8056]

Dude. Fucking GAMBIT could be more difficult then the contest mode raid.

[@tecnoguy1136]

@@nairobi8056 I mean gambit is in general. You actually have to be good. It doesn’t rely on OHK bullshit or random mechanics for difficulty. It has raw pressure.

[@2SSteppin]

@@tecnoguy1136 and using some bs heavy weapon

[@ddaaby3391]

The biggest issue with contest mode was that Legendary lost sectors were harder than Root on contest mode.

[@fishnutz5196]

Yeah contest should be grandmaster or harder versions of ads

[@Glint391]

grand masters are easier than legend lost sectors

[@JDxxxxxx]

That’s because raids and dungeons don’t have the modifier that increase enemy health and can’t be staggered

[@generalslorgy7399]

Well they raised the difficulty on everything like the strikes and lost sectors. I’m thinking they upped everything but didn’t balance the raid to put it up to speed with the new standard of difficulty of the game

[@owendrungle]

​@@generalslorgy7399 unless they made every enemy have 5x health and one shot, how would they even make root harder? There's only so far you can go to artificially produce difficultly, this raid is easy because the mechanics are so braindead

[@Shloob1]

Honestly felt like contest was 5 under instead of 20 under

[@fishnutz5196]

Yeah it didnt feel right. Patrol ads feel like they are tanker anf hit harder than contest ads. The only thing that felt strong on contest where the Colossus stomps

[@Shloob1]

@@fishnutz5196 Yea bro I remember going into the patrol on day one and I was hitting enemies for immune ☠

[@RikiazGaming]

I've been saying since Lightfall came out that it really feels like the power delta has been changed. I did a Legend Lost Sector at -48 and it felt like -25. The raid on contest mode really did not feel like -20 and I didn't even clear it (not for lack of trying but having to LFG 3 people can only go so well.)

[@jaredelliott5778]

The legend nightfall this week at 15 under felt way harder than the raid. I have a feeling some of the set difficulty levels are tuned incorrectly

[@colemartin2229]

it still definitely felt like 20 under with high frames, and when I took damage it was pretty large amounts very fast, but all the enemies felt so stupid and almost docile at times, like they were running a "chill no kill" custom games lobby or something

[@Rekweem]

Honestly the hardest part of raiding in destiny is finding 5 people to raid with consistently

[@cghul7315]

Ya people r either toxic elitist or completely garbage

[@JohnnyBeGoodz]

it’s really not, wfh and covid made people scared to talk to random people and make an LFG. what’s hard is finding consistently GOOD teammates

[@ArrDeeM]

It should be “finding 5 people to raid with consistently that don’t make you want to scratch your eyes out”

[@JPOG7TV]

I thought this would be easy with randoms but jeez, id rather go outside, make friends and force them to play d2 to have a raid team rather than LFG for day one.

[@elseggs6504]

​@@JohnnyBeGoodz You can make good teammates by having a consistent group to begin with. Take Rainbow Six for instance: Isnt it easier to learn how to avoid getting spawnkilled if you have an experienced player tell you "this is a dangerous spot"? Easier than figuring out the hard way anyway?

[@GRITmaster08]

The dad's with 17 kids line had me on the floor. As a dad who stopped playing for a while with 1 kid I felt that

[@Loderyod]

Run, run while you still can! The further you are, the safer your kid will be when Datta comes!

[@deusvultpictures6550]

That's wat you get when you don't pull out

[@rhinochickenflakes9056]

To be quite frank, you can be an awesome dad and still be an elite and participate and complete contest mode raids with good coordinated friends ( anyone with 17 kids i salute you i have a hard time managing with 2 lol). Datto just sounds like he is venting because amature teams took his 100 spot. For a man that says the raid was easy ( which it was), he didn't finish in the top 100? I guess the dads beat him. For that dad out there with 17 kids? I salute you brother. You did it, so we dont have to, lol.

[@Masonc1001]

@@rhinochickenflakes9056 it was easy you don’t have to get a placement for it to be easy people just did it faster

[@Blanktester685]

@@rhinochickenflakes9056 worlds first was 2 hours... it was ez

[@Kharnjar]

If it makes you feel any better Elitist Datto, your commentary has inspired me to start doing solo dungeons. I can see your perspective, but I hope you know that your efforts weren't entirely in vain.

[@MiniMuni69]

I’ve been able to solo every dungeon until the Calus one.

[@punchykarma6685]

@@MiniMuni69 Yea duality is a tough one mainly just with the final boss

[@Jagexii]

@@MiniMuni69 interesting, i found duality was the easiest. No sparrow parts which got me dozens of times on Grasp. I only failed solo flawless duality because of incendior boops on the last dmg phase of the boss fight. But to be fair, prime solar 3.0 made duality a cakewalk with classy restoration.

[@mkloven101]

@@Jagexii i almost had duality but at final boss the fucking bell killed me, was so heated

[@MrAncop]

@@Jagexii the bells always get me, everything is easy until the second encounter, the timing is tight but then you have to deal with the RNG of the boops, that somehow can launch you at 300mph to the nearest wall.

[@superenthusiast]

It should be quite telling when the majority of the population agrees that the patrol enemies on Neomuna are more difficult to kill then anything in the contest raid.

[@DavidWilliams-nu3en]

I want to say you're wrong... but you're not 🤣

[@trenhen4311]

It’s insane how tanky they are. Those quantum wyverns in terminal overload are absolute bullet sponges

[@Tylericous]

A lot of players wanted all enemies in the game to be like that lol

[@solismo7043]

I was gonna disagree, but realized you're actually right. Kinda wack.

[@iforeverfly]

Then y’all would be complaining about bullet sponges, I’ve just come to the conclusion that destiny fans don’t know what they want and will find any and everything to complain about

[@jacksonfantastic5477]

Love it when Datto actually speaks his mind and isn’t just moderating

[@pee-pee_mama]

wdym?

[@inoob26]

​@@pee-pee_mama he has always had the stance of "X cant happen cuz Y" and for the most part tolerates stuff in the game. Now "Elitist Datto" is out more often than normal.

[@OblivionEDC]

@@inoob26 he’s literally never had that stance what are you taking about ?

[@erichall090909]

@@OblivionEDCI mean he is usually that. It’s not a bad thing

[@tranquiltotoro]

Heard someone say that Root of Nightmares was actually a Raid Lair: it takes half the time to complete, small mechanics that lead you to the boss. If it is a raid lair I’m unsure why Bungie said nothing about it, but it helps consolidate that weird feeling

[@BerryFruit]

Nah, the argument for it being a "souped up" dungeon is far stronger. Raid lairs seemed to be small extensions of a previous full raid (Eater, Spire). - Mechanics are very basic (so much so that almost the whole raid has a Solo proof of concept) [EDIT: Every encounter has been solo'ed] - So few mechanics in this raid that the majority of players ad clear because there is nothing to do. - The raid introduces mechanics as it progresses (per usual), but literally out of nowhere, the 3rd encounter comes in. No mechanics used in that encounter exist outside of it, nor does it use any from the rest of the raid. (Almost like it was just slapped in) - Boss health is not scaled properly. Not enough health for a team of 6 There are other small points (and possible coincidences) for the argument, such as: - This raid is the first to have Triumphs that award a higher chance for the exotic (something exclusive to dungeons prior like SotW & Duality). This could just be Bungie expanding the opportunity into raids. - The majority of the raid mods don't have anything to do with the raid (usually, raid mods relate to mechanics or circumstances in the raid). Some do. But most of the mods are very simple, such as getting a Void kill of some kind gets you Volatile Rounds, or Solar kill makes you Radiant (idk exact wording for the mods). Unrelated to the raid, basically. To me, these reasons are more than enough to convince me this was a dungeon turned raid. Maybe I look too much into it, idk. But all that is missing for me is Bungie admitting to it.

[@doubletrouble5276]

Sad that Elitist datto is no longer needed for now. Gonna miss him

[@Mislead721]

He’s not elite anymore and he can’t take that. It’s not a bad thing but it’s the impression I get. He needs to stop bitching.

[@OnBeeno]

@@Mislead721 every single point he made was valid, that’s not bitching

[@toban]

@@Mislead721 that's a stupid fucking take

[@bolt9139]

@@Mislead721 you need to grow up and introduce your infantile brain to the concept of criticism.

[@zeromythosver.]

It’s really pathetic this game got to the point where he’s retiring this bit, not because it lost its charm or humor, but because it’s quite possibly a lost cause that D2 will change ever so why push back on that (even just for show or a laugh) Bungie’s done very well at curating/fostering/encouraging a vocal majority of the playerbase online who rail against any opinion expressed by endgame/aspirational content players; people who will say anything or attack anyone just to see the game not demand more of players (even on contest mode, even if the rewards are cosmetic flexes without gameplay impacts) Just tired of seeing terminally-online players look at those better than them and hate their guts for playing at a higher level than them I remember seeing people better than me at D1 and wanting to get closer to or on their level; now that I’m there all I see from today’s new or average players is spite and contempt (not towards me and often not on an individual level, but towards the very idea of a person being better than them at something) You’re neither allowed to take pride in your accomplishments or growth at this game, or have a place to even accomplish uncommon feats in the first place; these activities are all decried until they’re brought down to the threshold vocal players are already at, rather than asking them to reach up

[@Giessepe]

I do agree that it is ridiculous that a weekly mission and nightfalls are more stressful than a raid 😂.

[@pecador_tor]

literally 🤣🤣🤣

[@knowledgeseeker3068]

The weekly mission is easy for a team that works together prepares a strategy and communicates. Its only hard for most people because they refuse to do so, Destiny players refuse to communicate and work as a team I can't wait for the GM version I will dance to the screams.

[@F-aber]

I would argue that even the weekly missions are for the most part piss easy, did the master one in the first week 35 underlight with some friends and we didn't even struggle once, we just fucked around with strand for the most part

[@christianmarineau8079]

I think this says a lot about how overtuned that content is though (not that the raid isn't easy, but still)

[@subzero308]

Because this didn't have bullet sponges and enemies that hit like trucks... That's why this raid is fun. NFs and other "end game" stuff is not fun when ur fighting bullet sponge enemies that hit u like a truck while we r nerfed to the ground its BORING playing like that and its not a challenge...its bad game design... At least we can go in run something and just have fun and get stuff we actually want. Also who Tf stresses over a video game 😂 smh... Destiny players r wild ctfu.

[@pulsevzero]

It’s very odd that their whole bringing challenge back to Destiny applied to everything outside the raids. Who asked for lost sectors and patrols to feel frustrating.

[@supranova7594]

Literally elitist Datto and Co. Lol 🤡 Like don't get me wrong, I was also down with some things being a little more dicey with power caps 100%. But they kept pointing out how lost sectors took 5min runs and outside of GMs nights falls were a joke... well they got their wish. The rest of the game is so aggravatingly hard in terms of enemy density and bullet spongeiness, mixed with our ability nerfs on top of weapon archetypes still being shite from shadowkeep, all in addition to being punished for playing the game at a normal 60fps... that once outside of those activities now everything is ridiculously easy. The amount of sweating my a** off hard in legend campaign to 180 turn your brain off easy during the strike mid way through. My and girl couldn't help but laugh at the easiness the rest of the game felt after. I feel bad that a sweet new raid felt this easy to a lot of people literally watched sweatcicle flawless it during contest mode... but when bungies busy overhauling everything else to be an unfun not worthwhile headache cuz they asked for it then unfortunately they can't really be that upset their day1 raid is not up to snuff

[@atomic_adam2191]

@@supranova7594 skill issue 💀

[@Wav03]

@@atomic_adam2191 literally bro. We’re too good

[@pulsevzero]

@@supranova7594 idk I’m pretty sure plenty of people talked about how raids outside of contest felt like a joke for years. Bungie for whatever reason didn’t think to apply this new mindset they have to the mainline pinnacle content once a year.

[@isaiahbridges7442]

@@supranova7594 no

[@mr.squanch549]

Watching this a year later knowing how hard bungo went for the nuts with the new raid.

[@ElToffaz]

I loved the final "YOU GAVE THEM HOW MUCH POWER AMMO??!??" But yeah honestly we cleared in 12 hours but the bosses really fell over. We spent more time trying not to die from bumpers than doing third and final encounter.

[@Jagexii]

Seriously, aside from a few breaks because my team was in Australia, the most time consuming part of contest was the 2nd encounter launchers that we kept wiping on due to janky physics.

[@ExtraordinaryFate]

12 hours is way too long, good lord.

[@kentuckyjones7242]

Pretty new to D2. Are there other modes of the raid? And if so.. what are we talking about. I played wow for 15 years. World first raiders never cared about the Normal/Heroic raids or the “world firsts” of them. Now, if this is the only difficulty for D2 raiding, I get it.

[@j.a.terlato2461]

@@kentuckyjones7242 it is the only difficulty, we also are getting the master version sometime soon but apparently it’s going to be easier??? Kinda disappointing that nothing is actually challenging anymore

[@Dabagel100]

My team well and shatter skated across way more consistent

[@Not_Epic]

My team fell short on Vow but got this raid. I’m still proud and happy but acknowledge how much easier this one was. We didn’t start until hours later and still finished it quickly. I was hoping for another Vow experience because even if we didn’t get it that was some of the most fun I’ve had in this game. Really unfortunate with the direction it went in

[@sirjoan6645]

Same, although we were very happy with completing, i think it was much easier than Vow We got to 3rd encounter in 3-5 hours after the start

[@doomsday_72]

Vow imo is the best raid bc it relies on mechanics the most which is what raids should rely on in my opinion

[@royshavrick]

@@doomsday_72 Eh. It was okay, I just felt like it was far too mechanics heavy. It slowed down the gameplay and made it very tedious rather than a good balance. It isn't even that hard if you just have the symbol names down. It also didn't really feel as epic as Last Wish, where although there are mechanics it still felt tense. Same with Kings Fall and DSC and VoG to a lesser extent (they are a bit too easy).

[@Alassandros]

I wish the Nezarec fight was a bit more true to his theme. I would've never thought he was some immensely powerful telepath here. He only seemed like a super Tormentor. I wish there was some mechanic where half the raid team would be sucked into a dream world where they had to fight nightmares or phantoms while the other half had to defend the sleepers and wake them up. Or maybe Nezarec could control a horde of enemies in perfect synchronization. He suffers from the same implementation issues Calus did. Edit: Here's another thing I want to mention: Enemies without a voice have been boring for me. The Vex are the main culprit. I believe a big reason Savathun and Oryx were so good were because they spoke. Eramis isn't my favorite, but I like her much more than other villains. Hell, I remember her name at the very least. So when I saw Nezarec messing around in the Vex Network, I thought he might become their voice. Yet the raid came and went and no connection to the Vex at all. He was just another Cabal, the Super Psion.

[@joshuavidrine889]

Once again, Bungie shows the only teams who brought their A-game to the Lightfall DLC were the Raid environment team and the Strand designers. The rest of the studio just crammed stuff in and hoped the players would find it acceptable.

[@alexdiaz155]

He doesn’t even have the same grasp attack as a tormentor. He’s almost a neutered version of the basic enemy based off him. If the final shape boss (presumably the Witness) can’t destroy Wells, Bubbles, and Tethers, it will be even more mocked than this raid.

[@storm_5088]

I agree. I mean, the title of the raid is quite literally, The *Root of Nightmares.* I was thinking about this after my first raid completion, considering we’ve known Nezarec as the original disciple of the lunar pyramid, something associated as the SOURCE of the nightmares since Shadowkeep, maybe Season of Plunder? (Might have to check my lore knowledge on that, anyway.) What didn’t make sense at all, was the Cabal bosses. Sure, Calus’ loyalists are here to assist the Witness, but wouldn’t Nezarec, even with a crumb of his power be able to conjure SOMETHING relative to the lunar nightmares. I mean, even after Season of the Haunted and the cursed-nightmare Leviathan, where the Hell are the Nightmares!?! Regardless, I was hoping for some weird Morgeth looking boss. Maybe a Tormentor who is the “Conjurer of Nightmares!” or something, who was hit with the Traveler beam, and now that very Tormentor is an eldritch abomination of both the nightmares and light. No, instead, we got the Cabal. I’m even more disappointed Nezarec wasn’t even something of nightmarish. What did we get, my friend? Rhulk on anabolic steroids, who proceeds to serenade you during the entire raid. I think the Witness was feeling goofy and decided to combine his three disciples- Rhulk, Nezarec, and Calus, into one guy. Looks like Rhulk, acts like Nezarec, talks fanfiction to you like Calus. But? Oh well. Many hoped for this raid to save the expansion, and it didn’t. That doesn’t make the raid not enjoyable though, but overall; lack of lore, lack of depth, lack of consistency. We only seem to have our memories of an actual impactful raid now.

[@joshuavidrine889]

@@storm_5088 Well said, it feels like this Nezarec was a half-hearted attempt at throwing half a bone to the Lorelocks without putting in any effort. "You wanna know about Nezarec, well here he is as a raid boss! Happy?" It just feels like more filler that attempted to put a cap on some lore that didn't need a cap put on it.

[@Justadadonthetok]

That sounds like the calus fight in the leviathan. Think people would have hated seeing something so similar.

[@dova3050]

Bungie really took this video personally when making Salvation's Edge lmao

[@skull9681]

Finally, my opinion has arrived

[@S1ick865]

FACTS AF

[@jakkett1035]

Aight this joke getting sorta old

[@doglookingatcamera7954]

Old

[@alyssakitten6006]

I actually agree with him quite a bit

[@jakkett1035]

@@noxiebobo ik

[@mattypoptarts]

I have a feeling this was supposed to be a dungeon that they stretched out into a "raid". Three encounters are the same aesthetically and the planet room feels way off. Not to mention the orb mechanic can be done with 1-2 people.

[@v0id19]

I absolutely subscribe to this spinfoil theory. This entire expansion felt like a season, and the raid absolutely could have been the accompanying dungeon, would also explain the ridiculously long platforming sections with the wipe mechanic which felt really out of place in a raid (imagine a 45 second respawn timer there haha).

[@ethandeis7427]

Don’t forget that it would make more sense for the planet room to be on the witnesses ship

[@MonkeyDChevy]

@@ethandeis7427 was it not the witnesses ship tho?

[@nuclearshiba3222]

@@MonkeyDChevy no it was Nezarec's

[@thecanadiankiwibirb4512]

Would also explain why Spire's bosses are literally just a big Wyvern and the big harpy from encounter 1/2 of GoS As if this is true they would have had to make a new dungeon really quickly.

[@DangerDane62]

The way I saw it, it felt like a World’s First event for a 6-man Legendary Campaign Mission. It was still a very fun event, but I can’t help but think more challenge would have been welcome.

[@emifda8466]

Man legendary campaign was harder than this lol

[@ELVIStheDotA]

A 6-man Legendary Campaign with scaling on would be several times harder than this.

[@R0undbrush]

last wish was cool not because it was hard, its because it was so amazingly designed. It felt high quality

[@Johnnyboycurtis]

Big thanks to Datto for this well developed critique. Contest mode was so easy people were farming sherpa clears. I did it twice for fun. Low man community had a lot of fun running through the raid showing that even in contest mode you don’t need a full fireteam to clear ads

[@o0rolyat0o]

See that important word there? *FUN*

[@shagoremagala]

@@o0rolyat0o Yes, because the raid is fun. But thats not the sole point of Contest lmao I havent seen a single person complain that the Raid is boring easy =/= unfun

[@beardedshuckle5220]

same shit as making an easy game hard with nuzlockes and other harder challenges. just handicapping to make a fun challenge cause the challenge isnt there

[@mpraka]

wich content creator? i wanna see that because every wipe people were leaving and i had a time limit and i feel like i didnt even have time to attemps nezarec. thank you

[@MiaisAFK]

I solo all the way up to 3rd encounter and 3man the whole raid on contest, I'm so bored of this

[@ooziepro]

Seeing Nezerac just standing there, 2 inches away from you and doing absolutely nothing while he's being melted was insanely painful. RIP

[@Wulfen109]

Agreed. I think they should have designed it in a way where standing on the plates is necessary to damage and you had to keep stunning him to extend the dps or something like that.

[@imadeamistak4905]

noooo! but wells are perfectly balanced guys ! /s

[@burtsbees3690]

plates shouldve gone up in flames or something. Or like the 3rd encounter plates randomly light up with light or dark depending on nez and standing on the correct plate allows you to damage nez and the wrong plate damages you

[@jacob7927]

Painful because it took us many hours of fighting nezarec to realize how easy THAT plate was. We tried so many other spots and he thrashed VIOLENTLY

[@Keysy007]

God of BDSM

[@generalSarbina]

My favourite kind of encounter is the encounter where you have a short timer and you have to get from A->B but need to do mechanics and clear ads. Shuro Chi from Last Wish and Exhibition from Vow of the Disciple are my top two. I really enjoy Root of Nightmares because of that but the encounters felt like they were missing something critical to make them more challenging: a lockout. That buff lockout really sells the encounter in Exhibition. It forces the rest of the team to learn the relics so it isn't just one person doing one task. And the relics aren't mechanically hard either. It's just relic + timer + combat + communication = a nicely tuned encounter. And that's what Root of Nightmares is missing currently. Other wise, I really enjoy it (I used to agree that hard raids are fun raids, but as I've gotten older and have gotten less will8ng to put up with the shenanigans of lfg, fun raids aren't necessarily hard raids for me).

[@joisama]

I don't know about difficulty, but Vow's Exhibition run is probably my favorite raid encounter all raids included. And that's despite all the lfg problems with that one

[@IAmWhiteEagle]

"the orbs have been disrupted" is a lock out.

[@yaelcarrasquillo1675]

I havent run LW that many times but I can definitely agree with VOW take. Love that raid so much I even got myself Disciple-Slayer.

[@oldmanwolffe5248]

I like exhibition a lot too, I just don’t do it much because I don’t have friends and LFG teams make it feel more like purgatory

[@SunnyBloop]

Raids should never have situations where 1 or more players are just "killing adds"; if that happens, the encounters feel weaker as a result, because not everyone is realistically contributing to engaging with what makes Raids fun to begin with. I'm getting flash backs to Crota's End with Root... Only this time it feels more like a Dungeon than a Strike lmao. (And, to give some credit to that, first encounter felt fun in a 3 man.)

[@otterpawbs]

As a slightly over mid raider... even though Root was my team's first Day 1 completion. I do agree on how practically easy this seemed. I budgeted around 16-17 hours for completion (roughly 4hrs per encounter to learn and perfect it) and we made it well before that budget. My team was stunned when we found out WF was 2.5 hours. (Shout out to HITP) I agree so much that contest mode felt easy. I wanted to believe that maybe the community had three benefits to making contest easier. 1. 30% resilience 2. Easier mod set ups to have less buff but more time Font of might by adding 2-3 surges and time dilation. 3. So many things were capped where we are lower level by default. (Legendary Campaign, Neomuna Patrol, Lost Sectors) However, things just felt more smooth then it should for a contest raid. The bosses were practically free compared to KF or Vow (the 2 contests I participated in). Each boss was either a 2 phase or at the very least a comfortable 3 phase. It was so free that there were low mans done during contest. The main mechanics felt like a damn dungeon. I remember being stuck on Exhibition for hours due to ad density, heavy call outs, and skill issues (myself included). Where was the difficulty on non damage check encounters? Why weren't Anti barriers one shotting us? Why isn't tormentors suppressing and killing more? That's my expectations for a contest raid and yet everything fell over it seems. At this rate Root of Nightmares should have a solo flawless emblem (I'm exaggerating but ya get the point) Regardless, I'm proud of the achievements my team did and we will be ready for the reprisal hopefully expecting more of a challenge than what Root of Nightmares offered. Cheers to everyone that did it! Be proud no matter what but please make it more of a challenge next time.

[@kaxru]

😊😊

[@SilomareD2]

My team cleared the day1 within 3 hours and we placed sixth. 2 of our teammembers had no idea what almost any of the mechanics were for the entire run. That's just absurdly stupid imo. Great video, thanks for speaking up on this as a bigger figure.

[@DynoStyr]

most destiny 2 raid shit i ever heard

[@luk4aaaa]

Good job and I agree that the raid was too easy, however because 3 of the people on my team rarely got 1 million damage on any boss I’m kinda glad it was easier just so I got it done lol.

[@jonas_2411]

I agree with every argument you made Datto, but more than that I agree with the emotions underneath it. It's crushing to see the best day in the destiny year end so insanely fast. Thanks for making this video man! I hope this feedback reaches Bungie.

[@greeny1033]

Something that should have absolutely been mentioned in the last wish segment is that, the BEST part of the raid mechanically, 99% of people who have ever done the raid have Never engaged with the mechanics of the most engaging encounter in the game from a mechanic perspective. People look back on Last wish like it's amazing, but an encounter with a lot of mechanics, which really just revolves around remembering 2 bits of information at any time, people just SKIP it.

[@belugawhales5843]

Vault was a mad encounter on day 1 but oh boy was it fun to watch. I wish that it wasn’t so easy to skip an encounter in a raid because it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. On the other hand I don’t want my baby, shuro-chi, taken away from me for that free chest and weapon grinding whenever needed. The skips have its purpose, but if you introduced people who played d2 for a bit and put them into vault. They would be so lost.

[@trickytreyperfected1482]

​@@belugawhales5843 Oh I thought Greeny was talking about Riven since I haven't gotten there in the video yet. Which honestly just shows how the community feels about actually doing the raid and all its mechanics lol

[@chrisn3819]

To this day I have approx 25 LW clears and never once did riven legit. I won’t pretend like I ask to do it legit every time, but from clears 15-25 if I didn’t come straight out and request it, I at least hinted to it and you would have though I murdered my fireteams grandmothers with the way the coms went SO silent and their rage radiating from their mics to my headset. I suppose that what I get for never finding a dedicated raid team and always relying on LFG.

[@sirmcdust5572]

@@chrisn3819 I remember in my clan we were running Riven relatively often (still no 1K sadge) and one day the clan leader was talking about Riven legit and I just casually asked how it works and in that moment he realized I had never done it legit. His immediate response was: alright guys, time to do Riven legit. And I must say, that was an amazing experience but would I put myself through it everytime if I can just do cheese? Unlikely.

[@mriguy7989]

Dipshits like to praise Last Wish as one of the best raids ever. But there's a reason why most people who have played generally choose to either skip shit or cheese it. The raid was too mechanics and symbol heavy and the majority hate that. At the end of the day, this is a first person shooter, not World of Warcraft on 25 man mythic raiding. And the Datto's of the world need to realize that and get over it or move the fuck on to something else.

[@namanex5210]

“Your not gonna get another last wish” oh datto if only you knew at the time.

[@ProbablyMuted]

Thank you for putting all of this in a much nicer way than I could. Day 1 was ridiculous.

[@DavidsuperZhong]

Never change Datto, 3 days for this video was worth it No seriously this side of you will always be cherished

[@revfunk8823]

🤡🤡🤡

[@Duva_]

@@revfunk8823🤡

[@hypemaddox]

​@Simply Lethul I like how he respond to this mins in the video and how u ignore the man's prev achievements

[@yhuali5120]

@@simplylethul this mf definitely didn’t do it on contest

[@slamcheck]

@@simplylethul man im losing braincells reading youtube comments like yours. because he wasnt 1st he isnt allowed to say its easy? . do you have a working brain? do you know how to talk ? oh wait i forgot something 🤣🤣🤣

[@connorvogt2291]

I think it's time Elitist Datto gets his own channel, he definitely deserves it

[@SnazBrigade]

my theory is that this raid was designed specifically with in-game lfg in mind, which was originally planned to be released alongside it. I think bungie thought that having this option in game would make it so that more random lfg players would be uncommunicative, so they made mechanics that were less communication focused. The problem with that is raids are entirely communication driven. Without having to organize everyone while also not getting killed is much harder than just focusing on enemies or on where a ball of light is pointing.

[@jumwum6505]

I don’t think raids have to be communication driven. I do think this raid was too easy. In my opinion there shouldn’t be revive tokens and the baseline adds should be keeping one or two players down at all times. The mechanics are something the team does amongst the chaos

[@bryanho7376]

I’ve watched along multiple day 1 races, and participated in a few. In each race, I can distinctively remember a feeling of awe, like “how tf are they gonna do this?” Or “how would they have enough damage for this check?” And even been in that situation myself with Caretaker day 1. Beating Caretaker day one, because we made the call to swap to Ourbreak for total dmg, and killing him on final stand, was one of my most treasured memories in the game. Was watching the race the other day since I decided to not buy LF, I felt things were off. Things like Datto killing stuff a bit too fast with his mg, or how they didn’t hurt nearly as much. Ppl using speed running strats with eager edge instead of playing their lives, and the absolute lack of tension when damaging Nezarec. It really lacked any of the key ingredients of a typical day 1 raid. I hope Bungie learns and maintains the magic of their raids, cuz the inherent difficulty is a key ingredient imo.

[@Dekzo]

glad you posted this, I’ve never done a day 1 raid besides king’s fall (no challenge) and its sooo frustrating watching people online, especially in the subreddit, praising the contest mode zero brain activity in there

[@rtdakota39]

Honestly, the hardest ‘mechanic’ to overcome was the frame rate issue. We didn’t prep and made it through the first two encounters in 3 hours, learning the mechanic ourselves. We weren’t planning on running contest mode at all so we called it quits after that. Too bad too. This would have been an easy emblem. I agree 100% contest mode didn’t feel dangerous. Normal mode feels easier than the seasonal content.

[@CountZacula77]

Nah the final encounter was way harder than the first 3.

[@adamd2342]

To be fair the levels jump up for the 3rd and 4th encounters so it does get tougher, but yes, first 2 encounters were not difficult in the slightest.

[@NathanShepard]

3rd and 4th are way harder than the first two encounters. We breezed by the first two struggled for a minute on the third. 4th gave us the most issue.

[@Zxnked]

Dude literally played the easiest part of the raid, took him 3 HOURS and he says "It would have been an easy emblem" yeah sure lol

[@Eclipse4589]

Hardest encounter was the fucking 2-3 jumping puzzle

[@bennachtigall4784]

I was ecstatic to finally get a contest mode completion for the emblem. Once I saw that 45k people had beat contest mode it really took the wind from under my sail. I dont really feel accomplished from it now.

[@fabledredd4481]

​@@anunusualname5344 you fail to recognise how many teams tried to clear it. I'm pretty sure over 50% of the teams that entered on DAY ONE CONTEST CLEARED IT. very weird take that it wasn't way too many

[@shatteredakuma]

Yeah people say that you should still feel accomplished, which you should, in your clear but how can you? Bungie made this raid so piss easy that your accomplishment doesn't mean much even compared to deep stone crypt

[@ProfPantaloons]

I don’t raid. I did a few in D1 but have never done any in D2. But one thing I love is new raid day. Getting on to Twitch and flicking between the best players the game has competing to see who really is the best. And I’ve enjoyed quite a few of these day 1 experiences. Last Wish will forever be my favourite watching experience. I’m not sure some of the people taking part would agree, but watching everyone struggle made this game look difficult and the raid was the pinnacle of PvE. Fast forward to Root of Nightmares and seeing it completed with not much effort really disappointed me. I’m with the elite here. I wanted a challenge to sit and watch. I wanted a long session watching these guys try and figure out mechanics and then doing them. These guys are amazing and an absolute credit to the Destiny community with their ability to figure out things. I could never, that’s why I don’t raid. I hope Bungie realise how bad this made the top tier of content look and sort it out for the next one. I would hate to see Final Shape end on a whimper.

[@pjerdujmovic1308]

Imagine wanting the game to be watchable instead of playable. Root of nighmares saw the hughest day 1 player engagement out of any raids so far. You literally want something as big as day 1 raiding to feel and be exclusive to the no life sociopaths of this comunity because their fragile egos got hurt.

[@batwing5808]

@@pjerdujmovic1308 My brother in christ, it is a CONTEST mode raid it happens once a year and is meant for the "no life sociopaths". Hardcore players get this kind of event very rarely so to see it be such a joke is a massive disappointment. Not everything in the game should be accessible to people with 8 hours played in the last 2 years.

[@HarryNesbitt-fu3yr]

@@pjerdujmovic1308 YES that’s why contest mode exists it’s only for 2 days. Raiding should be accessible to everyone outside of contest but a brand new raid should not be completed in 2.5 hours when your 20 below. It’s beyond a joke

[@applenewmoon4402]

@@pjerdujmovic1308 dude contest mode is for skilled players lmao. I hope final shape be the hardest raid ever just to spite you new lights

[@flashdr1ve]

@@applenewmoon4402 takes like that is the reason why some people just outright dont want to raid when the “destiny veterans” is a community full of guys like you

[@aj_darkblade]

Datto hits the nail on the head. Contest being extended and more clears happening aren't the issue; the issue is the scale/intensity of the challenge not measuring up to how powerful guardians have become.

[@iltwixli2379]

Try to tell entitled 50yo harald that still complains that this raid was too hard (he had no mods equipped and used double primary. I wish i was joking but someone in reddif seriously said this)

[@rezz836]

That’s exactly it. I really don’t believe that the “damage check” should hard stop 95% of teams. First to figure out the mechanics really should win. But also the combat difficulty should feel a little tougher for sure

[@scofozo]

@@rezz836 you shouldn't be able to kill the boss with rat kings only on contest mode

[@shatteredakuma]

@@rezz836 then where is the challenge? the damage check is the show of skill once youve mastered the mechanics

[@yosup7400]

@@scofozo Nobody did. Did you watch the video? Rat King was used only for final stand when everyone ran out of heavy and special.

[@OJWVU]

Remember when the tracer shanks in DSC shot non-sniper shots? Or when every other enemy would just walk around and not shoot at you, especially in encounter 3/4? It got tuned, and though it's still not the highest of combat challenge, it's definitely better. Hopefully something similar is coming here. In a perfect world, Nezarec has a grab attack similar to the tormentors that'll mess us up if we're on those platforms. I know it's probably not possible, but who knows what'll change? Side note, I wish after running light & dark at the boss, you had to have one Guardian get grabbed in the above way by Nezarec to expose his chest again, so the rest of the team could shoot it and stun him to start damage. More mechanics like that would spice things up.

[@cameronsalmon1314]

Adjust the platforms so that you aren’t invulnerable. Maybe when your connecting the dots you’d be targeted by Nezarec similar to a normal tormentor? And other players could stun Nezarec, which would involve other players.

[@Odin1177]

He should be able to grab the whole team, and threaten your health bar at the very least. should spell doom for teams who don't add clear very well. This grab should reduce your health below your shield making you absolute, but Well of radiance is still in the game!

[@ethandeis7427]

My idea is to get his agro you have to let him grab you. The longer he holds you the more stacks of Nezarecs hatred you get. At ten you die. To get him to drop you your team mates have to shoot his shoulders and chest. If you should the chest and shoulders in a certain order when he drops you you lose all stacks of hatred. The order can be seen by the people who have the light/dark buff. If the order is messed up he still drops you but someone else will have to grab agro. As for damage phase I don’t know

[@W1thoutR3morse]

As a well above average Guardian. I agree with this take. I don’t want people to fail miserably at and not want to raid, but when I logged onto check who won, I couldn’t believe it was beat in 2.5 hours. Absolutely floored. The whole thing about contest mode is to he cracked hard. To see who the best are. It’s fun seeing these teams with Datto or Cross bang their head on the wall lol. I think the opening weekend numbers being high is great but the day 1 shouldn’t. It’s disappointing to see that there isn’t much to learn, just go in there and shoot 🤷‍♂️. Boosting enemy density in the game is nice but not at the expense of mechanics. Datto isn’t also wrong about how insane Nightfall and the Exotic mission are. Those things are on legendary ffs. Raising the difficulty is cool but why not raise it in places it should be. It’s weirdly high in normal situations. It all points to the fact that they don’t know how to deal with guardian power creep.

[@cale0001]

Always love to see how legend lost sectors are harder than day 1 raids. Hopefully bungie will see how power crept we are. Great video

[@Samantha_Says]

I hope that The Final Shape's raid is a Last Wish 2.0. I just feel like that would be such an epic way to end out the saga.

[@starlightrains]

that will not happen. bungie needed activision and the studios that came with it to produce content on that level, that frequently

[@weirdo7319]

With how much they have fumbled this expansion I am worried about The Final Shape

[@Killomainia]

@@weirdo7319 Honestly I feel (and I hope) it might be the opposite. Because Lightfall was supposed to be aimed as the finale for the Light and Dark saga, hell even the title card was all doom and gloom and we got Neon Cyberpunk Marvel adventure out here. So the stuff they have created for Lightfall orginally has been pushed to The Final Shape, which may have been brewing in the oven for at least 2 years at this point giving them a little bit more time to prep it a year from now

[@yosup7400]

@@Killomainia You can see development timelines for expansion in some GDC conferences bungie devs have attended. In general it seems like they have 2 expansion teams. Witch Queen started development shortly after Shadow Keep. Lightfall's development started right after Beyond Light. If the current iteration of Lightfall was cobbled together, it's likely that Final Shape will have been in development for quite a while.

[@omensoffate]

It won’t be you people love huffing that copium

[@Boingo445]

Elitist Datto will be missed

[@DeepHibiscus]

nah

[@IzanamisBurden]

no we wont

[@brandoncmn]

@@IzanamisBurden yes he will 🥰

[@knowledgeseeker3068]

Nope he won't, hearing him cry for almost a half hour was amazing. I poured wine and had cheese (i actually did) no one cares about the top .00001% and if they quit the game someone else will take up the mantle. They make good content and I assume do well, he should be happy and focus on that.

[@faesira]

@@knowledgeseeker3068 spoken like somebody who doesn't know how to do the ball mechanic in corrupted but expects day 1 contest to be handed to them

[@themirror9905]

this video aged like milk. jokes aside it seems like bungie felt that video from datto and delivered the hardest raid ever in salvations edge

[@danielbreedlove]

I LOVE watching Day 1 raids. I literally go over to my buddies house and we treat it like the super bowl. When the party was over after 2:30 we kinda just sat there like "okay now what do we do?" We had the whole night prepared to be on the couch cheering everyone on. It doesn't just suck for the elites, it sucks for all the people treating this like an actual sports event!

[@harrison127]

I cancelled plans for Friday and Saturday, so did most members of my team. We cleared at around 5:30 Eastern and just kind of sat in discord for the rest of the night in disbelief. Honestly we weren’t even proud of ourselves for such a high finish, we were more just sad that an experience we used to love has been lost.

[@elifarmer2935]

It's like watching a Super Bowl that ends like 13-9. Like...that's it? We got together and went through all this prep and got all hyped up for THAT?

[@campbellclark2988]

I agree, Raid night for me is watching all the streams and usually messing about on my own take doing easy stuff. The Last Wish was epic but Datto is right that it won’t happen again. Saturday night is when the non elite get to play for me. This two day nonsense and a 2.5 hour WF is ridiculous. Second encounter we did the no kill the immune enemies challenge on our first ever run. That’s ridiculous and it’s because after 2 days all the elite gamers had beat it so many times they were already cutting corners and working on challenges.

[@koibitocorazon6365]

Right?! I had my snacks ready and everything. I was SALTY

[@tajaehickson9791]

This was the first year I was gonna host a day 1 raid party. A couple friends had work in the morning but they said they get to the party about 3 hours after it started and I responded "it's a 48 hr raid race, you'll be fine" boy was I wrong!

[@cacarpenter89]

I'm pretty onboard with the guess that the 1st, 2nd, and 4th encounters were originally an OG Lightfall dungeon and they spliced in the planets encounter. Bungie is very good about mechanics building on each other throughout a raid, but the planets encounter is completely disconnected mechanically. It's pretty clear the design of that encounter is at a different level. Not unreasonable given the timing of the addition of Final Shape.

[@Metal4ever69]

This makes no sense with their development schedule

[@BaldurL]

Why did the destiny community get so comfortable with absolutely wild speculation about game development that makes zero fucking sense.

[@Metal4ever69]

@@BaldurL no idea same people mad about Nezzy’s design becuase it doesn’t match their head cannon

[@ontos8914]

I hope we hear from the raid team soon, i highly doubt bungie wanted this to be as easy as it was

[@Someguy6571]

kinda late now

[@cethien]

@@Someguy6571 true, but if they at least acknowledge it, maybe the next one wont have this problem

[@davidmcdevitt7583]

I mean they spent a long time designing it like this, they just either made it easier intentionally or brought their B game. My guess is they made it easy intentionally

[@diddlebop7481]

​@@davidmcdevitt7583 Yeah I remember when Aztecross was saying "Either Bungie is about to make the hardest raid ever, or the most free raid ever." It was for sure free af

[@kypdurron62]

You'll never hear a single word from them on this. Bungie is one of the worst studios for communication

[@moss9851]

the fact that last wish is closer to d1 launch than now is crazy man, feels like just yesterday

[@jprosey]

just shows you how old this game is. Ppl fail realize this IP is coming to an end

[@jumwum6505]

@Prosey 757 I don’t think destiny as an IP is coming to an end. It makes too much money and bungie probably has something it’s cooking to keep it workers employed past the next two years.

[@matsostby2258]

I didn't complete the raid day 1/2, and have never done a day 1 before, but jumping in on contest to help our team out fill it for the 3rd encounter I was shocked at how easy it was. Didn't need anything but my voltshot ikelos smg for the ads and fusion nades once in a while, and it was just so easy compared to other activities. This was more like a heroic NF

[@NobleVI_343]

With you doing the hardest encounter and finding it easy, why didn't you finish?

[@matsostby2258]

@@NobleVI_343 Was with regards to the adclear and staying alive, the others had already gotten into the mechanics somewhat, but getting it all right took a while, and as it was already pretty late when I joined it took a bit too long for me to see it through with them

[@NobleVI_343]

@@matsostby2258 Understandable and unlucky

[@diodestiny]

@@NobleVI_343 he said he was at 3rd encounter not nezarec

[@NobleVI_343]

@@diodestiny if u think nez is the hardest encounter, u crae crae

[@nickyessir7105]

I was so excited when Nezerac was teased for the final boss. Now seeing how he just stands still while you’re an inch off the ground makes me sad. Hopefully stuff gets better and we get hard raids but we’ll see.

[@agripinaa8684]

Definitely a little wack to have him just disappear from reality for his jumps but otherwise yeah he’s a letdown for sure

[@EverecTV]

NezArEc

[@GeoGyf]

Nezarec was a random name on an exotic, we should be lucky it even became a raid boss.

[@Sfcfan120]

What?

[@shrimpstance]

I have never done a raid in Destiny but I do have some experience in FFXIV raiding (my group is blind progging the current raid tier) and I love the kind of challenge it provides. If they released fights with mechanics only two people have to do I would be mad for sure! I definitely feel for y'all.

[@arcaneace8313]

Ffxiv has been dumbing their shit down for years. Healers are falling asleep in raid and solo healing ULTIMATE. Ffxiv has already fallen off the casual cliff never to come back

[@DoctorFaust]

Yeah most jobs have been dumbed down and most job actions removed or just made into one, I still think 14 needs more skill and mechanical awareness to clear harder content than anything in D2. I wish warrior had deliverance again

[@urazz7739]

@@DoctorFaust It's better than WoW where people just download addons to make the content easy as hell. At least in FF14, they will potentially ban you for using mods (or more specifically mods that give you an advantage over other players in game).

[@arcaneace8313]

@@DoctorFaust it 100% has harder mechanics nothing in d2 is even in the same universe as an ult, but the actual jobs are dogshit and require 0 braincells. The jobs could do the rotations for you and I feel nothing would he lost with how braindead they’ve become. Destiny 2 at least still requires you to do fps things and actually make a build. Gear is functionally pointless in xiv.

[@deftimusmaxiumus5221]

@@arcaneace8313 you obv havent attempted top lmao

[@pch1370]

5:37 The timing of the Tormentor ascending on screen and the little chuckle as he speaks is so perfect. lol

[@SkulkingFox]

I almost cheered when he mentioned the difficulty spike of patrol. When the community said that aspects of the game weren't challenging enough, I don't know why Bungie thought they were referring to patrol. Blows my mind that they thought putting us 15 under in patrol was a way to solve that.

[@sunshineanddreamdrops]

You really put it into perspective when you said about how the legend exotic mission and legend nightfall are harder than the raid. You're right, that shouldn't be the case, the more I think about it, the more funny (and sad) it is... if Crota's End ends up being the reprised raid, then oh boy, this year of raiding is gonna be a joke.

[@ForgeCrow]

Crota should be a dungeon it's just wholeass not a raid they lying if they pretend it is

[@kjax139]

After this raid, I’m very very sad I purchased this expansion. I was hoping the raid would redeem the campaign…it just made it worse

[@ForgeCrow]

@@kjax139 I mean its still a fun and good raid, the balance team was just smoking some grass on final pas

[@kjax139]

@@ForgeCrow the only fun part I had was launching myself and trying to kill my friends. Other than that I did exactly what datto said. Spray my machine gun

[@ForgeCrow]

@@kjax139 Do it again without a machine gun then. It's the same as doing Last Wish, the enemies are brain dead weak but the fun is playing the raid itself.

[@falloutFG]

Datto when you said that it felt like you couldn’t do anything to help and you only took a lead on the third encounter I felt that on a spiritual level that was exactly what I went through. Spirit animal! 😂

[@lyrictdk]

I'm actually pissed about this too, I'm not a hardcore player but day one raids weren't for me and I understood and accepted that. It was always there for me to try eventually but now that it's easy there's no point 😭 I never wanted a guarantee day one clear, that's pathetic it's a contest for a reason

[@Guile_The_Exile]

27:44 caught me off guard LMFAO. It never fails, every time there's always a little segment in the beginning somewhere in the middle sprinkled in the end that has datto breaking his script for a moment and it's always hilarious. 😂

[@Eclipse4589]

Haha yeah. Bricks from beyond is just ridiculous went back and did a trio rhulk after the new raid after he died I looked around and saw 13 god damn bricks on the floor. Da fuck

[@youngburgerpatty]

with the fuckin scout mod for allies too my god man, mfers used to get booted out the raid for not having heavy synths LMAO

[@Machosause]

The reason I compare new raids to Last Wish is the mechanics and setpeices. The creativity of going into the boss to destroy it's heart, then having to run and parkour with the heart as your teammates get sucked into an arena. Just feels like raids haven't been as flowy/creative, or complex as Last Wish

[@destinytvg6466]

That’s when Activision was still with Bungie

[@F-aber]

Well that happens when you have 3 studios working on one game, you can produce a lot more content and give the stuff you make more attention. That however will probably never happen again with Bungie

[@GeoGyf]

Disagree. While Forsaken cant be really topped content-wsie since there 2 additional & smaller studios working together with Bungie, Last Wish raid is very similar to the Dreaming City especially aesthetically (very similar with how Root of Nightmares is aesthetically similar with Vow of the Disciple).

[@odst554]

And yet when Last Wish came out people were still mad calling it "too hard" and "not easily accessible for new/ returning players" the TL DR of the is that the Destiny community is never happy with what Bungie make.

[@Sfcfan120]

@@odst554 yep. Also the reason last wish took so long was because riven and especially vault are just badly designed encounters. The fact that people were just brute forcing vault instead of actually doing the mechanics is proof of that. Last wish is a good raid but its extremely overrated

[@markmormando6700]

I think part of what made Last Wish really cool too were the mechanics. You had to sit down and figure out what to do, especially with the Vault encounter. Sure the power gap was incredibly large, but at the very least, it felt like you really had to (and still have to) think about how you clear each encounter there.

[@TheFirstCurse1]

Last Wish is amazing because everyone needs to do something. There is no carrying. You all have a very important part to play and if even one of you screws up a little bit you could cause a wipe. That's why it's the best raid, and it's how most raids should be made. Some easier raids here and there are fine, but too many of them allow for some players to just be carried.

[@reachcole514]

My least favorite raid mechanically. Got 2 1Ks on my 6th run and barely ever played it again.

[@ADisneyVillain]

Anyone else coming back to this video after Salvation's Edge?

[@alecthomas7216]

I’m so sad about not being able to finish it even with the extra time. All my friends had work Friday and couldn’t get on early enough on Saturday to beat it. We got through the first two encounters though so I can be proud of that at least

[@chatt3195]

To be honest you have nailed it, if patrol enemies are scarier then contest raid enemies we have a problem….

[@DarkDemon259]

Personally I think the mechanics of the raid were dungeon level (with the exception of the planets encounter). You can even draw parallels to how a team would get to a damage phase. Normally raid bosses are on a mechanical timer to get to dps and/or you typically need to do some verbal communication within that timer to start doing damage and avoid a wipe. Needing Rhulk to shoot lasers/use his glaive attack and having the team call out symbols, needing Atheon to teleport the team and having the team call out oracles, needing Taniks to do the thing to drop his bombs and needing the team to call out which boxes, needing oryx to open his crit spot and needing the team to call out which platform, etc. Plus they almost always involve 4 people participating in the mechanic to do it as intended. With Nezerac, dps is triggered by the skill of 2 runners and it can be easily done without any communication at all. This is similar to why Cota feels more like a dungeon boss than a raid boss. Wipes and resets were also less frustrating because you can rush a dps phase with pure skill without ever bothering with the wipe mechanic. Even if you do it using the legit strategy, it still feels like DPS is started on the players' time rather than the encounter's time. With the planet encounter feeling like the only one with raid level mechanics (that require 4 people who understand what to do) and with those mechanics being so different from the rest of the raid, it feels like RoN was meant to be a dungeon with 3 encounters and the planet encounter was added to bring it up to raid status.

[@woopinnn1686]

Planets mechanics aren’t even that complicated tbh, just a lot of adds on Contest mode.

[@DarkDemon259]

@@woopinnn1686 Most raid mechanics aren't complicated in theory but my point is that it's complicated enough to need clear communication between 3-4 players to get it done.

[@Collin_J]

I think it's great to have a raid with simpler mechanics. Since Levi left there hasn't been a great "first" raid. Contest WAS too easy, and Nezerac needs a buff. Bungie has room to add mechanics for master mode if they choose

[@woopinnn1686]

@@DarkDemon259 it’s been duo-ed

[@DarkDemon259]

@@woopinnn1686 Should've emphasized the "as intended" part. Atheon has also been soloed. Doesn't change the fact that the mechanics were made to have 3-4 people fulfilling various roles - opening the portal, using the relic to cleanse, calling out oracles, shooting the oracles. As for the planets encounter, they spawned 4 lieutenants that give the insight buff for a reason. Someone skilled enough would probably also be able to solo it with a bit of luck. It's a simple enough mechanic but definitely a bit more complex than the ones usually found in a dungeon.

[@ClancyTwoThirtyEight]

I keep coming back to this video because of how much it represents Datto’s passion for the game and how the general community doesn’t understand that certain things they say to people can vastly effect them in a negative way (legit, it felt depressing to hear Datto on what sounded like the verge of tears because of how much backlash the general community can cause). I hope you get World’s First one day man. You deserve it. We also deserve raid experiences that earns their reputation for being challenging endgame activities that are always at their hardest on Day 1, regardless of who wins the race or not. The race is temporary, the challenge is forever.

[@ssud11]

Eh he just sounded but salty to me for not getting it done fast enough.

[@mun123keet]

IMO the biggest contributor to why this raid has been underwhelming was because it was another "connect the dots" mechanic like Spire of the Watcher. When your mechanic doesn't require you to engage with the enemies, that's bad raid mechanic design. It's why loads of people had more fun on the Planet encounter because it completely ditches that "connect the dots" mechanic and opted for something completely different. It just feels like the RAD team at Bungie has ran out of ideas for interesting and challenging encounter designs because with the 4 encounter design, on top of reusing previous encounters' mechanics is getting really stale IMO. D2 King's Fall and Last Wish was what every raid should be; every encounter should feel and play different from each other.

[@bTabard]

The Planet encounter IS a connect the dots mechanic, but a well done one. I feel like that was supposed to be the first encounter, and agree with everyone else that the other 3 feel like they came from a dungeon they were working on

[@MattTheHuman9]

A simple mechanic isn’t the problem imo. The problem is that only 2 people have to interact with mechanics. The fact that the planet encounter is where a lot of people got stuck shows the problem with this raid, cause to get that done smoothly at least 4 people need to interact with the mechanics.

[@mriguy7989]

Their raid design and dungeon design philosophy is that each subsequent encounter builds upon the previous one. So throughout the raid, you're learning the mechanics a little bit at a time and then they all culminate (for the most part) at the final boss. This can be seen in Last Wish (to an extent), Garden of Salvation, Deep Stone Crypt, Vow of the Disciple, and now in Root of Nightmares. Kings Fall's even does this to an extent with every boss requiring some form of "stand in this aura to do dps", but not as heavily as the newer D2 raids (but this is to be expected because KF is a D1 raid, where the design philosophy wasn't the same as it is now). Asking for something different is asking the raid design team to literally throw out everything they've done to this point and have them start over from scratch with their ideas. Not saying it would never happen, it just probably won't happen any time soon (as in not while Destiny 2 is still the mainline, current game of the franchise).

[@ErikTaylor]

I speak as one of those who has always been just outside the fire. I have participated in each day 1 race contest modes since Deep Stone. I got my first Day 1 clear with this raid, and it felt incredible to get it with a team who have tried numerous times... and always fallen short. For us this was still something we had to work at. BUT: I know it isn't the same experience as has existed in the past. I didn't get my clear with any kind of illusions that it was on par with having cleared any of the other raids in the same circumstance. I knew it was easier than anything before. Not just because of the design... but because of the power creep, the ease of putting together builds, and of course because of the ammo availability. Some of it can also be attributed to our constant growth as players, we get better as the years go on. But there was still something off about it and I could see that. Sure, even at 43k clears that's still only 5% of the overall playerbase (according to some sources, I don't know the entire validity of that.) That's still a very small number, but it's much larger than it has been and I understand why that's sad. Even as someone getting my very first clear and being elated at it... I get why that's sad. I am sad that hardcores have lost their pinnacle mode. I have always wished that contest was a toggleable setting, so that hardcore players could go do contest to stay challenged. Now... it wouldn't matter, and that's sad. I hope that something went wrong on the backend, which is an odd thing to say. I hope that they just forgot to flip a switch... but I doubt it. That is sad. I don't want to go back to a world where I don't get a clear... but I also don't want that clear to come at the expense of the true experience of a contest mode attempt. Even for those of us who didn't clear on contest in the past... some of us still really loved being challenged. I got my clear. I'll wear my emblem, and I'll be proud of how my team performed over our broken up hours over the course of two days. However, I still feel sad for those who want to be challenged.

[@Fm_gray]

According to destiny raid report 44% of players who attempted contest mode completed it. There are less players with xurs bluebarry rescue emblem than this day 1 emblem. Charity emblems are more rare. Code emblems are more rare

[@alynx7689]

Personally I like the day 1 raid bc of the pure “awe” behind a team being able to do it. To me it’s like a woah idk how I could do this but heck I’ll get my team together and attempt it. At the end of the day whether or not my team completes it, the legacy of some raid having an extremely challenging day 1 experience is more worth it than getting the emblem or what not. That being said I feel like it was a little underwhelming having the worlds first team complete it so quickly because that “oh damn that was a long day 1 clear” feeling isn’t there anymore. Will say though that this was a very beautiful and awesome looking raid and I’m glad the encounters are relatively fun. Looking forward to seeing what comes in final shape!

[@Josh_2992]

While I can see how it sucks for the top 1% of the playerbase, I think it was nice that people that never get a chance to get involved, got to and maybe even got a clear. Lots of people were amped about that. Now if this is the new norm, I'll take the complaining a bit more seriously, but as a most likely one off its fine.

[@JustMarr]

After my clear I was giving an advice to my clanmate on what to bring to a raid. My first question was: "Why don't you have an exotic armor equipped?" and his response was: "i'm not into that". I rolled my eyes, give him some weapon advice and left for the day. Next day he got a clear. Clear sign on the raid challange. Edit: on contest ofc

[@drewcrewsdpt]

I honestly agree with basically everything you said. I’m all for more people trying day one raid. But I don’t want it so easy that the only reason why my raid team is gonna run it is just to get the triumphs done and then we will probably never touch this raid again because we can run it 3 times on a Tuesday night in 1.5 hours.

[@amorfati4927]

That’s how I picture this raid as well. My RL mates and I have a clan but they’re not into the hardest content so if I want to do contest mode I have to find an LFG (which I don’t take time off for work so this being 48 hours in theory would of made it possible… except I still ended up clearing it in the 24 hours… I just got up like I normally do on Saturday and I beat it before my wife and child even woke up). The last raid they really ran regularly was DSC and that was a “run it on all 3 characters within a couple hours.” This will definitely end up being the same. Longest part of this raid is the jumping puzzles between encounters.

[@Lotoran]

This is a take from a guy who has less than 10 raids cleared in D2. I absolutely love that there is so much engagement from the community on Day 1 raid. This is healthy for the community in some ways and hopefully counteracts the decisions in regard to difficulty in other areas (good god Mars nightfall, why?). Day 1 raid is an event and more people joined in on the celebration than ever before. However... While the normal difficulty of the raid should be accessible to any group with decent enough communication and/or knowledge, the contest mode should be more difficult than this. Outside of GM nightfalls and ToO this is THE big event for high-skill players. Everyone has fun in different ways and they deserve to have fun too. Hopefully, there's a way to keep engagement numbers up, because that's what Bungie wants, and keep the challenge up for high-skill players. I don't know what that is though, but maybe this raid has inspired people enough to participate in the next one even if there's a difficulty spike.

[@koibitocorazon6365]

You want a participation trophy just say so dude

[@devinnix9071]

@@koibitocorazon6365 cry

[@wrathfulgaming3373]

​@@koibitocorazon6365 cope.

[@corylyonsmusic]

Yes, there are always pros and cons to everything. But hopefully, in hearing this one is easier than usual, some people might actually attempt one for the first time, and realize why so many of adore destiny 2 raids. Hoping we gets lots of new raiding guardians.

[@Boomerangofjustice]

Honestly the best comment i've seen. I still have raid anxiety myself but seeing the comparatively enormous number of clears and presumably people who even just tried out the Raid is very heartening. Even if its too easy and needs some tuning, I think it serves as a great case study for future content

[@adammercy7579]

I’m rewatching this after watching Datto’s clear of the Final Shape raid and Episode Revnant’s dungeon. It’s cool to see the change from this to that.

[@Breadumi]

That mention of the spire of stars boss sent me back. Bugs aside, that raid was just a fun teamwork experience from start to finish. Probably one of the most fun final encounters they've made, in my book it's only topped by Riven. But I knew that once Bungie just didn't even try to fundamentally fix the Riven cheese strats that raid difficulty days were numbered. The power grind in Forsaken was miserable but seeing Riven go down on my screen after 3 days of attempts was so immensely satisfying, and now Nez just sits there in front of you while you shake your dick at him. It's just so depressing to look at. It's sad to see how low the bar is now. In my experience the OG leviathan raid was a perfect raid for newbies! The difficulty didn't need to go any lower than that - two experienced players could very easily navigate and do 90% of the work of each encounter on their own and newbies could take the time to learn without having to have perfect loadouts or specific damage strats. Even then, that last 10% that the newbies had to understand and execute was actually critical to the success of the encounter, so they came away feeling like they contributed instead of being relegated to add clear. Now this new raid is just completely outclassed by the Shattered Throne dungeon in every way. It's hard to even call it a raid, it's harsh but man I just cannot comprehend how this happened.

[@yeetyeetbeep]

You need to put into perspective, that fixing the Riven cheese would mean they need to redo the whole encounter. Which equals time and money + they had a really great encounter, doing Riven legit is still one of the best encounters this game has to offer, probably even the pinnacle of bossfights in the whole franchise. You can’t blame people for cheesing Riven (everyone does it, its just more time efficient and easier) and you can’t blame Bungie for not fixing it.

[@flamingwayz7964]

Agreed. Been trying day ones for a couple years now, and every time I've gotten super close. Finally got a decent team this year, and I got the clear, but it didn't feel like an accomplishment. Bungie really dropped the ball this time around, and I would be heartbroken if this is going to be the new standard for contest mode going forward.

[@mateominiati5256]

Same exact feeling. Always running with sub-par teammates. This time, I've got a banger team, we destroyed the raid in 5h. We were literally doing day 1 helps for some friends

[@tahafaruqi6651]

I am here with you. Have bee attempting day 1 raids since garden and everytime I would get super close but couldnt complete it for one reason or the other. This time I joined literally the first LFG post I saw saying LF1M Titan must have clears/exp and we got the clear in 12hrs. We didnt even do any practice runs before. It definetly felt contest was tuned down, bosses being 2 phased when my teams damage wasnt even optomized so well. Even the tormentors were dying so quickly. The only thing that felt like a threat was the void attack from boss but apparantly that could be tanked if you stand in a WELL with Glaive blocking attack. My friend who had never attempted a single contest mode raid in his life got a completion with LFG.

[@goosekerr5985]

I’m gonna be honest, getting that contest clear from this raid felt so good it was my first time finishing a raid on contest which was a lot of fun for me and also it was my first attempt at day one raiding, but seeing all these things about all the people that think that the raid was far too easy is really demoralizing and I’m not even proud anymore, not saying datto’s the same but there’s a lot of people that just straight up don’t think it should qualify for people who beat contest on day two it just sucks and I think it has kind of ruined day one raiding for me

[@jdoggydogg]

Who cares what others think? Destiny has one of the most toxic communities in gaming. Be happy and proud that you did it and piss on these crybaby hardcores.

[@zachhogan7865]

Be proud of yourself man. As long as you and your team enjoyed the experience that's all that matters. Don't get caught up in other people's egos.

[@hokey9175]

I think it was too easy but that shouldn't disqualify a clear. Just because elitists think it's too easy, it doesn't mean it wasn't hard. Enjoy the experience because it's something special. Congrats on the clear!

[@SwoleakhulTheBlind]

The raid was far too easy. Get over it 🤣 the whole thing has been three manned, flawlessed, 2 encounters duod, 1 encounter solo‘d and speedran in like 34min ON CONTEST.

[@12_gageshotgun90]

Joe Blackburn heard Datto say we will never get another last wish and he respond with "you wanna bet a fuckin raid belt on it"

[@BiggaMyMan]

I'm genuinely so happy at least one content creator had the balls to say what every endgame player was thinking

[@dusk2308]

yea datto is pretty based

[@mun123keet]

I mean, Saltagreppo is also vocal about endgame not being hard enough but he gets shit on constantly. Datto on the other hand, has people who would use his opinion as facts.

[@BiggaMyMan]

@@mun123keet There's a good image out there that represents exactly what you're talking about, lol.

[@V1rtualFlod]

Thank you for talking about the frame bug. This is what prevented my team from clearing the raid and we didn't know until after. We were getting 1 shot by the cleaves for 15 hours before throwing in the towel. I get that these things can be hard to fix, but this bug was completely unacceptable and has turned my group off of Destiny. This was going to be our first contest clear, but instead we're left feeling defeated for something that wasn't even our fault. Everyone is talking about how easy the raid is (and I agree), but it makes me feel like shit knowing we couldn't even clear the easiest contest raid.

[@yourbrojohno]

You still got one shot at 30fps

[@DunkMyNuts]

​@@AodinValar Did you know that they clipped through cover?(:

[@lgtokyo2665]

There were 2 videos out before contest mode ended that explained what to do. So you’re telling me the 6 people in your raiding party, not a single soul thought “hey 15 hours wasted, let me quickly check another strat”. Stupid is as stupid does…

[@trankhoa5248]

​@@lgtokyo2665because i don't like to low my settings that affect my enjoyment of the raid. And it NEVER being bad like this, this raid is sh*t

[@chpoppinggaming]

I prepped for the whole year, i did low mans, i did team building, i did loadout prep, i reconsidered my actions during my previous day one attempts, i was commited to improvement just for everything to not matter, lol (we started on reset when it opened and were done in 8 hours). I will miss Elitist Datto because he always managed to get words from my tongue.

[@simeonjansen5559]

I guess your team wasnt good enough if other can do it in 3 hours

[@reachcole514]

8 hours is a long time bud

[@thebestbet1]

8 hours bro.. my man didn't prep well

[@chpoppinggaming]

@@simeonjansen5559 don't worry, we will get better

[@chpoppinggaming]

@@reachcole514 we got ~2500th clear, which is not a bad placement for post GoS contests IMO. Yes, maybe too long, but we fucked around and just tried to have a good time overall.

[@redactedredacted8107]

First video of yours I've watched. Thank you for articulating my rage in a concise manner.

[@BetaMind]

I'ma miss elitist Datto, he always had great insight and perspective. I never even thought about how Neomuna patrol/legend lost sector difficulty felt harder than the contest mode raid. Also love the jab at Divinity, imagine if it still had the same potency as it used to for this raid.

[@smittywerbenjagermanjesen2720]

It at least pushed people to risk using tractor or more tethers/void weaken grenades more... but let's at least be glad they nerfed Divinity somewhat

[@thebetus8803]

Retrofit with bricks from beyond is absolutely hilarious and one of the wildest things Bungie unintentionally created😊

[@nomad-8260]

I’ve been using a commemoration as my primary since I got the bricks mod and I don’t think I’ve reloaded it more than 10 times total

[@thebetus8803]

@@nomad-8260 devour + walking forward while holding on the trigger = a good time

[@Jake-um4gg]

@@nomad-8260 im new and this is the gun i want the most

[@nomad-8260]

@@Jake-um4gg Deep stone crypt is farmable this week so find a group willing to take you through it on lfg

[@Illicitpopsicle]

As a non-hardcore non-raider who nevertheless keeps track of these things, I was astonished to see someone finish the raid on day one during contest mode after only a couple hours. I associate these parts of the game with the absolute most challenging content, and if people are finishing it at its supposed absolute hardest in the time it takes to do a handful of nightfalls, then I think Datto’s analysis that it’s way too easy is probably spot on. Edit: obvious props to the world’s first raiders, they did also put in an incredible performance.

[@thenightingale7405]

True, but I don't have a reason to care. It's like poor people that care about how much we tax billionaires. Ultimately, the concerns of a high end elite raider just don't matter to me. I might eventually get a raid exotic this time, which I haven't done since divinity, so to me that is a good raid.

[@roguechlnchllla6564]

Its not just that its easy, although thats his main point, its that the majority of players are encouraged to do absolutely nothing other than damage ads and the boss when damage phase goes up. This is my main issue with the raid. Definitely not a hardcore player, but I do like raiding. Like take Scourge of the Past for example. A pretty easy raid, actually completed in a shorter amount of time than this one in contest mode. But everyone had to engage with at least some of the mechanics, and people were encouraged to split the remaining mechanics amongst themselves. It actually provided a unique experience for the entire duration of the raid for everyone involved. For half the team, Root of Nightmares is pretty much just ad-clear for the entire thing.

[@SpyroThunder]

We have had very fast day 1’s before. Typically that was when players were higher level than the raid’s rewards even on day 1. Wrath and Scouge. We’ve also had very short and easy raids like eater of worlds that basically had a long jumping puzzle, short encounter then a boss. Those were cleared in about 2 hours. Now having last wish into scourge where we had people the equivalent of -60 today versus riven to overleveling scouge created contest mode. Having people on the same level via contest mode was fantastic. Making the power grind less was also great. Not only to have more people able to go for contest clears but also because leveling kinda sucks at this point. Having contest on a Saturday was also fantastic but Bungie wants more people there in case of massive server issues a la vow which is totally understandable. And I’m very glad when Bungie moved the raid date to Friday they also gave us 48 hours for people who had real life obligations before being able to enter the raid. Because for some it’s about the race but for the majority it’s about the contest experience. I hope this was just a fluke and either the scaling was wrong or Bungie just didn’t fully realize how insanely powerful we are.

[@arkura1812]

if u look at raid stats though 2-4 hrs is the normal tiem for a worlds first to take. last wish being the outlier. vow only took so logn due to all teh crashes.

[@SpyroThunder]

@@arkura1812 it’s really more like 5-6 average. Reprised raids are naturally completed quicker because people already know 99% of the mechanics. Other outliers than last wish are part of the reason contest exists. And Vow would have still taken about 5-6

[@re11ek]

Elitist Datto is a very important voice in the community. Even if it feels like you can't convince anyone, simply by being a beloved figure in the community advocating for hardcore PvE content. It means a lot to us. I completely understand if we don't see videos like this again, but I really, really, really hope we do. You lend a sorely needed voice to the hardcore audience that isn't immediately written off by casuals (because almost everyone in the community loves you, as they should). I really appreciate you Datto, and the work you do.

[@intrinsic_melon]

My team was going into contest with no expectations or prep. we arent elite gamers and we made it to the third encounter. I dont believe we could make it any further if we wanted to but i was not expecting us to get past the first encounter so im quite happy. i fully agree with dattos take, but it was very fun to play day one and make more progress than we normally would

[@NovemberHotel]

Elitist Datto is Best Datto.

[@leoalpha7]

I didn't partake in this raid race as my last raid race experiences were nightmares. There were two teams in my clan and only one of them cleared it during contest mode. I feel bad for the other team because I understand how hard it can be to put in a lot of effort just to give up when you realize you aren't able to beat an encounter. However, it is astonishing to hear that more players cleared this raid on contest mode than all other raids minus challenge clears *combined*. After the Vow raid race, I thought it was very generous of Bungie to extend the contest mode to 48 hours and it sound like there were any issues during the race unlike the start of Vow. I don't know what else Bungie did to the raid, but the extension 24 hour extension, in my opinion, should have been enough to allow more players to complete it on contest. If they didn't change anything else with the contest mode then perhaps the raid is just built to be easier than ever. I'm not always looking to have full team on max cooperation on mechanics, but when more than half of the team can be ad clear and nothing else, there is probably an issue with the way the mechanics were designed. I look forward to trying it out, but the contest mode sounds like a complete disappointment.

[@bluebattlehawk]

Same take as you man - I sat this one out because Vow kicked my ass for 18hrs straight and we didn't have the ad clear/skill to get past the gauntlet. This one seemed wildly easy from what I heard - which is crazy to me.

[@havmercy]

As an old gamer with 5 kids and a full time job , last raid i had time x was leviathan . I do everything else in the game specially dungeons as they r much shorter and less coordination needed . That said, I cleared this Raid Twice Sunday and x some reason I feel SAD 😢

[@foxunitgreyfox6779]

Another banger! 🔥🔥 We need that Elitist Datto video playlist!

[@urazz7739]

I didn't take part in the day 1/2 contest mode and usually avoid it myself. I did clear the raid afterward on Sunday evening when contest mode was done and outside of learning mechanics, I found the raid to be fairly easy. From what I saw and was told by my friends that did take part, Contest mode definitely looked poorly tuned in the difficulty being too easy. It was easier than harder difficulties in other content and that shouldn't be a thing. Contest mode first clear should not be finished in 2 and a half hours in my opinion.

[@_-Tom-_]

Datto, you encapsulated everything about this raid and the problems it’s brought up since it’s launch perfectly, as well as explaining the what and the why of the hardcore players’ sentiments. I hope more people will see this video to understand why this day one raid failed

[@doomslayer8025]

People this is honestly sad and I for one will not preorder the next expansion they stoped the ball so hard with this 100$ dlc that many people won’t come back. If all they want is a casual they can have it I’ll play a game that respects my time

[@camshaft989]

Na it only failed to the 1%...and the other 99% just wanna play instead of constantly hearing ppl cry...If the 1% git what they want there would be no destiny cause the 99% dont have unlimited hrs to play each day

[@ExtraordinaryFate]

@@doomslayer8025 Speaking of respecting your time, your post makes no sense. This is the one raid that doesn’t require needing 12+ hours to just slam your head against a wall.

[@aura8940]

@camshaft9897 God forbid the hardcore members of the community get 2 DAYS A YEAR where they can be challenged.

[@dillonthevillon3719]

It didn’t fail for the vast majority of players lmao

[@Wholesomecasual]

Tbh this validated the way I was feeling so thank you. At the end of the raid and seeing a solo contest encounter clears it just crushed my soul as someone who LOVES day one and I feel it should be built to be difficult. It is like Christmas for hardcore dedicated players. So excited and you can barely sleep the night before, and it was like all the preparation was for nothing. I die more on neomuna than during day one or contest now. I just tell ppl I have elitist opinions at this point

[@berndguggi6057]

If you look at the whole picture of available raids Bunge created an entry level raid and expanded their offer to the players. You can choose between old style raids like VOG, more mechnic centred ones and entry level raids like RON.

[@ItzzBrandonn]

Exactly. Not every raid has to be hard anyways if you make every raid hard the casuals or new players won't want to do the activity.

[@Knights0fBlood]

@@ItzzBrandonn why should the new raid not be hard? old raids are easy especially after people complete it, and contest mode is removed. day 1 raids are supposed to be difficult, they always had they thrill about them and this was so underwhelming.

[@FacelessKill3R1]

@@Knights0fBlood have you tried LFGing the older raids? there are hardly any sherpa runs anymore for VoG or Last Wish or Garden. How are the new players supposed to learn the "easy/entry level" raids, as you put them. Yes, RoN was probably made easier for metrics reasons but that doesn't mean Contest should have been THAT easy.

[@Knights0fBlood]

@FacelessKill3R1 true, people always say "KWTD"

[@babytricep437]

@@ItzzBrandonn No???????? It’s the NEWEST shit. It shouldn’t be made for babies, because they cried enough that they suck ass

[@colethestranger5905]

Elitist Datto needs to exist. We need this take.... I need this take. Bungie needs this take. It's the correct take.