Destiny 2 Lore - Crow's Conscience, Saladin's Choice, Operation Elbrus Lore & Story

[@walshy1760]

17:44 Crow : “You understa…” Barb : *DPS INITIATED*

[@VallornDeathblade]

*the sound of synchronized Izi charges echos through the room*

[@cptghostnova75]

Barb showed his own version of mercy

[@ritsukaseriyko1491]

I'm with Barb

[@codybuster6211]

Lmao I laughed so hard

[@anthonyvillanova5386]

That shit had me on the floor laughing, it was so perfectly timed haha

[@aidanfedorochko3728]

Honestly this is a great development as it now allows for future conflicts especially now that Saladin is a member of the Cabal. It’s a massive deal now.

[@dcitron77]

I wouldn't say Saladin is a member of the Cabal, he's just a leading figure in the alliance with them, but I agree, this opens up some awesome possibilities for the story.

[@DocDeeISC]

@@dcitron77 he is fully under Caiatl's command. She owns him, for lack of a better word. He no longer has any ties or responsibilities to the Vanguard or the City. Sure, having a human on the Cabal War Council is a huge step toward maintaining our alliance, but he's 100% Cabal now. That's why he left the symbols of his Iron Lord office behind for Crow.

[@AREB1DER]

I hope we get his axe as a glaive like weapon or even a heavy weapon based on the relic from rise of iron.

[@bobafett3855]

Admiral Thrawn is a bad dude

[@AREB1DER]

@@bobafett3855 edit nvm just noticed...also imagine an new cabal legion named like the azure wolf’s or something to that effect

[@Thecoffeeconsumer]

Braccus Forge is an amazing idea. He is already a warrior- where else would his brutality fit best other than with the Cabal?

[@TheForbidden_1ne]

Not only being a brutal warrior, but also having sage wisdom especially when it comes to conflict seeing as how he's lived for so long.

[@jeffmachem2702]

I agree but you have 69 likes.

[@adventurerwithacoolhat2531]

I wouldn't say it's his brutality, but he definitely may have a lot more in common with the war-centric minds.

[@VallornDeathblade]

Just imagine Cabal under his command taking on his principles. An army of space rhinos in green and white as the Iron Legion.

[@jaxonbuckway3540]

@@VallornDeathblade I didn't know I needed the iron legion until now

[@lyonharted31]

"The Iron Lords had something similar. We called it 'naming their deeds'." "Then we shall name them." Man, the writing has been sensational this season.

[@jazzhandssixninesixninesix40]

The writing this season makes me so excited for future seasons

[@sanrok2]

I really loved that interaction. It makes me hopeful for the Destiny tv show and/or movie.

[@garrettviewegh677]

I can imagine Saladin secretly enjoys working with Caital’s ascendancy, their sense of honor and duty may remind him of the Iron Lords. It’s fitting, considering that the Iron Lords were like chivalrous Knights, and the Cabal are honor-bound Roman Spartans.

[@v0id19]

I don't care what anyone says, Caiatl's "Indeed" was the single best moment of the whole season.

[@liamcool2139]

I didn’t know that the poor Psion was Caiatl’s closest friend. I feel extremely bad for her and I’m more outraged at Crow. Personally I love the psions. They are my first favorite race. I fell in love with them when I saw the three sister psions in Destiny 1 on Mars.

[@ybshaun4526]

The Psion Flayers were female?

[@sodsurendunkhorol1576]

@@ybshaun4526 we don't know the gender of destiny 1 Flayers but The Sundial Flayers were female and sisters

[@kdubfromtheboot]

The Flayers had the best cloaks for sure.

[@mirelinde5430]

I only feel bad for Crow because I hate the direction the writers have taken with his character. He’s almost insufferable, now, haha.

[@e1iteyoshi998]

Crow seems to forget that there is one thing that separates him from the Lucent Hive: he was not of his own will when he committed the deeds that he did. The Lucent Hive are actively serving Savathun and her plans to try and have Hive wield the Light while Crow's actions were a result of deception from Savathun believing he was serving Mara when it was actually Riven instead. He was a pawn like how everyone else was in her plans.

[@blackout2189]

Crow: "You understand?" Barb: "Your pleas fall on deaf ears."

[@lukebarroso449]

I love the whole story for this season so far, even with Saladin "switching" sides. It adds a pretty good perspective for an honorable knight doing what is right to defend someone regardless of consequences, a truly great display. Also when Caiatl quoted Sun Tzu I thought it was funny since I only ever see memes about him. 😂

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Zanny moment.

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Next thing we know is that Caiatl will ask how a guardian used the light to part a red sea and ask how much hive were killed to stain the sea red after reading the bible.

[@lukebarroso449]

@@Azrael_Equinox Indeed 😂

[@FM39__]

Imagine they make the iron banner revamps canon, also seeing as we got somewhat eliksni themed weapons last time, maybe we can get some new cabal themed weapons for IB?

[@sylokthedefiled]

that would be awesome

[@theneelay]

I feel like they should finally bring Efrideet back for Iron Banner. It makes sense.

[@sylokthedefiled]

@@theneelay not really imo. in the lore it apparently said that saladin will still visit the tower

[@sebastit7d]

@@theneelay Nah it will still be Saladin, he said he'd have to get killed before he gives up the iron banner, so it'd be like an allowed time off where he can train young wolves

[@fishnutz5196]

Its a hint at the Iron Banner remake since Caital will "pitch in some ideas". Saladin isnt going anywhere, he will be back once a month.

[@acubicsnake1630]

We talked a bit about redeemed hive and after reading one of the new lore book it seem that there is a small group of hive guardians that are unsure of the lucent hive action maybe this is a opportunity or something to note for later.

[@firepowerx-venezuelangame3890]

What’s that lore book?

[@garethsalkield1172]

I think bungie can note this and we can have some new races as player guardians? That would be great.

[@firepowerx-venezuelangame3890]

@@garethsalkield1172 that would be awesome, especially with the new lore, it means it def could happen

[@501sttrooperbmc2]

Is it the lucent moth lore book? I haven’t gotten any entries on that yet.

[@yeezychips3206]

@@firepowerx-venezuelangame3890 I think lucent tales 4 (euloch)?

[@steve_steve_steve]

It would be cool to see if the Dreadnaught was fully transformed into Savathuns throne world by the lucent hive, giving us an in universe reason for returning to Kings Fall, and it would be a light blessed version

[@jamespitt1126]

omg a taken king setting but with lucent hive architecture would be dope

[@cptghostnova75]

But that would mean we can’t fight oryx again because that would make no sense because he is dead now and i doubt he will get revived by the light. If bungie can find a way to make it work it would be awesome!

[@owenhandrich1176]

@@cptghostnova75 make it an illusion of oryx

[@spacemegalodon5049]

@CptGhostNOVA they could do some hive ritual with the touch of malice to bring him back.

[@derpmanaveragegamer7791]

@@cptghostnova75 hes not entirely dead, a fragment of his soul is still in the Touch of Malice scout rifle

[@perezo27]

Also I love the fact that the, I imagine, upcoming Iron Banner revamps, will canonically be assisted by Caiatl. Hell, I honestly wouldn't mind if Saladin wasn't the Vendor for the banner anymore, but Caiatl was. Not that Saladin should be gone from the game, keep him in the story, just that it would be hilarious to have Caiatl narrating, and her hulking Cabal figure in the tower giving us bounties.

[@tenacity25]

Honestly I kind of want to see both Saladin and Caiatl narrating some. It'd give the feeling that while Saladin is running it, Caiatl is actively here to watch the fight, which is just cool

[@Antare5]

@@tenacity25 I would be delighted by this development

[@dovahkiinhater]

Caiatl should narrate with him but she definitely should not be the vendor that would be horrible

[@Landis963]

@@tenacity25 Yes. All the yes. More Caiatl and Saladin banter is always welcome.

[@atsukana1704]

As you pick up a bounty *thoughtful groan*

[@RadicalPlasma]

I really think bungie is showing us some real effort in terms of compelling story here. We see motives form, be acted upon, and be reacted too for most all of the seasonal stories cast, and bungie deserves some props on the execution for a lot of this. It felt like it really hit home for crow especially, and I'm so glad we keep seeing him taking positive turns for the better the further we go

[@ritsukaseriyko1491]

Like Zavala said to him, "Not another word" Crow is a complete idiot, no matter what the wall flowers say.

[@lupvirga]

@@ritsukaseriyko1491 he made a Mistake, mistakes are bad if you don't learn them. Now, i think he's ready to expand BEYOND uldren and become who he really is, a guardian.

[@adeadphish7931]

Wow... Barb was having none of it with that shot fired... And I 100% get that. This is an intentionally frustrating story beat and even with the positive outcome that was salvaged from this, it is not an easy pill to swallow. Also, I am very worried about Crow and the growing layers of Trauma he has on him.

[@gustavobarros6166]

if you stop to think of it, most if not all guardians are pretty much fucked in the head in some way, maybe because we pick what is essentially a child, put a gun in their hands and say go kill shit

[@ritsukaseriyko1491]

@@gustavobarros6166 Speak for yourself.

[@gustavobarros6166]

@@ritsukaseriyko1491 said the random person on the internet with a genocide's worth of souls in the kill counter of its weapons

[@gustavobarros6166]

@@ritsukaseriyko1491 and a weeb

[@VallornDeathblade]

@@gustavobarros6166 Most of them don't subsequently get their past life and all its traumas crammed into their head by an elder god though.

[@robertlimbrick9580]

Barb there giving crow the look. "You know you fucked up right?" then trying to shoot him was hilarious.

[@MrHolmesjustin66]

I’m a hunter main & I never liked crow for a reason! Lmao

[@Lady_Omni]

Bringing Saladin back to the forefront of the story was such a great idea. The man is an absolute champion.

[@e1iteyoshi998]

Meanwhile he still doesn't know the truth about what really happened with SIVA and the Iron Lords that he lost.

[@mrxerxes7947]

@E1ite Yoshi he might already know given that he knows everything that has to do with the iron lords

[@e1iteyoshi998]

@@mrxerxes7947 Then why hasn't the truth been brought forth to him yet?

[@mrxerxes7947]

@E1ite Yoshi not everything happens in seasons or DLCs. Stuff can happen without us knowing. He might already know

[@Azrael_Equinox]

All I'm saying, we're going to get some very *_interesting_* lore on Saladin being a leader in the Cabal.

[@vincentcampbell8314]

Interesting in what regard exactly? The spicy kind of lore that’ll give degenerates (kinda like me) more material to work with? Or the non spicy kind that gives the lore fanatics among us something to dig through and figure out? Ps, I mean no offense to any lore people-

[@vette1]

@@vincentcampbell8314 he's a bracus so he has a pretty decent amount of say it will be interesting to see what his new colleagues will say and how the cabal society might say

[@Randomperson462]

What will really be interesting is if he earns the title of Primus.

[@the13inquisitor59]

@@Randomperson462 He's certainly got the capacity for that, since he was in command of Twilight Gap.

[@Randomperson462]

@@the13inquisitor59 Primus Forge has a really menacing ring to it.

[@DaiDidStuff]

Crow honestly might be one of my favorite characters and watching him on his knees in that scene, I was devastated but not mad at him. Naivety is sewn into us from birth until we learn from it and grow stronger. His point of view absolutely was understandable, he’s still trying to figure out why he would even be resurrected when he was so unforgivable and see that part of the hive in himself. It was his actions that stemmed from the naivety of being so young and going in bullheaded on his convictions that aren’t backed by full understanding. Crows actions brought him to his lowest point but I imagine this is his time to grow and reflect and by the time Lightfall comes, the Crow we’ll have then will be a much stronger individual than the one we have now. Definitely excited to see where Bungie takes him!

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

If you reas the Lore tab its even sadder. In his eyes Saladin gave him the push he needed to actually act, and he thought he was simply disconnecting the machine. First thing he did when the psion woke Up was greet him and invite him to ramen. Like he literally planned unplugging the machine and go eat something with a new alien buddy.... Worst thing is that they would have actually been potentially great Friends if that hadnt happened

[@gregstar4207]

No he’s a snowflake that’s always crying about something. It’s pathetic. Imagine feeling bad for the fuckin hive smh. Wish he got smoked by Caitl. Game would be better without him in it

[@jme-james]

I can't lie, I'm actually really surprised that majority of the community and Byf's impression of Saladin's actions in Season of the Chosen was to just label him as bloodthirsty, racist psychopath. The fact that he didn't betray Zavala's command or go against anyone or acted on his own was enough for me to see that he isn't as bad as people make him out to be. And this season further demonstrates that as well. Saladin has ALWAYS been a more nuanced, reasonable person even before this season. Yes, he is a grizzled old war veteran but he knows when to put the guns down when peace is achievable.

[@nikoclesceri2267]

people often forget that we as players have a lot more context and knowledge about what's going on than the people in-game. take season of the splicer for example, we know that house light are good people mainly because we have access to information that the people of the city didn't. how would you feel if a group of people that have been committing genocide to your people, many of them actively participating in and ordering it, move in right next to you and your leaders tell you not to fear them and actively punish you for doing so

[@jme-james]

@@nikoclesceri2267 No hostility from me, but it seems you're just agreeing with me or maybe you didn't understand what I'm saying. I agree with everything you're saying. But I feel in the Saladin situation people, as the player, had ALL the context to know and understand that Saladin WASN'T a bloodthirsty, racist psychopath....but chose to leave with that impression anyway for whatever reason. I understand why people was uneasy with the fallen living in the city. That's a totally understandable and unavoidable situation. Even though it sucked that there was infighting within the city, it made sense. What doesn't make sense is people are going "wow I had no idea Saladin was actually a good guy and could be reasonable" after seeing this seasons story unfold. Imo, Saladin's actions and nuanced takes on the Cabal, mercy and Crow's guilt is not surprising. Because I'd argue he's always been that way.

[@DocDeeISC]

@@jme-james I feel like these are the same people that say "Zavala bad he no invade Reef" after Cayde was killed.

[@Alcatraz760]

Now that you bring up that Saladin didn't betray Zavala, it made me realise someting. What Saladin was in Season of the Chosen, is exactly is what Crow is in this season. Both are strongly opposed to the respective ongoing events (Saladin with the idea of diplomacy, Crow with the psychic analysis), the difference is that Saladin is wise enough to not break the chain of command. He knows that despite his opinion, he will not go behind Zavala's back.

[@johnprice6271]

"When will you learn? When will you learn, that your actions have consequences?" - A very angry piece of bread.

[@paradoxlaboratories8005]

The ultimate step forward in Crow’s story would be for him and everyone to forgive the actions of Uldren Sov. Because that is more than just accepting him as an entirely different person. That would be redemption.

[@Razgar_Voxel]

I see the two as different people myself.

[@iwillhaveorder4690]

Can't forgive Uldren for what he did. Can't do it.

[@m.a.c5701]

Do not forgive Frankenstein, forgive Frankenstein’s monsters

[@paradoxlaboratories8005]

@@Razgar_Voxel If Uldren and Crow are two different people though, then Crow will never be able to claim any legitimate right to become the next Hunter Vanguard because it was Uldren that killed Cayde, not Crow.

[@JKeemTV]

@@paradoxlaboratories8005 And this is a problem why? He's not been fit to be the vanguard by a mile.

[@joserdz6257]

I honestly was afraid they were going to kill Saladin off. I'm still sad what happened happened.

[@quincystarfox5416]

When he was named forge it clocked in my head that now we actually have an alliance with the cabal and someone who can mediate between the guardians and cabal armies

[@iponce2]

@@quincystarfox5416 he's always been named Forge. It's his full name, Iron Lord Saladin Forge. You're 100 percent right though, it's literally in his name. We should have seen it coming lol

[@Lightna]

@@iponce2 not to mention the pulse rifle from Iron banner, Forge's Pledge. Thats when I learned about his last name

[@MikeE_wf]

I was feeling the tension then heard that he will be part of the cabal war counsil and I was happy to see that humanity will be represented in the cabal

[@fifteen8850]

@@MikeE_wf it’s a blessing in disguise. Not only does the crow learn a valuable lesson, but the ties between humanity and the cabal can become stronger (also the iron banner might get interesting)

[@thunderbird7020]

I think after Savathun not changing much after being revived, it’s safe to say that Crow still very much is like Uldren, if not completely being Uldren now that he has his memories back. Mara and Petra already pointed this out. This isn’t to say he’s evil. He no longer is controlled by millennia of manipulation by Mara, he doesn’t hate guardians anymore, and most importantly he isn’t corrupted by The black garden and Riven anymore. But he still clearly holds the naivety Uldren did. Uldren from what we know often charged in like Leeroy Jenkins to do what he thought was best without fully considering the risks of the situation. It’s clear that problem hasn’t gone away after his rebirth. I hope we can do better than Mara did at getting him tamed.

[@doktorsmiles2034]

But he is under influence of savathun and the crown of sorrows. Which may be even worse

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Mara didn't do a whole lot in the first place. All she did for him was throw him at her problems which he would inevitably f up for any sort of attention from his sister.

[@thunderbird7020]

@@Azrael_Equinox yeah, Mara wasn’t a great sister.

[@thunderbird7020]

@@doktorsmiles2034 I don’t think he’s anymore potentially under Savathuns influence than literally anyone else. We’ve all heard the song.

[@Corvaric]

@@doktorsmiles2034 Wait what Since when did Crow get in contact with the Crown of Sorrow? Am I missing something?

[@acgearsandarms1343]

17:46 Apparently BarbaricHam doesn’t understand, or at the least very against Crow’s actions.

[@Maddock_]

*Overloads Izanagi with lesson-teaching intent*

[@MrHolmesjustin66]

At the same time this is empress closest ally soooo yeah barb is right with that move lol

[@wazopaio]

Some Lucent Hive wielding the Light are actually unsure if what they're doing is right. If that's true, then there is an actual possibility that we may actually be able to fight alongside the Lightbearing Hive, the Cabal, and the Eliksni on the final battlefield.

[@Zilgral_Gaming]

Any lore books that say that? I wanna check 👀

[@KoruKinshi]

And Asher Mir as a Minotaur.

[@thundergod9696]

@@KoruKinshi kind of hope he comes back in Panopoles Frame.

[@KoruKinshi]

@@thundergod9696 "I AM MORE POWERFUL THAT YOU EVER WERE, BRAKION!!!!" *Summons Atheon*

[@ToastyBits]

This seasonal story, while short, is the best one so far in my opinion since seasonal stories were introduced. I'm hoping there is more to it. This is by far some of the best story writing outside of the main campaigns and lore books. I also love the progression of the Saladin-Crow-Caiatl storyline. She is truly one of the best foe-turned allies we have.

[@doktorsmiles2034]

Does misraaks count as foe turned friend? He never really engaged us but also did most of the time dodge any guardians. Only in season of the splicer he communicated and so on

[@iponce2]

@@doktorsmiles2034 I'd say he and Caiatl are equal in that department. Both kickass in different ways, both enemies we've had different relationships with in the past, both represent cultures different to ours but, again, in different ways than each other.

[@icejaythakid5480]

I don't think the full story is over yet, just the quest

[@Shinymold]

Had to pause at 17:53 to laugh my ass off at Barb Edit: Ok finished the whole vid now, JFC Saladin is a badass

[@Azrael_Equinox]

Crow: "oh f*ck, I accidentally killed the Psion emissary!" Barb: *"That sounds like a you problem."*

[@TheKusa5]

the character writing is so damn excellent this season, I love how Zavala, Crow, and Saladin were all written here, I really hope Crow grows from this experience, he's been my favorite character ever since we met him back in season of the hunt.

[@JD-kf7un]

What about him makes him ur favourite character?

[@Myke1992]

You can say Crow rises from this experience. As in Season of the Risen. I’m gonna guess the risen of this season is crow rising to his place as a guardian

[@bjornironsides6474]

This has been a very good expansion and season. The more they involve character interactions and cut scenes to connect to the players, the better the game gets.

[@b4st1on]

it's interesting because crow has been my least favorite since he started being the centerpiece of seasonal stories. interesting how destiny's writing draws people to different characters. i almost always agreed with any character disagreeing with crow, and crow's actions and the consequences of those actions are consistently bad, yet he never learns from any of the people he fails (osiris, salad, etc), then they have to write themselves out of a bad actions-bad consequences-copout ending loop. shame since i was really digging lord saladin's mercy story that this season comes to a close in a similar copout "twist" ending.

[@ShadowEclipex]

With a comment from Caiatl earlier where she said to Saladin "You think like a Primus" I expect next time we see Saladin return to in the story he might receive a promotion!

[@Shad0w5carab]

Just want to take a moment to appreciate the fact that we finally have a full cast of interesting, complex characters. The work the narrative team have done over the past few years to take Destiny’s story, which was basically a punchline for many years, to such a fascinating place. Bravo team 👏👏👏

[@notjohn5988]

Spinfoil theory: There’s definitely something to possibly gleam from the possibility of hive allies. I personally think Savathuns ghost will be allowed to resurrect her prolly in Lightfall to possibly save the traveler or at least the light from the Witness in a similar way to how she planned to “hide the traveler away” in her throne world. From her dialogue and actions, she seemed to be actively acting against the witness pre-death and I think this is why the traveler brought her and her brood back. She did seem to know she would be brought back through basic ghost means. The only problem is that she is naturally secretive so we put a stop to this without knowing her real motives. But I think this will be revealed through contact with immaru as the Witness draws near. There’s already lore of hive guardians questioning their morals and, of course, Fynch, so I hope there’s more to gleam from there

[@ninjawithramen]

The moral values are switched about. Simply put, Crow’s decision feels like moral relativism, where his actions were right in *his* eyes, *relative* to him, relative to the *situation.* In contrast, you have moral absolution where it doesn’t matter whether one *believes* it’s right or not-one’s perspective of belief doesn’t alter the absolute wrongness of his actions; what he did was absolutely wrong and has consequences: Saladin’s stance.

[@fifteen8850]

Imo his intentions and actions weren’t exactly “wrong”, he just was too focused on the benefits and didn’t consider the costs. Thankfully this turned out to be a bit of a blessing in disguise.

[@DavidUtau]

@@fifteen8850 that's moral relativism dude -.-

[@fifteen8850]

@@DavidUtau ok

[@PlagueInjected]

Also shows the respect Caitl has for Saladin by having him on her war council and not, like, the janitor.

[@peteraustin9057]

She definitely understands that he's experienced in combat and tactics, and it would be a waste to kill him or give him a figurehead position

[@PlagueInjected]

@@peteraustin9057 Yeah. She needs the alliance to work as much as we do but also has to look strong for her armies, so taking Saladin as an advisor and letting him keep IB satisfies the life debt as well as not angering the Vanguard. Pretty cool storytelling, narrative team is nailing it.

[@Myke1992]

I mean she tried getting Zavala on her war council if we didn’t defeat her champion in season of the chosen. She knows all about how great warriors them 2 are.

[@PlagueInjected]

@@Myke1992 I wonder if Crow will be "punished" by being made the Hunter Vanguard, since hunters generally see being in that position as being in a cage.

[@Myke1992]

@@PlagueInjected it’ll fit into the story. It’ll be a ‘punishment’ as well as a way for him to learn responsibility and all.

[@seanmurphy7845]

One thing to remember about the ritual and something I cited when I predicted that this was where things are going, bleeding her Throne World into the physical realm would also mean escaping Rhulk's Pyramid and the Scorn, freeing the Lucent Brood from their stalemate within the Throne World against them.

[@DavidWilliams-nu3en]

And close enough to protect the traveler.

[@ritsukaseriyko1491]

@@DavidWilliams-nu3en Yeah right.

[@Landis963]

@@DavidWilliams-nu3en You're missing some quote marks around "protect."

[@MrBone-qv5tz]

Zavala and Saladin knew very well of the consequences had they allowed Crow to be killed. Imagine how pissed Mara would be..?

[@m.a.c5701]

Oh shoot, I didn’t even think about that! Thank you for bringing that up!

[@doktorsmiles2034]

The thing is Killing crow would be fine, he can be rezzed. Killing his ghost would be 2 lives for one. Or are ghosts not Accounted within cabal ranks a living beings? Ghosts habe personality and characters. So just shoot crow and rez him.

[@S3Cs4uN8]

Not even that, think of how bad that would look to the wider guardian population. They're already dealing with low legitimacy in the wake of Cayde's death, guardians using the darkness, allowing the House of Light into the City and the FWC's failed coup. Letting the Cabal kill one of their own would likely cause many to abandon the vanguard entirely.

[@Shadow-s5x]

My Awoken Warlock backstory is he son of Mara sov and nephew of ulrden sov and his Royal title Prince of Dreaming city

[@derpdadouch3654]

@@S3Cs4uN8 Nah. Crow is making me lose faith in the vanguard. Plain and simple.

[@brothertonvideos]

We’re getting a lot of mortal enemies made friends in the destiny story (Saint & the eliksni, Saladin & the Cabal) and I am all for it!

[@strife1431]

Crow and the hive. Take my word on it.

[@venriskanu9751]

I feel Saladin’s “mortal enemy” is Rasputin. THAT’S the relationship I want to see a spotlight on.

[@Myke1992]

@@venriskanu9751 we had Zavala and Rasputin instead.

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

Eris and the H- Eris: *NEVER!*

[@shadowslayer591]

When I first did that mission I legitimately didn't shoot at the cabal until they shot at me because I didn't know if they where red Legion or Caials ascendancy

[@christophergarland7936]

The fact that they were wearing Red Legion colours doesn’t help.

[@joelrobinson5457]

@@christophergarland7936 yep that's the main reason completely

[@philipbrackett443]

22:59 that redux of "Brave The Storm" gave me goosebumps. I hope we get to listen to the full version soon

[@Slim-yu1ud]

Saladin needs to wear some cool new Cabal themed armor at some point. It would be so cool.

[@ShadowEclipex]

Or! A mix of Iron Lord and Cabal themed armor!

[@christophergarland7936]

I saw someone suggesting that he get his own legion, wearing Iron Lord colours. (Green and Silver come to mind)

[@ShadowEclipex]

@@christophergarland7936 Primus Forge!

[@jordandarnell-merrell1830]

17:40 - 17:48 was my favorite part of this video because that charge of Izzy is honestly how i felt towards crow at that time

[@dpm1789]

We have a fresh alliance with the cabal after last season. First thing WE are ordered to do is attack and kill dozens of them. Vanguard could have reached out. But we attacked. We would have believed that that would end the alliance. No one in the vanguard could have known caiatl would forgive us. No one blames us or the vanguard. No one throws shade on Zavala for being willing to attack and kill Caiatl to save crow. People are just like, “yep, that’s Zavala.” Crow feels the vanguard is stepping over a moral line and no one will listen to him, as they treat him as a child who just doesn’t understand. He tries to stop it AFTER we have found a way to stop the hives plans. He accidentally kills a single cabal. He, unlike us after killing dozens, is completely okay with accepting the consequences of his actions. Caiatl killing him, by the way, would have paid the debt and allowed the Coalition to continue, so his actions actually didn’t harm the Coalition. And we know the Psisorium could have been restarted with a different Psion, so not even that was a problem. And yet, everyone attacks Crow. SMH 🤦🏻‍♂️ Yes, Saladin is the hero of this arc. But Crow isn’t the villain. In the end, had Saladin and Zavala stayed out of it, Caiatl would have killed Crow and all would have remained status quo. Saladin stepping in gives Guardians a more stable foothold with Caiatl and given Crow a chance to mature as a Guardian.

[@redrix1787]

Crow: fucks up Barb: honed edge x4

[@thedeepthought2064]

This was such a great episode. The piece in regards to Crow was fantastic writing. The story itself emphasizes the idea that when we die and are reborn that we are formed by those people and environment around us. In Crows case he was, as Saladin said, a tool in which the vanguard used to kill and that he did not know who he truly was or what he truly stood for. His ideals and the actions he took were brash and childish because he is an ignorant child when it comes to experience of the real world consequences of actions. But in the end the lesson was that we as human beings die(sleep) every night and come back reborn(awaken) every day and have the freedom to make choices and realize who we are and what we stand for. Every day is a day for us to be better and learn from our mistakes and grow.

[@MeowNMH]

This week's story beat was incredible. I'm really liking where Bungo is taking the story line. The last year in particular have been fantastic.

[@wmad202]

Saladin mentioned that Caital had some recommendations for Iron Banner, maybe this is Bungie hinting at an Iron Banner update at some point?

[@beast0339]

I got goosebumps when I heard Elegy in the background of that cutscene. I really do love the Rise of Iron soundtrack. Also, Zavala telling Crow off like an angry parent was hilarious.

[@Spacemongerr]

If you didn't know: IRL Saladin was a competent and relatively merciful commander and ruler in the 1100s. He defended some towns in the desert southeast of Cyprus against some bloodthirsty travellers screaming Deus Vult or something.

[@courtadew1]

Glad you covered this. I was stunned when I saw the dead Scion. And then Saladin volunteered and I was on the edge of my seat. And now he's on the War council! Such good writing!

[@brianmccrary5369]

"You understand, don't you?" Guardian: "Yes." (Aggressively loads x4 izanagi's shot)

[@sparecannedsir]

Can I just say how perfect the music syncs up with the conversation at 8:25 Destiny’s ost is built different

[@neville21]

I’d like to have a chat with the safety engineer in charge of the Psiorium. How was Crow able to waltz in and turn it off if that would fry the Psion’s brain?

[@Northfan42]

While the moral absolutist/relativist argument is valid here, I think the bigger lesson here is "Don't mess with other people's equipment if you don't know how it works." Crow shutting down the Psisorium wasn't necessarily a problem, but him not even checking what would happen to the Psion was a major oversight. He made his decision to intervene, that's fine. He should have done his research before acting.

[@Blindluck92]

Nobody: Not the Light: Not the Darkness: Operation Elbrus: "I'm going to end Byf's whole schedule."

[@ImYourS3npai]

Thanks for covering this. This brief storyline is one of my favorites in Destiny 2 so far. It definitely shines light on the changes of Saladin.

[@grzegorzflorek5623]

War requires sacrifice. Apparently, so does peace...

[@timtim6373]

I honestly can’t get where crow is coming from I get that both the lucent hive and Crow were once monsters but unlike Crow When given a new chance at life the hive went back to their old ways (at least those we captured)

[@Azrael_Equinox]

I think Savathûn's plan with the Scarlet keep was something like this: Step 1: Manipulate Hashladûn to build the Scarlet keep overlooking the Pyramid under Luna's surface. Step 2: The Scarlet Keep would naturally act as a big **LOOK HERE** to guardians. This would draw guardians to wipe out the Hidden Swarm and discover the Pyramid which would lead them down the path to wielding Darkness. Step 3: Ensure that the power vacuum on the Moon is never filled by having Zulmak constantly resurected in the pit of Heresy for the sole reason of denying any leadership from being established. Step 4: Wait somewhere on the moon until guardians fully start wielding Stasis and other Dark powers before infiltrating the Vanguard as Osiris and causing shenanigans in the city which would turn the people of humanity against its political leaders (factions/vanguard). Step 5: Complete the Devotion-Bravery-Sacrifice thing and get the light after tricking a powerful paracausal force (Mara) to remover her little b*tch of a worm. Step 6: Trick the guardians into giving her memories back using Darkness for her so the Traveller favours her for using light only, which will allow her to continue her schemes. Step 7: Take away our light by gifting a hiding place to the Traveller in her Throne world then sealing it off from reality, ensuring only those within the proximity of her throne world has light. Step 8: Have the lucient brood would fill the power Vacuum on Luna and hold the Scarlet Keep with powerful Hive Guardians as she turned the moon into a Throne World/War Moon hybrid (similar to the Dreadnaught but on an even larger scale), this fusion process would likely grant light to those back on the moon. Step 9: Use the moon as a staging area to slaughter "The Coalition" forces and gift the Traveller a new light wielding army in the physical plane. Clearly this plan didn't work, due to Savathûn being dead. I guarantee Immaru was behind this season's story as only he would be privy to Savathûn's full vision for the system.

[@someone-pz4dg]

It quite the scheme when you see it all laid out in one place

[@Azrael_Equinox]

@@someone-pz4dg To be fair, the whole "Dreaming curse" thing had a lot more steps but I *refuse* to type out it out this close to midnight.

[@doktorsmiles2034]

Well I dont think savathun told any living soul more then it had to know at any given moment. So immaru wont know anything above what he needs to know Nobody exept savathuns knows the dimensions and steps of her plans

[@doktorsmiles2034]

@@someone-pz4dg this is a very simplified version You could write books if you detail everything

[@Azrael_Equinox]

@@doktorsmiles2034 Again that's probably why Immaru failed.

[@ianpaige1099]

I think my fave part about this season (or i believe it was a future seasons) was when Caital actually sat down and talked with Crow afterwards. Some of their conversations were very reserved amd Crow made it knowm to her that he wanted to prove his worth as an ally to the coalition. One instance is where Crow had a list of wanted Lucent Hive operatives and he pointed this out to Caital,in which she said "Ah,a young warrior whos eager to prove himself....I see you,Guardian." Another one is where he felt discouraged by the relentless onslaught of killing said Lucent Hive yet they just keep coming back,then she educates him why and how they act as such without having a fear of dying. It moments like these where I love seeing iconic charaters despite having "bad blood",they push through it and something 'nuturing' comes out of it.

[@steelgriffin7716]

I dig it. Now... Now we need a season, or even a big part of the next expansion, that we field both of our allies. In tandem. In concert. House Light, the Cabal Ascendancy and Queen Mara's Awoken. Oh and the Last City. Yes. Gonna be a wild ride.

[@tokencreature]

Such a great story here. I have grown to like Crow more and more each season, now he has a bigger path before him and a large burden to carry. Saladin has legend status in my mind, more so now than ever! The old wolf will be learning new tricks as he is now politician and warrior. Great recount, Byf! Excellent as always!

[@justsomerandomguy6562]

Barbs reaction at the end was exactly mine when I saw this happen

[@Myke1992]

The music when Zavala is talking to Saladin about being a protector fits perfectly.

[@yorha42s]

Crow. There are limits to compassion. Eliksni? Sure. Cabal? Sure, they have their own culture and healthy family dynamics (mostly) Meanwhile, the hive that spawn new soldiers by the thousands and have history of extinquishing guardians deserve no pity. Savathuun literally stole the Traveller like 2 weeks ago

[@sachyas]

She didn't steal it. The Traveler gave it willingly to her. It makes sense, given that she's the reason the Traveler survived the collapse in the first place. She lied to the Witness, sending it back into the system in wait for the Traveler. The Hive were lied to in the first place BY the Witness. Originally, the Krill ( Hive ) were going to be blessed by the Traveler, but the Deep got to them first. Promising them salvation if they devote themselves to killing millions. They've done what the Cabal and the Eliksni have done but on a much wider scale. That means forgiving them will be nigh impossible, but I'm still not entirely on the " let's just throw the idea of them working with us somewhat in the future " out the window either. Xivu is still out there, as is the possibility of Savathun being revived. There is still that theory that Savathun might come back to work with us. It'd be weird, and it probably seems like an impossibility, but I truly think we're going to need all the help we can get in the face of the Witness. When it comes down to it, most things in the Destiny universe simply want to live, Savathun even said so herself in one of the more recent Altars of Reflection. In the face of exctinction on a scale this large, you'd be surprised at how easy it is for people who once wanted nothing more than to kill one another to set differences aside for preservation. Afterward? Business as usual, sure. But until then? It isn't impossible.

[@monochrom1870]

The hive may be terrible, but savathun didn't steal the traveller. That barstard ball was going adios on us the moment it saw a potential way out.

[@yorha42s]

@@monochrom1870 the city and 90% of Guardians don’t know that. Fair on that last part so… The things she did to Osiris and the state she put him in would be a good replacement of that last bit. And the fact that she is the reason why Crow even has a reason to call himself a monster. Before that, he was merely a manipulated asshole

[@Zer0megaXX]

Yes and no, the only pitty the hive get from me is "what could of been" had they not been manipulated by the darkness, and not sent down the path they did. Possibly in time, thanks to ghosts akin to fynch on the luscent brood could things start to change, but even then, that is...a very very far off time if ever.

[@ruex1234]

I was hoping you'd delve into this after playing it Tuesday. Thanks for the quick quality content!

[@cashusbucks]

This was certainly a surprise but a pleasant one indeed. Such a wonderful twist to what seemed to just be a straight forward season. I was all for a Cabal alliance once the season kicked in too, and while Crow Def had his reasons for being worried about the treatment of the Lucent Hive...i assumed we'd still make it thru this season with our Vanguard in tact and a stronger Alliance than the one we started with. Low and behold my Iron Lords now will be Saluting Baraccus Forge going forward...i wonder if we get actual changes to IB or was that just a bit of lip service. And does Saladin gets new armor 🤔 maybe a slightly different Iron Banner, Banner

[@DocDeeISC]

I'm pretty sure this is an in-lore tie to the upcoming Banner changes. I would also expect to see some changes to Saladin's look, trade in the Titan armor for something a little more Cabal-like. He better still have a cape though.

[@cashusbucks]

@@DocDeeISC 🤞🏾🤞🏾 for those changes cuz in universe dialogue that turns into actual in Game changes is super cool. And agreed, updated look 👍🏾 no cape 👎🏾

[@Myke1992]

@@DocDeeISC he’d keep the cape because of the crest on the back of it but prob get cabal armor and put the iron wolves on it to show he’s still an iron lord regardless of being part of the cabal war council now.

[@draysmusicalshtposts6340]

Ik cloaks are a hunter thing but i want his baller cape. (Ik it will never happen but a grug can dream)

[@cashusbucks]

@@draysmusicalshtposts6340 I'd never take it off

[@walrideralp6275]

you see Crow... understanding and acceptance are not equivalent.

[@keronstewart9446]

I'm afraid your forgetting one thing BYF! that is the viral chant of savathun as well as the crown of sorrow! i have a sneaky feeling that crow did this not because of conscience or mercy for the hive, but due to the effects of savathun's song aka he might be a sleeper agent without knowing it!

[@danotron3000]

I'm hoping Saladin's battle axe means Crow will have a duty in the Iron Banner/ Iron Temple: giving Crow a chance to honor others in some way rather than obsessing about who he is or who he used to be.

[@saitomitsurugi18]

One thing I think that also needs to be considered is that Saladin was at fault by not seeing Crow for Crow. He only saw Uldren and it wasn't until the Psion revealed that he was in pain that he made these developments. He honestly messed up by omitting that the Hive weren't suffering. Which was Crow's primary concern. Had Saladin acted as a protector as Zavala advised then this could've been avoided. But ultimately Saladin did act as a protector as Zavala said he was.

[@snakebitcat]

The lesson Saladin should have learned from the mercy he showed that girl was that it's not enough to show mercy and then abandon someone. With his decision here, he showed that he finally learned that lesson.

[@saitomitsurugi18]

@@snakebitcat Exactly that. I feel that's the thing people are missing here. It's easy to blame Crow. Most would but look at what drove him there. Then look at who was supposed to be supporting so that he WOULDN'T make those decisions. Which is why I think Saladin stepped in as well. Or as Byf put it he realized that he was still learning. Plus the comms back this up to when he said roughly 'You don't know what you believe in.'

[@aliz221]

I LOVE THESE VIDS. I LOVE LONGER VIDS. I don't play destiny anymore but I keep up with everything by watching you and Evade. Evade talks some lore and a lot of cool game things, but you focus mainly on the lore and I love it. Keep it up MY NAME IS BYF ILY

[@perezo27]

I really hope next season is focused on the Eliksni and strengthening our bond with them. Hell, what if they claim Stasis, Mithrax going through what we basically went through Beyond Light. Stasis is just a tool, the darkness isn't the Witness. I mean, the Stasis wielding Eliksni already exist in the game, so seeing them as allies, similarly to the cabal here, would be great. Alternatively, since I can see how that would be kind of a jump for Mithrax to make, what if the conflict are the Cabal and the Eliksni learning to co-exist, how we did with both of them. Would love a Mithrax-Caiatl focused season, they'd be great foils, they are very good characters, and seeing two enemy races get along, I think, is something we haven't quite seen yet.

[@blakeyboy584]

Bruh there ain't no eliksni using stasis now. you are thinking of the Scorn

[@perezo27]

@@blakeyboy584 Not regular Eliksni, you are right, I meant the beafy guys in Europa, they are Eliksni.

[@Mikeyfer]

I dunno if this has been said before but the music in that last scene with Saladin and Caiatl is amazing, reprising the Iron Lords music was such an excellent choice, it really made me feel that this was Saladin's moment

[@misterdrprof]

"I was given a wish once, and I chose to fight a dragon" Did Saladin face an Ahamkara? Aka a wishdragon

[@KevlarCurt]

Probably yes

[@Awoken_Remmuz]

I'm a bit rusty but I think that happened around the great dragon hunt, aka that time the vanguard ordered the extinction of an entire species to protect the city.

[@bobnorris8520]

One of the last wish raid armors, dont remenber wich, have this lore, yes Saladin fought a dragon and killed it

[@Daredevil_MCZ]

Yes, it was stated in ( if I'm not wrong ) Destiny 1 lorebooks that he went into The Great Dragon Hunt to kill some ahamkaras, and he wished to the one his faced to turn itself into an classic dragon ( basically Smaug from TLoR ) and killed him

[@thatdarnskag5043]

Y’know, after reading some lore tabs here and there, I can kinda see where the Caiatl x Zavala ship memes come from. On a more serious note though, I feel like this storyline was as much a story of Saladin’s growth as Crow’s. I don’t think we misunderstood him, I think his stance, especially towards the Cabal, changed through the actions of Zavala, Crow, Caiatl, and the Guardian. I personally saw this more as a “even somebody who’s centuries old can still grow and learn from interactions with others” narrative. Also Saladin should have started working towards a better society along with the other Iron Lords much earlier instead of only going around and dispatching Warlords so that the girl would have had a much better upbringing in a safer and healthier environment, but what’s done is done. Venting over.

[@mitchellsnaw7263]

I'm unsure if this has been discussed, but how would Glint fit into all of this? Would he also be a victim of Crow's actions? Does that count as two lives instead of one in the eyes of Caiatl (assuming Saladin didn't step in)? How would that work? (added "be" on second sentence in editing)

[@samgreiner4725]

Glint wouldn't *have* to die He just couldn't ever rez crow

[@Myke1992]

Crows death would’ve been a final death. Saladin makes a remark about how crows final death wasn’t meant for today. Meaning capital would’ve killed crow and took glint hostage or crushed glint as well so crow can’t rez.

[@samgreiner4725]

@@Myke1992 they also have that light suppressing tech

[@Myke1992]

@@samgreiner4725 yeah but Caital would have to keep glint around to make sure nobody removed the suppression on him.

[@stinkyblood12345]

Crow " Do what you believe is right. I did." Caiatl "Very well then...Death by snu snu it is!" Crow "Wait what?!" Zavala "What?!" Saladin shoves crow "I will honor you."

[@Lightscribe225]

In the word of angry short man: This is a new feeling: pride in someone else. Unfortunately, it's overshadowed by all this UNYIELDING RAGE!

[@deathbot3602]

TFS Vegeta

[@Cafinebiased]

I'm honestly under the impression Savathun is just maneuvering everyone to band together so we actually stand a chance against the darkness in the end. But she knows everyone wouldn't straight up agree to an alliance so she has to come up with these elaborate scenarios to force everyone together XD

[@nivozi1694]

You might be right. This is like plan B for her.

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

I imagine that caital will A try to get saladin to hold a cabal version of the iron banner, although understandably less violent because cabal can actually die. B have a load of fun watching the iron banner where the guardians murder each other and studying our "tactics", probably to her detriment. Unless she watches me playing iron banner. Grenades are always the answer.

[@robofreak425]

C Integrate Cabal training with the Iron Banner with some new game modes under the condition that the Cabal are not killed in the process because of reason listed under A

[@rengokukyojurostatusdonut3472]

Cabal airsoft

[@ZeniteZero]

Great video as always, but a bit of feedback: it feels like Byf's voice is set much lower on the final mix, especially when compared to voices from cutscenes. I found myself increasing the volume when Byf is speaking, and lowering when cutscenes popped on.

[@1cy_C]

Hey byf quick question, what do u think what will happen to iron temple if Saladin going to be serving caital? Who gonna keep watch at it if Saladin can’t? Also do u think that there is a possibility we can see lady efriddet again?

[@sylokthedefiled]

he’s still going to be returning. if he’s away i would say that shiro would cover for him while he’s gone

[@jme-james]

Shiro-4 could keep up with it. There's just also us in general. All of us are the new generation of Iron Lords and Ladies. But I imagine Saladin would not let Caiatl keep him away from the Iron Temple.

[@TByrdartboy]

Considering Caital's revealed interest in IB i say she may actually make an established cabal base of operations should she get zavala to agree to it as well as respecting the legacy of the iron lords and not defacing the temple with her banners

[@Outlander19]

Besides Caitl has a thing for honouring the dead and lost and a respect for the customs of other species. I doubt she would keep him from anything as long as he did not do anything that directly goes against cabal interest

[@thesplawn]

This was a great video! I thoroughly enjoyed the content and added input from a lore perspective.

[@antoniohenderson6090]

"You understand? Don't you?" *Byfs team member powerloading Izangis with malicious intent* "Shame"

[@ritsukaseriyko1491]

I'm with Barb. I gave Crow the Red Card emote.

[@demoulius1529]

I think Saladin stepping in and offering his life is some genuinely awesome story development. Crow's actions, while stupid are pretty on point for his character as well. And when you consider he hasent been 'alive' if you will; for very long is also good story development. I kinda hate it and kinda love it at the same time. Damn you Bungo! Why you suddenly story good? D:

[@SilverSpectre90]

OK Serious note here Does this means that now Bracus Forge, i mean, Saladin is gone, IT MEANS LADY EFRIDEET WILL RETURN TO LEAD THE IRON BANNER!? THE SWEET VOICE BUT FIERCE TITAN LADY THAT THROWS PEOPLE INTO BATTLE AND WRECKS BARS WILL RETURN?

[@eu.stacio]

EFRIDEET isn’t returning, atleast not for this. Caital specifically said Saladin is free to keep the iron banner. However she will have some influence on it(they haven’t specified how and to what extent yet) EFRIDEET is still in the pacifist colony at the edge of the system last we heard

[@Light_Buster]

Actually no. Saladin, now Bracus Forge, will still return to the tower to run the Iron Banner. Caiatl is actually interested in the Guardian tradition and has some ideas for it, hinting at a rework for the Iron Banner.

[@inertia6261]

You should make audio books or upload these as podcast or audio books on Spotify I love the story of this game it so awesome you’ve are doing these been a fan for awhile! Thank you for the hard work Byf!

[@ST0NEFIELD]

This season has completely revitalized my belief in destiny

[@PolskaTheGrey]

Man that last correspondence between Saladin and Crow kinda hits you in the feels.

[@aidanfedorochko3728]

I don’t think it’s fair to say this is a case of moral relativism vs moral absolutism. It’s more a criticism of the idea of the moral line. As a person everyone has to draw the metaphorical line in the sand. Crow has done that, their are things he would do and things he would not do. The issue is more so that the vanguard is shifting its moral line, and while that is not inherently a bad thing, it can eventually lead to evil. The second you can justify immoral actions, you have to put a foot down and say “I will not cross the new line.” The problem is once you cross it the first time, you are more than likely going to cross it again. Do I think Crow is in the right? Ehhh I don’t know, because it’s not a easy question, but Crow is right that their needs to be a moral line. We can’t “do whatever is necessary to survive” if we Damned ourselves in the process. Evil actions and immoral behavior cannot simply be excuse as “for the greater good”. In the end, the Crow and The Vanguard need to put their foot down and state the line they will not cross. Zavala partially did this back in season of the lost after refusing to destroy the reef as The Cabal considered.

[@davidlanceescandor1310]

But then again consider the situation: we just traded a respected and hardened warrior of considering experience for a guy who not only fucked up because of a lapse in Judgement but also because his previous life involved taking another veteran Guardian away from the tower really hammers home the point that we lost someone due to uldren once again, even if it wasnt the intention. If the Guardians were mad about crow back then, imagine now, especially when his defense is trying to "save" light bearers who are unrepentantly attempting to wipe out Humanity. That's a flight risk that needs to be put down right there.

[@jaysonharvey3476]

@@davidlanceescandor1310 following that logic, our guardian is even worse than crow. Our actions in the forsaken campaign weren't sanctioned by the last city. In fact, it was feared that retaliating against the scorn would draw the last city into a conflict it wasn't prepared for since we were still recovering from the red war. But we went and did it anyway because we were mad our friend died. And as a result, the dreaming city was placed under a curse. And this was before we started using the darkness. Remember how popular that decision was?

[@ritsukaseriyko1491]

@@jaysonharvey3476 Please, as if the Scorn at that time could launch an attack against the City. I hate "what-ifs" that people try to make excuses for. Crow f-d up, badly.

[@jaysonharvey3476]

@@ritsukaseriyko1491 Nothing I said was a "what if" scenario. Zavala wouldn't approve a mission to avenge Cayde because he feared it would put the last city at risk. It's why Ikora got mad at him. Us going after Uldren was something we did independent of the last city. This would eventually lead to us going after Riven in the raid once we learned of her role in Cayde's death. Are actions during said raid caused a curse to be placed on the dreaming city. There's no "what if" involved here. We did that.

[@davidlanceescandor1310]

@@jaysonharvey3476 We also had an enemy who was killing Awoken and Eliskni alike in droves. Without any unneccesary targets being killed. Crow killed 3 Hive and a Psion. So we have the better high ground than Crow, because at least we aimed down the sights rather than hip fire wildly like Crow did.

[@eraserhead6198]

What I love about this story line is that it shows just how delicate and complex diplomacy can be. It’s not as simple as “We must be nice to these people because it’s the right thing to do”. Unfortunately, it just doesn’t work like that in the real world and the heart can’t always lead before the brain. Saladin and Zavala have made their mistakes sure but they are more than capable through their experience to make those hard calls. Crow lead with his heart and because of that he made a critical error. One that could completely shatter any hope we had of an alliance with the Cabal because Caital will very likely be furious over this. Saladins line at the end was chilling “I hope the Vanguard can survive your conscience” shows just how dire this situation is and that Crow was not even close to ready to assume the role of Hunter Vanguard like we had all hoped. He’s not ready to make the hard choices, he’s not ready to understand that the needs of many sometimes have to outweigh the needs of a few. If anything, this made even us the player begin to question Crow.

[@JoakimFigge]

Never really liked Crows character, nothing about him interests me, but this time he managed to stir emotions within me, maybe I'm warming up to him.. I've also never seen Saladin as a warmonger, not in any season 🤔

[@derpdadouch3654]

I'm talking as my guardian. I've never liked crow either. This makes even harder to. The man's a traitor. He took pity on the hive. Lucent or not. Memories or without. They're still experimenting on guardians. They're still treating us like toys. They don't deserve pity or mercy. They deserve oblivion.

[@neekumikuvt328]

When Crow laughs when Caiatl says Indeed I was laughing too. When Saladin looked at him I legit stopped laughing too

[@jme-james]

Alright, can agree now that Saladin was objectively right on this now or are we still trying to paint him as a psychopathic, homicidal maniac? What crow did regardless of his self appointed guilt was wrong. And his philosophy will and has gotten innocent people hurt.

[@magosofmars8410]

Its good to see Saladin get a character arc from wanting to destroy caitls cabal to accepting the need to work together for a greater good and now understanding that the cabal have honour of their own and are worthy allies and as a bonus with Saladin setting up a new iron banner we may get some exclusive cabal maps

[@RatOrchestra]

Some of you need to seek professional help

[@stefanvangool3148]

the second gigachad of the beginning of the Witch Queen next to Rhulk. I was breathtaken to witness Saladin's choice and final words to Zavala and Crow. much respect for the old Iron Lord

[@whyuhatan]

Throughout the last couple of seasons I was steadily starting to like Crow. What happened yesterday tossed all those feelings of Goodwill out the window for me. I don't think there's any word in the English language to describe how stupid he was Hey great big complex machine plugged into the back of someone's head I'm just going to flip this switch here what could possibly go wrong? FFS man wait till the psion gets up to use the crapper then when it leaves the room go over and turn the thing off Did glint forget to revive your common sense when he raised you!?

[@vannak139]

That Izanagi shot made me literally lol @17:42

[@Flustershy]

While I do really like this seasons story, I still absolutely *HATE* how crow compares himself to the hive. The Hive have killed trillions of creatures for many millions of years or maybe longer, they have destroyed planets, extinguished races into oblivion making their names be lost to time and probably done a fair bit of needless suffering with their rituals to other races. Then we have Crow/Uldren, who killed some awoken and 1 cringelord robot and made the scorn... and he's comparing how both him and the hive are monsters born under light. That is the same shit if a school shooter compared himself to hitler or stalin because he is a guy, has black hair, and a moustache. So yeah no matter what angle you try to spin this, crows reasoning is fucking shit bro. (Also also, if the lucent hive in psisorium ever got out, the remaining hive would laugh at their softcore mind rake session VS the shit hive rituals do)

[@Sero4]

You're talking as if Uldren wasn't the one responsible for the curse of the Dreaming City and the creation of the Scorn, I don't think that's just "killing some awoken and Cayde"

[@xYunoGasai]

I love how crow is basically our guardian's fan