Did a Swimming Pool Rout Destroy My Tone?

Hipshot Flatmount Bridge: warmoth.com/index.php/hardwar...
See all of Warmoth's pickup rout patterns here: warmoth.com/guitar-pickup-routs
0:00 Intro
0:17 Swimming Pool Rout
1:03 Test Parameters
2:59 Signal Chain
3:22 Test 1
3:59 Test 2
4:21 Test 3
4:55 Test 4
5:23 Test 5
5:46 Test 6
6:22 Aaron's Thoughts
7:13 Hipshot Hardtail Bridge

[@andrewsmith1520]

Is Aaron the only guy on YT who can record a lick THE ACTUAL SAME but with time in between? Dude is a machine of consistency! Awesome demo!

[@warmoth]

Haha....thanks! ((Adds "machine of consistency" to resume.))

[@Irkennalpha]

Aaron, you deserve a PhD in Tone Studies, thanks for all the videos.

[@filipematias2239]

No difference that I can attribute solely to the changes being measured. Thank you for this test!

[@NicolasHosford]

What I love about all of these tests is that it reminds me to stop thinking about this stuff and go play!

[@taimaishu-nao1922]

Aaron, the fact that you mentioned that you *may* have played a bit differently in the clips is something I rarely see in many of the hardware tests I see on the platform.

[@windsurfmaui8239]

Thanks for doing this comparison. I actually did hear a difference and the swimming pool route actually sounded better. Which makes me feel really happy since I always order the universal route and have carved out a couple of swimming pools in guitars I already own. In addition, to the ability to have any pickup options you want it really does make it much easier to put the pickguard and wiring on the guitar when you don't have to guide the wires through those small openings between pickups. In the early days of the Strat when they came with single-ply pickguards the single-ply pickguard would start to sag in the middle without the support of the route wings between the pickups. But with the triple ply or more pickguard that is no longer a problem and so the universal route is a very convenient option.

[@BenBreard]

Thanks for making this shootout. This is one of those specs I've been curious about for years. These videos are high value and much appreciated!!

[@randomguitarnote8887]

You have the best job ever my friend.

[@JTWilde]

I'm so glad you did this because I just got a swimming pool routed beauty and my new neck comes this week so now I have no doubts it will be badass!

[@BrodyCox]

THANK YOU for making the Hipshot hardtail a standard menu option!

[@frankpotter5936]

I hear a difference. The swimming pool route has less low end and sounds a bit more trebly, slightly more open and frontal high mids. I'm listening in a studio environment.

[@twenty3electronics]

This is what I got from it too. I find that any time you are removing wood, or going lighter, you are taking away low mids. This is a pretty subtle example, but it’s audible. There were moments when I thought I could hear some hollowness from the universal route as well.

[@tacomundo]

Ah yes, the old wood affects a magnetic field argument.

[@mikedamisch]

Love these videos guys!

[@artg2767]

I agree that the swimming pool route sounds more open. The clean tones seemed to have a more acoustic sound. Keeping in mind it is slight.

[@SchmaexiMcMaexi]

When you think about it there is a spectrum from solid body to hollow body. If you keep removing wood of course it's gonna sound more like a hollow body. Would be interesting how much you have to remove to get the "hollow body sound".

[@Kenneyty]

If there’s any difference, the pool sounds a little more open- like on its way to a semi-hollow kind of tone. But that might be entirely in my head. It’s damn close

[@Millo1868]

It could be entirely in both our heads. I also wasn't watching the vid, just listening as I wrote a list, and had to check the vid.

[@deathbydeviceable]

@@Millo1868 not in our heads. I thought the pool sounded like it had more oomph where the standard sounded a little tinny

[@JoshuaC923]

Great playing Aaron

[@Davidthestratman7]

Awesome man. Keep the videos coming

[@peterschaefer1665]

Nice job Aaron and thanks for dispelling that myth! Please carry the wilkinson locking saddles bridge and proper route!!

[@hearpalhere]

Another awesome test Aaron, nice going! I was fairly convinced that I could hear a difference in the first couple of clean settings. Then, when the grit was added, I couldn't hear any difference whatsoever. I've now listened to the tests again and can only notice a difference on the very first clip. The difference is very subtle and could be down to playing slightly differently. In all the tests I've seen you do, you play remarkably consistently and I think that really helps. I would agree with you in your conclusions.

[@WillfulThinker]

Aaron, watch your right-hand position! On first listen of test #3, with my eyes closed, I thought I heard a difference specifically on the strummed parts. But I am skeptical of my judgment on tests like this. After two more listens, however, I was sure I heard a difference. Then I looked at your right hand. I see a different strumming style and position in the before and after takes of that particular test. I'm attributing the difference in sound to the right hand rather than the routing. By the way, I have 4 if not 5 of those LPs you have up there! Keep the videos coming!

[@alexanderlofstedt]

Hi Aaron, I absolutely love these kind of comparisons. You are probably one of the fews out there trying out things such as SSS vs Swimming pool route on the same body haha! Please keep on with the channel! Absolutely love Warmoth, despite being in the EU haha! 😜 keep on pickin' dude! 🤘😎

[@richarde3378]

Great post! I've always thought this. Thanks for the explanation!

[@guitartim2128]

I've had guitars with the swimming pool routs and single coil routs....no lose of tone . Grosh uses the swimming pool rout and so does KIESEL. Great video 👍😆

[@jmcgregor316]

Another very informative video. Thank you!

[@allibrero]

The test with the universal rout sounded ever so slightly louder on my KRK Rokit 5s. But the difference is hardly anything that I would care to even think about if it were me playing. Thank you for this test. I had wondered about this in the past.

[@Nonexistanthuman]

One of the coolest channels by far on YT

[@TommySG1]

Agreed, I don’t hear any difference at least nothing worth mentioning. 🤙 I always go with the swimming pool route myself just for convenience purposes Incase I wish to swap something out down the road.

[@christophernickels7846]

Very subtle difference. Universal rout is a little warmer, but not much. I found that my universal rout guitars shine when you have more stage volume, especially when you have the pickguard screwed down snug (no loose screws) and acoustically coupled with the body. From articles I read, Allan Holdsworth liked them because they make his guitars more resonant without sacrificing tone.

[@buster52]

Dropped a neck off with my old friend and tech for new tuners and a conversation started, re your comparo vids, and they REALLY appreciate your stuff as they build a lot of custom-order guitars. And I had a swimming-pool route in my American Std 84 Strat and no problem?

[@ChuckChrome]

Thanks for doing this where you stick with the same body. Thought both configurations sounded like a good strat-style guitar.

[@vautrain]

I just received a sweet, lightweight swamp ash hardtail body with a swimming pool route from Warmoth, exactly because I want options and don't want to worry about the route in the future. I intend to have HH and SSS guards ready to drop in. Can't wait to finish it and put it together!

[@unclestubs8377]

There was a difference at the end. When you did the headbanger thing, I started doing devil horns! Thanks for this as I'm doing this exact mod to my strat copy so that I have a pick guard for SSS Texas specials and one for Jazzmasters.

[@barnettg66]

I sometimes wondered about the pool vs standard rout also. I have a 7/8th S-Style with the pool rout, and it is a killer guitar in all regards. Great tone clean or distorted. All of my other bodies are factory Fender (both American and MIM) with a mix of single and humbucker routs. This video fairly proves that the difference with the pool is marginal to nil. I do find a big difference in necks with modern construction vs vintage/vintage-modern and have come to prefer the modern construction. But so much of it is fleeting perception and hunch, rather than repeatable and provable fact. That's why I like these videos so much. Helps dispel myths.

[@Swampster70]

For some reason I was sure the old school "route each pickup separately because more wood = good" would be better but the swimming pool route sounds a little clearer and more open. This shouldn't surprise me as my Strat did sound a little better when I routed out my Strat for a bridge humbucker. Thanks for the video!

[@davidtreaster4397]

Perfect timing. I have a strat body ordered with universal route

[@billvillamusic3625]

Yes! Holy Diver album in the background … and some other great ones 👍

[@clockwork914]

Sounded identical enough for me❕

[@blyndblitz]

love hardtail strats

[@theronbain532]

I noticed more clarity and focused sound in the traditional rout. I hear less definition and focus in the sound of the universal route. To me, both routes sound good but I think the traditional route allows the pickups to express themselves better. Thanks, great video.

[@GuitarGearGyan]

That hardtail option looks amazing.

[@Kylora2112]

Hipshot. They make good stuff.

[@richsackett3423]

@@Kylora2112 and it doesn't cost a fortune.

[@JBurtonTenor]

My 87 (I think) American Standard Strat has a Universal rout, and I have always felt it is a little more acoustic sounding, and has almost a natural reverb. This is confirmed here, to my ears. Thanks!

[@Rigjoker64]

My experience with the pool route is that at high volume the pickguard can vibrate and then create some unwanted feedback . It happened with several guitars I had with that route and will never own or build one anymore . That’s probably why a builder like Tyler uses a 2/3 + 1/3 route .

[@cm-kl2wx]

So maybe a stiffer pickguard could solve the problem... if available?

[@darvinclement3250]

I thought I heard a tiny difference in the clean settings. I prefer the guitar routed for the specific pickups, just because. Great video!

[@richiebohr5421]

Unless you're trying to fool us, this test turned out differently than I would have expected. In almost all examples, I heard a difference. The swimming pool route sounded fuller and just better in all of them. That runs counter to my thinking. The one with more wood I would have thought would better and it just didn't. Very interesting. PS. I have two Warmoth swimming pool routed bodies but I've never really delved into it. Thanks for doing this.

[@AnonContributor]

I only ever order the swimming pool from you guys. I ust liked the weight reduction! I hear an small amount of warm low mid oomph w the Uni rout. And when it got dirty, it seemed be a bit more hairy or aggressive sounding than the reg rout. I would stick w the Universal rout. Good vid Aaron! This one was great.

[@picksalot1]

I could hear a slight difference. The swimming pool rout sounded a little fuller, had more mids, and was more open. I preferred that tone. It was an interesting comparison and produced some unexpected results. Thanks for using cleaner type tones. Direct mounting pickups to the body vs mounting to a pickguard also has interesting effects on tone.

[@wonnie]

Keven Eknes has something like that with his Strandberg guitar. He had a Strandberg that he modded from direct mount pickups only to a swimming pool pickguard mounted guitar. It's probably the only other comparison you can find related to this until the Warmoth guys do it.

[@picksalot1]

@@wonnie Yes, I saw that video and was surprised at the difference in tone. One more interesting factor that affects tone.

[@jaakkokunnas]

Yepp, the universal routing provided bit of a fuller tone with more mids. More natural and open to my taste.

[@Thirdgen83]

Nonsense.

[@Thirdgen83]

@@picksalot1 Nonsense.

[@guitarded7131]

Fender has also used this rout in the past. I had a 94 strat with this routing. However it was routed very shallow. When I was about to switch to two HB's I had to rout it a bit more for them to fit better.

[@Jeffy2n]

Arron, the only one I could hear any difference was test 5. It seemed to gain additional bass response. And some to test 6, but to a lesser amount. It is minor at best, and I can not say either is better or worse. The only reason I do not like the swimming pool route, and this only relates to a tremolo version, is that it weakens to tremolo screw mounting area and can cause the wood to fail and break. (More common with the two post modern tremolo)

[@GCKelloch]

It's more likely that the decreased body rigidity allows for more midrange absorption in the strings. That's what I heard. The main resonant freq of the body would also be a bit lower, as well as stronger. That would absorb that lower freq in the strings more than the higher resonant freq is absorbed by the stiffer body. The reason it sounds like there's more bass in the distorted sounds at the end is likely because the stronger midrange signal (due to the more rigid body) compresses the amp circuitry more, thereby decreasing bass. It could also be the it just sounds like there's more bass because there's less midrange harmonics. Maybe a bit of both.

[@joshuahenry7482]

James Tyler is another high end builder that uses the swimming pool route. Holdsworth also preferred it on his Charvels.

[@joshuafreedman7703]

Like a lot of other commentors, I found the universal route to sound more open and airy, a bit warmer, and, better!

[@corneliuscrewe677]

I listened a couple of times without watching , couldn’t hear any appreciable difference. Certainly nothing you!d hear once the drummer kicks in. Universal route all the way🤘

[@angrybabka9483]

Thanks. I didn't hear some big difference here, but it would be interesting to compare different body shapes (strat/tele etc) with same pickups and hardware

[@copperaudio9664]

What they \/ said. The lower midrange was a bit louder and sounded warmer. Lefty's love Warmoth. 😎

[@richsackett3423]

Again, the distorted tone tells the most interesting story, like the body wood experiment. The S/S/S is brighter. Already done this experiment myself - kinda. I routed out the middle pickup for a P pickup to match an eBay pickguard for my 94 MIM fretless Jazz. I realized too late that it had it in the wrong spot. 2nd pickguard had it in the right place. After all that, there's much less material under the pickguard. Made it more mid-focused, which really suited the bass so it broke my way. I was worried, because you know, you hear stories.

[@blackhatjester]

I love these shootouts, another interesting one would be 1-piece maple neck (fretboard and neck are one piece) vs 2-piece maple neck (fretboard glued on the neck).

[@yikelu]

Felt like the universal had a touch less high end. But the difference is about the order of magnitude of playing a bit differently/on a different spot along the string, or change in humidity, or turning the amp treble knob up a bit.

[@JoeR203]

Is that guitar Vintage White? Vintage Cream? Light Yellow? To me, the universal rout sounded slightly louder.

[@gregbrown4009]

My comment before listening to Aarons comments: Universal rout is a little, but noticeably, brighter. I like that brightness, but that is total personal preference.

[@gregbrown4009]

Thanks Aaron for running this test! I imagine it would be difficult for the player to hear a difference due to many issues, but as a "detatched" listtener I can hear a difference. Glad I have the universal rout in my Strat!

[@robmitchell1985]

I did hear a slight difference in some of the higher frequencies, but both options sounded great. On a side note, I'm excited about that hipshot option being standard now and you guys offering bridges.

[@WAMilyFamily]

I can hear a difference on my speakers. The universal route gave it a more open tone. When I was listening to the clean tones, I was wondering if the universal route may make the dirty sounds less clear but they still had heaps of clarity. I'd be going for a universal route for sure.

[@Thirdgen83]

Nonsense.

[@jm71681]

I heard it too. Sounded like the guitar literally gained a soundhole 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Thirdgen83]

@@jm71681 You couldn't tell the difference in a blind listening test.

[@s.corner8138]

Full of it.

[@Thirdgen83]

@@s.corner8138 Yes, you definitely are.

[@slaytanic777]

I personally have been using the universal route for a while just for the changeable options. Single hum at the bridge or hh are still my favorite on s style guitar.

[@PhpGtr]

Hey sweet explorer on the wall. I have a very important question for Warmoth: Why can't I order a true hockey-stick profile on my headstock anymore? It's got a "nub" on it now. I have a print catalog from ages ago that showed the true hockey stick. What gives? Anyhow, great video! I always wondered this. I hear a HUGE difference in the clean tones and, to my surprise, I like the universal route better. And of course, on the dirty tones, I liked the opposite. Guess I have to buy more bodies...

[@tapilaha]

minimal difference… seems universal routing had little bit more of an open midrange

[@PaulMcCaffreyfmac]

The 'swimming pool' seemed to add what we are always led to believe a working vibrato would on a Strat. To be honest I would expect my mood to make more of a perceptible difference from one day to the next.

[@robcerasuolo9207]

Thanks for making these videos. I think MAYBE I heard a point or two of volume difference in a couple of places, but that would be on a scale of zero to a hundred--thus, very insignificant. There was a stated difference in playing in a couple of spots that might explain this. I listened to this video on good gaming headphones that I'm very familiar with, and after watching a few videos with mostly dialogue. In any case, I expected to hear no difference at all. I suspected that if there could ever be any perceptible difference between the two routs, the pickguard would strongly minimize this, if not outrightly eliminate the difference. This would also have been an ACOUSTIC sound difference, not an ELECTRICAL signal difference. I think this suspicion was proven to be correct here. If the pickguard were to be removed, but the guitar not amplified electrically and only played acoustically--which is, of course, not something anyone would likely do--then a very small difference could possibly be heard in the room. This still wouldn't make more than a tiny percent-of-a-percent difference electrically--or so I would expect. It would've been, or would be, interesting to see this included as part of this test, or a future one. I think this video is evidence enough that the swimming pool is that much more cool. Thanks again!

[@martgryfny]

Thanks for this test Aaron. I think you should try to change the ash tray on the Marshall amp. Now it sounds too dark. Is it painted with poly?

[@ricardbennett6487]

all you with your great ears!!

[@peterschaefer1665]

I noticed that the volume knob location is unique as well on that s style guitar. Not sure if I have seen that option before??

[@paulhudson2293]

Does it make much in the way of weight difference with the universal route rather the SSS route? I've often thought that if you're going to use a pickguard, then a swimming pool route is easily the best option on the body. Why limit yourself in the future?

[@markf5229]

I bought a universal route from Warmoth in 2021. It is lighter, has more focused mids, and is more resonant than my other strats. I would choose it again over other options.

[@michaelcottle6270]

Definitely subtle, but I consistently preferred swimming pool - which is reassuring because I like keeping my options open

[@sub-jec-tiv]

Don’t forget to get married before you turn 40

[@michaelcottle6270]

@@sub-jec-tiv Thanks for your concern, I did.

[@twenty3electronics]

I hear more low mids from the SSS route. Very slight semi hollow resonance from the universal. Treble and upper mids more forward on the universal. SSS more balanced. Extremely subtle, but audible on real speakers

[@DoppelgangerShockwave]

I could hear the difference. The universal routing gives the pickups a more resonating sound than a traditional routing because there is less wood preventing the pickups from vibrating at their fullest frequency. Both sound good, though.

[@highinthe80sband]

There is a difference when you play, but not one that most people hear. I have both routes and I notice as a player that the universal route has some give to the pickguard when you are tapping your fingers on the pickguard. On the universal route, the pickguard has some slight movement when your 2nd and 3rd fingers are hitting it while strumming. It is subtle, but I notice it. The SSS or HSS route don't move at all. Tonally, they are pretty close as everyone has noted.

[@martymcfly002]

It's definitely subtle, but I do hear a slight difference. The universal route is just slightly less "nasally", a little smoother. I preferred it over the traditional routing.

[@andrewlong7578]

The difference seems more subtle recorded. I have played several Grosh guitars against similar Fenders and those with trems always had something extra akin to a semi-hollow. Hardtails had less bass and more airy high end which made them sound more like their Fender trem counterparts which is only a benefit in my mind.

[@shaunw9270]

One of my Strats has the swimming pool rout . Only really noticeable playing it unplugged if that makes sense .

[@russellzauner]

I think most people given a blind test would notice more of a difference in performance with mounting direct to body vs on a pickguard. Only if you completely hollow a guitar do you break a lot of the regenerative coupling between the body and strings.

[@MonsterGuitars]

I expected there to be no difference, and there was virtually none. You could never tell by playing a guitar if it was a swimming pool rout or not. You'd have to do this A/B test and listen carefully. I actually preferred the sound with the swimming pool rout. It seemed a bit fuller, with extra low mids. Barely!

[@waynegram8907]

SRV Yellow Strat had a very wide and deep swimming pool which suppose to make a very hollowbody type tone like a 335? have you looked into this?

[@SolToSeedFarm]

To my ear it sounds a little more snappy with the universal route, like there’s slightly more high end. I like the tone of both but prefer the universal.

[@limpneckmike]

I think it would be cool if the swimming pool option was available on more body types. For example, a Tele Deluxe has a pickgaurd that covers that entire area , so theoretically you could easily have as many pickup combinations on that as you could on a Strat.

[@markferguson3745]

I've routed out deep undercuts for weight releif, and if anything, I think it's added additional resonance.Worry about the pickups , nut , bridge and tuners; I find it strange that a lot of players are worried about the wood that the guitar is made of, but never took the time to learn about speakers or cabs, - far more important to the final sound.

[@alexzaytsevguitar]

Can you make a video about warmoth scalloped options?

[@gonzalooliveraalves]

My cheap strat copy came with a pool rout, and it always felt like an advantage for me. The guitar is nice and light, and I know that I can put any quirky pickup layout I want.

[@joeburke9061]

I've always wondered what the difference in weight is between SSS and a universal rout. Did you happen to weigh the body before and after?

[@thseed7]

Is the universal route big enough for a P90? Always assumed, but never asked. Love the Hipshot Bridge option add too. 🤘

[@Bamabluesboy]

I can hear a difference and surprisingly I liked the swimming pool route better.

[@pezzye]

Sounds really good,,, but the position of the tuner on the headstock and the right angle jack caused so many problems, ,hahahahahahahahahaha 😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😘😘 very cool brother

[@mikeblue385]

the universal route seems to have more clarity. now do one about chambered bodies and harmonics. they seem weaker in my chambered strat. i have two warmoth strats.

[@timguitar862]

I don’t think there’s any difference between pickguard mounted routes. But I would like to see you compare pickguard vs body mounted

[@mike42356]

Whether it was the playing or the mod, I can head a difference in tests 2 and 3. The pool routed one has more ringing and is more nasal, fatter and slightly muddier. The difference is quite evident at the strumming parts in test 3: the normal route guitar sounds clearly more scooped and cleaner. The little difference it makes IMO makes sense with the slightly bigger cavity, it walks a little way to a thinline. Other than that, the pickguard hovers over the body in both cases, being fixed to only at its perifery. I would be very interested to hear the difference between same guitar with pickups fixed the tree ways: pickguard, pickup ring and screwed onto the wood.

[@CocoKoi321]

I find that it kills mids sorta, the wood touching the pick gaurd that's around the pickups I find is where the vibration of the guitar gets most of the mids It DOES basically turn it into a semi hollow sorta sound I believe it's best you could still try to route all for humbuckers but make the wood lines very narrow under the gaurd, it'd still retain the universal features but keep some of the qualities of sss style I'm sure that it'd be extremely apparently bad sounding if was routed harder with a back route for the tremolo, then it'd sound VERY HOLLOW and dead

[@itzed]

Would like to have known the weight before and after the rout.

[@rickyjoeshippyful]

Of all of the comparison videos that I've watched, often if there is a difference between two subtle changes to a guitars hardware, the tonal change is always quite subtle as well. Often you can listen closely and hear a difference but I think it takes several of those subtle changes to make any real difference overall, especially in a live situation where these subtleties would be lost imo.

[@Relayer6a]

If you are looking at it from the audience's perspective then to be honest 99% don't listen, don't know what to listen for, and couldn't care less. If you are the player though and it feels/sounds different then you are going to play differently. In the end don't make decisions on equipment based on what others hear or don't hear. Make it on your own preferences.

[@mplsmark222]

I am a luthier and have an opinion on these kind of experiments. I suggest the very first thing to do is put on a new set of strings, or at least loosen the strings and leave the instruments detuned for awhile. The reason I would do this is the instrument always sounds different if you loosen and retune the strings or of course replace them. Plus, old strings wear at the frets, when you take them off and put them back on, they never line up the same as they were. This can make some pitches sound buzzy ect. I just try to eliminate as many variables as possible to get a fair comparison. I’d do this for any change one might make when trying to tell if there is a difference in sound. Then again, if a person has a bias one way or another, they might just hear what they want to hear.

[@warmoth]

Both versions of the guitar got a fresh set of strings.

[@Mark70609]

Copper shielding in a swimming pool route would have been an easy exercise. Given, hum and noise is the common biggest problem with vintage style Strats. People (Eric Clapton) have shielded their guitars to reduce noise, but does this come at a price tone wise? I believe the new Clapton Strats used by Clapton didn’t use wood screws to attach the neck to the body, but inserts into the neck and bolts going into the inserts. This has been a topic on whether this affects tone. Vintique offered this to Tele style guitars, along with their stainless steel bridges, knobs, Danny Gatton was associated with Vintique for a while.

[@CruesLife]

Will the swimming pool route fit Jazzmaster pickups?

[@brianbrazil4426]

I noticed that on the tests where you played the larger routing one that it sounded a little more resonant in the lower frequency range. It might not make any difference in a live band setting though. It's probably only perceived by the guitar player holding it at the time.

[@stratolestele7611]

I thought I remember hearing John Suhr (unless it was just Grosh) also say that he preferred the tone of a swimming pool route, but would do it however customer wants.

[@Fox4ever111]

Guys I don’t know what the budget is like but it would be cool to have you do a weekly video atleast maybe spot lighting the showcase