Deviant's Lock Advice - Part 04 - Master-Keying

[@packered]

7:38 You hear that kids? That's the voice of a man who has done this before and wants to make sure no one else has to suffer through it.

[@DeviantOllam]

i have thankfully never done it, but i have witnessed kits that were a mess

[@BurningMonkey]

@@DeviantOllam I watched a dude on a construction site, keying a bunch of locks for a new home, dump a brand new LAB kit on the floor from his chop saw table. he just swept it up and threw the entire thing away, looked at me, and said, "Well that was the fastest $200 I have ever shit down my leg"

[@DeviantOllam]

@@BurningMonkey ouch. What a shame

[@BurningMonkey]

@@DeviantOllam figure it was a good illustration of "if you ain't in the kit, it is shut and locked shut"

[@mbainrot]

I really love the lady's voice coming in with the coming up next :D love the work Deviant and many thanks and beverages for the anti-bordem-tainment :)

[@DeviantOllam]

my wife and i are trying to keep you folk entertained =)

[@himagainstill]

@@DeviantOllam You're certainly succeeding!

[@PatrickBrainard]

Loved the bloopers at the end. We all need a little chuckle during this crazy time. :)

[@psykotedy]

Your videos take me back to my childhood! My father was a locksmith for a good chunk of my childhood, and spending weeks riding around doing jobs with him during summer breaks was a fantastic time.

[@ConnorNolanTech]

One of my favorite talks of yours I've seen was the one you did on tackling master systems, so I DEFINITELY am looking forward to the next video.

[@DeviantOllam]

cool! then you'll know the attack already... but this time folk can see it in action. =)

[@peterk7931]

The trailer voice just takes it t the next level.

[@DeviantOllam]

"in a world!"

[@andrews4321]

The bloopers at the end are gold. If you dump out a pin kit of that size, you'll have plenty of time to contemplate your life while you measure and sort every last pin. At least that goes for the pins you can find.

[@_Steven_S]

Small, tedious to re-sort parts cases should be equipped with an auto-locking latch 🤙

[@marc-andreservant201]

If it isn't you can 3D print one. All you need is an L-shaped piece of PLA with an inward-facing hook, the length of the hook corresponding to the thickness of the closed case. The base of the L is either super glued or screwed to the top cover.

[@MikkoRantalainen]

Note that for each chamber with a master wafer, you cut the theoretical keyspace in half because multiple keys are able to open the lock. If you have 5 master wafers like in this video, you cut the keyspace into 2^5 or 1/32th part from the original. If the original keyspace has about 70000 possible keys, you end up with security level with about 2200 different keys with 5 master wafers. That means that on average *any random key* will open the lock with probability of 0.05%. And if you have a set of 47 keys (2^(0.5*log(2200)/log(2)), some two keys will match by accident with this small keyspace because of birthday paradox. A lock with 5 master wafers is 32x easier to rake or pick than a lock without any master wafers.

[@johnsmith8981]

He brings that up around 5:15

[@ianwatson4692]

Fantastic video Thank you I look forward to watching many more video soon

[@DeviantOllam]

thanks for watching! :-D

[@joebleed]

awww man, you almost covered my question; but then you didn't. How long does it take you to sort those pins out after scattering them to the wind or do you just throw your hands up and buy another kit? I can't imagine how rough of a job that would be. I did that with my collection of screws once, it took me a few hours to re sort them by head type, thread pitch, and length. And by collection, i mean for use, not novelty collection. Just to be clear to anyone reading this.

[@RubberBanned]

A lot of shop that have scattered lits have an apprentice do the sorting in down time. But they buy one in the interim. Sorting a scattered .003 kit was how I got my first kit!

[@DeviantOllam]

yeap... that's how it goes!

[@ConnorNolanTech]

Add this to reasons why they're color coded.

[@tedpark6814]

I'm sure the colored pins help, but there's no substitute for being careful. For small kits, such as the plastic LAB kits for a specific type of lock, it's not too much a job to get everything sorted out, however a large universal kit would be a horror story. I haven't spilled a large kit, thankfully.

[@lightningdemolition1964]

How much is a kit like that? Is it worth a locksmiths time to pick them up compared to just buying a new one.

[@Alan_Hans__]

Great video showing something that I will never do and the final blooper comment was just gold.

[@wlwlvr]

These are super informative videos, thanks. And, the Mrs. is really owning those "next time on" bits!

[@ZiggityPow]

I could watch some other famous KZbin talking hands pin a lock. It would be as tedious to watch as it is to do. It's the F bombs, snark and random bullshit that keep me here!

[@DeviantOllam]

fuckin' A right. ;-)

[@muaychris]

Excellent. Keep em coming. You drop them right at the end of my (wfh) work day. Perfecto

[@DeviantOllam]

one more video tomorrow rounds out my week of lock advice! =)

[@nathantaylor680]

In a world of auto white balance fuckery... thx Tara and Deviant had me rolling at the end.

[@thegingineer0]

I've seen your talk regarding hacking the master key from using trial and error using change keys blanks and a file, but I'm excited to see how to defeat the primus sidebar.

[@DeviantOllam]

the final video this week is about the Master Key Privilege Escalation attack, showing it from start to finish.

[@ryanwilson_canada]

I thought you were going to push the pin kit aside without latching it. Hahaha. While I do this on a regular basis, and deal with pin kits all the time, I still love watching your videos. Please keep up the good work, and stay safe!

[@DeviantOllam]

that's a serious yikes! to leave a pin kit unlatched but sitting closed.

[@ryanwilson_canada]

@@DeviantOllam yup.... i don't remember how many hours it took the ONE time i made that mistake

[@MikkoRantalainen]

Are those colors standard? You attacker read your keypin colors optically and cut the correct key for any non-mastered chamber?

[@danpowell806]

Would adding a couple extra master pins to certain locks add meaningful resistance to master escalation attacks by change key holders, at the cost of reduced pick resistance for the locks in question?

[@hihu7200]

I saw your video on master keys. It was a great presentation.

[@CSIClough]

Loving it from 12:50 on-wards 😂 gave me a good chuckle 😊

[@serviciotecnico4455]

loving this videos! Thanks!

[@DeviantOllam]

this was a fun project this week... to try video-a-day. i can't keep up that pace, but it was fun distraction. =)

[@serviciotecnico4455]

@@DeviantOllam As a filmmaker myself I will never understand how youtubers manage to make a video every day and keep up with it. Changing subject, I'm from argentina, and here the keys are completely different from the ones in your videos. I wonder if maybe you could do a video showing this different types of keys from other countries. I can send you pics of the tipical keys from Argentina if you need.

[@DeviantOllam]

@@serviciotecnico4455 oh I know. :-) deviating.net/photos/main.php?g2_itemId=14649&g2_page=2 deviating.net/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=15142&g2_serialNumber=3

[@thelockpickinglebowski633]

I love my Pak-a-Punch. I heard they don't make them anymore. But I could be wrong. I've got the parts for cutting Kwikset, Schlage, and Best A2.

[@legion162]

Thanks for the recent regular interesting content 👍👍👍👍👍

[@DeviantOllam]

you're most welcome... i won't be able to keep up with video-per-day but it was a neat little project. =)

[@AndrewClark-ajfc]

Pretty rare to hear that accent say anything about a sticky wicket. Top marks for the cricket reference.

[@mattoliverau]

Lol, might I say, out takes.. awesome and damn I like that pack-a-punch! thanks for these! Been awesome, I even got brave enough to rekey the backdoor to the same as the front, that's one less key for me! Unfortunately schlage isn't really a thing here in Oz, so I guess the pack-a-punch and primus is out for me.. unless I pay the Australian tax (shipping to Oz). Guess I'll have to see what Lockwood does. Cheers again!

[@user-zz8ln3uh5x]

Is there not an ergonomic automatic secure latch that could have been installed on that pinning case? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke

[@thedamnyankee1]

Is there a wiki or some other online document that discusses all the lock and key designs and classes? Like for example, I used kwikSet for my condos, and I was wondering if they had a competitor to the Primus... but I had no idea where to look.

[@DeviantOllam]

that kind of information is pretty fragmented throughout the industry. ask 10 locksmiths, get 6 or 7 different answers.

[@peterwelsh6975]

I learned long ago, when i pick up that style tray box my index finger goes over the lid incase the locks are loose/missing/unreliable. Only took me 2 dumps to never trust those latches. One was o-rings on a stair case....

[@timbober1]

You explained master keying on a conference I watched. Interesting stuff, I bet organizations prefer using RFID cards because it’s less fiddling around with locksmiths and there is a printout of who access what spaces. Your example was easy to understand.

[@DeviantOllam]

yes that was a very old HOPE conference talk, bet. :-) and yeah most facilities now move to RFID since electronic credentials are easier to issue, have auditing/logging, and are revocable, etc.

[@heyrim72]

Hearing you repeat "close your pin kit! It is not closed until the lids is locked" reminds me a lot of working with SMD electronic components. Have you ever thought about using some SMD container boxes like these? eu.beta-layout.com/estore/order_product_details.html?wg=58&p=80

[@capomundial86]

will you ever make content about double bit keys ? they are used on most doors where i live and i haven't found much content about how to make those safer (probably not using them would be best i guess)

[@freespam9236]

I feel like i have a stupid question, but that does not stop me from asking it... Coloured pins... isnt it an attack vector? if you can see colours you could decode the pins length and from that the key to open it up? am i missing something? i hope there is enough different pinning kits so this thing is not an option..

[@DeviantOllam]

it can be!! that's why most LAB system standards have repeating colors for the most common lock systems. (for example, in a Kwikset if you see a purple key pin, it could be a size #3 or size #5... a green could be #2 or #4... heh, but red is always size #6!)

[@tedpark6814]

Sort of, but peering into the lock trying to figure out what color the pins are might attract attention.

[@chrisgriffith9252]

Are mere keyed or multi keyed locks easier to pick due to the extra possibility of getting more shear lines in the pins?

[@MrTrilbe]

I looked part way down the comments and didn't see this asked, but doesn't master keying a lock make it less secure? instead of one combination you now have any key with any combination of the Primus and SC4 keying's as long as they are in the right order? a 7-5-6-2-7-2 key will work as well as a 1-3-8-2-3-2 key

[@reyneva]

is the pack a punch sill available on the market? Everywhere I look its sold out :/

[@davidlenz4552]

Do you recommend a certain retailer for a beginner looking to learn the basics for locksmithing to get kitted up? Also, how do you get your keys cut. Say you come up with a bitting combination, do you order the keys from (in this case) Schlage?

[@davidlenz4552]

Disregard my last question. I asked it before watching the end of this video. :D

[@tjsynkral]

Primus 736472 SC4 158232 That lock also opens for: 136432 136272 138472 156472 136232 138272 158472 138232 158272 136472 736432 736272 738472 756472 736232 738272 758472 738232 758272 758232 And that's if the lock has a perfect 1-cut tolerance. If with some jiggling and bumping you can open plus or minus one cut, imagine how many more keys can operate this lock.

[@ArraCSW]

Hi Deviant, I noticed on the Schlage pinning chart that there isn't a "1" value for the master pins - does this mean that you need a minimum bitting difference of 2 between the master and the change keys on each pin? I'm guessing a 1 might just be too small and would end up getting broken or jammed inside the lock? Just thought it was an interesting consideration for choosing the bitting on master/change keys.

[@twiceineverymoment]

You're exactly right. He covers this in an earlier talk on master keying. 1-height master pins aren't really used except on high-end locks.

[@DeviantOllam]

that's exactly right, yes... such a pin size DOES exist in the kit, but they're not used and they're out of spec for Schlage systems.

[@dougsundseth6904]

Jewelers often use a wax pickup tool (basically a pencil with a blob of relatively hard, sticky wax on the end) to pick up very small parts for which the orientation and precise placement are critical and fine manipulation is annoying. (Think gemstones, for instance.) Is that a thing in locksmithing, too?

[@tedpark6814]

There are pinning tweezers that are pretty good (I use Sparrows ones) and you don't want to introduce anything sticky into a lock since it could generate service calls when the lock screwed up. With some practice, it's pretty quick to put a lock together.

[@dougsundseth6904]

@@tedpark6814 From what I've seen, the wax pickup tool doesn't really leave any noticeable residue, but your point is a fair one.

[@laaslassen6928]

How does mastering work if one of the keys has a zero cut?

[@DEATH_TO_TYRANTS]

What are your thoughts on a simple lock out business? Honest kid. Hardworking. And I've got him more than trained.

[@DeviantOllam]

there are opportunities for that kind of business in many cities, as long as companies follow local regulations concerning licensing, bonding, etc. Also helps a lot to be ALOA certified, as well, of course!

[@myownsite]

The ultimate master lock would be eight size one master pins in every chamber. Would be as pick resistant as a Master Lock!

[@DeviantOllam]

there is a technique that involves that exact method... for a special purpose. =)

[@danielburke5087]

This is referred to as "every key" mastering, and it's used as a preparation for future attacks. The existing keys will still work without causing any suspicion, but an attacker can gain access through a lock with any key that fits the keyway.

[@DeviantOllam]

@@danielburke5087 precisely. Mossad would also use this tactic if they drilled a suspect's lock and then replaced it.

[@danielburke5087]

@@DeviantOllam Oooh, I never really thought about combining destructive with apparently-surreptitious methods. That is a fascinating concept indeed.

[@sloany1967]

Auto White balance. Another thing that drives a good man to drink!

[@TonyVirelli]

LOL "No one has ever wanted stupid auto white balance in the history of fucking ever!" That only comes in 2nd to the other best line of 2020 from Season 3 of Ozark "I don't know shit about fuck"

[@mjbates]

auto white balance lol

[@DeviantOllam]

it pains me so much. heh. my camera doesn't save settings between takes.

[@sarge727]

And then he drops that whole thing on the floor

[@gjdunga]

25 points for zoom booming...

[@lollubrick]

I saw a pretty funny youtube vid that I think you would like to see - someone made a giant pin tumbler lock and key out of wood - channel name is farmcraft101

[@DeviantOllam]

i know it well!

[@johntoncinich1176]

white balance, an update no one asked for...