Did Brahmins Really Monopolize Education in Ancient India? | Pankaj Saxena

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

*A 17th century Italian traveller's account of Indian schools* : “They [Indians] are particularly anxious and attentive to instruct their children to read and write. Education with them is an early and an important business in every family. Many of their women are taught to read and write. *The Brahmins are generally the schoolmasters, but any of the castes may, and often do practice teaching.* The children are instructed without violence, and by a process peculiarly simple. The pupils are the monitors of each other, and the characters are traced with a rod, or the finger on the sand. Reading and writing are acquired at the same time, and by the same process…” Pietro Della Valle, 1623, Italian traveller to India

[@anshultripathi6925]

Thanks Vijnana Bandhu . Finally a found another person who is also greatly passionate and didn't succumb to the foolishness going around . You are really a learned person who talks with facts and Indic attitude . Kindly contact me if looking to collaborate on any project .Would love to be its part !!

[@indianinvasion5499]

The principal underlaying caste is fundamentally different frim the principal underlying varna.not only are they different, but they are also fundamentally opposed --- (Annihilation of Caste, B.R.Ambedkar, P.59) We shall be well advised to recall at the outset that the Hindu society, in common with other societies, was composed of classes and the earliest known are the (1) Brahmins or the priestly class; (2) the Kshatriya, or the military class; (3) the Vaishya, or the merchant class and (4) the Shudra, or the artisan and menial class. Particular attention has tobe paid to the fact that this was essentially a class system, in which individuals, when qualified, could change their class, and therefore classes did change their personnel--- .(Castes In India, Dr. B.R.Ambedkar, P17-18) Varna and Caste are two very different concepts. Varna is based on the principle of each according to his worth, while Caste is based on the principle of each according to his birth. The two are as distinct as chalk is from cheese--- (Annihilation of Caste, B.R.Ambedkar, P.93)

[@PastPresented]

Over 150 years after 1623, British education began to be expanded beyond the upper and middle classes by adopting versions of the Indian monitor system (e.g. the "Madras system")

[@swapnilsom7405]

@VijnanaBandhu which book is this? Name please

[@PastPresented]

@@swapnilsom7405 It's complicated ! As it turns out, that quotation is not from 1623, but it is the introduction, written about 1823 (by retired East India Company officer Alexander Walker) to a completely different quotation by Pietro Della Valle, from section V of Letter 5 of the Indian section of "Viaggi di Pietro della Valle il pellegrino" (translated into English as "Travels of Pietro Della Valle in India"). The system described by Pietro is not quite the same as the "monitor" system explained by Walker, but is based more on teamwork: the adult teacher explains something, then the pupils divide into groups of about 4 and practice writing it in sand, correcting each other where necessary and simply wiping over the sand when the writing needs to be erased.

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

“If a good system of agriculture, unrivalled manufacturing skill, a capacity to produce whatever can contribute to convenience or luxury; *schools established in every village for teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic; the general practice of hospitality and charity among each other; and above all a treatment of the female sex full of confidence, respect, and delicacy,* if all these are among the signs which denote a civilised people, then the Hindus are not inferior to the nations of Europe; and if civilisation is to become an article of trade between the two countries, I am convinced that this country [England] will gain by the import cargo. “ Thomas Munro, governor of Madras Presidency 1820-27.

[@bornfreetreks]

ChandraGupta Maurya became the king of India, he was not a Kshtriya by birth..

[@anshultripathi6925]

Eagerly waiting for this session !! Please clearly stage from scratch the difference between BrahMIN and BrahMAN once and for all. Do also touch upon the untouched taboos related to all this Brahminphobia and hatred against them in popular media and culture. Really looking forward to this meaningful session !!

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

'Brahman' refers to the supreme consciousness. What we refere to as 'ब्रह्म' (as in 'parbrahm parmeshwar') in Hindi is written as 'Brahman' in English. This has something to do with the peculiarity of English phonetics. Whereas 'Brahmin' refers to the _jati_ . Then there is 'Brahma' who is a deity with 3 heads and is the creator of the universe. As regards Brahminphobia, it is really the job of christian missionaries. Frankly, the muslims have historically not so much abused Brahmins as have the Christian missionaries. Since pretty early on, the missionaries decided that if they could bring down the prestige of the Brahmins, who were the most educated and the most respected of peoples of India, they could then easily convince other Hindus to convert. This project of Brahmin demonization is actually a communal project of propagating Hindu hate whose ultimate aim is conversion to christianity. For this, dalit/Bahujan politics has become the favourite tool for the missionaries. Look closely at the religious background of the most vitriolic anti-Brahmin propagandists in the social media as well as outside. You will find that almost a third of them are actually christians (with mostly Hindu names like Kancha Ilaiya, Arundhati Roy, etc.). You will notice that these people have no concern with their own community but all their time and energy is devoted to 'reforming' the Hindus by abusing their faith, texts, gods, traditions, and practices. the immediate aim of Brahmin phobia is to convince nonBrahmins that hinduism is the religion of Brahmins alone, so that they may wholesale or in succession quit being Hindu and convert to christianity. you will notice that in all academic conferences/ seminars on caste, casteism, untouchability, etc. in India and abroad, there is a very enthusiastic participation of christians in general and the church in particular. On many occasions, the church directly organizes or funds these seminars. this is especially ture of south Indian states like Andhra and Tamil Nadu, where the church is the most aggressive in propagating Hindu hate via Brahminphobia. In Tamil Nadu, the situation has reached a point where Chrisitan fanatics have started directly killing Hindu sadhus just for practicing their religion or for refusing to convert or for making people aware of conversion tactics. Missionaries openly call temples as 'abode of satan', print derogatory posters, calenders, etc. where Hindu symbols are insulted in Tamil Nadu.

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

look at another testimony of a British administrator (who by the way was pretty nasty on Indians) on the general state of society in pre-colonial india. Notice how he emphasizes the high level of education among Indians. If only Brahmins were allowed in education, then do you think that India's image as the guru of the world would have been built. Indeed India was considered so not by Indians, but by foreigners over millennia. “If a good system of agriculture, unrivalled manufacturing skill, a capacity to produce whatever can contribute to convenience or luxury; schools established in every village for teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic; the general practice of hospitality and charity among each other; and above all a treatment of the female sex full of confidence, respect, and delicacy, if all these are among the signs which denote a civilised people, then the Hindus are not inferior to the nations of Europe; and if civilisation is to become an article of trade between the two countries, I am convinced that this country [England] will gain by the import cargo. “ Thomas Munro, governor of Madras Presidency 1820-27. Even in the hadees, one finds the prophet of Islam saying that he can feel the cool wind of knowledge blowing from India. See what Voltaire, the eminent French enlightenment figure had to say about India : “I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges, - astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc... It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganges to learn geometry...But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins' science not been long established in Europe” - Voltaire

[@drrmdebnath8356]

Do not know about ancient India. For today's India read Amartya Sen's book : India, development, deprivation. Study also West Bengal case and Manusanghita. Har Har Mahadev Shivay Nomoh Nomo Shivay

[@Crymeareva]

@@vijnanabandhu2167 🙏 Whatever you said is actually true

[@manumohan83]

Brahmins wasted thousands of years for India, British had to come to bring technology to save India.

[@bornfreetreks]

Chakaya had been looking for a boy capable of uniting and fending off enemies... Ashok the grandson of Chandragupta Maurya became the greatest king..

[@shubhampandi9561]

Chup chutiye ashok Chandragupta ka grandson nahi to

[@pradyumnahebbar2496]

@@shubhampandi9561 , before cross questioning others, please check our Indian History, don't judge without checking the facts. On top of it you have used abusive words for this, this is not acceptable. Samrat Ashoka is the Grandson of Samrat Chandragupta Maurya!

[@TheSridharantkr]

Brahmin teachers have played a very important role some of our most respected leaders such as Bharat Ratnas Bhimrao Ambedkar and President Abdul Kalam. A Brahmin family in Ramanathapuram T.N, mentored Honourable Abdul Kalamji and Sri.Bhimrao Ambedkar was tutored by a Karadi Brahmin Teacher Ambatkar. In fact Sri.Bhimrao assumed the surname Ambedkar by taking the surname of his teacher.

[@jyotivyas9286]

Yes👍🏼✌🏼🔥❤️🙏🏻💪🏼 I am A Brahmin 🙏🏻🕉️🙏🏻✌🏼😌 A Diligent One...also Doing Dhyan Sadhna...to become Brahman🙏🏻🕉️🏹🙏🏻Hari Om Tatsatt 🧘🏻‍🙏🏻🕉️

[@jyotivyas9286]

@Aditya Kumar Pandey Bhrata Shri🙏🏻🕉️ Actually I am Doing Shram...to Enlighten Myself...to become Original and Authentic brahmin ..not becoz I simply born into brhmn kul..no..I am Expressing... Bhrahm ko jisne grahan kar liye..= Brah Mann...🙏🏻🕉️🙏🏻✌🏼🙏🏻 Jai Sanatan Hindu Dharm kee 🚩✌🏼🙏🏻🕉️ Jai Shree Raam jee kee 🙏🏻🕉️🏹🔥✌🏼🚩🌾

[@Sunny-rh6ik]

Brahmins 👇 Rani Laxmi Bai Bajirao Peshwa Mangal Pandey Savarkar Sachin Tendulkar For those who every time brings Apj Abdul Kalam when you criticize Islam

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

@Manish Erande isn't rani lakshmi bhai more indian than you and me? Isn't bajirao pandey more indian than you and me? 🤔

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

@Manish Erande don't be a bigot 🤦‍♂️

[@ratusajjanshetty2405]

What

[@shrikantshringarputale9660]

It's heartening to see you deliberating on such scholarly subject. Wish your tribe grows. There is so much more in our ancient literature and the way of living. Yes, the Brahmins were selfless, leading a very austere life, and would survive on meager resources. While begging for alms also, he was restricted to go beyond the fifth host. Whatever he gets is not stored, the prepared food is shared with the cow and the guest, till the guests gastronomical needs are fully satiated, he and his family will feed only on what would be remaining. Who would like to lead such a life full of restrictions ? - Shrikant Shringarputale

[@ramanbharti1]

Whatever Brahmins did to society was great but with knowledge comes ignorance and sense of superiority complex....They promoted untouchability in society that led to rise of Islam, Christianity, Budhism, and other religions.. They stuck more to knowledge but lost the essence of it....They kept on looking at the fingure the Vedas were point to something higher, rather than where they were pointing to. which led to downfall. At the end they lost respect and also spirituality....Just worshiping in temple is not spirituality. Infact working on your consicousness growth is.

[@rajeshkandukuri1042]

@@ramanbharti1 Caste itself is a foreign word came from casta in portuguese.. The caste discrimination now is direct result of British's macaulay education system which is inclusive to only brahmins excluding all others... Before that there used to be gurukuls all over India..Infact majority of the students were sudras like upto 70% with brahmin/shudra teachers in every gurukulam in every village before brits introduced macaulay system of ed by banning gurukuls in 1830s..nd later society was drastically changed nd shudras like Ambedkar (born in 1891)had to face discrimination..even after independence we still follow the same system.. That's why caste system became more rigid.. But there is no caste system in Indonesian hindhus right..Acc to our scriptures varna is based on qualities nd skills (bhagavadgita 4 13)..evryone until 18yrs old is a shudra..But we were never taught these right..nobody knows this..we were made to shun away from our roots(vedas,bhagavadgita) by our politicians an well.. Refer dharampal's book The beautiful tree for more insights into these statistics of how our gurukulams used to be..He wrote that book by taking references from surveys conducted by collectors like Thomas Munroe at that time.. Even today there r thousands of dalit nd non-brahmin priests all over india trained by hindu organisations..bcoz these organisations unlike common people like us knew varna is based on skills nd not birth..

[@harishjethwa]

Sir, thank-you, for the Good discussion. It is the British and later on the communist that has abused the cast system and the brahmins. We must recall our glorious past and the good systems . Thanks once again.

[@ColtraneTaylor]

It's only because of the communists and socialists that bacward castes in South India have basic rights, denied to their counterparts in the Hindi belt. You are only showing that you don't care about them and only care about your stupid Brahmin bullcrap. Anti-national.

[@rahuldeb3783]

I was waiting for this, I want more on brahmins

[@alokkumar3799]

@paul w Brahmins didn't help Islamists/British. "If it were not for the opposition of the Brahmins, we should have them all (= Indians) embracing the religion of Jesus Christ." - Francis Xavier. Brahmins saved Hindu culture.

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

@@alokkumar3799 but there are Brahmins who treated did caste discrimination in the medevial ages too. But we cannot blame the whole Brahmin community as such for this discrimination. There were good Brahmins too.

[@Crymeareva]

@@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan EXACTLY. This black and white leftist distorted history is dum. There were many good brahmans and society was much more inclusive and balanced in ancient and medieval era, which unfortunately got corrupted later

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

@R K caste is today more of a politics than people follow it. There are so many converts to other religion who still want to cater to their caste but this is due to benifits. Answer to your question= they will go for marriage without caste. What else can they do?

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

@@Crymeareva alwars tamil saints were Brahmins and they had brahmin members from all caste society.

[@jasodhasharma]

Amazing talk, thank you so much for that. Just one request, as we would want to reach to maximum people, may I request to do these talks in Hindi.

[@arunpandeykedarnath]

No, history witness Balmiki Vyas Apala Gargi Maitreyi Bharat was super educated, but in Islamic and British invasion ruined Bharatiye education culture and society.

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

'In the indigenous vernacular schools, ‘parents of good caste do not hesitate to send their children to schools conducted by teachers of an inferior caste and even of a different religion. . . . this is true of the Chandal, and other low caste teachers enumerated.’ - William Adam, British Baptist Minister appointed by the colonial govt to do a census on native schools of Bengal, Reports on the State of Education in Bengal 1835 and 1838 page 228.

[@pavitraranjanswain4010]

Vijnana Bandhu : Bengal was enlightened that time.

[@mpramarao57]

In fact , temples and priests in good olden days were the centre of education, knowledge, information and unity. It was the responsibility of the society to take care of priests, important bhramins who were involved in the society's protection. One has to realise that bhramins along with other soldiers had participated in wars to protect this country. Muslim rulers, British , Russian communists wanted to conquer this country, but found bhramins were the main obstacle for their objective. Bhramins were the protectors of the society along with the rulers (. One would certainly come across the rulers were from other communities , an example Kirishna Devara belonged to neither bhramins or Kastriyas) . There they started malinging bhramins to get control over the great Bharat as bhramins stood like hardest rock to thwart their motives.

[@AnandRajappan]

@paul w what control?! Like the pope were secularism was formed.

[@himdude9637]

hum daliton k sath jehadi ki hukumat ne sazish ki. kamzor banaya 700 saal jehadi sur raj kar k jab tum jaise k purkhe ko gulam bana kar muslim paida kar sakta tha to dalit ki sthiti bhi sudhar sakta tha. Yahi kaam 70 saal tak congress karti rahi. Hum inki chal samjh gaye. Hindu samaj se mil kar hi hamara punrudhar ho sakta hai.

[@आर्यरवि]

You just work hard and gain immense knowledge.

[@krishnabalab2697]

You are very correct mere bhai..

[@huntingman9262]

Chutiya sale , tumhare baba shab to kud bolo ki in sare dalito ki angrejo ka gulam rakho

[@himdude9637]

@@huntingman9262 kyu tum kya muhammad ka Samvidhan follow karta hai ya baba sahab ka

[@vidyaiyer2992]

Very enlightening..Amazing speech... Thank you.

[@shreyastasamal3549]

Your explanation clears a lot of misconceptions around the caste system and many other topics.

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

"The Hindoos and Mahomedans, as well as the different castes of the Hindoos, a few of the lowest excepted, mix together for the purpose of education without the slightest reluctance or inconvenience." - Mountstuart Elphinstone , governor of Bombay presidency

[@RajuN]

@paul w what you learnt is a fabricated history.

[@alpeshmittal3779]

Few of the lowest excepted!! There it is. Also only Brahmin can teach Vedas which was considered supreme knowledge, which in reality consists prayers and rituals for sacrifice. Philosophy wise upnishada are most matured books.

[@alpeshmittal3779]

Check "Allah Upnishada" to know great work of Brahmin s that you didn't learn

[@alpeshmittal3779]

@@RajuN Check "Allah Upnishada" to know great work of Brahmin s that you didn't learn

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

@@alpeshmittal3779 your concern for having the perfect social code in ancient India is much appreciated. Do you also apply the same level of intense scrutiny to the Bible, the West, & christianity ? do you for ex, apply the same standards of morality (which you are judging Brahmins by) to the hallowed saints of christendom ? or is this just a way of deriding hindus' faith inorder to promote christian conversions ?

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

Alwars were tamil Brahmins with saints from all communities ( upper caste to shudras). Alwars are early tamil Brahmins.

[@shalomjoseph5125]

This is something I have to know. I myself have blamed particular class for power control in society. Would be happy to be proven wrong.

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

"The Hindoos and Mahomedans, as well as the different castes of the Hindoos, a few of the lowest excepted, mix together for the purpose of education without the slightest reluctance or inconvenience." - Mountstuart Elphinstone , governor of Bombay, Appendix to the Report from the Select Committee of the House of Commons on the Affairs of the East India Company 1832, 341

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

'In the indigenous vernacular schools, ‘parents of good caste do not hesitate to send their children to schools conducted by teachers of an inferior caste and even of a different religion. . . . this is true of the Chandal, and other low caste teachers enumerated.’ - William Adam, British Baptist Minister appointed by the colonial govt to do a census on native schools of Bengal, Reports on the State of Education in Bengal 1835 and 1838 page 228.

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

“They [Indians] are particularly anxious and attentive to instruct their children to read and write. Education with them is an early and an important business in every family. *Many of their women are taught to read and write. The Brahmins are generally the schoolmasters, but any of the castes may, and often do practice teaching.* The children are instructed without violence, and by a process peculiarly simple. The pupils are the monitors of each other, and the characters are traced with a rod, or the finger on the sand. Reading and writing are acquired at the same time, and by the same process…” Pietro Della Valle, 1623, Italian traveller to India

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

“If a good system of agriculture, unrivalled manufacturing skill, a capacity to produce whatever can contribute to convenience or luxury; *schools established in every village for teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic; the general practice of hospitality and charity among each other; and above all a treatment of the female sex full of confidence, respect, and delicacy,* if all these are among the signs which denote a civilised people, then the Hindus are not inferior to the nations of Europe; and if civilisation is to become an article of trade between the two countries, I am convinced that this country [England] will gain by the import cargo. “ Thomas Munro, governor of Madras Presidency 1820-27.

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

for a full treatment of this topic, do read Dharampal's excellently researched book _The Beautiful Tree_ . And this one hour lecture by Prof Michel Danino is also very informative. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqe3fnh7n9lnmMU

[@roserosarosen5637]

Waiting, thank you 🙏

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

That seeman groups in tamil nadu is spreading hate against Brahmins and Hinduism.

[@roserosarosen5637]

@@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan Yes ji, Seemaan and Dravida parties. They've been doing it for too long..all initiated by EVR

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

@@roserosarosen5637 yes and they are spreading misconceptions about Hinduism and Brahmins. The tamil nadu archeological state department is run by dravida parties. The former scientist of tamil nadu archeological department Mr mahadevan irventhom himself was a pro DK, and he worked for some Christian college. So how can we trust their research. They themselves are biased and corrupt. We need a Hindu party like bjp in tamil nadu. Otherwise our Hindu culture will be doomed.

[@roserosarosen5637]

@@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan True ji, dravida parties seem to be pro Christian..they are the reason for much atrocities against Hinduism and Hindus in Tamil Nadu.. But it's quite a releive to see a new wave in favour of BJP in Tamil Nadu..

[@roserosarosen5637]

@Aditya Kumar Pandey Hopefully

[@shivkumar]

A very objective and comprehensive examination of the issue and demolished many misconceptions

[@भवशङ्करदेशिकमेशरणम्]

Much Needed Talk.... Thank You Sangam Talks...

[@nkmahale]

In USA The White House was mostly built by slaves who were prohibited from learning even the English alphabet or learn to read the Bible. Most of the real work is done ny laboring class who were classified as Shudras. Jyoti Rao was free to learn things related to flowers but was not permitted to learn what he wanted to learn. In a world class university in USA, which I attended, most Indians, way disproportionate to their demographic representation in India, were brahmins. Caste/Jati structure not only discriminated against Shudras in ancient days but it continued well up to British Raj, and affect of that were observable well into independent India. What an obscure Rishi might have said against such discrimination, and there were some, the actual practice worked against Shudras. Just read accounts by Jyoti Rao Phule and his wife Savitri. Theoretically Vishwamitra could become a brahmin but the story of Vishwamitra shows how that process was loaded against such transformations even for a Kshatriya let alone a Shudra.

[@nidhi3568]

Thankyou for this topic

[@poornimaramesh5709]

Beautiful Talk!

[@sanjeevtripathi6246]

When Abrahamic religion come to a region that region met with a dark age, that's why we have dark age in Europ when Christianity came there same is true to Arab

[@devkishore1349]

Europe was in dark age for some time. but they recovered. It looks like you haven't travelled aborad, otherwise you wont make such a comment. India was in dark age for most of the time in last 1500 years and its in dark age even now. it has one of the worst social/economic/scientific indicators in the world.

[@sanjeevtripathi6246]

@@devkishore1349 you are correct and European and JNU both forget to add this in your textbook. For your Kind information, I have not only traveled but also went through their textbook. Also gone through the genesis of the bible.

[@devkishore1349]

@@sanjeevtripathi6246 if you have travelled then where did you find dark age in Europe? Those societies have more freedom, they take care of all of their citizens, have excellent medical care, unemployment benefits, people help each other and have more civic sense. Just because they follow Jesus and you follow Neem Karoli baba doesn't make Europe to be in dark age.

[@vijayavani8003]

We can not compare study of Vedas to study of Engineering or Medical or any other course .Vedas contain very subtle knowledge and nowhere it is stated that Vedas are meant for a particular community. But what I have found is - when we invite people to attend classes on Vedas, nobody shows interest,except a very few Brahmins . Even if others attend,they discontinue after one or two days.Before attempting to learn Vedic knowledge, it is prescribed that one should have Sadhana chatustaya sampannata i.e Viveka,Vairagya, mind/sense control etc,and mumukshtwa(eagerness for Moksha) . Then only one is considered as Adhikari and to become such Adhikari,there is no caste or gender restriction .

[@Maharashtra_Dharma]

"Shivaji sways by the Brahmins" (Ref:- A New account of East India and Persia, Vol II, page 66, by Dr. John Fryer) In the note it is written:- *"The influence of Brahmins on Shivaji was notorious".* _John Fryer was a contemporary traveller during Shivaji Maharaj's time._

[@SBALAK9753]

Till the British conquered India and controlled education the entire society had good education. As outlined may be not vedic education. Even in that there are instances of people who are not brahmins becoming great authorities. Sage Valmiki was not a Brahmin but it was he who wrote the Ramayana. Under the British the Brahmins who lost all their old means of survival by getting alms, support from Kings/wealthy nobles etc took to teaching and dominated. The British destroyed the entire system including crafts that were in competition with their exports. It is not to say that preventing anyone from studying Vedas is correct. But to condemn entire Hinduism based on some old practice is wrong. If so one should similarly criticize other religions for their past misbehaviors. Neither Islam or Christianity spread because of non violence and understanding of other religions or cultures. It is time we move forward and even if we examine the past sometimes even giving some reasons for that it is important to move forward and move with times. Cast system is now redundant and it is time we educate all Hindus about the fundamentals of the religions applicable for todays world. On that Hinduism has much to offer as a way of life incorporating arts, medicine, culture, health and belief of universal tolerance. No other religion incorporates basic needs of society within itself.

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

'In the indigenous vernacular schools, *‘parents of good caste do not hesitate to send their children to schools conducted by teachers of an inferior caste and even of a different religion. . . . this is true of the Chandal, and other low caste teachers enumerated.’* - William Adam, British Baptist Minister appointed by the colonial govt to do a census on native schools of Bengal, _Reports on the State of Education in Bengal 1835 and 1838_ page 228.

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

Please. Can you mail me the quotes of voltyre and all. So that i can use it as evidence while I counter anti Hindus. My mobile doesn't have the tech to copy your post from you tube comments. Thru mail I can copy it. Thank you👉[e-mail]

[@shreyan1698]

For your next Talk, please make a video on the topic, "Were women really denied education in ancient India?" Our history syllabus carries the propaganda that our culture is patriarchal and education was dominated by men, please debunk this.

[@alpeshmittal3779]

Read manusmriti your self.answer is Yes.

[@shreyan1698]

@@alpeshmittal3779 Yes but in the Vedas there have been instances of learned women (rishikas) debating against men so it means that they must've been educated (e.g, Maharishika Gargi, Maitreyi etc.)

[@shreyan1698]

@paul w No hate here, get out

[@shreyan1698]

@Banishree Mohanta oh yeah Ubhaya Bharati, thanks 4 reminding me 😊

[@sureshab3852]

@@alpeshmittal3779 Have you read manu smriti yourself?

[@vijnanabandhu2167]

*WHO REALLY BROUGHT CASTE DISCRIMINATION TO INDIAN SCHOOLS ?* 'In the indigenous vernacular schools, ‘parents of good caste do not hesitate to send their children to schools conducted by teachers of an inferior caste and even of a different religion. . . . this is true of the Chandal, and other low caste teachers enumerated.’ - William Adam, British Baptist Minister appointed by the colonial govt to do a census on native schools of Bengal, _Reports on the State of Education in Bengal 1835 and 1838, page 228.

[@ramang5400]

Not allowing a leather worker inside a temple the practice of sitting on processed deer skin was quoted. The dear skin used in meditation is processed and the associated bad effects like pollution etc. But the case of a person working in raw leather is different He carries the pollution with him - even health hazard . This is the logic behind prohibiting such a person working with raw leather from going into a temple

[@tejass9109]

Dai maama nalla pulugura da nee

[@devkishore1349]

Are you crazy. If leather is washed then its clean. but if a person takes bath and cleans himself throughly, he is still polluted. your mind is polluted and nothing can wash/process it.

[@indianinvasion5499]

The principal underlaying caste is fundamentally different frim the principal underlying varna.not only are they different, but they are also fundamentally opposed --- (Annihilation of Caste, B.R.Ambedkar, P.59) We shall be well advised to recall at the outset that the Hindu society, in common with other societies, was composed of classes and the earliest known are the (1) Brahmins or the priestly class; (2) the Kshatriya, or the military class; (3) the Vaishya, or the merchant class and (4) the Shudra, or the artisan and menial class. Particular attention has tobe paid to the fact that this was essentially a class system, in which individuals, when qualified, could change their class, and therefore classes did change their personnel--- .(Castes In India, Dr. B.R.Ambedkar, P17-18) Varna and Caste are two very different concepts. Varna is based on the principle of each according to his worth, while Caste is based on the principle of each according to his birth. The two are as distinct as chalk is from cheese--- (Annihilation of Caste, B.R.Ambedkar, P.93)

[@RajuN]

Really a classic topic. Bless you.

[@RajuN]

@paul w That depends on the spects you wear

[@jyotivyas9286]

Aaj kee Explosive Talk se mujhe Bharosa ho gaya hai kee...kaise Bhrhman ko encash karke...Britishers ne hum bhartiyon ke mano par Shasan kiya..or Bhrhman Varna ko de- fame kar diya kee aaj kee peedhi ko peeche mudkar..phir se Sab Bharat kee Mahan Varna Vyavastha ko Uttam Margon se Samjhna Nitant Avashyak hai..aur Urgent bhee hai🙏🏻🕉️🙏🏻✌🏼🔥🙏🏻 Jai Sanatan Hindu Dharm kee 🚩✌🏼🙏🏻🕉️

[@pitlaman7010]

In TODAY'S WORLD, many wear multiple hats.. "JACK OF ALL TRADES"..and perform diverse responsibilities... No more is it possible to prevent a person perform activities that span across varnas. Part of this above problem is the mentality of KEEPING COSTS TO A MINIMUM.. That said, to reach the same level of the ancient masters in mental capacities, it is ABSOLUTELY essential to follow the training they laid out to achieve that level! As history suggests.. those not following that discipline turned out to be so called rebels... And we see their after effects today... However, the teachers of this exalted discipline MUST ENCOURAGE EACH AND EVERYONE AND LIFT ALL THE INTERESTED practitioners to follow the path with maximum compliance while allowing freedom in thinking!! The MENTALITY OF CUTTING COSTS MUST GO AWAY AND MAXIMIZING SELF POTENTIAL ( With alignment) MUST BE the practice in all sections of the society...

[@jdnmenon899]

Lord Krishna says in Bhagavat Gita Chaturvarnyam maya sristam Guna karma vibhagacha The four classes of the society is created by him(Krishna) and based on qualifications(not by birth) The well educated and the wise known as Brahmin(Brahma jnayate iti brahmana,again not by birth)🙏

[@pavitraranjanswain4010]

Jdn Menon : Who gives certificate to qualification? Any mechanism is there to qualify as Bramhin? Any mechanism is there to qualify as Surdas? Can you give some example by name ?

[@bhavyabaid6290]

@@pavitraranjanswain4010 read shastras vedas do something mathematical or scientific development like charak aryabhatt intellectual u r brahmin Be a warrior ruler mla mp in police in army u r kshtriya doing business shop factory industry u r vaishya do service work u r shudra

[@pavitraranjanswain4010]

Bhavya Baid : Good suggestion. Now people should not rush to USA when there is lot of works to be done here.

[@bhavyabaid6290]

@@pavitraranjanswain4010 are u idiot or what these 4 types of work and people required in all society intellectual rulers business and workers whether USA or india

[@pavitraranjanswain4010]

@@bhavyabaid6290 : I agree. But Idiots go to USA. They may very well go to Ethiopia. But Indians like very easy life to give lecture and call others idiots to hide the inferiority complex. Even after doing doctorate in mathematics they works like sudras till they get green card.

[@Bookingnirvana]

Hi as a proud hindu shall we not own that there were discriminations in the past based on today's principles but that is not a valid comparison..there are numerous stories in our epics too

[@drumstick-marblebag]

Life style is not Hair style. Good saying.

[@sachindivakar632]

He not only talked abt Borned Bramhin but also who choose way towards Become Bramhin -kshatriya-viashya -shudra

[@rohankadam358]

Could a Shudra’s Daughter learn the Vedas if she had started the lifestyle and learning right from the early age under a certain guru? Would she even be accepted by any guru for transmitting the vedas to her?

[@siddharth5922]

All the 4 varnas were equally important. Your are looking at the picture through your present state of mind. Think of time 1000s of years back, all the varnas had specific duties or we can say their duties led to their varnas. Brahmins had duty of knowledge generation. Kshatriya's were protectors. Vaishyas were movers and shakers or wealth generators Shudras were working class Every varna took pride in their varna, and shudras were not untouchables. Most brahmins would beg for food, now where do they got bhiksha from, other brahmins? No, because most of them were at same state, so they got bhiksha from Kshatriya, vaishya or shudra. Who would officiate different ceremonies at homes of shudra? Of course brahmins, so the picture was pretty different than what it is projected. Now coming to your question, yes it is possible for shudra daughter to study vedas. But vedas are and were never books, vedas were shruti and required guru to learn it. Now if guru accepts you, you are good to go. To give you an example Shabri was trained in Brahmgyan by very famous Matang Rishi.

[@rohankadam358]

Sid B great!

[@vaibhavkrupakar240]

To all those watching this, a person who lives a simple lifestyle, lives imparting knowledge, lives without treasures is a brahmin

[@vivavois8966]

No, educated were called Brahman that's why all educated were Brahmans & it looked like that Brahmans controlled education. Just like Valmiki was called a Brahman after he became educated

[@smk2SOA]

@Prathmesh Tiwari Exactly Well said 👏

[@indianinvasion5499]

The principal underlaying caste is fundamentally different frim the principal underlying varna.not only are they different, but they are also fundamentally opposed --- (Annihilation of Caste, B.R.Ambedkar, P.59) We shall be well advised to recall at the outset that the Hindu society, in common with other societies, was composed of classes and the earliest known are the (1) Brahmins or the priestly class; (2) the Kshatriya, or the military class; (3) the Vaishya, or the merchant class and (4) the Shudra, or the artisan and menial class. Particular attention has tobe paid to the fact that this was essentially a class system, in which individuals, when qualified, could change their class, and therefore classes did change their personnel--- .(Castes In India, Dr. B.R.Ambedkar, P17-18) Varna and Caste are two very different concepts. Varna is based on the principle of each according to his worth, while Caste is based on the principle of each according to his birth. The two are as distinct as chalk is from cheese--- (Annihilation of Caste, B.R.Ambedkar, P.93)

[@vivavois8966]

@@indianinvasion5499 varna is indian origin word, caste is foreign origin word. If a person is kshatriya by varna , what would be his caste? It all doesn't make any sense. Brahmin is not priestly only , it means the one who lives within the knowledge of brahmn. The scientists, doctors, teachers, philosophers, astronomers etc all were Brahmans. Hinduism converged the knowledge of everything to the knowledge of brahmn. What is priestly for European is actually science. The hymn in praise of sun god has the speed of light & the nature of light mentioned in rig Veda. Indians weren't aware of all this added information themselves at the time of Ambedkar. This is recent discoveries. So quoting Ambedkar in this context is irrelevant. Even he didn't have this information.

[@sanjeevtripathi6246]

is Raidas a good example of changing vernas.

[@sharavankumar9066]

वंदे मातरम्

[@studyblog2783]

महाभारत में जब द्रोणाचार्य एकलव्य से उसका परिचय पूछते है की वह कौन है ...... तो एकलव्य कहता है हे गुरु श्रेष्ठ , मैं मगध के सर्वसेना प्रमुख (जेनरल) का पुत्र हूँ l इसका मतलब उस समय या तो सभी काष्ठ के लोग सभी पदों में होते थे या तो एकलव्य दलित नहीं था l इसी लिए मेरी प्रार्थना है की काष्ठ में विश्वास ना करे और हिंदू होने पे गर्व करे जय हिंद🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@gopaakrishnanmvenkataraman9129]

Rama went to gurukulam to be initiated so we're other communities many great works in Sanskrit are abbrahmabas Guru is expected to transfer all his Knowledge without any reservation

[@shahnaishadh1]

Read Fa Hien's records states otherwise. Becoming Bhramin was not hereditary at that time.

[@rajeshkandukuri1042]

Caste itself is a foreign word came from casta in portuguese.. The caste discrimination now is direct result of British's macaulay education system which is inclusive to only brahmins excluding all others... Before that there used to be gurukuls all over India..Infact majority of the students were sudras like upto 70% with brahmin/shudra teachers in every gurukulam in every village before brits introduced macaulay system of ed by banning gurukuls in 1830s..nd later society was drastically changed nd shudras like Ambedkar (born in 1891)had to face discrimination..even after independence we still follow the same system.. That's why caste system became more rigid.. But there is no caste system in Indonesian hindhus right..Acc to our scriptures varna is based on qualities nd skills (bhagavadgita 4 13)..evryone until 18yrs old is a shudra..But we were never taught these right..nobody knows this..we were made to shun away from our roots(vedas,bhagavadgita) by our politicians an well.. Refer dharampal's book The beautiful tree for more insights into these statistics of how our gurukulams used to be..He wrote that book by taking references from surveys conducted by collectors like Thomas Munroe at that time.. Even today there r thousands of dalit nd non-brahmin priests all over india trained by hindu organisations..bcoz these organisations unlike common people like us knew varna is based on skills nd not birth

[@ismailmondal3261]

Can lectures be given in Sexuality in Ancient India by renown Scholars?

[@rakeshtej8820]

Don't look it as monopoly it's like patent rights given to every work in the society to the respective families like how WTO is giving intellectual property rights to each product to do bussiness and GI tag as well for particular item and product

[@PrimoPete]

Ever heard of evergreening?

[@znznw]

During Muslim and British rule, Kshatriya King's seem to have neglected education of common persons. In many areas they restricted ownership of land to Brahmin and Kshatriya. This has ruined the vaishya and all other casts.

[@prafuldethe3489]

At in 5 min 28 sec very smartly u said shudras were not prohibited from carving gods on walls.. It's like u r not prohibited to use cement and concrete on walls in present day to make building. Now it's plain wall that time it was carved walls.. But it fact won't change they were merly workers. Brahmins were working as boss.. If shudras were able to be priest in that temples which they carved then I would say yes there was equality.

[@prafuldethe3489]

Natyashastra was a good way of telling vedas. Coz all don't want to learn vedas word by word. But those who wanted for them vedas were not allowed to learn read or listen. So that's what is called monopoly. So u r telling me I will not tell u how to bake cake but I will give u cake u eat it. So whenever u want cake come to me I will give u. Everyone can eat cake now it's not like someone is prohibited. Wow what a way

[@venkateshmurthys9759]

Waiting anxiously. No not at all.

[@AnandRajappan]

It was a good attempt but still can improve on his knowledge on the subject he is speaking and improve on his presentation and choice of words. One need not be a brahmin to become BrahmaGyani , similarly a human born as brahmin may not become a BrahmaGyani. There are stories in Mahabharata were a Brahmin go to a Sudhra to learn Gyanam. So the concepts are completely different. If we say there were issues we should weight it with data and reference. Whether positive or negative. I liked the vasthu purush example that was very well explained. The question and answers were very good. Specially the tough questions 👍

[@prafuldethe3489]

As rightly u said vedas were not books before. Brahmins Or those who had knowledge of veds did not recorded it but just by words gave this knowledge to their own family or kind. They therefore never recorded it as they did not wanted others to learn.

[@ashutiwari6610]

Hindu ko gurukul me padhana chahiye

[@shrikantshringarputale9660]

As an addendum to my earlier comment I wish to add the following. The picture of the Brahmins prevalent today is (1) a result of the insinuated / distorted image created out of hatred, and in may be just a minuscule of cases based on the exceptional bad individuals; (2) all such work is creation of the medieval times and later when the original culture was invaded upon by the barbarian tribals of the middle east. - Shrikant Shringarputale

[@prafuldethe3489]

Again smartly u said that no body was capable or willing to be priest. Then people wants to be begger that choice is easy. Live like untouchable that is easy life. I think you have a very biased perspective. Even kunti putra karna was not allowed to learn dhanorvdiya coz he was not kshtriya so pls don't say all were able to do what they liked

[@Crymeareva]

The karna logic has been explained so many times. How can you not get this simple thing? Also i think you're still not ready to accept that Brahmans(ancient) were different from that of recent birth based brahmins! I hope you're not biased against them

[@Swetamishr]

The Word Ved is actually derived from Bhed भेद.. which means secret behind/of the creation .. or to simplify it ज्ञान knowledge ... coz it is that knowledge which hidden to naked eyes or senses 🙏🚩

[@SK-ro8dn]

Beta- Beti word is derived from Batu of prakrit. Batu means vidyarthi.

[@brAmbedkarvadheemusalmaan]

'Tamil chinthanaiyalar peravai'👈 this particular channel is spreading harmful content sir against jews, Brahmins. There is no citation or evidence in his video.

[@iits2cool]

First there is nothing called as a born bhramin! The current self proclaimed bhramins in India are not the originals, they were normal people who killed the competition by misusing and misquoting the Vedas and scriptures for their own benefit.

[@abcrk1]

Valmiki wrote Ramayan is not a brahmin. British made all school masters then Christians took over...Brahmin is a state of mind and way of living. By birth no one can qualify. Why are we dependent on Western traveler and narratives? If you use your knowledge to earn money /reward one cannot called Brahmin.

[@Crymeareva]

Being Brahman was a responsibility. They lived an austere lives and upheld sanctity of values and dharma. Even in present times, no one takes extra pain to become a learned man and save dharma except few

[@MrDillbud]

You are talking of Shoodras and their punishments.... the Brahmins also, if he/ she strayed away from the Righteous Path,was severely punished.. In fact, the punishment was severest for the Brahmins..for, AS THE INTELLECTUAL STRATA OF SOCIETY... THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TOWARDS themselves and THE SOCIETY AND SELF- DISCIPLINE WAS/ IS MOST STRINGENT...AMONGST THE 4 VARNAS.

[@drchitraarchandran5066]

The brahmins were wearing the holy thread after Upanayanam Some artisans like carpenters, gold smiths and netal smiths wete wearing the holy thread So they also would be taught some mantras for it The vedas also includes sastras teaching tempke buildind , caroentry and working on metals in agamas whuch were taught to them

[@vkavka3160]

Could you please tell despite following rituals brahmins kept their house very dirty. even today Brahmin houses are very unclean or clumsy.

[@vkavka3160]

@jyo my mother's relatives and many friends and acquaintances...

[@weaksupremacy3799]

@@vkavka3160 Understand the meaning of adwaita. Most brahmins are not disgusted by dirt. They are disgusted by dirty behavior of people. Actions play greater role than anything else.

[@Crymeareva]

Some say brahmans were boss, some say they beg, some say they're dirty, some say they won't touch dirt, some say thier houses were dirty, but some say they were rich. Its actually left wing historian who have mish mashed the concept just to disintegrate Hindus. Brahman(Wisdom) has nothing to do with birth. Also, it won't fetch you anything in present time if you consider yourself as brahman(yet brahmans are still working hard for thier dharma and thier motherland).

[@vaibhavkrupakar240]

Brahmins- are a varna, not a race

[@chetanbandekar3338]

IITs are doing same thing😀. Vedas is still difficult to understand and not everyone can understand even after modern means of education available.

[@devkishore1349]

Dont think of everybody as illiterate /stupid. folks can send plane to mars, go to moon, measure the velocity of atom. vedas is just a bunch of superstitions, If there was any real thing in there, India would be the superpower and not one of poorest countries with hardest life on the planet.

[@chetanbandekar3338]

@@devkishore1349 With due respect can you give me one example of superstitions. Even in science, you will see every new theories are coming up which has exactly opposites of ealier theories. what you call old theories superstitions. With level of knowledge explained which cannot be just imagination.

[@devkishore1349]

@@chetanbandekar3338 yajurved says to please Goddess Sarasvati sacrifice a calf to her. Rigveda says Earth is like round disk. Are these science or superstition? There are many such examples. Also fyi, modern Hindus follow more things that are totally opposite of Vedas than that are in accordance with Vedas

[@devkishore1349]

@@chetanbandekar3338 If you are a Hindu and you believe in reincarnations. Then One of the person who wrote those Vedas could be you. If you can't understand these now, do you think you understood it then.

[@chetanbandekar3338]

@@devkishore1349 First of all if you are reading any science book you have to keep your conscious logical mind open, for example if you look at biology so many experiments are being done on live animal, in zoology animal flesh given to wild animal, you might be killing cockroaches/rats in home but after 10000 years someone has objection to it but it is acceptable in presently society. Sacrifice is rituals mainly for warriors where you have to kill your emotions for which you have to sacrifice your dear ones. This is necessary for emotional toughness and person should not run away seeing his dear once dying in battle ground. As it is difficult any normal human being to kill any human or any animal element of God is purposefully introduced which are being still followed in many temples. Ashvmegha Yadnya which is done for conconcured world has same purpose Even you shoukd not expect Modi being vegetarian do flower showing on terrorists. But if you read many vedas you will see animal and non voilence are emphasized. Ayurvedas which is on eating habits which are being followed in Kitchen without reading ayurvedas. As far as I know ancient Rishi and people in India having very good knowledge of earth and planets. You can check ancient statue of Varah avatara where you see earth is carved round. Infact, here map is shown in plane paper. If you see some of our festival are purely based on planatory movement like Makar Sankraniti or Kumbh Mela. In Hindu pnachang can predict planate movement as acurate as computer. Best way to check is to do navgrah pooja, what Pandit use is Supari which is of round shape. After marriage Pandit show Husband and wife to look at two stars in North Arundhati Vashista Rushi, recently it is being discovered that these are twin star system which rotate together like couple. Many things are being taught is in form of stories but we should take meaning of stories not stories as it is, these stories are for less intellectual people or child who do not understand vedas etc for example Mother tell her kid not to go out Rakshas will kill you, is your mother bad for lying or it is way to protect you. Even now if you can check the text book of kids which has imaginary stories or knowledge given in basic form, is it ok to say after 20k year education system is poor giving only half knowledge. Some books are purely written of less intellectual people but you have to take moral not story as it is. This is how Vedas are being taught to everyone in India. There are also many mis conception about caste systems by west which are not correct. with reference to your 2nd comment, Vedas mean knowledge please do not compare with other religious books where you have to follow something. For example if you have knowledge of doing something which does not mean you have to do that thing

[@alpeshmittal3779]

Check "Allah Upnishada" to know great work of Brahmin s that you didn't learn.was created for Akbar

[@KrisDivaRealtor]

We also saw how stupids interpret vedas when they dont have enough mental maturity to handle knowledge Knowledge in the hands of crooked does more harm- thats why people must be qualified spiritually , mentally before learning vedas that also includes atomic energy

[@AbhishekRajput-np5mc]

It's not that easy as you say what about untouchability

[@SK-ro8dn]

How it evolved is a matter of research.

[@shkharadvaith521]

i have studied manu smriti,, all you say is bullshit,, being born in a brahmin family i feel asheme ,,, stop justifying injustice & brutality on our own brothers from centuries. we should more open minded ,,, accept them as equals,,

[@aakashboom]

knowledge of religious texts and history was totally dominated by brahmins

[@Crymeareva]

Pure bs. Many of the literature are in fact the insignia that people from all background had permission to read religious text. Even now, most don't bother about religious text and leave it to few community as they don't find it FRUITFUL. You can't ignore the dharma raksha done by brahmans

[@aakashboom]

@@Crymeareva in ur dreams still judiciary,and priest have majority brahmins

[@SinghisKing791]

राजनेता गलत हैं लेकिन आप लोग गंदी राजनीति के लिए धर्म को क्यों दोष देते हैं? मैं दलित पृष्ठभूमि से मेरा स्व हूँ लेकिन मुझे हिन्दू पर गर्व है .. भाजपा के दिमाग की तरह बिल्कुल पापीकर दलित राजनेता भी लोगों का ब्रेनवॉश करते हैं kzbin.info/www/bejne/hprOpHiad76mmMU kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXrFfqF5a5aHeZo

[@bijaysonkar2106]

Bakwas

[@rohankadam358]

So, if a person calling himself a Brahmin on basis of his surname, but buys his own food with money earned by working, then he isn’t a Brahmin, but a Shudra. Correct?

[@rohankadam358]

sam vik Get to the point man. Answer with logic set by the dharma. Are those Brahmin working in a company or running their own business still Brahmin? Correct me if Iam wrong, by giving the examples/rules of the dharma.

[@saranjitsingam191]

Yes Brahmins monopolize education in ancient India. Eccess to eduçation means become wiser & Brahmins considered it a thread to maintain their hegemony in the society, Ur explanation is a futile exercise instead better to say sorry for the wrongs u have done in the past,

[@sun1216]

Could you qualify your statement with proofs?

[@sadenb]

Now , we don't need the caste system, move on with modern education.

[@Crymeareva]

Caste system ended in 1950, moreover anybody can add any surname to thier name. Also, its not caste system but the caste based politics and its further residue reservation has actually been an incentive for "establishing" caste system which could've ended in 1947. Varnas were based on occupation and modern caste system was corrupted by few communities (including brits and later Christian missionaries) Varna will exist till eternity coz its a concept, caste is purely based on bloodline and it was NEVER a part if pure Hinduism.

[@alpeshmittal3779]

Read manusmriti: dwijas only can study vedas, only Brahmin can teach Vedas. Shudra can not even have own wealth. Gandhis mother taught him if he touched untouchables then touch Muslim to counter or nullify that. Dwija can change duty except for teaching Veda which was exclusive to Brahmin. Shudra could not change or take up any dwijas work, only serve them.

[@shubhampandi9561]

You should go and read first whatsapp University product

[@Maharashtra_Dharma]

Come out of manusmriti bro 😂😂

[@shubhampandi9561]

@Aditya Kumar Pandey manu smriti is misinterpreted

[@roserosarosen5637]

@Aditya Kumar Pandey Manu smrithi is much misinterpreted from its original samskrutha text. Max Mueller, a German, was responsible for the translation. Looking back, his interpretation was deliberately done out of context. Typical white man mindset effort to denigrate Dharmic values and religion.