Destiny: How Should Exotic Weapons Thorn and Bad Juju Be Buffed?

[@MrRockman1022]

Little did young datto know that after the buff thorn would be crazy OP

[@tomyates7325]

I'm surprised he hasn't taken this video down

[@Dokujitsu]

Thorn: 1.5 - 2X current reload speed 7-8 rounds Damage over time: either double what it does now or stackable. Double if it's going to keep that same mechanic. Stackable if each shot landed multiplies the lingering damage. Shot 1 = 1X lingering, 2 = 1.25, 3= 1.50 and so on. Bad Juju: Clip increased to 21 - 24 shots Impact on par with other pulse rifles A slight default increase to stability or a perk option to significantly reduce recoil

[@josephcress2195]

Send It to Bungie. It's perfect :D

[@Dokujitsu]

***** Void damage would be appropriate

[@anids1988]

I think the debuff on thorn should be a flat % of total ammount of hp (so if you had 200 hp it would do 10 say weather ur half dead or not) this would make it nice on bullet spong bosses but yh a mag increase and reload is a must all over HC have 10+ round with far better reload!! Juju needs a mag the size of red death! Recoil reduction perk, and a impact buff at lest to even make it worth using!! Then they need to rework pluse rifles all together as they suck balls

[@JimmyRappit]

I lost it at the begining LMAO

[@isaiahwright1359]

Sometimes I come back to this video just to laugh at it

[@imValerium]

That intro. I've always wanted someone to make a straightforward video like that. Thank you for that.

[@KingNekro]

Thorn and Bad Juju aren't the only exotics that need buffed. Red Death, Super Good Advice, Monte Carlo, and Hard Light all need buffs especially in PVE. - Thorn should get a 12ish round mag as it's buff. If legendary hand cannons can have 12-ish round mags with comparable stats and recoil, then the exotic Thorn should too. - Bad Juju should get a HUGE impact buff and a 30-ish round mag IMO, any less and it's still not worth an exotic slot. - Super Good Advice should get a significant stability buff, make it's "almost all shots that miss return to mag" work better, and get a slight impact buff. - Red Death should get a huge rate of fire buff... it just shoots far too slow currently. - Monte Carlo and Hard Light should get a slight stability buff and a significant damage buff, especially in PVE

[@seayoungsaltymetro2456]

Must've been a nice time when Thorn wasn't overpowered

[@stephenlee7405]

Phoenix Gogeta naw man thorn took the vex spot than later auto rifles and shotguns

[@Kneraa]

Feels

[@bigmoney6939]

Ehhh maybe I mean auto rifles were also broken if bungie new how to actually balance their own multiplayer mode instead of just nerfing things to be completely useless but I guess that's the dream

[@zydeffa3085]

oI0lO\SPARTAN/Ol0Io if you "knew" how to spell

[@kruleb]

Thorn - Magazine buff or Reload speed buff Bad JuJu- Replace the Hipfire upgrade for Zen Moment (Damage increases stability) or Perfect Balance (Increased stability) Super Good Advice- Either make the gun have much higher damage or increase the stability Suros Regime- NERF NERF NERF NERF

[@nukeshot7254]

Hey Datto do you think pocket infinity could use a slight buff? Maybe make the magazine have 4 or 5 shots instead of 3 or have the pocket infinity upgrade give it 8 bullets again but not have a chance to return bullets directly to the magazine?

[@harryw7650]

Oh the days...

[@Chhipz]

My main primary is the Thorn for PvP and it's a phenomenal weapon. It takes time to adapt to this weapon. When used properly I was able to demolish my previous PvP points records and even reach over 8000 points! Im going to describe what makes the Thorn very strong, but also why it seems underpowered/ room for improvement, and also tips for using it. Two headshots = kill, and Three body shots = kill. It also has a FASTER firing rate than other hand cannons, which is huge. The Last Word and the Thorn both share a unique PvP niche. They may run out of bullets/ don't have many, but they GREATLY excel at winning 1v1 battles versus other weapons. Other weapons, such as the Suros Regime, may be better weapons overall but these two weapons excel at very quickly killing your opponent. It seems underpowered because of it's mediocre magazine size, and its painfully slow reload. Both of those together on one weapon seems like a recipe for disaster. I wish to see at least 8 shots in the magazine, and a faster reload in its upcoming patch. A faster tick on the poison and/or making the poison actually stack would be great but not totally necessary. I would love to see something else added to this weapon so that it has a use in PvE as well, and the first step towards that would be a larger magazine. The Thorn is a weapon that simply is not for everyone, as it takes a lot of skill to use. Coming from a competitive Halo background of many years, the challenge of this weapon is also incredibly rewarding and like no other gun out there. Some tips I can offer you is use the third perk for each column (I believe it's aggressive balistics and perfect balance). I've tested it extensively and I feel like that's the best loadout for the weapon since it suffers from a lack of stability. A huge tip is to practice instinctively knowing exactly where the green dot on the 'scope' is. Practice in PvP but also in PvE. This is huge because every single shot hitting its mark is life and death for a Thorn user. Keep practicing and developing your muscle memory, but also shooting the gun at its maximum firing rate while remaining accurate. In the end, you'll become not only an accurate shooter, but a fast one that's dropping MULTIPLE people in a single clip. Training in PvE in an area where you can chain headshots on Fallen helps a lot. Practice fosters confidence, and confidence leads to greater performance.

[@cako142]

Completely agree with you on that one thorn is my top pop gun but it's also situational only use it with my warlock using sunsinger

[@Aurkus23]

I couldn't agree more. I have a Suros, Shadow Price, Monte Carlo, and Last Word, yet my go to weapon is Thorn. Its more challenging but killing with it is so satisfying.

[@DewDewsDestiny]

Back in the day....can't believe I'm feeling nostalgia for Destiny already

[@viStringTheory]

Hi Datto, great video! I had a random thought. I think it would be FUN, but I'm not sure the balance would be good. For the Thorn, what if it was made to be more like a sniper rifle (kind of like the Mythoclast is a primary fusion rifle)! Keep its form factor as a primary pistol, but when aiming down the sites, you get increased zoom, increased range, increased base damage, and increased DOT. Just an idea. I doubt Bungie is considering anything so drastic as that kind of a change, but I think it sounds fun.

[@darkchildoflight]

I'm part of a clan on Bnet called Thorny Guardians. We all love Thorn and many of us can't wait for the buff. It really does need a few tweaks.

[@Sen-wah]

The thought i had for bad juju, although its kinda stupid, is what if bungie coded it to where on boss level enemies, like raids and public events, since they take so long to kill instead of having to kill something for it to auto reload it had, say, like a 40/50% chance of auto reloading but when not attacking a boss type enemy the regular string of curses still aplies

[@ReaperGrimm5594]

That's actually not too bad at all...

[@reverendwartooth8470]

Decent suggestion

[@Longerhandledm]

I think that is a very good idea:)

[@josephcress2195]

I have a better idea: when firing at a boss with bad juju it automatically kills the boss so you can auto-reload. That is totally not op, right? xD

[@Sen-wah]

Joseph Cress 11/10 best buff

[@Techno_Byte]

I never used Badjuju (Im trying to earn it via exotic bounty) but I can see why people are upset about it. I say up its damage somewhere between 3-6%, give it a magazine of 18 (I agree with that opinion), and give it a special upgrade. Now about this "special upgrade"... It should be an upgrade where it has a damage bonus against elemental shields. It would give the Badjuju a unique power to take down a shield so it can start doing some damage to the actual enemy. If that idea is too op, boost its stability up to almost filled.

[@Littlewarrior1987]

Void Damage cuz Fuck the Vex

[@Techno_Byte]

lol your not the only one who hates Axis minotaurs

[@Littlewarrior1987]

Yeah, Im sitting here trying to beat the raid and ... 2 shotted by fuckin Axis Minotars

[@MarvelousPhilly]

You're doing a great job with this channel. Keep it up, young man. Seriously. Thumbs up

[@RebelOfTheNorm242]

personally i think: -bad juju's 'string of curses' perk, should be the very first one it unlocks, making the weapon usable from the get-go -for a second perk, it should be a new ability called 'pestilence', where if a player gets a critical kill, the enemy explodes (green explosion) and all enemies in the vicinity are effected with a DOT effect similar to thorn, hence adding to its 'curse' theme. -it should have a reload similar to hard-light (being that it just pull out the magazine and push it back in, without the chamber reload animation, hence speeding up reload) -finally, it should have just a minor impact boost, nothing drastic, just to make it a bit better as for thorn: -simply needs a ammo increase (8 is perfect) -DOT effect needs to be more powerful (esspecially in PvE), and i like the stacking effect you suggested -a MUCH faster reload speed (its not even funny as to how bad it is)

[@broonfondlemajik1798]

I use Thorn pretty exclusively. I got to say that the poison effect needs to ideally be almost twice the potency. Also the reload speed needs to be greatly increased. When I first got it I thought it wasn't too bad but then realised my armour was greatly increasing it. When I switched it to another character it was painfully slow. I don't want the ammo count to increase. I enjoy the patient playstlye which differentiate it from the other cannons. Also just so you know the poison doesn't refresh with each shot. The poison will run from the first shot and only refreshes once the initial cycle has finished, meaning if you don't want a target to recover you need your final shot to also be the one that initiates poison last so the damage continues as you reload.

[@broonfondlemajik1798]

As to Bad Juju. I have it maxed out. The key to this and all pulse rifles is to max its stability, which is fairly easy with its options, so that all the following shots land closer to the initial bullet. Once you have the damaged maxed its far easier to get the initial kill and then continue the string of curses. The hipfire bonus I believe is for the (I assume) 1.5x sight which makes it hard to track closer targets. It at least gives you the option as well as leaves the radar open. Again I would personally give it a bonus to its damage increase with the curses. Leaving the ammo the same for the reasons you stated but also allowing you to steamroll much easier.

[@hexahedronhead7516]

I agree. When I get shot by Thorn I barely notice the damage over time it does. I just notice that my screen has a weird green tint for a second or two! lol

[@Darkpara1]

Without hand cannon reload gloves the Thorn is painful to reload.

[@MyNameIsHoff]

Please keep the humor up, i was dying in the beginning

[@fh2actual500]

Good points all around. I have both these two bounties in my bounty list, but I'm not Actively attempting to complete them because until they get patched, I don't see the rush. On the other hand, I am Most happy with my Invective shotgun which I just finished upgrading. It has saved my bacon in many a close encounter and having unlimited ammo due to it's Invective upgrade, is one hell of a perk!

[@jacintosalz]

You got a knee slap outta me at the beginning there Datto!

[@Zaddy_THC]

anybody watching this in 2.0.2?

[@yoonk3517]

yo

[@davidcrabb6358]

Yeah... Buff bad juju, they said

[@doc-t-8648]

yeah this is hilarious lmao.

[@loganduplechain8821]

Hey Datto. Love your videos, they are very useful. But what about the part after the maze. The jump puzzle. I don't know whether you forgot to make one or thought it was too simple and easy to make one about it. I was just wondering.

[@jaygcapps]

Thank you for doing this video. I recently got bad juju and was super excited to have it and use it and then I was extremely disappointed when I started using it. Hopefully it will get better.

[@Alecsandor]

"I don't know. " I love your style Datto.

[@divine0enigma]

Change Bad Juju to something like "20% chance to refill ammunition when dealing damage" rather than the "on kill." Increase thorn's reload speed and make additional applications of the dot extend its duration in pve. Also fix the bug of it removing ignite / blocking ignite's application.

[@FinancialStorm7]

they should add the upgrade for whenever you get a kill it adds ammo to the magazine, i think they should add that to fix the thorns reload times

[@megamole9996]

Interesting idea, I like it

[@BalrogIsCool]

Conor Cronin and bad juju should have impact like Thorn :D yay :D

[@BalrogIsCool]

hi boom and conor :D

[@FinancialStorm7]

hi

[@BalrogIsCool]

***** oh :(

[@asurastorm8566]

A slight buff to the impact and magazine size of the Bad Juju would be good. It's sort of in a hard place with its ability, like you said. Personally, I think a lighting fast reload would also be good. It would make the small magazine a non-issue since you'll be ready to go just in case you don't finish the enemy off.

[@megamole9996]

A really fast reload would make string of curses kinda pointless, they should make bad juju low fire rate high impact and increase magazine to 18 or 21 so gun rewards precision even more. They need to fix pulse rifles as a whole when it comes to recoil though.

[@dustinbrink3241]

Another thing to note about Bad Juju is that I think when string of curses goes into effect it doesn't consume ammo.

[@grifffeldman5915]

Are you going to do another stream where you help people get through thorns bounty? Because that would be amazing

[@kristoph17]

I'm about to work on my second Thorn bounty today... still haven't upgraded my first, really waiting for the buff. For me, it needs a 8-12 clip, more impact or super fast reloading. For now, my random drop Devil You Know does the trick!

[@ReaperGrimm5594]

I actually really like Thorn. By merit of me just being a Gunslinger Hunter with Chain of Woe, I have phenomenal reload speed, plus armor that allows me to reload even faster. Thorn is very much a Hunter's weapon. Any other class tries to use it... you're gonna have a bad time.

[@jordancanavan7670]

i agree i use thorn on my hunter and have good games but with a titan or warlock its just reloading for most of the game

[@Svydnar]

I hope they buff Super Bad Advice gets a buff as well. For maybe a slight impact boost. A decent stability boost. And perhaps the ability to have bullets ricochet? Also, hand cannons with a high impact such as Timur's lash, need to be just high enough for a two shot headshot. And throwing knives to the head with no additional overshields should be a one hit kill as well (critical hit multiplier buff). For PvP.

[@Z_e_n_1_X]

start of your video made my day man ;)

[@protwar3673]

Anyone else notice your weapons primarily shotgun getting perks switched? My judgement IV had the ADS range increase but I got on one day and my shotty has 2 grenadier perks idk if they even stack

[@Seven7swords]

Yes! Zen Moment for Bad Juju seems like such a perfect match! Totally agree with that.

[@zhaitae2470]

Can we all just notice the design of these weapons for the good side of having them? Just look at Bad JuJu's green light from the barrel reflecting from your armor and onto the spine of the bird! Then Thorn when you ADS an exclamation point pops up. The design level for these exotics: badass!

[@Guccius_Maximus]

What's a good Vanguard primary? Since I just got the Pocket Infinity I wan't to level it up but I don't have any good primary weapons to take up the spot of my Suros so what would you recommend buying?

[@BalrogIsCool]

Both Bad juju and Thorn are good looking weapons and it´s sad that they are not better.

[@ahhahhchue]

My thoughts on Bad Juju, if you buff clip size or damage and change the 'infinite ammo' perk to only happen sometimes, like it has a chance to refresh ammo. For me the only good thing about Bad Juju is the way it looks.

[@curiousmoose24]

What shotgun are you using in the first crucible match?

[@ElNINETEENTH]

Datto make sure to stream the raid today we wanna see !

[@AJW0000]

oh boy what did you start datto

[@videogamerwolf]

a friend of mine and I were talking about how they could be buffed and he came up with ( in my opinion) the perfect solution. switch bad jujus effects with thorn and leave thorn as is. and boom thorn become a pretty great gun. and put the DOT effect of thorn on bad juju and maybe upgrade the ammo or have an upgrade ammo thing for it and then boon bad juju becomes good. but the DOT effect would have to do a little more damage in PVE than in PVP, hell maybe make it stack up 1 or 2 times in PVE. just an idea

[@michaelingham3267]

Loved the intro.

[@dawsonschrowe5465]

I totally agree with everything in this video. I have bad juju but I refuse to use it because my legendary scout rifle, I think is just overall better In every way. In PVE my bad juju does 77 damage with no crit but when it crits it just pretty hard with 245 damage. I think they need to just buff the over all Raw damage. Anyways love the video an the channel, keep up the good work bro!!!!

[@agiraffeinanecktie9469]

I loved Thorn from the moment I saw it's concept art. I like the stacking DOT idea though.

[@TheThats4true]

Would you still prefer your hawk moon over the last word?

[@Borengar629]

I came up with something quite similar for the Thorn. They should decrease it's impact but increase the damage over time effect just a little and add another bonus to it that brings ammo to your clip when a target is killed by the dot. Or killing an enemy with the dot could significantly reduce the reloadtime altogether. Bad Juju on the other hand just needs a slightly larger clip. 21 - 24 rounds and it would be a really good gun. But I wouldn't increase it's damage. Bad Juju is supposed to be a minion killer not a weapon to be used against boss level enemies. And in that segment the damage it deals is actually pretty ok. I think increasing the magazin size wouldn't hurt because the parts of the game that you can solo are not that hard to begin with so it wouldn't hurt any balance there.

[@Glitch1246]

What are your thoughts on the Monte Carlo?

[@nathan900130]

Does gunslinger's chain of woe improve Thorn's reload speed?

[@pursutioms]

Thorn is a pretty good Hand Cannon in the Crucible. However, that only happens once you get the MoD Dot upgrade, until then its a tough HC to use. After that I love it and I think the only other HCs that beat it are TLW or Hawkmoon. I really like the dot tick since I can see where the enemy is if they start to hide. Three body shots or two headshots are good enough for a kill. Honestly though, I see increasing the number of shots as a nerf at the same time. With the last shot getting increased damage you can get away with 1 headshot and 1 bodyshot. Ideally, I would like to have the reload speed increased and maybe the DOT changed so that it resets each shot rather than stack (and apply in PVP as well)

[@Vikingeek]

I think the main problem with Bad Juju is the recoil, it make it far harder to use compared to the strangers rifle. Bring the recoil down and buff the impact and you'll have a pretty solid weapon IMO. The damage seems bad because quite often only 1 or 2 of the shots actually hit because of the recoil. Swap the hip fire bonus for some impact or recoil bonus and it'll be much better. I got Thorn at the weekend and I'm loving it, though I've yet to unlock the poison aspect. I like the idea of the DoT stacking, though would need to be in a sensible manner. I think there would need to be a cap on the number of stacks as well - say 5. I'd quite like the idea of a damage version of a WoW Druid's Lifebloom. It stacks, but when the stacks run out there is a small explosion. That would then justify the reload time and small magazine (assuming it was fairly well balanced etc)

[@brucenatelee]

If they keep the reload speed for Thorn, I'd just say increase the clip to 8. For Bad Juju, you're right. Maybe incrase the impact or clip by 3, but raise the recoil a bit.

[@liamthecloud9058]

So, I was looking through the comments, and Thorn and Bad Juju were buffed (almost the exact way that was said in this video) and Suros Regime (comments) was nerfed. I, personally, was happy when i realized my Bad Juju had 24 rounds in the clip. The gun felt like it went from 3/10 to a 7/10 without string of curses.

[@anthonymazzella6245]

Hen is the mythoclast getting its patch? Or has it already got it. ( to buff it back up )

[@Coolguy20732]

LOL loved the intro dude."i dont know,thanks for watching" ;) LOL IM LEAVING A LIKE

[@AussieEvil88]

Bad Juju was my first exotic, and i still use it as a main weapon unless i'm raiding, then i switch to Atheons Epilogue, i've never had problems with it in anything but the raid, (trying to kill oracles with it is a nightmare)

[@crazydeadperson]

What if the bad juju every time u get a kill it refills mag and increases dmg by 5% and 2 extra mag size and it stacks

[@jtbanner7220]

How can you not tell that thorn DOT doesnt refresh? I noticed that right away.

[@EpziWasHere]

What about a tighter shot on BJJ? AS well as a Damage buff???

[@noahborg3836]

Do you know when they are going to be buffed. I have Bad juju and I don't have String of curses yet so it's not as good as it would be.

[@Applesaus_Games]

Just a heads up, Datto. At 3:45 you mention that Thorn refreshes its DoT on every shot. This isn't true. The DoT can ONLY be refreshed after the original DoT falls off. This is another huge drawback to Thorn, along with the fact that the DoT doesn't stack with other DoTs like Incendiary Grenade (Hunter) or any Sunsinger (Warlock) burn effects.

[@child7of7christ]

♡♡ Ok i know this video was posted on Oct 27th and I've read some of the recent valid comments. So my comment might be later news by now, but i already wrote it lol : I can only speak on Thorn, not Bad Juju yet. I use it in a specific way, minimizing its weaknesses and holding on to its strengths. It's great on high health PvE targets and players in the Crucible (which is mainly what the context of this comment will be). The amount of 2-shots possible in a single Crucible match is not something to underestimate (3 shots will put down a foe quickly as well, useful if they are running away or charging you and you'd rather hit 3 body shots than miss 1 headshot). It's a calculating weapon, requiring a plan of action before engagements. If you are caught in a gunfight and have to reload, well, you had to miss 3 kills (or 2) before that could happen. You have to account for the drawbacks of this weapon and embrace its already existing potential. Let me put it this way...with Surge or Force Barrier or Chain of Woe counter-acting the slow reload...and if you don't miss...the other team will take notice. This gun also picks off targets (2 quick shots remember?) at a surprising range, even without the range upgrade. (With the stability upgrade it is not difficult to land 2 headshots). I don't know if i would make this gun stronger (stat-wise) than what it has shown itself to be in the Crucible (not related to the PvE DoT stacking suggestion). Anyone who knows someone using it effectively, knows. I won't lie, it's one of my strongest tools especially for PvP. I tend to use it with the mindset of a supporting role. You won't see me being too aggressive with this weapon...I'll switch to Invective midgame for that. I honestly like to use it like a Thorn, and until the other team consciously deals with it, i will 2-3 shot my way to the top. You can greatly manipulate where an enemy player's attention is focused and their level of concentration (if you can land 1 pot shot on some semi-distant semi-aware foe and take no damage, you are already making them concentrate more than you), making supporting roles more effective. You won't kill the entire team in 1 clip with Thorn (although you can take down 3 if you must); it's more like you pick them off methodically until they realize you are at the top of your team. Getting assists with this weapon is another easy advantage (more points for your team). Also is the fact that Thorn and all Damage over Time components indirectly lower the affected player's Recovery stat by extending the duration that they are sustaining damage so that they can't recover until they aren't affected anymore, if you think about it like that. There's yet more ways to make this gun increasingly relevant to the other team (class setup/chosen class abilites), but those 'secrets' are for them to learn in game as they face it. I think Thorn fits its role. It's a big part of the reason i could challenge Lvl 30 Guardians yesterday and prevail despite it being the Iron Banner. It took me then 3 headshots to punch through the Lvl Gap (27 vs 30) but it was done nevertheless. Thorn helped minimize that gap many times yesterday, a testament to its potential and its power. Do i use it in every situation? No, i switch midgame to what is called for. So I believe it's a supporting Hand Cannon. ♤♧ ☆ ♧♤

[@PaulZillaX]

I run thorn on my hunter with gunslinger sub class. Activate "chain of woe" and "gunslinger trance" for faster reloads and more stability when doing critical

[@Zhiroc]

For Thorn, how about this: precision kills instantly loads (or returns, meaning you get the ammo *back*?) one round to the magazine?

[@MelancholyPhoenix]

Thorn isn't so bad on a gunslinger as has been mentioned. but so many people have been suggesting to increase its capacity, which in effect, completely negates the last round bonus. (one in every 12 rounds getting a bonus vs 1 in every 6) consider though, increasing the potency of the last shot and the damage over time, while reducing the capacity slightly, and drastically increasing reload speeds. ( tl;dr, +last shot, +DoT, -mag cap, ++reload speed) So one in every say 3-4 shots, deals 150% of usual damage rather than 125% (or whatever it is.) the damage over time effect hits harder, (and faster? it's a bit slow to tick), you have to reload a little more often, but if we up reload speed, it won't hobble it much, if at all.

[@dominickcifelli1933]

Dude that string of curses is gonna give my OCD a nightmare, I reload a lot and not seeing it reload freaks me out hahaha

[@Beatbasse]

Good, I'm not the only one. I was getting very irritated watching him use it.

[@jpwrdb24]

I really wish bungie would at least increase the impact rating on no land beyond. And the bolt action animation changed to were your character doesn't move the gun away from where you are aiming. That would make it a great gun.

[@garrisonthrash7255]

With the thorn.. An idea could be that it causes blinding and stunning to enemies making use of the burn of the acid or poison. And if the enemy is shielded it won't work until the shield is gone.. Non-organic enemies should allow the thorn to cause extra damage instead of a burn damage or while burn danger is in affect allow more damage.. Just from the thought of acid eating through metal.. Or it could create crit-hit areas of the burning area.. And for pvp.. Maybe just increase the burn damage.. Idk there.

[@MasonTheStoryteller]

I think if Thorn had a stacking DoT and the DoT was longer lasting, it'd be quite a bit stronger, and that would justify it not having as large of a clip. That said, I like your suggestions too.

[@benderbotx]

Thorn is really good in PvP. Equip some gauntlets that boost reload speed with handcannons. You also shouldn't find yourself in situations where you need more than 6 bullets. I'm not saying it's the best in slot, but I actually switch to Thorn when I'm doing bad with other weapons because I know I can always do well with it.

[@ooperblownup]

Thorn and Bad Juju are not even as terrible as Super Good Advice, I hate being harsh to the poor weapon (because the weapon actually is alive and talks) but is almost useless.

[@miguelp8522]

Any preferences on weapons for first time raiders

[@danielkwiatkowski8800]

Void damage

[@miguelp8522]

thanks

[@Ronman12345678912]

I have used thorn a lot and I can say that it only needs to be buffed for PvE. In PvP I honestly rarely lose any gunfights using it. In my opinion most of the people who say its a bad weapon either haven't taken the time to get its special upgrade or just suck altogether when it comes to using handcannons.

[@reddgazelle2338]

I think the most viable buff for the Juju Bean is to change the pointless hip-fire perk into a reload perk (maybe 30% increase or something). And then maybe turn the clip size into a 21. That way the 21 shots won't be so devastatingly bad for pvp or pve, and if you still don't kill your target (21 clip size is still very low for a low-impact, fast shooting pulse rifle) you can still reload a little faster. Regardless, I think both guns NEED reload buffs.

[@noxiabathys]

What shotgun did u use in this video?

[@arthurpace3972]

You have to see what the thorn is like now in trials of Osiris

[@theavostear7726]

Virge King at the start of the video Datto says that thorn kills in two headshot and three body shot in pvp. Nothing as change really.... I think its just because AR got supa nerf to the ground that Handcannon shine so much now.

[@Ninjapls]

If I could give Thorn anything it'll be a higher shots in the chamber (10-11), and maybe give it some type of elemental damage, maybe void. Bad Juju increase the burst rate and the clip size. Increase the impact and give it elemental damage too. Honestly I think all Exotic Primaries should do some type of elemental damage.

[@KRiderMan1248]

I think Thorn is best used as a PVP gun. It just needs either more rounds or a quicker reload time. I do alright with it but thats only because im use to using Scout riffles (back in the wet noodle days) so its not that hard to adapt. But reloading constantly is a pain in the ass. As for bad Juju. I agree that more impact would be good and maybe something to help with stability. Its definitely a solo player gun for sure.

[@crmichaels7]

In my opinion they should buff the mag a bit for Bad JuJu like making it anywhere from 18-24 round mag would make it much better that way you know you can get a kill for certain instead of hoping you hit all crits

[@otakurj]

Love the intro lol. I had to click and make sure the video was longer lol >.

[@lodgie555]

with bad ju ju instead of hip fire accuracy why not over penetration and thorn im surprised its lingering damage isn't stacked but a mag size bonus for precision kills would be nice and it would go with the whole vibe of thorn considering you had to harvest soles to get the gun

[@blususpect]

I have Toland's legacy bountie do any of you guys think bad juju is worth it?

[@schurgy16]

For Thorn: Reduce Impact, and recoil. Increase reload speed and magazine, as well as a dramatic increase to the Damage over time bonus. For Juju: More Bullets, More Stability, More Impact. I like Zen Moment or Crowd Control as a replacement upgrade

[@danielkwiatkowski8800]

You do relize the entire point of a hand cannon is to have high impact...without that it's just a scout rifle

[@BakedInHouston980]

0:21 "Thorn is not in a good place P v E wise"- while casually popping 4 heads

[@kallum39]

The gun rips with Headshots

[@thanksimsuper]

Thanks for the video. I love the Thorn...I can't wait for them to buff it. Personally I think that the lingering damage counters should stack. Even in pvp. Honestly they could just add that and leave the rest alone.

[@AsterFEB777]

I think thorn's Charakter Upgrade (the One with the damage over Time) should have an Addition like speeding up reloads or extra damage or Other over Time effects like Granade and meele cooldown Reduktion Wille an Enemy is under the Effekt of Thorn this would fit the weapons cruel and sinister Nature always hungry for power and Death. I think the Speed up reloads weile under the Thorn efect would be a good way to buff the weapon.

[@hexahedronhead7516]

I have yet to use a Thorn, but I have been using my Bad Juju for a while now, and I have gotten really good with it if I may say so myself. It's my possibly my fav weapon for looks, and I love running around shooting stuff with it. I have to agree it's annoying when someone gets the last shot on an enemy, and you have to actually reload the gun. It's a great weapon in very specific situations (Solo missions with lots of enemies that can be killed with 15 shots). I think more magazine capacity would ruin the point of String of Curses. They may be able to get away with an 18 shot mag, but no more. I think it should have better impact. I think that it would then be a worth while weapon, because whenever I am playing with my buddy, and we are trying to beat the weekly/nightfall strike I switch to my SUROS Regime. More impact for Bad Juju! Plz Bungie! >.

[@sozzysosborne6779]

I was expecting the Super Good Advice to feature in this video. That thing is just horrendous. Weapons like The Culling, The Swarm and Zombie Apocalypse are so much better.

[@chrischeney3307]

18 shots for Bad Juju and 7 shots for Thorn plus stacking Bad Juju's bonus damage after a kill ability as well as Thorn's damage over time ability to a certain degree would make them better in crucible and PvE. Then just give them both elemental damage (they look dark/evil as if they should be doing void damage) and they will be even better in PvE.

[@yaboimaui8193]

@Ryan Simpson- but here's the thing: your friends are lucky. I got Last word from the 7th week nightfall and shat myself when i got it. Its power and looks make it one of the best exotics

[@Morbidtaint]

I think they should increase mag size and add a damage after kill thing on string of curses

[@TheJmiktutt]

I think what the Bad Juju really needs is a massive stability boost and a slight impact boost. Red Death just embarrasses Bad Juju at this point.

[@andymunoz36]

as bad as bad juju is, i still like to use it just because it looks cool. i like to play style over stats, although the buffs mentioned in this video would be greatly appreciated!

[@andymunoz36]

Daniel Kwiatkowski i do actually! :)

[@EniqmaXL]

Destiny said themselves that the weapons are not as powerful as they're meant to be but they will be at the right time. I read this in one of the updates can't remember which one but this could mean some type of dlc upgrade or some new class might fuse with it... Who knows. Bungie is aiming to surprise us. We can only wait.

[@sonnieharker7454]

This is my own opinion on what buffs should be added to the bad juju. I think if they made the hip fire upgrade into a ammo upgrade so you have 18 rounds and then they should make a choice between the instant reload after a kill or a extra ammo upgrade so you have a 21 round mag.

[@realtuber101]

String of Curses doesn't even work on harpies, so going against harpies with the Bad Juju is pointless. Also, the big patch meant to fix the guns may not be around for another week or 2. Because the last update from Bungie, AGAIN, was only for people who play PVP. (To be more specific, people who play in the Iron Banner.)

[@tendo6910]

Little did he know...