DF64 Upgraded | Great but ONE MAJOR FLAW (DF64P / DF64E)

[@KyleRowsell]

Drop your thoughts in the comments. ✍️✍️✍️

[@martinmanzi1830]

Great video Kyle! I'd like to compare it with the lagom mini even though one is flat and the other conical...I think they cost more or less the same, right?

[@KyleRowsell]

@@martinmanzi1830 they are! I compare the ode which I think is a more comparable grinder in another video.

[@droidtigger]

If the last model was heavily influenced by the Lagom P64, I get the impression this one was the Malhkonig e65s...

[@kaleidosnipercoffeeroaster]

I guess next video is what I am looking forward to, right?💜

[@anshuprakash1115]

A video comparing the Lagom Mini, Niche, Eureka Single Dose, and DP64, and ARCO (i.e. the major circa $400-500 single dose low retention grinders) would be so amazing! I’d love to see that comparing retention, work flow (with a comment on ability to do consecutive grinds), range of grinds, noise.. Love the videos btw, keep it up!

[@KyleRowsell]

I think you’ll like what I have planned then 🙂

[@CalvinBacon]

@@KyleRowsell any ETA on this? I'm moving in December and want to upgrade my grinder!!

[@KyleRowsell]

@@CalvinBacon November or December release. It’s a large video.

[@ereg8691]

​@@KyleRowsell Femobook A68?

[@ricknicholson5894]

Suggestion for grinder drift when you turn it on. I use soft matting in my boat and motorhome to reduce vibration and to stop drifting. Just go to your local RV or boating (chandlery) store for this material which is quite cheap. So just get some of this material and cut a piece out to roughly take the shape as the grinder, it will look okay and no more drift.

[@KyleRowsell]

Good suggestion!

[@ricknicholson5894]

For Canadians living in a province without an HST, but a PST & GST, if you purchase gear from Alberta you don't pay the PST on your purchase. Since I live in BC, I save 7 % buying photography equipment and coffee goods from Alberta, and where I'll be buying of the iterations of the DF64. I have saved a lot of money with my camera gear purchasing from Calgary.

[@vancitycanucks]

Yep

[@paulturner968]

Thanx for the great review. I am matching the DF64P with the DF83. This I feel gives me the full range with a nice focus on espresso. Thank You also to Joe @ espresso outlet for being SO helpful!

[@smartliketupperware]

I pretty much made my decision to buy the DF64P based on this review. And damn, do I regret it. Had it for five months now. With at least 10 times clogged chute! I am running the grinder while adjusting, I am pumping the bellow like I am getting paid for it. The coffee I use medium-dark and not oily. I tried to switch the declogger pieces, remove one, remove both - no success. Cleaning the machine involves taking the wooden ring off, and then the piece that holds the lower burr - which means pulling out half the motor! It is possible to remove the chute while leaving the lower burr assembly in place, but then coffee grinds and probably the declogger pieces too will fall into the motor compartment. Now, putting it back together messes with the adjustment because a) every time the heavy lower burr part is put back, the grind adjustment gets pushed down a tiny bit b) The torque of the lower burr assembly affects how much the lower burr is pushed up c) the torque of the upper burr part affects how much that burr is pushed down, and (more important) it is not a precision piece and the direction matters. Put the ring back in the wrong direction and the burrs won't be parallel any longer. So, be prepared that this will be your breakfast routine about every 2 weeks: 1. What the... Ooops, here we go again. Good bye 17g coffee 2. Take grinder apart, clean, reassemble +- 20min. 3. Find the right grind setting. Good bye 15min, another 2-4 doses coffee and good mood. And the special reason why I feel like writing today: After all those times putting the lower burr assembly back, the grind adjustment is messed up and I have to take the bottom of the machine apart and adjust to reset the zero position. Folks do yourself a favor and double your budget to get an Eureka or Niche Zero or whatever grinder. But not this disaster.

[@felixzimmerling2509]

1 bad experience out of 10000

[@gjhunter9326]

Great details on the updated versions. The lack of grind adjustment is a non-issue for me as I’m looking for a dedicated espresso grinder, but the variability on the timed grinding output on the E is a bit disappointing. Glad they’ve remedied some of the issues it sounds like, such as declumper, burr alignment and static though. Thank you and great job!!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Yep like you said, I agree, the screw off top mechanism on the original DF64 was not great, some people have mis-threaded them because it's hard to get it aligned and screw on when the springs are (lightly) fighting against you, so I think having to use the allen key is not really a negative. Glad the internals are improved, and alignment is better out of the box. Stock Italmill Burrs on the DF64 I found were good for espresso but not ideal for coarser brew methods anyway, so if you're planning on sticking with the stock burrs anyway, and have another grinder that works for coarser brew methods then the DF64P or E would be ideal. Latest DF64 has the same updated de-clumper as well as some improvements like o-rings on the burrs which do... something. :D

[@Anggaditto2]

Thankfully, your ONE MAJOR FLAW is one advantage of mine. I'm looking for one dedicated espresso grinder, and the small range of espresso grind size in original DF64 put me in doubt. I think I will go for the DF64P.

[@kenn1997]

Great video! Joe Kolb is awesome, he's an all around nice guy. Really cool to see these two, but super excited to hear about the DF83 (assuming Joe was able to help with one of those as well :O) 83 mm burrs are bit more of a mystery to me.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I'm guessing they'll be about 20mm better :)

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching. And yeah, a few of us KZbinrs really appreciate Joe. Honestly… coffee KZbin is tough when you’re reviewing lots of expensive gear. Having people like Joe and others who expect nothing but an honest review is so refreshing and empowering.

[@wilburpan]

Nice overview, but there's "ONE MAJOR FLAW" *grin* I haven't found any description of the DF64P or the DF64E as being anything other than an espresso grinder. The places where you can buy them indicate that. For example, one of the websites where you can buy these grinders says, "The DF64E has a more limited adjustment mechanism when compared to the DF64 Original, for this reason we recommend the DF64E for espresso only, while the DF64 can be used for a wide range of coffees." So to fault the DF64P and the DF64E for not being ideal for grinding coffee beans for filter coffee is sort of like criticizing a sports car for not having the payload of a pickup truck.

[@fastfolky]

YES! I just made a fresh cup, checked youtube and there's a new Kyle video! That's a good way to start the day!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I never really understood timed dose machines, when I had a Vario and Specialita I always single dosed those (and they worked well that way I found). I don't think it's ever going to be super consistent because the weight on top is going to affect your grind speed, if you switch beans / roast levels or even grind size it affects how much you get out in a certain amount of time as well, so you really gotta dial it in over and over again for every change and weigh it out (confirm what it gave you) if you want consistent results (and make sure the hopper is always filled about the same level!). I had an Atom 75 for a while and that thing was a beast, it ground SUPER fast there was a huge discrepancy on how much it would shoot out in just 3 seconds based on how full the hopper was! For espresso where 1gram can make a BIG impact in shot timing and quality! I know I want my espresso grinders to be within at least 0.3g, If put in 18g I want 17.8g to 18.2g ideally. One way to achieve this is single dosing as long as the grinder behaves consistently and has low retention, (Eureka Oro SD, with the bellows does NOT behave consistently for me, but without the bellows it seems better behaved) The DF64 generally is pretty consistent in its output if you use the bellows consistently (grinders with bellows do tend to be more variable, so ideally I want a low retention grinder without having to need a bellows). I Think what we will see more of soon is grind by weight grinders, where you put in 18g on the grinder setting and it intelligently weighs it out as it grinds and gets you close to 18g in your basket. There's a few of those out already and more coming.

[@ricknicholson5894]

Most of us aren't as obsessive when it comes to pour over and drip referring to the "exact" ratio of ground bean to water. Given our slothfulness, timing the grind is great. I go to the kitchen, check to make sure there is enough beans in the hopper, I only do two or three days worth in the hopper, hit the on button and walk away to prep my moka pot while the grinder does it thing. In my humble opinion, if you are doing two types of coffee drinks, as I do, in my case case moka and espresso, then given my slothfulness two grinders work better. So I use my Breville Smart Grinder Pro for my moka grind, or drip grind when guests are over, and my not yet purchased DF64 or one of the two newly modified DF64 for my espresso grinding. With espresso prep I use scales, for my moka slothful prep I don't use scales.

[@celticdr]

Timed doses are indeed inaccurate as different bean varietals and sizes/roasts grind at different speeds and times, really its only purpose is in a cafe where you go through large quantities of the same blend of coffee and just need to fill a portafilter as quickly as possible with the same dose over and over again (which you've dialed in from the start). The idea of fitting a scale inside the grinder is great, but the practicality of doing it is a real design challenge and the upshot is you have to charge more for the grinder as well (turning away more customers). I think for now we're stuck with using a separate scale and weighing coffee in/out until someone comes up with a better solution - but it is definitely the most consistent way to brew espresso versus a timed dose.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@ricknicholson5894 Sure, other brew methods like Moka pot, and drip don't need to be as precise as espresso, you can still improve your results or get more consistent results with being more precise, but that's cool if you're cool with a little bit of variability and don't think it's worth the effort for that. At least you weigh it out for espresso. And yeah, having two grinders will make things easier for sure when switching between brew methods.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

​@@celticdr There's actually a grinder I believe by the same people who made the DF64, which looks like a bigger Eureka Mignon grinder (with 64mm burrs), that one has a version with grind by weight capability, but it never took off as much as the DF64 did. Eureka is also coming out with a Grind by weight grinder and the new Acaia Orbit will have that feature, with their expensive but nice Lunar scale. Baratza Vario W was the first consumer grind by weight one I remember seeing I guess it was ahead of its time! It had some issues, but I think people generally found it reliable. Same with the Sette 270W I believe. I think we'll see more of those scales in the future with GBW capability. I think the Key to designing one of those really well, is they also need to have low retention without a bellows, and not retain a lot of coffee in the neck so you can easily change the hopper and swap out coffees, a design similar to the Zerno grinder where there's a horizontal auger / bean feeder takes the variable of weight and feed rate out of the equation so it would make grind speed more consistent and easier to estimate. Someone help me patent this and/or design it and give me 15% :)

[@celticdr]

@@BensCoffeeRants interesting, I'll have to check that Acaia out, their gear is pricey but I've heard it's reliable (and as the owner of 3 different scales bought on Amazon I can confirm scale reliability is hard to come by 😂). I'm not too concerned about retention since it's relatively stable from grinder to grinder (my Ode is almost always 0.2g off) so I factor that into my grams in. Will be interesting to see if any of the new scaled grinders will be game changers, though I'm sceptical. I think the biggest game changer would be a $500 flat burr grinder with SSP burrs already in it (and aligned). Having gone from a conical to a flat burr grinder I'm fully convinced flat is where it's at (even for espresso).

[@ed4008]

I’m looking forward to being able to get my hands on the DF83 I think that’s going to be a real step up from the DF64 with the 83mm burrs.

[@KyleRowsell]

I hope so!

[@tradeUserify]

You like more dark beans? Than is the 64 better :)

[@evanasher9035]

I see that Aillio bullet in the background...you been roasting coffee? I have one and love it.

[@KyleRowsell]

I have! It’s a little workhorse

[@dylanbeschoner]

Personally I get better results using the 2L packet of classic profile of Third Wave minerals, but I put in full gallon of water. I like the taste from lower tds

[@sdrawkcabvag]

so in terms of just espresso, does the DF64P beat out the niche? i know taste is subjective, so not coming from that POV, but workflow, build quality etc. Just for espresso, do you have a preference? or is it simply a conical vs flat discussion

[@TheJamesMReid]

I have a niche and am happy with it so personally I’ve been wanting to get a flat burr grinder but that can be multipurpose and has the range for pour over and espresso. So it would be the standard DF64 for me (unless I swing for the P64)

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching James

[@droidtigger]

As a DF64 owner who loves the low fines filter it can do, I'm actually relieved that these don't do filter - no fomo

[@KyleRowsell]

Haha there’s a plus!

[@paulschlereth5101]

I'd be very interested in an Orphan Espresso Apex grinder review. It seems rather unconventional but purports to rival very expensive machines for pour over grind consistency

[@gxtoast2221]

I'm only interested in light to medium roast espresso so the DF64P would have the range. I just wish the manufacturers designed calibration as first class and looking at how the base comes off and how calibration is performed it is a deal breaker. If I could afford it I would definitely go for the Lagom P64.

[@jobleusink3297]

Thanks Kyle! I was waiting for a review on the DF64-P and this will make me buy one. I'm only single dosing espresso (and maybe 1 or 2 Aeropress cups per year). Currently using an EM Specialita, but I don't like it's grind size dial for single dosing...

[@KyleRowsell]

Glad I could help!

[@elliotsavoie678]

I like the wooden finish but this got me hopeful for a video…if you yourself could design a coffee machine (grinder or espresso machine) what would it look like? Just a thought! Artistic talent may be limiting but we’d love to see it anyway

[@brandonrohrer2245]

I really want to get a look at the DF64S. I want the “P” with the sweet lab burrs, but having variable RPM would be great

[@KyleRowsell]

Agreed. Can't wait to take a look!

[@Mubi___]

@@KyleRowsell do you know when the DF64S will entry the market?

[@ggcadc]

That b roll dumping beans into the hopper is *chefs kiss*

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks!

[@johndambrosio352]

Great video! The bellows remind me of the arms of the robot on the original Lost in Space series. "Danger, Kyle Rowsell, danger!"

[@KyleRowsell]

Such an ugly addition to a beautiful grinder!

[@Somelucky]

I've had my E for a few months now. The only issue I've had with it, is it's very easy to clog it by adjusting the grind size it while it's not running. The printed warning must be taken very seriously. Recovering from that mistake is not fun and usually the chute and declumpers must also be removed and cleaned. I ordered mine direct from China and it wasn't zeroed for the standard italmil burrs. It was only recently I felt comfortable enough to open it up, fish out a dropped chute screw and one of the declumper layers to zero and calibrate. When used properly the is rock solid and has been doing a fine job grinding fairly consistently with the timer. I don't think I've had more than a 1g variation using the timer.

[@skatcat31]

It being single purpose spro is fine. The Fellow Code would then pair nicely for this for two great purpose but grinders. No need to jump back and forth. One flat burr for spro one flat burr for non spro. Easy. Quick. Both compatible with the same burrs.

[@KyleRowsell]

Sure would. That would be a great combo

[@dollhausenx]

So the ONE MAJOR FLAW is that the grinder doesn't do something the manufacturer said it wouldn't do? I don't care about anything other than espresso so an ESPRESSO grinder sounds pretty good to me. I'm on the wait list for a Lagom P64 but with these new grinders I'm tempted. Especially at the price point.

[@polbeanz899]

Should I finally grow tired of hand grinding for filter coffee, I can at least relegate my current DF64 and chuck in SSPs for the task. The DF64P sounds like a dream to use for espresso, indeed, and is such a tempting addition to my bar.

[@viperlt86]

I got a Baratza Vario+ with the steel burrs based on your recommendation when it first came out. I love it for filter coffee, but I’m not sure I am as happy with the espresso because of the stepped adjustment system. Would either the df64p or the df83 be a significant upgrade over the Vario+? I think I would also consider a Niche or maybe an 1zpresso hand grinder just to experiment.

[@BrownProductionsTV]

Was hesitant to get the df64 because of aesthetics mostly, but these are great. That black will go so nicely with my black gaggia classic

[@KyleRowsell]

It’s classy!

[@HansProbs]

Thanks Kyle. You are right on time with this video. puts me at ease. Love the wood accents. money being no object, which burr produces your favorite espresso shot?

[@KyleRowsell]

honestly? It depends on the day. I really think the SSP HU 64mm burrs are underrated.

[@HansProbs]

@@KyleRowsell nice, probably cant go wrong with any ssp variant. but love that suggestion since this would be strictly for espresso as recommended. not all about high clarity, so dont need MP.

[@KinchenC]

Thanks for the great video Kyle! Haven't seen this come up yet but with your recent testing on the Timemore 064s, would you recommend it over the DF64P/E? I'm predominantly a medium to dark roast espresso person. Thanks in advance!

[@sebaba001]

Kyle I've seen a couple of different roasters in the background :). Doing a roaster comparison video? Bullet vs Kaleido?

[@KyleRowsell]

That’s the plan 😊

[@sebaba001]

@@KyleRowsell nice!!!

[@Dotes111]

Thanks for posting another great video! I know that you probably have many other comments, but how does the DF64P compare to the Sette 270? I do not think that I can tolerate the Sette's noise and mixed macro/micro adjustment system any longer with so many new mid-tier grinders on the market!

[@dmitrypetrishin7799]

The zero point alignment with those is really pain in the ass…😅 I’m not sure also whether my bottom alignment bolt was stuck or it’s by design but I wasn’t been able to unscrew it, only shift the handle with a bit of a force…😅 now I have the working range from 40 to 20 instead of 15 - -3 😃

[@toasterboy708]

It just looks like what it is.. Something cobbled together in a Shenzen factory from mostly off the shelf parts and based on other grinders innovative ideas. But not quite getting there. I'm betting Martin from Niche has a Flat Burr prototype on his desk right now, and is watching what these guys are not getting right, and is about to unleash the ultimate 'Niche Zero Killer' on us within the next 12-18 months. I'd call it the 'Niche F-Zero'... Watch this space!

[@KyleRowsell]

I’ve talked with niche and they won’t give me any hints to a flat burr model. But they haven’t said no either

[@classicrockonly]

The range for these grinders don't bother me at all. I'm very interested in the DF64P after this. I already use a Eureka Mignon Notte for espresso only and a Kinu Phoenix grinder for filter coffee only

[@cfrankom]

Love the review, thinking of a DF64 myself, do you have any links or comments on the mods you have there for the original DF64? Looks like that tilt for the basket would help with the mess quite a bit!

[@orangejuli07]

DF83 Preorder fam, where you all at?

[@fernisx]

I am currently using the grinder on the Brevelle Barista Express. Will it make a noticeable difference in taste switching to this grinder?

[@riverscl]

Hey! Im buying a gaggia classic pro and i need a grinder for it. I really have 3 options, baratza sette 270, eureka mignon silenzio and DF64E or P. Any guess

[@ToddParker]

Others are saying these two grinders are not all arounders and a pure play espresso grinder as well. I need an all arounder flat burr and had been considering DF64 (original). I also learned the moonshine burr on option lagom mini is a conical that some say plays like a flat burr since it increases clarity over the obsidian burr option for lagom mini. I want to stick around the $500 pricepoint of the DF64. So with all of this in mind what would you recommend? I have a full brew bar with an Argos Lever on order for my espresso need.

[@KyleRowsell]

First, congrats on the argos! Very nice! Second, the df64 is likely your better option. They updated it for the v4 with a new declumper which is nice. The lagom mini is also great. I did a video on it not too long ago

[@ToddParker]

@@KyleRowsell Thanks Kyle. Would your opinion change if I said that espresso won't be my daily driver and the brew bar will? The other thing, I usually filter about 55grams out when making my wife and me coffee every morning. I planned on continuous dump if I get something like the mini that holds only 30grams. I noticed at the end of the video you qualified lagom mini in relation to espresso a bit. On a spectrum of brightness and clarity, does the Lagom Mini move slightly away from conical like Niche toward flat burr or does it provide a better version in the cup of both worlds: i.e. clarity increased for light roasts with conical attributes like the chocolatey tones when using a darker roast? I appreciate your time and expertise since you have tried them all.

[@jacobfiksel3600]

@@ToddParker I was in a similar scenario as you, and decided to go for the combination of a Lagom Mini with moonshine burrs for both espresso and solo cups of filter coffee, and also the Solis Scala Zero (Baratza encore would also be fine) for grinding larger amounts for my girlfriend and I.

[@ToddParker]

@@jacobfiksel3600 and what do you think about lagom mini with moonshine?

[@jacobfiksel3600]

@@ToddParker I love it, Kyle's review is a great overview

[@rolandlickert2904]

I can get DF 64 for 280 US and even with some flaws, it is a great buy for that price in my opinion.

[@gregorio5543]

Happy with my Niche for espresso but man something about these I really like and makes me want one

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!

[@_.Bill._]

I know this a grinder video, but how about them roasters?

[@KyleRowsell]

patience padawan

[@jnattress]

@@KyleRowsell Need to build that type, eh?

[@KyleRowsell]

@@jnattress always

[@alexanderb.1515]

Hey is there any more info about the df64d with variable grinding speed like the lagom? It is supposed to come out soon

[@gr3904]

is the df64e louder than eureka mignon specialita or different eureka with silent technology?

[@jonathanfong3033]

I just got my df64p 2 days ago. I opted for the ssp mps and it was not recalibrated so my zero was like 30 on the grind setting and the burrs seized. I didn’t buy from espresso outlet, but you probably should so that you avoid wearing down your Burrs and having a painful first day of ownership.

[@KyleRowsell]

Oh shoot Jonathan. Not fun. All worked out now?

[@jonathanfong3033]

@@KyleRowsell all good now, reached out to df64 directly no response yet but we will see.

[@adamsilverblatt2208]

Nice job as always, Kyle!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thank you Adam!

[@Markiller15]

Hey Kyle, do you think I’ll taste a big difference (improvement) if I upgrade to the Df64e from my Eureka Mignon Tradizione (Same as Manuale, Facile, Notte…. So an all manual 50mm flat burrs with a 260w motor). I drink flat whites and straight espressos only. Thanks for another great video!

[@TheIggyTech]

Honestly the bigger difference you'd probably see would be the flavor profile difference between the stock Eureka Mignon 50mm flat burrs and the italmil 64mm burrs. I would look up the flavor profiles that these two burr sets tend to favor and see if you'd prefer one over the other. Otherwise both are very capable espresso grinders, so the difference in pure capability would probably be minimal.

I changed from Eureka Mignon Manuale to DF64 about year ago and i dont think there is much of a difference (paired with Lelit Bianca). I think i might have liked Eureka a bit more (taste-wise). I found stock DF64 to be too bitter and everything tasted like chocolade. Changing gring size had almost no impact on the espresso. But i think most of the problems were caused by TERRIBE declumper (DF64e seems to have better design). I changed the declumper to home made one and changed the burrs to SSP high uniformity (alligned) and im veeery happy now. I can have clarity and i can have body+chocolate. But its decided by the coffee i buy, not the grinder. To me, upgrading to DF64 from some other decent grinder makes sense only if you are willing to go the extra 200$ and get SSP burrs.

[@Markiller15]

@ Is aligning the SSP burrs simple ?

[@Markiller15]

I decided to order my DF64e with SSP HU burrs, so they will be installed and aligned in store. Hopefully, I’ll taste the improvement over my current grinder. I’ll let you know!

@@Markiller15 For me, the improvement was also dial and retention. It was impossible to dial back to the exact position with Eureka. The nob was so small and finicky. Its much better with DF64. There is some room to play with the grind size and extraction time etc. Im also starting to know at least grind setting to start when i see new bean. I waste much less coffee dialing in. And the best thing is that this is pretty good "regular person" endgame grinder. Hope you will be happy with it.

[@ΔημήτρηςΑθηνιώτης]

Hello, does the grinder comes perfectly aligned by the manufacturer ?

[@liewweisheng2052]

thankfully the df64e is only 340 USD in my region, can wait to get the df64e and gemilai CRM 3131🥰

[@KyleRowsell]

They’re very affordable for what they are. No doubt there

[@joseluislilloaleman7438]

Hey Kyle, When will you be getting the DF83? I'm excited to see your thoughts on that one!

[@KyleRowsell]

Already have it. First impressions video very soon :)

[@joseluislilloaleman7438]

@@KyleRowsell white or black?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@KyleRowsell that was quick!

[@jakemeyer5678]

Do you think there is an all around/multi purpose grinder out there? One that can do espresso and filter well enough, yet has a large capacity for drip machine coffee as well?

[@KyleRowsell]

Defiantly but you’ll pay for it. Check out the p64 or Key

[@AJM547]

When you described trying to grind filter coffee, you said it worked, BUT, the "bed was slightly muddy". Could you explain what you meant by that and why it is a bad thing?

[@KyleRowsell]

Sure! The bed had many fines trapped on the side beds and surface. Fines often will rise to the top during agitation. It reveals that either grind distribution is poor or grind size is too small. In this case it’s too fine. This can create bitter and unpleasant cups

[@mikni4069]

Would make changing to better burrs and absolutely nightmare, especially SSP that are thicker means you would need to dissemble the lower part to do calibration. But if you can live with stock burrs it dos look like a noticeable upgrade to the original for espresso that is. I’m not going down the road calling the limited grind range a design flaw, as Mahlkonig dos have several grinder with an equal limitations in grind setting, many high end SD grinders have no markings outside the espresso range either so it’s just a trade off of the design. However not being able to calibrate it easily is in my book a design flaw.

[@KyleRowsell]

You’re correct. It won’t be easy. I call it a flaw since their previous model has a larger range. You’d hope they’d take a step forward not back.

[@homegangsimpson5158]

do u think u could do mokka with it? or too fine for it aswell?

[@DustinHaning]

Do the SSP burr upgrades help with the versatility?

[@liamblood5239]

When you used the single or double dose function on the E would the amount of coffee ground change with the same coffee or different beans?

[@KyleRowsell]

It can! Weight in the hopper pushing down on the coffee being fed into the grinder will change the feeding speed. Resulting in different doses.

[@portakeeper]

Great vid, agree 100%

[@dontapper1873]

Any plan to do a 64mm burr showdown video?

[@KyleRowsell]

How about a single dose showdown? It's already scripted just got to add new grinders like these to the testing!

[@BreakTheSpell6]

Are you going to do a DF64V video?

[@TheMikk8512]

You Think it Will do a better job than Eureka Atom 65? I am considering an espresso grinder at the moment, and i’m very Confused which one to get now 😅

[@KyleRowsell]

Depends on what your goals are?

[@TheMikk8512]

@@KyleRowsell use it for espresso, but Think i will wait for your review on the 83 mm burr set

[@davidfuller581]

Seems to be certainly a better design than the original... Way less variable alignment or so it appears.

[@clashwithkeen]

Seems odd that you find the power chord placement on the side odd. If the chord comes from the back then you can't put it up against the wall. For people with smaller kitchens or simply lack countertop space then that's a pretty important design element.

[@icyfire207]

Is this considered upgrade in cup quality for espresso from Specialita with single dose mod?

[@KyleRowsell]

Hm, different. Specialita had a more traditional style burr. I really enjoy eureka burr for traditional espresso. But you’re not able to do more modern styles so it comes down to your needs and aspirations

[@andrewdavis9438]

No one can seem to explain why these things jump when engaged. I get the price is awesome but I've had grinders from Eureka, Ceado, and Baratza - none of these have that issue. The manufacturer in China basically told me "get a mat". Does anyone know if they are UL/ETL certified in the US? Seems lazy that Espresso Outlet, MiiCoffee, and whomever else imports these wouldn't pay to get them certified correctly.

[@AlexCamerony]

I read that this was going to be more espresso focused which is too bad, I really would like to get something that can do both even if 80% of the time I'm gonna be pulling shots & aeropressing

[@KyleRowsell]

Versatility is very desired. There’s no argument there.

[@Acxtcx]

Can i use df64e for a small cafe? Commercial use. 100 cups per day

[@dan138zig]

Not recommended

[@gavindillinger8104]

The whole filter coffee struggle thing feels like such a weird issue.

[@KyleRowsell]

Why’s that?

[@gavindillinger8104]

@@KyleRowsell I guess I just feel like at that price point it should be able to do both. I don't think that's asking too much, but maybe I'm wrong.

[@devildman3128]

Kyle, How do they compare to the new v4 D64?

[@KyleRowsell]

Yep! The v4 has the same declumper from my understanding

[@anthonytorgerson4175]

I am looking for a good grinder for v60, chemex, French press and I am experimenting with Vietnamese pin. Any suggestions for under $500? Maybe fellow ode?

[@KyleRowsell]

Yeah! Or lagom mini.

[@anthonytorgerson4175]

@@KyleRowsell Thanks. Which would you recommend between the 2?

[@KyleRowsell]

@@anthonytorgerson4175 I really enjoy the lagom mini. But that’s me

[@yeehsuencheng4102]

I see Bullet R1 behind ❤️😍

[@KyleRowsell]

Good eye!

[@jwoo00]

Does the new hopper fit on the old df64?

[@PsychologyNature]

Hi Kyle Love your reviews ❤. Can you please test new G64 coffee grinder with variable speed? Some say it is Lagom P64 “killer” it would be nice if you could give us deeper comparison between these two.

[@KyleRowsell]

I’ll look into it

[@EspressoOutlet]

There is a new DF64S coming, I'll send Kyle one when it comes out. We tested the G64. I have a test unit if you want it. - Joe

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I doubt it's a p64 killer but it is looking better than it did a year or so ago. A bit nicer finish now. Looks like they knocked it off even internally looks similar to p64 but I doubt the precision is there. And RPM range seems to be less useful with large jumps on the g64.

[@harbinguy1]

It seems many companies produce "DF64"?

[@benjaminbutton3476]

But why doesn’t anyone upgrade the niche to kill the killers 🤔

[@KyleRowsell]

It’s called the lagom

[@benjaminbutton3476]

@@KyleRowsell lol I was more thinking about a burr upgrade for the Niche itself. But yes Lagom family are single dose killers

[@KyleRowsell]

@@benjaminbutton3476 there’s a niche flat burr hack. If there’s enough interest I’ll do it.

[@benjaminbutton3476]

@@KyleRowsell I would love to see a video on that! I’m sure others would too. Or maybe you can convince Option O to make a 63mm Moonshine burr…

[@sdw9342]

How does the df64 compare to the kinu? Also an espresso only grinder, and my current grinder

[@KyleRowsell]

The kinu is espresso only?

[@ronpower7790]

He didn't understood how the classic mechanism with springs on the DF64 works.

[@StephenProsserHCC]

Thoughts on df64P for turbos?

[@KyleRowsell]

Not bad

[@hanwenzhang2881]

This products gets hundreds of bad reviews on Reddit regarding clogging issues. People have to disassemble it everytime after grindering more than 10 grams of coffee beans. It is a product that is sensitive to the beans. It does not even work for a medium roasted beans sometimes. After claiming a warranty after 11 months of use, I also find the so called 1 year warranty useless. It requests endless videos for its engineers to figure out what's wrong with the machine, and its has a list of useless solution for you to figure out what's wrong with your machine. It does not directly respond to your request of fix or exchange, and I believe this business should not exist in North America.

[@jakevan1969]

Yes, but, price aside, did they kill the Niche? I think the Niche might still be better?

[@KyleRowsell]

depends on what your goals are?

[@jakevan1969]

@@KyleRowsell For sure. And I am sure they produce a different flavour profile.

[@celticdr]

That is a huge flaw (not being able to do filter and espresso) and would definitely turn me off buying that grinder as I personally swap between cold brew/filter and espresso at home. Kinda makes you wonder what their R&D department were thinking - they had a grinder that does both and they adjusted it so it only has range to do espresso, pretty silly decision if you ask me. I almost bought the DF-64 OG, but in the end I got an Ode and upgraded the burrs to Gorilla Gear Black Burrs (which are a massive step up from the stock burrs). Yes it will grind for espresso now but I won't grind anything light roasted as it can jam up and I do want it to last for many years (if possible).

[@KyleRowsell]

Yeah I wonder the same. But it does seem it was intentional. It looks like they realized most buy the df for espresso and committed to that.

[@BigPoppa-t3z]

I use spring water no additives

[@solomonsmith3658]

I’d have been more tempted by the DF64 P when I bought my niche. I don’t make filter coffee so wouldn’t have been an issue for me. However, as pathetic as it sounds, the single thing that would’ve stopped me going for the P would’ve been that damn ugly dosing cup. I just can’t stand seeing the clear plastic against the lovely metallic panels and wooden accents. Real shame

[@KyleRowsell]

Fair enough!

[@christophfranke85]

Hey Kyle, i am not a native english speaker and i had a really hard time watching the video since you were talking really really fast. If you are interested in international viewers a slightly slower speed would be awesome. Keep up the good work!

[@pulakbhatnagar]

Why comic sans 😢

[@coffeem8011]

I thought sd 40 is the niche killer

[@KyleRowsell]

Yeah it’s a pretty wonderful little grinder too

[@Tcampbells]

So your only complaint about a single dose espresso grinder is that it doesn’t perform well of a range of other uses. Isn’t that the same as complaining that your truck used for transporting lumber and concrete slabs isn’t a good family vacation vehicle. Hmmm

[@KyleRowsell]

Not at all. Not when the lower end truck is able to be a great family vacation vehicle and load lumber. This is the successor. It should do all the df64 could do plus more.

[@playnicegames]

@@KyleRowsell you are incorrect, it’s not the successor, they are premium espresso focused versions of the machine. The successor is the DF83.

[@KyleRowsell]

@@playnicegames the df83 is not the sucsessor silly! I have both of them. The df83 is a more expensive grinder with a completely different burr family. 83mm burrs have very different options than 64mm currently. The df83 may be their flagship though

[@playnicegames]

@@KyleRowsell it is more of a successor in the sense that you are speaking. They all are different models that will be sold along side of each other. I am just going off of your own truck statement. Each grinder has it use and is meant to be used for that purpose. One is an 64mm all rounder, two are 64mm espresso focused and one is a 83mm all rounder. (Yes the 83mm is more expensive but in relation to other that size it’s quite affordable).

[@KyleRowsell]

@@playnicegames why are we giving Turin the pass when this grinder should have range? That’s my only point here. There’s no reason why it shouldn’t be able to do both. I get that it’s for espresso… it’s a great espresso grinder. But it would be even better as an all purpose grinder.

[@arianyazdannik968]

Man I really think they should change their UI designer. All their products suffer from some really bad design decisions.

[@KyleRowsell]

I agree but also… I think this is intentional. Small adjustments here make very small micro movements, it’s one of the easiest grinders to dial in

[@arianyazdannik968]

@@KyleRowsell I mean filter to espresso change on P64 is around half a turn it's just the matter of choosing proper thread pitch 🤷

[@KyleRowsell]

@@arianyazdannik968 true! But you’re adjusting the upper burr, not the lower. Regardless… yes it would have been SO much better if it could do more

[@RandomAnvil]

They need a better product designer. Some of those design misses are obvious.

[@KyleRowsell]

Ha you’d think so

[@itsxris]

kyle im giving you a dislike for the comic sans /s

[@KyleRowsell]

It’s a classic

[@dmitrypetrishin7799]

The zero point alignment with those is really pain in the ass…😅 I’m not sure also whether my bottom alignment bolt was stuck or it’s by design but I wasn’t been able to unscrew it, only shift the handle with a bit of a force…😅 now I have the working range from 40 to 20 instead of 15 - -3 😃

[@KyleRowsell]

Yeah I do wish it was easier to adjust grind range