Destiny 2's Last City & the people in it need more purpose. The divide between Guardians & Citizens.

[@MazHazPazzaz]

It was a small detail, but in D1, I loved how patrols came from someone different everytime. Sometimes you'd pick up a beacon, and it was FWC asking for vex tech to help in their experiments. Others it was the Vanguard, asking for you to clear the area so a Strike team could pass through safely. Another it might be Banshee needing materials from a High Value Target. There was always something to do to help the city.

[@JOHNSMITH-vx5yz]

Yeah you gotta love that banshee guy. 👍👍👍👍👍

[@erickrueda16]

@@JOHNSMITH-vx5yz if you think he's a good person don't look up his lore...

[@vonn00_]

@@erickrueda16 what happened?

[@erickrueda16]

@@vonn00_ you really want me to spoil it ?

[@byMystiic]

@@vonn00_ he is clovis brey

[@zachchartier570]

To be honest, I don't really feel like a guardian of anyone when playing the game. All the focus is on the loot and the characters that we do interact with are either already exceptional (other guardians/special characters) or aliens. The Last City just feels like this abstract concept and I don't think I've EVER fought an enemy with the thought "I must protect the city" or "I can't let these enemies menace innocent people" in my head. In fact, I feel MORE attached to the Eliksni in their district than any humans/post-humans in the City.

[@Techhunter_Talon]

The only times we've ever wandered the streets of the City was during the Season of the Arrivals live event, when we fought the Cabal in the final mission of the Red War campaign, and when we raced around an abandoned district during the Scourge of the Past raid. That's it.

[@covadiin9876]

@@Techhunter_Talon and the 2018 Solstice starting mission, the one where we saw the Tower before it was destroyed.

[@Garebear_]

Same. I feel much more like a Guardian to the Eliksni than humanity. Maybe because they're new in the tower and I feel bad for them. I think back in Vanilla D2 I was more open to the civies in the tower but now they're just background noise at best.

[@YoungRin-ms]

It would be cool to play as the Eliksni

[@itsKyrex]

only time i felt like we were doing something was killing crota and then in turn, Oryx, but only because the implications of losing were so huge, other than that, yea nothing

[@silentnise1364]

This is why I always enjoyed going to the farm. Being able to just roam the city and buy a bowl of ramen would be nice.

[@ethanklein6131]

It’d be cool if (like in destiny 1) you could buy something (like ramen) from the citizens of the city and it would give you a small buff like an xp boost

[@companymen42]

Yea I always have tons of glimmer and buying stuff like ramen would be cool.

[@garrettviewegh677]

That’s one thing I liked about Hawthorne. She may not be as relevant now as a vendor, but for the Red War campaign, I felt she symbolized a part of humanity that the Vanguard had never seen. That people of the city are just as capable as any Guardian. Yes, Guardians have the light. But the city, and the EDZ, is full of human survivors that never gave up no matter how dire things got. I ended up empathizing and understanding her frustration and reluctance to work with the Vanguard at first, she felt as though they failed in their duty to protect them. To me, Hawthorne is a much needed human side to the story.

[@gardenwitch117]

Exactly like have a loading zone like the botza district and just have ambient speech and little things to do

[@Rex_Stuph]

Even just opening the 3 restricted streets in Trostland would be nice. I have no idea why they've been closed, it's all loaded in Lake of Shadows.

[@TheAsylumCat]

I would like to remind everyone that Hawthorne has basically been ignored since d2 vanilla. The most recent mention of her is in the lore book for transmog.

[@darthbane5676]

TBH I’m kinda mad they never did anything with the farm after the Red War, eventually removing it from the game altogether. How many people are still living outside the city?

[@f1sh__]

I miss the farm!

[@joshuavidrine889]

Hawthorne also fought for the Titans during the Guardian Games too.

[@ThePowerOfOneThePowerOfTwo]

They really should’ve killed her off and brought her back as a guardian. I remember her going with Cayde-6 to the tangled shore in the comic book but they really haven’t done jack shit with her and it’s just disrespectful.

[@davikaaful]

@@ThePowerOfOneThePowerOfTwo Zavala did give Hawthorne the honorary Guardian title for her services in the Red War and afterwards serves as a liaison between the people and the guardians. I feel her being this mortal voice for the people helps make her unique rather than just making her another immortal guardian who claims to serve the people but doesn't know what it really is like to truly be mortal.

[@peanut354]

I hope we get more times like the event at the end of arrivals where we roamed around the city during the event.

[@supsoul7235]

Omg yess!

[@jxmint4458]

I know right. One day I would like to go to the heart of the city, see the people and what it's like. It feels so far away. Really interesting to see what stuff Is like in there

[@joshualemon8422]

Or something like in the beginning of red war defending or just dealing with crime would be interesting

[@joshuavidrine889]

@@joshualemon8422 Imagine being a criminal in the City, and you spot a house that looks like a nice quick break-in for some stuff to pawn off for glimmer. You slip inside, wander swiftly from room to room collecting trinkets and things you can carry that look valuable, until you hear a gun click behind you. Spinning around, you unload a freshly stolen handgun from the previous room into the homeowner until they drop, then make for an exit as fast as you can. But before you can escape, there's the home owner again standing in front of the door; They are a Guardian, freshly risen from your fatal gunshots, and are pissed that you're trying to rob them. I imagine that criminals are either very careful in the Last City, or short-lived. Never know if that person you murdered could rise from the dead and hunt you down.

[@elementz018]

Or the first solstice of heroes, which was located near the beginning part of that mission next to a large water channel. But yeah, that event was seriously awesome

[@jonathansuarez9019]

I always thought it was weird that during the endless night and the week where taken blights were everywhere, the civilians that work in the tower had nothing to talk about. No concerns, no interaction, nothing

[@Wulfspyder]

I kinda wonder if the player Guardian was the only one that could see them. Like our usage of Stasis gives us a connection to the Darkness that lets us see below the surface level of the Endless Night.

[@davidlanceescandor1310]

@@Wulfspyder or the developers can't be half assed to match lore and story together.

[@TheDuke659]

“Did Ghaul always dream of a republic? What terrible worm burrowed into his heart that he would betray my love and plot against me?”

[@ThatPyukumuku]

@HydraCorex The amount of work that would require is more than that of an expansion If you're fine with not getting an expansion for 2, maybe 3 years, then go ahead

[@revanf3719]

@HydraCorex Just give us a bar as a social space with a jukebox and a dancefloor

[@samuelmcl.9474]

@HydraCorex “bungie hire me please” -_-

[@colinwilliams3459]

@HydraCorex That would be so taxing from a development standpoint that would mean no seasonal content or expansion for years. It would be the end of Destiny. And for what? A house? A mediocre social space?

[@Prnnce]

@HydraCorex idea guys like you are dime a dozen on any social media platform I hope you know

[@ubermaster134]

Seeing the concept art back in D1 made me want to roam around the city with civilians around

[@jamor105]

This one hit home for me, I've always wanted since destiny 1. For my character to be able to walk in the city where I would be able to see the people that we protect

[@goofyfurball7311]

Random, but I love how there are several 12-15 minute videos that Byf starts by saying they're "a little longer than usual". Today we have nearly half an hour that starts with "I wanted to take a moment". Not complaining about the half hour, just think it's funny.

[@f1sh__]

I never noticed until I read this and I laughed haha

[@ChaosAtlantis33]

I actually never noticed lol

[@MrDemian0666]

I have been saying since day 1 that we need to see the city. even in cut scenes. We need to care about something aside from loot. They really dropped the ball by not having the load screen between the city and the helm being a train that moves around the wall and shows you the city. Now I will watch the video. heh.

[@LegiamasC-OnTwitta]

No. Me want gun.

[@-MaDkInG-]

The lore stuff is cool, but is anyone going to talk about that he outplayed those players at the start with a Ratking?

[@syd6654]

Rat king is highly underrated, cmm

[@thekhoifish0146]

Rat Gang master race

[@Ja.floppa]

@@syd6654 major cap detected

[@Ja.floppa]

@@thekhoifish0146 bozo

[@Vegito_Fanpage]

Rat King was my baby before beyond light. Its actually incredibly good for mobility builds, just equip it and some sort of shoulder charge on Titan and go for it.

[@naveensensei8220]

This is honestly so true. I wanna interact with the people I slay Gods for

[@Phoenix6942-7]

Exactly

[@naveensensei8220]

Like imagine walking around someone's like "wow that gun is magnificent" and your ghost is like "yeah we know, got it by killing a alien death God that was threatening our very existence..turned him into a gun..boss shit" 😂😂

[@iponce2]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[@fuzzy3383]

@@naveensensei8220 some civilians will compliment your armor. “I want the kind the hunters use” and “looking good hunter!”

[@dilospino]

@@fuzzy3383 And maybe even play with some kids! Like, get close, press a button and start mimicking your equipped class's super and see how the kids react and hear them laugh, gigle and run.

[@turtleboi8492]

Yo but fr, how cool would it be to walk around a section of the city like we can the Eliksni quarter and explore different aspects of the city's current state.

[@AugustusBohn0]

we know more about Eliksni culture than City culture

[@samparsons5867]

Honestly I would be happy if we could explore More of the city and look for scannables. I wouldn't necessarily want quest or vendors in the human sections of the cities. The only NPC that I would like to have a vendor for would be mithrax himself so far

[@TheSnikers111]

Mortality and our inability to see any consequences of death is what truly divide Guardians and everyone else.

[@Scripzure]

Except, Guardians CAN die. Look at Cayde.

[@cloudstrifed1]

I'm gonna be honest on this one...I feel more for the fallen in the last city that I do the actual last city itself. It doesn't even need to be a major vendor location like the farm I just want an area I can chill in with some random npc dialogue and models and I'd still feel like that's enough to make the city feel a little more important and lived in.

[@JACorvin]

I’d love to do missions that actually visibly change life of the inhabitants of the City.

[@desantatao9815]

The Division 1 and 2 does that pretty well. If you do the side missions, settlements are upgraded over time, more survivors populate the settlements and characters you save appear in the settlements. The game does make you feel like you are making a difference for suvivors

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

@@desantatao9815 dammit, I was going to say that.

[@Ja.floppa]

@@LoneSilverW0lf catch this ratio bozo

[@ctrlcf]

It was definitely good seeing them attempt this with SotS and the degrading Vex reality around us

[@skipventure5158]

Counter: The Endless Night

[@Skull35]

"What is our purpose?" "You pass butter!" "Oh my God..."

[@seekerofaw]

Thats the way i feel now with missions and getting those season rewards. "What is my mission" "Do missions that dosent effect anything around you" "OH GOD"

[@Skull35]

@@seekerofaw especially later in the season, like now, when we're not getting more lore, we're just supposed to keep doing the same missions.

[@Jersus856]

"Welcome to the club, pal."

[@Scripzure]

"You bank motes."

[@KoPT01]

They should bring back that area of the last city that they used for the Arrivals finale. It would make the city feel more expansive. I can't believe they made a huge social space just to never use it again. That's a lot of work for a one-time event.

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

I can believe it. They made Red War, Curse of Osiris and Warmind, all of those environments, all of those activities and maps, all of those stories and experiences (especially the part where we're actually WEAK after Ghaul takes our Light away), and instead of moving to Destiny 3 and allowing all of that content to live on to be replayed and appreciated and relevant to Destiny's legacy, they ripped it out and tossed it in the vault...with Guardians everywhere justifying it because "hard drive space," because "QA agility," because "it's old who cares lol." I agree, it'd be awesome if that area was actually USED for more than just one live event Bungie only did to trend-chase games like Fortnite. It's tragic.

[@jafango]

@@RedShadowOfSaturn dude the game was taking up 100gb space on ps4, and be honest how often are you gonna play those campaigns? Youre tripping if you think that you would replay them more than once

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

@@jafango First of all, it wasn't taking up 100gb on PS4...it was close to 164gb with all the DLCs through Shadowkeep, ;-) And if you think campaigns aren't worth rerunning, then do yourself a favor and fuck right off? Campaigns SHOULD be memorable. They SHOULD be worth rerunning because of the moments that occurred, the set pieces that took place, the pivotable changes in mood and momentum between different factions and forces, the emotional exchanges between beloved characters. LITERALLY providing the reason why characters even exist and aren't just robotic bounty and gear kiosks. Campaigns SHOULDN'T be content that the community collectively justifies tossing out because "old shit who cares." I mean, I assume if you're okay with them tossing whole campaigns, strikes, raids, pvp maps, patrol zones, etc., in closet, you're fine with them charging $10 every few months for Seasonal Content, which will ALSO inevitably vanish? Why are you and so many other Guardians OKAY with a game company charging for content that's literally temporary? And don't give me that line of "well ackshually...TOS says they can pull the plug any time, so uh yeah, all games are technically temporary." That should be unacceptable. And by the way, definitely take a few minutes to look up how many people have been replaying, or are CURRENTLY playing, Destiny 1 right now. Game still has a pretty active playerbase. Know why? Because the content is still available. It's what should've happened with Destiny 2. But...Bungie went this way.

[@jafango]

@@RedShadowOfSaturn lol ive played d1 quite recently and its not as active as you think, legit cant find people for strikes lol, and people play destiny for the loot lol, and i mean yeah the campaigns are cool but the whole gameplay loop of destiny is getting loot not completing missions. Yeah sunsetting content hurts but again, maybe you only play campaigns but i can guarantee you only a small minority replays old campaigns. And oh no content i payed for years ago is gone now boo hoo, shit goes away all the time, games die, natural cycle of things lmao.

[@jafango]

@@RedShadowOfSaturn and i would much rather paying 10 bucks for content that will last me a few months then going without content

[@Blindluck92]

Personally, I've always just imagined that my Guardian has a flat in the City, actually living among them.

[@notLura]

I mean, every guardian should have a personal quarter somewhere in the tower or the city. Could be a cool place to add in an expansion, to customize and make it your own

[@roadburn1247]

Lore wise they do, the crown splitter lore tab shows normal human cleaning out what is potentially Sloane’s apartment in the city

[@doktorsmiles2034]

@@notLura Lore says that Guardians have at least a cabin or something like that in the tower as long as there known to the vanguard. But i can imagine they arent allowed to go down to the civilians. Cause of interstellar deseases they could bring to the people. But thats just a random thought. Would be fun to have a room to design for yourself with trophys hanging around like Taniks head, a piece of sanctified mind, maybe stuff from d1 victorys for those who got them.

[@gatorwarrior7557]

@@doktorsmiles2034 my titan would probably have a wall of guns, statues of lions, and other trophies

[@Blindluck92]

@@doktorsmiles2034 Dude, I'd feel weird putting Taniks's head on the wall. I'd have to replace it every time he comes back.

[@willl5659]

Hey, you remember when Bungie called this an MMO? Make the city a full location and a hub location where lots of people can meet. Have all the vendors, have a few secrets, and best of all, an INGAME LFG. How has this not been made a thing yet?

[@rohncarver3585]

Storage space

[@anonuser4806]

Cause Density isn't an MMO no matter how loudly Bungle yells that it is. It's not. It's a glorified first person looter shooter, with SOME MMO like features.

[@voidimperial1179]

@@anonuser4806 Facts. Destiny is not an MMO.

[@Haggispk]

Dev time

[@CMacK1294]

@@anonuser4806 So when do we sue for false advertising then?

[@JM1992]

I would love to visit some spot in the city. The tower so lifeless, it boring.

[@VindensSaga]

it is yeah

[@Codename_brutas]

Exatly

[@captainstu]

With the destiny app, there’s even less reason to explore or visit the tower - apart from receiving rewards and interacting with the occasional vendor - there’s nothing.

[@Nexuish]

Eh, I’d really only care about this if the faction system was popped into it. I don’t mean the Consensus Factions ( is rather roll them into a single faction called the Consensus ) but I’m talking about factions in lore that have armor sets named after them. Let my Guardian your a Praxic Order staging area, a pilgrim guard entry gate, etc and then align myself with them.

[@coffeethief7550]

I miss factions so much there is so much wasted potential there

[@innocentbystander3317]

Still, faction rallies would be nice to have back, or expanded upon. Especially now that FWC seems to be trying to break consensus. I wonder how Lakshmi would feel if no guardians (except maybe Sus-Osiris) supported them anymore and everyone went to Dead Orbit or New Monarchy?

[@guinevereemilysummers9945]

@@innocentbystander3317 Hate to break it to you, but New Monarchy are scheming with FWC.

[@thefatherinthecave943]

I wouldn’t mind if there were more factions that weren’t just morally and structurally objectable. What city factions do we have right now? Corrupt microcorporations, some guy why wants to bring back divine light of kings, *for himself* (funny considering he’s mortal), formerly cool faction currently led by a racist demagogue, and people who want to leave. These _were_ cool, but now they’re boring. There’s no way the same 3 factions could possibly retain power through everything that happened to us over the course of the game

[@innocentbystander3317]

@@guinevereemilysummers9945 That's why Dead Orbit is the only orbit.

[@nikkishocker1]

I still wish players could walk around sections of the city to do other social activities like a real mmo, like play mini games together or have a big marketplace where we can use a player driven economy or get side quests

[@noahdoyle6780]

ngl, I'd like a Destiny fishing mini game.

[@samparsons5867]

I wouldn't mind if the civilians offer bounties to play in those mini games. Like how the tower vendors have bounties for doing activities in strikes, the crucible, and gambit. Also, if they were any quest that need to be picked up they could be finished within the city. They wouldn't need to leave the last City to complete them. We have vendors in the tower that make us leave the tower anyway.

[@nikkishocker1]

@@samparsons5867 oooooh what if citizens of the city placed bets on guardians in the crucible. We hear them talk about how they watch the "feed" so it would be cool if like players got points attached to them based on their skill or K/D or whatever and whoever defeats them gets a bunch of xp or something lol

[@samparsons5867]

@@nikkishocker1 maybe the civilians can offer additional xp and civilian ranks. In season 15 we are getting a new ranking system for the strikes activity. Why not for the civilians? Ha! I have imagined a whole new vendor system made by us lol

[@alecsmith8341]

A player driven economy would be the single worst thing ever. Traded weapons would be such a pinch point for scams and such

[@riskrunner4532]

You know I'd love to explore the city of course not all of it but a fun little section of life... Because well the tower we have now kinda lacks life really

[@camcicero947]

Wym I sit there for hours watching the ai walk and stare at different boxes and sometimes stand in groups

[@dragonslayer0486]

@@camcicero947 but after years of watching the same patterns, same dialoge, and same people it gets stale and boring

[@supsoul7235]

Some wise words for an arc weapon.

[@camcicero947]

@@dragonslayer0486 whattttt noooo I love hearing "checking, checking, checking" every time I talk to the postmaster

[@DustoVonSusto]

@@supsoul7235 hey what's that supposed to mean? Implying arc weapons aren't as intelligent as others are?

[@william0j]

I had never thought of this until now. But, I now want to know what the Citizens of the Last City think about all of the guardian corpses that are constantly raining down the tower...

[@Wulfspyder]

It just becomes visual background noise at some point. Helps the corpses are removed via the Ghosts' reviving up in the Tower. People were definitely freaking out for the first week.

[@Dizarrey]

In one lore tab (can't remember which, one of the ghost stories I think) a ghost mentioned that they can bring back their guardians before they die from a fall, so i imagine all of our falling deaths are more our ghost just transmatting us back up before we actually rain down on the civilians heads.

[@GlitchManOmega]

I kinda just want Hawthorne to actually DO something in the game for the first time since the vanilla campaign...

[@NobodyAwsum]

Some story interaction WOULD be nice. Though, seems i feel that way about a lot of remaining characters now, petra, failsafe, DEVRIM HAS NEVER REALLY BEEN IN THE STORY hes just forever in his little church, we even barely get zavala interaction anymore. We got a bunch in arrivals, and at the start of chosen, but osiris was more involved with caitil than zavala was and he was the damn challenger like wtf. Im still waiting for elsies little fish thing to officially show up as well.

[@icesoul17z]

Imo the farm should have always been the second city. Something that built up over the years as the game progresses. Could you imagine if we saw it go from some small hamlet to an actual town? If we had a mission where we had to defend it? If it had its own six fronts or twilight gap moment. It would symbolize humanity for the first time truly fighting back and rebuilding outside of military post. It could add drama as resources must be managed between the two. As perhaps some go there to escape the rules and regulations of the Vanguard.

[@georgebeswick7549]

I kinda wish that we had something similar to what Digital Extremes have done with Cetus and Fortuna.

[@artyjaywolf]

Yes, absolutely! Shout out to Warframe

[@dreadheadedguardian]

I wish that Bungie added more life to the tower but still at the end of the day even in Cetus and Fortuna you just fast travel to where you want to go to, because convenience > reality for the overwhelming majority of people.

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

​@@dreadheadedguardian You're right that fast travel is convenient, and that convenience means a lot of people don't pay attention to the concepts being presented in this video...but it doesn't stray from the fact that Destiny sidesteps how crucial it is to demonstrate the consequences of the actions of evil doers, exactly how much they've affected the world, and why exactly WE need to stop them, outside of, like...loot and shit. Not only that, but each of the vendors in Fortuna has their background, their own style, their own boisterous personalities, that go above and beyond the creativity of ANYONE in the Tower. From Little Duck's shady business, Ticker's fabulous exuberance, Rude Zuud being "schizophrenic" and cranky, Thursby's RHYMING because he's a salesman!! Hell, even the Ventkids defining what it means to be little urchins with their own slang and language! It's all so imaginative, and their monologues when they greet you are exceptional. Zuud's regaining the memory of her sisters during the Exploiter battle on Deck 12 was really great as well. And all of this is an illustration of the result of Corpus greed and commerce, Sentient experimentation, and like Byf is describing...the "human" cost and consequence of what "the bad guys" do. ONE listen to "We All Lift Together" does more to demonstrate that human cost he's talking about in THIS video than 7 years and hundreds of dollars of Destiny content. If you haven't seen it, Byf did a sponsored video specifically about Fortuna, before the Deadlock Protocol quest launched, that perfectly illustrates this. Right here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHzMhnmaadVqoNU

[@blank3865]

If you have seen what Digital Extremes is doing with the story of Warframe from the recent TennoCon. You tell that it is possible to play as another character that isn't your own, especially if the game is in the state of being "constantly online".

[@connorthegunlovingeek7465]

This video only just launched and I've only just started watching, but I agree with the video based on the title

[@Phoenix6942-7]

Same

[@digiwobble9309]

i feel like this is a great concept and thought about the connection between us and the city. so far he only thing we've seen as a "choice" was with the drifter. and the only thing it did so far was him either calling us a snitch now or brother/sister still.

[@No_Feelings]

Honestly the event at the end of arrivals where we walked through the streets of the city was cool as hell. We need more stuff like that.

[@gaynarchist]

IMO Bungie missed a big opportunity in D2 year one to have the "new tower" be actually in the city rather than just a platform on a lower part of the wall.

[@walshy1760]

I think random and uncommon NPCs in the tower being like “Hey Guardian ,have a second” and offering a universal patrol that gives larger than most XP would be a cool touch Accept and help them out Ignore and decline and maybe anothee Guardian will help them out

[@RubysWrath]

I mean we essentially play our roles fully. We run around killing everything growing stronger and competing without thinking of anything else other than the fight. The breaks we get are just that. Breaks. Even our fun activities involves more action and death than a normal person can survive.

[@toastybaths573]

We’re like saiyans lmao

[@pimpernel666]

This is beautiful! We can see the picture of Cayde in the Ramen shop. Can we buy a bowl and interact with the shop owner that was featured in the lore?

[@kmanalpha453]

Remember when we were lightless for like 1 whole mission....good times

[@SPARTANLuis067]

Had to scroll way too far for this one. That was about the only non-raid mission I ever felt mortal and desperate. A very cool feeling that we never get enough of.

[@themadhatter9509]

The thought of Cade having a group of mates he would play cards with on the regular is amazing and I wish we had that, then the thought of seeing their reaction after his loss… it would have definitely put even more feelings into his death.

[@Noremac023]

I’ve always said that Destiny needs, at some point, needs to start exploring stories of how humanity is rebuilding. The Last City is the low-point, Guardians now exist so humanity should be spreading out again.

[@alaricganger7281]

The thing is lore wise we’ve tried. The issue now is that the enemies of humanity are entrenched against the last city, and swarm any attempts to expand. Now with the Darkness in system again, we’re focused on disrupting major activities by the Black Fleet, it’s minions, and other VIPs.

[@Saberfighterx]

That’s what I think I mean think of how dangerous it is for humanity as a whole if everyone is in the same place

[@silverthehero1295]

Imagine a Destiny horror game. Average person trying to escape Hive territory with Thrall as common enemies and the average Knight as a boss.

[@MacDanels]

They really missed these opportunities when they brought in Hawthorne and didnt do much with her after the red war

[@zelky1394]

Hawthorne more like, Whothorne! Am I right lads?

[@garrettviewegh677]

That’s what I was thinking. I’m surprised Byf didn’t mention Hawthorne once on this topic.

[@adamchu2001]

Hawthourne: You killed Ghaul!

[@Ja.floppa]

I really Missed this ratio ima give u

[@sunshotwithanornament2475]

Literally everything you said just sounds really awesome it definitely shouldn’t be a priority to add these things but this is how destiny could evolve after main issues are solved

[@kiidamoori]

I do love the idea of being able to walk the city streets and interact with the people, buy and sale items and get side quests just like in a traditional mmorpg

[@TiJoe6]

This is how I’ve always felt. I think they need to explore ways to portray “normal people” and the Last City. If it needs to be through other media or different games in the same universe, so be it.

[@gervasiocampana6217]

I can already imagine the vendors we could see in the City. Perhaps there would be the technician from the Season of the Hunt sparrow lore tab, with the ability to upgrade legendary sparrows to exotic speed, or even selling unique non-eververse sparrows. Maybe there'd be a tailor, who makes unique class items. Perhaps an Eliksni of the House of Light who settled in the City could build unique shells for your Ghost. Possibly an FOTC representative selling bounties similarly to Spider's bounties, and also selling unique FOTC weapons and armour mods.

[@TehBluPanda]

I’m currently writing a D&Destiny campaign and I’m revisiting this video to get ideas for more down-to-earth activities they could do that explores their relationship with the people they’re guarding and it’s a great help!

[@hithere5553]

I really want an ODST type auxiliary for the guardians. So lame seeing frames for all the hard work. Regular humans deserve the spotlight every once in a while.

[@williamcrisp6032]

And die instantly because the environment of almost every plant we got to is completely hostile to humans. And also it's stated that it takes 100 Redjack frames, which have no sense of pain or injury to kill a single Hive Knight. How well do you think humans that can feel pain would do against one?

[@hithere5553]

@@williamcrisp6032 well that’s probably because they’ve got green tier weapons. Equip a squad with full purple gear and they’ll be a competent auxiliary force.

[@williamcrisp6032]

@@hithere5553 Except that item rarity is not an in universe thing beyond how actually physically rare the weapon is, it is an entirely gameplay related construct. In universe a common hand cannon is just as powerful as a legendary one, its just that the common on is, well more common

[@stephenjenkins7971]

@@williamcrisp6032 Well, like in Halo, we can have humans work together in squads and use advanced weaponry and vehicles to secure sectors and land for expansion.

[@camcicero947]

@@stephenjenkins7971 why do that and risk the very few left in humanity when u can just send immortal gods or robots?

[@1zincinc]

I’ve had somewhat similar thought to these ideas. Personally I would love to Bungie to make a “Destiny Legends” game series that focuses on different characters and stories throughout the Destiny timeline. Maybe you’re a newly resurrected Zavala in a survival like game where you have to gather supplies and craft weapons and tools to make it to the Traveler. Maybe you’re a soldier in the Battle of Six Fronts fending off the Fallen invasion. Maybe you’re the Drifter fighting with the Dredgen and it’s an Assassin’s Creed like game. Maybe you’re the Saint taking his revenge on the Fallen houses. The possibilities for story telling are limitless!

[@atsukana1704]

They could even have small public events where you act like the pilgrim guard shepherding some civilians across an area trying to protect them

[@chrisedwardsjr3560]

Byf coming up with ways to implement aspects of mass effect into destiny is literally the wettest of dreams

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

I coulda sworn, before Destiny 1 originally launched, that people assumed it would have storytelling and depth like Mass Effect. It's really heartbreaking it didn't turn out that way...

[@Narakiomal]

You know what would kill a few birds (I'm sorry Saint) with one stone? If we had player housing that could be used to both explore the City and give us a bunch of cosmetic rewards that don't have to deal with any of the sandbox bits of the game.

[@imcpilotmichaelbell1185]

0:58 OH LORD!!! That was too close for comfort!

[@DredgenStorm]

16:28 Byf my man I was NOT prepared to have my mind blow and my world view shattered tonight. Damn good job and keep up the fantastic work!!!

[@TheCasualMark]

We’ve had more face time with Eliksni than those of the last city.

[@creaturefeaturecosplay]

Something like the quest with the Eliksni, the kid, the Wrathborn, and Saint would be amazing. Ever since the Eris's Fireteam sidequests in Shadowkeep I've more like that, where you get to do things for people and really feel like you're making a difference in someone's life. Giving Eris the good memories of her friends back felt so fulfilling, and I would love more quests like that. Having the Eliksni mixing in with humanity really does seem like a great opportunity for some "small" but rich little stories

[@ivegonefishing482]

I agree that there needs to be some sort of gravity given to our Guardian's relationship with those who are mortal. I also agree that many of the approaches you stated would be logistical nightmares for the devs. Perhaps a simpler solution is in the storytelling. The Red War campaign addressed this topic somewhat with the introduction of Hawthorne and the moments of helplessness our own character experienced right after having the light ripped from them. Throughout Destiny's history our Guardian hasn't been able to form many relationships with characters who aren't guardians. Bringing more lightless characters to the forefront of the storytelling and giving us a reason to care for them and their safety would be a great start. I could imagine either a new or existing lightless character chastising us for our blatant disregard for the gift of life. Having said character either die (perhaps in an attempt to save you) or have other people die around them and how they react would further cement the tragedy of mortality that our character has forgotten. Imagine how people would feel if Amanda Holiday's safety was suddenly in jeopardy and there was a real tangible possibility that she could die if we didn't help her. Not only can the story telling highlight our character's perception of death and how it differs from mortals it can also make us reflect more on our duties as protectors. To this point we are so used to being praised by the people of the last city that we have frankly at times taken their trust for granted. Imagine in a Lysander/Concordat sort of story arc how we would feel if suddenly the very populous we were used to hearing praise and gratitude from suddenly turned to fear and mistrust with children who instead of running up to meet you cower behind their parents who themselves revile your presence. Storytelling such as this can definitely help to bring about this narrative connectivity between the protector and the protected.

[@ManiaMac1613]

Sparrow racing. In between races, you could explore the race arena, speak to the crew and management of the racetracks. You could have an activity that players would be interested in that also features opportunity to interact with citizens or start quests with some good worldbuilding and character-driven storytelling.

[@theoldworldwarrior451]

I always appreciate how much effort go into these videos

[@papasfritas3]

So you want people of the city to have a purpose… like revolting against the vanguard? BYF IS SAVATHUN CONFIRMED

[@captainstu]

The fact that exploring The Last City is not an option is so underwhelming, the literal reason Guardians are a thing is to serve and protect the very city you can’t even access. Even opening a district would give the game so much more depth and reason to play.

[@benatlas6587]

"Do choices about the missions"...Soooo kind-of like the option to spare Mithrax on titan?

[@NobodyAwsum]

Or the drifter quest? We still get seperate dialogue depending on your choices from the drifter. In passing and in gamemode. I feel like that was them testing the waters, but too many people regretted their decision so they didnt try again.

[@Clarity2188]

@@NobodyAwsum those choices no longer matter matter, Drifter always treats you like you've sided with him despite how I didn't

[@GoogleAccount-jn5qb]

@@Clarity2188 wrong. My friends are still called snitches every time they play Gambit.

[@Clarity2188]

@@GoogleAccount-jn5qb you're being lied to, get new friends

[@jermasbiggestfan7796]

Recall in D1, the mission to rebuild another Gjallarhorn took place not necessarily in the City proper, but on another portion of the wall/an abandoned tower. It was very interesting, seeing another section of recently human occupied areas besides The Tower. Lots of cool lore was there about the Faction Wars as well.

[@paradoxlaboratories8005]

Personally, I’ve never liked that the current tower is still called “The Tower”, since the actual tower fell and is still in ruins. I’ve always felt that the social space we now have that is named the tower should have instead been named “The Wall”.

[@parkeryancey7512]

I really liked how they did this in the Division 2. I really didn't play that much of it, but i was still invested in upgrading the various settlements and listening to the people's conversations, and seeing more children run around as I made further advancements, showing without telling me that it was safer for them to run around and be happy, and even though I still couldn't interact with the vast majority of the civilians, it was an atmosphere that I really enjoyed and felt I had an active presence in.

[@lastwymsi]

The retaking of the city was my favorite part of the red war campaign, because we got to fight through the streets of the city and actually SEE IT. We pretty much never gets to see it since. The EDZ is close-ish? But thats it.

[@VindensSaga]

I would love to see more of the city, roaming around in the city.

[@lozo0753]

I've been thinking about this for a while now and Solstice of Heroes is an event meant to celebrate the actions of all guardians. The new mode I've thought about could be called "Stories of old" and it's basically Eva Levante telling us the stories in lore, this fits her grandmother like appearance and personality. Stories of old will enable us to see the events of different light users in the universe of Destiny. Imagine the Battle of Six Fronts and you play and Anna Bray, or maybe the battle of Shin Malphur and Dredgen Yor and you can play as Shin Malphur, or even the last moments of the Iron Lords in the SIVA replication chamber and you get to play as Saladin. I personally fell in love with Destiny because there are so many amazing stories and its a shame that not everyone reads about it.

[@seekerofaw]

When destiny first came out, the mass effect storyline game play was what i was expecting to happen with destiny.

[@schultestyla]

Probably not intentionally but the fact that we interacted more with people in the red war and now years later guardians are once again in the ivory tower. People are becoming alienated from guardians and with Lakshmi now grasping for power that could be a great story going forward

[@huntermcmahon9049]

Do you think a lightless guardian has ever forgotten they lost their ghost, and chased a ball off the tower?

[@innocentbystander3317]

I shot my own ghost then went for a swan-dive. Take that, Traveller!

[@huntermcmahon9049]

@@innocentbystander3317 sounds like something the drifter would say

[@sanzo669]

My titan is an awoken and its kinda of nice to hear when I pick up a patrol in the dreaming city since it's an awaken warrior giving you the mission, they would say stuff like "hey cousin" or they say "we as awoken" instead of saying "us as awoken" it felt like the dreaming city was my home, so to have the last city with a mix of humans, awoken, and now the Eliksni would be awesome

[@grzetim]

Love all the ideas, Byf. While I would love content like this, I can also see why it doesn't exist (beyond the game and time limitations). I never looked at the Tower as a place we hide from the city. I look at it as a place the citizen can look to and know we are always on guard and they can live their lives. With the Red War, I felt a connection to the people in those first missions; seeing the city in ruins with Cabal tanks in the streets and we were helpless to defend them. We then ended up at the Farm (another space that I had hoped would be used more past vanilla D2) and see refugees there and for the first time, we are just like them; one life to give and to lose. The Elinski Quarter has been a great addition that I hope continues growing. I hope as it grows, it has more and more development as well as a variety of races (Human, Elinkski, Awoken, Cabal(?)) working together to build a new world. Being a player from way back in the D1 beta, I have such an attachment to the lore and characters that I do not look for "thanks" in that sense from the citizens; we are Guardians and we are doing what the Traveler put us here for; to defend the Light and the Last City.

[@JACE70736]

I think a good way to explore the more grounded parts of Destiny's universe would be through novels or comics. As you mentioned, Byf, adding the details needed to humanize the civilians inside the game itself would take a lot of effort that could easily end up being ignored by many players. But a side story from the perspective of a civilian or someone from the FOTC would be a great way to put them front and center and breathe a lot more life into them. A perfect example of this is the Star Wars Republic Commando novels written by Karen Traviss. So often throughout Star Wars you see the world through the Jedi's perspective, but in these novels you see the world from a completely different viewpoint, and it adds so much to both the clones and the setting as a whole.

[@thedocklighter]

The rewards for city-based quests don't have to be loot, but things like supplies or source of supplies of various kinds (in exchange for doing a needed task), and can expand on storage, freeing up vault space for actual loot.

[@Techhunter_Talon]

25:15 Part of what you described with this quest makes me think of a mix of the Adventures that Destiny 2 used to have and sidequests from other MMO type games, and even purely singleplayer RPGs.

[@Redbeardblondie]

100% agree. For the longest time, I’ve thought having Guardians moving in and amongst the People regularly would be the absolute best way to keep them focused on the true purpose AND create healthy, powerful community relations. And in the different seasons, seeing the People’s responses to the events of the time would make the impact of the season infinitely more potent to the players. Especially in this last season, seeing the impact of the Night AND the visible tension when Eliksni are near the people, that would’ve been such an incredible storytelling tool! I really hope they give us access to some of the city streets sometime soon.

[@OpalDrake11]

I am a deeply Lore-based and In-Character player, and I literally think about this every day. I've found ways to work in offscreen answers to this issue, but MAN would I throw the BIGGEST party if we got any more City content!!!

[@guitarlooney]

It’s interesting how you mention having choices after I had a thought just a few weeks ago about adding something that the community could choose, like how you had the community wide missions where accumulatively, guardians would have to do certain missions or kill certain enemy. I get it would be cool if there were several choices that couldn’t all be done that were “polled” and whatever the community chose the most would be the choice made that helped define how the season progressed. For instance, instead of entering the vex domain to find out the location of Quria, you received a transmission from Zavala saying that the vex have started an assault on the city where the choice made is to allow Quria to escape for the time being or lose part of the city or the tower to the vex. It stays like that and progress from there as a community guided story.

[@randalfthewizard6446]

I think a good and relatively (very relatively) low resource way to do this would be to continually update the Botza district as the vanguard’s plan for turning it into a learning center progressed. You could come back every so often and it would be cleaned up more, have more resources, have a mix of humans and eliksni, and eventually new construction projects would pop up. It could have ambient dialogue from npc’s, and maybe even a library that you could read lore tabs and such in more conveniently. It could be an example of the last city you could consistently visit that almost entirely is influenced by civilians. It could maybe even have a museum with scannables and such, kind of like the tent and collectible rooms in the Europa friendly zones.

[@skydog4034]

Idea that I think might be simpler to add. A weekly rave. You could have a handful of city npcs you could talk to and a bunch of random background characters. Make the people you can talk to a kind of hunt. Maybe each week they're in the same area of the club. Maybe they move around. Maybe they could be npcs that can interact w 2 person emotes. If this was a thing before the eliksni joined the city you could see a small group of them in the corner the first few weeks. Not dancing and obviously scared. And as the weeks progress you can see more people talking to eliksni. And see them branch out from the corner. Plus if you give a Guardian a good chance to emote they will. I can almost guarantee that players would love to have a dedicated emote space.

[@DogwoodDingus]

The corsairs in the dreaming city was a great step in the right direction, they can still do some good work with that system if they flesh it out more. Ultimately I think what the devs could do is create outposts run by humans and maybe one or two guardians in local patrol zones. They give you a ton of quests and bounties, but occasionally a public event can occur that places the encampment under siege. The camp can never be destroyed outright (because of the guardians present), but the human guards can be killed. The more survivors, the greater the rewards. That’s something I’d personally like to see at least, at the very least it’d make patrols a bit more exciting.

[@Casualminis]

A few seasons back we kinda went into the city as the traveler repaired itself I loved that event got great screen shots of myself looking at the traveler and standing next to the people

[@Chourus14]

On an unrelated note, funnily enough, DE is taking a step towards this in a way with the New War update by playing missions as a Grineer soldier, a Corpus mechanic or Tenshin, a Dax soldier. But then again, Fortuna, Plains of Eidolan and Deimos is telling that their miles ahead of Bungie when it comes to protagonist/npc relationships.

[@YouknoitJadeonhc]

"we need to put citizens out Infront of us" *Drags a citizen by the back of their shirt into vog*

[@Ronnie28067]

Exploring city should of been featured in this game since the beginning of D2!, from buy armor, ships, clothes, ramen, shelters, going to bars, more and more vendors, and maybe soccer games or something lol

[@Lyki27]

There is one major way I would do this, personally, and thats to introduce (limited) player housing. You design and make a block or two of city that we get an apartment to customize the small interiors; but we could also walk around and talk to the small restaurant owner, maybe look out onto one of the canals. I have always been sad that Midtown was a combat area and not an area to interact with the people of the city.

[@ShadowEclipex]

I would love to explore the Last City. It's part of why I loved Scourge of the Past and that one live event before Beyond Light. Surprised they haven't done anything else with that one live event map. All of the tech issues you mentioned is part of the reason why I am a bit sad we probably won't get Destiny 3 for years if ever. Sometimes it feels like we need a new game to overcome the tech issues.

[@JOHNSMITH-vx5yz]

All your stories are fanmazing Mr BYF,,,, I never miss them.

[@spoontycoon8645]

For your consideration, grandmaster level patrols, you stay as long as you like gathering up larger bundles of planetary materials, enhancement cores drop regularly, you have a higher chance at exotics and higher stat armor and weapons, public events would be incredibly hard, and there are just players than walk in like regular patrols. The current state of patrols is that they are kinda pointless. Also being able to toggle matchmaking on regular strike playlists would be a great quality of life change as well.

[@danielginn9033]

During the red war when we lost our light and and had to escape the city, and then finally found hawthorn in the outskirts to me was a great mission. I wish we could go back and play it again. During the mission we saw what it was like to be “lightless” and it actually had an impact on how you played. I was there was more instances like that.

[@irish7872]

For your 'patrol with FOTC' example, big problem would be the impact as an individual. Destiny is a game and universe effected by changes on a massive scale (any of the raids or big story examples). Saving or sacrificing a team would be hard to write, storywise. However, one thing Bungie likes to do is 'group activities'. What could happen is this: take a season timeframe, every week/biweekly story mission, have a choice during that mission that you have to make as your guardian, tally up the 'take action/dont take action' choices to progress the season story, recap before the next weekly mission, repeat. Think of it like choose your own adventure book, but on a massive scale involving the community.

[@muriomoira]

Your coment about playing as an civilian made me remember the moment in d2 Classic campaign where we lose our light... I wish I could play again those levels... It really made me feel powerless

[@ig_4220]

10:20 Ah that remind's me of the old Lead Scout's Cloak's flavour text.

[@RenoRedhead77]

I'd at least like an apartment down in the city. A nice little space to live and relax with a nice balcony where I can actually see people on the streets going about their business. Maybe to be able to leave the apartment and walk around a bit.

[@nicholascazmay2126]

I’ve thought this for years. It never made sense to me that we never interact with the people of the Last City on a meaningful level when they are what we profess to defend, apart from the Traveler. And that’s not even discussing the poor souls who exist beyond the City’s walls.

[@LeElister64]

Logistics are handled by the FOTC so supplies runs to active fronts are made by lightless people (there is some lore about that). We could have a mission where we have to rescue a supply crew who was shot down above enemy territory.

[@colbystarr1744]

I’ve always thought it would be cool to have a clan room. You could enter it through one of the doors in the tower that isn’t used yet. You could put stuff in it like at the Europa camp and you’d earn the stuff by completing challenges with your clan. I think it would make people more active in clans.

[@trainerred1345]

I've always wanted like a market place area. A place with a bar or restaurants where you can interact with NPCs. Maybe a local doctors office has a shipment that hasn't arrived so we go and find out what happened. Maybe the local Bar has this amazing drink, but they lack the final ingredient and we go get it for them. How about a vendor with special weapons that can only be obtained there. Maybe w can go to dinner with Holliday or go grab a drink with Crow or go shopping at a different store other than Eververse.

[@mekinbah]

Reminds me of one of the reveals of Tennocon 2021, we will get to play as a Grineer soldier and a Corpus guy to really feel the impact of the Sentient invasion.

[@AviKats66]

I always get a surge of excitement whenever the lore gives us insight into civilians and City life. While I would absolutely love to explore the City more and maybe even see/interact with civilians, I understand all the resources that would need to go into developing that (like Byf was saying in the video). Perhaps Bungie could explore alternative ways to show us more about the City/civilians - more lore, concept artwork, podcasts?

[@MrMyu]

Thank you for bringing this up. It's an enormous logistical nightmare yes, but we don't *see* anything. Sometimes we feel like loot goblins rather than defenders of a species with a tenuous foothold at best. Hawthorne would have seemed an idea contact between regular citizens and the Tower, but now she's a clan vendor and... ?