Dice Tower Re-Roll: Wingspan

[@mattydodgson]

You guys should consider having the game setup in front of you when you do this sort of segment. Would allow for some hands-on examples/discussions. Just a thought

[@Coffeemaker1978]

Matthew Dodgson agree, missed it too.

[@Patronux]

This is a great idea! It may also help giving them ideas on what to talk about

[@leoesu]

Great idea!!!

[@sentino68]

Totally agree. I’d rather see the game while 4 dudes talk about the game. Than just 4 dudes talking about the game alone.

[@adwilliams1987]

"I don't like the Dice Tower" - Tom Vasel

[@rjaredhamby]

So I am a birder, that's my #1 hobby. I travel all over seeing new birds and I came to this game when it was a pre-order because the Audubon Society shared an article on its design and production and how it was promoting the hobby of birdwatching to a different audience . Wanting to support anything to do with birds, I preordered it. I knew absolutely nothing about modern boardgaming, and now I am hooked on the hobby! I have fallen in love with the hobby. And Im loving some these games with unique themes like Western Legends and I love all these games based on nature like Parks, Bosk, etc. Wingspan was definitely my gateway game into the hobby! Now Im hooked!

[@J-Wheeler-G]

I will suggest Photosynthesis a little bit cutthroat but a really good game.

[@rjaredhamby]

@@J-Wheeler-G I have that one too! I went a little obsessive. Oops.

[@J-Wheeler-G]

@@rjaredhamby cool how do you like it? Which one is your favorite one?

[@antoyal]

Wow, that is great, Jared. Welcome to the hobby! I'll bet that Wingspan has been a gateway for some board gamers to birdwatching, too.

[@abletablegaming7328]

Welcome to the hobby!

[@Mahler1988]

Excellent video, I think that is the best format, reflecting together about games when you had the chance to play it a lot more and let time pass a bit. More please :)

[@clarklaster4824]

So I got Wingspan around Thanksgiving. It was the “New Thing” and had lots of hype. It totally lived up to the hype. My son, 6, and I play it 4-5 times a week. It has gotten him to start looking at birds, we even had to buy a Peterson Guidebook for him. Beautiful game. Easy to learn. So much love and time went into making it. Dice Tower continues to be my go to when I think of new games. You are honest, fair, and do an amazing job getting different games. Thank you all for you commitment.

[@jonjon2222]

LOVE this show format! It’s fluid, not contrived (is that the right word?) ; il flows nicely and all four participants had a voice and were respectfully listened to, which is not always the case in shows like these. I hope you do those regularly! Thanks!

[@joegraham2262]

I like when multiple people review a game because you get a better sense of the good, the bad and the ugly.

[@DarthEd77]

I’m loving these Re-Roll videos! Great job, Dice Tower crew!

[@evannadeau3938]

I don’t know if Zee tried this I’m sure Mike did but it is a very good solo game as well. They didn’t mention that in the video so I thought I’d throw that on there

[@alecgalbraith5604]

Come on Mike! You’re supposed to represent the solo community!

[@borreholic]

I think Mike's point was spot on: it has such wide appeal that many newbies can try it and not be too overwhelmed, any most gamers can appreciate it without being too annoyed or bored by its lightness. It really hits that sweetspot of sweetspots.

[@conormolloy1010]

This is one of the first games that caught my girlfriends eye when she was looking at my collection. She could not care less about board games and I try to get her to play the odd game here and there. This was one that she actually wanted to play without me having to ask and she loved it. Wingspan is truly a special game that will be around for a long time because of how accessible, approachable, beautiful and well made of a game it is.

[@thomaswhelan4472]

Curious: can you go into more detail of why your girlfriend like this game?

[@michaelmohring9284]

Same with me. This is so far one of the only games my wife asks to play. And she HATES birds lol.

[@conormolloy1010]

@@thomaswhelan4472 The art, the components and the theme. She doesn't like fantasy, space games or anything that is too complicated. Wingspan happened to check all of the boxes for her!

[@conradratchford]

The auto-generated subtitles came up with some great alter-ego nicknames: Tom Bassel Zhu Garcia Michael CEO Roy Candy

[@Patronux]

Conrad Ratchford HAHAHAHA these are great!

[@ribblettsgaming2779]

I like how you are doing a video like this. Thoughts of games after having time to play and get a really good feel for the game is great. I love Wingspan!

[@marklrsn]

I rarely upgrade components to a game, but did buy the wooden dice tower bird house from Amazon for wing span right away. It is made to fit right in the box, where the cardboard dice tower was. We like the look of it so much though, it is displayed on the shelf above the games when not in use. Wingspan has become a favorite game for our family.

[@DanYoungMusic]

My favorite experience with this game was using predators to collect a massive pile of dead rats. I don't think I won, but I had the most fun.

[@GameWeekendChalbie]

I watched Tom’s review of wingspan and immediately went to Stonemaier’s website to preorder it. I fell in love with the gameplay and theme. It is currently my favorite game and has held that spot for about a year. I liked it so much I bought other Stonemaier games. It’s still my favorite one, but Viticulture and Scythe are awesome and I hadn’t tried them before. I also agree it’s a little complicated to be considered “gateway” But I think it’s close. And the mechanisms aren’t so bad. I have played it with non-gamers who just love birds. My aunt says “I don’t quite understand the game, but I want to play it to see all the birds”

[@DianeMountford]

One plus to higher player counts on Wingspan, especially with the expansion, is that you get more bonuses off-turn. So you might need to take "gain food" as your next action, but actually gain the food you need before your next turn rolls around. It's very snappy at two, but I really like it at five, because my actions are usually more powerful.

[@ArnoVdVelde]

This is a great idea, I love to see some look backs on a bunch of other games.

[@Alan-pn8nu]

I was recently trying to decide on buying this or Oceans. I decided on Oceans for three reasons. 1. The theme is a little more connected to the mechanisms. 2. There is less randomness. 3. More player interaction. Hopefully, Oceans will turn out to be a really good game too.

[@ModernPlague]

Oceans sounds pretty cool! Some of the art & color schemes look a little garish to me (from the little bit I've seen), but Rahdo said in his recent review of Oceans that it "destroys" Evolution (the somewhat similar, previous evolution-themed game from that company).

[@bearhustler]

Oceans is one of the few nature games that actually seems to use the theme properly. Wingspan, for me, is pretty but thematically dead.

[@mosiahatwood1851]

For any one that knows birds this game is a gem! The theme is so much fun, especially for me, I really like looking for birds (In real life) and to have the experience of looking through bird cards as you are playing a game, I find so enjoyable. I find myself going "ah yes, the eastern screech owl, I've seen one of those" or "wow the American Redstart does that?!, that makes so much sense" or "the Great Horned Owl "eats" other birds to get more points, wow". This game is so enjoyable and is one of my and my wife's favorite games to play together. I really, really love the bird theme and I love its uniqueness. This game has been so well thought through, and if you know birds you'll understand that even more. Anyway, love this game, would recommend it to most people, but especially to any Birders.

[@nascinski]

I actually like the action cubes haha! I like that they're minimalistic and the colours are great. They look good in the game, don't overcrowd it so that we enjoy all the other art in the game. :)

[@joegraham2262]

Yes and they don’t constantly tip over like the bird tokens.

[@KabukiKid]

I think one of the only knocks I can give it (other than thr cubes) is that it doesn't scale the same with a low player count. The birds that activate on another player's turn when something happens is less likely to happen with two players. It isn't a deal-breaker, but I would make sure players understood that going in... before they invested heavily in such birds. ;-)

[@garys4067]

Wingspan is our favorite game right now. We are kind of in the mode of play Wingspan, play something else, play Wingspan, play something else, play Wingspan, play something else, play Wingspan, etc.

[@BlGMEX]

Love this new format/idea of "Re-roll" to get a second opinion of the game after there has been some time to let it sink in!

[@mescaLEO]

The more I watch videos with Mike, the more I appreciate his presence in the Dice Tower segments: he's always polite, on point, well mannered and never over the top

[@martinlarouche4418]

Agreed. He's a great alternative to Sam in those discussions and top 10 lists. He seems witty, intelligent and most importantly: can throw some at Zee and Tom, which always makes these discussions more entertaining to watch. Appearance of camaraderie and playing the jesters can go a long way. Imo, this is what's missing from the MVM channel. They are super professional and a great source for info on games, but they are always super serious all the time, so they get a bit boring to watch with time. Wil Wheaton understood this too in the old Tabletop: comedy is needed in these kind of shows. ... and Roy can fill in once in a while to cover the type of games that appealled mostly to Sam in the original trio.

[@feverpa]

I play a game or two of Wingspan solo several times a week. It's probably my favorite game overall, and in my top two or three solo games now.

[@leighd4908]

My four-year-old loves playing this with me but he’s a bit too young, so he plays as the Automa. 😂 We both have fun and he almost always wins!

[@Chereebers]

Leigh Dalman this is a great idea!

[@jameskirk4692]

Hi! I am interested to find out if now, 3 years later, your 4yo has kept interest in Wingspan and has he learned to play it the full way on his own? I have a 7yo niece who enjoys playing board games and does play games outside of recommended minimum age.

[@leighd4908]

@@jameskirk4692Hi Captain. The four year old is now eight and still very much into games, but we’re on others now (Pandemic, Villagers and Sky Team are the current faves). We might get Wingspan out today and see how it goes.

[@jameskirk4692]

​@@leighd4908😃 😉 (thanks for recognizing, I think lots of people think it's my real name 😊) And thanks for responding. I am very glad to hear that. Board games are so "healthy" and useful for children to practice young, they can learn many skills through playing them, in a fun relaxing way. And often they can properly understand and play games with even recommended age higher then their own (in more complex ones you guide them but they can enjoy it). My niece's favorite, while she was between 5 and 6yo, was Ticket To Ride and she knew even then to often win, on her own without help, but she got quite over it(little bored of it I guess cause we had played I think over 50 plays in under a year, she used to ask for it like crazy). And she loved Azul Summer Pavilion, and Carcassonne. Nowadays I don't think she has favorites. We play more diverse ones cause I am crazy about board games 😊 and want to introduce her to lots of them. She responds well, doesn't mind learning new ones. Some she enjoys often is King Of Tokyo (which we house ruled in our family to make it thrice more fun😉 for us), Museum Suspects, Sonar Family, Takenoko, Eriantys, Tobago, Quest for El Dorado. I asked about your son's Wingspan interest cause it is my own absolute favorite most enjoyable game (playing solo against computer players in the gorgeous digital version - I recommend it for any Wingspan lovers) and I'd love to get her into it. But I doubt she will be able to get into that game, especially cause we are Croatian and she doesn't understand English. And we also already own similar, sort of tableu/engine builder card-collecting(not sure how to call it), game Dog Park which I bought for another older niece who loves dogs. Last few times we, other family members, played it, she wanted and did join us, she seems to like it. Anyway, keep up the great work parenting with board games 😉 and I do wish you and your family all the best.❤

[@samueleuresti3]

I was absolutely against playing Wingspan. The hype was finally to the point where I finally gave in and tried it. Now, I'm hooked.

[@chimster1234]

Why were u so dead against playing it?

[@samueleuresti3]

@@chimster1234 I assumed the theme was boring. Plus, I don't like playing game that are hyped up. I just played Ticket to Ride for the first time about a month ago. The fact that everyone was excited about it for years turned me off from the game. I'm just weird like that

[@uplift-yourdailypickup6424]

Samuel Euresti III I’m like that too about hype.

[@chimster1234]

@@samueleuresti3 ahh, yes I agree

[@thomaswhelan4472]

Curious, how would you have like to hear about the game, if not through the hype?

[@kotieerwee2593]

This doesnt feel like Roy's type of game but i feel he had a lot of insightfull comments. Very good video.

[@petervedder1428]

On player count: at two players the pink power cards are a lot less valuable. If there are 4 players, then there are 3 possible players that can take the action that triggers your bonus, so it has a greater likelihood ood hitting more frequently.

[@petervedder1428]

*of

[@willyum3108]

If you have a 1st ed, you can purchase the 10 card starter deck from Stonemaier for $5.

[@Mentat1231]

Please keep doing these!

[@petergross7235]

I don't care for wingspan myself. But I love this format so much I had to watch it! Nice job again guys.

[@grimheart21]

Roy and his constant use of "like" is driving me nuts. LOL :)

[@flybryfly]

Thank you, Tom, for the Race for the Galaxy comment near the end. I have been really on the fence on this beautiful game. I couldn’t believe it was at Target! Race for the Galaxy is my favorite game and I am trying to determine if Wingspan would be a gateway game to ease people into Race for the Galaxy. It sounds like I should buy Wingspan and help others learn this style of game.

[@antonieschwartz]

Wingspan is my favourite game and by some margin. It's the only game I've never not been in the mood to play. I jumped on the initial pre-orders (first and only time I bought a game blind) probably due to some bias (birding is my other hobby), but it exceeded even my very high expectations. I was hoping though that someone (Mike) would touch on the solo-mode. I may actually prefer solo to multiplayer. I divide my shuffled deck in three piles and then usually play three games in quick succession (can almost play three games in under an hour). It means I see a lot of the birds in a three game session. The Automa is SOOOO smooth and easy to use. The expansion makes the game even better. Sure, luck plays a big part in the game, but I love it all the same.

[@apertotes]

Tom, this is a great video and it is a shame that you only did three of them. I would like to encourage you to do one for each Top 100 or 200 game. I would watch them all!

[@astrophe-cat]

Tower Rex have designed a nice dice tower for Wingspan, both as part for their beautiful insert, and a separate, larger one.

[@ericsmith9212]

My family and friends LOVE Wingspan. Anyone I have taught it to wants to instantly play again. This review seems to reach for criticisms which is the sign of a good game. As far as bad hands, I think there are plenty of ways to get what you need and reset. Egg laying at the end is a viable strategy. Definitely helps if you are struggling.

[@hanseathl]

Great format and since last weekend I agree that it is not a gateway game. I thought it might work as such but we played it with an couple that is "only" familiar with card games and it was obviously more difficult for the to grasp than I thought. I will be much more cautious to use it as an introductory game in the future.

[@Bodyknock]

Regarding the Wingspan dice tower, I found that if I simply left the roof off and flung the dice in straight through where the roof would be it works much better. But yeah, that dice tower is definitely an example of “form over function”, it looks pretty but is functionally pretty worthless.

[@LeeKenshin7]

I agree. I put mine on display with the Everdell tree and just put a collapsible dice tray in the box. Allows more space for my 3D printed components as well.

[@MrJacobSteed]

Good format. At 9:00, I would disagree. I taught this to my mother in law who has played Just One as her heaviest board game and she picked it up after the 1st round. It is very easy to understand.

[@TylerAndToast]

CONS: 3 different rulebooks, lack of player interaction (without expansion), card draw can hurt you PROS: thematic (amount of eggs is proportional, nest types, abilities, food types, everything), infinite replayability with engines always being different, every bird is unique, component quality, choices that matter but dont bog the game down, great scalability, favors multiple strategies, unique theme with great art.

[@TylerAndToast]

Oh, and inherently as an engine builder it just gets more and more fun.

[@philipthonemann2524]

Thanks for this - lots of helpful insights into a game we don't (yet) possess!

[@mje80x]

I always just tell people to imagine they're bird watching. Then it oozes w/theme because the card draws are the randomness of maybe not seeing that particular bird while you're out birding in the forest, grassland, or wetlands.

[@ktrazz]

The Automa is so good, Tom would even love it! X)

[@terpsichore21]

I just recently played the game and I noticed the same egg related problem that was brought up early in the video. I was definitely in last place until the very last round of the game, and because I only had so many actions left, I spent them all on collecting eggs, which netted me 27 points just from eggs! Despite that getting me the victory, I felt like I cheesed the system a little, just by spamming the same action over and over in the last round.

[@loneXolf]

I haven't played wingspan much. So I might be wrong on these points, but I have two main problems with the game. 1. Birds that have a "draw more bird cards" action and don't go into the "draw bird cards" row feel way too efficient, they pretty much let you ignore spending actions on the draw bird card row. 2. The bird card selection feels so random at times.

[@Erlaad]

Good group review! I personally did not enjoy the game very much. I thought the mechanics were too simple for a game so lavish (i.e., a 50$ game that plays like a 30$ card game), and it was too much multiplayer solitaire (I don't think you really care much about other players, but it was a long time ago). It failed to leave a lasting impression. However I would not be opposed to trying it again.

[@justinrrizzo]

My problem with this game is the end game scoring cards are mega powerful. If you draw those at mid-end game, they are hand over fist more valuable than anything else. Couple that with the rando elements (roll/draw and hope for success) really drags the excellent game down from being a fantastic engine builder into a light, Kingdomino style affair.

[@bigbadVuk]

How is that true? A bird that propels you from 2nd to last in an end of round goal ~same amount of points. Bonus cards give you like 3-7 points normally, and just laying eggs gives you 3-4 points. Playing such a bird mid-late costs 1-2 eggs, so you lose 1-2 points on playing it to gain 0-7 points. Even if you get 7, you still only gained 5-6 off that move. There are ways to cache food/lay eggs/tuck cards that give you 5-6 points per turn at the end, so getting that 1 bonus card that gives you 7 points is really far from a problem as you make it out to be in your post.

[@cthulwho8197]

My main issue is the goals combined with the luck of the draw. One player can draw a bird that not only matches her own goal (colour in their name) but also matches what you need in rounds 3 (stick nests) and round 4 (grassland). So by playing that one card down she moves towards scoring in three goals. Another player meanwhile may have no card that matches more than one goal at a time and so needs to play three cards down to get the same benefit. Not only does that cost them more resources but it takes more actions and this is a game of very limited number of actions across the whole game. So you’re building an efficiency engine with randomly efficient parts. The only my other issue is that the top action of playing cards down has no trickle effect. All the other three do and so it stands out and catches players out. It even looks different, it’s off the board after all. I’ve had many players say “I’ll play this bird down...and then activate these” and I have to jump in and say “No, they don’t activate, all you do is put the card down, that’s it”. None of those makes it a bad game for me, it’s an ok game. For me it’s fine, but not outstanding.

[@cthulwho8197]

I played a game where I had a really good engine in my starting hand. One card spent an egg to tuck two cards, the next let me take any food, the last let me spend a worm to do something or other. And they all went on the egg laying line. So I could lay eggs, spend it to tuck cards, take a worm and then spend the worm. I had that engine down by very early on in round 2 and just kept running it. Another player didn’t really get any cards that worked well together till the last turn. I won but I didn’t feel it was down to any thing I did, it was just a really lucky initial deal.

[@malcolmmacdonald9238]

The only thing that I don't care to much for this game is there is very little to no player interaction

[@007Kiristo]

Sometimes I play my turn during someone else's turn and they get upset because they aren't done, but if they aren't drawing cards (or I'm not), then it really doesn't matter.

[@marduk3604]

I like this type of videos, do more of these.

[@linusottosson5425]

This is awesome! Great format!

[@danielmv55]

What a nice show! love the format

[@Mark-OutWest]

Hmm got a bunch of this game on the shelves at B&N.

[@rb4551]

reroll dices if you only have one choice of food to pick or if you ran out of dices...awkward but simple once you know lol.

[@rickadam6051]

I think Wingspan is fantastic, I gave it a 9.25 out of 10 and it was my #2 best game of 2019. Getting fewer actions each round as the game goes on feels a little weird to me, but I might get over that with more plays. Something you guys didn't mention about playing with more players is that you have some cards that trigger when other players take a turn, so with more players you have more options of that happening. I think the scaling is interesting because like you guys did point out, it's a different game at different player counts, but I think they all work, though I have not played at 5. Love the game, love Stonemaier games, excited for this new series you guys are doing! My other very small nitpick is Wingspan needs Mandarin ducks!

[@AhJong0]

I finally got to play this at the weekend. I was a little concerned because I’ve not gelled well with Stonemeyer in the past and there was SO much hype. It was excellent. Immediately played it again and really hoping someone in my group picks it up. So pleased to see such a different theme have a wonderful game with it. Kudos p. This is a great format for these sorts of games - more of these please!

[@thomaswhelan4472]

Would you say that the quality of a game needs to match to be constanstant to the hype put out?

[@AhJong0]

Thomas Whelan not quite sure I understand the question there dude? 🙂

[@adamwojtasiak6204]

The mixing up of bird cards more often with 4 players is a similar problem as with parks. I love playing 2 player with my girlfriend in parks, but often times there’s just not a ton of variety because the same parks are always out. Get four or five players and you see a whole new set of parks twice each season at least

[@srdaniel2]

Cool video. I still haven't got to play Wingspan myself yet.

[@Bodyknock]

I really enjoy Wingspan’s in-game solo mode. It kind of supplanted Terraforming Mars as a card based engine building solo game for me on the table. (Terraforming Mars is also great solo but Wingspan is just a little bit quicker to play and I really like the theme.)

[@MeepleMentor]

Wingspan is still a great game. Very solid. The expansion is pretty cool too.

[@meristars]

Great video. I saw Tom's original review for Wingspan and promptly marched into my flgs and got then to order it in. Didn't regret it, love the game. Shop still can't keep a copy on their shelves for more than a week it seems.

[@thomaswhelan4472]

What do you think it is about this game that everyone loves?

[@ericmcoulter]

I love this segment! Please continue to do more. My least favorite part about this game is the play bird action. It is so tiny on the top of the player mat that it seems to confuse every person I teach the game to. I wish they would have made it a little bit bigger.

[@brownrhythms]

Ravens, I believe, are a bit overpowered in a 2-player game and can be rather good in other counts, so I swap them out in a 2-player game. I think 3-4 players is best.

[@nzcamel3]

I think Wingspan will be the most influential game of the 20-teens. It's ability to reach people who aren't board gamers while being a strong game will be looked to as a template for a long time to come.

[@nothing3376]

I love this show! And I love this full group

[@alexandretavares3081]

Really like this format. Although, I disagree on Wingspan being better with fewer players. Really prefer it with 3+ becaus there are more cards coming to the game and more "between turns" abilities (pink) being activated.

[@homelessjoe]

These lookbacks really display how much weight Roy lost. Good job man.

[@Micolash_is_behind_you]

My biggest complaint it is some of the descriptions of the birds. Alot say "the most interesting thing about this bird is that it was named after some dude". oh wow, what a bird. And some say "the most interesting thing about this bird is that it's being driven to extinction by players like you". well if that's the most interesting thing about the bird then what's the point in saving it? That part really needs to be fixed, her focus is more on humans than the beauty of the individual creatures.

[@tommygrahn1516]

Great job,really like this concept. You guys are great

[@JarradShaw]

Wish you guys would do a 2:1 ratio to fit iPhones and Samsung phones plus wider angle TVs. Love it all though guys 😎

[@gooddaysgames586]

After telling my friend how popular Wingspan is and how well it did on the market, he bought me a copy! I still haven't played it yet, but damn I can't wait to give it a try! Maybe at DTW??

[@gamegraves]

really love this format my guys

[@nicktrkulja]

Hi. I still really enjoy the game. My friends think the cycling of cards is too random and have gone a it cold on it.

[@affey]

I enjoy this kind of 'lookback' to a game. Wingspan was very solid, although not amazing for me personally. I'd rate 7.5. Although as Tom mentioned, the theme and production alone is more likely to bring it to my table than other 'better' engine building games. Might be a matter of inexperience with the game, but I felt like the engine building didn't have much spectacle to it. Everything was barely incremental, which wasn't super satisfying for me. And just when the engine started doing cool stuff, the game was over.

[@Jackwraith]

My reaction was similar. It doesn't do anything that other, similar engine builders don't already do. I bought it off the shelf at my one of my FLGS (Vault of Midnight in Ann Arbor) because there was so much hype around it, although some people at ThereWillBe.Games had already warned me that it was somewhat overblown. Turns out they were right. It's an average engine builder, albeit a very pretty one, with a clear winning strategy (eggs) that doesn't do a whole lot, otherwise. I'd rather play 51st State every time. I traded it for a copy of 878 Vikings.

[@Medsas]

Nice new series format! Re-reviewing overhyped games is a good idea

[@ianoble]

Wait, I'm pretty sure there are duplicates, with just different bird names and pictures.

[@Micolash_is_behind_you]

yes i remember we had 2 types of the same bird, and it had the same exact stats and effects

[@waynesifter76]

Not a gateway game... hehe - when I am bored, going to Amazon and reading reviews on Wingspan is pretty entertaining.

[@nickl3169]

I really like this new series format.

[@bushibayushi]

great format! I love it

[@Davearmstrong42]

I think it's closer to 130k copies. I'm a HUGE stonemaier fanboy and this is not traditionally a game I'd play but OMG my wife adores it and at our local conventions I teach it often... I'm not a bird fan by nature but I do find myself really looking at the actual bird on the card where normally I just do the math of the game mechanics.

[@davidmaynor2855]

If there are now starter or tutorial cards in the newer releases, I don't think those get shuffled in for your main game. If you did, now all those percentages at the bottom of your personal goal cards would be wrong. Sounds to me like those are tutorial only cards.

[@marduk3604]

Stonemaier said that all percentages are still valid with/without the Swiftstart and/or European Expansion. :) They took that into account when designing these.

[@PwndNewbie]

We have found that Wingspan has the illusion of strategy, but the winner is ultimately determined by the cards each player draws. Get cards that match the end round bonus early, you get free points. When you draw cards makes a big difference. Example: Draw the Mallard in the beginning of the game equals a ton of extra cards, and is much better than the abundance of birds that let you draw a card then discard a card. Drawing it late game, it is a dead card.

[@SD_Marc]

Yeah, that dice tower is super hard to operate. What with the hole always in the same place on the back. Dumbfounding.

[@FoeJred]

at 15:00 min mark. This is actually a 4 player game, but your point still stands about the player time.

[@msmilder25]

I just bought the game last week, it does play 1-5 players. Did early print runs only play 4?

[@abletablegaming7328]

I have a first edition and it plays 1-5

[@andyscout]

Having played probably most commonly at 4 players, 2-3 does feel like a different dynamic. One thing you guys didn't touch on is that some of the birds themselves get worse at lower player counts. Some of the 'between turns' powers can be significantly stronger when there are more players and thus more opportunity for it to be triggered between each of your turns. This is especially true for the few birds that trigger on already rare actions. For example, there are a few that give you a bonus if someone else is successful at a predator power. I've found those birds virtually unplayable with 2 players unless your opponent already has a predator. But with 4 or 5, it's easier to play one early and hope someone else will play a predator.

[@007Kiristo]

I avoided this game for about a year thinking it was overhyped. My wife wanted it though, so I got it recently, and yea, it's a good game. It's still massively overhyped, but I do enjoy it. Another reason I didn't want it is that I already have Seasons, another light weight, quick engine builder. I like this more than Seasons. I do think the game still has enough randomness to it (mainly in what cards you get) that you can lose simply due to bad luck if someone draws better. It's a quick enough game that it isn't a big deal, but that combined with the limited (comparatively) ways to build your engine and the game ending right as your engine tends to get going will keep this (and other light engine builders) from having anything on a game like Terraforming Mars other than playtime and ease in teaching.

[@iamspamus8784]

Wingspan is my favorite game of last year. I think five is too many. I have mostly played with 3-4. I like that.

[@evansj18]

Just leave the 'roof' off the birdhouse dice tower. Much easier to just drop the dice in.

[@JenMSc]

That's what I've started doing for exactly the reasons they talked about.

[@joehuiras4955]

Birds have legs

[@manuboucheraudio4363]

Love that Copy-Paste gesture from Zee at 6:00.

[@Rustie_za]

totally disconnected as they talk about stuff but there is no board on front of them?

[@triplel3910]

As biologist I like this game but come to it from more as birdwatching-birdfeeding angle. I keep the swift pack to use for teaching new people. On BGG the is excel file that has explanation for all cards combined or can get European separate from U.S. Can't wait for Oceans!!! Love Blue Penguins and Wedde-tailed Eagles💜

[@vazp3]

I do think this is a gateway game. I'ts the only game I've convinced my sister and mother to play with me. The starter mats were crucial for this. after setup it took 2 minutes to get them playing.

[@renempineda]

20:24 that's what she said Mike

[@chrismurphy9932]

I think it's good that it's a different theme, but it honestly just doesn't do anything for me personally. I haven't played it for that reason. I'm not actively avoiding it, I just haven't been excited about seeking out a copy to play. I'm glad it sold a lot of copies and I hope that translates to us getting more diverse themes, it just isn't something that I'm super excited about.

[@Fissi0nChips]

People who say "I just don't like birds theme" and so won't play this game are, frankly, being a dick. I would refer you to the recent top 10 enemies of board games list with Rodney Smith, Tom and Zee.

[@Flackon16]

Does anyone know where we can find the wooden birds that were mentioned? Looking to buy this game but hate the cubes

[@chenchen_9999]

Meeplesource have some pretty ones but the wooden birds are expensive imo. If this is your favorite game then it is still worth it.

[@Indiana_Knows]

Great solo mode