Destiny 2: Reflecting On The Great And Terrible Activision Years

[@GeremyG]

These last 5 years have shown that Bungie really needed Activision support more than Activision needed Bungie. Anytime anything negative happened we all pointed at Activision because we believed in Bungie but the problems have really been Bungie management all along.

[@atomic_wait]

Learning how little influence Actiblizz actually had on many of the own-goal decisions made for Destiny was pretty eye opening. Their leadership is really bad at learning lessons permanently, they seem to repeat the same mistakes every year or two.

[@TheBadger]

Yes, and as much as people hate to hear this, Eververse during the Activision era was not nearly as bad as it is now, I remember getting every single cosmetic added to the game by opening bright engrams which back then were on a knockout system, unlike now.

[@chrisborges7344]

Wasn't just Activision. Bungie has always needed a sugar daddy to stay afloat or driven. Big daddy Microshaft made them successful.

[@FlipFlob13]

They definitely needed the management and manpower. The sheer consistency of the poor decisions since the split has boggled my mind. Games still plenty fun but the cracks have just been easier and easier to see.

[@LordSaliss]

@@chrisborges7344 And that is part of the main problem with Bungie leadership. They want to believe so badly they did everything themselves and it had nothing to do with Microsoft's help that Bungie leadership continually shoot themselves in the foot with bad decisions just to spite MS, when no one at MS cares in the slightest about Bungie anymore.

[@GhostZaith]

I think the biggest difference between old (forge,drifter,oppulence) and new seasons, is that the old seasons main goal was add content and the new ones is give content enough for the year, because last year's content is no longer available.

[@paul_tassi]

that's a good point

[@GosHawk9000]

I think that's a really good point. It's very odd that Bungie chose the route of removing all the seasonal content when the new expansion drops. Knowing the fact that a lot of players only stick around for the major expansion, it would seem advantageous to have all that extra content around for players who missed it. Funny enough the sheer amount of content in the game feels best right before a major expansion, and then drops off right after.

[@cloudstrike5225]

​@@GosHawk9000I believe the reason the keep getting rid of season content for two reason.the size of the game would build pretty big and they would have to go through all the activities when coding new things which would make them take longer to make things. Not makes excuse for them. Just giving reason why

[@sillysiji5257]

The problem with that statement. Is that current seasons literally only provide the equivalent of a weeks worth of content per season. The only argument that the seasons are "6 weeks" worth of content is the fact that progression is capped at 3-4 missions per week. With only 1-2 missions being actual original missions.

[@Klodhvig]

​@GosHawk9000 it's not odd, bungie is forced to remove the seasonal content to make room for next years content. The old gen consoles still being supported is likely a big reason for this necessity

[@Djax111]

Shadowkeep was okay, it definitely was a couple steps down from Forsaken. But then Beyond Light's vaulting is where Bungie's critical failure started

[@RonaldMcDonald519]

Looking back, the single decision which put things on the path to failure was sunsetting. Without some good way to onboard new players, all current players will eventually quit and the game will die.

[@Djax111]

@kevinconway6022 I agree. Thats always been the weakest point is there is no entry point for newcomers. The whole game can be summed up with one statement. "You just had to be there"

[@nastytechniquez9685]

When you have a bunch of relationships go sour back to back then generally everyone else isn’t the problem, you are. Maybe the bungie higher ups have been the true poison all along

[@rmeng3]

I cant believe 5 raids have been vaulted... All of the Leviathan raids, Scourge of the Past, and Crown of Sorrow Last year was my favorite time in Destiny 2. Witch Queen was amazing. Build crafting was becoming incredible, i really enjoyed the Seasons and crafting weapons. I was hyped for Lightfall....... Now, the vibes just feel so bad. Lightfall was so disappointing. The layoffs. The monetization attempts lately have been nonsensical. Even though this season's activity gives a lot of loot, the story has felt pretty lame.

[@VincentLloydM]

The thing that kinda pains me is that I remember playing during the hard times. Nothing really to do... But, i was happy playing the game. Of course I'd still complain about shotguns or whatever else, but I was happier when playing. We also had time to spare so we could imagine the future being poisitive. Now, I'm playing every so often and am probably more unahppy than ever, and we have no real good future prospects of the game. It is just sad seeing how all of that could have been avoided.

[@VladShpiro]

Forsaken was Bungie’s Lighthouse, and in this metaphor High Moon and Vicarious Visions carried their 0,75 KD ass to win. Bungie tried to farm their flawless passage after that, but the card got punched right after the fireteam disbanded. Now all they can do is patrol, heroic public event at the most. Hope this made sense, I’m gone searching for some grass to touch

[@jaguargod3483]

Imagine going to the theater to see Inception and it starts in the middle of the movie and that’s all you get to see. That’s what it feels like to be a new player in destiny. The inability to retain new players is one of their biggest problems. At the point they decided to vault content they should’ve just created a new game.

[@adjcsee4476]

From what I hear, they plan to fix the NL experience. But now it’ll be the end for Destiny. It’s a relatively bland game without the expansions we had been given. It’s certainly a shell of its former self in many ways. Bungie used to be known for Halo. But no one from the team who worked on Halo works there. Maybe one or two left?

[@iamoctonate]

Exactly my experience trying to onboard two to my friends. The amount of work on my end trying to "get them up to speed" and apologizing for the gaping holes of things that are inexplicably left after vaulting. Great comparison on your point.

[@undeadforeststudios]

I find it really hard to believe that destiny 2 is struggling on its own. We saw the steam reports, and I know it’s an expensive game to sustain but I think bungie got used to a certain amount of profits and started to put that money into other games and expanding the company. But now we are led to believe that they are struggling and barely holding on. This is not because destiny 2 is struggling it’s because of bad executive decisions. I mean I don’t know what’s really going on but that’s how it looks to me. I think if destiny profits had solely been allocated to sustaining destiny then they wouldn’t be in this mess.

[@TheWagn156]

Yeah I think this as well. They just bought a huge multimillion dollar facility. And now they are like we have no money...hmmm

[@mildlydazed9608]

What other games? Marathon and Marathon?

[@NightmareCo666]

The higher ups need to take that pay cut….oh wait they’ve mentioned why that’s not happening haven’t they 😂

[@manman-fq4zw]

@@GeordieIsDrunk$20 bucks a month? bro you’re a crackhead for that game. maybe wanna find other hobbies?

[@brmawe]

The Bungie/Activision era was better than the Indpendent era. At least we had to wait for a big expansion & during the down times we could play other games, etc. Now they have this seasonal model which imo has gotten fomo heavy too much.

[@synth_pulse3098]

I still don’t buy into destiny’s “Fomo” what exactly do you feel a sense of FOMO on? I ask this because I genuinely don’t.

[@brmawe]

@@synth_pulse3098Well I meant in terms of the community, I always hear about fomo or something similar. I hope that clears things up☺️.

[@SojiFro_0]

@@synth_pulse3098The story

[@turboash78]

I've NEVER liked this Seasonal model.

[@majorasspain5341]

​@@synth_pulse3098 because the story is linked to seasons and if you miss that season you miss out. They also pay walled some strikes that gave good loot and lore You had to buy dungeon keys to access them even if you own the annual pass

[@g0g0duck20]

I remember playing Shadowsleep and just knowing that expectations were just going to plummet

[@StrangeChickandPuppo]

Paul, you are filling the void for me that the old Fireteam Chat left for me when they quit producing episodes.. I needed a show like that again, so I'm glad you're able to fill that.

[@justingonzalezcolon8652]

In hindsight, Bungie splitting from Activision was the worst decision they ever made. All of us, including me, were at Bungie's side all the way through after the split & had high hopes & expectations that we might see the full potential of Destiny, not just as a game, but also the franchise as a whole. Fast forward to now, I don't even have the energy to play D2 rn. The potential still hasn't been reached & I'm over it. I completely skipped Season of the Witch & have decided to skip Wish as well & I've never done that since before the end of Arrivals. That's how bad Lightfall & 2023 as a whole was. Now I'm currently having fun with Remnant 2 & considering returning to Division 1. I'm taking my energy to other better looter shooters once I beat Final Shape & leave Destiny as a whole behind.

[@joelledbetter2926]

We as a fanbase believed bungie that activision was the big bad and it was easy to blame them but turns out bungie is just as greedy and money hungry ....and its just been our love for this game thats kept most of us coming back even tho there hasnt been much reason in a long time

[@callsignjoker1]

The thing that made the activities of the Forsaken year great was the loot chase. World drop exotics and grinding god rolls is what the game is missing.

[@adjcsee4476]

Why grind when you can just farm the gun and craft it?? Im being sarcastic. I loved grinding for that perfect 5/5.

[@John_II]

I think the peak of D1 was actually Age of Triumph - not TTK... although Taken April was the beginning of the best time in D1. D2 I think peaked in Season of Arrivals because we still had all the content from the Red War, COO, Warmind and Forsaken, and Forge, Drifter and Opulence all available plus pyramids finally came! We still had the exotic quests like Zero Hour and The Whisper, and Cayde's Stash, and no DCV yet and the seasonal model wasn't stale yet.

[@kmanalpha453]

I actually enjoyed The Reckoning as a concept. It was a fun mode, and the unique Gambit sets with unique powers were fun

[@AnthonyJGianotti]

Go fast through opulence as it struck the best balance between pve and pvp for hardcore players. For me the game is at its best when both are thriving in their own ways. With PvP not getting constant support (with higher skill folks wants in mind), along with the closing of high skill pve strats killed the game loop/loot chase for me. This eventually led to me putting the game down at the end of 2022. Frankly, Bungie has lost its 10000hr core audience (many of whom spent like whales in eververse) and winning us back will take moving a mountain since we have largely moved on.

[@adjcsee4476]

The fact that players could go for either PvP or PvE rolled weapons was peak. Some of the best guns and gun types. It gave players of all levels an opportunity to farm for guns they would otherwise never had experienced.

[@AnthonyJGianotti]

@@adjcsee4476 the devolving of the loot chase sucks. Crafting also sucked a lot of the wind out of the game as well, the lack of a dopamine hit related to landing rolls exposes the game as very hollow especially in the seasonal model era.

[@danhockey2020]

Only good content from Bungie since the split were the seasons after Beyond Light and Witch Queen release. The rest of it was not great

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

Damn...its been 5 years!? It feels like a whole lot of nothing happened. Although thats not the case

[@red_menace1829]

Naw, nothing SIGNIFICANT happened is what you mean

[@verifiedmilk]

Crazy it’s been 5 years already

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

@@red_menace1829 probably

[@matthewmayton1845]

I've said this elsewhere, but I stand by this, Bungoe really needed to be a multi-ip studio several years ago. Right now, Bungie has placed all their eggs in ine basket, and it's caused a lot of issues. Now, we have a natural ending point to a number of players around the corner, possibly leading to a greater loss of revenue, and the next ip is still a year out.

[@adjcsee4476]

For me, this will be its finale of D2. Anything after TFS idc. It’s nothing worth wasting my money for. I’ve been around since the beginning, might as well see it all end, even if I can’t play the raid.

[@905JimRaynor]

I loved Destiny2. It was a boxed game I treated like a boxed game. Bungie PR spin masters did a great job making it look like everything wrong with the game was Activision's fault. Bobby Kotick intentionally played "bad guy wrestler" which made it easy for Bungie to blame Activision.

[@evocaeden2932]

I began playing Destiny during Season of Plunder. I downloaded the game Free to Play and played a single 6 hour session. Fell in love with the aesthetic, the gunplay, even the snippets of narrative and worldbuilding I was getting. So the next day I bought the Deluxe Edition for Witch Queen, and every other expansion and pack available on Steam. Then I was overwhelmed with the utter lack of direction as to where to actually begin., I asked the friend who got me into the game how I could play the game from start to finish, and he told me it's no longer possible. He told me that there were seasons that get removed at the end of every year and that in Year 4 of the game, more than half of all the content available was just removed completely and will never be seen again. And yet here I am with over 3300 hours of Destiny 2 under my belt. I have nearly every Title I could have gotten in that time. I know for a fact that if I were one of those Destiny 1 Beta players, I would have over 15k hours in total by now. I have loved the game that much, and even in this past year I bought an Xbox to play Destiny 1 when I feel burned out on Destiny 2. And it's still enjoyable all this time later. It more than anything makes me sad that I missed out on so much that will never ever ever return. It means that onboarding for new players get worse as time goes on, never mind getting better or remaining the same, it actively gets worse as years go by. There is absolutely ZERO narrative cohesion at the end of an expansion year. There is no segue between Shadowkeep and Beyond Light. It's just "Pyramid discovered on moon, try to get inside, once inside mysterious figure tells us it is our Salvation". Then "House Salvation is on Europa, they wield the Darkness, we must learn to wield it to win. Oh btw, pyramids everywhere are fucking empty." Then come to Witch Queen "Savathun has the Light and so do her armies. Find out how it happened and why and stop her from stealing the Traveller" Fast forward to Lightfall. "The traveller is no longer above us in the Last City, we have a massive coalition force of Awoken, Vangaurd and Cabal. Absolutely NOTHING connects these three expansions anymore. The seasons did, when they were active, but now it's just taken as a given that this is how the game's world is. The New Light quest has you do a copy pasted version of the Will of Crota strike from Destiny 1, now called The Disgraced where we kill Navota instead of Omnigul. (Omnigul is even mentioned in another strike dialogue from Fallen SABER and not explained). But when we return to the tower triumphant over O̶m̶n̶i̶g̶u̶l̶ Navota, a cutscene plays telling us that everything the game just told us for the past 4 hours of the tutorial is no longer true. We wield the Darkness, some of our enemies have the Light, we work alongside some of the creatures you just spent hours destroying. And NOTHING explains any of it or ties any of it together. Every single aspect of the story requires you to ignore it all if you want to play the game. Because nothing makes sense anymore. I'm angry and I'm upset because it could have been so so so good. Seasonal Passes and removal of content was never going to be a good thing. But I suppose it doesn't matter now, Final Shape won't last long enough to even get to the third Episode.

[@tylerrondeau]

Personally, I think the “episodes” are a giant lie. My thought is a lot of people if they don’t have anything else to look forward to will leave earlier than they already are planning to. There is 0 chance Final Shape will get anywhere close to Forsaken. The game used to have a climb in power and stuff in the game you couldn’t touch for days/weeks of grinding. People are soloing raids now, it’s not the same game. It’s a shell of what it was during that era.

[@schooper.]

Haha agreed, they can put out all the flashy trailers and use all the big marketing speak to try to hook people but I really think the player numbers that it works on have dwindled. I know when I see a trailer I don’t even get excited anymore cuz I know there’s no substance behind them. And the episodes are going to be a complete joke, they will just put out whatever half assed thing the skeleton crew can manage to put together and pump eververse as much as possible.

[@marklo6283]

Bungo was the true problem after all, their executives are the reason why Destiny has become what it is today

[@iamoctonate]

Sony needs to take hard control. Bungie's "upper management" cant be trusted to manage the studio

[@ThePackman627]

Yeah I will say I wish we had the amount of new content with the extra studios from Activision. I also wish the game didn't go FTP so that base game modes (PVE strikes, PVP, gambit) would be updated more often rather than being left in the dust

[@vollied4865]

"black armory wasnt rewarding" Did you even play black armory? You got 1-2 of the EXACT weapon you wanted, random forge loot, and armor at yhe featured weekly one 😂

[@crithon]

just reminded, there's a developer crew from upstate new york that STILL TO THIS DAY, Counts Destiny 2 as one of the games they are working on. They also count Guitar Hero DS as a game they are actively developing. Activision threw in more teams to work on a project, even if they didn't have time to update their website. .... but yeah, the Guitar Hero on the Nintendo DS had this accordon on the GBA port.... wild times.

[@OnePintJohnny]

It’s the first time since curse of Osiris I have not played Destiny 2 frequently. I sense I am falling out of love of Destiny, since I have lost interest playing it. I think the issue for me stems from the live service element and the constant drip fed content to drive engagement. To me this isn’t fun anymore.

[@tackleberry9386]

The menagerie was the best activity for me because it felt like a raid, the encounters gave me raid vibes and i could focus my loot. For someone who doesnt have a lot of raids under his belt and can never get a team thats a huge experience, bungle really need to bring activities like this back

[@sam3drinks]

Gotta say, I’m glad you’re keeping the intro :)

[@RyanKelbel]

I think you kinda nailed it on the head, the DCV definitely was a tipping point, both in content, content delivery but also optics of the game and new player acquisition. The fact remains, it's a 10 year old game with 3ish years of total content you can actually play. That's a really not great look. Not only do we lose out on some really cool past content, but it makes the ability to bring in friends and stuff impossible. Which new players are what keeps this game alive, even if they leave after a few months to a year, the cycle is important.

[@lugia8888]

Game/Bungie has gone downhill ever since they left

[@NightmareCo666]

Three things I will ALWAYS remember from bungie; removing expansions/content we paid for, they don’t want to overdeliver and that when they had to cost cut and layoff staff (including the incredible music designers and community managers) when it was put to someone if higher ups were taking pay cuts, they were told they’re “not that type of company”. Shady people.

[@hansolo6831]

Bro, I did NOT need to be reminded that the split from Activision happened FIVE years ago... That shit is crazy...

[@devontavaughan9432]

everyone forgets season of outlaw :(

[@jamesohagan2529]

The menagerie was by far the best activity destiny has had,the chest was just an extra bonus

[@underscore_5450]

It was more than just fun, it also served so many gameplay purposes. It was a great way to introduce newer players to raid-like mechanics and teamwork while also being a good warmup activity for raid teams. My old group used to do a menagerie run every night before we would start running raids. It also served as a great place to stuff reissued weapons with no other loot sources. It was extremely healthy for the game and Bungie just didn't see that at all. They could've kept adding encounters and cycling loot and kept it around forever as it's own standalone mode. Not having something like that in the game anymore has really widened the gap between average and hardcore players. Raids are just so beyond most seasonal activities at this point it's like learning a whole new game for newer players.

[@Dietghostscp2107]

Fact is, Bungie needed to step it up and keep the momentum after forsaken going even after the departure. Fact is, Bungie narratively kind of just stagnated until WQ outside of lore drops. In terms of gameplay, once they hit a certain stride with seasonal activities they straight up stopped trying and that's unsurprisingly considering how I'd imagine after so many years making constant new seasons activities is ass. They game needs to mix it up year to year and try new things Bungie feels comfortable milking whatever works even if it involves to community whining, once they get it right they'll just get lazy with whatever that is too. Activision years gave them a bit more room to experiment that they kind of wasted considering we all know they were essentially working on a sequel already halfway through the first games life cycle if not a bit earlier. Then you need to consider all the personnel they've either lost or shifted around. Bungie is just a dithering mess.

[@benguyton7933]

Activistion/bungie split was the worst decision bungie couldve made with hindsight in mind

[@arnolpc]

Yay the intro is back!

[@andrewscocozza4340]

I love destiny from the bottom of my heart, but I swear I never got hooked on destiny 2 quite like destiny 1. Maybe it’s just a me problem and the fact that I was a 6th grader with a lot free time in 2014, but there was nothing like those first three years of destiny. I know my nostalgia goggles are on but I can’t seem to play destiny for more than a month or two before I take a break these days lol

[@elijahevans1158]

I feel that I was crazy addicted to destiny 1, never felt that same passion for 2.

[@crimz5544]

I look differently at Annual Pass of Forsaken. Black Armory activity wasnt best, but season itself brought loot that was having new gun models, new fresh look and interesting perk combinations. Now you are rarely having loot that is either sexy to look at (since 30th recolor of known model from vanilla d2) or feeling like its worth to chase, because we are overflooded or something similiar is craftable. Add that season itself brought optional Ada's story quest, Niobe Labs and easter eggs with emblems + very unique exotics (Lemon, Izanagi, Anarchy), where each felt unique, which is rare today. New Gambit season brought reckoning, new looking armour and shit ton of weapons. Season wasnt my cup of tea, but guns were great, so I played it with friends. Also story about Drifter and Orin was cool. Opulence and Menagerie was good, because of variety in loot, again. Calus themed weapons that actually felt like worth going after. Same with raid, another armour and weapons on top. + Tribute hall, which was best training ground for builds and DPS, instead of youtube and players which wasted hours on trying guns on random boss. My point is, even if activity would be mid and loot is great, people will find its way to grind. Probably none of new guns is either sexy or worth to get, since we are overflooded with guns that can do same. Also if its craftable, thats probably your go to, since its just easier this way. Add that writting in this game, became almost AI-generated script with nonsence one after another. Its hard to care about story anymore, where you have great danger above your heads and...nothing is happening for next 1y, we are going to be pirates baby and explore every planet, like this sense of doom is not existing. It never felt so disconnected in Annual Pass, so yeah, I do believe they are still better than overall seasons we are currently having, that barely has any substance in them. Add that you cant make same copy paste formula for next 10y with ChatGPT story for this season and expect to work every time. Im just happy that people finally realised that maybe they are better things to do with their time and money and will be back if anything will be changed (or not).

[@FaolanKitekaze]

Even as a veteran player that decided to come back starting from scratch as one last hoorah before the end of this content cycle, it's very confusing on what to do to play things in story order, especially since an introductory quest has you playing the timeline missions which spoil a bunch of the story you wont get to for hours after starting

[@kylenader7276]

You know what’s crazy is that forsaken the pinnacle of dlcs still “underperformed financially” and yet final shape has to do the same. It shows that even the best dlc didn’t mean it would guarantee people buying it

[@atomic_wait]

I think a lot of people bought it, just not nearly as many as Activision hoped. I'm sure their projections were based on the numbers D2 did at launch which were very solid by all accounts, but a lot of people were burned by that first year. They were probably expecting a good portion of D2 owners to pick it up, and a lot of new people to get brought in, but by that point they'd dug a pretty deep hole which they're still digging out of all these years later (and occasionally digging a big deeper).

[@Forcer69]

Honestly as much of a mixed bag Destiny has been since the split I’m still glad it happened. There’s a handful of reasons, but let’s use the layoffs as an example. As bad as it was for the 100 Bungie devs who got laid off last month was it honestly could’ve been worst. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that barely a month after the split Activision laid off 800 people, and with Year 1 and Forsaken underperforming I wouldn’t be surprised if Bungie would’ve been a large part of those layoffs. Also, If I’m correct, next month is also Activision’s yearly earnings. And Between the acquisition, MW3 & Diablo 4 (I’m not sure about D4, haven’t checked in a while) underperforming, and Overwatch 2 pretty much falling apart I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s another large Activision layoff next month.

[@sunshotwithanornament2475]

Agreed plus there was all the stuff involving workplace harassment and yea it definitely was a good thing for bungie to drop activision.

[@AngelSeph]

Opulence to Dawn was my favourite era. I think they would have been better off with a half/half approach where Beyond Light gets launched as Destiny 3 with all the same surrounding content while Destiny 2 gets left as it was, that way nothing gets taken but they still have a smaller game to work with and can be more flexible with what surrounding content is available without angering the community (so under utilized stuff like the EDZ, Nessus & Moon could be switched for destinations that better serve the game at the time or just to freshen things up). For all this talk about the Light and Darkness saga, it's a damn shame it'll be impossible to play it in full from start to finish since there's effectively a big hole in the middle where the Red War, Curse of Osiris, Warmind & Forsaken should be and then a bunch of little holes where seasonal stories should be.

[@StrangeChickandPuppo]

To me, Bungle's suicide has been removing the power bump. The grind for power level to get up to the soft and hard caps, is what brought be back to play every single day. Re-instituting the power bump, to me, is the single biggest thing that needs to happen in order to bring people back into the daily activity level, even if there is a lot of opposition to it. Making Iron Banner be power-irrelevant, was another huge mistake; Iron Banner has been for the entire length of Destiny been power-relevant, and they effectively castrated Iron Banner by removing power level importance. For me, Iron Banner was my jam, and I grinded power to get to the highest I could just for Iron Banner -- so not only removing power level relevance, AND even removing the bump in max power, was the two hugest mistakes they could have ever done, and did, and so most all of my playing has tapered off because there is no motivation to bother playing anymore. Putting power level grind back in, and iron banner power-relevance, would skyrocket regular daily playing for me, and surely loads others. Prove me wrong! Try it, and tell me player count doesn't go back up!

[@aaronc5582]

Didn't help Bungie was running their business like Entertainment 720 from Parks and Recreation.

[@LordSaliss]

The company would have gone under this year without the Sony deal because Bungie just pisses money away all the time.

[@MuhammadAli-qk2fe]

Let's go, The intro is back!!!

[@riskrunner4532]

I don't know how they became worse than when ACTIVISION a literal gaming boogeyman had control over them.

[@naiko8412]

They forced bungie to actually work

[@ZenTheTear]

The loss of funding and access to the extra manpower from Activision

[@kylenader7276]

@@naiko8412 ya and Bungie whined how they couldn’t fulfill on that contract when we say d2 development. Ppl always be blaming anyone else except Bungie

[@brooksmanis7782]

​@naiko8412 idc what anyone says darkbelow house of wolves taken King and rise of iron was fire Curse of Osiris poor warmind poor forsaken God tier shadowkeep it was okay beyond light poor witch queen amazing lightfall bad and I will say this shadowkeep had more content then lightfall and beyond light (exotics game modes for pvp and pve) I bet final shape will fail. Activision made them work but they gave bungie full control with 2 support studios behind them to keep up with the deadlines bungie can't keep up now and they do less.

[@lilyclaire307]

I miss new planets, secret missions (zomg, former fav exotic sniper), and raids as good at Last Wish.

[@scarixix]

Menagerie was also so great because it was a six person PVE activity not a raid. Dares is alright but environment is nowhere in comparison. For all Activision's faults, have heard time and time again that Bungie needs to be held accountable for their expenses and deadlines.

[@Whompens]

secretly hoping the “into the light” they’re doing later adds back an edited version of the red war, would be great to have a campaign for new players to run through, especially if it’s a bit introductory

[@Mondolfo17]

I wouldn’t get my hopes up if I were you. I don’t expect anything spectacular from bungo at this point.

[@anosvoldigoad3021]

Hope is the reason this game is the way it is (not saying you shouldn't hope)

[@broderickfoster2107]

Whilst I would love to see that and it would be AMAZING it’s just not reasonable to expect unfortunately for the time period it would take to develop all of that. I would expect a return of Forsaken before Red War just from a logistics standpoint since you only need Tangled Shore and Dreaming City really to do Forsaken’s campaign. If you want to really do Red War you’d need Io, Almighty, Titan, the campaign missions all to be redone in the new engine, Adventures to return or some way to explain those things without Adventures, etc. luckily they already brought back The Farm so that’s something but like the amount of work it would take to bring everything back I can’t see being reasonably done in 3 months with Final Shape still being developed. I do think that after Final Shape comes out unsunsetting for a year needs to be the focus though. Destiny 2 has had nonstop PR problems since content vaulting started. Drop old consoles if you must but find a way to bring that back and THEN you can build onto the game. It’s just not reasonable trying to get people into the game right now as it is…

[@ahmedalmuhairi81]

@@broderickfoster2107 The biggest lie they ever told was that all of the stuff got removed because of its incompatibility with the engine updates, lighting etc. Ask yourself...if that was true then why did the oldest parts of D2 not get vaulted (ie EDZ and Nessus)? It's all bs. They vaulted the stuff because they thought it'd be easier to compel people to buy new content if there wasn't a mountain of old, excellent content to dig into. They miscalculated how devastating the DCV would be to new player onboarding.

[@broderickfoster2107]

@@ahmedalmuhairi81 in all actuality I believe it was anything built with High Moon and Vicarious developers that was incompatible. (This would make logical sense as to why some things stayed and others didn’t) look at the timeline mission for Cayde’s death. In comparison to the original it doesn’t have the same lighting or effects going on. Now this could just be because it didn’t need that for the short mission, but I get the feeling it’s they don’t know how to move those things made by other studios they no longer have access to into the newer engine. EDZ and Nessus were some of the earliest stuff made for D2 (hence why they’re the biggest) and the other studios were brought in later to help with other things when Bungie couldn’t keep up with the schedule. As such it would not surprise me in the slightest if that’s why some things take so long to come back (like PvP maps for example) which were likely made by the support teams and as such it’s not as easy to bring into the engine. It’s less engine problems and more they don’t fully know how the other things work and as such moving them is harder. If you’ve ever worked on someone else’s code without them there or their notes on how everything worked it’s infuriating and damn near impossible to make it work with code of your own. Even when Beyond Light was out it was noticeable the differences between Tangled Shore and the rest of the game. A bunch of systems like Adventures haven’t been seen since either despite how well they’d work. I would bet money that things developed by the other studios is a main reason DCV happened and rather than say “we shot ourselves in the foot by leaving them behind” they simply gave the answer they did.

[@jeffreymccambridge9012]

The problem that I always find myself having when trying to pick the best era in Destiny (as a franchise) is that the game is always better in memory. I played a lot of D1 but never really felt like I understood the story and never really liked the storytelling. I liked Forsaken but really I'm nostalgic for lost zones. I loved the Moon but Shadowkeep was terrible storytelling. The more I revisit old content the more it feels disappointing. That doesn't mean that I don't like the game, it is just the long way of saying that after all these years of playing that I'm sad the game never really reached its potential. Maybe we'll get that after Final Shape

[@ahmedalmuhairi81]

I agree, for those of us who are heavily invested, that failure of D2 to reach its potential is the most disconcerting part of all of this.

[@michaelmegson2778]

The hell kinda crack you smoking if you think drifter was worse than worthy, the season was all about a public event for fucks sake.

[@quentinb734]

😂😂 paul needs help

[@amorfati4927]

@@quentinb734I’m not sure if people have noticed but Paul’s job is mainly reporting on Destiny (to my knowledge) and he knows very little about Destiny. Not knowing the name of the raid for example… or not that long ago the view the day after the Riven and her lover reveal where he said “I love the lore on this” and then proceeded to get the lore which was just in the cutscene (no lore books needed) that wasn’t even a day old completely wrong.

[@jaguargod3483]

All of the problems that the BDF blamed on Activision have just gotten worse since they parted ways.

[@decimations7224]

Paul has a mental block like PTSD about Crown of Sorrows lol. Season of Arrivals was my favorite time playing everything before the Destiny content vault.

[@hueitor1748]

INTRO BACK LESGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@DooMest]

The Destiny Content Vault cut off growth for the playerbase population. The game's story is a big lure for new players but they made it impossible to have a somewhat smooth introduction. There is no best era but instead what could have been the best is spread across several eras. Bungie management has constantly made awful moves and they refuse to learn anything. Destiny is full of fantastic potential brought by it's dev's but it's management will never let it be fully realized. I feel like this potential fooled Sony into getting Bungie and now with Bungie effectively burning away any and all good will, people are wising up and seeing Bungie had a lot of core problems left unattended. When Destiny is firing on all cylinders, there is no game like it. Sadly we won't ever get to see what that looks like when they keep thinking putting every single thing behind a paywall and locking away massive chunks of the game will be good for the health of Destiny. I can never in good faith suggest this game to anyone. Simple as that and why the future of Destiny is feeling less and less assured

[@martinewills]

What is confusing to me is that Activation's release cadence was obviously really punishing, but then they went HARD into 4 seasons a year, making content that evaporated sometimes less than 3 months after it's release. How on earth was *that* ever going to be any more sustainable? The impact of putting so much additional pressure on themselves seemed to play out by giving us the incredibly disappointing Shadowkeep release, a delayed Beyond Light, a delayed WQ, an incredibly disappointing Lightfall, a delayed TFS... Coupled with disinvestment in Crucible, Strikes, Gambit... It feels like it's been way too much for the studio to handle. Having said that, when the highs are high, it's a great time to be involved, but the clock-burning do-nothing content of 2023 has been a bummer - in the lead up to the 'finale', I wished every season had the same impact as Arrivals did in feeling like a season that truly 'meant' something. Season of the Witch came the closest to having any real story/character impact, but even that was something of a stage reset at the end.

[@stealthhunter6998]

The taken king is still my favourite part of destiny through the years.

[@John_II]

I'm just going to say that Destiny and Destiny 2 were better with Activision. What have we got since the split? 1. Shadowkeep - mostly filler, although my favorite story build up ever with Worthy and Arrivals. No new enemy race. Recycled Moon. End of new Crucible maps. 2. Beyond Light - pure filler and it came with the DCV. Stasis was fun for a time, but there was a lot more grind in the game. One new planet (Europa). No new enemy race although stasis using enemies. 3. Witch Queen - apparently a great story and raid, but more seasonal grind. No new enemies. No new subclasses. No new crucible maps. New planet (throneworld) 4. Lightfall - we all know that story sucked, and Strand seems fun, but it doesn't save the game. More seasonal grind. Like two new enemies. One new planet (Neomuna). 5. Final Shape - no new enemy race. New planet that's it. More seasonal grind. *Recycled - sorry "reprised" - raids. *Recycled weapons - and that's sunsetting and un-sunsetting. *Eververse is out of control. *Seasonal model is P2W-light. Prior to the split: 1. D2: Red War, COO and Warmind. 2. New raids and raid lairs in every season or expansion. 3. New crucible maps coming all the time. 4. New strikes all the time. 5. More Gambit maps. 6. Opulence, Drifter and Forge. 7. Eververse was under control. --> never mind all of D1. :) I could go on but I think the split did not make better games. It made grindier more content-rich games, but with a notable drop in quality at the expense of quality. I only put up with solo Bungie for two expansions - Shadowkeep and Beyond Light - two filler expansions with so much recycled and vaulted content it pissed me off so much I quit forever. Bungie needed Activision, Activision did not need Bungie.

[@EliteRvZ]

After 3.800 hours of destiny, i can say FOR SURE that destiny only got worse after activision. Yep, i said it. The game started to feel incomplete, unpolished. Even the fucking light filter got worse.

[@joelledbetter2926]

Now we go to fight the witness and then what d2 dies? For alot of us it will theyve missed a huge opprtunity to get us all hype for the next saga and instead they want to do something else but it wont be near as popular or profitable as a full expansion that gets all of us hyped up like witch queen

[@glaceonletsitgo8704]

THE INTRO IS BAAAACK

[@icarusfluffybottom899]

Paul continuing to leave out that ZERO HOUR released during Season of the Drifter. That alone means it can't be the worst season of all time. Reckoning DID suck, and Gambit is... Gambit. But there were some rad weapons that season, and Zero Hour is a classic high point of the series. You cannot in good faith argue that a season with Zero Hour is worse than that god-awful warmind season that came right after Saint came back (Worthy? I think?). That season was SO empty, and what little content it had was just... terrible. If Season of the Drifter ONLY had Zero Hour and literally nothing else, it would still be better than that season.

[@HokieAndrew]

Season of the Drifter may have been the worst season *of the three that came with Forsaken* but Worthy and Hunt are both at the absolute bottom for me. The Wrathborn Hunts were instantly stale and the Tower Defense event was poorly tuned and could only be effectively completed with a lot of open world coordination using external chat features to work around the 3-man fireteam size limits. There was an interesting weekly story drop with some Drifter and Nine lore. (3:39)

[@banksy_gg]

They waited too long before putting some love into the core playlists. 3 pvp maps coming in may after people begged them for maps for years is just not enough at this point. The customer trains are leaving the station and they aren’t coming back because of greed. The infinite money glitch has been patched I’m afraid.

[@solstia458]

There is not a single point where anything post activision has given us something that matches (especially looking at price points) to TTK, RoI, or Forsaken. Witch Queen is remembered too kindly due to it being released before the worst expansion and after a bad streak that had Shadowkeep. It may have the best campaign for sure with a solid raid but the Throne World and activities that came with it…lol. No dungeon either. 2015-18 is the best Destiny ever, but we can’t forget how bad that D2 launch was either.

[@derred723]

For me The Activision years were FAR better than post activision. The split was the beginning of the end. And what Activision wanted is STILL what I want from the game. pvp maps, new dlc. The Activision cadence is what i want. Forsaken was by far the pinnacle. Nothing since Forsaken has really got me interested. as a pvp player i'd 1000% prefer Activision and always getting new maps over non activision no maps ever.

[@eddiewelch1484]

@paul_tassi here's a thought/question for you and everyone else reading this. . . What would you guys think if bungie started doing seasons with a diablo 3 seasonal model instead? We would still need content to do obviously. But what if they were like, "this upcoming season will feature this set and this set supper buffed, so have fun." Like stasis and a couple exotics for each class that are stasis themed being op for a season then bringing it back down and doing one of the other subclasses that way the following season. I know we have the artifact mods but id like to see that built apon by making seasons fun again and having replayability. Seriously having a season of the telesto on purpose. Having laser tag again, but on purpose. Also, why dont they steal some party game ideas from halos past and give pvp some new life? There's so many things they could do to liven things up a little more. Also, theres all these destiny crossovers where destiny stuff is in other games, but bungie only puts "other game's" stuff in the eververse store and thats it. No new mobs or bosses to fight. Just micros. Feel like thats a wasted opportunity there as well.

[@jimdshea]

Apparently I got in riiiight after all the old content was deleted. And i thought I bought the "all old content pack," but that didn't turn out to be the case. The entire time was wholly overwhelming; i figured out gambit matches were cool, played for maybe 40 hours (because it is sooo smooth) and i stopped playing. I keep hearing how it was/is my buds fav game over... It's too bad i missed out in X,Y,Z. I don't know how the hell they are going to get new players if they couldn't get me to keep playing - after 40 hours!

[@pattyladd]

I give you credit, still reporting on this game.

[@derred723]

PVP was stopped being fun after the split. Forsaken brought pinnacles, not forgotten & Luna's chase. Comp was fun. Since the split, we got sunsetting and feces. So yeah. Bring back activision.

[@CarsonFrost]

I think the Activision Bungie years were better than the Bungie years despite in game purchases

[@cvig1075]

I agree

[@waynekelly2121]

At least when they were with Activision they did their job . After Activision they got lazy . Don't worry if Bungie keeps doing what they are doing with D2 Sony will get rid of all of the Bungie employees. Because the game sucks .

[@crithon]

"the helmet and the guy." LMAO!

[@liquidrufus]

Opulence was peak.

[@thedeathofaman]

I think Bungie pays their employees premium wages and creates way too much content for how much money they make. It's unsustainable. Something has to give unfortunately. Also Avengers was great to jump in when you got the itch. That was a legit shame.

[@imnotgivingyoumyname810]

I honestly think leadership is bungies problem Lucas Smith will continually mention what fans want but it always sounds so unimportant and kinda snide. I highly suspect bungie leadership doesn't understand what their fans want or their staff.

[@MrKillajay72191]

I miss getting new game modes and 5 plus new crucible maps for $60 a year.

[@Itsumi456]

Shadowsleep - Garden is overhated but honestly the rest of the expansion is pretty awful despite love for Eris. Arrivals was awesome though, as was prophecy. Beyond light - Stasis, despite being broken as all hell, was a great idea, story was honestly thin as owt but seeing Elsie again was cool and the seasons were a major step up from beforehand what with Presage and such. Witch queen - The best destiny campaign we've ever had and a stupidly memorable raid boss. Seasons were good but felt like more of the same, cos tbf they were, seraph was fire though like yoooo. Lighfall -Uhhh right so. Campaign was a complete mess, after the usual absolutely fantastic trailers (launch trailer my beloved) we got nothing good. An almost nonsensical story where you feel like a bystander in training while the real fight is halfway across the universe. Strand is cool but i personally prefer stasis. Raid was also kinda meh but the real standout this year has been the last couple of dungeons we've had which were pretty great. Seasons have felt super fillery tbh. Been hey we gotta enter the portal but not now, let's get a small piece of the puzzle every few months. Really hoping final shape has a good story with a sense of closure. If not then damn it's been a run, not a good one per say, but one filled with insanely fond memories regardless.

[@winterysaucer7456]

Yt made a video stating that this season would no longer have the use of legendary shards and to use them i did now i have none and this season sucks because i have zip now

[@robertmc05]

We need sparrow Horns to come back.

[@schooper.]

I’d rather have the highs and lows of actvision than the perpetual mediocre to lows of whatever is going on now

[@DerrickOlejownik2024]

Without a doubt for me, The Witch Queen expansion was the absolute peak. I completely no lifed the game when that came out.

[@derred723]

For me Taken King was probably the peak. Then Forsaken. I don't rate much of what else came. Witch Queen was not for me. Pvp was decimated. I came to destiny from COD. I was a pvp player so as a pvp player it's hard to say any recent dlc is great when they have zero to no improvement to pvp. It's a reason i didn't buy Witch queen. I got it free and i don't regret not buying it.

[@gagethompson8943]

It's crazy to think we got 6 raids in the first 2 years of destiny 2 on top of the 4 or 5 from d1 and since Shadow keep we've gotten 8 and half of them are just reprised raids

[@gagethompson8943]

And that's not counting secret/ exotic missions and dungeons

[@serballista]

Rise of Iron/Age of Triumph was peak.

[@derred723]

The smartest thing Sony could do is start developing Destiny 3. Then give yourself another real product. i've long ago stopped spending any money on Destiny stuff. Final Shape included. it will be a massive wait and see. And i don't even have my playstation plus account anymore so it'd mean $50 on top renewing that. That's a heavy cost for a game that's gonna get content vaulted.

[@jimrox74]

The intro came back. All is right again

[@ammod4827]

what's probably the saddest part of all this is that I honestly dont feel like bungie is in a better place than before the splitting from ACTIBLIZZ.

[@bells5385]

When bungie said eververse is what gave us an exotic mission I knew this game was going downhill. Go give eververse money if you want more content. Being freed from Destiny was the best thing to happen to me gaming. The bungie we loved is gone and they aren’t coming back

[@samzilla567]

Activision was always the scapegoat for a lot of the problems that have plagued Destiny for many years now. Yes, Activision did force the creation of Destiny 2, but they were not at fault for the horrendous development of the game, and the many bizarre decisions that came to the gameplay and story of Vanilla Destiny 2. All of that was the fault of Bungie.

[@Notsram77]

I quit playing just after Taken King, so I have no idea what 'the helmet and the guy' is but it sounds hilarious.

[@darrow_andromeda915]

Damn. Thought the intro was gone for good.

[@beatzbyjay24]

Bungie needed Activision the quality of content releases plunged way down after the split and has not fully recovered.

[@karthas_tgg]

I am simply baffled as to Bungie's plan was. Destiny 2 is 6 years old now, thats old. The most obvious answer is to work on a sequel, but that doesnt look like it is being worked on. It seems they wanted to just keep releasing content for D2 until the well ran dry, thats fine. But it is your only source of revenue, so you either need to ensure you are delivering amazing content, or you need other IPs for revenue. Idk how someone fumbled this so bad. I think the higher ups at Bungie were to busy sniffing their own farts to see the cracks in D2 and their plans.