Social Security Expert REACTS To Dave Ramsey’s Social Security Advice

[@DevinCarroll]

Next up: Watch "5 BIG Retirement Surprises" kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYXEeZ2lZdKUoMU

[@RobertEdwards-tx2eh]

My wife started taking social security at 65 along with Medicare but she's healthy and I don't know whether we should have taken it then but can you reverse it from 65 and wait until she's 66 and 10 months because that way we would get a lot more money out of it and we do need the money what's your advice on that my name is Bob from Idaho

[@RB-gt8bf]

As an RN tell you what never held the hand of anyone taking their last breath that said "I wished I had worked harder". Bottom line is we just never know. I for one after 34 years working as an RN took my SS at 62. The pandemic and just tired of working so hard, shift work, holidays, weekends, and the stress of constant people in crisis...made me say enough. I was hoping to go to 65 with work but said I will take the bird in the hand SS at 62 and my small pension that also included health insurance. Yes, I live modestly but when I think of all the stuff I went through in my working life not even adding things I have gone through in my personal life (loss of both parents after long illnesses)...I said I am done. Life is truly Short.

[@diggernash1]

That is a reasonable decision, if no one else's money funds it. People do not have a right to enjoy life at the expense of another. That is the fundamental problem with SS. Many will draw far more than the ever contributed. This pyramid scheme works as long as the base of the pyramid is widening. Our biggest earners are having fewer children and without children, the house of cards crashes down. This is the main motivation for our southern border being flung open.

[@lynnebucher6537]

I totally appreciate your viewpoint. And that health insurance benefit is great. I'm 63 and have been on an ACA plan. ACA insurance is only good for those living on very modest incomes.

[@TheEvie202]

RB thank you for your nursing service and enjoy your retirement in good health:)👍🏽👍🏽

[@JBM425]

That works for you, but it may not work for everyone. Some may want to take early Social Security, some may want (or need) to work until Full Retirement Age to get full rather than reduced benefits, and a few may even want to work until maximum Social Security age (70). They may need the extra funds to cover medical insurance or other things necessary in retirement. The important thing is to be armed with as much factual information about Social Security benefits at early, full, and maximum age before you start to consider the emotional reasons for retiring at a given age, since if you take early Social Security, you are pretty much locked in to the reduced benefit for life (I believe you can undo that, but you would have to repay SSA and/all benefits you have received).

[@RB-gt8bf]

@@JBM425 bottom line life happens....

[@ronaldgartner3700]

Had a physical job, good pay but hard on the body. Arthritis real bad, Retired at 62 and got a part time job so I can live in retaliative pain free or lesser pain free life. The money wont matter if you die working. My 2 cents

[@dougrobinson5830]

Me too. That 2 cents is good wisdom.

[@kona6451]

I'm 50 and my super physical job is already catching up to me. The money is good so it's tough to leave. Gotta milk it as long as I can I'm afraid.

[@europeon2wheels89]

I retired at 62. Lived off savings until my monthly benefit reached a number where I could live. Started taking SS at 64 and now at 71 I'm living well. Fortunately, my career wasn't super physical. Today, no arthritis, no lingering joint problems, etc. I've never spent a night in the hospital and no broken bones. No serious sicknesses except malaria 11 times with no recurring side effects. What's my secret? Probably good genes plus I exercised a lot and kept in tiptop shape.

[@matt75hooper]

How many people drop dead trying to accumulate some gigantic magnificent "portfolio" to leave to someone that will go buy a great car and travel the world ?

[@jrizzo3579]

amen brother

[@robertcampbell9992]

Started at 62, retired with two other pensions, 65 and single, life is good.

[@genet6255]

Two other pensions. You are in the rare category. The statistics are 40% of the recipients only have SS as their only income. Unfortunately, those are the idiots that will vote for Donald Trump (he said he'd be willing to cut SS and Medicare, four weeks ago on CNBC (no handlers around), and stand by him as he takes their money that they are entitled to away. The rest of us will suffer with him.

[@ChristopherMarshburn]

The real reason to take it early is the opportunity cost of waiting. Most people at age 62 are much more physically able to do things like travel, engage in outdoor recreation, etc. When you get to that “break even” age of eighty something you’ll be lucky if you are able to drive yourself to the grocery store.

[@nickc8366]

Bingo. Any other answer is not well reasoned.

[@ToddBizCoach]

Bet on life not death.

[@Killersam776]

This. This is what i view the true purpose of social security as. I view social security as a thank you for giving this country 40+ years of your time and tax money as well as giving you some kind of buffer before you need to use your own retirement money. Here’s some money to go enjoy life while you can, you earned it. Obviously your our retirement can go along with this but i view that as the money you’ll need to pay for your senior living home or in home caregiver. It’s easy to say ss in the most basic sense has a bad roi. But it’s very effective at keeping our elderly out of poverty and that’s a really good thing

[@kevinm.8682]

I find Dave to be extremely helpful as far as getting people out of debt and changing their bad financial habits. When it comes to advice on investing and life insurance, he is straying out of his lane. To be fair, he has to be consistent in what he says and there are so many variables to take into consideration that can't be done in a three minute phone call.

[@hubster4477]

How is advocating against whole life out of his lane? Its great advice.

[@yaimavol]

And everyone's situation is different. I have a WL policy that is going to pay out a whopping annual dividend now when I retire, so it will be one of my sources of income.

[@JohnBowl14690]

Dave isn't always right. He's right most of the time as he is with whole life and universal life.

[@JohnJohn-wr1jo]

Dave's advice is too "cookie cutter" or one size fits all. His debt free advice should be for everyone. When he strays and let's his emotions get the better of him its usually not the best advice. So glad he's retiring.

[@JohnBowl14690]

@@JohnJohn-wr1jo - There's only a couple of things I disagree with Dave on. Credit cards, how to deal with certain kinds of debt, and his 8% rule is a bit aggressive...though not necessarily wrong. But when it comes to WL and Universal life....he is right. Those insurance policies are a ripoff. I'm getting ready to retire. Back in the day...some insurance salesman was trying to con me into buying a UL policy. So glad I didn't. If I die today, I do NOT NEED a stupid $200K policy. My assets far exceed such a low payout. Furthermore, you don't collect the accured saving with those policies. They are for suckers.

[@AccordionJoe1]

I am 82. I took early SS at 62.In the past 20 years, I have collected almost $500,000 in SS payments. I was able to use that money to buy a small ski house in northern Michigan and spend the next 10 winters skiing every day, to go golfing most days in the summer, and to take my wife out to dinner often. Had I waited to collect until I was 70 or older, the extra money from higher SS payments would not have benefitted me because I stopped skiing at 72, I now golf only occasionally and dining out no longer appeals to me. So all that extra SS money would have wound up in my bank account to be used by my heirs instead of me.

[@Ziegfried82]

At that point we should look at the Bible which validates what you speak of: Ecclesiastes 5:16. You practiced wisdom.

[@texaszag8748]

Using that money you collected from SSA to buy vacation property was maybe a chops move for you, but many do not have the disposable income to invest enough outside of social security to support them and turn SSA payments into some kind of a slush fund. A lot of people need to maximize SSA benefits because they will provide a substantial portion of their retirement resources.

[@SquidwardsBigFatNose]

25k a year? Great...

[@f430ferrari5]

@Joseph Van. Sorry but what you’re stating doesn’t make sense. You’re older than my parents. They collected at FRA of 65 years old. You could have also. That’s only a 3 year wait. The break even point was really only 78/79 years old. You would have at least enjoyed 7 winters of skiing? I don’t see how necessarily though. Still would have enjoyed the 10. Why was it necessary for you to stop working at 62 vs 65. This may have been more the bigger factor? I plan to retire at perhaps 62. Maybe 64 but I’m not taking SS until FRA at 67. My wife will get half of mine. In between I’m performing Roth conversions. I’m saving on taxes this way down the road and ensure my monies are growing tax free. I will still have monies in my IRA/401k. I will pull out what I can at lower tax bracket as possible. This ensures I’ve saved and gained the most monies.

[@fuzzyelm1]

@@f430ferrari5 some of what you say works but mostly you are wrong ! Why stop working at 63 or 65 ? Why not work less ? That way you can take your SS payout and invest it ! At the end of 7 years you would have almost doubled your money ! You will not draw enough extra by waiting to make it pay out till you are 90 most likely! But more importantly! If you take the money and invest it , then your family gets it if you die ! If you wait to collect it and you die before you start collecting then no one gets that money ( ok some illegal bastard will get it ) So yes money in my pocket is better than promised money later ! And you must not have made much if your only planning on getting $1500 a month ! I’m yes I have helped some that get half that but they made bad decisions king time ago ! One had shown a loss for so many years because he owned his own business and thought he was doing good for not paying much in taxes those years ! But you do what works for you! Your situation may be different! I’m single with three ex wives ! Yes one can get part of my SS but it does not come off what I get ! But what you have planned does not work for most people! Especially if they do not want to stop working totally! Most people do not want to stop working that early ! You must really hate your job , you can find something you like to do and go do it ! I do that a lot ! I buy and sell cars and things at auction, then sell or give away the things I buy ! Not for everyone but I can’t imagine just sitting home doing nothing!

[@RichaRat]

My job was killing me. I believed if I Retired late, I would die early. So I retired at 63 and am so glad I did. This not having to work is awesome! 😎

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

DR never seems to address the issue of stress on the body and mind. It's always "get a side hustle" or "work more"... which may be fine for 20 year olds... but nearing retirement his advice is not really sound. I had to make a lot of changes and tweak the 'steps' to get out of debt.

[@grandmaraps]

@@anniesshenanigans3815 I totally agree with you. That was one of the reasons I stayed away from his program. By the time I got the second and third job to pay off the debt I would either be in the hospital or dead. Having a second or third job has to do a lot to do with how many hours you work daily, and the type of job you have. I worked more hours when I work 8 hours shifts, but when my job transfered over to 12-hour shifts, that just kicked my butt. A second job wasn't in the cards for me. When was I going to raise the kids?

[@bradk7653]

@@kbbkbbkbbkbbkbb We have followed Dave Ramsey and it worked for us. We raised two kids with my wife being a stay at home mom. The key is to always spend less than you make and invest the difference. We have been debt free for over 10 years, we now own 3 houses free and clear (primary house, vacation lake cottage, and another lake cottage that we rent out via Vrbo/Airbnb) and are now heading toward an earlier retirement. That being said, I also follow Devin Carroll’s advice to ensure that you are getting the most benefit that you are due from Social Security, you paid a lot in so you want to maximize what you get from it.

[@bradk7653]

@@kbbkbbkbbkbbkbb I agree that you don’t want to work to extent that it takes too much time from your family. But side hustles can be fun. For a number of years I would find good buys and then resell them on eBay, this paid for a number of our toys, including a jet ski, motorcycle, and guns/ammo (until they were all lost in a terrible boating accident). Now my side hustle is running a Vrbo/Airbnb cottage that is some work but a lot of fun. Kids need to know about money, but they don’t necessarily need to have all of the information, at least until their are more mature, but we strived to ensure that our kids knew the value of money. They always had to pay for their own cell phones and their monthly service. We followed Dave R’s suggestion of paying for half of our daughter’s first car (and she was responsible for her insurance) and this worked out well, you would be surprised how well kids take care of things if they pay for them with their own money.

[@DigitalHaze65536]

@@anniesshenanigans3815 He also doesn't realize that people that do physical work really get worn out.

[@ralphholiman7401]

The best advice I ever received about social security, was to invest for retirement like social security didn't exist. I collect social security now, but it's a very small part of my retirement income stream.

[@matt75hooper]

You're just amazing. Probably a lifelong govt hack.

[@trex2092]

Mega Dittos. Retired Military, soon to be Retired State Job in18 months, good health, warm climate, many miles on the bike trail each week, I will file when the notion hits me, but not till I retire from my second career.

[@matt75hooper]

@@lesteryounkin6858 That was less than convincing. I can smell a lifelong hack from a mile away.

[@josephmaschak8652]

I agree. If you can't afford to retire without SS, then you can't afford to retire.

[@barrythehatchet1380]

And here is what everyone is missing> Would you invest in a company that makes $3.5 billion and spends $6 billion and is $33 billion in debt? Would you trust that company's retirement? Add three 0's and a coma and you get the US Government. See a problem?

[@Eye_Witness]

I took mine at 62 and glad I did. After my source of income was shut down during Covid, I would have lost my home and gotten behind in all of my bills except the Social Security each month and some savings to draw on helped me keep current.

[@bobbytheblade2550]

I am taking Social Security at age 62 - period, and Ramsey is 100% right, but one must be prepared. We began growing net worth in our mid-20's, Eliminating debt was a priority, The formula was simple: live beneath our means, save/invest. We became debt free in our 40's and fully retired in our 50's. We mostly kept quiet until retirement after raising 5 kids - all offered the opportunity for college. People were shocked. Today, we're pushing age 60 - fully retired and loving the life of security and abundance.

[@trewright1482]

Congrats to you. I'm 42 and working towards your reality.

[@fremontpathfinder8463]

Not everyone can do that

[@MrCountrycuz]

U R the blade!

[@davejones8847]

Important for both to be on same financial page

[@thep751]

All offered and not all taken? Big difference unless you are very wealthy with today's cost of colleges. Each kid can potentially cost over 400k for 4 years of college.

[@wilhelmtaylor9863]

I have studied the cash flow of filing at various ages between 62 & 70 and found that if you live until the AVERAGE age of death (as published by SSN actuarial tables) you will get EXACTLY the same amount of money no matter when you file. It's roughly $360,000 for those who have contributed the max each month. You heard that correctly. The SAME AMOUNT. You just decide how small/large the monthly payout should be over a shorter/longer period. If you think you'll live longer than the average you're better off waiting until the last month to collect. If you are in poor health and think you won't make it much longer you should take as much as you can as EARLY as you can.

[@Muffin192213]

Exactly correct, i ran the numbers for my case and came to the same conclusion

[@williamjacobs]

Great way to break it down. Thanks! My dad died at 69. I thought I'd beat him, but I think COVID clobbered me a little. I don't know anymore. Great food for thought.

[@susancook1448]

I filed at 70. My parents lived until 97 and 94 so gambled on that although I’m less healthy. So hard to decide! But after you do don’t look back. Clicking out of this video for thst reason!

[@wilhelmtaylor9863]

@@susancook1448 → Perfect analysis.

[@networkteacher1]

Same basic conclusion, but spousal benefit was the ultimate persuasion to wait it out for more.

[@davidramos9516]

Totally up to the individual. I chose to begin collecting at 62 for several reasons. I had quadruple bypass at 56. I did not want to continue working full time at my job. It was stressful. I did however start an IRA at 28. My wife and I have a nice nest egg. Still in the stock market. Still playing lotto! 🙂

[@garyjones3142]

Lotto ! A tax on the stupid.

[@garyjones3142]

@neal cassady It mostly comes down to a lifestyle choice, diet, exercise and state of mind, also healthy choices of food and obesity!

[@JBM425]

You made an informed decision and had valid reasons for taking early SocSec benefits. You also prepared ahead of time with a substantial IRA to make up for the reduced benefits.

[@markpashia7067]

Yes sir. At 48 yo I had to go to disability and I am now 68. Don't know how much longer I have but it could be a while (or not) but I am glad I had Soc Sec Disability as it was my only income. I was a single parent without child support and my youngest had just gone off to boot camp when I got sick I held on for three more years and then filed. So the only thing I got was my benefit but without that I would not have survived. So much more than retirement and people seem to forget that.

[@hersdera]

Retirees who struggle to meet their basic needs are the ones who could not accumulate enough money during their active years to meet their needs. Retirement choices determines a lot of things, my parents both spent same number of years in the medical profession, my mom was investing through a financial advisor while my dad through the 401k. On retirement, my mom retired with about $5million, while my dad retired with roughly $3.8million.

[@nicolasbenson009]

It’s unfortunate most people don’t have such information, I don’t really blame people who panic cos lack of information can be a big hurdle. I’ve been making more than $25k passively by just investing through an advisor, and I don’t have to do much work. It doesn’t matter if the economy is crashing, great CFA will always make good returns.

[@nicolasbenson009]

My financial advisor is "Margaret Johnson Arndt " she’s highly qualified and experienced in the financial market. She has extensive knowledge of portfolio diversification and is considered an expert in the field, I recommend researching his credentials further. She has many years of experience and is a valuable resource for anyone looking to navigate the financial market.

[@williamharris5957]

As if everyone can do that? Nice story

[@williamharris5957]

I've been working since age 14 to current 51. I do have a solid teamsters pention and I live almost debt free. Middle class is fine.

[@gg80108]

After retired one figures out how the medical profession ripped off they country.

[@SuzanneU]

I'm 63 and have never, not even once, had a letter from SS asking what I want to do. I get a letter once a year telling me that my latest statement is now available. As I opted for paperless, this report is online. Prior to paperless, I received a paper statement. It's in no way different to my bank statement. The caller is delusional or projecting his own spin onto the statement. I wonder if he thinks his bank statement or utilities bill is asking him what he wants to do!

[@sagegriot2455]

I was thinking the same thing wrt “receiving a series of letters from SSA”. I’m 66 and only receive the annual statement.

[@frederickruderman2997]

It was BS, Social Security never sends a letter. Everyone involved here has an agenda

[@silverstar4289]

Yeah, that is odd. My mailing just says what I will receive at which point I decide to draw. Now, my utilities bill tells me if I don’t pay, I don’t receive utilities.

[@moniquemonicat]

I think he's a little confused and rightly so. He probably actually referring to the barrage of advertisements from Medicare brokers and services that also include info about social security. I got so many of these I started a file and just added all of them into it. He's age 61 which is about the time that stuff started coming to me too. Most of the Medicare stuff links info about social security so if he was just glancing at it and then tossing it, he might have assumed it was from social security, as many of these sellers DO try to make themselves sound like they're affiliated with ss. Not all of them but for sure some of the more hinky ones do.

[@annamelanie5151]

Excellent point. Good to read other commenters were like me. No such inquiries from SS, ever. A little delusion mixed with lack of curiosity regarding impact on his wife’s benefits.

[@markmizner87]

I as well got my second level of financial education from Mr Ramsey. Like you, after I was debt free and still learning about finances, I realized that not all of what Dave said was solid advice for my situation. Love that you put the numbers to the test and explained them so anyone can understand them. Super job on this video!

[@fuzzyelm1]

Of you followed Dave at all you should have caught just how stupid this clowns numbers were ! He made up numbers that have never happened in history ! Even he admitted Dave was correct but then he started saying stupid stuff like what if your investment lost 5% average over 20 years ! In that case you was the worst investor ever , and not following what Dave suggest you use to invest in , which is mutual funds and those have not lost money over a 10 year period much less a 20 year stretch! And if you use real numbers and figures you will see that Dave was 100% correct! There has never been a time when the market dropped average 5% in a long time frame ! So you can’t just say what if your investment lost 5% because that’s not real ! Now if you only averaged 5% gain you could still see better results from taking money early than doing it later ! And that’s even never happened in history ! So where do you get this clown had good numbers

[@dougrobinson5830]

I am debt free. Home paid off. Retired with decent savings. Did that with common sense. Dave who?

[@Evanplays15]

@@dougrobinson5830 Great point

[@testodude]

i view Dave Ramsey's advice the same I way I view the advice given in the old financial primer "The Richest Man in Babylon"-- it's more inspirational than informational. Pay your debts down, live within your means, save your money. Financial truisms that your grandpa might give you. There's truth there, but not the details specific to an individual's situation. Getting those details is on you.

[@fuzzyelm1]

@butch noneed education has nothing to do with it ! Knowledge is what gets you ahead in life ! Being indoctrinated is what kids get in schools

[@susieq9186]

I appreciate your critical thinking skills. Absolutely loved seeing how you analyzed all this and blown away with all your comments on the things we need to take into consideration. That's why a specialist like yourself is so valuable. Thank you!

[@DevinCarroll]

I appreciate that!

[@user-qc8vj3vp9v]

Totally agree Susie Q. Devin Carroll is truly providing an invaluable financial education on money in retirement and how it affects us or will if we are not prepared. I also love how he explains things in an easy to understand manner so that everyone watching and listening can grasp and comprehend what he is saying. Keep up the excellent work you are doing Mr. Carroll; awesome!👍🏼👏🏼🕺🏽🙏🕉☮

[@brucefredrickson9677]

Yes, you did a deep-dive on this.

[@barrythehatchet1380]

There is a huge assumption in this advice. The entity that you are relying on is $33 trillion in debt, and they keep whistling past the graveyard...

[@340rps]

I needed a new $12000 dollar motorcycle so I took mine at 62. BEST thing I ever did

[@simonbad]

What happened to SVB is really scary, and goes to show that no corporation, however big, is immune to collapse. I have always had a deep-seated mistrust for corporations. I have plans to pull out most of my money, but don't know what to do with $350k sitting idly. I'd like to go into the stock market, maybe. Any ideas?

[@Erinmills98]

All big corps are just a cohort of centralised system working together, and any damage to one can have a dangerous ripple effect on every other one. I learned a long time ago to not trust corporations. Most of my money is in the stock market and my businesses. I keep only what I need to spend in my checking account.

[@IrenaDolinsek]

@@Erinmills98 Ironically, these are the conditions in which life-changing money is made by those who remain calm, patient, and take controlled risks. Volatility goes both ways. The banks are in a big crisis. The market looks very shaky. The bigger the red candles, the bigger the green ones. I have made over $280k in the last 4 months by investing through my FA.

[@AstaKristjan]

@@IrenaDolinsek Wow. I've heard similar success story from people who work with advisors. How do I get in touch with yours, please?

[@IrenaDolinsek]

@@AstaKristjan I happen to know Michelle Christine Parker, She has been my fin coach since 2018, no major losses has been recorded. Totally recommend her too.

[@AstaKristjan]

@@IrenaDolinsek I appreciate your kind hint, i will definitely look her up.

[@July.4.1776]

When it comes to SS I will always follow Devin’s advice👍…… Dave is fine for getting out of debt that’s his wheelhouse…..

[@bernie472]

Agreed.

[@RobertEdwards-tx2eh]

Wife started collecting at age 65 I'm rethinking maybe she should have waited till she was 66, is there any way that she can start over before her first full year? In other words wait till she's 66 and 10 months is there any way that you can reverse what she's been collecting for the last 5 months, please refer back to me Bob her husband and if we can find out some information and if so it's really hard to get a hold of anybody at Social Security that knows what they're doing they gave you the standard answers in the state of Idaho

[@340rps]

That is your loss

[@edhurtado4784]

⁠@@RobertEdwards-tx2ehYes. Within the first year you can reverse your age-start election, but have to return all benefits received*. Thereafter, when you claim again in the future, you will receive a larger benefit amount. This is stated in ssa.gov. * I do not know if you have to repay in one lump sum or if installments are allowed.

[@judywhite7782]

​@@RobertEdwards-tx2eh- IF you Pay it Back in the First year is My understanding.. This FB grp has Retired Ss agents that can answer better, but Don't wait much longer.. (Social Security Intelligence Member's Group) I Highly recommend them for questions...gl. (Ps, I'm 65, trying to Wait till 68-70, no previous Spouse to draw from. So....

[@tikkin11]

Dave is a lot like my barking dog. Sometimes it is good, protective, and possibly life saving. Other times it is a false alarm and of great annoyance.

[@Retire-py2yk]

LOL.. u described it all..

[@DevinCarroll]

Ha! You described my lab perfectly.

[@Dave-zl2ky]

Great observation.

[@iheartnatur3]

Lol. Dave is good in getting you out of debts that’s for sure.

[@DatKat]

yep.... the 3 legged squirrel AGAIN

[@wendypulaski5000]

Thank you for sharing I used Dave's program paying off almost 200k of debt and I am saving 1/4 of my pay towards my retirement in 2.4 years I really do dave' ish but the impact on my life is wow, I live your show and how you are educating people like myself

[@jimvorndran9438]

I’ve watched dozens and dozens of KZbin videos on this topic. Devin has the most useful information.

[@jojowhite9296]

If you have a nice stress free, non-physical job, wait until age 70. I turned 62 on a Wednesday and retired the following day back in 2021. I worked outside for practically my entire life and as you age, the elements (freezing cold winters and suffering humid summers) take a toll on you. I earned a decent wage and receive a really good SS payment and I receive an even larger pension check, so I'm going to enjoy life.

[@marktaflinger6348]

Great job breaking down this Dave Ramsey video. Mr. Ramsey should stick with getting people out of debt and leave investing and Social Security to the experts.

[@johnthompson5792]

exactly, people shouldn't go to pizza hut for a good hamburger!

[@shelbylowery2188]

No..not the “experts”

[@shanechostetler9997]

The best advice Dave the caller is to know when you’re going to die!

[@TheLifetraveler1]

Agreed. It kills me how the wealthy, get on the high and mighty, how other folks who make a lot less than them, should survive. Because that is what we are doing, surviving. He assumes you get to work until you die, then take your social security benefits 24 hours, before they put you in the ground.

[@matthewgardner2144]

Dave has a wildly crazed political slant against anything Big Gubmint, except for military spending. So it colors his perceptions of social security. And yes, he lives in his head in the 1980s regarding investment advice.

[@jefftatchio6091]

Utah Jeff …. Here…. I am an avid follower of your channel and I really appreciate your information you provide. The problem I see with Dave Ramsey is there is a more of an entertainment factor. He also has personally benefited from his show. While, some of his ideas are right on …. In a credit world you cannot even rent an apartment without a credit score. As a property manager-Realtor I turn people down daily for that reason

[@jdollar5852]

I had to cosign on an apartment for my daughter to attend a school and pursue a PhD in medical science. Her stipend wasn't enough. I'm retired so have no W2 to send them so they said to send them a copy if my bank statement. That was no good because it didn't show how my income was generated. I sent snapshots of my investment accounts and the snotty little kid making $ 15 an hour almost fell over himself approving the application. The credit industry can kiss my fat behind all the way to my beach condo, bison ranch in Montana, and farm in Georgia.

[@diggernash1]

If you have money, you can get approved; and credit is not needed to create that money.

[@grega2362]

My son doesnt have a CC. He just rented a place near where his first real job is. No problem, no CC.

[@yankinwaoz]

This is excellent. The problem with people who claim that they would be better off keeping their FICA taxes and investing it themselves is that they aren't comparing like-to-like, just like Devin said. They are comparing an insurance product against an investment product. It doesn't work. That would be similar to saying "If I don't bother to insure my house, and stick those homeowner insurance premiums in an investment account, then 50 years down the line I will be better off." Yes that true, as long as you didn't have to file a claim. If you can go your whole life without filing a claim, then you lost your bet with your insurance company. They got your money and you now have nothing to show for it. Social Security is a bundle of three wage insurance programs. That's it. It is designed to protect you and your family from the loss of your wages through disability, death, or old-age. Simple as that. The retired people that collect SS benefits and complain that SS didn't do anything for them forget that they are lucky that they managed to reach retirement without becoming disabled or dying. They conveniently forget that back when they were working, the SSA was protecting them with disability and survivor insurance. Now they look at the premiums they paid for that protection as wasted, just like the homeowners insurance example. So to these people who make this comparison, I usually challenge them to to buy insurance that replicated the protections that SS gives them. They must get DI that covers them until age 67. They must get an deferred lifetime annuity that allows has inflation protection. They must get life insurance that covers their surviving spouse for life, with inflation protection. All of these insurance products must allow premium gaps. And they must be AAA rated. Now total up those premiums and compare that to what you are paying in FICA taxes every year. Good luck!

[@jetpro3]

Now that was a great comment.

[@josephjuno9555]

Wow! That is such a good way of explaining Soc Sec? Best I have ever seen! Well done!

[@Dbb27]

Excellent, excellent comment. I’ve never thought about social security in those terms. I’m all for social security. When I have read what went on during the depression with millions of people plunged into poverty I have always been a supporter of our SS system.

[@josecuellar1446]

Devin, you are 100% correct: Ramsey is like salt on your food. I am now on a salt-free diet. Thanks for the video!

[@byronrogers4489]

Social media experts. Bless their hearts.

[@davidpowell3347]

Once you have been paying the tax for a while you have a stake in the system and naturally,you don't want to lose it. Still a point of contention,if you didn't pay the tax (and the hidden other half that your employer paid) and conscientiously invested all of that money that you saved by avoiding that tax into your own investment accounts would you come out ahead? Still,is the guarantee worth something in that investments might not do as well as one would have hoped or expected ? also a lot of people benefit from "forced savings" which is what the Social Security tax is; because with a lot of people "money burns a hole in their pocket" .

[@DevinCarroll]

It's an unfortunate reality... If we could opt out and invest ourself, many people wouldn't. This would cause massive issues with entitlement/welfare programs.

[@PAIDFOR50]

So your saying that the government should control people's money because they are not responsible enough to manage their own money. Stock market for 100 years has done just fine. Wow! Sad to read this.

[@bman6502]

@@PAIDFOR50 my question to you; let’s say we allow folks to opt out and those folks fail to invest properly over the course of their working career. Now they are at the age where they can’t work and have no savings and no income… I’m not sure that’s good for our country???? We’d have a lot of old people on the streets…. We have to realize, there are many Americans that don’t have or are not interested in long term savings…… I’m not a big fan of government control, but some times it’s necessary

[@TheLifetraveler1]

We were fortunate enough to have a pension plan before I retired. My company which is a major one you've heard of, no longer offers a pension plan. Some folks took a lump sum when the company tried to convince them that would be better than getting a pension for life. Most did not pay off bills and reduce their debt and that money is gone. So they're going to have to work until they die.

[@bman6502]

@@TheLifetraveler1 you make a great point why we should never privatize SS or make it optional… yes, some on the right will say that’s just government control, but in this case it’s wise for our country to have this program… once you get 62, your employment options become limited…

[@janetwatts4110]

I really appreciate this video. I’m also a Dave Ramsey fan. You were so respectful. Great information-very helpful! Thank you!

[@thenaturalmidsouth9536]

Ramsey is a charlatan.

[@mgallegos4708]

Dave Ramsey’s porch swing advice has been a boon for him. He’s not a financial advisor (licensed) nor an insurance agent, nor a series 6-7 advisor. He’s a marketer. Taking most of his advice is like managing your use of table salt. Good analysis.

[@gjb1788]

I followed Dave's plan long enough to be debt free. But that's where we parted...5 years before retirement we lived on estimated SS benefits the transition was seamless...

[@TheLifetraveler1]

I did the same thing when I realized that a major layoff in our corporation was about to come. I paid off every single thing that I owned including the house mortgage. So when it was time to finally collect my social security, which I did early, there was no stress here. There has been no stress since. Dave needs to deal with the other folks who just do stupid stuff.

[@meljordan220]

I worked for Social Security for almost 18 years. Everything this man has said is spot on. There are more factors to consider when you think about social security. One other thing I talk to my clients about is what is your budget look like. What dollar amount do you need on a monthly basis to make ends meet? If somebody takes an age 62 benefit and gets $1,200 a month but they need $2,000 they're going to fall short. By waiting they will either get closer to that $2,000 amount or exceed it making Social Security a wonderful addition to retirement planning. Social Security was only meant to cover about 1/4 of your retirement income. So many Americans rely upon it as 100% of their income. The only bad thing I see about Social Security is that people end up relying on that instead of investing along the way to supplement their Social Security. It's sort of gives people a false sense of security and retirement and they don't think they have to save. By educating people, that mindset can change and our retired population does not have to eat dog food if they plan ahead.

[@lisaravin7339]

I have seen so many people retire and die shortly thereafter. I had a dear sweet boss who worked until she was 75 and passed 6 months later.

[@kevindahlenburg6014]

Depends a lot on staying active and engaged

[@tcwaterdrill]

My oldest sister decided to wait untill she was 70 to take social secuirty. At 68 she came down with cancer, she had always watched what she ate, did not smoke, made sure she took vitamins every day. Stayed very active for her age, her doctors bragged about how good her health was. Then one day she had problems that turned out to be cancer. She then started drawing social security at 68 1/2 spent the next 4 years having operation and radiation and cemo being made sick by the treatments. In the end she told the doctors no more she was to tired to continue and that they would have to put off buying that new boat until another cancer patient walked into their office. she got to draw social security for 4 years instead of 10 years by not start drawing at 62. Everybody needs to decide for themself.

[@brucefredrickson9677]

Exactly, we never know what the future may bring....she also could have lived t0 99 and ran out of money.

[@roseother8306]

SHE DID DECIDE FOR HERSELF sorry for your loss.

[@nicknaseman2632]

Dave Ramsey is good at helping people get out of debt but should stay away from offering investment advice. His magic 12% mutual fund and now this advice on Social Security is going to hurt more people than it helps. Keep up the great work!

[@kelleychilton2524]

His advice on indebtedness is quite good, but his investment advice has always been based on iffy assumptions ... the worst being his insistence on earning an annualized 12% return. That may have been doable from the late 1980's throughout the 1990's, but that ship has sailed.

[@KatsDad]

@@kbbkbbkbbkbbkbb I completely agree with you

[@amarillodoc]

Since 1958, a portfolio consisting of 100% stocks has an average return of 12%. That is where he gets that number.

[@wesjimez2941]

He does back down on the 12% returns. He says between 10 to 12%. 10% is much more reasonable. I use about a 9% return, but that assumes 100% in the S&P 500

[@TheDriller100]

lol says the guy with two pennie's in his pocket 1990 to 2020: S&P’s average was 11.55%. 1985 to 2015: S&P’s average was 12.36%. 1980 to 2010: S&P’s average was 12.71%2 it's avg, last year mine gave me 26.89% and next year it might do 4% .. learn what avg is !!

[@kburkes4245]

I'm not a follower of Dave Ramsey, and I really don't like the tone of what I have seen of him. I appreciate the positive wisdom of Devin Carroll.

[@TheLifetraveler1]

Kate, Dave is okay if you are in the position to implement his beliefs. But he is stuck in an income bubble, and can't see that others can't survive based on his advice, because they don't have the income to start with.

[@10Vernonplace]

Yes I don’t like his condescending attitude when SS works well for lower income folks

[@orangemanonsteroids8569]

lol you guys don’t like being called out for your stupidity. Huh fatherless homes. 😂

[@guitarcountry1]

I have been living pretty much the Dave Ramsey Plan since 1985. Dave is younger than I am, so his program didn't exist. But his concepts mesh with what I learned through the school of hard knocks. So here we are in almost 2025, 40 years later, and I can tell you investing $166 a month which I did for many years will give you a great retirement. It worked really good for me. And yes, I have SS, but I didn't depend on it, because I wasn't sure whether it would go broke before I reached retirement age. So at this point, SS is the frosting on the cake, not the cake itself. I can tell you from talking with many other Baby Boomers who have very little beside SS, that saving and investing towards your retirement really works! Dave Ramsey is changing lives of those who will listen.

[@340rps]

You got sucked in by his half truths.

[@striperkid]

I'm retiring next year at 56 and I'll collect SS at 62. I'll work on my golf game for those 6 years !

[@siglandoe3913]

Our good friend Dave acts like such an expert. In his situation, it really doesn’t matter if he is wrong because he is not at all depending on social security. I’ve been on disability since age 64. I haven’t started a pension or social security, and at age 66 my disability is half my income, essentially the same as my pension, and I’m doing just fine.

[@LMae-rj9qi]

Awesome! Happy 4 you!

[@340wbymag]

Here is my advice; Retire as early as possible. Collect your pension and Social Security. Live out the rest of your days as happily as possible. Find yourself. Take up a hobby. Walk frequently. Take on a part-time job if you get bored. Be a kid again. Climb a tree. There is little time to waste, so enjoy life.

[@allenpriest8985]

Why not do work that matters and makes a difference so continuing to do it is a joy???

[@larryrichards6099]

It was a no brainer when I hit 62. Fuck working! If I hadn't been fucked out of the job I loved at age 52, I'd still be there.

[@garyjones3142]

Slacker.

[@randolphh8005]

2 major points. 1) the math you did was very good, Social Security is better for low earners than for high earners based on wage weighting and “bend points”. So for less than average earners it is an even better deal(and for high earners not so much). 2) The extra perks of Social Security can be substantial as you touched on. Disability benefits are important and will include access to Medicare. Spousal benefits, survivor benefits, and dependent benefits can significantly increase payments to families and individuals. We were able to access some of these when we had to adopt a granddaughter, and this completely changed the math of taking a little early. Lastly it is much closer to a guarantee than one gets in the market.

[@that_heretic]

The biggest impact of SS is its macro effect(s) on the overall economy. It keeps millions of consumers, consuming. SS is dirt cheap for the value it provides society, if anything we should look at ways to make the payouts larger.

[@edwardtedesco5388]

Really ? Where does the ss stop come into play in all of this ? Depending on earnings there is a lot of taxation that is avoided !!! I’d rather see a bottom line tax on all earnings with no deduction . Personally speaking the child tax credit is a joke that doesn’t compare to the cost of raising kids and if you aren’t in that upper 10% you are getting screwed

[@randolphh8005]

@@edwardtedesco5388 I’m not clear on what you mean by SS “stop”. The child tax credit is something completely different than Social Security Depedent benefits, which can be $1500 or more PER MONTH. Social Security income should not be taxed at all since it is created by a tax on income. It is clearly double taxation.

[@340rps]

Math was horrid!

[@Scott-be1cq]

I ran the numbers and basically around 80 is when the retire early versus late difference kicks in. The first time that I would have made an extra dollar more with filing at full or even late instead of early. This is without investing any of the monthly money but just spending it all each month. The one very important factor left out is time, we don't get any more, those 5 years or more are worth more than a few thousand dollars when you are around 80. It is different for each person, however if you are in good financial shape at 62, and you don't have a job that you just love, or you have any type of illness that might reduce your life expectance than 62 is absolutely the way to go. The numbers are one thing, the freedom to enjoy more of your life is something you can't get back.

[@hilarywalton1143]

Yes. I took the money early because my retirement money is fine and the average lifespan of my family is low. I use the money from SS for my hobbies which I doubt I will be able to do in my late 70s. Can’t take money with you!

[@jeffro221]

That caller has NEVER received multiple letters from social security "asking him what he wants to do" about his social security, and especially not at age 61. Sure. In fact, he has not received any letter at all from SS asking what he wants to do. They use to send unsolicited letters where they enclose an estimate of your future pension benefit, and they have stopped doing that quite some time ago. They don't contact you like they are your personal advisers. People make up baloney like that because it makes them feel important. .

[@mdgraystone]

I think you’re right. I don’t get letters like that guy claims. Ever. I used to get an annual estimate, as you said but those stopped around ten years ago. Bottom line is we have to be proactive, do tons of research and ask the right questions. And be wary of “experts” who are often selling something.

[@JM-gz1ej]

I was wondering about those alleged letters too.

[@jeffro221]

@@JM-gz1ej I received ONE letter from SS reminding me that I needed to apply for my SS pension, only because I was approaching my 70th birthday and about to max out. The letter was a reminder (that I appreciated even though I was well aware) that I should apply so as not to miss out. There was never any other letter all through the years in my 60's inquiring what I wanted to do about my SS pension.

[@timbo1163]

I caught that as well. I am 67 and never got letters from ssa asking what I wanted to do. I did however get flooded with letters inviting me to various seminars sponsored by investment companies (usually in a nice restaurant with a free meal). Most of these companies wanted me to turn over my 401k to them and/or sell me an annuity. He may be actually referring to all of that kind of correspondence.

[@jeffro221]

@@timbo1163 He specifically said he got the letters from Social Security. He just likes to make up stories and feel important.

[@gregshanor669]

As well as people with disablities who are on Disability & struggling to live on SSI etc

[@tealatata]

disability is t something you can wait for you’re either disabled or you aren’t

[@diggernash1]

Why is an indivual's disability the responsibility of the federal government?

[@gregshanor669]

There's all kinds of disablities: physical disablities & the invisible ones that no one can see. Both of these can hinder a person s quality of life making them a prisoner of their disablities. Our society , while has been able to do things for Both the Disabled community & the elderly as well. People with disablities struggle with finding a job( especially if they have a physical disablities), struggle even more so finding quality housing that they can afford, as well as the cost of living especially now that everything is continuing to go up with no end in sight. While social security is a good idea for people with disablities. It's just not enough to have the quality of life that everyone else takes for granted. While you maybe thinking have a person with a Disability work. While there maybe a few jobs in the workplace for people with disablities compared to someone who is non-disabled. As well as a person with disablities may not be able only be able underemployed: limited hours( under part time) and limited pay( Sub min wage) with no benefits, no retirement etc based on how well his job proformace @ the company he's at & if you think he would get a second job to help cover the cost s like everyone else..... Depending on If there's a job in his area and Would hire him then ok. But oftentimes there's not. Companies now a days want people who will make them a profitable. Not someone who might be a liability and cost them more money to have around which is why unless it's a big company people with disablities, the elderly etc. oftentimes have a hard time struggling to find employment. Unless you have a great job history that falls into what the company is looking for you're going to struggle finding a job disabled or non disabled etc. I understand correctly that times are hard this is no short fix because these are long term problems, have been rooted deep in societys beliefs and judgemental criticism stigmatising bias etc there's no one answer that will fix this problem but continuing to keep things as they are hurts everyone especially the people with disablities etc who are struggling to live the best life that they can for themselves their families & others in their lives just like everyone else in our society

[@diggernash1]

@@gregshanor669 Again, how does ameliorating any of those effects become the responsibility of the federal government? I understand life is harder for the disabled, but on what legal basis can the able be intentionally harmed to improve the lives of the disabled?

[@gregshanor669]

@@diggernash1 so who's responsibly is it in your opinion??? Yes there's the Americans with Disablities Act which is a good benchmark for people with disablities but it's needs to go farther than what it's originally designed for because our society has changed since it was implimented back in the early 90's. It needs to be updated improved upon just like the SSI program hasn't been changed updated since it inseption back in the early 70's. Over 50 years ago.

[@davidderosa8113]

Nice job. This is a fair, pragmatic, breakdown of the numbers. Like it or not, SS is here and it is to our benefit that we learn how to deal with it in the best manner. For me, SS will be one of multiple income streams in retirement, allowing me to defer/reduce the amount of funds I withdraw from my retirement savings. #Ihaveaplan

[@tonymanero5544]

That right. The average SS recipient receiving average of about $1,500/month is better off in the current DB system compared to high earners who want a DC or cash balance system. The high earners have wealth that is 2-10x of what they have in SS. Let them mess with personal wealth and mess with the DB plan that works well for the average person.

[@joshhoward1289]

Right on

[@randyk7699]

To the caller: Social Security does NOT send letters prompting Social Security! that is BS

[@myvenusheeler]

That was my exact thought upon hearing that.

[@DevinCarroll]

I assumed the caller was talking about the benefits estimate and not an actual letter from the SSA that asked about his filing intentions.

[@gregwessels7205]

@@DevinCarroll Does the SSA still do that or did I opt-out. I could have opted-out as I can just go to their site and get what I need.

[@tylerminix2028]

They send benefit estimates. Caller is using a figure of speech. Do try and keep up.

[@cjeccher8128]

Taking early and investing could work better but taxes on SS will reduce the amount to invest even more

[@ddenuci]

At 1:41, the caller claims that he receives letters from SS "wanting to know what I want to do", and the assumption is he's referring to when to start taking SS. I don't think SS generally sends out letters to folks who are 61 and still working asking them when they want to take SS.

[@MartinWaide]

Very well reasoned video. Dave Ramsey also says that your income is your greatest wealth driver. As a 64 year old still able to work, I intend to both maximize my earned income from working year's and max my social security from postponing receiving social security benefits. We need to see our ability to work and be productive into our senior years as one of life's greatest blessings

[@wjwelchusa]

Excellent, reasoned explanations Devin. The thoughtful explanations are appreciated.

[@DevinCarroll]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ghggp1]

I love Dave for many money matters! In this example for SS, not so much. Appreciate you analytical approach to this topic. Your perspective is way more plausible to me than Dave’s.

[@Retiredmco]

I'm with D. R 95% of the time. But I agree with Devin that D. R missed the fact Tracy still working. And you bump up against that earnings limit quick.

[@JayP-kd5rc]

I totally agree with you. I'll go with Devin Carroll.

[@DevinCarroll]

Dave has a knack for telling it straight. I respect that, but the SS system is pretty complex.

[@TheWilferch]

..and....assuming year-over-year 12% return on your investment.....in an unwavering fashion, year-over-year....is not realistic.... and can bite back hard......

[@bradk7653]

@@TheWilferch but if you don’t sell on a downturn then it doesn’t actually bite, in most cases you come out ahead because the downturns are buying opportunities. No one has ever lost money on a mutual fund investment if they don’t sell. This is one reason that Dave R recommends against individual stocks, an individual stock can go to zero, but a mutual fund will not because it is made up of hundreds or thousands of stocks and other investments and it is not realistic that they all will go bankrupt at the same time.

[@TheWilferch]

@@bradk7653 ....so much to say, and there isn't enough time and space to go deeper into each of these points you bring up. But in summary.....any "plan" that uses 12% year over year increases is plain buts. Won't happen. Next....no doubt buying on the "dip" is a buying opportunity but this is (in practice) more easily said than done...as the dip is only really known afterwards, when it's too late. Many people get into trouble timing the in's-n-out's. And lastly....I also used to think diversification was the answer to spread risk, but being in and looking at the market for some decades now......I have come to realize that market trends seem to bridge all sectors....meaning...the market kinda moves in sync. I never had diversification help much in this respect. And then this....all this is interesting sidebars as to investment strategy, but it deflects a bit on the focus point of the discussion, ....the unsoundness of Dave's "plan" using 12% continuous returns in his pro/con arguments. Cheers.

[@strothermartin5368]

I took mine at 62, tomorrow is not guaranteed.

[@davisholman8149]

Both my father & my brother died at 63!😟. My fellow Americans - we are not guaranteed tomorrow. Eat the cookie🍪, take the trip🏞

[@strothermartin5368]

@@davisholman8149 👍

[@tranger4579]

My mother said the same thing.

[@strothermartin5368]

@@davisholman8149 I'm gonna eat more than a cookie 😆

[@edhurtado4784]

How about the earning limitations test before FRA? The caller did say he was going to continue working, so is investing the SS benefit not a moot point to discuss as a result (the caller would not actually receive any benefit assuming his earnings are twice the threshold)?

[@KatieLibby1315]

Funny that Christian Dave forgets that SS was designed to provide for those who work their whole life and need a support system for their later years. It's not just about getting the most for yourself. Our SS taxes support a system for disabled, survivors and, children who lose their parents.

[@warrenkatz1469]

Ramsey has become a right winger who believes ,only people of means should be protected from the big bad government. He forgets he used a goverment program To save him, bankruptcy !

[@scottward1002]

I don’t think Dave Ramsey ever did physical work in his life sounds like he had a silver spoon from a young age

[@wlonsdale1]

SS is unsustainable. Chances are I’ll never see a dime I am forced to pay in. It’s a scam

[@NorthStarPNW]

@@NoBody11010 Congress can easily avoid SS collapse by (some or all of) changing the contribution rate, means-testing payouts, (gradually) raising FRA, etc. The math is easy but Congress needs to act on it yesterday. Mostly likely they WILL save SS but only at the last minute when it will be more expensive, disruptive and traumatic than it had to be.

[@diggernash1]

Government can not be charitable. That is a fallacy. Charity can only be based on money given away voluntarily. Government assistance programs are based on theft, unless there is an option to opt out.

[@JayP-kd5rc]

Sure it's nice to be able to retire early, but later on when you are collecting SS, you want it to be the full amount each month. That is what mattered to me. I started collecting at 66, my full retirement age, than worked part time for another couple of years. This way, my husband and I could use the SS checks I got to pay down our loan and bills, before I fully retired. Worked out great for us. I know people who took it early, and are now complaining about being broke and having to work. Would rather have the most I can each month from SS when older and need it. Thanks for another great video Devin.

[@DevinCarroll]

Most people seem to underestimate how long they'll live. Thanks for watching!

[@randolphh8005]

@@DevinCarroll Actually as a health care professional, I find that lower income persons underestimate, and upper income overestimate. Also people who already have health issues often ignore them. In the end as we know, the “break even” is usually 12-15 years of benefits. And most people do not understand the survivor benefit issue and how that impacts the couples claiming strategy.

[@TheLifetraveler1]

If you can work until you are 66, good. But a ton of my co-workers including me, (working for a large company you know) were let go just before we got to the age of our company's retirement age. Since most of us were about the same age, you can conclude it was to avoid paying out in the pension plan. Hmm! Now, as an older person, age discrimination is real. So getting a nice paying job at an older age, is not easy. I took mine at 62, because I made sure I was debt free first. Have no regrets. One thing people don't know who choose to wait is if the program would be there. The last 3 months of the Trump Terror, he stop SS payroll tax deductions. SS Administration sent a letter to congress, that if this continued (he said if re-elected he wanted to get rid of social security), that the whole system, would be dead by the summer of 2023. So, 'no money for you', or me!

[@trex2092]

@@TheLifetraveler1 OH yes, the President Trump era, the economy was booming, gas was cheap, no war in Ukraine, border wall was going up, crime was down. Move to Kalifornistan and drink the Rainbow Stew buttercup.

[@hubster4477]

If you live long enough to enjoy it for awhile.

[@tonybrown2969]

As a financial planner, we can't assume double digit returns every time. It's good to ask people if they are receptive to working to FRA. First, having insurance to Medicare age saves a lot of money, and at least with FRA, you can avoid hitting the earnings test on the SS benefits. Ideally, you start SS after you retire so you don't have to live exclusively off of your investments, meanwhile accruing the 8% annual increases in SS until you actually need the cashflow. To get 8%, someone in their 60s must assume more market risk than is normally desired & recommended. The problem with his advice is, you have to consider how one thing affects the other things: tax, maximizing monthly SS benefits, investment uncertainty, health, enjoyment of your job (or lack thereof). I think the budgeting advice is great, but agree with some of these other comments that you need to be more thorough before giving advice on when to draw SS.

[@DevinCarroll]

Thanks Tony...agree 100%!

[@tonybrown2969]

@@DevinCarroll Thanks, I just discovered your channel and appreciate how you explain both sides. Excellent videos!

[@markpashia7067]

Even his debt advice is suspect sometimes as he puts his moral code into some of it. And he assumes everyone is undisciplined because they have an issue. You can have a life change that will put you behind the eight ball but still be disciplined enough to pay off secured debt before paying off unsecured debt just in case another thing slams you and you end up in bankruptcy which he is morally opposed to. His debt pay downs often have you paying down unsecured debt before secured debt because of his morals. I generally believe that he should always be taken with a grain of salt.

[@tonybrown2969]

@@markpashia7067 agreed, we lost a family member and had health issues which is not because of being 'undisciplined'. Ironically, I am a Christian like Ramsey, but feel put off that he has appointed himself as the ultimate authority. I think it's ok to base it off your values, but maybe in a more humble way. You know, these are the principles, but carefully consider your situation, ask for advice, realize your situation is different that your neighbor or friend, etc. etc.

[@Steven-f7v]

I worked for a retirement plan administrator. Our compliance department would never allow us to use a ROR over 8%.

[@doorguru168888]

I rarely hear anyone ever mention the spousal benefit that is a consideration that should be. looked at. when deciding early retirement..

[@TeamJesusOutdoors]

I am a long time fan of DR, however I also do not fully subscribe to all teachings, and you are spot on in this particular discussion.

[@nevillecampbell8019]

I’m a big Dave Ramsey fan and following the 7 steps got me to step 6, but Devin you make some great points that any normal person should consider. Luckily I have a military pension, and will be getting a pension from my second career when I retire this year. Between my wife and I, we are satisfied with filing early. Thank you for all the great SSA Insight.

[@DevinCarroll]

Thanks for watching!

[@trex2092]

Ditto, same boat and investing heavy and holding in TSLA(IRA Account)

[@wsgriffi]

Dave should send the caller over to you to answer his question on SS. I agree with you on Dave not being the know all for everything.

[@DevinCarroll]

Ha...you described my Labrador perfectly.

[@almoemason]

This is such a complicated subject. There are so many things to take into consideration. My dad had always been a low wage earner his whole life. At the time he turned 62 he was single and both of his children were grown. He took social security at 62 being very careful not to earn enough to have a penality (two extra weeks of unpaid vacation). The important thing to him was to have his house paid off when he retired, which he did accomplish. He made a solid 5.9% return on his money (mortgage interest). But more importantly, was the peace of mind tht he had by knowing that with no mortage payment he could retire at 66 with out much change in his life style. He did end up getting a reverse mortgage later on and still had money left at his passing. Now maybe both of those moves were not good finacially, but sometimes there is more to it than money. Also, 12% return? That has alway been hard for most folks. And if you pay someone smart enough to do that for you, you're still not getting 12% because of the vig (yes, I chose that word on purpose, because that is the proper term for the commision you pay when you place a bet).

[@fuzzyelm1]

Reverse mortgage was the dumbest thing he ever did ! That was stupid on his part

[@fuzzyelm1]

Anyone can do 12% long term , hell S and P 500 beats that long term ! Fact is my mutual funds average doubled each 6 years!

[@almoemason]

@@fuzzyelm1 Can you explain why?

[@almoemason]

@@fuzzyelm1 Bankrate says the A&P 500 20 year average is 10.70% and the average mutual fund profit by large retirement income managers is 8.2 %. BUT, you have to have money to invest to make money investing.

[@fuzzyelm1]

@@almoemason if you can’t afford to invest 10% or 15% of your income then you need help with your budget

[@realwarriorscholar]

Thank you for going through the details and considering the spousal option. I’m going to wait until 65!

[@dajw7540]

I’m a Realtor. I said peace-out to Dave Ramsey way back when he started referring clients to Realtors for a fee and told them to charge 7% commission. That’s a lot! He’s supposed to help people cut expenses but that really felt like he was taking advantage of them.

[@stevestewart6287]

I am now 62 years old, and I started collecting my social security this year. I could have waited until I was 67, and got the full payout, but I decided to start collecting it now. for one big reason, I could die of a heart attack tomorrow, or next week, or next year, or 3 years from now. And then I would never get a dime of my social security, the government would get to keep it all, and never pay me a dime. So I am getting it now, and I have been since August. And it was the best decision I ever made. For the next 5 years I will get that check every single month. And all that money will go into my bank account. That's 5 years of monthly checks, and it is a lot of money for me. If I had waited until I was 67, that would be 5 years of checks I would have missed out on. And I never know if I would live until then, or lets say I only live 1 year past the day I turned 67, then I would only get 1 year of checks. So now, as long as I live for 5 more years, I know for sure I will at least get that 5 years of checks. It's a personal decision, and that was my decision. It is less money every month, but it is more than enough for me to live a good lifestyle, for the rest of my life. I also get a small pension from International Paper, but it is not that much. If your health is good, maybe wait until you are 67, if your health is not so good, I would start collecting it at 62 years of age.

[@hannahreese1629]

What do you do about medical insurance?

[@glennm449]

The medicare Part B amount increases also which typically nullifies any cost of living adjustment on social security.

[@twilde3754]

Thank you Devin, I appreciate this video. I, too, followed the basics of Dave Ramsey's philosophy -- no debt, just saving/investing in my last years of working. Beyond that, I don't really pay too much attention to DR. His rants are irritating! Wouldn't it be nice if moving forward we would all get 12% from our investments? Not going to happen in today's stock market. Also, if you take SS at 62, you can't be working full-time...you can only make, what, $19K a year ? --sounds like this man wants to continue to work. I would imagine he makes more than $19K a year and doesn't want that to change. Most importantly, DR is a millionaire and doesn't have the same financial concerns as, say, my mother, who lived off of social security for 20 years until she passed.

[@sherryobar5750]

You're right! If SS is taken before FRA you can only make around $19,500 and then you have to pay back some of the excess. ($1 for every $2 you make over the allowed amount?)

[@bruceellenburg429]

I started drawing mine at 66 years 4 months. I'm drawing over 2300/ month and still working full-time. I do not regret not waiting til 70

[@swind2492]

Did you figure out how much income you will lose yet? My Dad took his early and could only make a certain amount of $$ without getting taxed a bunch. Until he turned 70 he could make as much as he wanted.

[@bruceellenburg429]

@@swind2492 I'm having to pay extra federal taxes, but I'm still coming out ahead. SC doesn't tax social security income.

[@byroncate7558]

I plan to start drawing social security when I quit working. To me that’s the real question. When to retire and quit working. I think for most people, social will be negatively impacted as long as you continue working and make over the income limit.

[@CertifiedGasSystems]

Great advice. Dave was speaking on the moment from a random caller so not expecting a great detailed answer. You had plenty of time dissecting his comments and coming up with specific examples with numbers. I’m glad Ramsey’s feed came to your attention so you could accurately expand on his advice with particulars therefore revealing a great deal of advice. I suspect Dave would come close to your conclusions if he went back over his comments and put some real numbers to work. Thanks much!

[@Dave-zl2ky]

I don't have a high-end book or speech circuit like Dave Ramsey. I waited to 69 1/2 and that works great for me. I continue to run my busy little business.

[@gwillis01]

Dave Ramsey is one of those people who thinks the government never does anything right. He's one of those people who says "I'm never going to take a handout from the government even when I'm old and frail. My pride would be hurt. I'm going to take care of myself all by myself until the day I die."

[@markpashia7067]

And when reality hits most of them cave in just as hard as their idol Ayn Rand did.

[@thenaturalmidsouth9536]

He's a charlatan.

[@terrytillery9295]

Out come the Grasshoppers.....

[@MrSteeDoo]

He just rips on anything that HE is not in charge of. A pretty big EGO.

[@robstumpf]

@@markpashia7067nonsense

[@sadsciuidae3425]

D-V MORE - 1) account for the drop in the value of the dollar 2) the COLA calculation falls short of the actual inflation 3) the calculation of W is just a way to provide for an annual shortfall compared to actual expenses. There is no "usually" the BIG question is when should I stop working or can live on $1000+ a month beyond SSI and still cover expenses AND BE HAPPY.

[@tomjohnson5700]

I took mine at FRA. Little brother died at 65 and never collected a dime. You collect more at age 70 but you have to make it.

[@mcshakycheese7396]

You have to also consider the purposes of social security, which per their own website are defined as: - To provide for the material needs of individuals and families; - To protect aged and disabled persons against the expenses of illnesses that may otherwise use up their savings; - To keep families together; and - To give children the chance to grow up healthy and secure. In my mind, for anyone who already has a stable core retirement in which Social Security is a cherry on top, the question of when to apply is more-so a personal finance question rather than pure math. Even if your core retirement benefits satisfy these needs, the intent of social security is to provide stability. Whether the amount given actually achieves this is, of course, up for debate. Even so, if you want to "maximize stability," then waiting until the benefit is max would support such intent, even if you MIGHT come out ahead mathematically by applying early. If you are already very cushy, and like the idea of having extra income EARLY to do things you want with (generosity, travel, etc.) and are not concerned with running out of core funds later, then it is perfectly fine to take it out early in spite of the possibility it mathematically makes less sense. If you want extra stability on the tail end of your retirement to mitigate unforeseen risks, then taking the potential "hit," on gains is probably better by waiting to apply.

[@boscokid9524]

I highly doubt my employer would give me an amount equal to the social security tax amount they pay if the system were not in place.

[@costco_pizza]

Exactly, so the $170,000 he uses in his example needs to be cut in half. The employer would simply keep that money for themselves.

[@9doggie12]

Ever heard of a 401k

[@cherfromtn8225]

There are many employers who do not give a 401K match--especially if you are part-time (and some people are cobbling several part-time jobs together to make it) Also, if you don't stay employed a certain number of years with that employer, you are not "vested" and only have what you put in. Staying with the same employer for years is not as common as it used to be, so you may not get to keep any of that "promised" match. So putting money in a 401-K is not a foolproof solution either. Also, you may have limited choices in your company-sponsored retirement account, and if you do make the wrong choices, your 401-K will lose money. I know. I've done it. Ugh!

[@MrSteeDoo]

@@9doggie12 Kind of. Maybe you can explain it to us dummies.

[@IndigoStarrAz]

Social Security goes up 7% per year, Dave's premise is to invest 100% of your SS in mutual funds and wind up with 12%. I've been through FPU but still planning to wait until age 70. All in all I recommend his 9 week class.

[@Dbb27]

I think his 12% is inflated. If you’re not touching it for years then it’s realistic but if you need to live off the profits it’s not.

[@thep751]

It's 8% not 7%, guaranteed no risk vs market risk. And you can't compare the two numbers directly, they are apples and oranges. One is an increase in base pay and the other is investment gain from the benefits money you don't spend. But Ramsey is right if you run the numbers, you will come out ahead if you can get 12%. But that's a big if, you can run into one big crash like the year 2000 or 2008, and you are toasted.

[@stevenparker634]

I’d like to see Devin run the comparison chart using 9% instead of just 5% and 12%. 9% is about what a 65/35 portfolio (65% broad-based equities, 35% mixed investment-grade and government bonds) has returned, annualized, over 90 years. Yes you can make 12% or more in mutual funds some years, but not always. Look at the long-term results and invest accordingly.

[@robertallen3904]

I have worked as a financial advisor for the past 30 years. I review and analyze Social Security as part of a comprehensive financial plan. Thanks for addressing disability and survivor benefits. Also, you don’t invest all your money in pure stocks as you get older. “Sequence of return” risk can and does kill a portfolio. If I told clients to expect “12%” returns every year, without any volatility, especially during withdrawal - I would likely lose my license!

[@corralescruiser8957]

I cant imagine letting people opt out. So who's responsible for their investment decisions? If the money is in a brokerage account, how much in fees would be lost for managing their money? To safely pay yourself 25 to 30k a year for life with increases for inflation, one would need to have roughly 800k to a million dollars. And you dont want to be 100 percent exposed to the market when you are 70. Can you imagine the sequence of risk retiring in 2006 and then having your account cut in half in 2009 and you need to sell securities to live! Social security was never meant to be the only leg in retirement. Savings along with pensions were the 3 legs of the retirement stool. Pensions dont exist anymore. Now employees are left with the 401k. I'll bet half of the country works for an employer who doesnt even offer a 401k. I worked at a couple of companies who offered a 401k but the plans were so heavily laden with fees, it wasnt worth investing. 1 to 2 percent load and management fees will kill returns. The only time I invested in a 401k was when the employer offered a match. After the 2008 recession they stopped matching so I stopped putting money in. Instead I invested in low cost Vanguard index funds. Social security is INSURANCE! Old age insurance. Disability insurance. Without these so called awful Social/Entitlement programs, who would take of all the homeless elderly? You think the homeless problem is bad now!

[@wlonsdale1]

SS is bankrupt. I can do better than that!

[@kathleenphillips7145]

I agree. The disabled depend on it. As for a retirement benefit it’s always been designed to provide a small percentage of total retirement Problem is when people do not save for retirement and only depend on social security benefits.

[@diggernash1]

Private charity, family, or no one. Either way, the problem would be short-term; not the long-term debacle that we are currently experiencing.

[@gwillis01]

The Social Security system was set up to be an income floor not an income ceiling. It is supposed to be just enough to keep an American person from being starving, naked, and homeless.

[@yolylacy5416]

Excellent video! Thank you.

[@DevinCarroll]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jstar1000]

Its impossible to give advice that fits everyone. Dave's advice is typically for people in trouble financially. Once he moves beyond that he is typically way off base for a lot of people.

[@marcob.7801]

Agreed! BUT,....he rarely points that out as modus operandi! Also, by the time those people call in to his show, it is probably far too late for his advice to be "life altering" in any real way!

[@memiller55]

I agree, also... his advice has to fit into a short phone call. Many of these decisions have many variables which make a major difference to the answer, and he should be telling people to find a qualified advisor to build a model of their situation and present them with all the options and considerations. But he has built his audience by being certain, sure, and quick and would lose it by being more cautious and uncertain.

[@barrythehatchet1380]

His advice is solid for 99% of Americans. Avoid debt. If you have it, get out of it. Our collective debt will be the downfall of this country.

[@steveday2868]

I retired at 62 and took the lower payment. I struggled for 5 years but had medical issues that contributed to that. Then i went back to work and had to pay the irs around 5k in taxes on it since going back to work i exceeded the income limits.

[@mellissadalby1402]

Hi Devin, I appreciate your sound advice. My comments on Dave Ramsey's statement about retiring at 62 and investing it all to make up the difference is "What are you then supposed to live on if you invest the entirety of your SS benefit?"

[@peterdavila3045]

I'm in the group that is waiting to 70 to claim. I'm currently 66.5 years old, retired, but not getting benefits yet. The way that I explained my decision to postpone social security benefits as long as possible to my brothers is that I may not live long enough to that "break even" point at age 80 something, but dying is not the problem. If I die before the breakeven point all my financial problems are taken care of. But, the real reason to file as late as possible is in case you do live longer than expected. That extra amount from Social Security each month could change your life appreciably. For example, you may be able to afford new state of the art medicine that make you healthier or even younger. Hey, with all the research into aging, new treatments for aging may happen soon.

[@garyjones3142]

Took SS at 70 and never looked back. Almost 4 thousand a month---not bad.

[@usmajrav]

@@garyjones3142 I turned 70 on Dec. 23, 2021 and, beginning in Jan. of this year, $3,744 started "magically" showing up in my bank account on the fourth Wednesday of every month. Seemed like a no-brainer - at least in my particular case - but I read a couple years ago that only about 4 or 5% of people wait until 70. Also, I considered a few years ago that it would be nice to have inflation automatically factored in every year, which also has turned out (and is continuing) to be another reason I'm glad I waited.

[@chrisferretti7020]

Same here...I crunch numbers for a living and found that this is the way to go. I have a family history of late 90s to 100s, so genetics is on my side and I'm in better shape that most people half my age. Two plus years go really fast at our age.

[@JBM425]

I couldn’t wait until 70 to take Social Security, but I’m glad I waited until I hit my Full Retirement Age (66.5) this summer. Waiting a couple of years instead of taking early Social Security takes care of my Medicare A & B that I currently write checks for. Even waiting a few extra months instead of taking it at 66 made a surprising difference. The key is to get all the facts and data and make an informed decision as you did (and I would like to believe I have).

[@CoffeeBreakSomewhere]

Waiting till 70, if I don't make the break even my wife might and I need to make sure her survivor benefit is as large as possible

[@Amelia-Elizabeth]

Nobody can become financially successful over night. They put in background work but we tend to see the finished part. Fear is a dangerous component, hindering us from taking bold steps we need in other to reach our goals.,.

[@Heartlesslink100]

I was always told to hold off as long as you can to collect social security. I know a number of people who retired at 65 when they could be on Medicare but had enough in other accounts to live on without social security and plan on collecting at 70. Maybe this isn't the most ideal situation either but the up side is you will have more money as you age and need it for medical expenses, etc.

[@candecarro]

This is a fabulous video! So much great information.

[@russ189]

He’s something to think about. I had been working since I was 15 years old and paying into Social Security since then too. I had fully earned my credits and at 59 stepped away from work for health reasons. And had to go through three stages of Hell to get what I felt was deserved. But yet I know other people who have been drawing since their 20’s. And each year I hear that Social Security may go broke. ( where’s all the money I’ve paid in ? ) So yes I took it early for two reasons, 1-no one really knows how long they will life. 2- apparently they’ve wasted the money I’ve paid in. So I’ll take it while I can.

[@sflotr]

I agree that Dave loves himself. 👍🏻

[@DevinCarroll]

Yes...but I understand that he has drawn a line in the sand with his convictions on money and he's unwilling to budge.

[@MrGoodaches]

Huh!? Many countries have a program similar to US Social Security. Why does Ramsey make it sound like it's a uniquely bad US program? There are plenty of good sources of info, I don't need the annoyance of sifting through Ramsey's ego and far right ideologies to try to figure when some of his info is correct.

[@chrisoneillstitt]

Amen

[@diggernash1]

And they are all bad. Government should not be involved in the determination of a minimum standard of living, funded by moneynremoved by force.

[@MrSteeDoo]

Because he's the cranky curmudgeon who rips on anything that he is not in charge of.

[@eaglekeeper7737]

How does a military retirement affect the annual earnings.

[@StumpRider719]

Military retirement is not considered earned income under SSA.

[@diggernash1]

Many local pension plans virtually eliminate SS benefits, unless you have a number of quarters with significant earnings.

[@edwardglatzmayer5466]

Good points to consider. What everyone needs to realize is that Dave Ramsey is giving "ADVICE ONLY". It is up to the individual or couple to decide what will be best for them. Dave's advice is sound for some people in certain life situations. But it may not fit everyone, so his advice is not "one size fits all". The same can be said for Devin Carroll's video. Let's go folks! Gather in all your living expense information and YOU decide what you should do. After all, it's your life! If your mind is not equipped to make such a decision or you know you lack the discipline to fully understand your situation, then pay someone qualified and reasonable to give you specific guidance for you and to put you on a path you believe in! You can do this!

[@marta150]

When people decide what is best for themselves they may rely on information from Ramsey and much of that information is incorrect.

[@MrSteeDoo]

Ramsey isn't just giving advice. He is telling that you are a moron if you don't follow his plan. He's an a-hole.

[@FrankBatistaElJibaro]

The clearest point that hit home for me was when you mention that the spousal benefit would permanently be reduced. That's enough to see that it can be a catastrophic decision to take SS early.

[@timpatton3948]

It seems about every ten years the market crashes and your investment could disappear.

[@bradk7653]

You don’t loose anything if you don’t sell on a down market, in fact it is a buying opportunity.

[@johnthompson5792]

if people just do they're financial & humanity history, they'd avoid a lot of this madness,,,

[@MrSteeDoo]

Not really.

[@davef6337]

Dave is rich, so what does he care about what social security pays? The program was put in place to protect the most vulnerable. Everyone preys on the public’s ignorance and financial literacy is not taught. God help average people if this program is removed. Poverty at old age will skyrocket. Although not for the well informed or rich people like Dave.

[@diggernash1]

Social security was not sold as a welfare program. It morphed into that state and is used as a political tool. Persons should provide for their own retirement or work until death. Not working in old age is not a right. Those who cannot work should be supported by private charity, as a reflection of the true character of the country.

[@TheWilferch]

Assuming an unwavering, 12% return....per year.......every year.....is nuts. Doesn't anyone question or push-back on Dave on this critical point ???

[@kburkes4245]

I've seen it mentioned on other channels about the 12% being VERY unrealistic.

[@MrGoodaches]

Yeah but, yeah but, these other educated, experienced, and qualified experts who’ve fact tested and revealed Ramsey’s fallacy, well, well, ahh they’re just not as genius as Ramsey is. Haven’t you heard how loud and forceful he says it? More loud + more forceful = more right…..doesn’t it?

[@lynnebucher6537]

Yes, and Dave just digs his heels in and says that 12% is achievable using good quality mutual funds, and of course using his advisory service.

[@scmsean]

It is averaging 12% not making it every year. My Roth IRA has averaged slightly over 12% over the last 14 years. Traditional Ira averages 9%. 12% is not some insane number. The market averages 10%.

[@TheWilferch]

@@scmsean ....I understand. I too am doing better than 12% but it takes careful stock or mutual fund selection, and even then ...this is not year-over-year....there may be 2 (or more) straight-lean years or even "down".....you need to be "in" for maybe 5 years or longer, on average for all this to work. The point is that Dave is making this a push for folks to "Switch"....and underreports the risk in doing so......these new folks who made the switch may be underwater afterwards if the timing is not right.... until some time passes and it all comes good. He makes it sound immediate, and constant...... which I still maintain is insane as a blanket suggestion for everyone.

[@michaelmeinberg2696]

Before we had SS and Medicare, over 50% of seniors lived in poverty. SS is not an investment program as much as it is a forced savings program. Most people simply spend their money on new TVs, cars, extra rather then save for retirement, SS and Medicare forces you to put a small percentage aside for the later third of your life.

[@rprastein]

Your spouse's spousal benefits are not affected by when YOU take social security, as they are based on your primary insurance amount; but they are decreased if your SPOUSE files early. Your widow's benefits are calculated differently; they are based on the benefit amount you were entitled to when you are alive. They also are decreased if your widow files early.

[@thep751]

To be clear, spousal benefit's amount is based on the benefits amount when higher earner claims. So the later the high earner claims, the more spousal benefits his or her partner will get. And yes the increase stops when a low earner reaches full retirement age. Also the low earner can claim normal benefits and switch to a higher spousal benefit at a later date after the high earner claims.