Dialogue Dive: Tywin vs Jaime- Dan and Dave's Best Writing

[@savagebooks7482]

Squish plop squish plop squish plop

[@kaleb749]

Nothing better than the sound of entrails and organs

[@haroldjohnson5368]

That sound is going haunt my dreams now

[@redddawggg]

Your videos are always so much fun! There’s a scene in matrix reloaded. When Merovingian is introduced. I think it is equally as compelling as Tywin here. Except it does give us one of the best quotes ever put to paper: “It’s like wiping your ass with silk and I love it.....” I would be forever grateful if you could make a video about this scene? 🖖🏾

[@basilumeh9085]

The squishers are near

[@tha_jet_king3537]

More of these please , Some of the best dialogues through out the show are from D&D and are not even in the books : Arya and Tywin, Cersei and Robert , the “chaos is a ladder scene” , Daenerys with Tyrion for the first time, Jon meeting Dany, Catelyn Stark talking about baby Jon and plenty more. More clips on D&D appreciation please. The “dumb and dumber” online bandwagon is getting tiresome, predictable, unfair and often hyperbolic Thanks for this one. P.s it still IS the most popular show in the world

[@jeromydoerksen2603]

Came into the show the same way he left it: loosening some bowels.

[@jamespiper6659]

fuck that's good

[@Afrimusican]

Oh you clever summbitch

[@TheDerrogative]

Yo underrared comment

[@BrisbaneBhoy]

👏👏👏😅 You got a genuine laugh and applause from me.... Top comment 😁

[@skrublordnord69]

"Go on, say something clever"

[@artoahremaa862]

Its also pretty cool that Tywin is disemboweling a stag since stag is the animal of house baratheon.

[@F1fan4eva]

Arto Ahremaa holy fuck...I didn't even think about that until now

[@OdiousLupous]

Hes also fishing in another dialogue scene, killing "trout" by bashing them against a "rock"

[@MrNotesofmusic]

That’s the nuance when those guys actually put effort in

[@jesperburns]

@@MrNotesofmusic Lets not forget GRRM was actually an active part of the screen writing team for the first 4 seasons. I highly doubt people as dumb as dumb and dumber figured the good stuff out by themselves.

[@voxorox]

@@jesperburns Well, even a broken clock can be right sometimes.

[@felipeson]

It’s actually really smart introduce Tywin in a scene with Jamie. If he were introduced in a conversation with Tyrion, the audience would immediately hate him for treating a favorite character cruelly. Seeing him treat Jamie, who until then was one of the most despicable characters in the show, makes you like him a little, even though you know you shouldn't.

[@AndreNitroX]

Not to mention Tywin dissecting that stag is oddly satisfying. It shows he’s not some pompous royal like his children but a man who gets things done himself, showing how superior he is to Jamie

[@mitchadmiral1210]

Pretty much, feels realistic. Love the greyness of the characters.

[@notaseal7864]

@@AndreNitroX you also see this in a deleted scene where he is catching baskets of trout. I'm fairly certain this was shortly before the red wedding where he killed a Tully and captured another. Also killed Rob who in a way is a Tully

[@AndreNitroX]

@@notaseal7864 we needed more tywin scenes

[@sit-insforsithis1568]

Wow that was exactly what this video says in the first few minutes. What a great find

[@randomasgray]

There is a few things about the stag that you didnt mention here that are important for Tywin's character. The fact he is gutting and skinning the stag himself reveals not only that he doesn't mind dirtying his hands but also shows how much of a micromanager he is. He has to be on control so much he can't even pass on the task of cleaning the stag to a trusted servant, because there isn't one he trusts. It shows his methodical nature as well as he is very careful in how he makes each cut and when he does certain actions like peeling back the skin or removing guts. It also foreshadows how the Lanasters will be dethroning the Baratheons as the stag is missing its antlers, its crown. And it foreshadows how they will piece by piece tear the kingdom that the Baratheons currently rule apart. The final aspect of the stag is that Tywin keeps his focus on it for most of the scene. He puroosefully does so to further put Jamie in his place. Tywin is subtly saying Jamie is beneath not just him but also this dead stag. It forces Jamie to compete for his attention and he can use it as a way punctuating his points. He timed when he was removing the guts. Normally they are removed after the hide or before the hide but Tywin does it mid way. He does it after he brings up, not Jamie, the topic about Ned Stark. He already was aware of what his son would say and wanted to make a point to his son. It is also the same reason he made the comment about saying something clever. He is fully aware of how his son thinks and behaves so uses that knowledge to get what he wants. It shows his hypocracy again and how he cares more about their family name than their actual family. Anyways just some things I noticed and wanted to share.

[@anderazkuna6698]

Very good analysis! Was thinking about it myself and was surprised it wasn't mentioned in this otherwise superb essay

[@natebrown4689]

I think he recognizes it but just focused on the dialogue alone.

[@SuperJaguary]

I mean the video was already 26 minutes long which is a lot for this channel, it would probably cross the 30 minutes threshold and might even go as high as 40 if he also discussed the actions in the scene. He did clarify that he's gonna focus on the dialogue specifically.

[@randomasgray]

He probably did notice and was why I said he didn't mention not he missed. The actions around the words in these kinds of scenes are as important to the dialogue as the words are. And is why he didn't just focus on the words in the video.

[@bboyhoyack]

What I got from this first time watching is that Tywin is resourceful and skilled in everyday tasks like skinning and gutting animals which could be perceived as beneath him. Couple with the dialogue it makes him look capable of doing anything from cleaning to leading an empire.

[@azursmile]

I always liked how Tywin recognised when it was preferable to work with the protagonists. Not only is he critical of attacking Ned Stark here, he sees sacking Barristan Selmy as a massive mistake: "And dismissing Selmy, where was the sense in that? Yes he was old, but the name of Barristan the Bold still has meaning in the realm." This elevates him beyond being a standard villain and contrasts to his sheer ruthlessness.

[@BlackXSunlight]

And he sends Tyrion to curb his grandson’s whimsies because he sees the execution of Ned Stark, their hostage, as incredibly stupid. Smart first, villain second.

[@rahulmenon9530]

@@BlackXSunlight That was really hard for him I think. He hates Tyrion the most in this world but he knows that Tyrion is cunning just like him and he's the only he can entrust right now to sustain Joffrey and Cersie and bring order

[@thegamer9302]

Most people forget that villians arent evil for the sake of it if written well they are fixated on achieving a goal no matter what

[@azursmile]

@@thegamer9302 absolutely this

[@bait5257]

@@rahulmenon9530 actually he does it because there was a very high possibility that Jamie would die because he was an hostage. So that makes tyrion the only living heir to castley rock, that's why he start acting good with him. Which only angers tyrion

[@robofistsrevenge3288]

Tywin was _such_ a breath of fresh air when he was introduced. We were so used to seeing the Lannisters as these larger-than-life types. Jaime was pompous and cocky, Cersei was a medieval Karen, Tyrion was this womanizing, alcoholic know-it-all, Joffrey was a sociopathic spoiled brat. And the very first time we see Tywin, he delivers his lines with this exhausted sigh of "Fuck, how many of your messes do I have to clean up today?" His presence was great and really grounded the rest of the Lannister family. It says something that the show's quality dipped _noticeably_ after he died haha.

[@adamweisshaup]

Great points. I also felt that the show took a massive nosedive when he departed the show. It felt like the last adult with gravitas who was a main character left now we just have pretty children babbling along.

[@matthewadkins7973]

Fr and he really gave the lannisters that sense of being a competent threat. Like Cersei and Jaime are both powerful crazy and dangerous but neither of them seem like they could lead a war like Ned and Robert. Tywins introduction was like oh shit this guy could take on Ned and Robert

[@watershipdowneyjr]

I think it's important to notice that Tywin refers to Jaime as being "blessed" in multiple ways. Even when he is pointing out his son's abilities and power, he doesn't really give credit to Jaime himself.

[@AndreNitroX]

Your right he’s almost stating that it’s because of him Jamie is so blessed

[@darth856]

Which is a bit sad. Jaime is probably the best swordsman in the seven kingdoms, and even if he is naturally gifted, it would require a lot of work and practise to become the best.

[@MalloryNewcomb]

I kind of looked at it as like “here’s the stuff you are born with and didn’t do anything to achieve. A lot of people would call this unearned privilege, so what are you going to do with the power you’ve already been given?” It’s kind of like what Royce and Littlefinger did when talking about Sweetrobin... that sometimes the right family name is all you need to get what you want. But yes that’s a great point that being a good swordsman is something that Tywin can’t credit himself for because Jaime as best as I understand developed his talent without Tywin’s aid.

[@Jack-kx5rf]

There was something like this in an anime I watched. There is a girl who is an expectational swordsman, she's talking to the protagonist about how everyone just says she's blessed but at the same time there are flashbacks of her training for hours every day.

[@nooduru2951]

@@Jack-kx5rf Bro I remember this scene from Re:Zero, the swordsman's name was Theresia van Astrea. She later married the guy after he got super motivated by her skills that he became a master swordsman himself. Good times.

[@CharlesZane_]

Tywin’s character is very much a result of his childhood. His father was weak and was openly mocked by people that were supposed to serve him. Whenever Tywin tried to correct the issue, his father would shut it down and make them look even worse. So when he became lord after his father, he immediately and ruthlessly established who was in control. It’s said that Tywin never laughs because he spent his childhood hearing everyone laugh at his father.

[@fort809]

That’s the best thing about GRRM’s work, even the most heartless, cruel and objectively evil characters have REASONS why they’re like that. Tywin had to grow up hearing the mocking of his house, The Mountain suffers from awful migraines almost constantly to the point that he has to chug Milk of the Poppey like water and hurt others to feel some sort of relief, the Mad King was unhinged BEFORE being betrayed. tortured and mocked for almost 6 months. Everyone has a reason to be evil, and it makes the world and characters feel real and grounded

[@paulsciria8921]

@@fort809 you mean they did t just attack kings landing you know because....reasons.

[@tigerlilly9038]

I think the Queen of Thorns. made him almost..laugh...in the show in one of their sparring conversations

[@emilybarclay8831]

He laughed when he was with his wife, but then Tyrion killed her. Which is why this man who values family over everything despises his son so much. He’s unable to comprehend that it wasn’t Tyrion’s fault because despite how it seems, Tywin is a man controlled by his emotions. Primarily pride, ego and cynicism

[@alexdinu589]

You know it's ironic; if tyrion wasn't a dwarf he would've been tywin's favourite child

[@eliasgrnnslett853]

I feel like its more about blaming Tyrion for the death of his wife more than the fact that he is a dwarf.

[@Martynqa1992]

​@@eliasgrnnslett853I feel like it's a mixture of both. It's purely speculative but I think had Tyrion not been born a dwarf, Joanna may have survived giving birth to him (as one of the characteristics of dwarfism is a disproportionately large head, in comparison to the rest of one's body). Who's to say it wasn't Tyrion's head that caused complications that may have resulted in his mother's death?

[@WyvernX_]

If Tyrion wasn't a dwarf he would have been an entirely different person, his "disability" and upbringing are what made him rely so much on his wit and cunning to survive

[@77777Spooky]

I am convinced that Dave and Dan's failures were NOT from a lack of competence, they just stopped giving a shit. That's worse.

[@CaptainPikeachu]

What they had was a burnout. They took on something they could not sustain.

[@fatfrankthepeteacher2503]

I think they were incompetent. They wouldn’t have stopped giving a shit when they took over after season 4, but it got worse. And they were trying

[@vijaz5559]

i just think they were shit at writing original story

[@surfacepro3328]

I think both, you can clearly see the difference between pre s4 (book adaption) post s4 (D&Ds story), but they also didnt really try and finished the show way too fast

[@EL-ISS]

@@surfacepro3328 they also refused to pass the show on to another show runner even after both HBO and GRRM said theyd allow it. They just wanted the clout for saying: "we're the GoT guys" and no one else. Know how bad it would look on them to have such shit seasons then pass it on only for the show to get better ? It'd be even more proof of how bad they are at screenwriting.

[@mughwortslongshot4545]

I love how after watching this scene I could immediately conclude that though Tywin, Tyrion, and Cersei all hate one another the one thing they have in common is the fact that they love Jaime, all for different reasons.

[@cadr003]

The fact that Tywin has his back faced when speaking to Jamie throughout most of the dialogue.

[@AndreNitroX]

Like he said that stag had more of his attention than his own son

[@jacob_90s]

@@AndreNitroX true, but it also a show of confidence. Here he is mocking and condescending an objectively dangerous person who is currently armed and armored... and he turns his back to him.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@jacob_90s God i love tywin, he is just such a compelling character, every move he makes has so much depth.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@jacob_90s not to mention Jamie is most famous for stabbing his superior in the back

[@Wanderer25]

Jamie was his father's "favorite" and he knew it. I think Jamie took the knights guard partly because he knew he couldn't live up to his father's legacy.

[@OvertheHedge06]

Tywin just dominates every scene he's in. He's so threatening and menacing in every way possible. Charles Dance was snubbed an Emmy. For real.

[@klarathebat5619]

Charles Dance himself has a very charismatic character. He's also Emhyr var Emreis' VA (in witcher 3) and he just like Tywin is cunning and memorable

[@Tenpouin]

wow I can't believe I played through W3 entire game and missed Dance's iconic voice

[@Tamburo52]

Wow I never noticed that

[@lucasimmons075]

Nothing beats his performance in Ali G in Da House. Truly oscar-worthy

[@whensomethingcriesagain]

Tywin's hypocrisy isn't his fatal flaw, his cruelty is, especially his hatred of Tyrion. I always saw Tywin sleeping with Shae as less to do with anything about her, and more about knowing it would hurt Tyrion the most out of anything he could do. Even if you don't see it that way, Tywin's crude dismissal of her in full knowledge that Tyrion was enraged by it was what really pushed him over the edge. Though of course the novels did this better with the reincorporation of Tywin's utter cruelty toward Tysha, an innocent third party whose only crime was sincerely loving Tyrion, and I suppose you could argue this is hypocrisy on his part as well, since he does his best to seem above it all when he's more than willing to most likely scar an innocent girl for life just because he knows it's the one thing that would hurt his son the most. And when Tyrion realizes this, that's what drives him to go kill Tywin

[@BlackXSunlight]

It’s a parallel to his treatment of Tyrion’s wife, having their marriage annulled posthaste and then whoring her out to his guards. By sleeping with Shae, he’s demonstrating how inconsequential he views the things and people Tyrion cherishes, and seeing his father “win” again, is what sets Tyrion over the edge, prompting him to take the long way around to escape so he can kill Tywin along the way.

[@whensomethingcriesagain]

@@BlackXSunlight Though of course in the show that's never brought up, because the idiot writers decided to cut the part where Jaime reveals the truth of what happened

[@BlackXSunlight]

Sam Geuvenen I could’ve sworn it’s mentioned in season 2. I remembered it before reading it in the book, so I don’t know where that knowledge might’ve come from.

[@fort809]

@@BlackXSunlight the original story is mentioned in season 2, but the most important part of the Tysha story is Tyrion learning the truth from Jaime and that being the catalyst to kill his father. D&D cut his most important motivation for his most important action in the series

[@thecrimsondragon9744]

Tywin's ideal son would be Tyrion's mind in Jaime's body. Interesting also that Tywin almost seems to like (or at least acknowledges) 2 of the Stark kids: Arya and Robb.

[@brianlowe904]

Littlefinger and Varys don’t have many “onscreen” moments in the book and only one conversation so it’d be cool to hear your opinion on the show only exchanges on the show

[@pipitameruje]

"Chaos is a ladder"

[@someromaboo]

Ah the glory days

[@adrianthegreat8190]

Agreed

[@joaogabrielmatsudaverdi4070]

Gods, they were strong then

[@HxH2011DRA]

@@joaogabrielmatsudaverdi4070 Lol

[@leadvendor]

I love how Dance and Coster-Waldau play off of each other in the scene with this dialogue. Jaime reverts back to a child when in the physical presence of his father, with or without his blade, his armor and his acerbic wit.

[@LilPeachling]

This is a bit of an aside, it's really interesting to compare this conversation to the later scenes Tywin has with Arya (also D&D originals). He has the same traits as mentioned but it's shown through his interactions with his generals. When speaking to Arya, a nobody, who he only perceives as "girl" (even a girl with a conflicted backstory) he approaches the situation less as a domineering force and more as a mentor. When Arya falls short in their verbal sparing Tywin corrects her mistakes and they become learning opportunities, rather than simply ways to make her inferior. I always found their conversations very interesting, they gave Tywins character more depth. I can imagine him being that way with Jamie and Cercei when they were younger, before they became his abject disappointments. Of course it's easier to gain someone's approval when they have no expectations of you what so ever. But none the less, I always liked the more subtle parental aspect of Tywins character.

[@AW-uv3cb]

same! I liked Tywin for his attitude to Arya. That and the fact that in his first scene he's getting his own hands dirty made me think that he's all about efficiency and discipline. Even when he's cruel, there's usually a point he wants to make through his cruelty. He's not wantonly cruel and cartoonishly evil, going around and taking kids' lollipops. He does most things for a goal, and that makes him reliable in the sense that he's not going to screw you over just for the heck of it (unlike, say, Joffrey, with whom you never know what might happen). He's still a terrible person, of course, but these traits give him more depth, and I always have a bit of a soft spot for characters like that.

[@lwazinkasawe3887]

I love how he's first introduced butchering an animal by himself, pretty much showing he isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

[@acediadekay3793]

Not just any animal Baratheons, the symbol of the Baratheons.

[@AndreNitroX]

I love that. His intro shows he’s not a lazy pompous royal like every other main character we had met so far. He’s a man who gets things done himself and displays dominance over all. A true Lion

[@4dragons632]

Always hungry for more Tywin. I remember being genuinely excited when, within 10 words of his dialogue, I knew exactly who Jamie was speaking with. I was so confident they were going to write him well (and for the most part they surely did)

[@phelanii4444]

Great work, as always! I was hoping you might analyze some of lady Olenna's most famous burns, in light of Diana Rigg's recent passing. She was a true legend and embodied that character perfectly.

[@suckit1335]

If he does this, he should do Olenna’s death. That scene was so fucking badass, what a queen

[@phelanii4444]

@@suckit1335 indeed, it's one of the best scenes in the latter half of the show. I was sad she had to go, but at least she went out like a queen.

[@emilybarclay8831]

Had them by the balls until the moment she died

[@ljb8157]

"I could care less what people think of me" Ugh! Such a pet peeve of mine! I COULD care less means you care. I COULDN'T care less is what he should have said.

[@basicrat3004]

SAME

[@dorsia6938]

I have no idea how this simple error has become so widespread.

[@ljb8157]

@@dorsia6938 it's so annoying to me!

[@epiendless1128]

It took me completely out of the scene. Even if you accept the idiom, it has no place outside contemporary dialogue.

[@constanzelade]

SAME it's like when adults say "ValentiMe's" instead of Valentines

[@bencraig9479]

I love how in every video including Tywin always has the sentence “Now we see that Tywin has full control of the conversation”.

[@carlsecundus1966]

Also notice when Jamie says "Arrive within a fortnight or be branded an ENEMY OF THE CROWN" Tywin stays unflinching

[@rayruckus4446]

Listening to your breakdown and how you dissect this dialogue in particular just earned you a subscription. I am very excited to see what else you have. Addendum: My favorite part of the scene is that the actor playing tyron is actually skinning a dear pie That's dedication to your craft.

[@shinyary2]

You're in for a treat. Love this channel. His videos on Bojack Horseman are particularly insightful imo.

[@rayruckus4446]

@@shinyary2 believe it or not I've never actually watched BoJack Horseman. I know I know apparently it's the greatest thing that's ever existed in history of mankind but I just haven't seen it yet LOL.

[@Durandurandal]

"Explain to me why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen at dinner" See to me, that line doesn't just highlight his lack of honor, but his understanding how how farcical that system is. The former is only defensible from a romantic point of view, not from his cold/efficient one, or a general humanist one. This of course is one more thing for him to exploit, since he understands his power exists because it has been built and maintained, and that he has to continue that, rather than his power existing by dint of being a Lannister (which circles back to his interest in resolving Tyrion's imprisonment, as it continually weakens the House's, and so his, power).

[@scottgrey3337]

Tywin: *Says another* Savage Books: "Let me explain to you why this is perfect." (Just for the record, I wholeheartedly agree)

[@stevend2207]

I just wanted to point out that "siring secret bastards that his king has to raise" is my favorite dialogue of 2020.

[@melthebookdragon8863]

The moment of dialogue I always go back to during the early days of GoT is the one between Cerci and Robert when they talk about their marriage and the death Robert's betrothed. In GtO there never seems to be enough conversations of equals especially between men and women. But then you saw a glimpse of what could have been the King and Queen's working relationship and it was fragile but toxic but neither was afraid to say what they really wanted to.

[@bobbyb2749]

This scene is adapted from the books. There is a similar scene when Sam is discribing his father, telling him to join the Night's Watch. Randyll Tarly is skinning a deer while he explains what will happen to Sam if he doesn't go to the wall willingly. "Three men-at-arms had escorted him into a wood near Horn Hill, where his father was skinning a deer. “You are almost a man grown now, and my heir,” Lord Randyll Tarly had told his eldest son, his long knife laying bare the carcass as he spoke. “You have given me no cause to disown you, but neither will I allow you to inherit the land and title that should be Dickon’s. Heartsbane must go to a man strong enough to wield her, and you are not worthy to touch her hilt. So I have decided that you shall this day announce that you wish to take the black. You will forsake all claim to your brother’s inheritance and start north before evenfall." “If you do not, then on the morrow we shall have a hunt, and somewhere in these woods your horse will stumble, and you will be thrown from the saddle to die… or so I will tell your mother. She has a woman’s heart and finds it in her to cherish even you, and I have no wish to cause her pain. Please do not imagine that it will truly be that easy, should you think to defy me. Nothing would please me more than to hunt you down like the pig you are.” His arms were red to the elbow as he laid the skinning knife aside. “So. There is your choice. The Night’s Watch”-he reached inside the deer, ripped out its heart, and held it in his fist, red and dripping- “or this.”

[@gfilmer7150]

To me, that foreshadows what Randyll did in the books, convincing Renly to kill Stannis, thus gutting House Baratheon and later joining Tywin and The Tyrells at The Battle of Blackwater. Also, I heard a theory he might join Aegon a.k.a. Young Griff so I guess you can consider that as him siding against Stannis again.

[@MalloryNewcomb]

That is absolutely terrifying.

[@s.k.1082]

Besides the butchering of the stag, there are basically no things these two scenes have in common.

[@FloraJoannaK]

I like how Tywin is getting his hands dirty in the scene. He isn't afraid to hunt/kill, or clean the carcasses, politics or otherwise. Also, the first lines from Tywin? Excellent introduction.

[@pticu1]

RIP Tywin- I almost forgot how great of the character he was. The best part of the show died with him

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

Agreed

[@TheMightyPika]

Pretty much. You can stop watching the show after his death and you're down for a great show with a legit ending.

[@AndreNitroX]

Agreed

[@DamienHanma]

That's actually a pretty good point. Tyrion goes off across the sea, as he and Shay were planning, and varys goes with him, back to the land he was born in. Daenerys continues her battle to end slavery in Merene and rules there. Making that her kingdom and slavers her "wheel to break " I'd have to rewatch season 4 to see where the others leave off, but so far so good for an ending.

[@Rosie-yt8nd]

This to me looks like George's handwriting and his skill as a screen writer. The first 4 Seasons when GRRM was still involved where the best, and then it started dwindling. While 5 and 6 was not as fantastic but still good, D&D were fumling for straws when in 7 and 8 they actually had to tie stuff together. In my opinion they tried to imitate what George did, but superficially. They didn't understand the depth and layers of this. That it serves more than just the scene and immediate circumstances. This is why the last seasons are missing in substance and look like a bad copy covered in shiny effects that essentially mean nothing tho

[@everhall306]

No actually, this was D&D. Though you are right that they could have possibly had some advice, GRRM wrote the episode after this one.

[@jesperburns]

@@everhall306 GRRM was involved in all episodes up to halfway through season 4. Just because he isn't listed as the main writer doesn't mean he didn't sit in on the writing sessions (and we know he did). There's literally no way people as untalented as D&D came up with this stuff, Martin's mark is all over this.

[@kayhaych05]

That’s what I was thinking. I know for a fact GRRM was heavily involved in the writing during the earlier seasons. There isn’t a doubt in my mind this scene was written by him

[@felipeson]

season 6 could have easily been the best one cause the two last episodes were phenomenal (I personally think Winds Of Winter is the best GoT ep) but there’s one or two things that don’t manage well but still an awesome season. S5 was good but the plot holes were even bigger

[@bitzibaerlie]

Also, sometimes scenes shift from one episode to another. Maybe this was one of the scenes Martin wrote for next episode and it got preponed (or whatever the opposite of "postponed" is). But even though the first four seasons were the best, later seasons without Martin's involvement had great scenes and dialogue as well. My main gripe was with how they handled character arcs and how many potentially great scenes got skipped due to time constraints (quick travel and the like).

[@jedediahcoulbourne1791]

While I have no intentions to write, your content helps me appreciate scenes and as a side bonus you're making my table top characters even better.

[@dayofayanju9021]

7:28 This also highlights why Cersei(and Show!Euron) as the final functional antagonist after S6E10 didn't work. Everything that had happened in the series to that point had put her in a position to be dangerous as a result of malicious desperation, eating into time all life in the world does not have. Instead, the showrunners chose to magically bend the scales of the universe and ignore all of the previous developments in order to make a "war" happen. As a result, the conflict based around such ridiculous retcons was absurd and unbelievable

[@avalon5957]

When Tywin scoffs at Jamie as Jaimie says that the kill wouldn't have been clean, I always understood it as it was Tywin's way of saying "So your so called 'code' prevented you from killing a wounded man simply because *you* weren't the one that injured him so it wouldn't have been 'clean,' but it didn't prevent you from attacking THE *Hand* of the *King* in public and broad daylight for everyone to see? --You completely incompetent imbecil." without actually saying it.

[@malikevans634]

I swear, if I hear guts splatter one more time...

[@moki4895]

Malik Evans i understand that feeling now

[@Vario69]

Don't act like fools SPLOSH Don't act like fools SPLOSH Don't act like fools SPLOSH

[@malikevans634]

@@Vario69 Yes. Exactly that.

[@tenhayz1889]

I am not sure this was written by D&D. I heard several times that GRRM was heavily involved in the early seasons of the show so he might have written all the good stuff that is not in the book. It makes no sense that D&D used to be very good at writing and suddenly lost their brain cells to write the last seasons

[@ajd1527]

Tenhayz could just be burnout. They worked on the show for a long time

[@HxH2011DRA]

Idk I've seen many creatives who use to be great let shit get to their heads & ruin their craft. Maybe fame or something else who knows

[@Drahko12]

I know right specially from the guys that wrote that wolverine abomination of a movie with that Deadpool

[@logancox6548]

Just because someone writes something good isn't a guarantee that everything they write is going to be good. Stephen King is one of the most famous writers ever, but I doubt if there's anyone who thinks that everything he's written has been good. D&D clearly had a lot of passion for the work during the first four seasons, but they started half-assing the writing part as they got closer to the endgame and just started relying more and more on giant action set-pieces enhanced by CGI.

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

Pretty sure George wrote this

[@TB-my4cu]

Great video and analysis as always, but, I have t take issue with two parts...1.) Tywin does somewhat care about Tyrion. He claims NOT to, and clearly resents him being a dwarf, but, Tywin is, in the books, presented mostly from Tyrion's POV, and Tyrion is an unreliable narrator in that he resents his father. Tywin always gives Tyrion opportunities that he squanders, and when Tywin is unimpressed or critical, Tyrion perceives it as unfair and rooted in resentment. In Clash of Kings, Tywin is clearly trying very hard to motivate Tyrion, and treats him no differently than he does Jaime or Cersei (as we see from their pov's). Additionally, Tywin resents Tyrion more for being a drunk, whoring, acting entitled and sarcastic/combative, as well as being taken advantage of marrying Tasha (from Tywin's perspective), but Tyrion mistakes it for hating him for his dwarfism. 2.) As to the hypocrisy regarding Tywin, especially bedding Shae, there's lots of subtle evidence Tywin DIDN'T bed her, and Varys framed the scene to take advantage of Tyrion's wroth to assassinate the central figure standing in the way of his (Varys') Aegon invasion. We know Shae worked for Varys, we know Varys "accidentally" showed Tyrion the stairs at the base of the Tower of the Hand, we know he led him there, and we know Varys was the one who implied Tywin used to use tunnels for whores. We all but know Tywin was poisoned by Oberyn, and Tyrion says when he found Tywin in the privy he'd been there for some time...given that, he was in no physical position to be having sex with Shae. His resentment and disgust for whores seems genuine (based on his father's example, which is the catharsis for his Lannister house pride hangup), and even IF he was actually hypocritical enough to utilize whores, he wouldn't want Tyrion's sloppy seconds. Further, in the chapter scene, he (Tywin) makes no mention of her, which may just be him deeming her trivial and beneath him, but may also imply he had no idea. Tywin may have been a hypocrite, but imo it's just as likely he was set up (in the books).

[@moonlight.z6543]

I also find it comically hilarious that Jaime, being who he is, is standing there, armored and armed with a glinting sword, and there stands Tywin, in a shirt and leather vest, holding a simple knife, and yet he stands dominant in the scene, not only by words, but by action. He is disemboweling a deer in such a showcase of violence in comparison to a king's guard that the audience is drawn to the act of Tywin cutting open a dead animal rather than the fact that there stands a warrior in the very same room.

[@RomanBaker23]

It may be worth noting that Tywin gutting the stag is a literal representation and foreshadowing for what the Lannister's do to house Baratheon. They killed the stag (Robert) They gutted it; When Renly died they took the Lion's Share of his forces. And assuming they kept the fur they could wear it. Disguising Joffery as a Baratheon. I might be over analyzing here, but there seems like there's a lot of symbolism on the table here.

[@AndreNitroX]

Good analysis. Also there’s something so satisfying about Tywin skinning the stag himself. It shows he’s a man that likes to do things himself not some pompous royal. It also demonstrates how much more energy and power he possess even more than the king

[@RomanBaker23]

@@AndreNitroX there is something bad ass about a Lord who cleans his own kill (I would assume Tywin killed the stag). It also demonstrates that he's a practical man. He knows how to do shit for himself.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@RomanBaker23 thats what i said

[@RomanBaker23]

@@AndreNitroX ye

[@BlackXSunlight]

I would love to hear someone dissect the literal and metaphorical relationship between Tywin Lannister and Gregor Clegane. Just reread AGoT and one scene, where the Mountain suggests tearing out their scouts’ eyes for missing an invading force and handing them to their replacements so that “two pairs of eyes might serve them better than one,” Tywin glares in what Tyrion interprets as either disapproval, or satisfaction-he can’t tell. I’ve been wondering what use such a violent, and dangerous psychopath might be to a smart and cautious man who likes to be in control. And it occurred to me that the Mountain is proudly on the outside what Tywin is secretly on the inside: cruel. He keeps that monster on a leash somehow, and unconsciously, maybe he sees it as leashing his own carnal compulsions?

[@Scitscat111]

This is my favorite scene in the entire series. I'm so glad you finally did this! I have something to look forward to after work. Thank you!!!

[@benl2140]

21:00 "...so that the audience can understand their motivation and endgame." I c wut u did there.

[@Dahalx]

Not to mention Twyin is butchering a stag. The symbol of house baratheon. Subtext being how he will kill butcher and consume that house to get what he wants.

[@sumanoskae]

I can't help but notice the amusing symmetry between Tywin pulling out the stag's intestines and the way he himself died.

[@SigmaWik6]

Brilliant dissection! I loved it. Two things I noticed myself upon a rewatch: Tywin starts his conversation for Jamie with a non-sequiter. Jamie is commenting on Ned's actions, seeking his father's support...and Tywin responds with a side-step. He never passes judgement on Ned or reaffirms Jamie's opinion of Ned because that is what Jamie clearly wants. So Tywin ignores his opinion and sidesteps his expectations at every turn. He is control and his relationship with his son is toxic and flawed...and it's all shown from his first sentence and how it doesn't connect to Jamie's. Secondly, when Tywin does 'compliment' Jamie, notice the things he compliments are beyond Jamie's control: his house and his youth. It reaffirms that Jamie is just an asset to him, not a person. Fantastic writing...just a shame it all went downhill.

[@morrischma9565]

D&D did a fine/great job when they were adapting and writing the occasional scenes. You just have to look at the Varys/Baelish, Joffery/Margaery, Tywin/Arya or Olenna scenes to see that. I just think that when they were writing the whole show they had no skeleton which they could add to and they also didn't have the time they needed so the writing suffered.

[@ginge641]

They had all the time in the bloody world to finish the show.

[@morrischma9565]

@@ginge641 They had as many seasons as they wanted, I still hate them for trying to finish in 8 but they still had to write each season within the year for HBO.

[@ginge641]

@@morrischma9565 A year? Such little time!

[@morrischma9565]

@@ginge641 A year to write, do pre production, shoot, edit and do FX. And if you are saying a year is a long time you must not be familiar with the author's time management.

[@Himolino]

@@ginge641 they did in one year what the original author couldn't do in nine.

[@jwtubification]

Not a screenwriter. I love your videos as a songwriter because they are great at helping me distill ideas. Structure, themes, subtext. It’s all the stuff you’re always hammering on. I write instrumentals and your examinations of dialogue are spot on for writing and editing my own non-verbal work. So, thank you!

[@Var_ar_Vargen]

"Are you going to say sonething clever? Go on, say something clever." - a rare case of good non-GRRM writing in the show.

[@AndreNitroX]

This is one of my top favorite GOT moments. Ever since you started your analysis on Tywins conversations I’ve been praying that you would do this one, and you achieved perfection. Thank you please continue to do more Tywin moments please, he is the best character in the whole show

[@JahGuarrr]

16:45 because those men agreed to fight there.

[@Jack-kx5rf]

I think there is another key part of Tywin's character, hypocrisy. He gets enraged at Cersei for committing incest but he was married to his first cousin. He ridicules Tyrion for sleeping with prostitutes while he does the same. Had his daughter-in-law gang-raped by 100 men, if word ever got out about that it would have affected the Lannister name much more than Tyrion getting married to her. Forced his daughter into 2 unwanted marriages for political power but refused to do the same. He ridicules Jaime for caring about what others think about him but Tywin cares about what people think about the Lannisters.

[@vitoriadias7990]

>> 19:23

[@tengotenma]

@@vitoriadias7990 wincest?

[@MarushiaDark316]

This scene was always one of my favorites and Tywin one of my favorite characters. In nearly every scene, there's always the environmental subtext as well - in this case gutting a stag while talking about gutting House Baratheon whose sigil is a stag. Later, he's catching trout by the river while talking about how to catch house Tulley, whose sigil is a river trout. In the scene with Jeoffrey, he walks up stairs while talking about the king having to walk up stairs ... it's just soooo good.

[@SuperJaguary]

One of your finest videos, I just LOVE how deeply you dived into Tywin's first two sentences Goes to show how much can be done with clever writing! Thank you for the content :)

[@ladscrimpton8590]

Your videos are awesome, man. You articulate what we're all unable to. I was never able to articulate why certain parts of the show are great while other parts suck, it was all just based on feelings that I couldn't really explain. I didn't know why I liked some scenes more than others. I think you put words to it all very well.

[@timsexton]

Thanks for your insights & verbalizing what I scarcely grasped as I watched these scenes. *_TRUST !!_*

[@Morfe02]

Your forgot about deer (Baratheon) and the guts (hands dirty) but also he sharpens his knife like he sharpens his WORDS before talking with Jaime, he never looks at him until he say something "high" to take control and he does not destroy the deer he takes the fur between quick and slow, the most efficient way as Tywin thinks

[@GLBlake_]

Thank you, man. This video was great. I'm writing a historical novel at the moment and you've really helped me in a scene that I was struggling with.

[@souvennir9751]

Your channel is so damn good. Originally came for the Bojack videos, stayed for everything else.

[@vanessarohrer2747]

As someone who also adores both words and Tywin, I really enjoyed this and you've gained a subscriber. Please keep doing what you're doing!

[@Fray2221]

Those characters who were slaughtered in the first 6 seasons were the lucky ones.

[@tessacarstairs5998]

I’m a simple girl. I see savage book uploads, I click

[@justanotherredheadattheend955]

It’s because Tywin has the strongest daddy energy, and we all need that right now. You keep putting out these half-hour videos, we’ll keep watching them 👏

[@MisakiZora]

This is indeed an excellent scene. In a matter of seconds we get a strong sense of who Tywin is like, as a person and as a father, and the relationship between Jamie and him. I want to know what you think of the "Orson the Beetleslayer" scene.

[@roadlifeproductions4905]

I love your analysis, but there is a subtle detail about this scene you either missed or skipped. Jamie’s first few lines reading to the summons to Tywin, he stammers a bit. It can easily go unnoticed on a first or second watch, but it implies Jamie having a little trouble reading. In season 2, it’s revealed that Tywin taught Jamie to read, and he struggled to learn. This is significant because in season 2, Tywin says, “He hates me for it, but he learned.” This scene is essentially the same thing. Tywin knows Jamie will hate him for pushing him, but he’ll learn.

[@Xenatia]

I really love these dialogue dives! The longer the better. Keep it up!

[@TheAxeliono]

I’m sorry but all I’m paying attention to is the splashing sound of guts when he says “Lannister’s don’t act like fools”

[@greatkhan7278]

23:02 i was never sure how he could lay any of that blame on Jamie. Aerys forced Jamie into the Kingsguard, and Robert never released him. Tywin was in the best position for both Kings to negotiate Jamies release from his oath, and failed. Jamie wasnt in any better position to do anything about it than Tywin was. I thought that was unfair.

[@jf_kein_k8590]

Interesting, if late, fun fact, the first book actually had a (flashback) scene between father and son where the father is taking apart a stag. Namely between Samwell Tarly and his father Lord Randyll Tarly of Hornhill, where Randyll tells his son to either join the Night's Watch so that his little brother can become heir, or he and Samwell will go the next day on a hunting trip, where sadly Sams horse will stumble, fall over and Kill Sam in the process. That at least will be what Randyll is gonna tell his wife. Randyll accentuates his threat at the end by ripping the stags heart out, holding it towards Samwell.

[@bahaanaldo]

I adore Tywin's character and Charles Dance. I also liked his work on the Witcher 3 as the Emperor. His vocal clarity and tenor make for incredible dialogue in my opinion.

[@AW-uv3cb]

Charles Dance could read a phone book and it would still be intimidating.

[@77777Spooky]

I will watch your videos and watch them 100 times each and smash the like button everytime if you only do dialogue dives from great stories like this.

[@Chamsiee]

I'm sooo thrilled to watch your video. I've been obsessed with this scene which is one of my favourites of GOT. And something that I found very well thought out is that Tywin does not need to strip an animal. He comes from one of the most respected houses, especially at this time, so this task should have been given to a person with a lower status. However, they decided to show him in this manner, which is an excellent way to make us understand his character. I found the scene full of subliminal messages. It seems like he is constantly using his son to be at his standard which makes us automatically understand that he is dominant. The actors are so good in this shot. You have a new subscriber here 👌🏾

[@AG-vk5or]

More Dialogue Dive videos please! I absolutely love this.

[@leviathongt]

This is good writing, but made better by Charles Dance and his delivery. So underrated.

[@labangrankvist2993]

Not sure he's underrated. Every person and their grandma speak about how great he is online.

[@ukudeyvwena]

Aww shit! I been waiting for this one. Thnx homie @SavageBooks

[@commanderdanielcousland9981]

Half of this scene was taken and inspired from sam's back story regarding how he ended up on the wall.

[@fort809]

Not really? The only real similarities are that a father is butchering a stag while talking to his son. In Sam’s case his father was threatening him and humiliating him, and using the stag as an extension of the threat. in Jaime’s case his father was chastising him for being a dumbass, and butchering the stag was metaphor, foreshadowing and character setup on the writer’s part. That’s not inspired from Sam at all

[@sonny8686]

Back when D&D actually cared about the show

[@khonhlo1476]

Were they short sighted? They thought it would have been better to finish this show as fast as they could while cashing in on the popularity without any consequences? Because from what I can tell, this show pretty much destroyed their reputation. Hollywood are not very forgiven of failed writers and directors. A good example was the director of the movie " Stealth." An almost $100 mil failed box office that he could no longer work in Hollywood and end up making small indie films.

[@emuman9]

honestly remembering just hurts so much

[@user-cg2ek7dc8q]

@@khonhlo1476 lets not also forget one of them directed/wrote that Wolverine movie, with that disgusting deadpool.

[@khonhlo1476]

At least this will be the greatest lesson to all creators and directors of extremely popular shows to never underestimate the influence of fans because they could destroy your careers. Sure D&D made millions but their name is forever tarnished by Game of Thrones.

[@HiepNguyen-hw2hq]

@@khonhlo1476 they rushed to end it in order to start on a newly commissioned star wars project but ended up getting rejected by disney after the ss8 debacle

[@erockjones]

You have so many views because your content is excellent. The time, thought and effort you put into each video shows. You have worked hard and earned every one of them. 😉

[@maytyrrell5387]

Wow! I've seen a few of your Game of Thrones dialogue vids and my interest has only grown. Thanks for sharing. 🌟

[@therwbyfamilton8023]

Can you please do a video on ALL of Arya and Tywin’s interactions at Harenhall

[@apollion888]

We live in similar worlds, I adore this scene and your She Forgot clip got you an instant thumbs up

[@sportsnewz5608]

Every iconic villain has a back story introduced to understand his motivation and end game

[@elkevermeulen7343]

On a personal level, Oberyn was my favourite character; but on a how well the characters were written, Tywinn and Ollena were my favourites

[@SENATORPAIN1]

My favorite line of this convo which is a good one is just Jamie saying it wouldn't have been clean.i like that line

[@chibiktsn3]

Such a great dialogue dive!

[@federov100]

Charles Dance needs to portray Grand Moff Tarkin.

[@creativeconsciousness7392]

One of my favourite aspects of the song of ice and fire/game of thrones was the way GRRM used the animal sigils of the houses and symbols of the characters to explicate and foreshadow the developments of the entire narratives in emblematic tableaux - eg Tywin skinning the stag (methodically dismantling Robert's empire) seen here; the direwolf pups (Stark children) released from their mother (Eddard) as a result of her death from a stag (Joffrey); King Robert slain by a boar (gluttony); the Twins symbolising the parallel plots - overt and covert - which intertwine in the Red Wedding (new alliance emerging from the betrayal of the old alliance); Joffrey using widowmaker, the sword (legacy) forged by his grandfather from the Stark ancestral weapon (Ice), to cut up a one-of-a-kind history book (Tyrion) and a pie containing live doves (Sansa), subsequently poisoned when the Queen of Thorns drops a crystal from the jewellery of Sansa (her simmering hatred masked by elegance) into his wine goblet... I'd love to see you unpack the way GRRM used symbolism, especially in the first book but with diminishing effectiveness throughout the series.

[@Inscriptions37]

I'd love to see another dialogue dive on one of Tyrion's scenes, given how much great dialogue he has in the early seasons and that he ultimately learned more from Tywin about how to "play the game" than either of his siblings ever did, making him just as skilled a manipulator as the father who was so ironically unable to see his value despite that fact.

[@product2759]

When he said "D&D" at 2:26, I really thought he meant Dungeons and Dragons for a second

[@plisskenetic]

I love how Tywin claims it's the famiy name that will live on, not Jaime's honor/ glory. But in the end..... Jaime's honor/ glory is literally the only thing that survives and NOT the Lannister name lol - courtesy of Brienne completing his chapter.

[@goatgary1]

You don't have to apologize for teaching. That sorry gave me great insight into yourself. Be confident and brave. Your worthy.

[@angrymeowngi]

Damn did not realize that he was introduced emptying bowels and his last scene was...ding ding ding. emptying his own bowels!

[@siddiqsmouse5004]

I live for your dialogue dives!!

[@tigerlilly9038]

First of all, Charles Dance. Second of all. Charles Dance. Third of all: CHARLES DANCE!!!!

[@danikeir]

One of the best things Tywin did was die before the writing got completely off the rails... a lot of fan favorite characters were the ones that didn't make it to seasons 7 and 8 ... Thank you for the deep dive! Extremely well done!

[@ShadeStormXD]

dude i love your videos, your insight is excellent

[@subarnosinha8042]

This writing isn't all D&D. They *did* write this, but under the stwedarship of George RR Martin himself. GRRM was heavily involved with the show during that time.

[@longling194]

No

[@CaptainPikeachu]

No, GRRM was never that heavily involved in the show. Please stop rewriting history. They didn’t make the show under GRRM’s stewardship, they made the show under their own power. GRRM was involved and wrote some episodes, but he had no control over anything. Stop trying to deny credit just because you want to prop up someone else.

[@longling194]

@@CaptainPikeachu just because they hate last season.