Are The PS3 Emulator Rumours For PS5 Actually Realistic?

[@bartsic85]

All we'll get is the ability to re-purchase some PS3 games in their store.

[@applehazeva2739]

Pretty safe to say. Past trophies and stuff like Little Big Planet costum Levels are prbly dead

[@bartsic85]

….of course I hope I'm wrong 😅

[@WhatIsThis-ej2ot]

This. They def won’t make disks work

[@nategreatgames78]

@@applehazeva2739I think the trophies are baked into psn and really might be a reason they are still keeping ps3 and vita connected to it

[@karnovrpg]

I want to play the games I already own there.

[@marklarz4399]

RPCS3 will get ported to Xbox Series consoles before PS5 get PS3 backwards compatibility.

[@bartsic85]

RPCS3 on XSX or PS3 backwards compatibility on PS5.......none of these will happen.

[@mauriciochacon]

​@@bartsic85At least the xbox port could happen, the ps5 one lol

[@bartsic85]

@@mauriciochacon You're talking about an unofficial console modification in the case of RPCS3 on XSX, not an official extension of the console's capabilities as in the case of PS5 and PS3 emulation. These are two separate issues and following your way of thinking, modders will remake PS5 and emulate PS3 in the future.

[@halofreak1990]

@@bartsic85 there is no console modification involved in porting RPCS3 to Xbox

[@WithDreday]

Xbox blocked emulators in retail units, possibly because they didn't want to deal with Nintendo's wrath

[@MA16v3]

Sony has the documentation for the Cell BE and the SDKs for the system. That doesn't necessarily mean they can pull off a comprehensive PS3 software emulator, but it does mean that they wouldn't have the same hurdles to jump that the RPCS3 team has to make. It is certainly an advantage and were the RPCS3 team had it legally available to them, I suspect it would be significantly further along than it is. But having that documentation doesn't magically eliminate associated issues. If anything, it means they know for a fact what the problems will be before they come up and whether a viable solution can be implemented.

[@epobirs]

CELL documentation was always readily available. Remember, this device was intended to see a wide variety of uses in many applications. It didn't work out for several critical reasons but Sony's partners, IBM and Toshiba, did actively seek to create a CELL ecosystem. IBM shipped some specialized accelerator boards and that meant the documentation was widely available.

[@VictorHugoAlvarez-eternelymiss]

Ma16v3 Stop creating Delusional Reasons Without Knowing Nothing, You're Far away from bring correct, you shall hear the real especialista here on Digital Foundry, Lack of Documentation or knowledge on Cell Processor has Nothing to do with this, the problem is that PS5 CPU is not Powerfull Enough to Emulate PS3 6 Spe Cores.

[@bnbnism]

​@@VictorHugoAlvarez-eternelymiss well the PS5 CPU is basically a 3600x level performance as they have shown before and using that CPU on a normal pc can easily emulate a ps3

[@DannyWilliamH]

​@@VictorHugoAlvarez-eternelymiss Steve Bruhl? It absolutely can do it. The question is whether Sony will spend literally one second of effort on making it happen before selling you a PS3 title on PS Now/whatever their ecosystem is. Power isn't the issue. I easily emulate PS3 on my PC that is weaker than the PS5. The issue is effort and Sony not wanting PS5 owners to get something for free that they can charge for.

[@VictorHugoAlvarez-eternelymiss]

@@DannyWilliamH again you another Person who Knows Nothing Above Nothing!!! taking informations from your s, professionals from DIgital Foundry saying is not possible and you mr nobody talking shit from the S, SHut UP is better!!!!

[@DAMN11KIDS]

I would love to see killzone and resistance on the PS5!!

[@paulszki]

Yeah, kinda feels like a remaster trilogy of killzone would sell well enough.

[@yellowblanka6058]

A port sure, I wouldn't count on emulated though.

[@Final_Fantasy_7]

....with trophies 😊

[@Calvin_Coolage]

​@@paulszkiIf they ever do a full on remake/remaster of the trilogy, with multiplayer, I would absolutely get a PS5 for that. I'd settle for a simple HD port though

[@jaimeTF]

If I remember correctly, the PS1 emulator in the psp had different versions and each one them had different compatibility with some of the unofficially supported PS1 games. I remember that there was a plugin to let you switch versions of the emulator and online compatibility tables with the different games. Granted, the challenge isn't remotely the same, but Sony has already developed an emulator that was tuned on the go as the ps1 classic titles on psp were being released

[@isaacwilson8682]

I remember the POPSLoader plugin.

[@PhirePhlame]

Similar story for the PS2 classics on PS3

[@Grantallica]

Ridge Racer 7 with a full trophy set would genuinely allow me to die happy

[@yesmate78]

This

[@allthis701]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge

[@Spencer_Mansion]

Resistance Fall of Man is one of my all-time favorite fps games... I would absolutely love to officially be able to play that game again...

[@mandarinamala6513]

Bring back Tokyo Jungle, Rain, Pain and Fat Princess!

[@Blazestar2000]

Ahh, a fellow Tokyo Jungle enjoyer 😊

[@theLikou1]

Modern Sony would never talk about Fat Princess ever again.

[@mandarinamala6513]

@@Blazestar2000 yes! We don't need more humans

[@mandarinamala6513]

@@theLikou1 but why?

[@based-ys9um]

​@@mandarinamala6513body shaming women probably

[@Ivan-pr7ku]

The PS5's SoC uses Zen2 core with downgraded FPU compared to its PC variant with half the rate of FMA and FADD instructions throughput and some other reductions. This alone could make emulating games with SPU-heavy code slower.

[@mustang750r]

And let's not forget Mark Cerny pointed out how similar the Tempest Engine is to the Cell processor. So I'm sure that could be used in helping emulate.

[@alyessamaddox7022]

Yeah, I mean, the RPPS3 (I think that's the name? Word salad jeez) system requirements basically says Zen 3 is the minimum spec (AMD) cpu you need to get anything close to reasonable performance.

[@AngeloT2001]

RPCS3 took years to develop because the emu devs have to pretty much guess how PPUs and SPUs worked, while sony is quite literally the company that made the console, there is a headstart and they do have the engineers capable to pull it off.

[@unsavourylittlerunt]

They also made the PS2 and you know how that turned out

[@GhostGamer799]

they can port rpcs3 and change some things and bam playable ps3 games on ps5

[@MiguelRodriguez-lp9et]

​@unsavourylittlerunt, what? The emulator runs flawlessly?

[@unsavourylittlerunt]

@@MiguelRodriguez-lp9et It doesn't even handle proper upscaling (especially games like tomb raider legend) and the filters which are supposed to help with the lower resolution are pretty poor. So much for the company that literally made the console

[@MiguelRodriguez-lp9et]

@@unsavourylittlerunt I said "runs." It's much better than the ps2 and it doesn't have anyone the graphical glitches you see on PCSX2. I find the classic arcade filter to do a great job with hiding the low resolution, avoid the modern arcade filter, it sucks.

[@sizablekoala6879]

Say what we will about Xbox, backwards compatibility is the one thing they are doing much better than Playstation right now.

[@lennieleng9679]

The only thing

[@lirfrank]

Yeah, even though I wished Xbox BC physical games weren't downloads, it's leagues better than Sony's solutions. For whatever reason Sony hasn't given it a fair shot in almost two decades.

[@Afaik777]

They are not doing a great job of it anyway, a lot of the games are not available, even some first party ones like forza, or most of original xbox lineup, and they stopped adding new ones years ago. Would be awesome to play older armored core titles, or JSRF, on my Series X, but there is no way

[@jimbob1862]

​@@lirfrank To be fair you can use disks on the Xbox too, most of my backwards compatible library on it are just old 360 disks I pop in and install on it, and the install is so tiny in comparison to current gen games that I've basically got my entire 360 library on it for less than a tenth of its full memory Defo would prefer if they didn't need installing from a disk granted, but that's a battle we can't win with the digital push

[@Afaik777]

​@@lirfrankSony had a bit more recent backwards compatibility with Vita actually, it could play PSP and PS1 titles.

[@lassesuurmunne8340]

Metal Gear Solid 4 is what I’d most love to see running on modern consoles and PC. Hopefully it’s possible and will be on the MGS master collection vol 2. But also Twisted Metal (2013) 🙏

[@quanhair5023]

It's a crime Twisted Metal (PS3) is not emulated

[@ryandarko2115]

And metal gear solid 4

[@WH250398]

​@@ryandarko2115 Mgs 4 is very likely going to be part of Master Collection volume 2.

[@lassesuurmunne8340]

Agreed! One of my all time favorites on PS3

[@Pointman11111]

And that the servers are offline

[@jimcarrey2866]

Folklore, Heavenly Sword, MGS4, Drakengard 3, Asura's Wrath, Blur, Dante's Inferno, 50 Cent:blood on the sand, Afro Samurai, SF2 HDR. I don't think they'll emulate anything this generation. If they find a way it's probably games that nobody cares but, realistically they know they'll sell like GoW3, Uncharted 1-3, TLOU or Gran Turismo. The only game I see coming out of the jail is MGS4 with the vol 2 collection, but if that doesn't happen my Legacy Collection value is sky rocketing.

[@cyphaborg6598]

GoW3 has a PS4 version. (Uncharted 1-3 as well)

[@jimcarrey2866]

@@cyphaborg6598 Yep. That's why I see PS trying to sell them again, bc they know people bought them

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

demon souls original?

[@Hobo_X]

People forget, Sony doesn't have to sit there guessing how the SPU and other parts of the hardware operate. One of the main reasons development is so difficult is because they're having to guess what the hardware is doing and that in turn hurts the performance. Sony doesn't need to make guesses. They designed the hardware. They have the source and design documentation. They can write a 100% accurate emulator if they hired good developers to do it. By knowing exactly how it works they can much more easily decide SPU tasks that can sent to the GPU instead of the CPU. There's a LOT of improvement to be made. Also a pure emulation solution also circumvents any and all license issues they could come up against. Microsoft's back-compat efforts on Series X only hit licensing issues because they aren't doing pure emulation - it's a combination of emulation and other things.

[@AniLeo]

That's bullshit, documentation, specially from that far back then, is often wrong (spoiler alert: even on the public one) or non-existent. The proof is that their ps1emu and ps2emu implementations are horrible, yet you somehow expect them to do a proper ps3 one. Also, the PPU is a fairly simple unit. That's by far the easiest part in all of PS3 emulation. I don't think anyone needs to sit down and figure out how it works anymore, specially with the RPCS3 implementation that can run non SPU heavy games at hundreds of FPS.

[@jarde1989]

Just because you know what the hardware is doing doesn’t mean it’s easy to emulate The cell processor was a square peg and all modern architecture is a small round hole…

[@Hobo_X]

@@jarde1989 I didn't say it's easy to emulate. I pointed out how much _harder_ it is for enthusiasts to do this as fans because they lack a lot of the information Sony holds and constantly have to make guesses and try things out through trial and error. It's definitely still not easy by any means, but it's easier in comparison to what they have to do right now.

[@hayax]

The PPU is not the bottleneck for PS3 emulation, the Xbox 360 has a PPU as well. The bottleneck are the SPUs, which comprise the CPU for the PS3. Its characteristics make it difficult to emulate in x86, it doesn't matter if you have documentation or not.

[@hayax]

@@Hobo_X The reason that PS3 emulation can be slow is not because of a lack of documentation, it is a barrier inherent to the differences between the CELL and x86 that cannot be made up for.

[@WH250398]

Ps2 disc compatibility would have been an absolute dream. There's no way that isn't possible.

[@marosis99]

No. It's not possible. PS5 disc reader can read only blue ray. Not CD or DVD

[@WH250398]

@@marosis99 Pretty sure it can read dvd's.

[@Pointman11111]

​@@WH250398 It can and i'm sure if Sony wanted it they could enable CD playback Every single UHD player has CD support it doesn't make sense that the ps5 drive can't CDs unles Sony actively blocked

[@UchihaDareNial]

@@Pointman11111ps4 ps5 funny game the laser to read CD, but it can read DVD and Blu-Ray

[@iaincowell9747]

​@@marosis99 All blu ray players can read dvd

[@Aki_Lesbrinco]

I played some ps3 games in the PS3 emulator on a PC with a ryzen 3700x and an rtx 3070, pretty decently, but I think the games I tested are easier on the CPU. Virtua Fighter 5, whatever Outrun game came to the PS3 and a couple of other similar games.

[@PhinioxGlade]

I’ve played os3 games on the SteamDeck. They worked about as good as original hardware, so subpar

[@zeohblitz]

Wouldnt matter. $ony will just resell the ps3 games instead of letting everyone use their physical games.

[@GhostGamer799]

as someone who don't have any ps3 games on disc i see this as a win

[@nebulainfinite1]

That comment wasn’t meant for people like you😂

[@momocblack]

Xbox did both, if its on the store then you can out the disc it will download the game and the disc is only used as drm, would be perfect if they do the same, but if they haven’t done it for ps1/ps2 yet they wont allow disc for ps3 either so yeah to me either does not matter

[@robertpadua6096]

True that

[@PulseAttack]

​@@GhostGamer799You are the minority so stfu

[@semmelboesel]

Oh man the whole time I wanted to give John's glasses a little nudge to fit it higher

[@BUPMY1]

Might be a PS6 feature.

[@F14foreverF14]

Epic titles from Ps3 glory days that I dearly miss 😍 - KillZowned 2 - MotorStorm Pacific Rift - Resistance Fall of Man - Heavenly Sword - Metal Gear Solid 5 - MotorStorm 1 - inFamous - Uncharted - F.E.A.R

[@mydogbuddy07]

Metal gear solid 5 already has a PS4 version, So you can already play it on PS5. And the first 3 uncharted games were also released in a remastered bundle for PS4.

[@markstephens8632]

@@mydogbuddy07 Probably meant Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots.

[@mydogbuddy07]

@@markstephens8632 Yeah, That would make a lot more sense.

[@Parker--]

They should rebuild Killzone 2,3 and Resistance trilogy to PSVR2. If rebuilt for VR, it is easy enough to just emulate VR for controller.

[@yellowblanka6058]

Also, IIRC the RAM in the PS3 had some insanely high bandwidth for the time (I believe latency suffered as a result)

[@SinanPurtas]

I use my ps3 more often than my ps5. Games back then were just better

[@nikolazgeo]

Agree as PS5 is stormed with mediocre indie games and Ubisoft trash

[@PackBrewBadgeWI4]

PS2, PSP, and PS3 will always be my favorite PlayStation platforms of all time. Not only did they have an expansive library of quality games, gaming is as simple as it gets on those 3 systems. You just pick out the games you want and begin playing them immediately without limits.

[@kev1nno]

Thank you for being the voices of reason, lads. I think a lot of people are lacking perspective when discussing thie viability of this. RPCS3 has about 70% compatibility at the moment, and a lot of people are saying "only 70%? That'd never be enough for a platform holder - not viable!" ... Meanwhile Sony's previous PS2 emulator on PS4 has only like 60% compatibility with the PS2 library, with significant issues even in some of the games they released with it... and Sony used it anyway. RPCS3 probably has a higher compatibility rate on even the Steam Deck than Sony's previous PS2 emulator has on PS4... Sure, Sony probably won't be able to make a PS3 emulator that works as well as RPCS3, and even if they did, a lot of Sony's own titles won't work on a PS3 emulator on PS5 anyway due to how many of them used the hardware. But a lot of games will work well, and that alone is reason enough to do it IMO

[@andye7715]

would buy a well made killzone 2/3 HD collection release on PS5 for 60$ right away

[@Buzz_1991]

I just want to play MotorStorm, Resistance, Killzone 2, Oblivion, Super Rub a Dub, F1 Championship Edition (highly unlikely unfortunately...), Rainbow Six Vegas, LittleBigPlanet, GTA IV, Condemned 2 and MGS4. That's all. Thank you.

[@iThomas2000]

I need to play those PS3 Ratchet and Clank games on PS5

[@chemergency]

It's frustrating that PS5 will likely never have full backwards compatibility with earlier PlayStation games, but I feel like the ability to play PS2 games on any PS3 model thanks to PS3HEN and homebrew at-least gives me a sense of compensation. You only need two pieces of hardware to be able to run every generation of PS games through HDMI and only a handful of PS2 and PS4 games would give you trouble.

[@TheAmazingSpiderGuy_99]

I don’t think we’re gonna get much but I think they’ll get some stuff on PS5. Most of the big first party games already have PS4 ports so those aren’t an issue. Considering they have the source code I’d love to see them somehow get the more SPU heavy games like Killzone running even if it isn’t that enhanced. If the guys at RPCS3 can do it without Source Code then Sony can certainly make a good attempt. Even if we don’t see it this generation I think PS6 would definitely have the headroom.

[@NxtDoc1851]

This is unbelievable that a multi-billion dollar corporation cant respect their lineage and bring a proper quality solution functioning properly to play older titles

[@easenst1978]

At least Sony invest money for the future, see Microsoft 👋🤡

[@Ocelot35]

Loool. Micro$oft got pwned.

[@faresfares-ultra]

Remind me of early ps4 years when they said they will add ps2 emulation but it was just ps2 games from the digital store

[@jarde1989]

It’s hilarious gamers throw around words like “respect” as if these weren’t soulless corporations that want to maximize profits

[@cemsengul16]

Why doesn't Sony just release a revision console like a PS5 Pro with an actual Cell Processor on board? This is not so radical, they placed older chips on the PS2 and launch model PS3. I heard they are still producing the cell processor for server blades to use with with PS Now.

[@andrewwright5535]

If Sony puts a CELL/BE chip on the PS5 and has developers rework well optimized PS3 titles to fully utilize the PS5 (GPU, RAM, etc.) those remastered games might perform better than their respective newer x86 games with the same title. TLOU running on CELL/BE but taking advantage of the PS5 GPU, RAM and SSD might be superior in some ways to TLOU x86 for PS5.

[@Late_not_on_time]

Seeing a ps3 section open up on the ps store would be sick

[@radio_j3787]

Correct me of I am wrong but RPCS3 guys don't really have the source code or anything they are just doing what they can scoop up, SONY on the other hand has the source code and everything shouldn't it be easier for them to do that emulation?

[@BigPandaGamer]

community emulators are built on trial-error and educated guess of close enough

[@epobirs]

That is a relatively minor handicap compared to the architecture being so different from nearly everything else in the mainstream market. The closest thing to CELL was the Cray supercomputers of the early 80s that required custom code for nearly everything. You didn't really use a Cray directly. There was typically something like a DEC PDP system as the front end. The visual FX for 'The Last Starfighter' was six months of rendering on a Cray run through a PDP-11. The CELL turned out to be a disaster for the partner companies who never came even close to making back their investment, never mind making a profit. Sony itself would likely have abandoned the CELL for the PS3 if it weren't so late in the game when it became undeniable that it was never going to work as intended. As it is, the PS3 had to be redesigned, from using several CELLs for pretty much everything and processing time allocated as the developers saw fit for their projects to using a conventional GPU supplied by Nvidia couple to a single CELL. If Sony had gone with a more conventional CPU, the emulation issue would have been over and done during the PS4 era.

[@yellowblanka6058]

@@epobirs This - them having the documentation doesn't change the fact that programming for CELL was hard enough, let alone accurately and efficiently emulating it, let alone on the older Ryzen CPU in the PS5. They might be able to make a few efficiency gains here and there with more inside knowledge, but if an i9 is struggling emulating the PS3, those little optimizations are not suddenly going to make the older CPU in the PS5 drastically more efficient. Emulating complex platforms like the PS3 is CPU intensive, no getting around it, you can adjust the slider between efficiency and accuracy to err more on the side of performance, but if you want decent accuracy and performance, it's going to have a CPU cost.

[@mustang750r]

​@@yellowblanka6058I've been asking DF for a while now if it would be possible if the Tempest engine could be used for emulation purposes seeing how Mark Cerny pointed out the similarities between the Tempest and the Cell processor.

[@nerd5]

Very much so, given they have source codes for the 3 and 5. The issue comes in when they need to replicate the architecture of the PS3

[@JDPetersonFLA]

An emulation would be cool but porting a few choice games would be just as cool. Maybe start with Killzone 3 and resistance 3 with enhancement.

[@Marcus_K]

They should just remaster all the big PS3 games for PS4 & PS5. Uncharted and TLoU have already been remastered. There should be a Killzone, Resistance, Infamous, God of War, Sly, Ratchet, Motorstorm and LBP collection for PS4 & PS5.

[@bakedbeings]

What if it was only partial emulation, and the ps5 first partially translated a copy of the binary over to x86 and amd's gp-gpu instructions? I'm thinking of the way Apple translates x86 instructions to the closest arm/AS equivalent in a new binary before running emulation (if i have that right).

[@kabl00muk94]

Be interested to know if John installed linux or windows to run rpcs3 on that board? Id like to see the results with linux, especially after the most recent update for more power limited, lower core count cpu's. Ive had MGS4 running at pretty much native ps3 frame rates on the deck lcd, so I'd imagine, in combination with linux, that board would actually produce some suprising results now. But then i could be wrong 😅😂

[@NATESUCKSATGAMING]

How would they do backwards compatibility? having ps3 psn download games work on PS5? reading a PS3 disc?. Or a complete recoding/remaster of ps3 games on ps5?

[@danielborza4399]

Couldn't they port/remaster the CPU-heavy titles? Like Killzone, Resistance, Infamous, etc.? Seriously, it's evident that that making multiple AAA titles a year isn't possible anymore, so we're stuck with rereleases. This could be something.

[@alyessamaddox7022]

Porting or remastering these games runs into the same problem--the underlying code is just not compatible with modern processors, and emulating it is really, really not easy. The most practical solution is to just remake them with modern software, but that's not exactly easy either.

[@bellotriggerfish]

Kind of a (maybe) dumb question: if the SPUs were mostly used to perform graphical work that the GPU wasn't up to task for, wouldn't it feel natural to maybe implement some kind of SPU emulation on the GPU side of things of a modern GPU like an RTX 4090 or one of the current Radeon cards? I'm not a game developer, but I also understand the SPUs were specifically designed to assist on graphics heavy lifting (at least to my understanding). And modern GPUs have so much horse power for shading and stuff of that nature. Thoughts? EDIT: Never mind I should have finished the video before posting since that question was kinda touched on.

[@corptusion]

How about this for an idea… for multi platform games, use the other platform code vs ps3 code. I bet that would work better.

[@TheSubZero187]

They’ll find a way to make the laziest emulator and tout it. Then move on and never add anything to it.

[@Kyush4]

They are getting PCSX2 devs to work on PS2, and considering the support for AVX-512 in the new AMD CPUs (which the PS3 emulator benefits a lot), we arent getting PS3 until PS6

[@mustang750r]

I'm still holding out for PS5 because of the Tempest Engine. I mean why would Mark Cerny point out how similar it is to the Cell processor?

[@ErnestJay88]

Technically YES since Ryzen 2600X with RX 580 / GTX 1060 is already capable to run RCPS3 PS5 obviously have a better CPU and GPU than that, but DON'T EXPECT Sony to "Turn on PS3 backwards compatibilty" on PS5, they obviously will sell "PS3 Classic" on PSN it means you have to re-purchase your own PS3 game if you want to play it on PS5. Just like some PS2 Classics and PS1 classics on PS3 (non-backward compatible) back then.

[@Shadowespeon17]

Console CPUs have custom changes made to them like stripping out instructions sets that's not very beneficial. You can't compare how modular components work against custom console versions because they're not designed for the Public. There's still around 30% of PS3 games that RPCS3 still has issues with to this day, and that's not even considering how different their own PS3 emulator may be and the fact that it would still be significantly less mature, just like neither their PS1 or PS2 emulators get near Duckstation or PCSX2 simply because of how late they started work on it means it's nowhere near as mature.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

or they can just allow third party disc drives to run original ps3 discs , plus digital ps3 games also exist that people bought

[@ryanh.739]

💯👌 I don’t want PS3 Emulation…. Instead I want full PS3 Remasters of a few of Sonys major IPs. Twisted Metal 2012, SOCOM 4, Killzone 2 & 3 with Full Multiplayer Included. Resistance 2 & 3, MotorStorm Pacific Rift. WARHAWK Remake, MAG. I don’t need the full library, just a few of their games. I’ll take any of those games over Concord, or the Horizon Zero Dawn remake.

[@May1stBurst]

A surprising amount of AAA rpcs3 games run really well on a 15 watt steam deck apu.

[@steel5897]

Has Rich tried to run RPSC3 on that frankenstein PC that's a close match to the consoles? I'd watch that.

[@toddolsen4604]

The spu heavy titles mostly already have PS4 versions, so that's a non issue largely (they wouldn't do it anyway, even if it was possible).

[@redeyejedi4400]

I still have my ps3 but it would be amazing to play killzone 2 at 60fps.

[@WH250398]

That game still looks great today

[@tacos4419]

​Don't sleep on Killzone 3. It's even better than Killzone 2.

[@epobirs]

It's more of a business case difficulty than a technical difficulty. Of the entire PS3 library, eliminating those that have already had remakes on PS4/PS5 (PC availability is a factor but a lesser one), how many are likely to generate significant new revenue on PSN? This isn't a platform in an underdog market position or newly launched, in both cases the platform needs all the help it can get. This project has to justify its investment in revenue directly resulting from the revived access to the games, some of which are already old enough to vote. Sony made a decision when the PS4 launched to focus on remakes rather than backward compatibility with existing games from previous generations. This had the added advantage of not enabling the use of cheap discs at GameStop. So, there needs to be a listing of those PS3 games that aren't already known to be very difficult due to their heavy use of the SPUs, AND can generate new sales.

[@CerealBox64]

Xbox 360 emulation was long considered impossible among gamers online, so much so that it gave the development team behind Xbox One's backwards compatibility program a regular chuckle while working on their very possible Xbox 360 BC program. As complicated as PS3's architecture is, I do think Sony can achieve an emulator of their own with enough time. And that's the issue here, they haven't really appeared to prioritise it, and I think they preferred to maintain PS3 offerings through their streaming service instead. They'll get there, we will have official PS3 emulation eventually, but it's going to take some time.

[@GuardianOwl]

This was the whole reason Sony invested in streaming tech because it was far easier to stream PS3 games to PS4 and PS5 than to make them run natively. I would think a better use of resources would be attempting to press people to actually TRY streaming by offering a diverse mixture of like a dozen select PS3 titles available for free to stream for every tier of PS+ until the end of summer. That’s how Netflix as it is today took off, they initially gave access to the streaming portion as a free bonus with what was up to that point their primary service, the mailing of disc rentals, so that people would try it.

[@IceKoldKilla]

I understand the argument for preservation, in all honesty I wouldn't mind just some titles. Especially since we've since seen MANY remasters. Both on PS4 and now PS5. Maybe the bigger games could get that treatment and instead emulate the less demanding ones. The ones that are also less demanded by people. If I'm going to play the Arkham games in 2024, I'd play the remasters on my PS5. I wouldn't want to emulate the original. I rather get improvements. None of those games were perfect and the devs would've loved tech we have today to improve it. So why be so difficult and demand 1:1 with all games. That's just unnecessary. I all for SOLID remasters and remakes.

[@Hashama]

My question is why the devs cannot reverse port the games from cell to x86 since the code was designed for x86 but ported to consoles. Excuse my ignorance I am not a programmer but they must have mapped the instruction set for the code to run on cell, just asking to reverse the flow using the same pipelines.

[@Highlander77]

I swear most of these comments didn't even watch the video. Or if they did, they didn't listed to what was being said at all. 😆

[@hibber25]

The real reason sony doesn't do it is because you'd be able to play the games online without a ps+ sub

[@tacos4419]

I think they could easily make it so that you would have to have a ps+ sub in order to play ps3 games online on the ps5. Or they would most likely just completely remove the online feature for these games on the ps5. But most ps3 online games are already dead and it's really up to the studios of these games to keep the servers up and maintain them.

[@proggz39]

It would be up to individual studios to bring their servers back, which none of them are going to do

[@suntannedduck2388]

​​@@proggz39very true but same can be said for PS2 multiplayer online games too compared to just titles with split screen or i link I think (yes never used the i link port (system link on Xbox forget what Sony called it later gens) but not all games with online multiplayer would be ignored would they? They wouldn't just advertise the campaign mode would they? Especially even if notable games or whichever have source code/how functional they can get them or how much time it will take to get them ready. But yes the server point is a very important detail besides yes PS+ and whatever PS3 online is still active or just whatever games they want to offer. That or are just happy with PS3 games for Premium (a sign of what titles even if many missing , especially many stuck on PS3 and left behind which ma many will buy it like I have been for years anyway or keep have kept their PS3s for, I mean I'm buying up any 7rh gen shooters I can find even besides 1st/3rd party I never got to experience) while Deluxe owners in other regions have to go off PS2/PSP versions of games instead which some are better in some cases like Sonic Unleashed (if people want less of the open world stuff) or Force Unleashed PSP. (Had all content and better than PS2/WII which is based on that didn't have certain content on those versions but Wii version is on Switch). But depends on the games.

[@tacos4419]

@@proggz39 Some might. Like the ones already keeping the servers up on the PS3 to gather game data or for whatever reason. Or those bigger studios who would see this as a negligible cost. But Sony would need to allow this in the first place and I have no idea what Sony intends to do. But here are some possibilities: 1. Optimistic outcome: Sony tries to bring back as many PS3 online games (even offering $ to studios to have the servers up on the PS5). This would be the best outcome for consumers and would place Sony in a good spot. Sony would take a risk initially, but could greatly benefit from this (for example: more people would have a reason to buy a PS5, even those who initially didn't want to). 2. Possible outcome: Sony brings back PS3 games and completely lets individual studios to decide whether they wan't to bring the servers back on the PS5 (Sony doesn't care whether they bring them back or not). 3. Realistic outcome: Sony goes the easy route and only brings back PS3 games without the option to play online. This would be a dissapointing outcome for most consumers. 4. Pessimistic outcome: Sony doesn't bring back PS3 games at all.

[@Pointman11111]

How does this makes sense? F2p games don't need ps+ and you can still play many games on Ps3 online

[@chumorgan443]

The emulator used for PS1/PS2/PSP also isn't compatible with all the roms/isos ( Jailbroken community has tried the library using them) So a limited PS3 library would be on brand.

[@Solruc_]

They will just fork RPCS3, then resell old games

[@PixelTheRetro]

I really hope for that purerly because I think this is the only way we get a rerelease of Ratchet & Clank games

[@aprotosis]

The reason why there are much fewer Xbox original titles that are back compat is because the OG Xbox's controllers supported analog button inputs on the face buttons and that couldn't be emulated. So any game that used that feature couldn't have a back compat version, which unfortunately means no back compat for DoA: Extreme Beach Volleyball.

[@Manic_Panic]

Beach Volleyball allows you to change analog to digital in the options menu and so does DoA 3. There are barely any OG Xbox games that made use of the pressure sensitivity where it was actually required to play/progress. Other than MGS 2, I can't think of any.

[@AngryApple]

interesting I never knew that

[@jellyface401]

Just do a port until is "easy" to emulate.

[@4carhur1more]

One thing that I'm curious about is since the PS3 is as cumbersome as it is to emulate for, would it actually be easier, from a technical point of view, for a port to come from a PC version of a game since that's closer to x86 architecture? And I understand when it comes to PS3 exclusives, you don't have that option so it wouldn't be applicable outside of 3rd party publishers.

[@krazownik3139]

You clearly didn't remember those days. PC ports of PS3 titles, if they were released in the first place (publishers were bragging about death of PC gaming back in the day, a crisis which they contributed to), run like shit. It was the result of Cell architecture having nothing in common with x86. Some of those titles are heavy even on modern PC hardware, due to lack of optimizations (cause why optimize for the "dead" platform).

[@alyessamaddox7022]

Yeah, there wasn't a lot of ps3 games ported to pc. You had a few that went the other way (pc to ps3) but if they did that route, they... Probably already have ps4 ports, or they're staying on PC.

[@agtjackbauer]

I don't know why I had like your videos so much. When I watch, it sounds like you guys are speaking a different language😂. But I can't stop watching.

[@xnonsuchx]

Full SPE emulation is like trying to emulate NVidia GPU CUDA cores or Radeon GPU Compute Units in a CPU. RPCS3 uses shortcut tricks to emulate SPEs, so that you get less accurate/glitchy results. That’s why only games that use them more lightly work well in emulation.

[@Ricardo29j]

sly thieves in time runs great on my machine but with some bugs that i have to remove some files even ratchet hd works out of the gate i78750h rtx 2060

[@wuzjackalz2880]

Couldn't they simply just release a PS5 with an updated SOC? Sure it would be pricier that a regular PS5 but people who really want this would definitely pay the higher price and since these rumors won't die, there's obviously a market for it. Not to mention the sales they could get by just re-releasing all of the PS3 games digitally in the online store. Seems like an easy moneymaker with very little work needed. Isn't that their business model?

[@alyessamaddox7022]

The tech isn't there yet, unless you price this in line with a high ish end gaming pc. Like, assuming they stick with AMD (and honestly who else would they go with?), there's only two newer generations of cpu and one newer generation of graphics cards, and zen 3 wouldn't be a huge jump, zen 4 would be expensive, and RDNA 3 is... Not a huge leap forward.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

that is weird how they don't do stuff like that anymore, don't know what's stopping them

[@jamalonso2360]

Why PS just remastered the PS3 games and sell it again at a decent price like $40,I will love to play Killzone 2 at 4k/60 and it will look even better than a lot of modern games

[@bernardjones5056]

Should be no more than $20 tbh, but I agree a remaster would be cool.

[@MrCarpediem6]

I think licensing is a big ottle neck (music,etc)

[@creativeusername6453]

Like it doesn't need to be anything fancy just give me basic but solid ports for $20-$40 and yeah I'd totally rebuy stuff like ratchet, motorstorm, resistance ect

[@nategreatgames78]

@@jamalonso2360 as much as people hate it, that would be a better way than emulation. Fix up or remake the game in a better state and let it really breath new life into it taking advantage of the better hardware it’s made for

[@michaelboyer82]

I'm calling it, Sony won't release a ps3 emulator for ps5, they'll have it on the PS6 as a selling point.

[@alyessamaddox7022]

I mean, that would fit the jump in CPU performance likely required to make it work. PS6 with Zen 6 or something...

[@dontsweatme4588]

The best way to play ps3 games, is still with a ps3 unfortunately. I miss my jailbroken unit …time to go to eBay

[@Hijynx87]

is it easy to do? I have a slim from 2011.

[@ConnorH2111]

nah im playing gran turismo 5 in 4k locked 60fps on pc.

[@NickJR528]

​@Hijynx87 It's very easy. All you'll need is a flash drive and watch a guide it'd probably take maybe 30 minutes

[@PatrickHoffer]

No trophies on a jailbroken unit!

[@brunoh.1312]

possible but unlikely, not on the scale Microsoft did it at least, PS3 emulation is too complex and would require the emulator to be tweaked to each game's needs, performance is spotty but playable in some titles, in others smooth as butter, that means time and money, it's a rough path but possible, they would also need a compatibility layer like rosetta or wrapper to install games/updates, yeah, too much investment and little return, thats why they resorted to porting the games from PS3 to PS4, because bringing them through emulation based backwards compatibility was too much, is not about power, it's about time and money, getting things to run requires specific tweaks, just try RPCS3 and play a game like GOW3 without tweaking either for performance or visuals. Microsoft made it look easy but they started the backwards compatibility program for NGXBOX in late 2007 and tweaked the XBOX 360 kernel/SDK to make it easier to emulate, the PS3 didn't get that.

[@flink1231]

I think down the line sony may want to check how much it would cost to add to ps6 cpu the cell processor and just emulate the gpu.

[@rabiroden]

As long as they get Tokyo Jungle running, everybody will be happy.

[@yellowblanka6058]

Random people on the internet have a propensity for having no idea how technically complex some of these things are. Probably the same people who expect good PS2 emulation on $50-100 handhelds. PS3 emulation is something even higher-end PC CPUs can struggle with depending on the game, so the lower-end to mid-range older Ryzen in the PS5 would certainly struggle. I think, like with the PS2 Classics on the PS4, a portion of the library could be emulated well enough, but it would likely be a fairly small proportion of the library.

[@thatssomegoodpie]

Maybe they’ll develop custom hardware for the ps5 pro to handle ps3 emulation.

[@ranruy]

The cell in the ps3 is pretty complex, would be interesting to see how they go about doing it. Could be using the same thing the pc ps3 emulator uses.

[@lizardemperorkorbac4281]

I would assume at this point it would be easier to just port the game to PS5 rather than customizing the emulator for that specific game. Also you could sell the port as a remaster for 20-40$, rather than having people use their old discs.

[@asmod4n]

You need a CPU with avx512 to run all ps3 titles smoothly in an emulator, intel doesn’t sell those to consumers anymore and when they did it reduces the clock rate by 50%. But AMD does that at full speed in their latest CPU generation. So the PS6 will be able to run PS3 games.

[@zodiac909]

John said Naught Dog wouldnt release uncharted on ps5 since its on ps4..he must have forgotten that both last of us games have gotten a "remaster" on Ps5 🤫😅

[@gacekwilkooki]

I stil keep my ps3 super slim for that reason. Even my PC with moderately modern CPU (i5-12400f, which is far more superior than PS5's CPU.) can't handle it.

[@mycatexploaded]

Emulators are easy to implement on consoles. The modder communities do it with every console as soon as it can be hacked. The companies making the consoles have no excuse to not have emulators already implemented on day one of the consoles launch.

[@ffxiikd1426]

If Drakengard 3 and 3D dot game hero get there i will be happy.

[@technicallyme]

Why does my Apple m2 play ps3 games well? Steam deck seems to hold its own as well

[@Sevent77]

I think PS3 on PS5 is very doable even with full blown backwards compatibility with discs support, obvious issue is time and $ PS would have to spent on this. The biggest issue with modern emulation is that it is mostly guess work, emulators like RPCSX3, PCSX2, Duckstation or PPSSPP are created after years of documented experimentation, disassembly and reverse engineering, but unlike them PS has the full specs for PS3 they can create a perfect emulator given that they're willing to invest enough time and $ and that obviously isn't gonna happen.

[@WilliumBobCole]

I have been dying to play a complete Killzone collection for forever :'(

[@headninjadog8120]

I bought some back compat OG and 360 games on my Series S and thought most of the games were great except GTA 4. GTA 4 doesn't look so great. Hopefully PS3 emulation can fix that.

[@forza8719]

The irony is outside of PC that is the best looking version you’re playing.

[@headninjadog8120]

@@forza8719 Does it look as good as the360 version? I don't remember.

[@WH250398]

The huge benefit though, is that version is the only console version capable of running at 60fps. Series X runs it locked.

[@worldshaking0502]

I want PS3's FFXIII series remastered for the modern consoles with QoL improvements.

[@Evobed562]

Imagine being able to pop in socom 2 with live servers on a ps5 that would be the day. We can’t even get a remaster of it

[@MeiSapphire1]

I’d like play Mortal Kombat 3D era classic on gamepass or psplus.

[@CrimeGaming1337]

I just upgraded my PS3 with a 1TB SSD xD, and I also bought a copy of Ridge Racer 7. Additionally I am using an Adapter for my PS4 controller. It's perfectly playable on my 4K TV, 1080p gets upscaled okay-ish actually. Native 4k and visually improved ridge racer 7 would be nice as well though :D

[@hurricane7727]

Ps4 Controllers Work on the Ps3!

[@CrimeGaming1337]

@@hurricane7727 Not 100%. While I was able to play the God of War collection with a PS4 controller, I always had to check if it was really working. For some games it doesn't really work at all it seems, at least for me. I had issues with the sly cooper collection and also with the Jak and Daxter collection...

[@ravenshrike]

Given the PS3 emulation on PC, the answer is it's possible but not very realistic. Only if they dedicated a proper programming group solely to the emulator for several years prior to even tailoring the emulator to specific games would it work as an AIO emulator. Now maybe that's what they did, especially since going forward that emulator should easily adapt to the PS6 so it would be a useful thing going forward.

[@IrrationalCharm]

I don’t see how it makes sense to emulate pa3 games on PS5. Most games we care about have already been ported. Only a few remain like Killzone and Resistance

[@ally20]

If they are doing it. Expect the PS3 store to be taken offline shortly afterwards. Remember the backlash over that when the tried the first time?

[@Grantallica]

PS3 still has nearly 1 million active users!

[@tacos4419]

​@@GrantallicaThere's more than that. There's around 2 million monthly active users (that is guareented). These numbers were apart of the data aquired from an Insomniac Games breach. And this breach only counted the PS3 userbase that was connected to the PSN. Consoles without an active internet connection or jailbroken consoles weren't counted. So the true number is even higher. It's most likely 3 or 4 million. Maybe even 5 or more.

[@tacos4419]

​​​@@GrantallicaThere is more than 1 million actually. PS3 still has around 2 million monthly active users (this is guaranteed). These numbers were apart of the data aquired from an Insomniac Games breach. This breach only counted the userbase that was connected to the PSN. Consoles without an active or internet connection or jailbroken consoles weren't counted. So the real number for active PS3 users is even higher. Most likely around 3-4 million. Maybe even 5 million or more.

[@MiguelRodriguez-lp9et]

Why can't everyone show this level of backlash for Nintendo? They just closed the Wii u and the 3ds and everyone just accepted it. Why the the f**k is Nintendo always an exception?

[@tacos4419]

@@Grantallica More than 1 million. There's around 2 million active monthly users on the ps3. And this number only includes those signed in to playstation network (it doesn't include those without an internet connection or those playing online with jailbroken PS3's). So I would guess the true number of active monthly users on the PS3 is most likely 3-4 millon. Maybe even 5 million.

[@phawxhunter]

It's easier and profitable for Sony to port a PS3 game to PS5/PC or subsidising third party developers like Konami and R* to port than developing a closed emulator to do BC. Too much R&D for it to happen.

[@ClosestNearUtopia]

Well, idk, the thing is, you need huge hardware for ps3 emulation. But yes we dont really know how the cell actually operated. So, maybe its possible? Maybe its underpowered for some games.

[@anneritchie8264]

Xbox: Crimson Skies works great on Series X. And i still suck at it! I wish there were a sequel for me to suck at, too!!

[@kurikuraconkuritas]

I always thought sony will just use the rpcs3 without asking for permission

[@leejones2113]

So what kept them from emulating ps 1 and 2 games?

[@sparoc3]

Some PS1 & PS2 games are already on system. You cannot run your own discs cuz PS4 and PS5 cannot read CD/DVD plus there was no online store for those games. Also Sony gets to sell you those game again.

[@callagun]

Name name of the game is Money! Ps3 emulator is there for ages and get better and better. Ps5 is plenty capable of run this software.I predict they will sell the individual games though emulation, exactly as they made on ps4 and ps3. But the PlayStation will not profit enough doing a ps3 emulator or a backward compability, due game licenses and those things.

[@gnoclaude7945]

Seeing as I can run ps3 games on the steamdeck im going to say yes. Its funny how Ps and Xbox switched. Last gen xbox had few games and used emulation to fill the gap. This gen Ps has no games and is bringing emulation to fill the 2 year 1st party game gap while Xbox is dropping games left and right. Strange days indeed.