DG REACTS to SaltEMike and ERAD on CIG Explaining How Cargo Works in 4.0 | Star Citizen Economy Talk

[@joshuawelch2904]

EVE took 10 years to become a fully player economy with everything made by players. Before that there was a base price on some items. Unfortunately all we have is a dev economy. Once crafting comes into play and players need resources to craft then they better have a buy and sell where players then can start running the economy. This was kinda how JITA got started it was one of the best systems for manufacturing near the major alliances. Until we get crafting it is a moot point and values for buying and selling need adjusted.

[@DG360]

Absolutely agree. This is A to B fetch quest, Excel sheet manually entered CIG Dev pricing for baby 1.0 PvE mission based trading grind currently. Everything you said is correct for a player driven dynamic market in an MMO. Crafting and Manufacturing will absolutely need bid and ask orders by players to fairly compensate risk and time by player manufacturers, traders, miners, and industrialists. CIGs planned Ai system setting prices will most likely be badly simulated demand or policed by devs so absurdly that it won't leave but a hair of wiggle.room for profit and may just break incentive for gamers interested in trying industrial gameplay at all.

[@joshuawelch2904]

@@DG360 It currently is and they had to boost numbers in save stanton part 1 phase 4 because they had too low options. I am looking forward to the crafting but until then they should boost the main planet stations since they are the hubs. I understand smaller quantities for the current AI end users with the stations being the bulk buyers. The planets being the bulk buyers is stupid because of the real cost of gravity wells and to shift cargo. A real interstellar society would have the trade stations be the main trade and then do a wheel and spoke model. Erad is correct in currently the profit is too low between the systems.

[@thornfielder]

I agree with you (as a veteran EVE player). The vision they showed for Star Citizen at IAE looks great with org system control etc. It just needs thousands of players interacting to drive a local economy. They will likely need to keep a 'light touch' algorithm going to balance the market and keep things fluid. This will represent NPC outpost activity to go along with their settlement seeding tool.

[@DG360]

Exactly what I'm hoping for too on the economic PvE/Algo/Ai design side of things. This will take some time to perfect, more assetts, industrial player manufacturing sites/crafting/homesteading, and with a dash of luck some player based buy and sell orders. We are very early to this side of the game mechanics and I'm glad we're finally getting closer. What I saw at CitizenCon was very very encouraging. Now where is Tony Z at? lol

[@Erad_Prime]

The thing is (as I wrote in Fan Feedback which you completely ignored) Mike didn't watch my video nor the reason why I made this issue council. The problem with the economy, in addition to being Dev-generated which is bad enough, is that there is no high risk high reward at all. I'm making a spreadsheet now, going to all of the possible trading locations, no where I'm seeing an adventage in trading between Pyro and Stanton. The risk is just not worth the extra profit and so, no one will trade between the systems. That's it. The best profits I've seen are 35% but you can also make 30% profits from Stanton to Stanton ... it's ridiculous. There should be at least 50% profits from Pyro to Stanton, just to make it fun!

[@DG360]

Got to have a bigger reward for the riskier risk for sure. I understood your angle. Mike focused on it in a technical a to b fetch quest as did the cig dev. I didn't miss your point bro. Also, I didn't ignore your posts in fanfeedback. I generally skip posts in there not related to the show or people's personal lives. When I see sc in a non sc related chat room I save it for sc topics ;) Merry Xmas. Threw you a huge shout out for the donation this year on the last stream getting us through the zefrank bs. Love you bro!

[@Erad_Prime]

@@DG360 Any time, DG. I was genuinly happy to be able to help :)

[@jamieford9391]

I don't think they ever play the game. The lack of ongoing cargo from base to base is obvious but has been completely ignored. Planet, pick up, back to planet, nothing to buy, log out.

[@Dkcampo]

Every effort now to balance the economy is a complete waste until all active agents, such as base building and crafting resource demands, are added to the game flow. People want everything now and instant, and dont think on the proper way to work. Im confident in CIG

[@joeynuggetz]

I love physicalized cargo for small to med loads. I hope they dont remove it. And people bitch about weird size cargo holds on ships but this could be another gameplay mechanic to stack things in optimal ways and have limitations with certain ships. This could be a thing where one chooses a ship cuz the hold is more "square" while others might choose a cheaper ship with cargo "challenges".

[@DG360]

Amen

[@daveivory1278]

I'm sure we will see a larger player driven economy once actual crafting by players come to life. In the mean time, while the dev driven economy seems like it's at the present 100% of the game that will change. I would guess at the moment the dev created market really only represents 20% to 25% of actualy future economy. Remember right now we only have the game market and are still waiting on the player market. Overall, honestly at the moment everyone is over-reacting to what is there now and not what is around the corner.

[@DG360]

Completely agree, my dude.

[@edwarddomenico9601]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. LEOs and major landing zones should not have any limitation on what can be bought and sold from either Admin terminals or Tdds. Availability of some goods based on planet or system(Pyro, et al.) should be the only limiting factor. All commodities should have a base price set by devs, but controlled through player trading. For example, to use Cobalt as in the video say we have a base price of 40uec per SCU as the baseline/dev controlled price. Players move Cobalt to where it's not readily available like Onituary Station and the price increases substantially by player trading dictating the increase. I am in complete agreement that a player market is essential for this game to work at least from an industry side of things. Devs cannot and should not be the final word on commodity pricing, especially once crafting is made available. Let players Duke it out in the market, rather than telling players what the market should be. Let us market PvP CIG. It's all we ask.

[@timkreis8543]

I still dont get how the economy is supposed to work when you can ge everything back with insurance and warranty down to every ship component. Way easier to just dupe items via insurance than crafting it seems.

[@Christopher_Crayven]

I loved the way EVE did trade.

[@DG360]

Amen

[@tukki649]

Bring out Tony Z!!!

[@DG360]

Release the Kraken!!!

[@GalacticAbsurdity]

Having a trade loop, even if it's simulated. The goods shift depending on whats in demand. If I run gold, others run gold. At a certain amount that should be enough. Either change location to sell or switch to something else to trade. The problem with SC is, this does not exist at all. Orison should have somethings on high demand, Lorville something else and the same with A18 or NB. If some of these materials only exist in Pyro, woops there it is! Then do the same with Pyro, but this will be weapons and drugs. So when JumpTown goes up, you sell that in Pyro. Now that loop could involve weapons from Grim Hex. (For a certain amount of time). The same can be made with components. Once the game is in the right place and we can start to build our own shit, thats where the player "True" economy comes online. The other "small" loop can still be there for new players.

[@DG360]

The reasons you state are exactly why I state that we need to have player driven demand through buy and sell orders on an easily accessible market, and a manufacturing base that manufactures goods we actually need for either pvp or gameloops yet to be designed. Great comments Glactic!

[@joejjj4378]

cargo doesnt work is the answer. I just put 120 RMC in the freight elevator and the server crashed before I could lower it. Lost everything. Until my time is valued I'm not spending any time

[@DG360]

Totally get it if it was in the 4.0 preview as I expected bugs until itnofficially goes live.

[@GarrickMerriweather]

Yeah, Salty Mike is one of those guys who just does not not get it. If it was written somewhere on a piece of paper, he and his ilk are like "It's not like they exactly said. Boo hoo hoo. That's why I stopped following his channel. His doom & gloom stichk got annoying and boring.

[@DG360]

I haven't watched him enough to get a read. But, I get when you feel something or someone gets repetitive. It can get boring and I'm like you, I lose interest. Although, I have ADHD so I'm all over the place which can be just as furiating haha My Gf is worse lol

[@Valium_x]

Inception.