Development Blog - Massive Balance Patch

[@Flamuu]

Honestly, a lot of good changes. Certain buffs made me scratch my head, like Jinan, Renown and EU gunboat buffs, but overall a very positive balance blog. Surely CV balancing is just around the corner as well. Discord: discord.gg/Flamu Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/ Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz

[@anuhain1461]

Cv balancing.. Hahaha

[@thomasduhamel6766]

Donsky change is actually undoing a past nerf btw. OG was 30 sec radar.

[@superkang7448]

Surely!

[@Whaley96]

But the people in the na discord told me that there was nothing in the game that was broken or overpowered. Why are they doing this if that's the case?

[@Whaley96]

They even asked me if I wanted to know how to tell if something is op? I guess if they are changing it that's one way to tell

[@tsuaririndoku]

Flamu:Common players mistake is taking BOS Me: *Quietly reskill my Yamato Captain*

[@TheGreatBoomy25]

I never thought I’d live to see the day to see a Zao buff after the community cries about its angles for YEARS.

[@Raketenmaulwurf]

Hahahaha finally my time has come!!! 3000+ battles in Zao and now they are buffing my favourite ship! But actually I do fear these buffs coming online because one the worst ships you can encounter in a Zao, is acutally ANOTHER Zao.. which will happen far more often soon I think :D

[@Lupus_Indomitus]

Why is that? Accuracy and woky citadel? Thinking about grinding it next, since well, i need some new goals rn

[@kenzovermandel9590]

Zao pens its own ship (on the deck for example) with the shells. And with the accuracy volume shell characteristics damage and low overall hp pool you melt very fast. Zao is tanky enough against many cruisers cuz they arent japanese haha. But when its japanese its just treasanous.

[@Lupus_Indomitus]

@kenzovermandel9590 ah, ok. Thanks

[@YourFault]

PRAISE BE GOD ZAO 🧘

[@mkkttmttr3401]

ZAO MY BELOVED IS BACK

[@BoxdHound]

As a dd player, combatting 7km hydro will be insane. Insane. That's a nearly 40% larger detection area!

[@2138Dude]

Still better than combating 14km secondaries BBs galore

[@jayvee8502]

The worse is fighting radar DD whose concealment is even less than it's radar range.

[@lasselundi9699]

I am now waiting for T11 Z-52 with 7km hydro

[@kenzovermandel9590]

That would be absolutely filthy to be honest. Mind that black gimick is a radar with relatively short range, about 8 i think? So what happens if you have a hydro with 7km range on a ship thats even stealthier and has a "radar" running for 2 minutes?

[@Xxxxxxxxxxii1488]

Finally a german ship that is op 😂

[@danielhayes1880]

Me and you both!

[@volknetai.3690]

​@@Xxxxxxxxxxii1488 You actually have to wait for supership tier to be strong instead of any other tier ?

[@MartialEmperor6344]

That wouldn't be hydro then would it 😂

[@psmith6166]

I'm cool with all of those buffs. The main thing missing was a buff to ship based depth charges. I have a lovely ss where I camped directly above an injured Gato in my Neutra and hit him with 38 splash hits. He died to someone's plane ASW.

[@deaks25]

I give WG as much sh*t as anyone, but I’m going to just thumbs up this one. Sure, there are some “ok, but why though” buffs, but surface ships getting buffs, and some that really needed it too, is something I’m here for. Excited to see what Belfast ‘43 is like with some actual teeth.

[@gesalbte]

19:12 Flamu explains why he doesn't use DCS Mod 2 because of heavy diminishing return. He also explains how the diminishing return works. The short answer is, the IY signal is efficient at reducing the damage of each fire by about 3.6%. Meanwhile, the captain skill Basics of Survivability and the DCS Mod 2 are costly, not efficient, and suffer from diminishing return when the IY signal is already mounted.

[@unable2noe]

These skill & mod are not worth the costs when people can build among these modules/skills a combination of FPE, ERE, IRPR, 2 point AA skill, DCSM 1 in certain ships, and/or coal DCP in certain ships, to help their survivability in high tiers where its very likely they have to fight CVs/hybrids (run IY when required). Then Slot 4 can be better spent on buffing maneuverability via prop or rudder to dodge. New players need to learn to deal with fires and not panic. Stop firing your guns, run and hide if you have to before you use DCP. If you got into a sticky situation where you get damage from every source, no amount of reduction can save you if you keep firing your guns.

[@Montrala]

Meanwhile poor Blyska is crying in the corner...

[@chiracultrainstinct3d629]

Blyska, Carnot, Stord 40 something, Hampshire, Tiger 59', etc....

[@annoyance.2583]

Błyskawica was designed as an absolute bully, quality over anyone’s quantity, I wont be content until she’s bullying Vaquelins into the bottom

[@helmsgaming84]

Vanguard, Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, NewMex, Krasny Krym....

[@chiracultrainstinct3d629]

@@helmsgaming84 I tought that Vanguard was dogshit but other than her very poor firing angles and bad armors, it's still okish.

[@TheBigGiant_SpaceChiken]

I had been wishing that WG buffed the reload on the Belfast 43 to 8.5 secs ever since it came out. I´m so glad it finally happened. I´m also very happy to see the Zao got some love from WG, that firing angle buff was much needed.

[@jamesharrington001]

I'm honestly kind of glad to see a lot of these buffs, some of the ships really needed them. But at the same time, the major problem ships in the game are still not being delt with... so time will tell how many of these buffs make it to the live server.

[@ishaanthadani7100]

We can only hope CV balance changes come soon. Tbh I completely forgot what it is besides cv secondaries.

[@ChrisRand-gf7lz]

I literally unlocked Jinan last night and WG posts a Dev blog with buffs to Jinan the following day. Thank you?

[@Tundraviper41]

To Be Honest for Hizen, the Reload should have stayed the same, but she should have been given Izumo Sigma and 50mm deck armor. While the reload buff is nice on paper, from personal experince Hizens Accuracy at ALL ranges suck because her current sigma of 1.7 and the Terrible Vertical Dispersion of Japanese BBs. Which even with the accuracy upgrade installed with a spotter plane Active, your shots are more often than not going to Straddle your Targets instead of hitting them unless your lucky. Hizen is also very Squishy for a Super battleship of her size because of her 32mm deck plating, so you get chunked quite a lot. (Edit) While she does get an improved Heal, she LOSES a charge for it, so only 3 base charges.

[@zekaiy.873]

WoWs administration has made noticable progress since makarov shitshow,thanks to CCs honorable standing (yeah Flamu's live stream makarov drop was legendary xD) and massive reaction from playerbase.I hope they keep it up, im still believing that we will see GK is great again:(

[@zedburg]

That 2 point AA Skill (AA Defense and ASW Expert) is making me thankful for the idiots that drop surface ships with ASW Drops thinking they're dutch drops. Reload galore despite the lack of CV or Hybrids in the match.

[@raphaelhuwyler6640]

it can be usefull to triangulate a ships location with aa tracers if they are behind an island or dark

[@zedburg]

I should have stated that they're dropping my surface ship directly, but yeah, that trick does work and is nice, but not when I'm fully visible, being shot at by them and dropped directly at the same time. Cheers though for that insight, hopefully some sees it and uses it!

[@unknown23hornet22]

damage of ASW doesn't matter as much as its ability to cause floods on subs. flooding damage and fire damage tends to be what kills strong sub players.

[@sander5990]

I am crying. Never thought id see a real zao buff..

[@DANICOLOMBIA100]

Maybe is just me but as a Satsuma player that was a enormous nerf. I know lot of people is afraid of the 510mm guns but actually hitting something with them is difficult, not to mention the ship is slow asf and you can be easily farm if you lose a flank. For me if they went ahead with this nerf they should have increase the time that take the consumable to reset so at least you can try hit something without lose some porcentage you already built through idk how many salvos fired.

[@liberator4201]

The whole gimmick of satsuma is that its a long range sniper. It does have really solid accuracy at long range but the funny button is what makes that ship fun to play. U cant fight close range. And this change seems like a huge nerf for that ship.

[@hamakaze9812]

>Hitting something is pretty difficult Idc man when I got hit by 1 of those shells in my CA it hurts asf so you dont need to land all shells. Removing her funny button would be good because her guns are stupid strong already and could prevent Satsuma from playing at the back line.

[@h.m.s.belfast4047]

It's really nice that they release some retro buff, I hope this happens more often to ship like Monty, Yam, On the side, super happy for Champagne Zao buff, now I wait for Roma buff. . .

[@davis6048]

Thanks Flamu for the video.And Happy Holidays to you and your family...

[@Palatinarien]

Got 60%WR in Jinan, thought it's busted so far but I guess the player base is proving me wrong. Let's see how extremely she'll bully ships now.

[@Just_A_Random_Desk]

Tulsa, Musashi, Zao, and Massachusetts buffs 🗿

[@CastresoneAk1]

2:27 GG Wp on that gn sound 10/10

[@kaltenstein7718]

Zao Buff, finally... My first cruiser love gets some love

[@jakubslavik5595]

Champagne is fine, it just requires you to have hands, as a BB it is bad, but you get battle impact via good positioning and getting cits on ships.

[@Qunia]

Jinan doesn’t need those buffs. The DD players need to play the game, or Jinan is actual dog water. At least in my experience playing it

[@MartialEmperor6344]

Jinan just needs some spotting support

[@gernhard.reinholdsen]

Agree on your commentary on Donskoi. That thing is a struggle bus, even in operations. Almost impossible to avoid being devstruck at any angle.

[@ladion7285]

Daaamn as much as i hate WG i realy have to say this patch is fire!

[@ronchabale]

Zao torps and gun angles.. Finally after 7-8 years of community feedback

[@jabbamagnus]

Nothing mentioned in this make me want to return to WoWS.

[@matthewmclean9734]

Jinan had a high skill floor, people don't understand how to play it.

[@marschu2]

Suspicious buffs for loads of premiums right before the annual christmas box sales

[@GodOfWaaar]

I like the Zao changes and the ITA DD line changes. :) I like both ships/ship lines but I think I will play them more often now.

[@JohnDoe3.14]

Tarigo is among the best DDs for tier 7 ranked. It's very easy to bait DDs into shooting before smoking up and wrecking them with SAP.

[@yamato-zi7yk]

I hope Mass B gets the same as Mass, through I wouldn't put it beyond WG to over look that.

[@richcampbell1486]

ASW planes needs to be as far as they can ping. Such a joke right now.

[@ozimakistvan]

Sad Flandre noises... That ship would needed a little mb reload buff too. Kii, Alabama are still powercrept as well.

[@gstormcz]

I like to see Tulsa getting buff. This ship is my pick no 1 in ranked if its T9 only. Tulsa already did ok for me, it's felt to have big impact on matches. But hitting DDs is quite rough, the spread buff is welcome. 7km hydro. Well, whoever won't notice Hannover mountain-cargo train comming? I am curious if they buff also torp min detectability range with this buffed hydro. Oh Montcalm buff - it looks like WG wants make playerbase feel better as this ship seems part of Priority Santa containers 2024 drop list 😅. (I got Theseus from small crates, Rodney, Montcalm, Mysore, Tiger 59(detonation incl), Molotov, Jupiter 42 from Mega containers.

[@brandenfraga353]

The Tsurugi buffs were not expected but I will take them i enjoy that ship quite a bit

[@gamkem1405]

Glad I have a Belfast 43 in port! Thanks Flammu! o7

[@bigsmoke7764]

as a Tulsan it feels so weird you talking about Tulsa. hope I get to see you play it

[@wombat4191]

Renown actually has the worst WR of all T6 BB's, and third worst average damage. On EU at least. So I guess those buffs are warranted based on statistics.

[@metavault0923]

32mm Hindi, is too much to ask? The only change she needs

[@nlb137]

I think the Katsonis is a brick, and people get baited trying to get 100% dpm (since it can only fire all guns in about a 30° window angled forward). So they get caught smoked in bow on and eat torps or get radared and can't get away.

[@Arthion]

Honestly, 38mm deck and casemate like Montana would have probably done more to help Republique more than better sigma.

[@RetroletsplayGBA]

Are they actually doing something worth me coming back to the game, probably not.

[@chiracultrainstinct3d629]

it's crazy they go from 6km hydro to 7km. They could have put 6.5km it's still insane

[@fanis1414]

Renown getting buffs while Nagato and Colorado are crying in the corner.

[@landochabod7]

Yeah how are Queen Elizabeth and New Mexico going to compete with that thing?

[@subx3dth]

and when will yamato get proper armor and secondaries ?

[@pavankalyan4690]

So when does this patch go live?

[@crazywarriorscatfan9061]

CV balancing will be here by Christmas, I swear

[@shadowfox8748]

Yuro said it years ago when the carrier rework happened. The player base needs the rework not the game

[@lo5tcau5e35]

Just started the video and I can tell right away none of this is balancing. The only balance I'm interested in is balancing 1 team with 16,000 games more over the other team. Cheers

[@TOM-sy8vx]

Waiting for Bismarck's main battery accuracy buff😢

[@Matiz92YT]

21:00 Where i check it solo?

[@onslaugh7pc]

The craziest part about all of this is people had a worse survival rate in Napoli than Jinan lmao

[@Indescension]

Wow, they finally buffed Zao after so many years of player feedback. Maybe we will see CV and subs getting nerfed or removed in 2035!

[@Czar_B]

That was a good explanetion about fire and skills. Why not make a vid about current skills en abilities for new to average players

[@unit3862]

my monkey brain goes mad with the Champ buff

[@mrgrey91]

And where is Montana Rudder Shift buff? Value should be decreased from two weeks to 18 seconds or so

[@DrSid42]

Last year they released Kitakami. Now they buffed Zao. They must be desperate ..

[@junior_emer2]

Yamato buff when?

[@PzDarby]

Why would yamato need a buff?

[@thatinternetguyj5222]

@PzDarby He should watch FatFluffyPenguin's video on Yamato

[@junior_emer2]

@PzDarby Too slow turrets and citadel that big that even alliens from space can hit it

[@bb-152ussmeta9]

​@junior_emer2 that's just the downside of having that much overmatch for a TT ship. Sorry to say, but her citadel is likely going to stay as it is.

[@Lupus_Indomitus]

Honestly, i enjoy yamato a lot, you just have to plan your moves, kinda like with vermont. But as a ship, it is completly fine.

[@diamondhead28_]

what about piemonte...

[@tegli4]

Nothing for CVs means , CV buffs!!

[@damiandorhoff719]

New Mexico could use a sigma buff

[@lubossoltes321]

aaand still nothing for the Khabarovsk ... sad panda

[@kenho-wr5ul2rh7m]

any buff to Libertad?

[@rajmanickam7239]

You surely must be joking?

[@serve_xt4298]

Regolo is interesting, flamu hasn't try it after they added the smoke duration mod and range mod upgrades which makes her much more comfier and a bit more consistent. The speed boost being so dogshit didn't make any sense, they finally realized so It may become worth playing now. The rest of the line are probably still dogshit, they have many issues still.

[@MartialEmperor6344]

Biggest issue is the range the range on most of them is smaller then their conceal

[@Peter-je6td]

No new game modes without subs and CV's so no point in coming back to the game after a year oh well maybe next year 😮‍💨

[@Im_TheSaint]

desmoines?

[@quoniam426]

Split and successors radar only serves itself with its short duration... With the 5 sec delay, it's useless to the rest of the team. It's not a bad ship but it's very big, not that maneuverable and the radar makes you too cocky, you try to play it as a first line DD when it fact it has too much of its original French DNA to be able to do so. (except for torpedo angles and number of launchers, though, I wish we hust had Terrible and Mogador torp angles and numbers with the PanEuropean torp speed) I guess if you manage to be better in the later Gdansk, you can be good coming back to Split. Katsonis is dogshit, behaving like a tier 3 cruiser more than a T9 destroyer... It seems unable to hit anything and does very little damage compared to its shell size. As for Champagne, I'd rather have regular BB armor than a reload booster. Making it a tier 8 battlecruiser was the stupidest idea.

[@GerKaiNeknete]

Zao

[@kevinzhu5591]

Why did wargaming buff Renown but not Renown 44?, now Renown 44 has less range, less reload, worse shell trajectory with better survivability, secondary accuracy and torps? If Renown at t6 is put at t7, it will be better than renown 44. Renown 44 also lacks secondary range as well. Not sure what wargaming is cooking right now.

[@MsGamefr3ak]

New carrier rework, delete them

[@matthewbrook2191]

Gibraltar buff when?

[@Kenpachi1985]

MAKE ZAO GREAT AGAIN :D

[@Seanscichlids]

Nothing to carriers as Flamu mentioned. Same crap still.

[@Sporting1210]

how are the lower tiers italian dds trash? oO The t5-8 got nerfed...uh...5 times? (while CVs are obviously ok) because, and i quote wargaming here, they "over-performed against same and higher tier dds". which leads to the problem with wargamings "balance" : They apparently rely on the spreadsheet data and dont actual paly the game anymore. why do i say this? easy. The whole concept of the italian dd-line is pretty unique and requires map and situational awarness, actual planning ahead and hands. so in a nutshell: these are everything a poatoe, plain bad or casual player HATES and dedicated dd players, who have a knack for dd-kinfe fights LOVE. specially the lower tiers are the best dd hunters on these tiers-nothing willl beat them in a straight one-on-one, if palyed corectly (maybe a Huron, but even that is a 50-50 and except ranked you dont see a lot of this ship-for good reasons) so my point is: the italian line gets mostly played by actual decent players, while sub 50% ers will avoid them (they dont like the gun range, because they dont udnerstand the benefits of it, they dont like the weak torps, they dont like the super short smoke &c), so naturally the stas of these ship WILL be better. CVs on the other hand are noob MAGNETS (same like Yoshis, Yodos, Hindenburgs &c, you know-everything that allows you to stay waaaaay in the back and dont paly the game) ) and you see SO many really, really crap cv players ingame (35% and 30-40k average with up to a 1000 battles). Those will bring the spreadsheet performance data WAY down and so WG can say "nope, cv performance is totally fine acording to our game data" I mean the last time they nerfed the italian t5-8 the reasoning was said overperformanced against dds and what did they nerf? the torp range on alrdy slow and weak torps, that you can not yolo a ull hp T6 BB with. But i guess i only write this because i am so surprise, that Flolo calls a super strong dd line "dogshit" and only likes the T10, which is objectively the one, where the entire concept of the line (low gun range, low concealment bloom on firing ur guns, instant getting dark after killing the enemy dd you engage) doesnt work anymore due to a gazllion radars/hydros, utterly broken T10 dds and - ofc - our best friend plane spotting and you are basically forced to play it very defensivly and make use of the super strong sap. I like the lower tiers, because they are straight in your face, aggressive dds desigend to engage enemy dds-super fun to play. The reason for the Jinan buff goes in the same direction: Its a a tech-tree ship and a lot of potatoes will think "smoke, strong torps and a fire starter - NICE) and they actually dont understand how to paly it (which is suuuper carefully) and then get surprised by the lack of armor and that you REALLY have to position urself and use ur smoke smartly and with pre-meditation - and so they get blown out of the water, torped in their smoke &c . So bascially its a ship played by A LOT of noobs, which pulls down the performance data. Also plane spotting and improved strike power on the new CVs is ofc a big issue for Jinan as for basically everyother light cruiser. Based on this theory i am actually surprised Yoshino didnt get any buffs^^

[@kenzovermandel9590]

When i was young a veteran gamer used to nag me whenever i told him this is too op and this is too op. He always asked me this. When multiple things become overpowered doesnt that cancel eachother out? If everyone is strong nobody is strong. Of course individual skill level also plays a role but thats a given. This is what this update feels like to me haha.

[@5kgBirnen]

GK and Preussen need some love too ! WG forgot about them existing or they are just supposed to be that bad

[@2138Dude]

With 50 knot subs and smoke CVs there is nothing massive about this game.

[@pt_ittythefirst4136]

The only way to balance the game is to remove all CVs and Subs

[@jess2690]

This is the way.

[@alexander3364]

To be honest, Bungo flat HE is actually nerf since you cannot reliably pen the deck armor with HE, and you always want to pen Deck Armor with HE instead of much armored Belt Armor. So contrary to what a lots of people think, Flat HE arc is a nerf in general.

[@SebaX92]

You shoot HE with Bungo only at nose in/ angled targets. So it'll be useful anyway. What it matter for those ships is that the HE will finally be useful against DDs, cause good luck hitting a DD now with that awful velocity.

[@volknetai.3690]

You will hit target sooner with HE as it stay shorter in the air. So it's a slight trade between hitting something and hitting weaker armor

[@alexander3364]

@@SebaX92 To be fair, BB are not supposed to snipe DD across the map. But yeah, shot HE at nosed in target is not an issue in Bungo after the change.

[@alexander3364]

@@volknetai.3690 I still think it is a nerf tho, from my experience IJN HE is decent since they deal good Alpha but they still does not have the same penetration as RN HE, so deck plunging fire is important to them.

[@volknetai.3690]

​@@alexander3364 Most ships usually not necessitate to hit the deck as most having the same protection or negligible defferences which allowed you to penetrate both deck and side armor ( not citadel but you already know that ). A few exceptions being very thick upper plating like Soviet/German/Italian battleships Anyway way all I'm seeing destroyer player getting fucked even more by increasing of faster shell's ships

[@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933]

Meanwhile, Lesta has introduced a new DD line for the Russian tech tree.

[@MartialEmperor6344]

Well uh they introduced a new US DD line though

[@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933]

@@MartialEmperor6344 I meant they announced a new Russian DD line in a devblog.

[@MartialEmperor6344]

@@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933 ah ok thnx for the info

[@crapmalls]

once again that actual money you paid us for a good ship with an advantage, yeah we just unpowercrept everything and you pissed your money against the wall. again

[@landochabod7]

Slava doesn't really have "Kremlin's hull": she too has 25 mm bow/stern, 32 mm deck and less hp than Kremlin.

[@jjimlee7009]

FFS just give the zao decent turret traverse. We don't need magic torps or few degrees of angles. Thank God for the mass and musashi air bomb buff. 5km drops are a joke.

[@deepbludreams]

Post launch turning is something the long lance torpedo could actually do lmao

[@Lupus_Indomitus]

Nah, turret traverse is fine at 30 sec base. But 45° turret angles to shoot all guns is fucking rough. You cant shoot all guns without eating massive amounts of pen damage and potentially citadels. And those torpchanges are pretty nice too

[@Airtroops83]

@@Lupus_Indomitus If they gave it EITHER a bit more base range or a 32mm upper belt I think it would actually be the last things the ship needs

[@Lupus_Indomitus]

@Airtroops83 in its current state, with those angles, it makes absolutly no difference. The changes she gets, and 32 upper belt or bit more base range (16.2km to lets say 16.7km) and she would be back to her old glory imo

[@frankfletcher_1]

Tulsa is the closest we will ever get to old Baltimore

[@trains4ourkids]

That line split was executed so poorly. Pensacola, New Orleans, Baltimore, and Des Moines were finally in a good place and made for a logical (based on reality) progression. All they needed to do was slap in a light cruiser side.

[@frankfletcher_1]

@@trains4ourkids Pensacola facing Musashi was not okay but the rest of the line worked decently Would have made more sense to just insert Portland at T7 If absolutely necessary to move everything down then just replace Baltimore at T9 with Oregon City

[@fredrikeriksson5199]

Belfast were already OP before :O

[@gregoryfolsom7882]

Tiger '59 still unbuffed, SMDH.

[@-Shadow__Rider-]

Wow I was stuck between choosing Satsuma and Hannover and eventually purchased Satsuma and now they buffed Hannover and nerfed Satsuma fml…

[@horst_koehler1969]

Thank god no Lib'tad nerf, ship would be even more "unplayable" KEKW .... AI Gaming

[@tonyennis1787]

I am surprised they are buffing Novorossiysk. Maybe 1.4 to 1.5 is not as much as it sounds. Renown is hot garbage and can use the help. It has six 15" guns that disappoint Jesus, but only every time it fires.

[@Ivanical]

Jinan needed buffs but Zao doesn't? really? EDIT: Hot damn, they actually buffed the Zao!

[@Glider5858]

Jinan doesn't need a buff.

[@mknote]

3:04: lolwut? Tarigo is dogshit? I'm sorry, I almost always really respect your opinions because you're a much, _much_ better player than I am, you've played for much longer, and I'm fairly average at the game, but... what? Luca Tarigo is quite literally my favorite destroyer in the game, and (relatedly) is the destroyer I do by far the best in. Honestly, the Italian destroyers as a whole are the _only_ destroyers I can get to work for me in the game. I'm mediocre in the American destroyers, even worse in British destroyers, and _far_ worse than even that in French destroyers. But with the Italian destroyers, I have pretty decent stats across the board for most of the line, and for my money, the Tarigo is the crown jewel of the line. I'd go so far as to say it's the only destroyer I might call myself _good_ in. So I don't understand how it can be considered dogshit when it is so incredibly far ahead of any other destroyer in my hands. The French and British destroyers that so many people call good are such suffering in my hands, and that's undoubtedly a skill issue, I fully admit. But then why does the Tarigo (and to some extent most of the Italian destroyer line) that so many people shit on work so well for me?! I feel like I've stepped into a bizzaro world where I do good in bad ships and bad in good ships.

[@Eremiyah]

I just want the CV secondaries so they can be more useful in operations