Destiny Gets Blindsided After Conceding Point In Good Faith In Israel Debate

[@LastNightDestiny]

Destiny Debates An American Palestinian And A Viewer's Mom ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKrYcp-FfNSqgpIsi=f_F8NZRjKMaceSNg

[@IstandwithIsreal237]

27:38 in 1996-1999 Newly elected Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared a new policy following the many suicide attacks by Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad since 1993, including a wave of suicide attacks prior to the Israeli elections of May 1996. Netanyahu declared a tit-for-tat policy which he termed "reciprocity," whereby Israel would not engage in the peace process if Arafat continued with what Netanyahu defined as the Palestinian revolving door policy, i.e., incitement and direct or indirect support of terrorism so that is why Netanyahu rejected the deal

[@IstandwithIsreal237]

37:53 lets not forget that Egypt got back the land in 82 and was like ok f it Israel is a country fine which is an actual peace agreement by both parties all Israel wanted was peace they gave the Sinai dessert to get peace

[@IstandwithIsreal237]

44:30 before the 1930s even there was pogroms in Israel also

[@IstandwithIsreal237]

2:04:49 hamas was founded in 1987 not 2005 or 6 nd even then " Hamas opposed the secular approach of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, rejected attempts to cede any part of Palestine, and embraced the use of violence, including acts of terrorism, as a means to achieve its goals"-Britannica "it(hamas) opposed the Israel-PLO Letters of Mutual Recognition as well as the Oslo Accords, the former of which saw Fatah renounce "the use of terrorism and other acts of violence"[62] and recognize Israel in pursuit of a two-state solution. Hamas continued to advocate Palestinian armed resistance-Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter On April 6, a suicide bomber blew up his car at a crowded bus stop in Afula, killing eight Israelis and injuring 34. An additional five Israelis were killed and 30 injured as a Palestinian detonated himself on a bus in Hadera a week later. Hamas claimed responsibility for both attacks. The attacks may have been timed to disrupt negotiations between Israel and PLO on the implementation of the Oslo I Accord. A bomb on a bus in downtown Tel Aviv in October 1994, killing 22 and injuring 45.-Wikipedia

[@danielcampbell9457]

when someone starts a debate with "everyone feels like this" when everyone definitely DOES NOT feel like that, i think were off to a disingenuous start.

[@oddctioum]

Axe: "...i don't have the data but there are only people who held up a palestinian flag or threw a stone once..." Avi: "there are however also Murderers and people that tried to stab other people with knifes..." Axe: "you make it sound like they are all Terrorists..." geez, yes, valid point. it would be really appreciated tho if you abide by it too. you made it sound like only innocent children were held up in prison. thats why Avi's point that was mentioned as response to your BS is much more valid. overall the discussion was good. but most of the points made were invalid and refuted in real time. i just wish people who support Palestinians would use their reason and scepticism on arguments from both sides. and not only be 100% sceptical on one side while being 100% gullible towards the other side.

[@thomasd725]

This needs to be the discussion example for anyone wanting to debate/talk to destiny. An actual god dam discussion letting each other flesh out points and allowing for intermediate questions and points during each others point. Probably the easiest to digest discussion I’ve seen in a while big ups to whoever the dude is

[@thelevelbeyondhuman]

Some random dude > any top political streamer that isn’t destiny

[@MrTasurinchi]

​@@thelevelbeyondhumannot only streamer, but on top of a lot of people that you can see on the screens nowadays, who confuse emotions with arguments, to say the least

[@18andcloudy]

I love how when Destiny belligerently contrarian takes are slowly withered down and he's proven wrong despite ever actually conceding like a grown adult would, the comment section is always 'Damn, you know this just a fair, honest debate' like bro get an actual grip.

[@jonathanbura9813]

Saying its not a "Jew thing" has some truth in the majority, however the minorities are not small and they DO consider it a "Jew thing". There has always been a "Jew thing" with Arabs in regards to Jews. The Hebron massacre, the banning of Jews from Arab countries, the active ethnic cleansing of Jews who stayed in Arab countries (after 1948), the social discrimination. As a Jewish man I see and feel these things. They are very real not just to me but every Jew.

[@danthem2278]

Jerusalem is more dense than Gaza City. Where does the "most dense area in the world" thing come from.

[@amrahmed7856]

The same way Egypt is one of the most densely populated countries in the world. 110 million people living in little over 20,000 km^2, not the full 1,000,000

[@RanEncounter]

Tokyo literally has a cross section that on an average day there can be millions of people passing the crossroad an hour. Do these people know how densely populated many areas are in the world? This is just balant exaggaration to make an emotional appeal.

[@Kaewin5510]

It's just one of the talking points you dump to win the argument.

[@460mas]

It’s a talking point Palestinians uses to emotionally manipulate you. Because once you do a deep dive into this conflict the Palestinian side collapses pretty fast.

[@EnderPearlRs]

​@@RanEncounterTokyo has around 6000 people per square mile. Gaza City has 36,000 people per square mile. 2 seconds on Google would have settled your confusion. Edit: I made a mistake with this comment and acknowledge it later down in the chain

[@vikspod]

If you ever feel like a loser, just remember that no matter what happens, you will never be as embarrassing as STV Philly

[@kingrainbow5432]

At least he debates earnestly and keeps coming back to talk to Tiny

[@AspiringSpaceWizard]

⁠@@kingrainbow5432you think he being earnest ?

[@bunta_]

STV Philly incapsulates debate brain. Fully arguing/debating on a topic that is totally pointless with no reason goal. Guy is on 5th level debate brain mode

[@vikspod]

​@@kingrainbow5432he comes back to talk to tiny for the audience. He can only gain from it.

[@johnlynch8947]

But.... he didn't even talk

[@VelCroweBar]

Destiny: brings up valid arguments and questions or refutes an argument with good points. The other dude: "Let's fast fowards a bit" Me: oh...

[@powercore2000]

That opening clip of him saying "your implying they were hostile for no reason" means we're already off to a great start

[@jamesclement8985]

*you’re

[@KingOfMalevolence]

@@jamesclement8985 *you'rer'er

[@Lawlstube]

​@@KingOfMalevolence*u r

[@mave6602]

After failing four times "alright we call it a draw". Feels Monty Python-ish.

[@TheRealVince99]

Destiny, can you please please PLEASE for the love of all things good not concede to the point that the Jews who returned to the land are "European colonizers". That isn't what colonialism is, colonial theorists are turning in their graves due to these braindead lefties. Despite living in Europe for a long time, the returned Jews are still literally part of the indigenous haplogroup diaspora who was only so spread out via discrimination, ethnic cleansing and genocide. ESPECIALLY do not ever concede this point to the same people (like this guy) who believe that all Palestinians anywhere in the diaspora are still indigenous people who have an unlimited right of return to their homelands including when they have analogous backgrounds. It makes your footing look weak, you're making a concession where it makes no sense to and in their minds it is clearly justifying the "European colonizer v indigenous innocent lovely colonized" frame of reference that they live and die by. If you want to go down this road, AT LEAST force them to explain what they mean and how it doesn't apply to Palestinians or force them to be very specific about their definitions to determine whether you agree before you outright agree with the sentiment. A lot of these people literally do not know Jews are indigenous to that region at all, and the point that the are making is "European Jews never descended from this region, so they have no right to return to it" which is FALSE. Thank you and I love you buddy

[@dgerch]

Thank you. There is such overwhelming evidence that the Ashkenazi are descended from ancient Levantine populations. First and foremost, genetic testing confirms this but even if you were to dismiss the hard science, all historical records and common sense support this. The Khazar theory has long been debunked and Jews don't proselytize (evidenced by the fact that their population is a fraction of the size of the other Abrahamic religions). To paint these people as white colonizers would require you to dismiss science and somehow believe that Europe's Jewish population chose to convert WHILE being actively discouraged to convert from "authentic" Jews so they could be brutally persecuted in their "native" country. Why would they do that? It's nonsensical. The genetic provenance of Ashkenazi was only questioned after Modern Israel was established for the express purpose to delegitimize their claim on the land. It's a "theory" that belongs on the same shelf as Holocaust denial, blood libel and the Protocols of Zion. Do I think the oldest extant people from a region necessarily entitles them to the land? Of course not. My only point is that if the "Settler Colonist" meme is the premise of your argument, you need a new premise.

[@MonssterHD]

😂 youre literally mental.

[@martymcfly88mph35]

I just don't want George Soros in the west. I want him to return to Israel. Is that too much to ask?

[@tobysmith2081]

2000 years ago. Jews left 2000 years ago. Youre dont get the right to infinitly call yourself indigenous

[@btuh-g7x]

indigenous is meaningless and doesnt matter

[@deadzoneternity]

This guy says "you can disagree but I'm right," followed by not providing any better argument or evidence, more than Destiny says "I could be wrong, so let me check," followed by him actually checking the evidence of his claim.

[@heinshaaine8153]

He says: You can disagree with the Un, but i wont argue with your anti Un-Stance. Which is a reasonable take... I woulnd argue WHO regulations with some dumb fuck anti masker or transphobe iether..

[@heinshaaine8153]

I take that back... he really hides behind it...

[@cooperatiion]

Ive heard Destiny more than once say the exact line : "You can disagree but I'm right" or "You're rambling because you know I'm right" or "I'm right and if you don't think so it's because you are a retarded dipshit who doesn't undestand anything"

[@saniman959]

Bro has been the most good faith person on this issue and yall still find a way to discredit him. Destiny even conceded a point and his whole chat just simps for Israel. Nothing will convince you that Destiny is not the best faith on this issue even if he reads the history, he still narrativize it a lot to match is prereqs.

[@amaruandujar]

Checks Israeli sources oh it checks out.

[@8020drummer]

These discussions are so good at breaking ground and hashing out ideas that I can’t listen to podcasts on this stuff anymore. It’s like trying to appreciate pre-ufc martial arts after the ufc existed

[@Holy_Grapefruit]

I think it isn’t the Israelis that make me side with them or remain neutral. It’s genuinely the pro-Palestinians, Palestinians and the militant western supporters who push me to either a neutral or a more pro Israel stance. The reasoning, the moral superiority and the glorifying of violence that make them seem like such a vile side that I just don’t want to associate with them. Am I wrong?

[@Tavat]

Yes, you are wrong.

[@godsstrongestschizo]

Also you’re employing concern trolling tactics in entirely bad faith and it’s clear to most people that you’re obviously staunchly pro-Israeli but painting yourself as someone skeptic and in the middle to garner likes and paint the average skeptic as pro-Israeli. It’s so entirely cruel and evil. And it isn’t something new to Israeli defenders either. They love using every slimy trick in the book.

[@quwokka-e5l]

I get you.

[@areliablesource7733]

Perfectly reasonable take and I'm right there with you. I'll take the side that's at least LESS openly genocidal.

[@furthermoreasmr9303]

No one should support or not support something in response to other people supporting or not supporting said thing.Even if a small portion of those people are reacting in negative behavior. One's capacity to support a cause should not be a reaction to other people's reactions.

[@0redfr0g0]

Some of the prisoners were jailed for rock throwing but quite a lot of the prisoners being exchanged by Israel have been accused of some pretty violent crimes (There are 70 instances of the charge of 'Stone throwing', some of those are secondary charges to more serious crimes, 103 instances of either 'Carrying out an attack' or 'Intent / planning to carry out an attack' ) : Name: Yassin Omar Azzat Hanafia, Reason originally incarcerated: Military activity and carrying out a shooting attack. Name: Moed Omar Abd Allah Alhag Reason originally incarcerated: Military activity and intention to carry out a suicide attack Name: Muhammad Emad Abraham Aso Reason originally incarcerated: Made pipe bombs with another and detonated them in a cemetery. Participated in an attack on a police station. Name: Azaldin Anan Hassan Sudani Reason originally incarcerated: Intention to carry out a combined knife and explosive attack. Name: Maztepamazan Hossein Shahada Reason originally incarcerated: Five offenses of bomb placement. Name: Gavril Ghassan Ismail Gavril Reason originally incarcerated: Throwing stones and being part of a military cell

[@ilyalips1713]

This is just a small bit of trivia, but not all the Arabs who were living on the land that is today Israel fled in 1947 and 1948 and when the newly-christened IDF showed up and gave them a choice of either work together with us, fight against us and die/be taken prisoner or leave peacefully, these Arabs took the first option and fought along-side the Israelis. After the 1948 war, they became fully-fledged citizens, they live in Abu Gosh and several other cities and towns around Jerusalem, and they are all held in really high regard in Israeli society to this day, even by religious right-wingers. Plus, their humus is beyond compare!

[@freddie5ive]

You're a psychopath lol

[@kingryan69]

the best Hummus in Israel is in abu ghosh, no joke

[@Mandems973]

They are not fully fledged citizens. They are second class citizens living under Apartheid.

[@dark91911]

​@@Mandems973you have first hand accounts of this?

[@Mandems973]

@@dark91911 Of Apartheid across the OPT and Israel proper? No Do you have first hand account of the Holocaust?

[@jayl3366]

watched a few of these debates on this topic, this one is the best one so far, deff do another one w this guy

[@godiebeard]

Every new vid I feel more behind and less confident on the facts of this conflict

[@Classikh]

The more I learn the harder it is to hold an opinion. And more frustrating towards those that do

[@ayofzi8895]

its not conflict just think and do research nothing worst that centrist @@Classikh

[@EnderPearlRs]

​@Classikh So true, seems like the only people with super strong opinions on this have conflicting interests and their opinion was predetermined b4 they learned anything about it.

[@jaredstevens6645]

Krystal Ball and Bari Weiss have really become grating with their takes on this conflict… they’re probably the most extreme of people I’ve heard. Destiny continues to impress me.

[@jaredstevens6645]

@@Classikhsame

[@limitbreak2966]

16:44 “departure yes, not expelled” oh COME ON dude, if you’re going to classify Palestinians departing as being expelled, then you better fucking count the same for Jewish people as well.

[@beenz07]

"I don't think it would have been mass expulsion" except that one dude who said the quiet part out loud and said no Israeli born European Jews would survive. The context is that at that point, he was under the thumb of Egypt and thought they were winning.

[@papertiger9845]

So it sounds like they didnt have anything against their religion like everyone seems to think, but bc theyre cultural invaders. The sephardic jews only went to Israel because Israel terrorized them across the middle east and morocco, and blamed it on the Arabs bc Arabs were being aggressive with jews inside their own countries because Israel was provoking tf outta everyone.

[@papertiger9845]

Also, Israel wanted to build an army and have more claim to the land with the million person plan, thats why they bombed temples across the middle east. And these are google-able facts.

[@Sxwrz]

I always watch destiny in 2x speed but when he plays the videos he’s reacting to in 2x speed, I’m fucked

[@galactic-gumbo9911]

Why do you watch in 2x speed

[@GreatRusio]

@@galactic-gumbo9911to save time

[@SaminHam]

Yeah me too. 4x is too much

[@Sxwrz]

@@galactic-gumbo9911 just means I can take in double the content in any given time haha

[@tpolutts3309]

How is it possible for stv so speak so damn much and still say nothing. Its infuriating.

[@heinshaaine8153]

He wabbles the same amount that destiny does..

[@winter666madness]

He listens to Hasan

[@pedronabais1456]

it's problem of these debates, it's important to talk alot, not much if you get what i mean you dont need to say something of worth, you just need to say SOMETHING

[@SaminHam]

@@winter666madnesshe’s not a hasan fan

[@Brewce34]

the obsession with calling things illegal or "international war crimes" while a country is constantly being attacked by one of the deadliest terrorist groups is hilarious

[@grossbeet]

Deadliest? My guy look at the stats 😂

[@yoavcornfield4126]

Its not about hamas vs israel. Its comparing hamas vs other terrorist orgs...

[@papertiger9845]

You think Hamas is even in the top 5….? Lmfao over Al Queda, taliban, isis…? You ppl are psychotic. Id advise you go check the stats on kills all of those have since 1991. Hamas isnt shit.

[@tobysmith2081]

You can make that exact same case for hamas. Does everything they do go out the window because Israel is killing 10s of thousands of Palestinians?

[@tobysmith2081]

​@@yoavcornfield4126 if we really want to get into "my terrorist can beat up your terrorist" territory of debates then you should look at the numbers. ISIS, Al Queda, the Taliban, almost every terrorist group in Africa has a higher death count than hamas

[@eschur]

Saying that it's morally wrong for Jews to live in their ancestral homeland is ridiculous. First of all, as far as international law, the only valid instruments of international law are United Nations charter article 80 and the Oslo accords. Most UN resolutions are not binding under international law except for very specific chapters of security council resolutions which this Obama resolution he's referencing does not fall under

[@daxx1985]

242 argument sounds like i stole my brothers pokemon card, battled deck for deck and lost, then was like WELL those are my brothers cards, u have to give them back to him....

[@lampad4549]

I think these are probably the most frustrating people to talk to, 1. People like stvphilly that came to you in a very cordiol and not try to he aggressive manner yet have some of the most judgemental or stubborn takes 2. Is people like the other guy where they claim to he both sides but are clearly giving one side more charitablilty than the other, case when the Palestinians or arabs are clearly in the wrong he has to caviate it whereas when jews are in the wrong he makes judgement so quickly and broadly

[@amaruandujar]

Because in the media Jews more or less get infinite charity so much so that even if they use human shields no one can believe it and assume Hamas does that because they say so just like the land being taken

[@Ben-G7]

Isn’t Destiny being way more charitable to Israel though? Seems to me that you just don’t like that he is biased for the other side, not being biased in the first place.

[@lampad4549]

​@Ben-G7 maybe but at which point do you think destiny is being way to charitable?

[@tobysmith2081]

Well yeah just because you can acknowledge its a both sides issue doesnt mean you think both sides are equally responsible. Destiny does the same thing but for Israel

[@tobysmith2081]

​@@lampad4549 I think the biggest one is his claim that Palestineans werent even real before 1967. He's deliberately choosing to ignore that a country is defined by the people and trying to push a narrative that a country is exclusively a government

[@FiryaFYI]

As an Israeli THANK YOU!!! Every weasel is trying to rewrite Israel's history.

[@glowindark64]

Kinda like sub-saharan Africans calling themselves the real Egyptians.

[@glowindark64]

I'm 13% ashkenazi. Will Israel take me? Just wondering haha

[@FiryaFYI]

@@glowindark64 0.1% is often enough. This is why Israel was formed. to be a Safe place amongst the world. Lets say all those pro hamas riot turn violent tomorrow, Jews all over could come live here.

[@saltymcnaulty9927]

This guys whole premise was "242 exists".

[@nathantripathy]

I love how she effectively said her degree is just worth looking at singular raw data and making grand conclusions. Also, she is definitely the kind of person who would tell someone it is statistically their fault...

[@wandieroz]

Wrong video bud

[@nathantripathy]

@@wandieroz ty, KZbin no longer likes to post comments on the videos you started typing on.

[@Holy_Grapefruit]

Hang on, why are we downplaying rockthrowing to some minor little thing? A well aimed shot with a brick can easily kill someone. Also don’t they use slingshots and shit? Even worse. Let’s not pretend we all have iron skin and skull that we can withstand it. Now that it might be judged different based on which side you’re on, fair. But let’s not say “for just throwing rocks”. Hell for 10s of thousands of years, all we did was kill with stones, either thrown or as a bludgeoning weapon 😂

[@billgentry12]

David and Goliath anyone?

[@DoubleYouDotTrump]

Slings were the premier ranged weapon for thousands of years.

[@hialeahtheo]

Id say because you can defend yourself from rocks with a riot shield and some helmets and not have to resort to killing someone to defend yourself from rocks.

[@DoubleYouDotTrump]

@@hialeahtheo you know a sling can lodge a rock inside your chest, right?

[@dbjdi]

​@@hialeahtheohelmet won't cover face kzbin.info/www/bejne/equ9aWiAgseaorcsi=lS7y4PWZdsKrlH2_

[@ancalyme]

I don't understand how you can reconcile being both anti Jews seeking refuge in Israel in the 1940s, and pro Europe taking refugees from conflicts unrelated to us. For the record I'm pro both.

[@leeuchiha5661]

What Destiny is saying that there is a difference between wanting peace because you want peace and wanting peace after you've gotten the shit beat out of you, its like a kid who was bullied had enough, beat the bullies ass and then the bully says okay stop I won't mess with you anymore.

[@Aanenk]

besides the bully does and can kill the person but doesnt want to be seen poorly and go to jail for it.

[@0redfr0g0]

I agree with the sentiment, but using the term bully has some connotations. Like even two rivals playing a game of chess it hits different to say "let's go back to a previous board state." After you're in check.

[@0redfr0g0]

Or using poker as an alternative. It is like the weaker hand saying. "I want to undo my all-in." After seeing the river.

[@tobysmith2081]

So are you taking an anti-peace position? Like i dont agree with your analogy but even if i did, what should the kid do to the bully? Just keep killing his family?

[@leeuchiha5661]

@@tobysmith2081 I'm just pointing out the intentions of the peace deal and possible context, there is a difference imo when seeking a peace deal after many many attempts at destroying the other side, granted I don't have a problem with it, it happens during wars of course, a compromise of some sort needs to happen, in the long run, if this continues it will be disasterous for all, I think they need to end the blockade and leave the settlements but I'm not foolishly saying that by doing just that all problems will end, they will not. Though I'm more sympathetic to the Palestinians I completely understand where Israel is coming from, because of that I admit that I have no end all be all solution.

[@polpol2739]

if feels like destiny feels bad going pro israel so much that he now tries to be as agreeable as possible to statments he just soon said otherwise without new information.

[@egyrt8340]

Bro this argument "You can disagree, but it's there" well you can be against Israel but it's there, wtf is this lol

[@heinshaaine8153]

The Un resolution does support isreals right to exist. Not just on land that it grands the Palestinian people..

[@ov959]

If we don't like agreements anymore, everyone can reclaim shit all the time. Constant chaos and wars.

[@heinshaaine8153]

@@ov959As a french i would like to have my francionian empire borders back...

[@heinshaaine8153]

@@godsstrongestschizo I mean the real wish is that the european countries would have just taken over the whole area and created peace... The area could be india today if we hadnt let arabs run it.

[@roidnelson2501]

​@@godsstrongestschizooh how all us non terrorist supporters wish Palestine was nothing but a memory.

[@DMFOOTBALL04]

This is not an occupied territory. Gaza was taken from Egypt, the West Bank taken from Jordan and k both disputed land because of the 6-day war and as a result of it. People keep making errors, and these are basic things. As to ethnic cleansing, there is no one jew who lives in the West Bank under the control of the Palestinian Authority yet 20.000 of them go to work in Israel every day and we have also 2 million Israeli Arabs with rights like any jew or Christian and Muslim.

[@dr.flywheel5493]

Both the regimes of Egypt and Jordan cringe upon the thought of getting Gaza and the "West Bank" back under their rule. Both regimes considered and continue to consider the residents of these areas problematic and even dangerous for their own regime stability. There is a reason why Jordan killed over 3000 Palestinians on Jordanian territory and expelled ten of thousands to Arab countries (see "Black September") in 1970. Egypt fears the renewed insurgency of the "Muslim Brotherhood" of which Hamas is an offspring. Note that the Muslim Brotherhood is the group that assassinated Egypt president Saadat on 6 October 1981, shortly after Saadat signed a peace accord with Israel. UN resolution 242 is a non-starter in today's reality and was never expected to work even at the time that it was published.

[@orenkassner2510]

38:08 how is uprooting civilians and conceding territory and security concessions, not a concession? This is again the mentality- all or nothing?

[@heinshaaine8153]

No it is like if the germans would have been "hey we might have illegally conquered half of Europe, but we are willing to trade it back". The settlements are by the un resolution on Palestinian ground and discussing anything but their total removal is a concession on palestines part..

[@hauntedbottles]

@@heinshaaine8153 Germany would be conceding. You are letting emotions make you say stupid things. If a guy who is bigger than you is betting the shit out of you and has the power, the moment they allow you to have some of that power, that's a concession. I don't have to negotiate with my kid on allowance because I have that power. Israel has that power. The UN means nothing. They have shown themselves to be useless. You live in a fairy tale world if you think that isn't the case. What you're talking about is whether it's moral or not. That I think is complex if you look at the story as a whole continuous thing and depending on where you start. That's part of what makes it so messy.

[@godsstrongestschizo]

@@heinshaaine8153what’s it like being jewish

[@godsstrongestschizo]

it’s kinda crazy how all of you jews flock to any popular platform to spread your lies and propaganda like one big flock. I thought you weren’t a monotony?

[@michaelvanderwal7390]

Except Iraelis don't recognize the settlements as illegal. They day the West Bank is still contested land. And yes, the Germans giving back their conquered land without anything in return would be a concession

[@entropicflux8849]

respect for destiny pulling back when he realized he was getting too combative.

[@lightingwolf1]

I thought it was annoying. He only does this with lycan and this guy.

[@entropicflux8849]

@@lightingwolf1 annoying? nothing is more annoying than listening to two manlets strain their voices with anxiety at each other. boys, calm down and discuss like adults. don't whine!

[@PuddingXXL]

Tl;Dr: _Chillllll, guys in KZbin comments!_ KZbin Comments are too unfair to this guy imo. Yes he is biased and he even admits so very openly in the beginngin while still trying to keep a good faith debate going. I don't know why people react so unhinge to him other then that they like Destiny. Btw I don't agree with him but I think the characterisation of him in the comments is unfair and unjustified.

[@ethakis]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Israel's justification for the Occupation in the Gaza literally just the second intifada? Because that's a pretty fucking good justification, at least for a while. Assuming that's true, I can see how the occupation just kinda continues indefinitely since the occupation breeds more resentment and violence, which results in Israel cracking down harder and harder until we arrive at today, where Hamas' attack on 10/7 has directly caused Israel to invade Gaza and kill like 15,000 people so far. To me, it really does feel like Israel's aggression against Palestinians is pretty much always the result of some fucked shit that happened to them. We'd be looking at a very different world if the Palestinians were not regularly engaging in terrorism.

[@Kanna-ge9sr]

So Israel being a consequence of settlers displacing natives, isn't fucked up? Why do people like you pretend that onmly the Palestinians have bad apples. Its like you truly believe that the people of Israel are chosen people who can do no wrong, it's insane.

[@almostafa4725]

This argument could be easily flipped around

[@Johngle]

Before doing more reading recently I was quite pro israel and unsympathetic to the palestinian cause, I want to thank you both for making rational and well reasoned arguments which have made me think about the issue more objectively instead of the cursory “they tried to destroy israel and lost so too bad lol” take I had from skimming through my admittedly biased sources. It’s been hard to find good and non-toxic discussion on the topic so good shit guys

[@JaKeIsCoolGuy]

This is exciting to hear, as someone who is pretty pro Palestine, I’ve had an issue with the… social media/media approach of those who agree with me. I think these convos have done more to convince the “automatically pro Israel because I’m American” crowd on Palestinian rights than any left wing infographics on Instagram have…

[@Johngle]

⁠@@JaKeIsCoolGuyagreed. Destiny (as the pro israel voice in the argument here) has done more to help me see things from the arab perspective than any pro palestine source has. Axehole put it well when he said “I don’t want to just yell genocide”. Most of the pro palestine voices I’ve been exposed to have either come across as irrational psychos or clearly coming from some kind of deep seated ideological bias or agenda so it’s refreshing to see both sides admit bias and make concessions

[@chrisbartolini1508]

@@Johngle Wouldn’t it be awesome if humans could get over themselves and just not have a bias?

[@synchronium24]

I don't think you're going to find unbiased sources, but the best I can do is be open about the bias and let you separate the wheat from the chaff. I found Andrew Sullivan's article "Why Sam Harris Won't Criticize Israel" informative toward my generally pro-Palestinian views. As the title suggests, this involves Sullivan making some comments/speculation about Harris' views that may not be accurate. That is certainly not the ideal environment to have a discussion. Nonetheless, I think that Sullivan's arguments on the actual substance of the conflict are very high quality. I'll try to summarize Sullivan's position: -Peace in this conflict requires a one-state solution or a two-state solution. -Israel isn't interested in a one-state solution because it would mean the end of Israel's status as a Jewish state. -Israel seems more interested in expanding its territory than engaging in good-faith efforts toward a two-state solution. -Hamas is worse than Israel in the abstract (i.e. what it would do if it held all the power). -Hamas does not hold all the power; Israel holds almost all of the power. So most of the responsibility to de-escalate the conflict rests with Israel. -Per the first three bullet points, Israel isn't making a good-faith effort to de-escalate the conflict. So Israel is mostly responsible for the current situation.

[@pedronabais1456]

@@clickbaitrater8945 this is also my issue, idk palestinians just seem one of those groups that they have some good claims and reasons for their cause but everytime i hear one of them explain themselfs the less sympathetic i am... like how many are actually happy with jews, or 2 states? barely any... i mean in europe and USA ofc alot of palestine suporters are, but in actual palestine? in gaza, westbank, sinai "refugee" camps? yeah... gl finding them being symphatetic to the other side...

[@HellaSayHella]

I don't get the argument that religion has/had nothing to do with the conflict. It's not the only reason, or the biggest, but it does, and always have, played a role.

[@limitbreak2966]

37:40 “it is what it is” ok dude well it is what it is that it’s never going to fucking happen, be realistic. Peace negotiations never go 100% how they want it. That’s why it’s called NEGOTIATING.

[@limitbreak2966]

38:50 “exactly exactly but it was only ok when my side the Palestinians did it because they’re under privileged” 🤡 absolute clien

[@kingryan69]

it was actually more than 50 percent that fled, axehole has very strong opinions despite not knwoing anything. " death marched" wtf

[@kingryan69]

it was one reason that the Israelis didnt fight the propaganda about Deir Yassein, it actually helped them as many arab villages fled without firing a shot

[@kingryan69]

and it was the two largest communities by far. and it wasnt a " death march" ffs

[@kingryan69]

most of the arab countries either had policies or the jews were literally being murdered. Destiny is correct.

[@TASTYxxGALOR]

His end take about the JNF is wrong. Yes, there used to be a leftover from pre-1948 about the Jewish National Fund that was used to buy land for Jewish and help the first waves of Aliyah. It was kept as a non-binding term in Knesset for a while, and then in 2000 someone actually tried to use this basis to sue in the year 2000 a home sale in Katzir (a cooperative commune in Israel) to an Arab, which the Supreme Court denied. In 2012, it also forced the Knesset to rewrite the wordings of the law so it will not be interpreted as such. The real origin on these laws actually come from trying to define both Israel as both Jewish and Democratic, so there are still many, many wrinkles there that need to be ironed out. But to insinuate that Israel has different rights for its citizens is false, and exposes biases.

[@wastingmylifeaway4898]

I love it when I watch Destiny on 1.75x speed and then he watches videos on 1.75x speed so I have to rewind and watch that part at 1x speed

[@dr.flywheel5493]

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, do you understand that in many cases (if not all) the land for settlements built on PRIVATE lands in the "west bank" was sold by Arab residents and purchased by Jewish settlers? I suggest to independently check me on this point. Note I am making this point to argue about LEGALITY and not about justice.

[@thugspeedman7869]

TOM will grow up to be Lex Luthor, from the looks of it.

[@SterlingKolde]

These are the cleanest perspectives, from the freshest fit young man

[@limitbreak2966]

39:59 “I want one state” that’s dumb and completely unrealistic, that’s never going to fucking happen dude

[@rdg7250]

Hoarsestiny

[@coimbralaw]

One of the most manipulative guests I’ve ever heard. “I feel it was an unfair pushback.” The guy is drowning in logical fallacies, but not limited to appeals to emotion and argumentum ad popularum, i.e., “there’s a world consensus“ so it must be accurate.

[@counterpoint1494]

I wish the opening clip was his lines at around 40:00 and that BS “ I’m against ethnic cleansing unless the Palestinian people are want it but not actually because that contradicts what I just said and also one state please” Like dear god

[@somedogsarecops2354]

I knew it was over when this guy introduced himself previously as Palestinian-American.

[@orenkassner2510]

18:44 I am curious to know about that considering that ramle and lod are primarily still arab cities in israel

[@360Fov]

Hitram Lee

[@yaaraamozig4862]

They are mixed citied with muslems and jews

[@awkwardturtle2842]

44:59 the one thing destiny is NOT doing is conceding anything… he is morally loading every action by the Arabs while simultaneously painting Israeli actions as justified… to all the glazers yes he does make some general statements saying it’s understandable what the Arabs want but in the totality of his argument it’s like saying “the Arabs want to genocide the Jews, but not ALL Arabs “

[@synchronium24]

Sounds about right. I think the one thing Destiny has opened my eyes to is violence toward Jews in the region prior to the formation of Israel, which means it's not ALL about occupation of Palestine. However, he seems to drastically underplay how the occupation intensified (and continues to intensify) this problem.

[@winter666madness]

I don't listen to YT turtles 🐢

[@narmi218]

@@synchronium24The violence was as a result of the Zionist intention to build a state of their own and fear of expulsion which indeed proved true

[@narmi218]

It’s because he is ideologically pro Israeli and naratavising the Palestinian side to fit which he consistently accuses others of doing. Hhhmmm can we really call it an occupation though? Hhhmmm can we really say they have the right to violent resistance against military targets. I would think not so let me see how I can explain this one ……

[@samuelmorkbednarzkepler]

My thought when he made the point about not every single Arab country had Jewish pilgrims was that this might be influenced by how many Jews lived in those Arab countries to begin with. I mean. He takes the fact that if you list countries Jews came from not every Arab country might be on that list as evidence that therefore some Arab countries didn't expell Jews.But it's possible that the once that didnt expell Jews didn't really have a statistically noticable precence of Jews to begin with. Maybe those countries didnt have that because they where even worse for Jews. From that perspective its even possible that Arab countries that didnt have Jews move out of them might have been the worst countries for Jews. But I mean, I have no idea. I dont know anything about the history here, I'm just saying that from a logical perspective I would need to know more than just "Jews didnt move out of every single Arab country" to conclude that not every Arab country expelled Jews.

[@tobysmith2081]

I agree but you also have to take into account that Israel was a better alternative for the Jews than pretty much every country on Earth at the time. African Jews, European Jews, American Jews also immigrated to Israel at that time, it wasnt an exclusive phenomenon to the Middle East

[@gungermunggung9299]

if this video has a lozenge chewing/mouth noises segment again I swear to god...

[@specialedclass2982]

I just click off the video as soon as I hear it.

[@carlosdemare1599]

bruh these comments make me see what other people mean when they say destiny has an army. this conversation was perfect, 2 people having a respectful conversation over a disagreement, looking up facts as they go and conceding when proven wrong and acknowledging when they aren't certain on topics. yet all the comments are attacking the debate opponent like he's a bad person for disagreeing

[@slashbashful6549]

actually though. i'm not a dedicated destiny viewer, but I've been watching his takes on Israel because of just how one sided it feels like every other channel is right now (edit: and at least destiny is willing to hear/discuss both sides). i'm only an hour and twenty minutes in, but I feel like this dude is at least the most tolerable person I've heard from the Pro Palestine side. he's at least coming in with evidence for his claims (regardless of whether or not those pieces of evidence prove his case), and it's not just "hey my buddy said this!". he's not screaming at the top of his lungs, he's letting destiny make his points, and he's even saying "hey show me this and i will change my mind". I think dude's doing great.

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

I challenge you to find a single “influencer” that doesn’t have that. People watch, people are morons

[@carlosdemare1599]

@@DadsCigaretteRun I agree but it seems (at least in this second channel) all the top comments are extremely army behaviour.

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

@@carlosdemare1599 maybe a bit, but it’s how KZbin and social media and general rank stuff that is annoying

[@LoudWaffle]

The comments sections are always such a dogpile whenever someone disagrees with Destiny. This was a good convo. I swear there's more goodwill to actual schizos like VeganGains or BigPapaFasc after their angry debates with Destiny than when randos like this guy come on and have pretty cordial and tepid debates against Destiny.

[@ranharel7033]

Every single Arab country is an ethno state

[@BowlSoHard]

Wrong

[@brunoverasferreira6263]

​@@BowlSoHardok, put a jew in a position of power, then. Is that ok? Also put a gay man.

[@rickylukecage4215]

Literally Lebanon is almost 40 percent Christians what are you talking about you 🐴

[@rickylukecage4215]

Israel doesn't even allow gay marriage, also they've been caught twice injecting African Jews with long lasting contraceptives without their consent during vaccinations what a paragon of democracy.

[@rickylukecage4215]

@tylerbanns9515 so we just gonna move the goal post. Why is it that if Jewish person moves to Israel and converts to Christianity or becomes Muslim they lose their citizenship.🤔

[@ogslowdragon]

1:16:53 and why not start from where enemy invading forces got their sh*t stuffed in?

[@TekniQx]

Every time "The Nakba" is brought up, the song "Rock the Casbah" starts playing in my head with the word "Casbah" replaced by "Nakba". "Sharif don't like it - Rockin' the Nakba - Rock the Nakba - Sharif don't like it..."

[@transcendentalmess]

Resolution 242 is the essential starting point because it contains the affirmation that territory acquired militarily must be returned. It then falls on the named entities who control the territories involved to come to a just and lasting peace. Enshrine the right to live in peace throughout the land.

[@dagttv]

“The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity” - Madeleine Albright on the topic of why Arafat walked away from dealing with Barak over personal differences (and not actual deal issues). PBS did an amazing documentary at the time which is on KZbin free in its entirety.

[@knishofdeath]

I'm only halfway through the video but the caller here is missing something. There was no agreement to withdraw from existing settlements. The plan was to do land swaps to make up the same amount of existing territory that the settlements were taking.

[@thomasseptimius]

Anyone who uses UN as a base for their argument have already lost the debate.

[@aelfgernon7729]

Axehole is kinda wrong about 242 being a call to go back to the 67 borders/ceasefire lines. It was left intentionally vauge so the borders could be negotiated. Though it was calling, in general, for Israel to give up the land it had occupied, just maybe not precisely all of it. Here is a quote from Lord Caradon, the sponsor and one of the authors of the resolution: "We didn't say there should be a withdrawal to the '67 line; we did not put the 'the' in, we did not say all the territories, deliberately.. We all knew - that the boundaries of '67 were not drawn as permanent frontiers, they were a cease-fire line of a couple of decades earlier... We did not say that the '67 boundaries must be forever; it would be insanity." This and more context you can find in the wikipedia article. His claims sound a lot like those made in the ADL backgrounder article on Article 242 and its post Yom Kippur war reaffirmation 338. Maybe best faith he got it where they got it from. Also his point about UN S/RES/242 being the international standard was poor. He wasn't only trying to convince Destiny that it was the international standard, it seems like he was trying to convince Destiny that it should be the moral center for judging this conflict? Something like that anyway. He also didn't seem to have any good backup for 242 being the starting place of all negotiations. It seemed more like that's where he thinks all negotiations should begin.

[@broobit7540]

I love when he pronounces it ham ass

[@Tube_Chaser]

I'M CONCEEEDING

[@holorenSHORTS]

🤤🤤

[@jonamar3965]

CHAT IM GONNA CONCEEEEEEEEEDE

[@orenkassner2510]

1:50:49 Convicted, represented by leah tsemel lawyer, convicted of stabbing.

[@Verbos1979]

Another thing to take into consideration is that Native Americans were not granted citizenship until 1924.

[@Tyler.8046]

242 is such a pointless argument for Palestine, the neighboring states already held the land and didnt create a Palestinian state. The opportunity has already presented itself for nearly 20 years and none of the Arab states followed through. None of them has any interest in establishing a Palestinian State. Maybe things would be different today, but that would be complete speculation with absolutely no information to back it up. You're not arguing in good faith for the Palestinians if your argument starts from '67.

[@mark-kq7rc]

Because at the time PLO wanted to take the land back with the help of egypt and Jordan and then became their own state after that. Remember that it is less than 20 years since They lost the land.

[@Tyler.8046]

@@mark-kq7rc Why would Egypt/Jordan need to wait till after all the land is recovered to create the Palestinian State? Unless the implication is that once Palestinians felt like they had their own state, they would have stopped attempting to expand further.

[@mark-kq7rc]

@@Tyler.8046 it is literally just 20 years removed from the nakba, and why the fuck would you not expel the invaders first and gain their land back so the mandate of Palestine become one. Egypt/ Jordan and the Palestinians saw it as European settler colonialism. Before you create a state first get rid of the colonizers at the time of self determination movement going on around the world.

[@Tyler.8046]

@@mark-kq7rc there hasn't ever been a Palestinian State, so what lines do you even draw for where the "invaders" are? My initial comment was that 242 is a dumb argument, and they had 20 years to establish the state of Palestine if those were the borders they wanted to enforce. Also, the "they only had 20 years" is a bad faith argument unless you have some reason why it should have taken longer to recognize them as a nation.

[@mark-kq7rc]

@@Tyler.8046 bad faith argument. there were also never a Syrian, Lebanese or Iraqi state. The mandate of palestine was supposed to be its own state also after they helped in stabbing the ottomans. But your initial point have been answered.

[@freddie5ive]

Funny that the 2nd guy doesn't understand what it means when the impartial third party also condemns your country lol he feels victimized instead of understanding that Israel is an aggressor.

[@ethakis]

50:00 you know, I'm inclined to agree with this argument that destiny is portraying on behalf of the Arabs in 1948, but at the same time, this feels an awful lot like great replacement rhetoric. I think you need to be super careful in making this argument because some dumb fuck right winger is really easily going to be able to say "Well if the Palestinians were justified in 1948 to attempt to violently remove Jewish colonialists, then why are Americans not allowed to try expelling illegal immigrants?". And from the framework that Destiny is establishing, I'm not really sure how you're supposed to argue against that even though at a gut check level it feels wrong. It feels an awful lot like post European pogroms and subsequently the holocaust there was a jewish refugee crisis, in today's parlance, and they all decided to move to the mandate of palestine. Framed like that, it feels real fucking shitty for the palestinians to have attempted to ethnically cleanse the "refugees".

[@Juel92]

This was a fantastic debate. Took until 1:41:00 ish for Destiny to make a weird argument. I really don't see the argument that blockading food is okay if there are other ways to get food at all.

[@ztjaenisch]

Internet nerds thinking anyone cares about international law. Also, imagine having a debate and googling most talking points in real-time.

[@MakeSense71]

Destiny thinks when Israel expand existing settlements, they do so by building new housing units and infrastructure neatly within current borders. Israel illegally and strategically build state funded outposts, mobile homes, military installations and industrial zones for the purpose of retrospectively grabbing even more Palestinian territory. For example, the easily abusable measure where settlers can remain on land if they built there without prior knowledge of Palestinian ownership.

[@halfbloodprincess989]

Talking about a conflict like that in terms of 'illegal or not' is weird...

[@Juel92]

I don't think making it legal for armed occupation practically incentivizes massmurder. Firstly: The nature of armed resistance is probably gonna be extremely similiar whether or not it's "legal". Secondly: If there is genuine concern about the law then they'd break laws with the massmurder. Thirdly: Trying to exterminate the populace is gonna have such huge backlash unless no one important cares, in which case the laws don't matter.

[@awkwardturtle2842]

33:25 I’m not sure the point destiny is arguing here, the fact is the Israeli government allowed increased construction while negotiating with Palestinians for the very land construction is happening on so it’s either they didn’t want the peace plan to be successful or they were not expecting it to be successful so they didn’t stop new construction. Sure there was reduced construction but that could easily have been because there were conscientious Israelis who wanted peace or Israelis that did not want to be kicked out of buildings they just built if the negotiations were successful … this does not in any way absolve the government for not stopping/preventing new construction

[@brunoverasferreira6263]

Yes, let's base our actions in the possibility of the arabs not betraying everyone again. Very nice.

[@1czechit1]

the peace process ended when Arafat refused an end of conflict clause. Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria were never on the chopping block.

[@gracefulPainter]

So this dude accuses DESTINY of having a narrative like he doesn't. Destiny is the ONLY one open and honest here

[@limitbreak2966]

1:09:01 LOL of course he doesn’t want to get into it BWAHAHA

[@maxkroll7126]

Lol. What’s there to get into? Is he going to claim that Iran doesn’t want to destroy Israel?

[@Rage.1551]

BUT IT'S THERE! ICANT LOL

[@ianmccarty990]

I think its interesting that idea of antisemitism and Islamaphobia is such a minor factor. I seems like the two sides are trying to argue the facts without allowing for an understanding that both these ideas absolutely play a major factor in terms of both sides "otherizing". It feels like its such an archaic idea today that the mere suggestion of it without explicit examples is almost unthinkable. This region has mixed politics and religion forever. Its intrinsically linked.

[@Ala_Diego]

Cool debate so far

[@tk-6967]

1:23:58 The Third Reich isn't the best example because of the Nazi's racial theory nonsense. Hitler would have made Aryan people equal citizens to Germans. That would include most French people, the Dutch, the Belgians, the Danish, Austrians. This would be expanded by the fact that there were non-Aryans in other Axis countries/fighting for the Axis, so he would declare people honorary Aryans which granted them equal rights to Germans. The 2 most surprising additions would probably be the Chinese and Indians.

[@ReallyAwesomeBoy]

1:59:08 No *diplomatic* attempt in the past 15 years, there were massive expansions in work permits, commercial cooperation, friendly contact. Not to mention that it was all Bibi that whole time who obviously doesn't want an agreement and there was almost a year of protests against him. So it isn't like there wasn't any reasonable hope for the Palestinians.

[@kalmancaganteuber1306]

I thought this guy was relitively good faith until about 2:08:00 or whatever when he’s like reaching back into ancient times for other empires to “take the land back” but he chose arbitrarily, while PURPOSEFULLY refusing to mention the Hebrew kingdoms that ruled the land. Hebrew kingdoms that every Jew more or less can trace their lineage to.

[@Robby_C]

This dude is just nit-picking semantics without saying anything of meaning.

[@Robby_C]

His only argument is an appeal to consensus based on what ever "international community" means....

[@iamthat787]

Any debate with a far leftist, communist, etc. becomes semantic games, faulty generalization fallacies, and a twisted journey into moral relativism.

[@PixelPenguin77]

2:17:21 I don't get it, what's Avi's point here...?

[@ChickenJoe12]

0:14 Destiny logic: the Brits said the Arabs could have a state there but then when the US and then the UN says the Jews can have a state in *their* original homeland: that means the Jews are European settlers?.. How does that logic even work.. The modern state of Israel and the modern territory of Palestine were both basically created by the west.. so im not sure why you think the Jews are the ‘settlers’ when they come from that land first.. that’s literally like calling Native Americans who happened to leave the USA and then came back “settlers”

[@Kelvasisthebest]

"20k people, that's nearly 1% of the population exterminated." Lil bro, if I called an exterminator and he only got 1% of whatever pest it was, I wouldn't be calling what he did an "extermination." I wouldn't even pay him. When people hyperbolize these serious situations it just makes me check out. Extermination is such a loaded term, but they just use these words without a care in the world.

[@limitbreak2966]

29:07 “arafat” keeps sounding like Arab fat to me lmao

[@iamthat787]

As a kid I literally thought his name was "Arab-fat" I couldn't understand how his parents knew he'd be fat...

[@Pryoness]

Good morning

[@iamthat787]

Palestinians lost their battle for statehood when they tried to assassinate / overthrow King Hussein of Jordan in 1970 and all their people were marched into Lebanon at gunpoint. They also destabilized Lebanon and lost the battle of Sidon. In 1991. Also, they looted Kuwait viciously when Saddam invaded. 200k Palestinians were deported by the Emir. Their militias ran wild in Syria on both sides Syria Army and Rebel Army, even opening fire on civilians, like at Yarmouk. They lost all their arab friends via treachery and betrayal. Even the Saudis ditched them.

[@succatash]

The JNF is a UN NGO and does the same thing that happens in America.

[@MatrixOne500]

I wonder.