Did covid-19 leak from a Chinese lab?

For most of 2020 the theory that covid-19 leaked from a Chinese lab was dismissed as unlikely. In the past few months it has gained currency. Our experts explain why. Read more here: econ.st/3gzOVnV
00:00 - Where did covid-19 come from?
00:44 - What evidence is there?
02:06 - Why was the lab-leak theory dismissed?
03:23 - Could the lab leak have been deliberate?
04:07 - Could covid-19 be man made?
05:51 - How are the origins being investigated?
07:23 - Will China be held accountable if there was a lab leak?
08:26 - Expert opinion: what do you think happened?
09:26 - Could it always remain a mystery?
Find all our coverage of covid-19 here: econ.st/3gAjz0m
Listen to an episode of Babbage, our science and technology podcast, asking where covid-19 came from: econ.st/3wBU5VR
Podcast: How biosecurity shows the lab leak is feasible: econ.st/3q4GS5z
Listen to The Jab, our podcast about the vaccination race: econ.st/3vILlwd
There have been 7m-13m excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic: econ.st/3iNPPyB
What will it cost to end the pandemic? econ.st/3q7iOPI
A new weapon in the war against SARS-CoV-2 has been found: econ.st/3wzONKt
How covid-19 brought together biomedical technologies that will transform human health: econ.st/3iJfhW2
More evidence emerges of India’s true death toll from covid-19: econ.st/3gG9k9B
How much should you worry about the “Indian variant”? econ.st/3zywHKO
What is “black fungus”, the infection linked to covid-19 in India? econ.st/3gx23Kj
Europe’s vaccination campaign has gathered pace, though not everywhere: econ.st/35wzxlO
Why might covid-19 booster vaccinations be needed? econ.st/3xs44Nv
Do incentives of cash or gifts for covid-19 vaccines work? econ.st/35uIkVl
How improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2: econ.st/3vAOi1s

[@libelldrian173]

Why are the two people they asked not coronavirus scientists but journalists?

[@willmarine1287]

Because journalists report on science. You have to be careful because a concerning amount of journalists do not have a clue about what they are reporting, but these people seemed pretty well informed. A lot of specialized journalists worked in their respective field and went on to be journalists. All I want to say is that just because someone is a "journalist" doesn't mean they can't have nuanced, accurate, and specialized knowledge, but some journalists do not have nuanced, accurate, nor specialized knowledge and still report as if they do, so be careful.

[@BatCaveOz]

@@willmarine1287 ☝

[@QuizmasterLaw]

welcome to the narcissistic self congratulatory echo chamber which masquerades as contemporary journalism let's have a conversation, start a narrative, move the needle

[@kmeades346]

Even scientists can be comprised through leverage by grant requirements and reputational damage.

[@luckysours8397]

They asked scientists. They doubt the lab leak theory

[@lktasl999]

Sorry but that whole ‘Trump said it so we dIsmissed It’ defense is really not an excuse for irresponsible journalism. It just makes the journalists seem reactionary

[@StephenHalbhuber30]

Absolutely correct The press and worldwide main stream media have a lot to answer for

[@rp338]

when the boy cries wolf too many times any reasonable person will start to dismiss him

[@chicagocuesports200]

Trump was praising China and President Xi, regularly, early on in the pandemic. Trump was saying the virus was just a flu and that everything would be back to normal soon, then later admitted he knew this wasn't true when he said so. Mike Pompeo completeley contradicted himself regarding the origins of the virus, and on other subjects relating to this. There's still a lot of 'irresponsible journalism', and as usual most of it comes from Pro-Trump news outlets. Where's the actual proof that Trump was correct about something and absolutely *knew* this at the time he said it, or that the media dismissed this purely and simply because 'Trump said it so we dismissed it' ?

[@dande5009]

@@chicagocuesports200 fact of the matter is, that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was conducting corona virus experiments was public knowledge. The outbreak then began about 30 minutes down the road from that exact location. Many scientists, academics, epidemiologists, medical professionals… supposedly some of the smartest people in the world - refused to accept any connection between those two events despite their logical connection. The reason being - their judgements were impaired by ideology. Almost 4 million deaths and many more ruined lives later… I think society is right to scrutinise this.

[@AEARArg]

They truly deserve to be deprived of their degrees, if they have any. That argument is a disgrace.

[@yinoveryang4246]

What’s REALLY happening in this video is we have two journalists, who’ve in reality been mostly denying a lab leak. And who are now suddenly faced with the unavoidable fact that they were likely wrong in their journalism. And they are justifying it. And what's staring them in the face is the fact hat the probabilities and evidence for a lab leak, (mostly not mentioned here) some of these have been blatantly obvious, almost since the beginning. Lack of critical, rational and independent thinking are not the best qualities for the job.

[@Goreuncle]

Unless you have conclusive evidence that the virus was leaked, the words "fact" and "blatantly obvious" shouldn't be in your comment (and much less if you haven't bothered reading up on coronaviruses. Their origins, past outbreaks and what we know about them). SARS-CoV-2 isn't the first coronavirus to infect humans, there's also SARS-CoV-1 (discovered in 2002) and MERS-CoV (discovered in 2012), all caused by different strains of coronaviruses. Were those leaked as well? There were virology labs doing research on coronaviruses back then too, so why didn't the world go crazy with conspiracy theories then? Probably because those outbreaks didn't keep people around the world in lockdown for a year. This isn't about facts or evidence, this is about bigotry, this is about wanting "payback", this is about way too many people living in political echo chambers, swallowing misinformation instead of fact checking, this is about the global Dunning-Kruger epidemic (which is way worse than COVID-19). If your best argument is "there's a virology institute in Wuhan, doing coronavirus research", my answer is that there are many things in Wuhan, including the Huanan seafood market, where all sorts of animals and animal products were sold when the epidemic started. SARS-CoV-2 was found in environmental samples taken from there and over half of the first 40+ COVID-19 patients had been there. Still, since no evidence of bats was found in the market, it's still not clear whether the epidemic started there. In any case, I find it likely that animal handlers working in the Huanan seafood market had been in contact with infected animals, spreading the virus. Are you familiar with the 2003 SARS outbreak? Animal handlers and food peddlers in the Chinese provinces of Yunnan, Guizhou and Guangxi were among the first to get infected. Upon examination of the animals and animal products they handled, the coronavirus strand responsible for the SARS outbreak was found (SARS-CoV-1). What about the MERS outbreak in the Middle East? Genetic studies suggest that bats are the original hosts of these coronaviruses, however, MERS antibodies have also been found in dromedaries from Oman and the Canary Islands. The pathway to humans (intermediate host) hasn't been found yet, so we still don't know how the virus gained access to humans. In any case, we do know that coronaviruses originate in animals, they aren't created by humans. (And no, mixing together different kinds of coronavirus in a lab doesn't count, since they're all collected from animals and are out there, evolving every day) Was the SARS-CoV-2 strain leaked somehow from the Wuhan Institute of Virology? Could be, but, like I said, I find it more likely that the virus was transmitted through animal interaction, as it has happened in the past.

[@oceania2385]

​@@Goreuncle This story about this NOVEL Coronavirus can come out now because even the most ideologically blinded have run out of options.

[@gavin4848]

@@oceania2385 And the media is just the messenger right, so don't blame them or have any repercussions for what they did to cover it up. Beyond cruel. They are complicit.

[@oceania2385]

@@gavin4848 Wait until the reflexively dismissive normal people find out therapeutic drugs could have prevented hundreds of thousands deaths (surgisphere comes to mind). We need to shorten the cycles when the truth is revealed. This is no longer acceptable

[@CSOB2B]

Oliver Morton is one of premier "critical, rational, independent" journalist in the world. The news outlets that waited to discuss lab leak theory rightfully waited until the WHO's statements. Why would any respectable paper theorize about a lab leak from the start when: 1) all of our previous coronaviruses were zoonotic, so that is the pretense they'd want to start from, and 2) the lab leak lacked (and still does) hard evidence. You want bellicose bloviation about theories with no evidence? There are plenty of networks out there to choose from, ala Fox, Newsmax, etc.

[@moreshige]

This is enraging. These journalists made huge mistakes. A year ago, these same people were 100% sure the virus couldn't have come from a lab. Now, they''re backtracking and not even apologizing.

[@mugumyapaultheafricannomad9488]

We were called conspiracy theorists for saying what they're saying just a year ago... Lol. I'm now a proud conspiracy theorist 😄

[@lucasveloso]

They are actually blaming trump for their mistakes.

[@deltaanimations7720]

@@lucasveloso yikes

[@Ahria256]

It's called getting new data. January 2020 we had zero reason to affirm the belief that it was from a lab, there was zero evidence. Now we have something. That's how the world works. Something brand new takes time to understand and investigate.

[@moreshige]

@@Ahria256 No, instead they just flat out called it a conspiracy WITHOUT giving it a second thought. Scientists would or rather should not call anything a conspiracy theory UNTIL they get all the data, right? Well, they called it a conspiracy theory without ANY investigation. Know the difference between science and scientism.

[@ary2693]

This video is not sponsored by Gillette

[@fidelcatsro6948]

its sponsored by Tata motors Rajasthan

[@theunknownguy265]

😂

[@theunknownguy265]

@@fidelcatsro6948 ummm that's kinda racist

[@fidelcatsro6948]

@@theunknownguy265 China lab made it Indians promoted it ...theres a new "delta plus" variant too now from India latest model!!

[@theunknownguy265]

@@fidelcatsro6948 I hate India and China

[@PulpHouseHorror]

“The reason we didn’t take the lab leak theory seriously at the beginning was because Trump suggested it”

[@tjf7973]

HMMMM. How likely is it that the tRump administration had an agent release the virus as a gambit to weaken the Chinese economy. It got out of control... It really fits with tRumps behavior.

[@joe6pak14]

A broken clock is right twice a day.

[@frankjones4807]

the ultimate state of media in the 21st century.

[@TojiFushigoroWasTaken]

Yep @Torren Ptz its hard to believe the guy who has public scandals, posts borderline insane things on twitter , incited insurrection making an terrorist attack on his own country,incited widespread racism and doomed millions.

[@susanabrown6372]

It was a big confusion all around the world but the World Health Organization is failing to investigate. The first case was reported in a Seattle hospital by a man arriving from China and Trump did cancel all trips from China. The virus is here to stay for the rest of our lives.

[@SaltDaddy97]

People who predicted this one year ago: "They called me a madman"

[@mr.whyaxis9842]

They called me a Racist*

[@dopepear6400]

This comment is gonna blow up soon

[@Pterodactyl3011]

There is still no proof…

[@xCaptxCrunchx]

Eric Weinstein called it.

[@therewdy4038]

fort dettrick usa, vaping deaths 2019, we gave it to china!

[@lance134679]

Regardless of whether it was a lab leak or not, we need to take a serious look at the research that's being done and decide if the risk of lab leaks is worth it. After all, what research that came out of that lab has helped us deal with the pandemic? That's probably something we should know.

[@chrisguillen1495]

I think it gives the global scientific community some breakthroughs in their own respects. But someone or some entity needs to be held responsible if this wasn’t an evolutionary process. All roads lead to the lab so far.

[@tristanijeblagojevic2842]

So according to you Covid just come out naturally ?

[@hurrdurrmurrgurr]

The Australian government suggested that and China responded by launching a trade war. China wouldn't need to act defensive if they weren't completely guilty of engineering this virus.

[@tristanijeblagojevic2842]

@@hurrdurrmurrgurr How about illuminati include some fake western media from the so Called America

[@kyleayer9476]

Well said I'm pretty sure china made it happen and some American money paid for it

[@doobie6971]

Please could you get some actual scientists on not just journalists, etc virologist

[@HuplesCat]

Then there is no story. It is natural

[@jeffrose2105]

CCP bio Warfare Weapon

[@kensilver3959]

theres plenty that talk about it, but not on main stream

[@jedahn]

@Go Surf that's incorrect. But even at 40k, the odds are more favorable than ibuprofen.

[@phil20_20]

This is how they generate stories now. Journalists interviewing journalists. "Well Tom, what do you think?" - "In the News, Tom thinks that..."

[@armandomercado2248]

Well, that was a waste of 11 mins, 28secs.

[@haihuaho6991]

"If you mix science with politics, you only get politics." Please leave scientific questions to scientists, not to media or politicians.

[@386max1]

Can u ask the Chinese gov to hands off and let independent investigation take place?

[@wowowowo8044]

@@386max1 Can you ask USA get independent investigation? Port Detrick USA

[@googleuser2609]

Impossible. The way society works is that politics and media are interlinked with scientific discovery You can't escape it! There's no such thing as science being separate from actual people, society, media, government and politics.

[@davidgoldsmisth2673]

@@googleuser2609Predictably, another washing powder giving by us

[@davidgoldsmisth2673]

@@googleuser2609 and thats the reason why your country fail in the fought of covid 19, the politician keep the scientist shutting their mouth and keep telling people that the virus is a hoax.

[@kellielim890]

Why are journalists answering these questions? I overestimated Economists, they should be better than BBC.

[@chanelfitzgerald]

Because the truth gets shut down and YT is owned by FB who shuts down anyone having views on the virus. This is journalism today, falsified.

[@ChineseRepOfTaiwan]

That's why I unsubscribe the magazine this year.

[@Azzazpimp]

@@ChineseRepOfTaiwan you never had a subscription

[@alanfang8705]

true

[@ledg8577]

You sure you can understand if those questions are answered by scientists ? Don’t overestimate yourself please

[@ciaochao383]

I expected to see comments from scientists such as virologist and geneticist, ended up seeing two journalists talking about things they professionally pretend to know about.

[@bosatsu76]

Scientist can barely speak normal English... If one were to say what they thought, you wouldn't understand a word of it... Journalists who specialize in science spend a career learning how to translate the jargon into language we can understand... They don't pretend ANYTHING, they report in clear English what the scientists are saying... Evidently your political position didn't get the boost you hoped for...

[@reijiriffic]

it doesn't mean they can be right. your world is better and more informed because of investigative journalism. how do you even know they're "pretending".

[@ciaochao383]

@@bosatsu76 if only the journalists do what you said. They might did that in the past. But if they do that today they will be needing to find another job fast.

[@michaelschaefer1904]

@@bosatsu76 Please. It's called research and using the internet, not just Googling.

[@bosatsu76]

@@michaelschaefer1904 Research... trumplicker speak for googling Fox, OAN, and Infowars...

[@willderitzman]

Same plot made by USA in the past for Iraq...oh, where is the Iraq chemical weapon that US used to mention it?

[@grantcivyt]

"Wait...look over there!"

[@jcm9005]

动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama

[@Kai-ic4mp]

@@jcm9005 go get a life. Sad little nobody.

[@firefly4784]

Why was the biolab at Fort Detrick suddenly closed in summer 2019 and at the same time, an unknown pneumonia started to prevail in senior housing 30 minutes drive to Fort Detrick? Was there something leaking from there?

[@soniastarmorales8013]

US blood supply found infected with covid as early as August/September 2019. Also around same time people living around detrick came down with horrible strange pneumonia.

[@mrshawndunn]

In October 2019, the United States sent more than 300 players to Wuhan to participate in the 7th Military World Games. During this period, five U.S. military players developed symptoms of infectious diseases such as fever, cough and diarrhea, and were rushed to Jinyintan Hospital, a famous infectious disease hospital in Wuhan.

[@Follower_Of_Xi_Jinping_Pooh]

"Not feeling cooperative..." Sherlock, they haven't been cooperative since the China's cultural devolution.

[@gopro5210]

No facts, no evidence, just two people talking and making assumptions

[@tknocan]

Thanks you save me 11 minutes

[@class6aa]

Isn’t it like this for any video on China that western mainstream media is making?

[@vicw9223]

Did they mention that COVID-19 was found in Italy in September 2019?

[@Iridescence7770]

Lit no solid evidence is brought forth by you in this video. It's all speculation, how are you different from conspiracy theorists?

[@nicholaskhorasani7374]

She said if china wanted to deliberately release this virus they would do it near the US center for virology. Can the same logic be applied to the US? Wouldn't the US want to release the virus besides the China center for virology? (I'm not claiming anything this is just what I thought when she brought this up lol)

[@AnnaKuznetzova88]

More simple explanation is China accidentally released it. How would us leak it inside chinese specialty facility for coronvarivus research?

[@jessez8503]

@@AnnaKuznetzova88 except we don't know if it was even released inside the Chinese research facility. It could have been released outside the facility. All we have is speculation.

[@AnnaKuznetzova88]

@@jessez8503 we have much more than speculation 😂 the evidence certianly points to lab that authored papers altering coronavirus in mice that make them more effective at attacking respiratory system

[@jessez8503]

@@AnnaKuznetzova88the evidence seems to be circumstantial at best unless you have access to something I haven't seen in the media yet. I'm not saying it didn't happen, i just dont think much has changed in terms of hard verifiable evidence from back when trump was pushing this idea

[@magicmagus1459]

@nicholas hey bot, no matter how many times u try to spam this narrative, it won't work...u wumaos have literally spread every conspiracy theory that u could possibly think of..but none r sticking, winnie the pooh should fire u for wasting time like this...smh

[@kensilver3959]

there used to be a time when journalists used to tell the news, but now it's their interpretation of the news.

[@chanelfitzgerald]

How can they tell the truth? Look at people getting cancelled and shut down.

[@deboraleggerini5729]

Now they're just barking convinced that they're Einstein.

[@EZchairchillen]

I hated the way she answered questions, so much useless fluff

[@kingdomofheartslovers6238]

exactly when she said it's hard to make China accountable as it's such a powerful country. Its to understand what went wrong. Well, 3 million people have died and families devastated and economies crushed. Lost my respect for her

[@julianr8086]

She merely said the truth, China is ‘too big to jail’.

[@dmunoz912]

@@kingdomofheartslovers6238 Trying to make China accountable for covid is as impossible as trying to make the US accountable for its crimes. They're too big in political and economical terms.

[@kevinclasher3160]

@@dmunoz912 if it’s definitely a lab leak, nothing will happen from it anyway, same way the US should be accountable for the illegal war against Iraq…

[@WildGamez]

Don't make China accountable that's blaming an entire group and bad for their future. Blame the virologist for not revealing it earlier.

[@GrowlingM1ke]

You guys need to sort out the audio levels.

[@schoole7271]

^

[@hoangvu9360]

I agree.

[@williamartins]

just be grateful for the excelente free content my dear friend ;D

[@letranger7282]

@@williamartins in the age of information overwhelming, your attention and time is more valuable than content itself. Literally it is equal to profit for big firms.

[@mordecai4207]

Yes absolutely. Music is way too loud almost distracting.

[@motherbrain1112]

Cant Believe scientists refused to investigate the lab leak option just because ''trump bad'' ...talk about a dangerous and infantile way to react. Time is incredibly important when pandamics happen, politics should ALWAYS stay aside. All options should be considered and investigated. Now lets hope a ''serious'' investigation happen with non-biased/non-corrupted investigators. Some high-up scientists are in conflict of interrest about this. Toss them aside. The next pandemic could be evaded or mitigated with better preparations and knowledge.

[@fiasco2003]

The Economist: Our award winning journalists promise to bring you last year's news, sometime before next year...

[@michaelclark3283]

Hahaha. Nice

[@MarcColbeckCCP]

Did you watch the video? She talks about how the Economist has been reporting on this since April of last year. I don't think they've been late to the party.

[@fiasco2003]

​@@MarcColbeckCCP I ran a google search for Wuhan Lab Leak "The Economist" confined to Jan 2019 to 1st July. And I get pages of results none of which were from The Economist. I would describe all liberal mainstream coverage that I have seen as suspiciously ambiguous. Almost always "behind the curve". And in some cases it is something close to a disinformation campaign or smokescreen. Did the economist mention the possibility at some point? Maybe. But did they put together all the mounting evidence and argue the case cogently in a single article. Not to my knowledge.

[@fredfreddy8684]

What do you want them to do? We don't know the origin yet. You want them to flip a coin or draw straws?

[@gerardchuah717]

I expected more from the Economist. Please ask the scientists, not journalists. We need science based rational fact finding

[@luckysours8397]

Scientists disagree with the theory

[@juanpabloabriola7365]

@@luckysours8397 some no some yes is not that easy there r many scientist in this world but most r unknow

[@kyleebrahim8061]

@@luckysours8397 science isn't consensus, they don't vote on evidence. Show us the evidence.

[@louixlimited222]

@@kyleebrahim8061 💓

[@doraecat]

I think people need to realise that "Did the virus leak from a lab?" and "Was the virus man-made?" are two questions with possibly different answers.

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

@western wumao it is very irresponsible to state such as thing as if you knew it.

[@maddog2314]

Hmmm so if the virus is mostly bat RNA with a binding codon of pangolin origin, maybe it is manmade. That's what I'd believe if that was true. I think I'd have to see the sequences of all 3 to believe it. At this point though, what will happen? Will China bend to calls for payback? What should happen? Will they shut down the lab? I think they should because of safety violations alone. Those scientists wore 0 PPE when messing with bats.

[@ninan2670]

@@maddog2314 I like your thinking. I want you as a friend, to help me negotiate other minefields of info and ethics...

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

@@maddog2314 I'm pretty certain that you are talking nonsense all the way.

[@zidorovichburblyatya2862]

@Sam Uncle Yeah because Trump didn't lift the ban on scientific research regarding viruses and don't you know that the American medical intelligence community warned Trump in November about a virus in China with no moles there but Trump disregard those.

[@kanms5431]

What about when CDC USA said there were many "white lungs disease" (which were quite similar to Cov-19 lungs) appearing in the US, but they just simply chucked them aside as simply "pneumonia". Why didn't USA report that to WHO to launch a full scale investigation into a new disease?

[@kmeades346]

Hi Wuamo, keep working hard but you're not fooling anyone.

[@Telltaletracks]

A lot of people here seem to have a problem with accepting uncertainty. Pretending that you know something when you actually don't, when the evidence is inconclusive, is basically lying. It's a sign of journalistic integrity, not cowardice, to be honest about the gaps in one's knowledge.

[@NTNscrub]

I think their issue is, without any conclusive evidence, there was major backlash at anyone who dare propose such a possibility. That shouldn’t have been the case. They weren’t expected to assert something without evidence, but they definitely were expected to not assert there’s no evidence or possibility of something before deeper investigation.

[@thelastbrobo7826]

Amazing coincidence: a deadly corona virus spontaneously develops in a market a few blocks from a lab that studies and practices gain of function research on corona viruses...

[@gc4161]

Which mysteriously released a academic paper regarding a coronavirus extremely similar to covid19 wich uses the same protein and has the same cascading effect in mouse bodies as covid19 ...just a coincidence

[@steelcom5976]

A coincidence is not proof

[@antonysmyth2464]

@Go Surf LoL, and did you know that thousands of people died from motor cars last year!!! So what; millions had a safe ride.

[@manuelmanuel9815]

an even more amazing coincidence, even before the lab was there, the conditions for sars type viruses to flourish were much higher in Wuhan than in 99% of other places ... Setting up a lab there is almost as strange as having ski resorts in Colorado, instead of having them in Miami...

[@steelcom5976]

@Sylvie Do you really want to create an axiom that states that a concidence IS proof?

[@Weydert]

To all those who have not watched this and are about to: don’t bother… this won’t answer any of your questions. It’s full of hypothetical phrases such as “hard to verify”, “impossible to answer properly”, “rumours swirling around”. Why bother uploading this when the information content is zero? Total waste of time.

[@marcosfigueroa4521]

thank you, I was at the 2:52 min before reading your comment and had the same feeling already that I was just wasting my time

[@rzvn111]

The only interesting thing was the dudes have shaven face …

[@bettinachan7432]

Did this two guest visited the wuhan lab? If not, what qualifies them to come to any kind of conclusion

[@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

Bettina Chan - Haha, and you think the arrogant Chinese dictatorship would LET them do that? We have seen how the CCP threatened Australia for asking questions.

[@liuzorich4058]

"Our experts explain why. " Well, not everyone can be called an expert. To me, the two "experts" just summarized what has been reported by the press.

[@samuraijack1371]

So he shaved with his mask on! Taking precautions to the extreme

[@f8881f]

Lol..I think he actually shaved the area beneath the mask and was expecting an interview with mask on :D

[@QuizmasterLaw]

he looks and sounds ridiculous.

[@tropicaltrev1617]

@@QuizmasterLaw Go away bot, nobody cares about your opinion!

[@krupeshdesai]

came to comment section to see comments on that weird hair on face

[@rp338]

i am very pro mask but yeah your comment is still funny

[@rinnetsujikubo2811]

China reported the very early cases pretty much in time to the WHO in DEC 2019 but that lady said little has been reported and China is not in a cooperative mood. And how did she back up her argument that "China doesn't want to look at the early cases"? if so, how were they going to treat massively infected patients? Are you dare to question the same to America where in mid19 they said the pneumonia was due to e-cigarette loll.

[@julianj9830]

“I know you won't believe me, but the highest form of Human Excellence is to question oneself and others.” -Socrates

[@rishinepal4371]

Oliver morton's awful beard has made the entire seriousness of this news to ridiculous

[@SjWhit]

Agreed. It's quite difficult to take anything he's saying seriously.

[@karthikreddy9446]

I found it creative and different

[@timothypaulcornejo853]

😂

[@rubo111]

It's as ridiculous as the reporting.

[@Tallie90]

That's eyebrows

[@a.j.1339]

Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit disturbing how light-hearted and funny the speakers seem to be treating the topic of the virus at times during the interview? =/ this virus killed a lot of people.. I also didn't really learn any particularly insightful takeaways from either of them. Considering the topic, there's been a lot of speculation on the answers to these questions and people watching this should know that the analysis is casual at best

[@0dyss3us51]

Yeah they seem a bit detached from reality, I have family who died from this lab virus.

[@Chic-A-Dee]

You're not the only one. Compared to their written articles, the Economist takes a big drop in quality for the videos.

[@faithlesshound5621]

@@Chic-A-Dee "A big drop in quality for the videos" is to be expected. What you say in a book has to be simplified for a magazine article, and further dumbed-down for a video. That's the nature of the different audiences.

[@PianoShawn]

u have to take worldwide systematic corruption into consideration.

[@nosuchthing8]

Don't blame the messenger

[@RangKlos]

Scientists said no, journalists and intelligence agents said we heard rumors so we knew better. The fact is it took 15 years to complete SARS origin investigation.

[@hillerm]

Many scientists say it’s completely possible.

[@gorilla7430]

In addition to Fort Detrick, the United States has established more than 200 biological laboratories worldwide. Many reports claim that the distribution of these laboratories is very similar to the distribution of some dangerous diseases and viruses in recent years, such as severe acute respiratory syndrome, Ebola hemorrhagic fever, and Zika virus. Regarding the above-mentioned doubts, when did the United States give the international community a reasonable explanation?

[@mrshawndunn]

Why was the biolab at Fort Detrick suddenly closed in summer 2019 and at the same time, an unknown pneumonia started to prevail in senior housing 30 minutes drive to Fort Detrick? Was there something leaking from there? In October 2019, the United States sent more than 300 players to Wuhan to participate in the 7th Military World Games. During this period, five U.S. military players developed symptoms of infectious diseases such as fever, cough and diarrhea, and were rushed to Jinyintan Hospital, a famous infectious disease hospital in Wuhan.

[@gumyum3907]

Please explain In 2019 Usa, patients had died from respiratory illness after vaping.

[@jpenalverty14]

Yup! I remember all the news of Americans dying in Dominican Republic hotels

[@matthewmeno5279]

Vaping is wrong!

[@gumyum3907]

@@matthewmeno5279 What do you mean it's wrong?

[@matthewmeno5279]

@@gumyum3907 It just is!

[@gumyum3907]

@@matthewmeno5279 You have to tell me why it's wrong or else I cannot get your point.

[@lvrt8371]

Btw, who’s talking here? What’s their credibility?????????

[@jayrrees]

A Coronavirus lab and a Coronavirus originates in the same city. Where do we look first.

[@Jay-nv2gi]

When two clueless journalists try to speak. LOL. 11 minutes wasted.

[@antonysmyth2464]

China troll?

[@jaimea6012]

The Chinese, NIH, and Fauchi did this to the world, it's time to hold them accountable!!!!

[@Qween_duh]

Yes I read all about them in this book SMH

[@djcoronel]

that guy forgot to shave half his face.

[@nandocaetano10]

I Thought it was a headset

[@DanielLee-si8dz]

Symptom of Covid?

[@chucknarras]

Look at the photo to the left

[@babagandu]

Those are lamb chops

[@mocamoca1062]

Starting to question the seriousness of this channel & magazine. The way the lady talks about Chinese authority would rather dump this virus near an American institute just shows this is pure speculation & people are entertaining the thought due to their inherent bias

[@goldyolvidobaroa]

"Absence of evidence is not an evidence of absence" That's brilliant!

[@djw9985]

I said this a year and a half ago and people called me a Conspiracy Theorist.

[@somethinsomethin7243]

What about the Chinese doctors that said it came from a lab? The ones that spoke out in the very beginning? Let's talk to them ohhh wait they ALL DISAPPEARED.

[@jeanque2130]

they are all probably collaborating with US intelligent services and US scientists

[@muttman82]

Funny how this information gets lost.. Let's find Mrs. Li the scientist that said she was doing gain of function and she said that she left China so she wouldn't disappear!! Here's ground zero!

[@nanbull7604]

You lie.

[@BB-cf9gx]

If you worked at a Wuhan lab and you accidentally leaked a virus you'd hide from the CCP to.

[@alfredjohnson3642]

@@jeanque2130 why do you get angry nobody is saying Chinese people are evil, your government is evil but not the people

[@MrBoliao98]

Frankly, it is the irresponsibility of those who mismanaged. There are so many places that control the pandemic, and frankly this could have been prevented.

[@Me__Myself__and__I]

@jay Bourne Would love to see those. Its quite plausible. The CCP had no level 4 labs and no experience with level 4, so they partnered with the French to build and run this lab. But as soon as the lab was built they kicked the French out and made it Chinese only. The French certainly weren't expecting that. Who knows what they were doing in that lab, clearly they didn't want other governments around to see. The CCP continues to show the whole world that they lie frequently, hide information and can not be trusted. No one should have built them a level 4 lab - and its quite likely that this world wide pandemic is the cost of setting one up for them.

[@youtubedeletedmyaccountlma2263]

-It works in my favor-

[@MrBoliao98]

@Lucas Zhu 你這個姓朱，最好小心。自己在 KZbin 5個月前 upload 那個片段是找麻煩。要評論 for God's sake 不要擺自己塊面在網上。我不是威脅你，而是提醒你只怕萬一。

[@Icantfeeeeeelit]

The responsible for the outleak that lead that millions death, should be prosecuted and hanged for their "mistake".

[@MrBoliao98]

@@USAlove.tsmc.NotYou 你自己不会读，没人当你是盲。I'm criticising the people who mismanaged the pandemic, 而不是怪 those investigating. The truth is that in don't matter whether it leaked or not, rather the people who mismanaged, 搞到封城。

[@victorong9772]

Where did covid came from ? In America they have reported infections early November !

[@nosuchthing8]

So what

[@ghqin]

1. On this planet, which has the strongest research and development capabilities, the most investment, and the longest duration of research on biological and chemical weapons? Answer: United States. 2. Has Fort Detrick been closed in August 2019? Answer: Indeed, the laboratory itself reported that the closure order was due to ongoing infrastructure issues in wastewater purification, and the CDC refused to provide reasons for the closure due to national security considerations. 3. During the same period, did two nursing homes near Fort Detrick show unexplained pneumonia? Answer: Yes. 4. Why is the United States anxious to withdraw from the World Health Organization? Answer: I am worried that the WHO is investigating the source of the new coronavirus. 5. Why can the United States be able to announce the successful development of the new crown vaccine on March 16, 2020? Answer: The development of vaccines in the United States has already begun, because the United States has already had an outbreak of influenza virus before that, and the United States has also admitted that there may also be new coronavirus infections among influenza patients.

[@frndfrts]

I guess there is an essential question that is not being explored which is “who has the burden of proof” in this case. Should’t the common sense (and eventually the international legal) standard be that if you operate a level 4 biosafety lab and perform gain of function research on viruses that coincidentally show up in the general population just a few blocks from your facilities, than the burden is on you to demonstrate beyond any doubt to the whole world that you follow all the protocols and best practices and there was no accident or leak and therefore the virus did not come from your facilities?

[@elizabethhenning778]

The main problem is that the timing is wrong. If those WIV lab techs in November 2019 were in fact the first cases, it's incredibly unlikely that the virus stayed in Wuhan for a month given how fast it spread everywhere else. It's more likely that covid-19 was already widespread in China by then and the Chinese government has no idea where it came from. Which is not to say that there shouldn't be better safety protocols.

[@jakeg3126]

Well 1-2 people might’ve been infected, it doesn’t spread very easy, and they weren’t testing at all

[@redcardinal1219]

The Wuhan lab was set up and has been monitored by the French since the start , and french , American virologists takes residency . Also, if it was originated in Wuhan , Beijing , China and Asia should be hit the hardest before Italy , Spain and US. Think about it, is not logical

[@DeadeyeJedi85]

@@redcardinal1219 China WAS the hardest hit initially, but they took their lockdown to extremes only possible under an authoritarian regime.

[@DeadeyeJedi85]

@@jakeg3126 Was this a typo? It spreads more easily than just about any other virus.

[@pangrui945]

Lab leak theory should not be ruled out, as US based military labs have not been investigated yet, who could say, scientifically and practically, covid 19 was not from a highly sophisticated and classified military lab based in Maryland? They've been doing that research for year. More investigations must be conducted.

[@grantcivyt]

😂

[@pangrui945]

@@pithikoulis Yeah call all the sane voices wumao is a nice but cheap try.

[@jcm9005]

动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama

[@libelldrian173]

Nice chinese propaganda!

[@vincent-8556]

@@pithikoulis You call the Chinese wumao condescendingly here, but China has successfully sent astronauts to the space station. Keep screaming like this until China becomes the world leader, loser.

[@josephrobles7094]

Why can’t we hold them accountable? Every nation in the world was effected by this doesn’t matter how big China is, we can hold it accountable

[@rajindarsingh1417]

The guy needs a proper shave , spots above the cheekbones 😂

[@phil20_20]

Bad lighting 😄

[@librarymouse567]

Critical much?

[@tiagopaim3060]

It's the weirdest beard style ever but it's cool

[@mrtrx]

That’s a weird beard

[@ShadowWizard123]

That beard was engineered in a laboratory

[@fl6964]

All just guessing. What a waste of time.

[@MirageShen]

Thanks for comment. Save my time.🤝

[@lily-makehasteslowlyc2414]

Why the virus in China was mostly second or third generation while the first generation was initially found in US ? can someone explain?

[@PlasticExtrusionProfiles]

because USA is the covid-19 motherland. so they want to make China as a scapegoat, hegemony of media propaganda is the tool can overthrow a Country.

[@Leon-se3rn]

When she is talking about the origin of the covid-19 virus, she didn't even mention the electronic cigarette disease outbreak in America, why? why is she so afraid of that thing? Do you think it's fair? All of you know well what disease was circulating back to that time?

[@paulchu9052]

@@PlasticExtrusionProfiles Here are reasons why China is the COVID 19 motherland: A. French, American, Australian etc scientists were colluding with the Chinese Scientists. They get cheap labour and can still do gain of function research in China. They covered up because they were involved. B. As to what happened in China and the rest of the world, It did spread to Korea, Japan but with fewer deaths. While in China, 1. the virus was not as well adapted to human as it is now. 2. Most of the people in China wear masks. 3. Chinese people, especially the older one, are very serious in protecting their lives and themselves in the face of danger and don't take risks. They are used to respond quickly to danger. 4. The case and mortality data from China are flawed.

[@PlasticExtrusionProfiles]

Paul Chu just brainwashed puppet tbink like this. The most possible source of COVID-19 is the United States. Reasons are as follows: 1) the electronic cigarettes pneumonia （vaping pneumonia) and COVID - 19 symptoms are nearly the same, and electronic cigarette is there for 20 years, only continuous appear ill in the middle of 2019 death cases in the United States, other countries have never. 2) A old people's home near the Maryland fort detrick military virus lab happened a collective death by infectious disease, then no further news, Near the same time also continuous appear unknown infectious disease deaths after closed the lab. 3) then is the special report flu infected tens of millions of people were killed more than 40000 people (symptoms, mortality, and the new champions league), government in March 2020, trump is not new detection reagent pollution (said), then test the new crown flu has somehow disappeared. And in just 15 days, the number of infections exceeded 50. Do not test really no, a test on the explosion! 4) the United States, 2019 held a global pandemic exercise! It simulates an epidemic in central China that spreads globally. (this coincidence is also too wide of the mark) 5) wuhan military games, five American soldiers got sick (says malaria, China has no malaria many years), not by the civil aviation, flew to meet in the United States. (this is to prevent the infection after diffusion of civil aviation, couldn't impute to China) 6) in February 2020, the lancet and the study found that China only the third generation of strain, and the United States have all 1 to 5 generations strain... 7) Crucially, as of June 2021, the number of infections and deaths in the United States is far greater than in any other country, which makes no sense in terms of population, density, and medical capacity. 8) CNN reported few days ago, American researchers found the evidence the virus is spreading in December 2019. check CNN Twitter. 9) you can find many Americans' comments on Internet that saying they have same or similar symptoms of covid-19 in 2019.

[@honestrunescaper]

☠️⚠️ SCAM/LIE ALERT. PLEASE EVERYONE IGNORE THESE PAID TROLLS ⚠️☠️

[@jn3750]

The Economist is no longer respectable. This video iS another clear example.

[@consciouscreations7389]

It's man made in a lab and it was realised deliberately.

[@gren509]

The same BS we have been hearing for over a year - what is the point of this ?

[@Coreyspr89]

So in essence the questions aren't answered.🙄

[@samcarter2371]

I knew a man in Texas who had a PhD in Chemistry, he worked for the pharmaceutical industry, we dated-not for very long- the man was so dry and devoid of character he made me physically ill. Anyway, he asked me one night a 'hypothetical' question: "How would you react to a virus outbreak that claimed millions of lives?" I replied: "it would be sad, but it might alleviate overpopulation". I wasn't serious about the last part, but I'm glad I said it because his eyes lite up! He told me my response was the most balanced answer he's heard. He, on the other hand, was dead serious like, "finally somebody understands the need for population control". I was somewhat baffled by his 'hypothetical' question, and off-put by his cold presence- needless to say I stopped dating him. We parted ways, and I honestly stopped thinking about him until COVID-19 made headlines; now I think about him often, and his strange 'hypothetical' question about a deadly outbreak. It wasn't long after we parted ways this outbreak happened. Am I supposed to believe it was a mere coincidence a chemist who works in pharmaceuticals would ask such a strange hypothetical question shortly before it came true? I don't care if anybody else agrees, but I'm convinced he had inside knowledge of what was ahead. Not only was he a chemist, but he came from a wealthy family who would know more about the elites plans than us. In my soul I truly believe the elite had this virus manufactured with the intention of profiting, and simultaneously reducing our population; and he knew about it.

[@edmundprice5276]

Well, regardless of whether it came from the wet markets or the labs, lab biocontainment and security needs to be improved globally and covered by an international treaty

[@fiasco2003]

There's just about zero chance that we will see any concerted progress on that front now. Since the establishment and media have operated in concert to throw down this year long smoke screen. I personally know people who now upon hearing that the lab leak hypothesis may be legitimate have confessed to me that they have lost interest in the topic and want to move on. So, the job is done. Humanity can now blunder into the next crisis having learned nothing from this one.

[@neashacampbell7906]

It's a lot deeper than strengthening security my friend. There are people who run this world as we know it and they have planned this for multiple reasons and it has absolutely nothing to do with this lab or better protocols or security. They needed a reason as to tell us where it came from and what better way than to blame a small town in China. There is a very true and evil agenda for this world and particularly America. This whole country is an experiment. Taking the land from us Native Americans and making us a minority in our own country to use this land as a place to build Satan's official playground and true laboratory.

[@Quantum-1157]

The Economist: totally clueless since jumping on the Iraq war bandwagon with neocons in 2004!

[@Quantum-1157]

@I Say the economist? Because they backed the invasion unequivocally and then 5 years later had to admit that they got it all wrong! Since then there is seldom anything they got right: from saying that india will open up its retail and financial services sector to international and free competition right to how Trump cannot win the presidency. I think they should stick to answering A-level Economics question papers!

[@Quantum-1157]

@I Say old chap the world has over 200 countries and so plausible that 48 were wrong and 152 were right! (Including the french, the Canadians, etc) Unless you’re stuck in the days of the ‘empire” and feel there are 50 countries in the world. I say old chap, how goes the empire? And thnx for reflecting your upbringing in your choice of vocabulary initially. Now be careful the Kaiser’s EU project is planning something rather nasty in Europe and we shan’t stand for it! 🤣😂🤣😂

[@Quantum-1157]

@I Say and now the empire is all but perished. Britannia doesn’t rule the waves and the ex-colony in the americas is whom we remain subservient to! And they didn’t even join our ‘common wealth’ - I say there’s an element of humiliation isn’t it? Btw the economist was one publication that supported the invasion - many others didn’t! That was the point old chap! 🤣😂🤣😂

[@Quantum-1157]

@I Say I have answered you already mate, stop wallowing in self-amazement!

[@Quantum-1157]

@I Say saddam Hussain gassed the innocent Kurds in 1991 - thnx for lying about WMDs amd invading a country of 26 million people 13 years later! Amd giving Iran a deep foothold in Iraq in the process. Also care to answer the questions I posed in my reply ?

[@Christofinity]

They should've mentioned about China silencing of disappearing doctors or researchers who spoke out at the beginning.

[@itsalltakenup]

You realise that some of the American health professionals who spoke out about the crisis got fired.. one whistleblower even had the FBI break into her house with weapons pointed at her child.

[@Christofinity]

@@itsalltakenup Wow. That's insane, I never heard about this! I thought only in China. But in USA aswell 🤯

[@lagrangewei]

@@Christofinity the chinese doctor never disappear, BBC fake the news, the stupidity of it is the picture they post of her was 2 day AFTER they claim she disappear, u can see the date on the computer monitor on the actual picture they use. BBC is just a joke these day... the other doctor that claim she escape a lab etc, her twitter account was suspended for fake news, she wasn't even from china to begin with. but i admit that is a smart way of cheating an asylum card in the US, at least she can live comfortably in the US.

[@Christofinity]

@@lagrangewei Wumao detected. Collect your 50c and begone of you. Your reply isn't going to convince anyone with a brain.

[@Christofinity]

@Stephen Young I would trust BBC more than state controlled Chinese media though. Chinese media are notorious for spreading bias propaganda news.

[@peterabild1123]

There are thousands maybe hundreds of thousand wet markets in China. How many virus laboratories are there in China? Maybe 10? What is the probability that the COVID leaked from a wet market in a town that also has a virus laboratory? I would say it is rather small.

[@CL-ig6vw]

Hey, you Economists, can you guys do a documentation about the 200+ biolabs the U.S. currently operating around the world? What do they do there? Why do they need so many labs in other countries instead of in your own country? What are you afraid of operating inland?

[@oscarplant6371]

Dude, these kind of viruses and diseases occur all over the world, you want to have such resources as to investigate and test them safely and straight away, in country. Really not sure what point your trying to get at here…

[@edwardr8826]

@Stephen Young only that none of those were doing gain of function research on coronaviruses

[@loko8572]

What’s going on with that beard there mate ? 🤔

[@scooter80stv]

I wondered as well. I think they are goggle marks .

[@kenloh7]

WHO has investigated WIV. Why does US not allowed WHO to investigate Fort Detrick?

[@spacetoast7783]

Presumably national security secrets

[@MultiSciGeek]

The fact that these two have no idea what they're talking about, and them being hosted on such a prominent & reputable platform, only adds to the confusion/uncertainty that's giving legitimacy to baseless conspiracy theories. Thread this topic carefully! Don't make assumptions beyond what the solid evidence points to. It's OK to not know some things... after all neither of the two are Chinese scientists.

[@andreascserna]

I can't even take this video seriously because of that guy's cheekburns/cheek horn mustache hybrid

[@recluse5025]

Talking about accountability, how about that guy who calls the virus a hoax, and will disappear by itself. Sat there and did nothing for months?

[@bullymaguire632]

Basically the Brazilian president

[@edwardpark5863]

you mean the guy that first suggested the lab leak theory and got called racist for that and blocking flights from China? I think the guy funding the lab that most likely caused the pandemic and misled us about masks when they mattered most should definitely be held more accountable if they have "doctor' in their title.

[@recluse5025]

@@edwardpark5863 first you didn't answer my questuon. Second, nobody says the lab theory is racist. Crossing out coronavirus and calling it Chinese virus is racist. The hate crime towards Asian American increased by 900% and it's not a coincidence. Don't blur the lines here.

[@recluse5025]

When a president tells the public the virus will disappear by Easter, but in reality it survived two Easters, and killing hundreds of thousands, we just turn a blind eye to that?

[@weiwujiang6884]

@western wumao yes, there’s no India variant, there’s no virus in India, do you satisfied? It’s a virus come from the nature, unfortunately it had been reported first in Wuhan China( though we still don’t know where or how it began),they 1.4 billion people took very strict restrictions to control this , didn’t you see this? But some governments or people won’t take restrictions seriously,

[@jonchan5807]

When is a Health Policy Editor can be called an expert on corona virus? You have a lot of guessing and then you drawn conclusions. The Fort Derrick lab in Fredrick Maryland was suddenly closed amid the Vapour Lung Decease spreading in that area and the US refused to be investigated. How do you explain this?

[@mrshawndunn]

In addition, in October 2019, the United States sent more than 300 players to Wuhan to participate in the 7th Military World Games. During this period, five U.S. military players developed symptoms of infectious diseases such as fever, cough and diarrhea, and were rushed to Jinyintan Hospital, a famous infectious disease hospital in Wuhan.

[@missdoglover1644]

For me it looks like a lab leak. We need to know where it came from so we can learn lessons and ensure it doesn’t happen again.

[@tatianad1934]

They will be held accountable just as germany was held accountable for the Holocaust. It takes time

[@85nedved]

I think if lab leak is confirmed China should be fully held accountable and pay for all damages.

[@ryandavies6243]

Who can make them?

[@iankamau222]

the mainstream media is starting to sound like conspiracy theory whatsapp memes

[@g9qtpi]

What are you saying next that there are no UFO and aliens

[@iheartlol90]

Are you saying the lab leak theory is the conspiracy? There is evidence for the lab leak. The wuhan institute of virology hasn’t been as transparent about it as they should be and they also haven’t found which animal transferred covid to a human. Also the first known cases in wuhan had no connection to the wet market they said covid came from.

[@worldcomicsreview354]

@@iheartlol90 For 18 months daring to suggest a lab leak got your KZbin video or Facebook post plastered with "misinformation" warnings. Then Joe Biden says maybe it's true, and suddenly it's okay to talk about it.

[@Iridescence7770]

so glad more ppl are seeing through their bs

[@iheartlol90]

@@worldcomicsreview354 Right. Seems like because Trump made inflammatory comments suggesting it was engineered or whatever, they went the exact opposite way. But I think their only now looking at the lab theory for more reasons, one being that they still haven’t found the intermediate animal it transferred from.

[@primepatriotone2443]

Of course, Made and distributed from China.

[@Bob-xr2cv]

Didn’t leak, they let it out

[@Daniel.M.I]

Is it me, or every time journalists want to make an opinion piece, they bring in either activists or other journalists to issue opinions? What happened with having two actual reputable specialists with equal time, laying out opposing opinions? Are we, the public, so dumb that the message needs to be formatted before put out? I'm far less concerned with what happened than with why it looks that we don't have open discussions about anything that can be divisive.

[@ian1468]

“We had suspicions that covid had leaked from a lab, but we didn’t say anything because big bad orange man was saying it and immediately called it racist.”

[@nosuchthing8]

Zero evidence

[@therewdy4038]

fort dettrick

[@nosuchthing8]

@@Venn922 zero evidence of a lab leak. Its just one of many possible explanations. Remember, they still dont know where the spanish flu back in 1918 came from. It could have been from Kansas, is the latest I heard. The only sure explanation is that it came from China. And most likely from an animal.

[@hurrdurrmurrgurr]

@@nosuchthing8 The world's ability to track pathogen spread is nothing like it was in 1918. There wasn't a lab in 1918 Kansas experimenting with gain of function research, the same lab that had documented the possibility of creating a corona virus with the exact characteristics as what we're seeing. A lab which despite having so much research on corona viruses had nothing that could be used to prevent Covid 19's spread. A lab which to this day goes uninvestigated because Kansas refuses to allow any independent bodies inside and will actively launch trade sanctions on any country which proposes the idea of an investigation which would certainly put this "possible explanation" to rest. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence the only reason this isn't already concluded is because China is openly hostile to the truth.

[@nosuchthing8]

@@hurrdurrmurrgurr there is a problem with your narrative. Many other labs experiment with gain of function research. From watching various you tube videos made over the past dozen years, it's clear this is a fairly ubiquitous activity. They do it everywhere. Or they were. So we are back to square one. Find evidence of a lab leak. Talking about the possibility of a lab leak is not evidence of a lab leak. For all we know a lab in another part of the world had the leak first, and then the disease spread from there. But again, the same issue. The need to prove it was leaked from a lab. For myself, there is a reason to believe it was NOT a lab leak. The r naught. Delta has a much higher r naught than the wild strain. Why create something with gain of function research that is not maximized to spread as fast as possible?

[@mrshawndunn]

Why was the biolab at Fort Detrick suddenly closed in summer 2019 and at the same time, an unknown pneumonia started to prevail in senior housing 30 minutes drive to Fort Detrick? Was there something leaking from there? In October 2019, the United States sent more than 300 players to Wuhan to participate in the 7th Military World Games. During this period, five U.S. military players developed symptoms of infectious diseases such as fever, cough and diarrhea, and were rushed to Jinyintan Hospital, a famous infectious disease hospital in Wuhan.

[@orbitaljellyfish808]

It’s from a lab and everyone knows it Even if it wasn’t, it’s in a lab now Along with dozens of others That is the real issue obscured by this distraction of debating the obvious

[@louth1770]

His half shaven face beard is a distraction to what he had to say. LoL.

[@anymonkey70]

never noticed as i was watching the light reflecting off his glasses

[@pratiksud]

Reverse wolverine

[@johnhartnett3873]

@@anymonkey70 I can’t not notice that now

[@f8881f]

@@pratiksud hahahhaha

[@ggursel]

LOL

[@JohnJHPark]

The more important thing we’ve overlooked is that how the global economic key players reacted at early stage. For example, FED chose the massive quantitive ease much more than the one that happened when actual economy collapsed in 2008. We will see how much dangerous choice it was for the next decade’s global economy.

[@user-dv4rh2my1x]

Thats not more important than a virus that killed so many without China being held responsible

[@debbierobertson4835]

Chineese have slot to answer too

[@beginnerquant6261]

The blood samples show it existed in US since Dec 2019 in US. Why not follow this clue and probe more lines?

[@kellielim890]

If it is allowed it could have been done long ago.

[@akaya2526]

Chinese Propaganda: It is made in American Fort Detrick lab Western Propaganda: It is made in Chinese Wuhan lab Both Western and Chinese scientists: COVID is extremely NOT possible to be made in labs

[@kiranjackson7412]

She didnt answer the question when asked what she thinks after her research, it shows she is still traumatised by the recent upheaval in the once accepted to be false theory. She herself was a major proponent of claiming this theory to be false.

[@ninan2670]

@ Kiran Jackson Was she a proponent of the "once accepted to be false theory", or did she argue that that acceptance was based on false reasoning / assumptions? Is she fence-sitting, or recognizing the difficulties posed?

[@paulpinsonnaultguitar]

The question of holding China accountable is a straw man. Once again if the US did it will they be held accountable!

[@amandang6604]

These “experts” know nothing.

[@igorpereiradasilva4681]

I think that the secretive activities inside those labs should be ended or at least diminshed by international inspection inside the facilities, just like the UN does with nuclear programs. Many countries spend biblions in research and the citizens have no clue of what is being done, only when a disaster such as a pandemic breaks out that we take notice what P4 labs are.

[@simonbednarik6682]

If they are not hold accountable for the lab leak itself (if it is confirmed), they should be held accountable for denying, misinformation and a slow response, when they were aware of it.

[@JohnWick-xy7nz]

What?? Which country are you based? I would like to see how well your government has been handling this

[@simonbednarik6682]

Slovakia. Our response was alright, one of the better ones I think. If you want to say that a country's slow response due to denying Covid is real or dangerous should not be blamed on China than you are right. Even if the virus is from a zootonic spillover, there was enough information about it for countries to implement correct measures. But if the virus leaked from a lab it was irresponsible from China to deny it did, many more lives would have been saved.

[@lukegaming86]

Once again economists stepping outside their lane

[@grantcivyt]

So far they give the most honest explanation as to why the leak hypothesis was dismissed--namely because Trump suggested it. What's worse is that SCIENTISTS stayed quiet and even downplayed the hypothesis.

[@user-vo5bw5wx5f]

@@grantcivyt When "I don't know what China has done before WHO investigation" equals "China has done little before WHO investigation", you know where the Economists is standing.

[@grantcivyt]

@@user-vo5bw5wx5f Have they located the intermediate species?

[@jcm9005]

@@user-vo5bw5wx5f 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama

[@KorAllRBare]

I remember a long, long time ago reading a Paper warning researchers where they should chose to work within a Laboratory where other researchers have also been invited to do their research, their propriety could actually be compromised. The Paper warned if such a scenario ever happened it could only lead to disaster, The worse case being a hidden diabolical agenda requiring several proprieties research. I immediately understood the temptation and also the possibilities should such a scenario ever come about, So within various forums debating the matter I experienced an unusual near to an unsurmountable rebuttal and scoffing ending what I thought would end wisely due to the obvious, Oh how wrong I was, Because here we now are dealing with a virus that within months will receive the forewarned complacency that this Biological weapon will be afforded what it needs to evolve to it's full potential ..

[@Matthew-gf2vo]

COVID was found in March 2019 in Spain

[@qine6559]

Man made and man modified are two separate questions

[@youngz13o]

“China is to blame” - whatever the reason is, it doesnt matter

[@qine6559]

@@youngz13o I think that we come closer to knowledge if we know how it started. Truth is a better consolation than blame.

[@UtarEmpire]

Yes. Nice to see the question being asked 14 months after everyone else was called a racist conspiracy theorist for doing the same thing.

[@idrisnewton4552]

That's because it was guessing based on racist and prejudiced and nationalist and xenophobic ideology instead of evidence based facts. Also, in this interview the interviewees state that the evidence shows that it is possible for these things to have occurred, not that people were right before to accuse and stated that china definitely did it on purpose. Which is what everyone who was blaming Chinese people as a whole were doing, not just speculating about the actions of the specific Chinese scientists or the Chinese government. this is a false equivalence

[@stephenconway2468]

The question 14 months ago was this a developed virus as a weapon. The evidence strongly suggests that it was not. Now the question is it a leak, and yet again the evidence is we do not know. The reason it was racist 14 months was people like Trump calling it the Chinese Virus with an intention to make it racial, and to deflect from their inaction.

[@Jess-ci8re]

@@stephenconway2468 💯

[@mr.g937]

@@idrisnewton4552 Thank you for expressing that far better than I could

[@MicahFoxxMusic]

Orange Man Baaaaaaad

[@darumadaruma8801]

"Why would you release it next to your own virus lab?" Has this woman never read a mystery novel?

[@MultiSciGeek]

Here's a word from the experts The Experts: The Economist Editor 😂