Destiny 2 Lore - If Eris becomes powerful enough, THIS is how she might defeat Xivu Arath!

Thanks to Keeps for sponsoring - Head to keeps.com/byf to get a special offer for hair loss treatment. Destiny 2's Lore and Story from the Season of the Witch seems to put Eris Morn in an impossible position of facing off against Xivu Arath. The War God's power is great, but Eris Morn as the god of Vengeance might be uniquely placed to counter Xivu Arath, who is seeking to avenge her Brother's death. As long as Eris becomes strong enough, she may be able to trap the Hive God of War!
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[@MynameisByf]

Head to keeps.com/byf to get a special offer for hair loss treatment.

[@CrabDaddySupreme]

Eris already has a throne world. It's the new room in the helm.

[@donalddavis303]

If savathun still had a worm then the deception of eris morn could be a great tithe as well

[@jr8772]

Plot twist: new sponsor for hair removal treatment.

[@chipsawdust5816]

I'm 65 and never lost my hair. Thanks Dad :)

[@JoeDissolv0]

HEAD.... to the link. I see what you did there.

[@moonlitmortician6694]

I always thought the whole vengeance thing was a sort of subversion of the sword logic. The logic states that the dead deserved to die and no tears should be shed for them. But vengeance is the exact opposite of that, it’s mourning someone so much you’re willing to kill for them. So by killing Eris in vengeance, Xivu is proving the sword logic is a lie or at least her faith in it is weak.

[@dougcarey2233]

Love it. This is probably way too introspective for the team at Bungie these days though.

[@HobbieJ]

Now this right here is excellent.

[@omni_tron]

Sword logic isn't logical at all. Savathun figured that out long ago.

[@BgChf-dg5lv]

Actually I think it’s using the sword logic to its T. You kill to prove your worth. The method is up to you. Oryx learned to defeat his enemies, Savathun tricked hers to kill, Xivu Arath would wage war to destroy and ERIS will seek vengeance and claim vengeance from her enemies to empower herself. It’s like when superheroes start playing by the bad guys’ rules and they cry fowl.

[@lynnford1320]

"What is Vengeance but Love Persevering?"

[@garrettviewegh9028]

Eris’ voice actress is really killing it this season. You can really feel/hear the cold hatred in Eris’ voice as she describes the process in how Xivu will die.

[@SirYeesalotThe3rdlordOfMemes]

I just hope we get something cool for sweeping the Hive pantheon, like maybe our own throne world or something

[@rushmeme1166]

Maybe finally the trophy hall back?

[@kinologan5074]

Throne world with all the exotics that we have with space for those we can get

[@RicardoSilva7567]

Well we saw our own grave in the sundail season when we rescue Saint maybe the guardian dies, goes to the throne world and cames back in the final shape?

[@mbashasyed]

Prolly an Emblem

[@Test-hb6sd]

That could be the anthiatem for the seasonal story

[@Dingosilver57]

Each time Eris' aspect is listed, I'm reminded of what Oryx's first words to the guardian were. "At last. I will have vengeance!"

[@mikethehunter5212]

Technically, he first spoke to us on Phobos. Can't recall what he said. I just remember "Fingertips on the surface of my mind!"

[@DarkDisc1]

That was eris saying that. Oryx was poking her brain...kind of

[@mikethehunter5212]

@@DarkDisc1 I know...I was being funny...haha.

[@Rjptz]

@@mikethehunter5212he said “light, give your will to me”!

[@mikethehunter5212]

@@Rjptz That's it. Thank you.

[@MetalChannel393]

My best guess for Eris to get a huge boost is power is for if we manage to destroy the leviathan eater and claim vengeance for the leviathan,the amonite, hell maybe even torobatl

[@kmhowells2]

This is my thinking too. It’s not just Eris or humanity’s vengeance, it’s every race they’ve destroyed or crippled. I could see the Cabal and Fallen even tithing to Eris to defeat Xivu.

[@darkspiro6467]

the leviathan eater could also be a trap The Exo Stranger did say Eris in the dark timeline was corrupted by power

[@MetalChannel393]

@@darkspiro6467 You could be right,but I’m pretty sure eris has more to care about in this timeline people she cares about,the peace she was thinking about,and the myriad of people who care about her as well

[@darkspiro6467]

@@MetalChannel393 a valid point

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

Thats whta Xivu wants. Overdosing Eris on power. Elsie knows she went mad in the DT by power. Here Eris is managing, but a sudden push could be too much for her

[@The5lacker]

The fact that Eris has essentially weaponized the self-destructive Hypocrisy of the Sword Logic and Hive Gods is brilliant. That one act of Heresy from Oryx back when he decided to act in revenge for the death of his son, despite the Sword Logic being *extremely* clear about how much you should mourn the dead (Hint: It's a whole number that's less than 1), metastasizing into a full-on weaponized Logical Fallacy: To mantle one's self in the Sword Logic as the aspect of Vengeance, despite the mere act or desire of Vengeance being antithetical to the Sword Logic, and undo War itself.

[@darthcerebus]

Plus it completely undoes every possible thing Xivu can even do, and Eris likely knows this. She won't fight because it'll empower Xivu, but Xivu can't attack because the mere action of doing it will empower Eris and undo her own power because of the Sword Logic and how exclusively she relies on it. It's essentially what Rasputin sacrificed himself for (despite the clear concept of just disconnecting Warsat control from him while saving the personality matrix instead of erasing everything period), Xivu can't absue the power of warsats used against anyone, total stalemate, which would just eliminate her power on top of every other potential.

[@Draggobuttboi]

That whole rasputin thing annoyed me as touching as it was. from what I recall he's only ever done one thing in game that actually demonstrates his immense power which was the destruction of the almighty. Every time he popped up he'd either stay around for a season then be taken out or stay in the background not actually doing much. It's like bungie wrote a really cool and powerful character but didn't know how to write him into the rest of the ongoing story so just threw their hands up and killed him off.

[@The5lacker]

@@Draggobuttboi I mean that's largely a problem with how things got setup back in the day. Someone thought it would be a cool idea to have some ancient, untrustworthy artificial intelligence as a background character, and too late did anyone realize that the instant he became an ally he'd be able to solve half of the problems in the entire story by himself. Plus there've been, like, two entire story-team restructurings over the last decade, so almost no one making decisions now were making those decisions a decade ago. I don't blame them for wanting to just kinda wash their hands of Rasputin in general, he's a great character but he looms so large over the story. The fact they couldn't just sac the warsat network and just have Rasputin as, like, an advisor-bot with no actual power is kinda bullshit though.

[@ogLenas]

Byf trolling his blueberries at 13:30 by suppressing the bonus Shrieker boss just before they could kill it and then it disappears. Great stuff.

[@slorbonmyknorb777]

Byf IS the blueberry for doing that

[@TimothyMark7]

im really hoping eris gets bigger because in lore and the menu art she towers everybody being easily 7.5ft or so in size

[@andy.jehoshaphat]

I don't think the art is foreshadowing anything.

[@HouseOfHuzzah]

​@@andy.jehoshaphatOtherwise Xivu is Godzilla sized. Even the season pass background has her pretty normal size.

[@Butter_Warrior99]

Most likely an artistic metaphor. Then again, Oryx became family size in the raid.

[@TimothyMark7]

@@Butter_Warrior99 same with savvy, she was assumed human sized then became 25ft tall

[@TimothyMark7]

@@HouseOfHuzzah said can be said on savvy yet shes 25ft in height

[@CloneMalone]

It's actually really strange hearing Xivu talk about Oryx like a loved sibling since so far she's been the only member of the Osmium family to actually do that. Savathun may have more relatable emotions than those of Oryx or Crota, but she didn't even love her family through the Sword Logic. Even Oryx, who came to Sol in vengeance of his son still didn't go about it the same way as Xivu is. He would yell things like "For Crota!" as if this was not out of anger, but almost as if this was a conquest to face the champions that managed to best his son.

[@arektllama3767]

Assuming that Xivu is successfully taken care of and Savathun returns, wouldn’t warring on the witness then also empower eris? There’s so many examples listed in the video where eris will be embodying vengeance for a variety of characters but I think Savathun should be included in that list. After all, she is the only hive god to discover the truth of what the witness did in creating the hive and is the only one to turn away from the sword logic as a result. I suspect this is all one big scheme by Savathun to create the very weapon she needs to finally eliminate the witness. By ascending eris into godhood in the name of vengeance, Savathun is creating the strongest ally she could possibly have for seeking her own vengeance against the witness (Likely a temporary Ally). That is, the vengeance she is attempting to deliver in the name of the krill.

[@kylekrausbauer5866]

Spot on!

[@My0ldFr13nd]

I wonder if Savathûn will want peace after we take out the Witness

[@auriel1353]

​@@My0ldFr13nd probably....well I hope so I really like Savathûn so yeah it would be nice to have her in our team. and Bungie said that the hive won't become our ally right now cuz they have a lot forgive. so I think in one of season of lightfall we will have some redemption arc for the hive to me this redemption arc as started this season through Savathûn "help" even if it's a trick. but she one helping us to take Xivu down and two she will explain us how to go after the witness

[@mozen593]

I just made a comment about this but pointed at the witness. Basically I was questioning if the witnesses pursuit of the traveller could be seen as vengeance as well and thus also empower Eris.

[@auriel1353]

@@mozen593 I think she can use it as vengeance since it's because of the witness if the hive exists and it because of him the collapse happened. like it will be a vengeance for the humanity and every civilization that the witness wipe and enslave

[@dragonking1097]

In a crazy way. Regarding Rasputin and the Warsats. Xivu’Arath can “thank” Eramis. We removed the deadly weapon which was a tactic Xivu never expected. But we also can’t forget it was also Eramis who forced our hand. Her and her vendetta which has caused her more problems than she’ll ever realize. Good thing for her, Eris is sort of bait. Eramis may have helped Mithrax, and we thank her with some clemency and release. But for her sake, it’s best she not return near us. Especially since Ana will not be happy to see her, nor as hospitable as Mithrax.

[@nivalack9964]

I wonder if we'll see others of the hive will join Eris's brood, like how Kelgorath switched from Savathün's to Xivu's.

[@derya2099]

I think Savathun saying "The Taken King will rise again" in Altar of Reflection is gonna get a whole new meaning this season

[@ET-Gamer]

I just really hope Eris doesn’t turn evil and we have to kill her. I really like her and there aren’t many characters left I like in Destiny’s universe.

[@GusJenkinsElite]

You must not like very many of the characters then

[@TheBluntist619]

She's gone through too much, I don't think the writers will do that

[@syerzec]

I think that the whole season is another Savathun's trick. To kill Xivu, Eris has to be sacrificed, to serve Savathun's power to succeed.

[@submachinegun5737]

Eris dying would be reversible, because remember what happens in the book of sorrows, oryx conjures back savathun and xivu from final deaths with trickery and war. Eris would be conjured back either by the act of xivu killing her as revenge for oryx, or by some other strong act of vengeance

[@garrettviewegh9028]

@@submachinegun5737Eris could also be conjured back by us taking revenge on Xivu by killing her, or her greatest general: the Levithin Eater. Ikora, Crow, Mara, Saint, many of us and our allies would partake in a revenge-fueled campaign of slaughter against the Hive. After the dust settles from this, and we’ve purged Xivu’s brood from the living, as the Iron Lords purged the Warlord’s, Eris could then be conjured back by our revenge-fueled slaughter. Eris could then, be strong enough to kill Xivu.

[@TheCrayzeeMan]

Technically what Eris did is a trick, by subverting the Sword Logic in the way that she did On the other hand, Savvy wants vengeance against the Witness Eris wins no matter how you slice it

[@PlatinumAssassin]

The Vengeance power boost from Xivu striking down Eris is def something I feel will likely happen. In addition to this, while no longer a "Hive God" in the traditional sense Im curious if the level of scheme involved with this entire set up from beyond the grave in any way would empower Savathun. She doesn't have a worm to tithe too any longer but I am unsure if that disqualifies her from access to being the embodiment of trickery and the power that comes with it.

[@GamingStar1995]

Parting with her worm and being born in the light, Savathun cannot receive any more power from trickery. The terms of trickery for her worm was to deceive and lie in order to feed her worm so she gets more power, but to also live before it eats at her. Now that she has the light, she simply utilizes trickery as a means of getting her way. In other words, Savathun has parted with the sword logic, and has found a way to escape death. Which is in the light. "If we can find a way to cheat death, and hide it from our enemies, we will be much harder to defeat" - Oryx. Just like the guardians pocketing ghosts, which is our cheat code for immortality, Savathun has found that as well. And now that she has the light, she has yet to do many things with it.

[@coldcremator6206]

@@GamingStar1995 Does that mean Eris is feeding a Worm to become a Hive God? There were a bunch of Worms around the ritual site and there's a Worm fragment in the Staff that makes the Guardian an Acolyte, but I didn't see her bond with a particular Worm at all and yet she still can become a Hive God. Considering the Worms can talk, Eris having a Worm would probably be a relevant plot point if she indeed did have one since she'd have to argue with the equivalent of a ravenous inner demon.

[@GamingStar1995]

She did not bond with a worm the same way the hive are. The hive have worms inside of them. Eris used hive magic to link herself to a hive worm. The worms are a link to the sword logic and the powers and ideals that are granted by said logic. It would be unbearable to believe that Eris could insert a hive worm into her body, even in her temporary hive form. As for Eris, becoming a god, she did not become one in a traditional sense. She claimed tithes from our slaying of Oryx. Which made her heir in the Hive's eyes. The only thing that we didnt claim from oryx was his throne and the power to take. The hive show love and strength by killing. Which also feeds their worms. Slaying Oryx, fulfilled one of the "rules" and the slayer of Oryx would be seen as a Threat, but if we were Hive, we would be seen as a God. Eris did not slay oryx, but she claimed the fragment of his sword which is evidence to the hive that she is one of them, following that same logic.

[@Daggerswor]

Ngl the “they know that I am vengeance, and they summon me back with vengeance” has to be one of my favourite lines due to how deep it plays into hive lore and how it was delivered. My one fear is if Eris will be able to come back from that moment, of true power.

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

Theres a slight problem with the plan right now and that is... How chill Xivu is right now. Keep in mind Eris becoming the god if vengeance is to avenge all the fallen guardians but also since Xivu attacking us is done out of hatred and vengeance. As soon as she noticed Eris was that type of hive god, she immediately flipped her character and now sends us her warriors to die by our hands not out of vengeance bit out of love. She is completely obsessed with Eris as an adopted sister, and hopes she gives into her Hive side. Which we know is a possibility because Eris says she feels the temptation growing, Elsie freaked out, and week after week Ikoras concern irritates her more. At this point Eris conceeded that fighting war is impossible but she should still get tribute "to stall until we find What else to do". Shes addicted to the tithes already. Xivu is a strategist, and knows how to turn one's strength into weakness. She seeks to turn Eris against us by overloading her with tribute and breaking her human mind with the power. To do that, she could offer us a leviathan eater in a silver plate for us to kill in Eris name. And we would do so without realizing

[@GamingStar1995]

Eris Refused that love. Eris pointed out that because Xivu is noticing Eris becoming that which is Vengeance, She doesn't want to go to war with Vengeance. Eris knows that she has Xivu's attention, and her constant communication is a sign that the plan should not be altered, but kept on a straight narrow. She wanted to kill Eris and vice versa forever in the name of love should they fight (thats how hive love each other). After Eris refused that offer, Then Xivu Became irritated, and decided to send he mightiest champions (the leviathan) to wipe us all out before Eris claims any more powerful tithes.

[@mikael100100]

i believe you are SEVERELY underestimating the will and the type of character that Eris is this would be the lamest, shittiest writing still for this amazing character. with everything Eris went through, a small drug addiction is nothing more than a bug to squash.

[@miniverse2002]

We also have to take into account that this is ultimately Savathun's plan. She knows her sister well and she knows she would do this. We do not know the specifics but it's very possible Eris is only meant to be bait to draw in Xivu to the tower.

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

@@mikael100100 at the end of the day Its Bungie's game meaning they alone decide wether Eris is strong enough to resist the corruption or if her dipping into the Evil side would be a good plot point. Right now the story could go either way depending on what they already recorded

[@UltraNerdyGamer]

While Eris may still get corrupted by the tithes, it's still not fully in Xivu's favor. She may claim she sends us warriors out of "love" or that she attacks us in the name of war as she always has, but she's pretty clearly lying to herself to save face. Between what Immaru has showed us and the audio logs from Ghosts of the Deep, Xivu is STILL hurting after Oryx's death. She never got over it. Deep in her core she knows she's doing this out of vengeance and is trying to deny that fact. The likely best case scenario for her is that she dies fighting Eris and Eris taking up the mantle of Hive God fully, continuing the practice of the sword logic after she has passed.

[@STORMCASTCreeper]

I have to agree, and not only this, i would like to point out that Eris' maneuvering of Xivu will constitute a massive amount of trickery, thus also tithing to Savathun, just as Oryx did with the ammonites

[@xxxCiscoKiDxxx]

I love this idea. The only problem is one you stated in this video. This act of deception against Xivu would empower Savathun which may be her play against Eris. Can't wait for the rest of the story!

[@TheDragonman55]

What was Oryx the hive god of? Savathun has lies and trickery, Xivu Arath has war, and Eris has vengeance. What would Oryx be "conjured back" by?

[@rushmeme1166]

Exploration, knowledge, true logic qnd theory,by empowering eris we would be supporting his desire for the truth of the world through sword logic.

[@rushmeme1166]

@TheDragonman55 I am so sorry for ratio-ing you, this is ver unintentional

[@kyleespinoza7201]

This is honestly where i thought this season was going, Eris being the Hive God of Vengeance specifically seems like the perfect trap for Xivu Arath. I dont understand how people are so quick to dismiss this either, especially like riskrunner in these comments, because this is as much an ontological trap as the Rasputin/Warsat was for us *and* we know that Xivu desires Vengeance from the radio messages. Thats a non debatable fact at this point.

[@michaelleventeris644]

Here's a theory. If this trap works for Eris then this a work of trickery. A work of trickery this great could have the potential to tithe towards Savathun instead of Eris, like how Eris thinks Xivus tithe would tithe to Eris. This could give Savathun immense power, perhaps to self ressurect without Immaru which is a way to guarantee that she does return.

[@Audiotrocious]

“Corporate wants you to find the difference between these two pictures.” Elsie Bray: They are the same.

[@novemberbravo6194]

God damn man, this is one your best written videos outside of the big movie projects. The prose in the closing moments especially, absolutely delightful to experience. As always, thank you so much for taking the time and effort to put these videos together for our benefit. As we progress ever closer to the Final Shape, keep em coming!

[@pillcosby9854]

after what exo stranger said to ikora i started to notice the way eris is starting to talk and the things shes saying is really making me think were gonna get a villian eris arc and we and hopefully drifter are gonna have to pull her back from the brink of corruption

[@BgChf-dg5lv]

Such a beautiful trap! I think it’ll go exactly as you stated! See how she likes a lose/lose situation and tries to escape it! I can’t wait!

[@viable3589]

My friend and I were talking about the season, and he was telling me that he thinks that Xivu will be defeated but not killed this season, and disappear until the Hive episode foe The Final Shape, Heresy.

[@JustAMagicDuck]

Sometimes the KZbin ads timing is insane. Todays gem: Byf: Death is not the end for the Hive and with enough tribute Eris Morn would be able to make a grand throne world indeed. And as Eris said to the Drifter… Ad: 75 CENT BONELESS WINGS!

[@GREGG2099]

@ 22:34 I could almost hear someone say "...and even you, Kakarot." 😂

[@sanchansama9356]

this throughline in the story occurred to Me this Week & I was Sooooooooo HAPPY with it's Organic Synergy, was debating whether or not I should bring it up with Your Community, Sooooooooo HAPPY You realize this TOO 🤟🏽🤟🏽💯💯

[@grzetim]

What a great theory! Reminds me of a Star Wars quote; "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.".

[@smilinrylan3169]

So I think I see how Eris, Oryx, and Xivu see the sword logic. Immaru sees it as nothing more than life's general pattern. Ikora sees it as searching just for something till you find something you have to either die or become stronger, like a task. I don't think Savathuun fully understands it but she understands it enough to fight it. As where Eris, Oryx, and Xivu see it as a life long ritual and need not just to kill but morally to make everything God so there are no mortals. Everything would survive for Eternity in perfection. They see it as life, not taking, but creating new life, better life, as the weak would not have to exist. It's not that they hate them entirely, but they feel responsible to take that life so it doesn't have to suffer, and put it into something else. Now while Eris isn't seeking to go down that path, she understands it, and wishes to break that, hence why Xivu thinks she's holding say, an circle, but in real it's a cylinder.

[@mitrhandir2346]

The only problem here is that this could all be considered a plot, one for revenge but a plot at the end of the day, if Eris is conjured through revenge and this revenge is possible through the use of a plot, we are conjuring revenge through savatun's domain. , which indicates that much of eris's power would also go to savatun possibly resurrecting savatun and fulfilling our part of the "deal"

[@lynnford1320]

Problem with that Chief is that Savathun relinquished her "domain" when she traded her worm for the Light. She no longer receives Tithes nor gains sustenance from deception. Now she manipulates because she's just That Bitch.

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

Savathun can resurrect any moment Immaru wants to, she just wants to be rezzed after we deal with her so she doesnt have to, or another plot

[@The5lacker]

Remember, Savathun isn't tied to the same Logic as before. WIth her worm removed and her brood empowered by the light, the previous rules of the Sword Logic no longer apply to her. There isn't any evidence she's directly empowered by Imbaru anymore, and also we already know how to revive her: Put her ghost next to her.

[@mitrhandir2346]

@@The5lacker Thanks for the reminder, I hadn't taken that into account.

[@manuelpineiro2489]

I absolutely love a byf video that makes your hair stand up on end and gives you the chills like this one did. The last minute of this video totally shook me to my core.

[@progenitor_amborella]

Also keep in mind Xivu’s dialogue from Ghosts of The Deep. Really ties into that Week 2 recording.

[@gentleman_waffle]

Always a good day when Byf drops a video

[@kylekrausbauer5866]

Ikora: "Eris... what is your plan for defeating Xivu Arath, the god of War?" Eris: "......(I'm batman)!"

[@MasonSherwoods]

I think this is an amazing idea from a writing standpoint. And the last thing you said about Savathun playing a dangerous game made me think that Xivu striking down Eris would be one of the greatest deceptions she would allow to happen to her sister as well. Which unless I am mistaken means that the action is tithing two things? Greatest act of vengence spurned on by a terrible allowance of self deception.

[@tenortime3355]

That last poetic phrasing of all of eris' defeated enemies before signing off was beautiful, but at the same time I couldn't help but laugh at the presentation. Felt like I was watching an "in remembrance of those we lost" slideshow 😂

[@TheTakenTater]

Anyone thought about the witness seeking the final shape and attacking the traveler is an act of vengeance? It would also mean the witness would be tithing to Erie as well.

[@SwiftGundam]

Speaking of Throne Worlds, we know that numbers is not the only factor in the making of one. Killing a strong and accomplished adversary can be equal to killing scores. Hiraks proves this true with his Throne World.

[@ShakaarGaleed]

The whole thing with the Hive Gods feeding on whatever their pantheon encompasses (Savathun-lies, Xivu-war, Oryx-understanding) reminds me of an online roleplay character I once created and used as the BBEG for the story my friends and I were crafting. His name was Ludious, and I did an in-character video about him and just how evil he was on my channel. Basically, he was an astral entity that fed on emotion, particularly negative emotion that he had grown quite competent at evoking. Even fighting against him with pure "righteous fury" would empower him. The only way to fight him without giving him the very power he needed to defend himself from you is to do so with absolutely zero intent. Not to defend (as this is fear for one's safety or life), not to avenge (self-explanatory), not to kill (again, duh). He was eventually defeated by a character named Kokukai (my online name), though Kai also died in the attempt.

[@Lewisman-wn6zk]

Man. I legit got chills when you listed the name of the dead hive and Eris' victory over them afterwards. Beautiful

[@ScumDogMF]

That's quite the reversal. Using vengeance, it puts xivu in a position to tithe and empower eris similar to how we tithe to xivu. All eris needs to do is stoke those flames.

[@MagatsuDiarahan]

I really do wonder if Sav was planning for all of this. Immaru may have only been told enough information to keep the Guardians and the Vanguard on the path Sav laid down, but just enough to get them in the right direction, leaving the destination up in the air. It could be the reason why he genuinely sounded confused by Eris's actions. Perhaps a scenario of (not to quote the Tame Impala) "the less you know, the better." If Immaru knew too much of Sav's plan, he would most certainly screw it up given his personality as well as the incredible distrust between the Hive and Vanguard/Guardians. He would know more than he lets on, maybe sewing even more doubt and suspicion. He was given just enough to answer the basics, fill in some gaps, etc.. Sav would have the "true" answers.

[@xYunoGasai]

Also pretty interesting the first time xivu arath invaded the spire she was trying so hard to see that her sister still believes in the sword logic like it made her so happy that savathun had this

[@disastrousdwarf]

Wait if Oryx brought back Xivu and Savathun previously through great acts linked to them then perhaps the attempt last season to "Take" Asha was also an attempt to bring Oryx back.

[@nicholasschoonbeck6866]

This season, plus that trap Xivu tried to use, has been the first time I've felt like the word God actually means God, as in people do things & it somehow creates an effect for a being. Previously, gods in Destiny often just sounded like biggest boss.

[@brymazz1]

Eris will challenge her to Mortal Kombat.

[@Wormy_fren]

Eris is about to infinite Xivu isn't she?

[@PsalmLab]

Knowing Xivu, I have a feeling she's going to high-tail it! And it's entirely possibly, that Savathun is intentionally pitting them both against one another. For reasons yet to be revealed 👀

[@johngancarcik5682]

Xivu: i want revenge Eris: im about to do whats called a progamer move

[@RuiNDieM1988]

I keyed into this the moment Xivu Arath swore revenge. I saw the trap coming a mile away. Cant wait to see it spring

[@MrTmm97]

Xivu’s voice is probably the first voice Bungie has cast that I actively dislike. Although I think it’s more the synth/mix they are applying to her voice that makes it unpleasant. Take it in comparison to Savathun’s. Her voice is clear, strong, and keen. Whereas Xivu’s is like a constrant low-grade screaming with a bunch of background added under it that makes it sound unpleasant. That’s the only way I can think to describe it. Does anyone else feel that way or is it just me?

[@chads9452]

That would be awesome if eris stops xivu arath because xivu wants vengeance

[@deloimoiguardian3557]

I believe it is as you have said. Everything that Eris has gone through has led her to this moment. As the Hive god of Vengeance, she is the counter to the Xivu Arath and since the fall of Crota and his brood that has fallen, Oryx and his brood that fell, and Savathun fell at the hands of the Guardian, has in one way or another been a tithe to Eris. The Hive know Eris as vengeance and if Xivu desires revenge it will empower Eris even more. As for Savathun, this could have been part of her scheme all along, knowing that Eris would become the god of Vengeance and the one capable of taking down Xivu. However, I would not drop my guard, because once Xivu is dealt with, Savathun has a scheme at the ready. For example, when the guardian and the Vanguard go though the portal in, I wonder what Savathun will do.

[@Sweetace2211]

"And as Eris herself said to the Drifter" *Ad starts* "KA.... ME.... HA.... ME......... HAAAAAAAAA"

[@SenorConsuela]

I do love the idea that Eris has this galaxy brain move, to beat Xivu in her own game with her own tactics. But the only winner really here is Savathun. Agan Eris after all palys a TRICK on Xivu, so if Eris does succeed, Savathun will be more powerful then ever before.

[@wildzentiger4031]

By tricking Xivu Arath into this trap, Eris is also empowering Savathun, perhaps with a similar scale tithe, meaning that, upon resurrection, Savathun will be in a more powerful position, perhaps the most powerful she has ever been, given the twofold trick of Xivu to Eris, and Eris to Savathun.

[@dudebruh8534]

Savathun doesn't get tithes from trickery and deceit anymore, as she's getting power from the light and not a hive worm. Why do you and like 80% of the comments not remember this?

[@kristophershephard7359]

What I've been saying all along. With the war on the Ecumene Oryx returned after defeating Akka and used an act of war to bring back Xivu and an act of cunning to bring back Savathun. Xivu committing an act of vengeance should by the lore bring her back. Is Savathun still using this throne world? 🤔 Drifter what will you do with all these motes? Would redecorating Savathuns throne world make us shiver?

[@donnettaandpeggy-stmaryoft2229]

I got chills at the end naming the names of the dead and soon to die

[@thedankpapyrus4779]

I don’t know why but I love the fact that for most of the season of the witch videos byf (or who I assume is byf) has been using stasis and for some reason it’s funny to me that it just so happens to be that the important characters in this season are Eris, Xivu, Savathun, Ikora, and Elsie/the stranger since in a lore tab she raged at ikora for letting eris become a temporary hive god

[@SnyperMK2000JclL]

Now that you mention it... yeah i can totally see Eris as the Hive God of Vengence laying a double edged trap against Xivu like she did against us with Rasputin... Xivu fighting against Eris to avenge her Brother Oryx would TOTALLY tithe to Eris much like using the warsats would have tithed to Xivu... its a perfect mantle to take up as a way to use the sword logic against Xivu and the Hive as a whole.

[@iamcrash5525]

What a trap. Xivu declared she wants vengeance against Eris for killing Oryx. Xivu kills Eris for vengeance, Eris gets a tithe bigger than you could dream. Xivu doesn't kill Eris, her worm consumes her. There's no escaping this. I love it.

[@leadergo]

My thoughts exactly! Though I am curious what will happen to Eris once Xivu is destroyed, since vengeance has been dealt. If she ends up surviving, will she remain a hive God of vengeance? I don't recall if Eris has a worm to feed or not, so in theory she wouldn't need to accept any more tithes as her logic was finally proved.

[@gaiofattos2]

There's a third partner in that story and may be Savathun tricking Eris, Xivu and us in her plan.

[@smilinrylan3169]

Xivu playing 4 D chess, Eris waiting for Xivu to look up at the gun she's about to boofed by.

[@SecondTomahawk]

Byf that outro speech was gold. But you missed the opportunity to nail it home with an Aiat 😂

[@Ncmagic97]

I've missed these kinds of predictions/theories from you Byf, really enjoyed this video

[@adamlandry1786]

There’s a rotating line in Savathun’s Spire. An exchange between Eris and Immaru about throne worlds. Immaru has been taunting us like a dealer who holds all the cards, or thinks he does. His arrogance is the most interesting thread as he lays his bread crumbs in front of us. The lines from Immaru is “Who died and made you an expert on throne worlds?” To which Eris simply replies, “Crota.” This exchange gave me chills upon hearing it the first time. Is she trying to form her own throne world? She been in closer contact with Mara Sov recently then we have every seen before. Does that put Eris closer to the edge of losing her humanity than we think?

[@justsomerandomguy6562]

That Hive family tree part at the end made me realize just how many notable Hive bosses we've had in the past ten years

[@GamingStar1995]

Tithes of war that was supposed to be for Xivu from the guardians will become tithes of vengeance which will go to Eris, if claimed. Xivu will become weaker because we will kill far greater and stronger enemies than Xivu's Army can to feed her hunger and her power. Eris will kill her the same way Oryx, or Savathun can, by exploiting her weaknesses in the Sword Logic. Xivu "might" not be able to be resurrected because once Eris destroys her Hive form (no sure if thats possible without harming herself), the hive witches cannot summon the god of war in the name of vengeance. Vengeance which is Eris's Hive form. The Hive are in Awe of Eris because above all things, Vengeance is more sought after than War, but War will still be the cause of Vengeance. War is led by vengeance. Vengeance is achieved by war. When War ends, Vengeance will rise. When Vengeance is achieved, War is soon to follow. Eris aims to break the infinite loop. Correct me if i'm wrong but Eris' dialogue helps me believe that she has found a loophole in the sword logic. Every single hive expansion we've had, Eris finds a way to counter the hive. I'm very sure that she has found a way to Get rid of Xivu Arath Permanently, Her hive form (to resist corruption of vengeance), and maybe found a way to avoid the trickery of Savathun IF we revive her for the information we seek. I'm also wondering if Savathun LET us kill her instead of actually trying to go through with her own plans to take the traveler. It all seemed too easy, and her dialogue definitely shows that it was an expected outcome for us to kill her.

[@miguelflores2455]

Byf, do you think it's possible that the scattered Hive broods (Hidden Swarm, Spawn of Crota, Lucent Hive, Wrathborn of Xivu Arath, etc.) if unlikely, may soon begin to tithe to Eris at some point? She did say that the Hive have been awestruck and that she is Vengence and that she has conjured back with Vengence, so do you think its possible?

[@bepisaxe4464]

The funniest part of all of this, is that I feel that at the end of the day, Eris' biggest source of Tribute may end up being Xivu Arath herself. Vengence will bear tribute to the god of Vengence, and based off Xivu's opening statement, she is seeking Vengence for Oryx.

[@bistromatic443]

seriously expected an "Aiat!" at the end instead of "but that is all from me for now" :V

[@tico2299]

Eris knew this as Xivu feels guilty and a failure as a sibling. She's indirectly tithing to Eris with her desire for vengeance from the moment she infiltrated the spire.

[@Gamingdragon618]

i think we're gonna see an agent of xivu make an attempt on eris's life soon. and if that said agent was sent to exact revenge on xivus behalf. (which they most certainly would be) in the moment before her death, a throne world would be born and eris would come back stronger than before. not nearly as strong as if xivu were to weild the blade herself. But still a significant amount stronger.

[@Salemander5000]

The talk of Eris becoming stronger though being struck down got me thinking.. what if Kelgorath is some kind of Demigod of death? It would explain how he keeps coming back, and it fits his title. It would also make him an unspeakably dangerous foe, being summoned back and empowered simply by killing him to begin with.

[@Mypeenorhurt]

That would be fucked, if kelgorath became the god of death simply by failing upwards

[@Salemander5000]

@@Mypeenorhurt but if he’s been one this entire time, then has he really been failing? It would mean that he’s simultaneously making Xivu and himself much more powerful every time we fight him, regardless of the battle’s outcome.

[@h2sbro]

A trap of vengeance for Xivu on this scale, something Xivu doesn't see coming, would for sure empower Eris a ton, as previously discussed. However, Eris winning this fight would also be a massive act that would serve beneficial for Savathun, as it is an act of trickery and deception. However again, I could also be entirely wrong about Savathun gaining any power from this act, due to being separated from the worm that gave her the power and hunger for deception in the first place. Even further after that being said, I can't remember if Eris has a worm to begin with. If I'm remembering correctly, there's a worm of a sort within Eris's tithing staff, but maybe it isn't truly connected to her in the same way as the other hive gods, and could also be a reason that she's able to transfer back and forth from hive to human. After pointing out the deception potentially empowering Savathun at the beginning of this comment, it was all an active thought stream from there, soabsolutely feel free to correct me on things I'm incorrect about or that I've misremembered!

[@Chazzasaurus]

That ending speech about who she pursues vengeance for, I remember hearing her say it all in a cutscene or bit of dialogue. Does anyone know exactly where? Also, Byf’s reading and explanation is absolutely top notch. Got me so hyped for everything to do with Eris. 22:23

[@TimothyMark7]

eris bascially outsmarted xivu's outsmarting

[@eleanorcerar6273]

I really do hope we get some more concrete Toland lore this season; the seeds for it are everywhere. Between Eris Taking vengeance for Toland's death in the Hellmouth, and Toland's squanderous views towards Oryx's legacy, there's so much potential to expand on.

[@dynojackal1911]

As Eris says, Sword Logic isn't an indisputable law of nature. "Survival of the fittest" is only a parable for the cycle of life and death. Sword Logic is more like the Viking belief of glory in battle; that a warrior needs to kill as many enemies as possible before they die, so they may be welcomed into Valhalla. Eris not caring for the Sword Logic despite wielding it, and Xivu's wants conflicting with her worm's needs, will serve to empower Eris and hobble (potentially cripple) Xivu Arath. There's a reason that the Greco-Roman deity of Vengeance is so powerful and revered. so revered.

[@Tzoppo11]

Impeccably deduced and completely agree. The mic drop on this really is what she says to drifter in echo of Xivu to Oryx.

[@mistrmarksgames7151]

I was thinking about this the other day, like xivu kills eris, then we hear a " I am vengeance, and you have conjured me back with vengeance "

[@HaloDieHard]

Byf I am sure you are aware of this but there is a difference between revenge and vengeance. It's a very subtle difference, but a difference. Revenge and vengeance are not one in the same. One doesn't necessarily lead to turn into the other. For this gambit to work the guardian(s) or Eris have to 'wound' Xivu first.

[@Invaderbob7]

I'm only a few minutes in but Byf asking the question of if we can use one logic against another just brought to my attention that since season of The deep, we now know that Xivu has been wanting vengeance against us for oryx and the fact that we've neglected to take the throne. And what is Eris morne becoming the god of?

[@garrettviewegh9028]

I like how Byf says, “that’s nothing new for the Hive God of deception”. Consider secrets, depending on the ones she knows, and we don’t, the more we know about her, the more predictable she becomes, the weaker she could get. Her strength hinges on her knowing much, and her enemies, knowing little, try to understand her. But we understand her a great deal now, which could be a deadly poison that could result in Savathun’s final death. A poison, that is not quite potent, as we do not know the results either, or what the side effects could be. Perhaps a power vacuum could open with all three Hive Gods dead? We’ll have to wait and see how it all pans out.

[@fallentitan9811]

Honestly, a small part of me pities Zivu Arath. She’s desperate for validation, and while she does want to kill Eris it’s also clear she does see her at least partly as a little sister.

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

Here's the thing, she wants to kill her but now out of love. She wants to kill her over and over and over just like the three sisters used to back in the day. Not out of vengeance, but out of (Hive) love

[@keitathejoker6705]

This narrative sent so many chills down the spine. Great job Lore Daddy!!

[@Jimtheneals]

So if Xivu attacks Eris for vengeance, then she'll end up like Obi-wan Kenobe? " If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."? Makes sense.

[@thepoorgamer3208]

I think something too keep in mind is that the point of the season is to resurrect Savathun, and I would imagine that Eris’s plan seems like a cunning trap, something that would likely conjure a certain God of Trickery

[@malaydivekar3062]

Byf explaing sword logic like he wrote it.Chills. Amazing work dude

[@becsbecs3116]

a little thing i like, you can match vengeance and war up in the prisoner's dilemma, war as unconditional defector, and vengeance as grim/tit for tat, vengeance loses the first round but then fully stalemates the unconditional defector

[@PaidInCash212]

I've always for 6 or 7 years since we killed oryx that our power in sword logic sets us above everyother enemy we face only really matched by riven and rhulk so now to see that finally in play is really cool

[@Mediados]

Fascinating, in order to fight Eris, Xivu will have to exact vengeance, therefore tithing back to Eris. She will encounter the same stalemate we found ourselves in.

[@Blindluck92]

Xivu keeps playing the "I am war, you cannot fight me with more war" card. Now it's turned against her because she can't get revenge on the Hive god of Vengeance.

[@DJAlmighty45]

I wonder if the way we get a friendly hive faction is a group following Eris for vengeance against what the witness took from them, what they were and could have been, Krill.

[@KurtAustin2448]

So....with Savathun's worm being excised, thus freeing her from the sword logic, does she still gain tithes when deceit and trickery are used? If so, then Xivu may end up also tithing to Savathun in the process of inadvertently tithing to Eris while acting in vengeance. And even if not, that would leave Savathun as the last remaining of the original triumvirate of Hive gods, and even while wielding the Light, she will have also proven her right to exist in the sword logic. And more concerning is that we don't know what Savathun's end goal is. There have been several occasions where her actions have benefited humanity, even if only coincidentally. And even her plan during the witch queen campaign wasn't without merit. She clearly knew that the simplest way to foil the witness's plan was to simply make the traveler unavailable. Sure, that also meant it would be pretty much in her pocket, but it would've also meant the black fleet would no longer have business with Earth and the last city. In a way, we acted against our own long term interests by looking after our short term interests. Which speaks to a much larger problem with the Guardians and the Vanguard. We're very reactive, and the few times we're able to be proactive, there's resistance from our leadership. Not trying to denigrate Ikora or Zavala, but we do seem to go from responding to one threat to responding to the next. Wielding Stasis and now tithing to Eris are among the few times we've had a chance to get ahead of our enemies, and both surviving members of the vanguard have expressed displeasure.

[@daisymeroalin2372]

Oof, this narrative gives me goosebumps. Good job Byf, as always

[@philipgordon4517]

So when you listed all the hive powers we've taken out at the end, you missed a few. There's Morgeth, and then there's Morgeth. There's also Morgeth. Finally, there's Morgeth.