Destiny 2 Lore - Rasputin was willing to KILL to keep this secret. Centrifuse reveals it for us...

[@CaptainRasmot]

A Fold Drive. They are literally talking about a Fold Drive. That same principle behind an Einstein Rosenbridge. This is what both of the Pells discovered. They found a way to not only harness and contain Plasma (probably on a fundamentally smaller or larger scale), but also how to USE that same Plasma to Fold space itself. Probably literally the same thing that the Traveler can do . . . and by extension the Pyramid fleet. This is not "just" FTL travel this is *THE* FTL travel, the ability to fold both Space and Time to move between areas that would take YEARS to do in barely a *second* . Now why would this be a problem? Because more than likely that same Tech could be used to trace back to the Sol System . . . and then used to open a *door* to the Sol System. I am more than certain that at the time the Deep Space Probe was launched was right around the time Malahayati made the discovery of the Darkness. That the Probe would have inadvertently lead the pyramid fleet towards Sol at a much sooner time than it was going to arrive. I don't know if the Probe itself was launched, or if it was still in the experimental stages. If it was "Self-Sufficient" that means it would have been able to not only Jump, but also to be able to Jump BACK without needing to immediately refuel. Or that it was able to refuel on the move, meaning that it wouldn't need to return back to the Sol system. I am working under the assumption that this was all still experimental and that the probe was maybe still under construction, so more than likely that same probe is sitting in a warehouse awaiting completion, that or a million piles of scrap. So if that is the case then the actions of Rasputin bought the people of Sol *time* . Time that it desperately needed.

[@erandielu]

Gotta get this to top comment

[@ziltax8666]

Fun fact, you can see folds in space time. They're called fermions and you can see it plainly around the throne world. An area we know went through this process. The cloudy stuff in the sky that is similar looking to oil on water.

[@IKniveZI]

That is not quite accurate and a bit contradictory. My area of expertise is quantum physics and topics involving light speed. Your description of a "Fold drive" is what would be considered a Warp drive. The fictitious description would be that this distorts or warps the fabric of space time "Folding" it to create shorter distances. Which would require exotic matter in reality but for the sake of the lore we can ignore that. The ship isn't going "Faster than light" it is simply making the distance shorter to travel which creates the illusion of breaking the cosmological constant.

[@ziltax8666]

I'd be curious to hear more about some of the other quantum physics related thing in Destiny. I can't help be see a large scale quantum cooling and computing with the veil, stasis and the radial mast. I've enjoyed Destiny's areas where science theory is pushed with paracausal abilities. Stasis being able to reach absolute zero, a tangle concious of the universe(can strand be quantum cooled?) And the electro magnetic field descriptions of the veil. Which brings me to the quantum cooling. Irl when we use a magnetic field with quantum cooling the hyper liquid state particles are called fermions if I am right. (Vs Bose-Einstein particles, even number of electrons doesn't need the magnetic field). The veil even seems to be able to create a synthetic conciousness which is theorized to be required for quantum computing.

[@Valhaluke]

Whispers telling Maya what the veil is called in her own voice, and her then claiming it as our salvation sounds very influenced by the witness.

[@twiz66]

Oh absolutely... Iirc Clovis mentions "salvation" at one point too. But I think he kept any mention of whispers to himself to not sound crazy or just to keep all the credit as his own

[@ChaosTheory0]

It isn't The Witness whispering to Maya, if that's what you're trying to imply.

[@liamjones1630]

@@ChaosTheory0 so was that not the witness saying it was our salvation at the end of shadowkeep then? as this follows the same lines as that, touching a relic of darkness/ being around something connected to the darkness causing this twice can’t be a coincidence

[@saitomitsurugi18]

No he did. That's how he discovered Clarity control. I think Elsie said "a voice told him to do it" referring to unleashing the Vex.

[@JakeSafetyMan]

That's what I was thinking

[@angilexx]

Calling that David Pell discovered how to use the Veil to open a paracausal teleporter in the same method that the Witness used to interface with the Traveller

[@liamjones1630]

By the sounds of it he discovered the veil through the electromagnetic current from his probe which would of also indicated the pyramid ships, i just don’t get how Rasputin knew it was the veil/ an invading force beforehand just from the readings of the em, there is defo something missing here

[@liamjones1630]

Maybe with the pyramid on europa, Rasputin already had the knowledge of the ships/ knew what was really coming, just don’t where the em fits in off the veil

[@xloboestepariox]

@@liamjones1630 as far as i know the soteria AI from SotW dungeon detected the thread of the pyramid fleet then it was imprisoned by Clovis (it took decision without human aproval), my best guess is that Rasputin knowledge of the veil and the fleet was bc of soteria

[@liamjones1630]

@@xloboestepariox good point, as a sub mind I thought it would of been cut off or as soon as Clovis saw the info he deactivated it and put part of it in the bow, but I forgot it started acting on its own, good catch!

[@garrettviewegh677]

It’s really telling just what a huge impact Rasputin had on Sol, as the many secrets and mysteries he’d kept under wraps, we’re still unraveling. Even after his bittersweet sacrifice/death.

[@natedevos1511]

Yeah if he wasn't around it wouldn't have changed the outcome at all

[@joshuasmith29]

I thought that rasputin might have been using electromagnetism to trap the traveller. If she found out about his plan, that would have a huge impact and rasputin would certainly kill a colony ship to keep the traveller here.

[@svettie]

Man I Miss rasputin. Liked his character and his arc in the season

[@bobletgoblet537]

Interestingly, the lost pacific legendary armour set makes reference to Shanice Pell, showing how baffled she was with the probe’s findings and how she wanted her information to get to the public no matter the cost.

[@4ncientGu150]

Really? That's neat.

[@oliverlarosa8046]

I'll have to look into that

[@annoyingnessbeginswithme5698]

Dr. Pell got turned into freaking macaroni poor guy

[@Butter_Warrior99]

Hope we can make him into mac and cheese, and hope nobody will stop me.

[@thejaysayber225]

I love reading top comments before the video starts, really gets me nice and invested into whoever Dr. Pell is and how the fuck they got turned into macaroni

[@mrscat432]

​@@thejaysayber225i agree , let em cook !

[@noivern4346]

@@mrscat432not the puns…

[@ryanlewis2039]

There is so such “hwhat” in this sentence

[@emeraldbonk5368]

When I heard in the lore about Rasputin, force multiplying suits, and electomagnets, all I could think of was ACD/0 Feedback Fence

[@moxie6132]

Spitballing, but in the development of the feedback fences, the speaker talks about the Kessler Syndrome, where a planet can fill up its orbital space with fast-moving debris that tears apart anything that comes in contact with it. Perhaps this is what D. Pell means when he says you don't want to use it in the solar system. The transfer could possibly move cosmic debris on either end at such a speed, they impart the Kessler Syndrome upon nearby planets

[@truekurayami]

It works with a number of exotics and how they came about. ACD/O is a good point of showing how the "Physical" force of that tech could be used in armor while Crown of Tempests Shows the "Electrical" force that was created, and there is Centrifuge and Coldheart showing these principles as a weapons.

[@evylinredwood]

​@@truekurayami Coldheart not so much, as it's based (loosely) on cold fusion technology we're already working on IRL.

[@truekurayami]

@@evylinredwood And the research mentioned fusion batteries. While Coldheart might have been developed with similar tech, it is building up more energy then It can properly utilize causing the beam to initially overcharge the longer it's hitting a point of resistance(namely living things) before reaching a critical point that excess energy gets shed as arc traces. This is why I say Coldheart works as an example of how the reserch could have major in developing certain exotics.

[@aviatorengineer3491]

The "Last Days on Kraken Mare" book really was excellent, crazy that we've had it for so long and we're still unraveling the connections.

[@BlackLionRampant]

Same thing with Revelation. That book was so eerie.

[@sukulmati]

19:51 It sounds like what they're talking about is the same or similar to how the Witness removes planets except without the all the practice and refinement.

[@Nightchade]

@Byf, it sounds like the convergence point mentioned would be the point where two points of reality are overlapped, in the same fashion popularized by the movie Event Horizon. Theoretically, it would allow for instantaneous travel, regardless of distance. The "principal scales" refers to an energy input to spatial distance ratio, meaning the more energy you dump into this sort of drive, the farther you can instantly hop. They were talking about FTL travel, but by sidestepping physics as opposed to actually moving the ship. Instead, they move space and time.

[@ninjashadow35]

Similar to a Einstein-Rosen Bridge?

[@justcallmeness]

You know what I always think about whenever Ishtar comes up? Dr. Shim. In D1, when we enter the facility, the computer greets us as Dr. Shim...i always wondered if either we were Dr.Shim (no, because we are our own character), or if one of the 227 was in the Vex network and helped us from within even back then... before we even knew what we know now!

[@CicadaOne999]

I remember Seth Dickinson confirming around the time of Season of Arrivals that there was a second part of Last Days on Kraken Mare that, with Titan being vaulted, they weren't sure it would ever end up coming out. I've wondered how much of this season's lore is adapted from that, if any.

[@georgebillings8774]

I think the main point of Centrifuse's lore is that the short battery life is why Sloane's "Battle Suit" is no longer around. There's also her interaction with Drifter in salvage that confirms that she had to tear herself out of it after it ran out of power.

[@popycorn300]

the seasonal armor talks about how sloane almost died and how the power suit was getting torn apart by hive when ahsa saved her

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

@@popycorn300 yeah. Sloane lied to us saying It Ran out of juice

[@cykeok3525]

@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 From what the armor lore says, Xivu's Hive finally captured Sloane and they destroyed the suit while prying it off her, even her Ghost Siochain got caught too... but Ahsa showed up, wrecked Hive shit, and saved them, right?

[@Lorentz_Driver]

Or they were just too lazy to give her a new model.

[@garrettviewegh677]

It’s kind of terrifying and bleak, how the actions, choices, and fate, of some people were not truly their own. The Veil and survival of humanity? The Witness seemingly manipulated Maya and the early founders for its own purposes, such as being able to claim the Veil centuries later; the Neomuni didn’t find the Veil, Savathun left it there for them to find and build a city to survive; and Rasputin executed orders that impacted humanity and the Dark Age years later. In these instances, what people thought were their own fates and decisions, were just orchestrated by higher powers.

[@Anonymous-bk9xy]

They stepped on our sandcastles long enough, time we took matters 𝙞𝙣𝙩𝙤 𝙤𝙪𝙧 𝙤𝙬𝙣 𝙝𝙖𝙣𝙙𝙨.

[@cathef117]

Rly makes ya think huh

[@SaFireSunSet]

I feel it has to do with the anomaly on the moon, remember, rasputin dropped a warsat on a guardian for touching it, and its clearly being "contained". Killing a colony ship full of people to kill the person who might have designed that containment and knows whats inside, seems trivial.

[@seryphgaming]

if im remembering correctly, Convergence Point typically refers to Star Clusters and the like in Astronomy, or the point in which two points connect/converge in physics. Byf, if you plan on digging a bit more into this weird discovery that was made, it might be worth looking into The Convergent Point Method, or CPM. It also bears similarities to Moving-Cluster Method, both of which might be worth looking into. I would explain more myself, but im currently at work at the moment of typing this out for you

[@captaindapper5020]

If you look at the end of Season of Deep's Week 5's cutscene, you'll see the traveler with the portal over it, and behind it you can see several of D2's typical geometric shapes. However, these shapes are very different from the normal overlapping squares and circles. This one, instead, is made up of curving lines that all converge on a few spots. The most remarkable spot is just outside the boldest and biggest circle. This is maybe a "whatever" kind of thing, except that coupled with a few other details here and there, I think this is implying a destination outside of our universe. Not only that detail lines up with the cutscene, but David saying that they could use the principle scales for "whatever we want" sounds an AWFUL lot like what the Witness people discovered in the Veil.

[@evylinredwood]

I think "convergence point" is referring to wormhole tech. The files being referenced as "drive plans" indicates usage as transportation, and convergence is likely related to gravitational anomalies and converging space. It's like folding a piece of cloth, then sticking a pencil through it. The fabric will "pull" around the tip of the pencil, bringing parts of the fabric and the pattern on it with it, until the point is strong enough to force its way through. Magnetism (and magnetic wormholes) is the starting point for tech like this, but maybe not the endpoint.

[@hunterpalmer3183]

You know i want to point out an interesting detail about the weapon, the body of the weapon or at least all of the parts that serve no purpose in it's firing are made out of wood, now wood doesn't conduct electricity, electricity can't move through wood and that's the reason why your guardian isn't constantly being shocked while using the weapon.

[@Landis963]

It occurs that, regardless of the electromagnetic containment breakthroughs, a deep-space probe with evidence of self-sufficiency would be as good as a dinner bell to the Witness, especially if it caught a whiff of paracausal uplift.

[@athroughzdude]

One of the moments that earned the Tyrant his moniker.

[@garrettviewegh677]

Really harkens back to Season of the Seraph, and one of Rasputin’s last conversations with Anna after he’d become more human. He’d become more aware and guilty of the atrocities he’d committed that made people call him The Tyrant. This lore is one such time that justifies that moniker. Yet, in the end, Rasputin atoned for his mistakes, in sacrificing his own life to protect humanity. Really puts things into perspective.

[@ryankoh917]

Humanity's survival at all costs... 1 is still higher than 0, even if yoi have to make 2 into 1

[@ziltax8666]

If you look at the veil and notice it spinning, as electromagnetic objects do you wipl also notice that it is in a large centrifuge angled at the same pitch as the veil. Probably part of how they got energy from it.

[@divinelawmakers7818]

Knowing Rasputin he would kill for a lot of things 😅 (lovin' the video so far)

[@63Limar]

TBF, killing so no one would use Felwinter's Lie in PvP is justtified

[@rocablade6908]

Thing is Rasputin never killed for no reason, others may get caught in the crossfire like with the Pell instance or with the Iron Lords, but there was an underlying reason for it like with Pell we just read it and with the Iron Lords it was to kill Felwinter

[@jointfreeman3971]

In every lore tab mf killing someone💀

[@thedankpapyrus4779]

In my mind is the pell’s probe found or found evidence of the black fleets approach so Rasputin wanted that info to stop a mass panic then he wanted the magnetic info to try to make weapons that could deal with fleet itself since Rasputin had no idea about the veil prior to the witness’ first coming to sol

[@Pestillence85]

I don't know about the rest of your fan base. But I'm thankful that you make these videos for us. I love these stories and I hope to be absolutely blown away by the ending

[@chrismorgan2824]

Stopped playing this game almost two years ago, still listening to the lore... Thanks for the video

[@Obi_Wan_Shinobi_81]

It may not have only been what the deep space probe discovered that Rasputin was concerned about, but what could have discovered the probe itself, and traced it back to Sol.

[@JKeemTV]

I had gotten really interested in the lore on the weapons from Ghosts from the Deep and, after some looking around, had figured that they lined up with what happened with Kraken Mare. When I think of a deep space probe, I'm assuming that it's going past our solar system and if that was the case, you could infer that the probe may have discovered evidence that the pyramid fleet was on its way. The GotD weapons describe what the terror the citizens of Titan went through as they tried to escape their doom but surprisingly, it wasn't the Witness who put the last nail in their coffin, it was the Warmind. Rasputin shot down any ship trying to escape Titan, ensuring that they would all die. Now why would he do this? The only reasonable explanation I came across was that if humanity was to learn what the Witness was capable of, humanity is more likely to destroy itself, so Rasputin takes out all the survivors so humanity remains unaware of their doom, hides, and hopes that enough will survive the collapse to keep the species going. I like this idea because I don't think you need a deep space probe to go only as far as Neptune at this point in Humanity's advancement when they're spread as far as Europa and Titan, and at this point in time Rasputin should already be aware of the extinction level event that is on the way from the lore we learned from Spire of the Watcher which would have kicked off Twilight Extingent in the first place. Also I don't believe the planets would've experienced the collapse at the same time, Europa wasn't hit all as far as we know, Titan just got unlucky to be found, so Earth would've been the last place hit which means Savathun wouldn't have hidden the veil yet in my eyes.

[@F1rstp3rson]

I am glad Rasputin got "deactivated" if he had not done this, humanity would have had a chance. And just to spoiler something, the vex are the final shape.

[@User-Ryan135]

@@F1rstp3rson They used to be, they were the end of the flower game, the single strongest entity nothing could beat, the pinnacle of Sword Logic. That's no longer the case, the Gardener made sure of that. The Vex for one were beaten by the Hive, Oryx alone beat them into submission. For two, were beaten by Guardians, and for a third time were outsmarted and now are being used by Asher Mir. The Vex is no longer the Final Shape. If they return to be it, they would need some serious assistance, and a power beyond both Light and Darkness to lay a claim to that title once again. As is, they don't have that and with Asher Mir on the inside, they might not get the chance again

[@declantighe8854]

Thr idea of implying that something used to be the final shape kinda proves that they're weren't ever it if you think about. It's supposed to be the last living thing at the end of everything

[@User-Ryan135]

@@declantighe8854 They were the Final Shape, then the rules changed, and the end result is no longer the end result, what was isn't what is. That's where we are now, the Vex were the strongest before paracausal forces got involved, and now they can't keep up

[@declantighe8854]

@User-Ryan135 Strongest at the time doesn't mean that they were the Final Shape. If that were the case then that title would have changed hands many times over, something can only be the final shape when nothing else is left. It might just be me but from everything in the story that certainly seems to be the defining characteristic for something to be the final shape.

[@vorlon010]

Regarding David Pell's 'drive' description - I'm inclined to think this is related to the 'self sufficiency' and 'deep space probe' if we assume it relates to interstellar FTL. It's technobabble but it has the same kind of shape as Fold Drive from Macross/Robotech, with the similar motif of 'don't turn it on in atmo if you don't want to take something with you'. As to what the probe might have found, I'm also thinking along the lines of Drifter commenting on what's out in the deep black. There's an aspect of Destiny's lore that sometimes comes up - 'why us?' or 'what's so special about humanity?'. Is it possible, considering everything we've seen and the few bits of info we have... that there's *nothing*? LIke, all extrasolar life is gone? All we know of the stories of our alien allies and enemies is what *was* - when was the last time Ciatal got a communique from the rest of the Cabal? That'd sure be a reason for humanity to be important - we're all that's left, this round of the Flower Game is in it's closing moves, after all. Further, this would be disasterous for humanity if it was public knowledge as "there can never be an interstellar human empire as everything else in the universe is dead or worse".

[@weaselprime8654]

The Pell probe definitely *didn't* find the Veil, because the Veil was in the hands of the Pyramid Fleet. It may have found the Fleet, though.

[@_elitenightmare4794]

Neomuna already existed by the time the Pell Probe was created??? Savathun killed Nezarec and hid the veil on neptune during the collapse where the Witness kidnapped multiple planets and moons. The Pell Probe was created within the small timespan of the fleet being detected by Rasputin and the veil being moved, thus, it’s last findings could’ve very well been the Veil on Neptune, however, Pell may have thought it was just a pyramid ship that had already ventured way farther than the rest, due to the signal possibly being the same!

[@weaselprime8654]

@@_elitenightmare4794 That timeline you're suggesting doesn't bear out. Rasputin silenced Pell and wiped her lab in response to what the probe found (see: the lore entries Byf cites), and he did while Titan still had a noteworthy population (ditto), meaning he did so before the Collapse.

[@saintjimmy_ajh]

Byf: treat Centrifuse with respect! Me, literally dismantling it: 👀

[@theSixPathsOfTrains]

Me thats still using it...I like it

[@sarus-x1422]

Could that last lore documentary be talking about a method to create wormholes? I have no real clue, but it it sounds like some sort of mass-distance travel. Teleportation and/or wormholes are the first things that come to mind.

[@oddjob6795]

Maybe the drive is an Alcubierre drive? It (theoretically) contracts space in front of a craft and expands behind it. Think negative gravity, a push instead of a pull, and this is one of the theorized ways we could achieve FTL travel

[@danieldacorte8000]

Quick google search says the suffix "-phasic" means changing phase/state, so "Cosmophasic" would be the changing state of space itself. The speed of light is the fastest anything can travel IN SPACE. But if we bend space around us, we could ignore this rule. This would be the only way (short of Paracausal powers) to get Faster Than Light (FTL) travel, by creating a Wormhole (Einstein-Rosen bridge is the scientific term). Not to mention that an Einstein-Rosen bridge is EXACTLY what the game used to describe the portal on the Traveler. Jisu Calerondo from Neomuna Civil News said as much, that Neomuni scientists claimed the portal the Witness made seemed to be "An Einstein-Rosen bridge, but with Paracausality." Maybe this is how we follow the Witness into the Traveler!

[@twiz66]

Unless I'm mistaken Rasputin didn't know of the Veil before the Collapse. Didn't the Veil come to Sol along with the pyramid fleet during the Collapse?

[@Wig-po5nb]

He might have gotten some of the data from Maya before they removed Neomunia from archives maybe some of the dead exos sent stuff to his sub minds

[@v.rocky111]

I don't think we know how the veil got on Neptune

[@twiz66]

@@v.rocky111 All the specific details? No. But we do know that Savathun hid it there. And we can assume it was intentional, since Maya (I think) comments something like "it's almost as if we were meant to find it".

[@eliaspanayi3465]

Here's a spoiler warning, but my theory is that the witness brought the veil to the sol system in order to connect it to the traveler, however savathun used an illusion and tricked the witness into thinking it was dead, or otherwise unable to be used for the purpose the witness wanted, so it left, and savathun stole the veil and hid it on neptune so that soteria's escape pod would find it and secure it. I'm not really sure if rasputin would have had the opportunity to see the veil during that time, but if the witness planned on linking it to the traveler it would have to have been nearby

[@uhsul]

I consider CENTRIFUSE the Colibri version of Tommy's Matchstick and with a decent ARC build it really comes to life.

[@kead_davidson]

If the Centrifuse is Calibri, what font is Tommy's Matchstick?

[@uhsul]

@@kead_davidson I think I'll use Avant Garde instead Kead.

[@Landis963]

​@@kead_davidson Papyrus.

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

If the comments here are correct, than the probe found a way to beat physics into submission and to effectively teleport. After we kill the Witness and finally put an end to the Light and Dark saga, then it's likely we could use the probe's research to be able to explore areas beyond Sol.

[@ARedHat]

There's a lot about the Doctors of the past recently. Dr. Pell on Titan, First Doctors who studied the Veil, and the creation of Striders

[@zachialadams9279]

The term 'convergence' in that word salad leads me to think he's referring more to a large-scale version of quantum entanglement. Not just teleportation, but essentially taking something from one part of the universe, and making it exist in another as well through entangled interactions. It's like being in 2 places at the same time.

[@jacemcelroy-ml7wf]

Did Cayde know where the veil is? Wasn’t there a thing from him that had a secret message that said “It’s on Nefeles”. I haven’t heard any updates on theories or speculations and it’s driving me nuts.

[@TheCyberGoblin]

13:44 So according to wikipedia, the Von Neumann-Wigner hypothesis is that consciousness is required to complete quantum measurement. Now... I don't fully understand what that actually means, but as far as I can tell it means stuff like Shrodinger's Cat works in respect to how all possible outcomes simultaneously existing turning into a single outcome only occurs because it was a conscious thing observing it. Curiously, apparently the hypothesis is also called "Consciousness causes Collapse"

[@99Knytes]

"If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

[@elijahford3696]

Well, knowing resonance was a key word from a while ago, it could be referring to harmonic resonance. Frequency can do some interesting things. Shatter crystal, vibrate a string, and resonate in the right conditions. Resonance can function to amplify not just sound, but as the researcher said, many other principles. The drive itself, and how it functions in a vacuum, hard to say for certain what the energy gradient is. But this is sci fi, so spacetime isn't off the table.

[@LordOfCourage]

Great video and very well put on how The Witness origin was delivered. Theres not much storyline left in the season and we still have little knowledge about Asah and her future, or Sivu Arath and her plans. I’m really interested in seeing what’s going to happen here… We do know there is a whole Final Shape campaign which may come with more seasons of slow story too…

[@MichaelMiller-bs3tz]

I have a theory what could drive Rasputin to go to such extremes and why the data Dr. Pell is so dangerous. Let me explain: The "self sufficient" probe or rather the tech that makes it self sufficient is what is the problem. A deep space probe cant rely on the sun for power, nor a battery or reactor because eventually the fuel will be exausted. The only way for the probe to be "self sufficient" is if the tech onboard allows the probe to charge up some how. Now think back to the Centrifuse gun, movement charges it up. This is what the tech does on the probe, movement charges the probe up. Now why is this such a threat? The amount of power that the deep space probe requires would be significant to be fully functional. The fact that movement alone powers it and is self sufficient means Dr. Pell created a technique that outputs more energy than it puts in it, meaning Dr. Pell has created a Perpetual Motion machine. Wild right? In the Centrifuse lore tab it states that the tech was used to stabilize ionic reactors. It later mentions that the turbines are creating more energy than the Arcology consumes (it may also explain why the Arcology still has power today). Imagine what weapons could be made with this kind of tech. From rifles to Warsats, how powerful could they become? Now lets get even more crazy...imagine this tech fused with paracausal power. This is Godlike power here. We were already experimenting with Paracausal power but, Rasputin probably knew that humanity didn't have enough time to weaponize paracasual power to fight off the Pyramid fleet so what it decided to do was Asset Denial. Destroy every file and every one with first hand knowledge on how to build this tech. As for the "Drive", the "Drive" I think David is referring to may form a Wormhole. He's right about not being in-system when you activate it, because a Wormhole functions as a Black Hole when falling in. Anything nearby would be dragged in with it (likely destroying it). The fact that he said "The principle scales" means that just about anything can be transported through it, a ship, or even a planet.

[@daniellewis3330]

20:25 I feel like we *have* faster-than-light travel right now. Drifter talks about visiting worlds, with life, outside Sol (worlds plural, so not just a single trip), which would require FTL travel to fit into the timeline (the collapse was only 500-ish years ago, according to Failsafe bemoaning her crew's deaths). Also, our jumpships go between the worlds of our system in seconds, where light would take hours (I mean, that's taking the loading screen times as accurate, but what else do we have?), which also indicates at least *some* level of being at least faster than light, but certainly not as fast as a teleporter.

[@soundcloudpandapandawa2997]

What if whatever the probe found was the same thing drifters crew found. And somehow raputin had observed its affects on people turning on each other for no reason. Thus he came to the conclusion that anyone that comes into contact with whatever's outside of the sol system and the data the probe found was an extreme threat to humanity. Kinda like a cognito hazard having to be contained and just like a rotting limb you wpuld have to amputate, but In this case its the scientist and her research team. And the Serpahs were sent to not only protect them but also keep them Titan.

[@Thecoffeeconsumer]

the Veil is so strange to think about, isn't it?

[@warlockceo1549]

Yeah, I mean... the word... VEIL. It's remarkable. I mean, that's all most people know of it, so I can't say much else on the matter.

[@Thecoffeeconsumer]

@@warlockceo1549 it's like the answer is right there, but we're all either looking in the wrong spot, or flat missing it entirely

[@VortexStolenName]

When the lore is better than the gun

[@AgentZarkov_2133]

Finally got around to watching this and there’s some fascinating lore stuff here. Great video!

[@DaysOfMourning]

"...may well have killed thousands..." me out here with my lament easily breaking that nbd.

[@shadowninja-pw9dk]

So in the K1 lore when it talks about taking earth with it could that possibly be related to 2 truths and 2 lie when she said the power to move worlds will soon be ours, maybe the using the vale we can, not best on lore so dont know if any of this has be deciphered yet which proves me wrong

[@TheFerrett3]

If you rotate the pieces you've given us. You get a deepspace probe. A massive power source and 2! Endeavours trying to work on magnetic fields and mass acceleration. To use a Mass Effect Tm term.... you have the pieces for a mass relay (or other form of ftl travel). The question is: what destination is so dangerous that that becomes a risk to humanity. Maybe where ever the witness has gone?

[@DredgenStorm]

It feels like there's a lot of missing pieces to the puzzle of this season. Perhaps the next reset or the upcoming Exotic Weapon will finally give us actual answers. I don't know anymore. I'm feeling burned out this season and we're about to start week 5. I just KNOW there's something huge we're missing, but I just DON'T see what it is.

[@davidtodd7271]

Convergence points are usually discussed in regards to “worldliness”, which are the path something follows through space time, and us a calculation of all possible futures.

[@dudeguyrockfan]

From what im gathering with this lore, the scientific terms used throughout destiny, and its themes I have a theory..... since the traveler has visited so many places playing cat n mouse with the pyramid ships and the witness, it's sounds like the witness want revenge on the traveler and hunting it like this using the light and dark to create these wormholes to bring the very universe to collapse on itself kind of a "if I can't have you know one can" vibe similar tones we've seen in red war, or jealously vibes we've had in several seasons. As for how the veil and the spore affects us maybe it affects different species differently, in humans and various cousins, exo, and awoken it fills us with fear, intriguing, yet hesitation, with cabal, ex calus hear salvation filled him with joy and excitement it seemed. Themes of other external alien substances on humanity has been documented in destiny such as vex milk. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@dudeguyrockfan]

Byf I called it please read this.

[@MrKbustera]

Checkof's Gun strikes again!

[@CNightfire]

With regards to Rasputin knowing about The Veil because of the Nefele Stronghold records... does the timeline for that work out? I"m unclear on the timing of a lot of events around and before the collapse, I assumed Savathun moved the veil to Neptune during the collapse - it feels like whatever is happening on Titan in "Final Days on Kraken Mare" is likely proceeding Savathun killing Nezerac. I'm a little hazy why Rasputin would have knowledge of Nefele again - I guess from when Sotaria saw the darkness coming and managed to launch Exodus Indigo? Because it feels like for some stuff to make sense, Exodus Indigo first gets launched (perceived as a false alarm, happens before the collapse starts) but Indigo needs to arrive at Neptune after the veil has been moved there during the collapse, but before rasputin goes dark? (Indigo wasn't originally intended for Neptune)

[@zelious9464]

Everything happened rather quickly from what I can gather. I think it was the winterbite lore tab, where the Indigo was attacked by what is presumably a tormentor as they fled. So, we know they were traveling through the system during the collapse. The Indigo would have launched from Earth at the end of the collapse, at which point Savathun is either in the process of, or has, stolen the Veil. That must be the case because Earth needs to fall after the Veil gets stolen, otherwise Nezerac would have had the Traveller and the Veil in the same place, and the Witness would have won. So the Indigo launches just after the Veil gets stolen, or the Veil gets stolen while they are en-route, and by the time they get to Neptune and reach the surface, it's already waiting for them. I'm going to guess that took less than a week, possibly less than a day, with near light speed travel. Savathun must have just dumped the Veil through a hive porthole the moment she got her hands on it. Which actually makes sense because she would want to get it as far from the Traveller as possible, as fast as possible. I don't think Rasputin knew where it was until after the collapse.

[@CNightfire]

@@zelious9464 But we specifically know the Indigo was launched before the collapse started from the lore from Spire of the Watcher. (Soteria scrambled multiple ships, and basically was thrown into the pillory because of it, breaking off a small piece of themself to hitch a ride on the Indigo.) I suppose the veil could have still been stolen while in route, but given how things went badly for most of the other exodus ships, it feels like there's a pretty small time frame for them to arrive at neptune, escape whatever was pursuing them, and manage to hide on Neptune. Maybe Im making an incorrect assumption? Was the Veil on Neptune the moment they arrived, or did they arrive to Neptune, then find the veil after some time? Maybe their presence on neptune is part of the reason why Savathun hid it there?

[@thechunkmaster8794]

Neomuna was based on two ships: the Exodus Indigo and the Echo Project craft carrying Soteria. It was the latter that was sent before the Collapse.

[@agentjtravel_walkthru4205]

Instant thumbs up 👍 for the lore master!!! Thanks for the video!!

[@DevilsVendettas]

the convergence field is the ascendant plane and Ley lines instant transport across dimension tech. and they probe probably found the veils shielding tech or its signature, but not sure if the timeline matches with the neomuni ppl settlement timeframe fairly vague

[@ErnieOporto]

Dr David Pell’s “taking things with us” in the solar system sounds like “the power to move planets.“

[@beninmalgaard9836]

The Veil is slowly starting to become that one meme of the dude with the wacky hairdo with the word: Aliens.

[@jaydephoenix8712]

"..wouldn't want to take anything with you" Sounds like a gravity drive

[@grunkbigrock5135]

Best guess is he had a drive design which is usually a term used for future space engines and it may have been the drives the witness uses to get around. Or, even the drives we use now. Or a third option because we know K1 has a darkness artifact it did note taking something with you if used in the solar system, it may be the actual way the witness took the planets. The ships showed up to each planet and esentially flew off with the planet and David was shown something like this in the past which we have seen in a good few other golden age darkness affected doctors

[@asimovstarling8806]

the convergence point is a black hole. This is the design of a faster than light travel technology which relies on electromagnetic tech to forcibly condense matter into black hole of tiny size, a black hole the size of a single proton could contain as much matter as a large car or a medium size building. The it has such a weak gravitation force that it can't even pull you in, but its also constantly pulling minuscule amounts of matter in, and constantly emitting massive amount of raw energy in the form of radiation that can be harvested to propel a vehicle at faster than light speeds.

[@probioticant]

This sounds to me like the technology that moved the planets, and if so, I can see why Rasputin wanted it suppressed

[@VoiceOfTheEmperor]

Byf, you're in for a VERY big treat next week...

[@johnchappell2482]

you can use magnetic fields to block and obfuscate radio and other signals so probably out of self-preservation or could be used at the other end at the receiver to block think like a high-speed Faraday cage. when we use ECM in our current war zones to stop IEDS from going off. so from a tactical point of view if you were in Rasputin's shoes tech could help him by letting him have an influence across the system or to stop him you take a hand full of similar devices (hive) he would be unable to carry out his prime directives in protecting the system and the seraphs were there to get the maker and research so or failing that making sure it doesn't fall into enemy hands cause at that point he was probably still thinking the invading fleet was a normal alien physical invasion, not a space magic one

[@KurtAustin2448]

Reading this lore from the first collapse is great, but there's a part of me that wants to see it. Either in game or in non-game visual media. Based on what we've read about the first collapse vs what we've seen from the second, the first time around feels like there's a lot more going on, and everything was more dire. This second collapse seems like the black fleet had to take things more cautiously. Sure, several planetary bodies up and vanished, but it hasn't always felt apocalyptic enough so far (the neomuna content actively goes against setting the proper mood). Compare that to just the Last Days on Kraken Mare lore. That feels more like a genuine invasion. The black fleet uses gravity itself to take Titan off the board all at once, and at the same time, Rasputin is trying to conduct damage control on an interplanetary scale where it can be safely assumed that all of humanity is already dead unless drastic measures are taken. Maybe this is my love of Halo Reach type stuff coming through, but I want more of that feeling. "I know we're losing, I want to know if we've lost." to quote Kat. So far in the post-Arrivals world of destiny 2, I haven't gotten that feeling too much. So far, we've generally managed to hold our own and haven't been pushed back much. Sure, there have been losses, but no catastrophes.

[@KeithHudsonfatherof4]

The convergence point sounds more like time travel. There is research about essentially folding t do points in time together then expanding time back to original points. Not sure how it fits in the narrative.

[@CaydesChicken]

Hello byf! Love me some Rasputin lore!

[@Skavra6]

What about the anomaly on cocytus or the space station with an approaching name with a kind of portal that 'something tries' to pass ?

[@nicolopanti1169]

I think the K1 anomaly is connected to veil especially if the containment method has elettromagnetic fields containment procedures with it and a scientist with the same last name as the one on titan who discovered some elettromagnetic containment thing wich is also what type of anomaly the veil is and especially since the K1 anomaly is on lua where nezarec pyramid ship is who had the veil in it before being betrayed by savathun and killed and then having it in neptune where both are connected to rasputin wich is also the one who killed the scientist on titan and also control the anti-matter bomb on lua in the K1 anomaly containment. Also the witness is probably the First knife wich would carve the universe like an artist with a scalpe and a block of stone and the effect of vibration's (strand) on water (the light).

[@Elipus22]

It was a warp drive technology, my guess. Shifts spacetime about. Want to know a fun idea? It could be similar to the Witness's gravity attacks or even Taking of planets. It moves spacetime, perhaps by gravitons, to stretch and squish and allow for ftl travel compared to the rest of the universe, when you only took one step to go from home to, say, Kepler-22b or for a fun, in universe world, Fundament.

[@xloboestepariox]

cosmophasic field (like the field generated by the veil? ) around the object (the traveler?) to generate a convergence point (like I guess is the portal that the witness crossed?)

[@ThaJice]

Maybe im getting somthing wrong but didn't Savathuns intervention with good old nezzy put the first collaps to a hold and after this hiding the veil on neptune? So how should Rasputin know that the veil is this important later on or must be saved? I think the probe and maybe David Pels drive had something to do with gravity. Like in a convergency of gravity.(singularity) This coul either lead to maybe the Upended or an Einstein Rosen-Bridge which would be just what we need right now.

[@redmoongaming7122]

But the veil wasn’t on Neptune at this point it was on Nezarecs ship? Then if it was the veil how would Rasputin know what it was since again it would of been with the witnesses fleet From my understanding this whole story takes place at the beginning of the collapse before savathuns betrayal..

[@DragonKnight90001]

…..oh…. Would this magnetic containment / plasma technology be seen by the witness as a threat like a threat to paracausal powers or technology wise?

[@BapyTheSnowman]

Rasputin going apeshit for a weapon that looks like it was pulled out of a 1950s fishing trawler gotta be the wildest thing ive seen all month

[@commongivemeanicknam]

Pell probing Neptune send kinda random, when she was a researcher busy researching Titan?

[@SilverSpectre90]

Hey Byf You might can finally talk about "that" cutscene that is finally officially out since today about Megamind and its eternal quest for that Gardener

[@Fadaar]

All I can think of when I hear David being worried about activating the drive? Event Horizon. Oh dear lordy lets not go that route.

[@michaelware4835]

Sounds like David Pell might be talking bout whatever process the Witness uses to steal planets.

[@John-ff9us]

sounds like he may be describing taking when talking about the new drive bringing things with them from the solar system. maybe the dreams were teaching the ability to take to lead humanity closer to the witnesses ideals.

[@Dhairyasheel192]

David Pell could've discovered how to create a Wormhole in that last log... Like the one in front of the Traveller...

[@ronin9380]

Thanks for the great work!

[@shilohlee4332]

Did David figure out how to Take? Not doing it in the *solar system* just in case we bring something with us makes me think of "The power to move worlds will soon be yours"

[@cptragemoar]

Spinfoil theory here, but what if this all ties back to the Anathematic Arc? Something about 'wouldn't want to accidentally bring anything with you' is giving me vibes of escaping our reality

[@oilfan9445]

You should read the lore for the GotD smg No survivors. It has a different view of sorts regarding the destruction of the escape shuttle by the warsat.

[@Sky_Ler2000]

I think the next bit of info we need to know about is where the veil was before Neptune.

[@Koolaid2492]

It was in Nezarec's ship I believe, they were bringing it to Sol to use it on the Traveler when Savathun tricked the Witness and took the veil to Neptune to hide it

[@lostsoul7345]

how did you get that mission with the audio log? is it in parting the veil?

[@IAmOnFyre]

yeah, you can keep going back to the veil building after completing Parting to get more audio

[@kailuun]

On Neomuna bring up the map and move to the far left of the map. You will see the mission there.

[@ProtoMario]

He probably should've killed for a more meta weapon lol

[@ch0zman]

💥 His mobility is OVER 9000 💥

[@talscorner3696]

Were the powered diving suits antecedents to Titan armour?

[@brycerowley7743]

I know the rules, I see new Byf video, I watch

[@davimendel1123]

Maybe the Super suits are the ones Sloane talks about at the end of salvages

[@r32dubz]

Amazing video as always. thanks🙏🏼👽🛸🌌

[@arcadeinvader8086]

I think "willing to kill" is just the normal state of being in the destiny universe. "be careful, he's ready to kill if-" and the guardian is just like "say no more I completely understand where he's coming from"

[@davidh3240]

Lore daddy has posted

[@seanrath6043]

Hey a video on drifters "talk" with Sloane about beyond the Sol system and what's out there sounds horrorish!!😢 cheers mate great video!!

[@justincurll1110]

I've had it up to my briskets with the word paracausal. It used to sound mysterious, back when Bungie hired talented writers for their grimoire cards and dialogue.

[@nemokrad2650]

It’s meant to be a term for a particular kind of behaviour or attribute, it’s not meant to just “be mysterious”