Diablo IV - How Damage Reduction actually Works

#diablo4 #theorycrafting #stats
Hi everyone. In this video, I will address the confusion that a lot of people have around buckets with damage reduction stats as well as diminishing returns.
Check out part 1 of the DR series: • Diablo IV - Does Damag...
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Thank you!
#diabloiv

[@michaelschmidt145]

I enjoy these game mechanic breakdowns. Thank you for these videos!

[@Xarrio]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@slumped7341]

No one is dropping this kind of D4 knowledge! Great job. I feel like I need a “To Sum it All Up” video with all this info from the past videos XD

[@knicklichtjedi]

Reject buckets, embrace cups!

[@joshrees1591]

I’m soooooo glad you made this video. Everyone would tell me I was wrong explaining what you’ve just confirmed.

[@stefansabadas7177]

wtf? the ingame stats and materials sheet says all DR from distant add up together with diminishing returns, the same for DR from close and DR global. then these 3 totals are multiplied together. i mean to believe that they would lie to us so badly is insane..

[@chriswhitefield3026]

I havent watched the video yet, but damage reduction works the opposite of damage. Additive is better than multiplicative. .1+.1 is better than .1*.1. This means you want less buckets with more numbers being additive.

[@pencilcheck]

If this is true, then sounds like (100-100*(1-DR)*(1-DR)*(1-DR))/100 will give you the total DR% after multiplying all DR pieces up. e.g. 20% and 30% will give 44% total instead of 50%

[@elymX]

my man question. can you completely ditch out imbuement as a rogue? i'm fcking trired of casting it seriously. can I just go with Vulnerable + Crit damage and still do decent damage?

[@Xarrio]

I haven't tried it personally, but I think you could do okay dmg without if you spec your paragon correctly. That being said, I don't think there are enough other sources of dmg to make up for the loss of dmg from imbuements. If you aren't trying to push high tiers, I'm sure you could do just fine without it.

[@bigimportantman1544]

Moral of the story is to stack large DR effects like DR while injured or fortified. Prioritize getting the max-roll on DR because the benefit is exponentially better than max-rolling your damage stats. And don’t overlook DR while injured. You can stack over 81% DR while injured from just 3 pieces of max-rolled gear. (Pants, Boots, Amulet)

[@sneaky5141]

except you dont get injired by anything threatening at all, if youre hit at 50%hp you just die outright you dont get injured if you didnt get 1 hit at 70% life or under then the content is too easy to worry about dr stacking anyway

[@bigimportantman1544]

@@sneaky5141 I don’t think the damage ignores Injured DR if you take the initial hit above 35%. It retroactively takes your Injured DR into account for any damage that puts you below 35%. Having Max-Rolled DR effectively gives you an extra 175% health & it’s very easy to maintain.

[@sneaky5141]

@@bigimportantman1544 there is no way it proactively counts the injured status' DR into damage you take at 36% of your HP or above otherwise you would literally never be able to be one shot by anything by stacking injured DR unless you were like 75 levels under a lightning buffed goatman jump or something lol

[@bigimportantman1544]

@@sneaky5141 Maybe. I’m stacking over 80% DR even without injured DR so it’s hard to tell. There is a perma-shield ability that some people use while injured & that does make you almost impossible to kill.

[@sneaky5141]

@@bigimportantman1544 i tried the DR while injured in the first couple weeks and DR from poisoned enemies or such just works 10x better for not dying IMO

[@SCSabre]

There are diminishing returns but not because it is implemented by devs in the game; but because it is how the math works. There are diminishing returns because adding "first" 20% DR gives you worse (nominal) return (say, 20dmg of 100) than adding "second" 20% (say, another 16dmg). BTW. If this was additive then you could possibly have DR > 100%. This can never happen when you multiply like this. So, actually, math is the first clue to how things can be implemented in the game.

[@andrewg3196]

Shhh everyone this guy doesn't know about EHP

[@Deadgray]

Simpler way for me in this example: damage_taken = damage_received * (1.0 - * 0.9*0.8*0.85*0.75) -> damage_taken = damage_received * 0.541.

[@bigbassjonz]

This is cleaner and simplified.

[@reddragon2943]

ok, you confused me more than ever. I just wanna know HOW the STAT Damage Reduction Actually Works. the Description says: Reduces incoming damage taken from all Sources, After applying your Armor and Elemental Resistances. But I am Playing a Rogue I have no Spells or skills that give Armor. is this stat useless without the ability to "applying your Armor and Elemental Resistances"??

[@Xarrio]

Hey, sorry to confuse you, this is actually the 2nd video in the damage reduction playlist. Here is the start of the playlist that helps explain how DR works (and no, this stat works the same regardless of your armor/resistances): kzbin.info/www/bejne/gn2rqoyidqeLqpI

[@jonmyers4547]

How much dodge can you get and how effective is it? Looking into dodge on sorcerer for a different style of survival.

[@bigimportantman1544]

Dodge stacks better because the affixes are additive… but I would take it as a secondary defensive stat because dodge is only better for long-term sustain against lots of little attacks. Stacking DR can save you from being 1-shot 100% if the time. Stacking Dodge can only save you from being 1-shot a fraction of the time. Dodge also doesn’t provide any benefit from environmental damage or DoT effects.

[@NanoNaps]

@@bigimportantman1544 Dodge is sadly not additive either

[@rvt_jimz9573]

how about barrier? did DR apply to barrier also?

[@raaaaaagh4263]

Really appreciate your efforts and time. After watching your video I still got a question🙋‍♂️ about fortify dr. If I put 5 sapphires (3%dr each when fortified) on my armors, do they work as dmg*0.97*0.97*0.97*0.97*0.97 ? (if that’s the case they will be in the trash can) or dmg*0.85?

[@manic7134]

The former

[@georgerichards7695]

I got a DR question.... Do you know what order DR is applied in? like which DR go first. Knowing the order they are applied in, one could exploit that to Max his over all DR. Knowing which DR go's first and 2nd. would help a build out so much. Maxing that first one as high as you can get it would have more effect. And do you know if armor's DR is applied before anything?

[@Daffou980]

Good question

[@Xarrio]

The order in which DR is applied does not matter. It comes out the same regardless b/c it is all multiplicative. 5x6=6x5 Check out my resist video for an example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/inqoYY2Bas9ojrc

[@bobnewkirk7003]

I would assume that each type of damage reduction is calculated as a total character reduction and that value is used for incoming damage. The idea that multiple instances of DR to Close are multiplicative not additive is somewhat counterintuitive from a programing perspective (5:22). The character sheet is able to confirm this (assuming its not lying). Also there is a second "Advanced tooltip" option below the value ranges that indicates [+] or [x] that may be helpful in showcasing these values. Testing would have to be done in game in order to verify that the character sheet isn't lying as well, because often the background calculations and what is shown are different.

[@NanoNaps]

The character sheet shows already the multiplied values so it doesn't matter. If you have 2 instances of 50% dmg reduction from close the character sheet will show 75% This does not affect the calculation though because you can move multipliers around in an equation and it won't change the result. Let's say I also have 2 sources of 10% damage reduction which would be 19% You could say they are "buckets" and now go DMGx(0.25)x(0.81) = 0.2025 => 20.25% (DR 79.75%) But it doesn't change if we write DMGx(0.5)x(0.5)x(0.9)x(0.9) you can move multipliers around so DMGx(0.9)x(0.5)x(0.9)x(0.5) gives the same result meaning no buckets.

[@L.B.O.E]

If you multiply the dmg taken % together its a much faster calculation, (.9 x .8 x .85 x .75 = 45.9) so you will receive 45.9% of the dmg

[@ricoblue84]

It's .459, but the 100 puts it in the %. I did the same math, so I know what you're saying. I'm doing it that way too, that much quicker, but you need the above to do the shortcut.

[@edvaedan9161]

Probably a dumb question but when does armor figure in? Before or after DR is considered?

[@googleplaynow9608]

Because every percentage is multiplied together, it doesn't matter what percent is first. The largest will always "take precedence."

[@googleplaynow9608]

So even though it technically isn't, it's safe to assume your armor value is first if that helps...

[@edvaedan9161]

@@googleplaynow9608 so basically it’s just another DR%

[@googleplaynow9608]

@@edvaedan9161 Yeah, armor is just DR based on your lvl vs enemy level. Capped at 85%

[@normy6801]

@@googleplaynow9608 so no matter how much armor I stack, it only reduce 85%?

[@dio4296]

Another way to do it is to just make the the percentage a decimal number and multiply it, for example 10% DR is the same as 0.90. The calculation in the video would be (0.9) x (0.8) x (0.85) x (0.75) = 0.459 which is the same as your 45.9%.

[@bondric]

but there's a bucket of RD from armor, normal rd, rd from close, etc right? i add same sources of dr? As it is shown in the character abilities? I mean, if i have for example 80% (cap)DR from armor and then i have 2 source of close DR, like 5% and 10%. It is (1-0.8) * (1-0.15) or it is (1-0.8)*(1-0.05)*(1-0.1) ?

[@advfreecasualgamer9427]

good video. They say if you cant explain it, you probably dont understand it well enough. this is not the case for this guy. Good job there.

[@sergeyreklama4198]

Mechanics, lets gooo! Thx for the vid)

[@Xarrio]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@dizk8488]

Does debilitating toxins work in the same way? Since it reads poisoned enemies deal less damage. Does that mean its equivalent to 15% DR in solo play because its all multiplicative?

[@jiahe8747]

I can't recall the source but I read it somewhere that "DR while fortified" doesn't contribute to the DR of a Barrier. And also the total value of "DR while fortified" shown in the stats works additively with the 10% DR provided by fortified. Could you test these? If these assumptions are correct, then there are "buckets", that you don't want to stack "DR while fortified" with a barrier build. On the other hand, when not using a barrier, the more "DR while fortified" you have, the more return you get, so you actually want to get every slot of "DR while fortified" if you decide to go this route.

[@TheBlackScrap]

Do you think you can do a feep divr into tyreals might. Im conflicted whether it's best using that or a leggo chest with 4 ranks of DS. I feel tankier witg tyreals on. Plus I like the arrows as a way to apply cc

[@xmatthyx1]

hold on, there IS diminishing returns, but on adding to the same damage reduction stat. Adding to DR while fortified beyond I think 20 or 25% def. hits diminishing returns, as blue gems don't add their maximum value. I know you weren't referring to that, but I think it's important to bring it up to make sure people don't get confused with your statement at the end of the video

[@Tobez]

Your character looks like a chad-jesus rogue, sent to Sanctuary to defeat the spawns of hell

[@Yanus3D]

Mathematic of D4 developers are from parallel World 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@toorcicefist8018]

Of course there is a diminishing return. You just mapped it out. The first multiplier gives the most return and the rest are diminished versions if based on an equal percent. You'll never see the value of the first of an equal reduction numbers again in a series of the same percentages. The version we can all witness of the same is movement speed. Visual results as well as seeing it in the tool tip. Same concept. The less each 10 or 20 percent of move speed you add makes your toon move faster the more the diminish becomes obvious. You don't move much faster by adding 20 percent once you reached 180 percent.

[@Digitalv0id39]

So each piece of gear, aspect, paragon node, etc, is it's own multiplier even if each source shares the same DR type? So if I have 10% DR to close on pants and chest, you don't add them together?

[@zeruelasmire]

great! would love to see your take on damage types (and .... buckets.)

[@Xarrio]

There are so many videos on damage types and buckets out there already... not sure it is worth doing unless there is some new twist to it. Maybe tho!

[@Teyronulous]

I should have just kept watching your videos huh? Answered my questions from the last one 😅

[@rendxkeno]

ive been looking for this for ages. thank you.

[@Xarrio]

No problem!

[@Elusmash]

So the in-game stats for damage reduction that actually add together my 2 pieces of 20% close damage reduction to give me a value of 40% is actually lying to me?

[@rtoma76]

This man sounds like a bucketist! DR is your friend, invite all the DR’s over, let they sit and stay a while.

[@D4Shahda]

What applies first? Is the 1st multiplier more important then subsequent ones to have higher or lower. Do it matter?

[@Xarrio]

Nope. The order does not matter. It is all multiplication. 100(.9)(.8) = 100(.8)(.9) Hope that helps!

[@tylerturner8070]

Is reducing damage delt by monsters not a separate "bucket"...??

[@lewisnash2155]

Couple of questions: Does it matter what order your put your gear on? Should you equip higher value DR first for example? Or does it all add up the same in the end? Does the actual monster damage amount not matter when working out DR or it’s effective value? A boss that hits for 10k versus a fallen that hits for 500? DR is not worth as much a +hp against the fallen / a smaller amount of DR is more effective against the boss?

[@Xarrio]

Order does not matter. The actual monster dmg just effects how much the dmg it does at the end, but the DR still reduces it by the same percentage regardless.

[@kevo212]

Can someone help explain which DR is better? It would seem flat DR is better because it would apply in all conditions? versus distant or close, which will only reduce damage if enemies are distant/close, right? so that means getting flat DR on chest and pants are must-haves? thanks

[@Xarrio]

all DR is good. Best is usually to get it all on pants/chest... flat dr/dr close/dr far/armor

[@massattackpower]

What happens if i have 120% DR while injured?

[@marcbedard2474]

Keep the video coming, solid job love your content !!!

[@Xarrio]

Thanks! Will do!

[@ToadstedCroaks]

What? No, you absolutely get diminishing returns, you show that during the process of calculating it. Each new source of damage reduction reduces less total damage than the previous one, assuming all values are equal. The first 25% will always be the biggest decrease of raw damage value, as the second one is reducing a smaller value than the first. 25 damage reduced is bigger than 18.75. That's a diminishing return. It only looks like it's not when you are resetting your base value each time, which is fundamentally wrong. That's a trick people use to pretend you aren't losing value, when you absolutely are. Look at resists ( I know, this was made before the revamp, but it was supposed to work like this prior anyway ). The first 30% is 30% less damage taken ( Assuming a starting position of 0 ), or just 30 out of 100. The next 30% is .. another 30 out of 100, or 42.8% less damage taken. If you went another 30% you would have gained another 75% damage reduction. That's opposite of diminishing returns, each chunk is actually exponentially increased in value proportional to the previous chunk, despite them reducing damage by the same flat value. Multiplicative reduction will never give you more value, and multiplicative increases will only ever give more value. This is also, without "buckets". Buckets mess everything up regardless. Additive reductions and increases can be amazing with a cap ( like with damage taken or critical chance ), while absolutely rubbish without one ( Freeze duration or damage dealt ) All of which are subject to fuzzy math.

[@Xarrio]

You are correct that each extra dr stat reduces the total amount of original damage by less, but the point of the vid is that looking at how much of the total amount of the original damage is reduced is misleading in terms of how it actually affects survivability. Each dr % reduces the remaining dmg by the exact amount that it says, but this in turn ends up making you survive exponentially more hits as shown in the vids.

[@richardmenz3257]

Technically it is in buckets they just happen to also by multiplied so it doesn't matter if it is in buckets or not. I am sure in dev at some point each bucket worked like armor with a cap of 85%, but found the dr to high so changed the values to be all multiplied within the bucket and each bucket multiplied.

[@gateCodeKC]

No.

[@richardmenz3257]

@@gateCodeKC to what?

[@bumbixp]

Too late, bucket is already out the window and falling to its death!

[@HexedHavoc]

So the nodes on the paragon board are basically worthless? like 2% dmg from close etc

[@Xarrio]

I wouldn't say worthless. 2% can still add up.

[@suttiwatruengwitcha2404]

What about DR while fortified from sapphire socket. Is it not additive like 3%+3% but 3%*3%?

[@Xarrio]

Check out my video on Gems to understand how gems work.

[@whiplashtv]

D4 math is a well-needed niche. Thanks

[@sol5916]

Thank you for these videos. I’m really tired of content creators taking the same 2 builds and adjusting it a little bit and calling it their own

[@Xarrio]

You're welcome. The most fun way to play an ARPG is to understand the mechanics of the game and make your own builds IMO! Much more satisfying. Tho I do get the fact that many don't have time for that and just want to grab a build off the internet and copy it, which is a good way to get started when you are new. And if a content creator is putting out multiple builds a week, chances are they haven't really tested the build and are either doing what you said or just making something mediocre. But it is hard to know if a build is good/mediocre unless you know the mechanics of the game. My general rule is if someone is showing off a build in something less than T80, it is probably just for leveling/farming lower level content, which is fine for most people anyways.

[@IronBear47]

Wait a min… so DR from Close Enemies for example does not just apply to close… but all forms of damage? So if it says DR then thats all that matters? Because if this is the case then the DR from xyz sources affixes can roll much higher than the flat DR affixes… this would change everything for me. Hope you see this comment and respond. @xarrio

[@Xarrio]

"DR from close enemies" applies to all types of dmg from an enemy that is close to you. The dmg isn't "close" it is the enemy that has to be close. Hope that helps!

[@MeAMuse]

Where does armor fit in? Does armor deflect damage before or after DR?

[@justinthinkify]

How does this type of DR work with the DR we get in Armor?

[@SuperCatacata]

How tf did using buckets as a representative for math even get so popular in the D4 community. Lol

[@Xarrio]

Beats me!

[@vladreugreu]

Hmm.. intresting .. evbdy says dr simple is best .. but u re math proovs that bigger % numbers reduction like dmg while injured is better ?

[@Xarrio]

That is an interesting point. DR while injured is very powerful for that reason... when you are injured being the caveat. If your health is at 36% and then you take a hit that is 40% of your max health, then that DR did nothing however because you are dead before your health ever reached below 35%. But I like having some on my boots for that reason to help vs bleed/poison dmg. Definitely has saved me.

[@cheeseburger3100]

This need to have a tldr version for the dumb ppl like me lol

[@RM-qv1vd]

Another excellent video...thanks.

[@xmixaplix]

Fk the buckets, its all about armor armor armor 😝

[@codzilla360]

I think that both "DR from close" will be treated as one "DR bucket" therefore you would get a 35% DR so for 90dmg you would reduce to 58.5dmg. Thats only my interpretation though I could be wrong

[@Shangryy]

I thought about it as well and did some experiments with my stuff. Turns out Xarrio is right : no buckets at all, the x percent DR from close ennemy from piece A of equipment does not add with the y percent DR from close ennemy from piece B of equipment. Weird maths at Blizzard's ...

[@codzilla360]

@@Shangryy Thanks for sharing your results, now we know for sure!

[@thiagoceccato5344]

Yor are a Monster for explain this to us, tnx a lot =D

[@jonathanz9895]

I think that is the definition of diminishing returns because with 70% damage reduction you did not take 30 dmg from 100 dmg if thats not how diminishing returns works i would be interested in a video on that

[@SeuOu]

There are no diminishing returns for DR. All DR sources are multiplicative with each other. You're getting confused because you're thinking of them as being additive for some reason.

[@jonathanz9895]

@@SeuOu so it's not about them being additive or multiplicative it's the fact that your first 25% reduces 25 dmg and your second 25% reduces less than 25 dmg the return of your investment into a second 25% mitigation is diminished a bit

[@SeuOu]

@@jonathanz9895 Hmm, I really want to help you. I think comparing the four possible cases for how DR could function might do the trick. I'll use your reference of having two sources of 25% DR and taking a 100 dmg hit. Final dmg will always be: Initial_Dmg x (1 - Net_DR) = Final_Dmg Case 1) Additive DR, No Diminishing Returns: 25%DR + 25%DR = 50% Net_DR, Final_Dmg = 50 Case 2) Additive DR, Diminishing Returns: 25%DR + 25%DR = 50 Case 3) Multiplicative DR, No Diminishing Returns: 25%DR x 25%DR = 43.75% Net_DR, Final_Dmg = 56.25 Case 4) Multiplicative DR, Diminishing Returns: 25%DR x 25%DR = 56.25 Diablo4 uses Case 3 to calculate DR. Your examples are all using the logic as if Case 1 were true, instead.

[@jonathanz9895]

@@SeuOu case 3 and 4 have the same outcome and one is diminishing returns so by your definition it's diminishing returns multiplicative damage reduction

[@SeuOu]

@@jonathanz9895 Well, if you think 56.25 and GREATER THAN 56.25 are "the same outcome," your problems exceed the help I have time to offer.

[@JanPapiezGaming]

best channel on d4 no cap

[@kevincroft3087]

What decides the order of the dr's

[@AB-wg1bu]

So basically focus on getting a couple of big DR sources is exponentially better than a multitiude of smaller ones. Cool stuff to know

[@conroconro]

So does this mean focusing on say, stacking a specific type of DR has slightly better gains than a spread of two if the numbers are similar?

[@da5id1an]

What order does it calculate in? this matters. does it choose chest first then pants then move on to other slots?

[@g3synth205]

It won't make a difference what order it's calculated in.

[@kthxbi1]

That's 100% diminishing returns that you just explained... The 1st 10% dr reduced the damage by 10 of 100 (10%), the next 20% dr only reduced the damage by 18 not 20, the next 15% dr only reduced damage by 10.8. This is diminishing returns. You can reduce the damage by 50% over and over and over and you get to a point where your 50% damage reduction is only reducing 5% damage instead of 50%.

[@kthxbi1]

ie: 100dmg -50% = 50, 50 - 50% = 25, 25 - 50% = 12.5, 12.5 - 50% = 6.25. In this example I have 4 sources of 50% DR, the 1st reduces 50% damage, the 4th source of 50%DR I have only reduces my damage taken by 6.25% That is a diminishing return... If I chose another 50% DR on gear I would only be reducing incoming damage by 3.12% At this point 100hp would be a better choice than 50% damage reduction, because its reduction has been diminished to 3.12%

[@Xarrio]

Try watching the 1st video in the series for an explanation to see why it is not diminishing returns.

[@kthxbi1]

​@@Xarrio I have watched. Diminishing return is still what's happening, there is also a benefit to keep stacking DR because of the exponential return as you call it. I think maybe both terms are wrong descriptions. What is the case though is that at some point there is a crossover where selecting life affix is a better choice than a DR affix, because it will give you more hits survivability. If there was no diminishing return on DR then the first 50% reduction would be as valuable as the 10th 50% reduction. But its not, at some point 1200 life is more valuable. I think we are both wrong and right here, we are probably quibbling over semantics. I just thought that saying it isnt diminishing will give the wrong idea to viewers. Thanks for the content and deep diving this stuff.

[@3N2sw]

Ive been trying to find a video explaining DR, and am glad I found this!. Thank you!

[@willian3333]

I just wanted to know one thing, where is the damage applied first, armor or magic resistance, or these damage reductions? because here the orders of the factors change the result, because if armor and resistance are calculated first the damage reduction is greater than if they are calculated last

[@Xarrio]

The order doesn't matter because they are all multiplicative. For example if you have 50% phys DR from armor and 10% DR from other sources... if you take 100 dmg, reduce that by 50%, get 50 dmg remaining, reduce that by 10%, get 45 dmg remaining. Now lets try the other order... you take 100 dmg, reduce by 10%, you now take 90 dmg, then reduce by 50%, now you take 45 dmg. Same result either way.

[@willian3333]

@@Xarrio oh Ty!!

[@davidorr5896]

Was just about to ask a question and you answered it in the last 15 seconds of your video. Ready for the next one!

[@rx0102]

he spittin' 🔥

[@AndrewH1994]

so here’s an easy way to do it. multiply all of the multipliers together the way you did. by doing 1- DMG reduction amount. so 10% damage reduction is 1-0.1=0.9. take that and do it with all sources of damage reduction, and multiply them together. after that, subract 1 from the result and ignore the fact that the value is negative. TADA! you have your damage reduction percentage! but it will be below 1, so if you want to know what it is as a full number out of 100, move the decimal point 2 places to the right.

[@Xarrio]

Yep. The formula to find effective DR % = 1 - (1-DR%)(1-DR%)(1-DR%)... I try to stay away from formulas as much as possible in these explanations b/c I'd rather people actually understand the math instead of just plugging things into a formula. Gets them a better intuition about what it is actually doing. If people want a formula, they can look it up easy.

[@manic7134]

Best D4 channel. Appreciate that you not only cover things very precisely, but that you are always covering things no one else has covered yet and filling a need (as opposed to some channels that nearly copy the current most hype thing to analyze). If I can't find D4 math on something random I care about, I can trust it is either already on the channel or will be here in a few days XD

[@dylankelley7335]

IDK man the games adds the reduction in the character panel and it adds them together with diminishing returns. So I go DR from burning 5.9% but the paragon nodes were DRB 4% DRB 2% so they were put together. its the same with the other like DR while injured stacks in the character panel as well with diminishing returns. the game doesn't show them all being added separately. Do you have a video showing how you got this with damage examples?

[@Xarrio]

Hi Dylan. Good question. The stat sheet simply gives you an equivalent DR stat for all of 1 type of DR combined. In your case, it is adding the 4% and the 2% DR multiplicatively, just as I did in the video to get the 5.9%. 100 - 100 (.96)(.98) = 5.92%. You could take all of these "equivalent DR" totals in your stat sheet and do the same type of multiplicative calculation to get your total DR.

[@D4Shahda]

Thanks for the math xar

[@Xarrio]

You bet

[@g6papabear650]

its great that you take the time to break down the math but i might be missing something....... using your formula my close dr should be about 38.4% and clicking on my stat sheet shows this. I also have 19.2 % all dmg reduction and 34.4% while injured with 6588 armor and 9487 health. close and injured dr are situation so how in the world do you figure out you total dr? especially on console where you can't click on armor stat to see its dr? new to diablo franchise here and a little confused

[@sneaky5141]

you dont, get fukt lol -blizzard '23

[@Xarrio]

Good question. So MOST DR is situational, so your total % DR is going to change depending on the situation that you are in. If you are close to an enemy, then you factor in your close % DR. If you aren't close, then you don't factor that in. Same thing w/ injured, only factor it in when below 35% health.

[@Hjortur95]

I couldn't explain why +Life is a good stat unless i called it a second bucket for DR. some people...

[@Xarrio]

My next vid is on life vs DR, so hopefully that'll help you explain it to others.

[@DarkWidget]

In essence there is both buckets and 'soft caps' still. What these 'buckets' refer to is that the percentage is additive rather than multiplicative just as your calculation shows. It's not 10+20+15+25=70% Total damage reduction but rather the percentages are, as you say, additive so each calculation is done separate leading to a total 54.17% effective DR rather than the 70% it looks like at first glance. And there in also lies the 'soft cap', since soft cap is referring to a set number where these percentages get diminishing returns, alto in D4 the set number is effectively everything after the first calculation. Making literally every number you add after the first one a new softcap. For example a 3% DR is alot more effective on its own rather than baked into one of these calculations therefor making it a 'soft cap' and a diminishing return by default for every part of DR you add. This is of course made so that you won't ever get 100% DR and become invincible. If you compare this to say critt damage which is a multiplicative calculation it effectively gives literally what it says, if you get an item with 20% critt dmg that's what you get in every scenario, if you have 100CD and add another 20 you get 120, simple. Same if you have 5000CD and add another 20 you get 5020% CD meaning there are no diminishing returns in the calculations since the calculation is made once. (however critt damage specifically will ALWAYS have 2 softcaps one being critt rate and the other being actual base damage calculated but that's a whole different calculation). So yes, soft caps and diminishing returns do exist but they're made in an additive way rather than a multiplicative which is what we are used to.

[@Xarrio]

So I encourage you to check out my previous video (link in the description) where I address this idea that people have of diminishing returns with DR. While I understand that as you add in more stacks of some amount of DR, the total DR % doesn't go up as much, how effective it is in making you survive does not decrease. It actually scales your characters survival exponentially. Check out this video for an example to see: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gn2rqoyidqeLqpI

[@DarkWidget]

@@Xarrio No I have watched it and I get your point, I'm just explaining where the notion of diminishing returns and soft caps come from. D4 seem to do their calculations differently than most other games previously. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just stating why the notion of DR and soft caps are not completely wrong either

[@k1ngjam3s67]

@@DarkWidget your explanation is correct.

[@k1ngjam3s67]

@@Xarrio The problem with your math is you described it by "hits till death" but you did it with unrealistic numbers. In truth if you took damage that would one shot you lets say 10k damage, you would have to have multiple instances of lets say 5% DR on multiple gear pieces before you ever crossed from 1-hit till death too 2-hits till death. The first instance would reduce damage by 500, but then only by 475 damage the next instance of 5%, and only 451.25 the next instance 5%, this referring to dismissing returns. lets say you have 3000 HP you wouldn't see a change. I still agree that stacking DR is worth it over many other stats in the game.

[@Ersb99]

Bro could u share any prototype to survive tier 100 , for example what armor minimal requirements we need, when playing rouge , barb or necro

[@googleplaynow9608]

Necro and rogue have a hard time because most of there DR comes from gear aspects, as opposed to barbarian druid that get a lot from their skill tree and skills. However, there is a barb thorns build that easily tanks NM dungeon 100s right now.

[@Eduardomscarvalho]

wouldn't all values of the same DR type(against close enemies, for instance) be added together and then go into the calculations?

[@Xarrio]

They wouldn't be added together in the sense of just adding. They would be multiplied together as shown in the video. Then, you could take that equivalent DR and put it into the calculation with the other sources of DR. Or you can put all sources of DR into the calculation individually. Either way, you get the same result.

[@pentapandamusic]

DR = OP

[@braxwhitney]

I need this breakdown with armor 🤤

[@normy6801]

thanks for your great explanation, gonna stack that dr then

[@thehatefull1761]

When I'm looking at the end game description it says there is a cap for damage reduction that it cannot exceed 85% of your current level also wouldn't the order in which the percentages are removed from the base damage matter tremendously like for example if you take 50% from 100 would be better than taking 20% from 100 and end up with 80 and then taking 50 from 80 is there a certain order of the game uses like bigger percentages first then smaller also what about armor does armor take off the amount of damage that you have armor first and then damage reduction or is that damage reduction first and then the armor takes off whats left or is the total amount of armor converted into percentage

[@Xarrio]

The 85% damage reduction cap is only for armor. You can get up to 85% physical DR from armor, but then you can get more DR from other sources on top of that. Also, order does not matter. 20% off of 100 is 80, then 50% off of 80 is 40. 50% off of 100 is 50. 20% off of 50 is 40. Same thing.

[@thehatefull1761]

@@Xarrio awesome thanks for clearing that up for me I think I got the proper setup now I'm around 9000 health with 8000 armour with about eight sources of DR. From what I can tell watching your videos this should be The sweet spot. I made this comment before watching the rest of your videos after watching all of the videos it makes sense to me now

[@Xarrio]

Keep in mind you will actually want higher armor than that b/c the mobs can be over level 100. 13700 armor is the cap for the highest mobs in the game in AoZ. 8000 armor is fine if you also have a high roll of disobedience on your amulet.@@thehatefull1761

[@thehatefull1761]

@@Xarrio yes I have a high disobedience I was just trying to get out of the one shot range. I'm only at level 77 but now I'm able to clear nightmare 50 without getting one shot I was running a glass Cannon bone spear I'm not quite doing as much damage but at least I'm not getting one shot clearing 50s was a crap shot now seems to be more consistent with the right affixes

[@thehatefull1761]

@@Xarrio bro I switched corpse explosion to blight and I found a chest and pants with damage reduction to shadow it is a game changer now and I'm still able to do 500,000 on my damage rotation w/Bone spear

[@xflashz]

What if i have like 60% close dr from pant, chest, and amulet, and damage reduction 20% is it 100-60%= 40 -20%=32?

[@Xarrio]

Are you getting 60% dr close by adding your 3 dr close stats together? If so, then no. You have to multiply each dr close stat individually as shown in the video. Otherwise, if the 60% is from multiplying those 3 stats together, then yes, you are correct.

[@xflashz]

@@Xarrio then armor would be the best benefit among these reduction

[@Xarrio]

What questions do you all have about damage reduction? I may put together a comment video answering comment questions if we have enough of them! Get specific!

[@edvaedan9161]

I made a separate comment but when is armor considered? Is that just converted to another DR %? I won’t ask about resists😂

[@JJ_Sun800]

Thanks for your videos mate, its great! A quick question about DR and Armor, which one should we choose if we have to, like Total Armor 10% or Damage Reduction 10%?

[@MrLebistus]

say we have DR% on all armors except legs. I found a maxroll total armor and maxroll DR to close leg, will this be better than a leg with low-mid roll DR and total armor?

[@syaman15191]

how to compare which is more effective when choosing an affix: 1. DR by increasing armor with the armor % or 2. Flat DR affix

[@DeathJr]

would be great if you could test barbarian challenging shout DR and if it's better to stack + ranks on it or get DR from other sources. CS seems to work different/better.

[@arketsjenkins5016]

Ppl going mental with these 🪣 theory. Call them by their terms like real mathematicians would do.

[@rasmuseriksson3398]

buckets buckets buckets 🤣

[@MrZmogutis696]

So Dr from close and Dr from distant or Dr from poisoned enemies are all the same ??? I dont think its right. And plus its in your video only 4 stats and you got to 54.1Dr so if i would do count on all of the gear all stats im pretty sure i would be immortal.

[@Xarrio]

Yes, they all act the same as long as the condition is met. And mobs do a lot of dmg. Take off some of your DR and you'll see you start to die real quick.

[@Sethmscott]

@@Xarrioaka there are buckets based on conditions 😆

[@johnnywong2583]

Is armor cap (85% damage reduction against lvl 154 mobs in NM 100) 13500ish or 14009?

[@Xarrio]

14000ish is what I've been told.

[@johnnywong2583]

@@Xarrio Thanks, I wish I can work out the amount of base armor required to achieve that number with 100 disobedience stacks from amulet or regular armor pieces respectively. But it seems that the armor gained from total armor % bonus is not magnified by disobedience.

[@devuu2952]

@@Xarriocan you do a video on how armor works with other forms of DR, as well? I’m pushing NM and it would be helpful to understand in a more granular manner than “big number good” which is how I currently operate!

[@oggaming7362]

Great video. Thank you!

[@Xarrio]

You are welcome!

[@stevenashford4174]

Great work thanks for the info. Do we know for sure this is how DR behaves? Also do we understand how armour and resists are factored into this equation?

[@Xarrio]

If you believe the tooltip, then yes that is how it behaves. Armor acts as 1 big DR stack and resists are useless, so ignore those.

[@Elias-nj6gi]

​@@XarrioThis question deserves some more attention imho. It's quite common that tooltips do not reflect the reality of what happens in game and how things are calculated. So some empirical evidence would be needed here, e.g. through testing. Great videos btw!

[@Xarrio]

@@Elias-nj6gi Thanks. For now, I just go based on the tooltip info for the most part unless I hear otherwise (there are a few cases I've heard about for damage things) or a few things that just simply don't show up on the sheet. But the stuff that is on the sheet is typically correct for the most part. Actually testing in game is a major pain to do b/c there is so much variance in everything from how hard you hit to how hard the enemies hit, etc. Def is possible, but would take a lot of data collection.

[@vincewills7475]

great and simple explanation. Nicely done!

[@Xarrio]

Thank you!

[@omada02]

great content, keep it going! I have one question, what is the armor cap? what armor I should have at least in order to push 60++ (+on top of that, aspect that gives you armor per hit) ?

[@Xarrio]

I believe it is around 14000 for T100 from what I've been told, but it is lower depending on the level of the mobs. And yes, I'd recommend getting disobedience aspect.

[@omada02]

@@Xarrio 14000 😮so far I have 8500 + aspect, I saw on your gear that you have similar amount, is it worth it stack armor on every armor?

[@omada02]

@@Xarrio also one more question, do I need dark shroud skill to get dmg reduction if I use aspect that gives me dark shroud if I crit with marksman?

[@Xarrio]

@@omada02 Yes, I get armor % on chest/legs/amulet.

[@Xarrio]

@@omada02 By need it do you mean need to put points into it? You don't have to put points into it, but it will give you more DR% if you do. I'd recommend at least using 3 points to get the movement speed or crit buff at the end of the dark shroud line. However, you do not need to put dark shroud on your skill bar to get it to work if you are using the aspect.

[@Pusetryne]

This would make the ig char sheet slightly misleading since it adds up all e.g. dr to close as one stat, which leads me to think that all dr to close is calculated once even with multiple sources but different types are calculated seperately.

[@Newton1221]

Yeah, if what Xarrio is saying is true then the character sheet is pretty much lying to you. I would be interested to see some actual testing done. Seems like there are diminishing returns if this is true. You basically want whatever sources have the biggest value in the fewest calculations. Otherwise you're lessening the effectiveness of whatever is calculated last.

[@tylerturner8070]

​@@Newton1221except there is no last

[@NanoNaps]

@@Newton1221 There is a misunderstanding here. The character sheet shows the multiplicative value of these "buckets" (e.g. having 3x 20% damage reduction from close will show up as 48.8% in character sheet) So since it is all just multiplication it doesn't matter whether you multiply the character sheet values or each single value itself The order also does not matter since in multiplication you can move each factor to any place, so you get the same DR result even if you randomly pick the order. Also note, there is no "the last calculated is less effective" If I have 9 DR sources that multiply to 75% DR and now I get a new gear piece that adds another 20% to it you now have 80% DR Sure that seems like you did not get your 20% since it only added 5% to the result but if we look at it from a dmg perspective 1000 incoming DMG without the 20% we take 250 DMG with the 20% we take 200 DMG 200 is 80% of 250 So if you would be one shot by an attack exactly for the amount of your health and you add an additional 50% DR you now survive the one shot with 50% HP no matter what your DR was before.

[@Newton1221]

@@NanoNaps Look at the difference between 20% DR and 5%+5%+5%+5% DR? Both are 20%, but not exactly. One looks like this. 1000 damage * (1 - 0.2) = 800 damage And the other looks like this. 1000 damage * (1 - 0.05)(1 - 0.05)(1 - 0.05)(1 - 0.05) = 814.5 damage One looks like 20% the other looks like 18.55% actual reduction. I get that the order doesn't matter because it's all multiplication. But each subsequent source is reducing the damage by a smaller amount because the total it's factored off of has been diminished. I mean more DR is still better obviously, but the more you stack the less you're getting from it. At a certain point someone would want to roll other affixes because they could be more helpful.

[@Newton1221]

@@tylerturner8070 I mean yes, the order doesn't matter, but the calculation is based off a smaller total for each subsequent source of DR. So at some point it's less effective based on the original total. I posted an example in this same comment chain comparing 20% DR vs 5+5+5+5% DR one turns 1000 damage into 800, the other turns 1000 damage into 814.5 damage.

[@user-wo9jj6ii6t]

great stuff yet again, I enjoy learning about the game to try to mix/max my gear. I prefer the mods that apply universally, like total armor, DR, life. Not a big fan of the close/distant/poisoned, etc types of mods

[@Xarrio]

Glad you like them!

[@neoteraflare]

This explains why Challenging shout's 48% DR (LVL5) is so strong for the barbarian

[@datmanbrooksiehd875]

My question is, how do you know the DR from the armor piece stats applies before the DR from the aspect? As in why wouldn’t the first step of the DR calculation be to do 100 dmg x 75% first ? (Accounting for the 25%dr aspect). Is there a set order as to which DR multipliers are factored into the equation ? (For example Chest piece DR stat always applies to equation before any DR on gloves or boots etc.)

[@sisuth]

Order doesn’t matter in this case, the end number always comes out the same in multiplication

[@MachiavelliD4]

This quite doesn't provide evidence this is how it works. It explains the math if its multiplicative, but doesn't evidence it

[@Xarrio]

You can check your stat sheet for evidence. For example, take 1 of your dr stats, and then multiply all of your diff dr multipliers for that 1 type of dr as shown in the video. You'll see the stat sheet matches for that stat.

[@tommyddurand]

@@Xarrio fascinating lol... i would never have guessed but you are right... two pieces of gear with 9.9% DR gives 18.8% DR instead of 19.8% which is exactly your math. definitely need that armor video, good shit i will sub

[@TheZaMuRaI3]

the game writes multiple times for some aspects or class passives that given a condition the "enemy deal xx% less damage", i consider this as a seperate bucket from "xx% damage reduction" as its quite common that outgoing damage and incomming damage are two seperate numbers and so "dealing less" is the first bucket on the outgoing damage from the enemy and "damage reduction" is the second bucket working on incomming damage which you are taking.

[@NanoNaps]

Does that change anything though? Lets say you have "enemies deal 20% less damage" and a 50% DR Enemy deals 1000dmg -> 800 dmg after 20% less now 50% DR kicks in -> 400dmg If both were DR sources we would come to the same conclusion.

[@NanoNaps]

@@TheZaMuRaI3 the calculation is 1000x(1-0.2)x(1-0.5) = 400 If you calculate 1-(1-0.2)*(1-0.5) = 0.6 or 60% which is your damage reduction not the damage you take

[@TheZaMuRaI3]

@@NanoNaps i guess you're right since 1-(1-0.5)*(1-0.2)=0.6 which is understood as 60% DR.. so that would essentially reduce 1000 down to 400 damage taken in the end making it the same.. didnt think of that xD

[@arketsjenkins5016]

Stop the bucket challenge thing. Those are called multipliers.

[@hopflopdopjuicy]

The buckets have been catapulted away