Did Darth Vader Let Luke Win?

[@zekerton7262]

Dark side: emotions and hate make you stronger. Dark side: emotions and frustration make you weaker.

[@mnco5741]

Yea cause he was his son so the emotion was prolly him caring for Luke. Had it been someone else like Obi then vader's anger would help him. The type of emotion is what Matters to the sith I believe.

[@Undefined9]

@@mnco5741It didn't help him in both fights against Obi-Wan, though; he mopped the floor with Vader. Only time Vader finally got him was because he allowed him to be struck down to become something else and let Luke fulfill his destiny.

[@gonzaw8539]

Some emotions of the dark side like frustration and arrogance are very deadly, Vader lost thanks to it, and maul lost to obi wan and Ahsoka thanks to arrogance, in both cases we can say that too much dark side or that getting "consumed" by the dark side is actually an obstacle.

[@Ember2168]

It takes focusing those emotions and being in control of them to be strong with the dark side. Kylo Ren was the best example of this. By being emotionally unbalanced he was made significantly weaker, just as I believe it made Vader weaker here.

[@enriquedorneles783]

Vader never fought Obi Wan, truly hating him. In episode 3 his eyes only turn yellow after he is already defeated, and in the Obi Wan series too, when he has the His helmet is cut, his eyes are also normal, turning yellow afterwards, he wasn't channeling all his power as he should. ​@@Undefined9

[@zekerton7262]

Pretty sure Vader was just conflicted about killing his son.

[@AnakinSkywalker-qe2rk]

He was

[@johnbabylon7626]

Given the movie literally says that outright and we see it pretty clearly in Vader's actions throughout... Yeah. Can't really see any other explanation

[@albertthepeacock8020]

I mean in ANH Vader had no qualms mentally destroying her daughter and engaging in a space aerial battle with his son and in the following movie he certainly didn't think twice when he chopped off Luke's arm

[@priestesslucy]

Conflicted about _killing,_ yes. But Vader was 100% in it to win it, bringing 100% of his power and essentially all his skill (aside from dedicated kill strokes, something that would have been difficult to land on Luke regardless) to bear.

[@matthewmitchell3457]

Yeah, the way I see it is, Vader is trying to turn his son to the dark side, but he sees such a noble, loving, and determined nature in him that he can't help but respect, and it makes him feel proud of Luke despite himself. He already feels some love for Luke as both his son and one of the few remaining connections to his late wife. Eventually he doesn't feel like turning Luke to the dark side anymore, giving as an excuse that maybe he'll focus on Leia instead. However, this only redoubles Luke's anger, which might paradoxically be evidence of how much Luke's love of goodness and right is engrained in him; he's absolutely determined to prevent those he loves from being corrupted. So now Luke is gaining power in the fight by using his anger, which catches Vader off-guard by itself. But is this anger evidence that Luke is coming closer to the dark side, or is it evidence of his inconquerable determination to protect those he loves (Leia) from falling to the dark side? Furthermore, does Vader even want to turn him to the dark side if justice and compassion are such an integral part of his son? By destroying his son's love of good, is he essentially killing Luke himself? This confusion overwhelms Vader, crushing his commitment to the fight, making him physically weak. After Luke beats Vader in fight, but spares him and gives a final, resounding refusal of the dark side, both Vader and the emperor finally realize that there is just not enough darkness in Luke to ever be useful to the Empire. Having his life spared by Luke after the emperor kind of treated Vader like a tool over the years and most especially now, only deepens Vader's respect for Luke. So you can imagine what internal torture it produces to see Luke, his son and his only real connection to Padme at the moment, be slowly electrocuted by the emperor. But, he says to himself, I've always stood for the dark side and renounced the light. If I turn to the light now, I will have to acknowledge that I am a monster. If my life's work was the destruction of the light when in the end my destiny was to embrace it, then most of my life will have been devoted to making myself miserable in the end. Better to embrace the dark work I've devoted my life to. And if the darkness is my purpose, and Luke is so incorrigibly devoted to the light, then what is he to me but a hindrance to be destroyed? Luke, in a sense, is the light, so must be destroyed. But that thought brings Vader so little comfort as he watches the son he's now come to admire, whose goodness spared Vader's life, die like his mother did so many years ago. Eventually Vader is forced to conclude that Luke is worth something, and therefore the goodness that constitutes Luke must be worth something as well. The misery of facing his sins, which will inevitably come with embracing that light in his son, just does not compare to the misery of watching his son die a horrible death.

[@SithProd]

I feel like Darth Vader didn’t want to kill him because before they went to see the emperor he looked very calm with him. He’s also his own son. He would’ve felt very sad if he killed his own son

[@VadersOrder]

100%. His intention was never to kill him, but instead to sway him towards the dark side. He ultimately wanted to rule side-by-side with him and overtake Sidious!

[@BreakingIddy]

100%, it was the only part of Padme left (that Vader knew of) so he would of felt a shit ton of emotions going through their duel. But yea Vader would have crushed Luke if it was some other Jedi.

[@Rjbatz22567]

@@VadersOrder he was not angry at sidious he was frustrated with Luke not wanting to turn , him and palatine were competing to turn Luke because it would be too dangerous for either of them to 1 v 1 each other, they were at a stalemate, they needed Luke.

[@Leondrius]

Vader still would've killed Luke if he didn't turn. Vader wasn't going to return to the light, and he couldn't let Luke leave as a Jedi. The only thing left was to fight. In the end, Vader still ended up on the ground with nowhere to go, and Luke seemed to be in a dominant position earlier in the fight anyway, pushing him back and kicking him down the stairs.

[@VadersOrder]

@@Rjbatz22567 This information comes from the novel "The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader!"

[@czyprodigy]

he must have seen the parallel between this and his own fight with Dooku

[@In4inite_]

Also with grevious.

[@angerami77]

​@@In4inite_Anakin never foughy Grievous

[@jamesvan2201]

​He and the 2 that upvoted him don't know star wars​@@angerami77

[@DaroZuo]

@@angerami77you have never seen clone wars

[@angerami77]

@@DaroZuo i did, Grievous and Anakin never fought PERSONALLY

[@Ethan-Hensley]

Vader is nearly unstoppable when he taps into his anger. But that’s just it. Vader was never angry. He loved his son. And his love made him weak.

[@FohzNA]

this is the real answer

[@jasonchiu272]

That's what I was thinking. It would be silly for Vader to straight up kill the only people who are the last remnants of his lover Padme without a lot of hesitation.

[@8ddball314]

Your comment needs more likes

[@iamnooneiamnoone3591]

Yeah, it’s more like a ritual or a reflex reaction than the way he goes for his normal targets

[@zolko1986-m9z]

Well said sir.

[@user-ed1yx2fq7l]

Vader realized he was getting the Count Dooku treatment from Palpatine ‼️

[@bastienbauvineau562]

That's not working... When Vader and Luke are discussing before meeting the Emperor, Vader says "He is your master now" and he knows about Palpatine's plan to turn Luke to the Dark Side. So Vader knows it, states it, so he can't be angry by that. The only point I see in that debate is that Vader starts to have conflict in himself regarding Luke's fate. He doesn't know for sure if he'd be able to kill his own son if he didn't turn.

[@vintvarner16]

Exactly, Anakin was starting to resurface in Vader and he realized that Luke would be going down the same road he did. Plus Sideous wasn't going to just sit there and let Luke kill him

[@kalvin187douglas]

Exactly, he already knew Palpatine’s nature

[@Broshorts14]

Nah Vader was bringing his full might down onto luke

[@ironmanmark517]

@@vintvarner16yes he would? 😭 the rule of two buddy

[@marcoh703]

This is speculation from me but Vader could notice how similar this situation is when he defeated dooku and how the tables now had turned. Palpetine betrayed dooku then and palpetine would betray him now. At this moment vader/anakin saw the ultimate truth about the dark side(betrayel and backstabbing) his connection to the dark side could be shaken or even starting to break. together the conflict in himself about his son is a clusterfuck with emotions. Vader fought Luke with Anakin almost being in control again..

[@heroic3darts449]

I’ve had my own theory’s on this, one being that Vader realised something. Vader seemed somewhat hesitant in bringing Luke to the darkside. “It’s to late for me my son” Vader even stops Luke striking the emperor down in anger, we all know how much Vader wanted the emperor dead. When Vader mentioned Leia is when Luke snapped and Vader backed off. My theory is that Vader realised he turned his son to the dark side therefore making fate to be a slave to emperor like him self. Over ridden with guilt Vader couldn’t focus to defend against Luke. Luke even swings widely during his attack, missing by miles. If Vader wanted to he could’ve defeated Luke in those moments.

[@deryaergul8261]

In fact, in one of the what if stories in the legends, Darth Vader defeated Luke but could not kill his son and daughter and turned against his master.

[@earthur715]

​@@deryaergul8261 but legends have no legitimacy at all.

[@aripearlstein8100]

I also think there’s something to be said for the theory that Vader was simply caught off guard when Luke truly did let his anger get the best of him, especially considering that Vader wasn’t exactly aware of where Luke was when he came at him. Given Luke’s quick set of attacks, Vader may not have been able to recover in time. This makes even more sense given that the best way that Vader could’ve recovered was by killing Luke while he was violently swinging his lightsaber around, which Vader almost certainly didn’t want to do because his goal was never to kill Luke, but only to turn him to the dark side

[@AsgardEditz794]

I feel extremely sad for Anakin, because he gave everything he had to follow Sidious, and at the end he just throws Vader away like he's nothing. Palpatine's hunger for power never gets satisfied!! 😭😭

[@johnbabylon7626]

Not even with... ...*unlimited* power...? I'll see myself out

[@rawrtunaisgod]

I mean, it IS the way of the Sith.

[@BarlasofIndus]

He did the same to maul and dooku

[@BarlasofIndus]

He did the same to maul and dooku

[@OmniManiac05]

@@johnbabylon7626No, no you got a point. Get back in here.😂

[@steveempire4625]

The evidence strongly points to Vader knowing he was done for. He abandons his plan to team up with Luke to destroy the emperor, he tells Luke that the emperor is now his master, tells Luke it's pointless to resist, and defends the emperor against Luke's strike. The emperor, on the other hand, tells Vader that his work is finished here which was more than just his work on the Death Star, and then the emperor states it quite bluntly to Luke that he is to replace Vader as his apprentice. In the fight, Vader warns Luke not to lower his defenses, purposefully avoids killing Luke when throwing his lightsaber, and tries to bring out Luke's dark side power. This was done because Vader knew he was being replaced, accepted this fact, and was training Luke to survive for as long as possible as the emperor's new apprentice. However, Vader's near-suicidal mission ended when the emperor tried to kill Luke. For these reasons, Vader didn't "throw the fight" necessarily but he also didn't try to kill Luke at 100%. So, I would object to both the hypothesis that Vader was significantly weaker than Luke and that his feelings for his son emotionally weakened him. He was simply "training" Luke to survive and it got out of hand.

[@GafftheHorse]

Yeah, he had to have seen that Palpatine was trading him in for a newer apprentice just as he replaced Dooku and that Dooku was killed by his own hand. Even if Luke turning didn't see him dead, by the rule of two Palpatine could not let him live. But of course Anakin was in there too and his feelings were weakening Vader and while he too was willing to sacrifice himself, his desired outcome was to save his son from his hated master.

[@FoolishPrince]

Wisest comment I've seen this far.

[@steveempire4625]

@@uatu_the_watcher He said it was unwise to lower your defenses right before he attacked.

[@kepabra3782]

​@@uatu_the_watcher"It is unwise to lower your defenses!" Vader before striking Luke again, before the scene where Luke tries to dialogue with Vader again and him throwing his saber at him.

[@jeffj6815]

When Vader tossed his light Saber at Luke, Luke moved out of the way. Had Luke not moved...he would have been decapitated. Watch it closely.

[@123-g8d3m]

Vader: wait a second this peace of shxt did the same thing when I fought Dooku !

[@EbeeDeeby]

I guess the trick to beating Anakin/Vader that nobody tried was to just spaz out and club his lightsaber with your own like it's a baseball bat until he gets tired and falls over

[@karlgustav999]

I can suspend my disbelief on that. Luke's a super Jedi or something.

[@Ryanthebrobdingnagian]

If you're serious, you missed the point

[@GabrielSamantha-z3w]

Starkiller and Luke found the cheat code to beat Vader. It's called mashing the "X / square button" Just keep bashing him with your lightsaber while he's on the ground they both did it and it worked

[@theunknowncell442]

There's a multitude of theories when it comes to analyzing the fight from beginning to end. There's also a theory that the reason why Vader protected the emperor, was because Anakin was instinctively preventing his son from truly embracing the dark side. Although Vader's intentions were to turn his son to the dark side, you can clearly see the internal battle between him, and Anakin. Vader was the weakest he had ever been while fighting Luke.

[@Roadrunner4life.]

Dang Vader. You really don't know how to get out of an abusive relationship. 😂

[@frederikspudnik1792]

Lucas also confirmed Anakin and Luke are equally force gifted (Leia too), Luke's training and experience had grown significantly since Empire, and even going back to the Trench Run, Luke has never been a non-factor in a fight. (Remember, Vadar, the best star polit in the galaxy, couldn't pop a shot on him.) Now Vadar has more experience and training but he is in an inferior suit fighting a son he is conflicted over emotionally because he loves him. Remember, Luke is Anakin 2.0. That was the whole point.

[@coolcaleb9939]

I saw how in Return of the Jedi how Vader just fell down and had Luke hit his lightsaber over and over. I have wondered if the actor did it on purpose, tripped on the cape, or he was supposed to

[@KosheiDeathless]

Yeah. That part was reeeeaally strange

[@Dick_Dastardly4_7]

Throughout the prequels and clone wars we see Anakin do the same thing to overpower his enemies.

[@KosheiDeathless]

@@Dick_Dastardly4_7 i meant the part where Vader strangely "tripped"

[@joel5135]

Probably because of his big ass suit

[@modev4163]

Nah that's the number one scene in all Star wars i want george to explain😂

[@DarkMetalOmega]

Vader dodging frantically at the end there "Oh shit, his stats are way higher than I thought..."

[@Seph-u8d]

He needed his Cervesa Cristal.

[@BrickBrickProductions]

I don’t think he could stand to loose another family member, and especially one who is part Padme.

[@kenbrown2808]

it occurs to me that in learning about Luke's sister, it may have sunk in how much Palpatine twisted things to manipulate him, too.

[@BrickBrickProductions]

We forget why Aiken is even a with.

[@TheStarTrekApologist]

Vader loss because he suggested turn Leia to the dark side. This enraged Luke to the point that he drew on the dark side to beat him. But when he had the chance to think he rejected the dark side.

[@the_secondo8266]

Exactly people always trying to be smarter by searching for explanations that were already explained 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@SoraRaida]

​@the_secondo8266 right? The answer is very obvious already

[@marcclay9125]

Seeing the other comments and this video pisses me off

[@Broshorts14]

And in the canon ROTJ novelization it literally says that Vader was being his full might down onto Luke proving ROTJ is Vaders prime

[@Buttington_Headerson]

Luke was just that strong. That’s why gets that badass intro sequence at Jabba’s. His training is complete. Vader literally says that later.

[@Broshorts14]

@@Buttington_Headerson it also says that Luke lacked Obiwan and yoda’s lightsaber training bro.

[@thiago292]

​@@Broshorts14what he lacked in conventional training he made up for in experience and raw potential Between ESB and RoTJ there's roughly a year where Luke spends his time fighting and training, even learning how to build his own saber (If I'm not mistaken that is cannon in both EU and Disney)

[@Broshorts14]

@@thiago292 my point still stands, Luke was padawan level in the canon and then got higher up after ROTJ

[@FoolishPrince]

I don't have the book anymore: but I'm pretty sure where it says "Vader is in his prime", is earlier in the novel when he is walking with palpatine after Palpatines arrival aboard the Death Star, and isn't related to Vaders duel with Luke. If I'm wrong, please correct me with that excerpt you described.

[@hunterkiller1440]

"Your frustration has unbalanced you. That is not the Master way, is it?"

[@chrisrocha2150]

It’s a total mirror of when palpatine was rooting for Anakin to defeat Dooku as well

[@SaltySalt69]

He may not be Anakin anymore but he never quite got ahold of his emotions. I couldn’t even imagine how badass he would’ve been had he been able to control them

[@eliminator1472]

Well he is when he’s fighting pretty much everyone that he doesn’t know or care about

[@Reverend-Race-Horsey]

Like Lords Voldemort or Frieza! 🦹🏿

[@TisDansk]

He kinda did in the time period of rogue one and anh it was more when he discovered Luke was his son that the cracks started to form

[@maestrulgamer9695]

Vader knew Palpatine expected him to end up like Dooku.

[@countryman032]

People have been over complicating this for decades. Vader lost because Luke's attack during his burst of anger overwhelmed him.

[@johnnydoe9169]

Bullshit....Reva used anger and rage in her fight versus Kenobi....Vader toyed with her like a cat playing with a mouse

[@countryman032]

@@johnnydoe9169 Luke and Vader have roughly the same force potential. Reva has nothing to do with this.

[@Blizzardholocron]

The dark side: your anger and hatred make you stronger Also the dark side: it’s gonna fuck you over!

[@daysand123]

Vader literally had that "WHY DO YOU DO THIS EVERY FUCKING TIME!?" moment.

[@ww021883]

Ever considered the fact that Darth Vader was probably just getting old

[@gcolson3388]

Oh? Is forty-five really all that old?

[@Opdudall]

It also could have given him memories of when palpatine tried the same thing on him vs dooku which lead to him becoming the apprentice so he didn’t wanna be replaced cuz he knew what happens next

[@williamdavies7457]

Agreed 👍

[@calebfederico-dyer8837]

At 0:48 I love it how Vader turns and looks at Luke like “what did you do this time?” Vibe

[@redrick8900]

Vader never strikes at Luke the entire fight.

[@42backscratchpsapy86]

I don't know.... Anakin / Vader is the #1 duelist. Luke couldn't have beaten him that easily

[@albertthepeacock8020]

Rey Skywalker solos both GG

[@priestesslucy]

It wasn't exactly easy. Until Luke tapped into the dark side and straight overpowered him.

[@faiqamel4005]

Your going to get rekt, good luck​@@albertthepeacock8020

[@joel5135]

Yes he could. The choreography just didn't age Well. Read Skywalker a family at war. Luke OVERPOWERD Vader

[@42backscratchpsapy86]

@joel5135 Are you stinking saying that a barely-trained kids could beat a master of both dark and light, and who's the MF chosen one??

[@LonelyKnight10]

It is related to real life, when you do something with emotion, frustrating & too forcing, the result will be mess. So this one as an example. 👍👍🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@George-pp2hr]

No. Lukes emotions for Leia's safety enraged him that moment making him overpower Vader. Burst of anger and rage.👍✌️🌟💫✨

[@User345-2p2]

Oh yeah he threatened leia that’s why Luke raged

[@DBUniverse11]

He only said that to show Luke the power he would possess if he joined the Dark side, he definitely didn’t want leia involved, I believe he wanted Luke to join him so he could defeat the emperor and have power for himself.. and him and his son would be the ruling the universe

[@JaylaisAwesome]

Vader saw Padme in Luke, I mean, would you kill your own son that reminds you of your wife?

[@MuffinOfChaos]

I personally think Vader didn't want to kill his son, but most of all, he didn't want him to become like him. Yes, he'd goad, but when Luke started using his anger, I like to think Anakin saw himself in Luke at that moment and the idea his son could become the monster he had turned into terrified him.

[@Adarkane325xi]

The duel in RotJ was meant to show Luke’s power. While Luke was outmatched and struggled in Empire, he goes through Vader like tissue paper - twice. Keep in mind that he‘s completely calm when he knocks Vader down the stairs.

[@thetribalist6923]

George Lucas has said they’re more evenly matched in this fight. Vader was holding back big time as was Luke. Neither guy wanted to actually hurt the other, but Vader was still likely the stronger here. When Luke attacked him full force Vader stopped defending because he wanted his son to serve his old master.

[@RepublicOfBridger]

I remember in the novel he was very conflicted but he did say he was going all out because of how dangerous Luke was. It’s hard to tell based on this description where Vader was actually able to give it his peak based on his conflict.

[@bru5142]

Nah the real answer is that he was conflicted to hurt his son and about being in the dark side and we know in star wars universe conflicted= you being at 20% of your power

[@jimmycombs8159]

No? In the novelizations of ROTJ it's said that Vader was both in his prime, and going all out on Luke. Vader lost when he threatened Luke with capturing Leia and turning her, and Luke's strikes were so powerful after that they were taking years off Vader's life even when he was parrying. Vader didn't actually think about turning to the light until Luke refused the emperor, something that Vader could never do

[@phenomeninja1855]

Vader got his ass whooped by fighting a fully trained Jedi master .

[@daletruby3262]

And none of what you just said happened in the movie. Luke beat vader using anger after Vader threatened to go after his sister. Vader had to step his combat up because Luke came at him hard.

[@Blizzardholocron]

That’s because of the novelization, which gives a more in-depth view on what happens, Vader threatening Leía was just his final string, right after that, he let loose and listened to what the emperor said

[@thejetttrek]

I agree I hate it when they base the events on what a comic that came out 20 years later said

[@tbducky4136]

@@Blizzardholocronthe novelization states luke was, better, Vader was going all out and Luke was the one holding back lol. Regardless what he said in the video is bs

[@Blizzardholocron]

@@tbducky4136 the novelization doesn’t say anything about it, well, it does, but it never specifies if he’s going all out, Vader is said in the movie to be conflicted, and George Lucas, for some reason said that Vader is stronger than him. Not to mention, the novels are soft canon, the movies and direct statements are literal canon, unless it was changed which it has yet to be.

[@tbducky4136]

@@Blizzardholocron I can literally give you all actual statments from canon and legends and the novelization that say he was vey much trying and Luke was very much holding back even Vader noted it. Conflict also doesn’t mean not trying. Lucas has directly stated in an interview luke was just as conflicted as vader and writing Luke’s conflict was the hardest part of the scene, he also never said Vader was stronger than Luke he literally said vaders motives were completely selfish and his goal was to beat Luke so he could then team up with I’m to beat the empire, regardless he had no intention of losing to him. I own just about all Star Wars media and have made a list for people every time I here “Vader was holding back” or “Vader let Luke win” and Luke said vader was conflicted, then vader stated after “there is no conflict” and told Luke if he wouldn’t join he’d die. I can send the quotes if you want them

[@BlazeBlaze210]

Darth Vader: Nah im using 0.000000000000001% of my power☠️☠️☠️

[@WakenAngels]

Yall think about this harder than Lucas ever did

[@ricekrispy3933]

Real shit

[@JRMAV1]

Cause Lucas said it

[@JRMAV1]

Vader meat riders just can’t accept the truth

[@YodaInASweater]

Lucas wrote a comic where Vader was being targeted by assassins from Sidious… he confronted him and Sidious said “it’s what we sith do gang, srry” Vader was big mad

[@TaitsRevenge]

@@YodaInASweater 💀💀😂

[@NoxAtlas]

Try to see it from Vader's perspective: Palpatine has been a father figure for him ever since he was freed from slavery and he always wanted his approval because he didn't feel appreciated by the Jedi Order. He went through so much and now has to fight his own son. He hoped that Luke would join him so he could have the family he always wanted. And then, he realized that Palpatine was about to throw him away like a broken toy and use his son as a replacement. The same thing that happened with Dooku. It definitely shook him to his core. Not only was he shocked that Palpatine abandoned him, but he began to realize that Luke would enter the same toxic cycle of pain and anger that he had been trapped in.

[@bradrose15]

Or was Vader remembering this being eerily similar to his own duel with Dooku years ago?

[@williamj.dovejr.8613]

He was not the same duelist as he was the first time he fought Luke..he was slower, older, and he tired early in the rematch. Luke's power and focus had grown..he was now a true threat to Vader.

[@Sonicz0]

Still the best duel in Star Wars. So much emotion in that fight and the score.

[@yeetmeister3055]

I think this is HALF true. Yes vader was angry and frustrated that palpatine was choosing luke over him, however in a vacuum with this being what only happened this wouldve actually strengthened vader as the dark side feeds off of such emotions, steeling his resolve to win the fight. Theres actually two parts to this, where Luke point out on Endor how even before the fight there was still a conflict in vader on what to do. He didnt want to kill his son, one part of him wanted to prove himself to palpatine while the other didnt want to kill his son. With these two sides pulling vader apart you can see how he can appear weak or exhausted. You can actually see this conflict take its toll on Vader very early on as well, if you go back to the Endor scene i mentioned early after Luke is out of sight of Vader you can see Vader immediately slouch his shoulders and go to a railling for support, all tell tale signs of a man emotionally exhausted after the encounter. Just TALKING to Luke was enough to emotionally exhaust him let alone fight.

[@tylerespinoza1993]

He probably had a little flashback to Dooku and recognized he was repeating the goading he did with him in the Dooku fight with Luke.

[@dgerdi]

The clue with strong negative emotions is as followed: First hate and anger make you stronger. But they take their toll and over time, they drain your inner power and leave you hollow. That is the deception of the dark side.

[@macweber]

He was letting go of his hate and losing the dark side while Luke was tapping into his anger and getting stronger.

[@marcelolopes735]

Kinda makes sense You did explain comics of darth vader trying to avoid his emotions He only wants anger

[@Q.The_Demon]

Besides, Luke too fell to the power of hatred for a moment

[@Ketooey]

Iirc, in the novelization, it's said that every strike Lule threw during his rally was taking years off of Vader's life, even through Vader's blocking. The sheer force of each blow was just rocking through his body and really piling on damage.

[@ethanragbir8311]

It's stated that Vader was trying to kill him, but they were even matched duelists. It was only after Luke tapped into the darkside he defeated him.

[@EternalDaybreak]

I know that there has been a long-standing debate amongst fans regarding Darth Vader's actions in Return of The Jedi. In my opinion, based on the lore and Darth Vader's character development, he was growing increasingly distant from his Master, Emperor Palpatine. This was not the first time that Palpatine had tried to replace Vader, as he had done it multiple times throughout the 20-year history of The Empire. The cracks in their relationship began to show after the events of A New Hope, when Vader was blamed for the destruction of the Death Star, even though it was Tarkin's fault due to his hubris and unwillingness to take the Rebellion seriously. Tarkin only received orders from Palpatine, and not even Vader could truly order him around at that point. As a result, Vader began to believe that there was no place for him in The Empire, since his own Master couldn't see past his pride and ego to acknowledge that the mistakes were his and not Vader's. When Vader found out that Luke was his son, it shattered his world and he became solely focused on bringing Luke to his side. During Return of the Jedi, Vader could have easily killed his son, as Luke was only at the level of a Jedi Knight. Luke knew this, which is why his goal was to convince his father to rejoin the light side, rather than directly fighting him. If Vader had chosen to stop trying to convert his son and just defeat him outright, Luke had no chance of winning. Keep in mind that Vader had hunted Jedi for over 20 years, defeating many masters and becoming a master of all forms of lightsaber combat. I'm not trying to undersell Luke, but during Return of the Jedi, he simply wasn't powerful enough to defeat Vader. However, Vader had no intention of harming his son, as Luke was the remnants of what he had with Padme, and that was something Vader couldn't bear to lose, even if it meant his own death.

[@priestesslucy]

Only at the _rank_ of a Jedi Knight Tester yes. But like his father before him Luke completely blows the top off the power scales. By a much higher degree than Annie.

[@EternalDaybreak]

@@priestesslucy We don't see any feat that would suggest Luke is anywhere near Anakin's level as Jedi Knight by the time of ROTJ and Anakin should have been Master by that point but The Jedi council refused so that's not valid point and yes Luke does become more powerful but much later after ROTJ and not before.

[@priestesslucy]

@@EternalDaybreak the problem with 'feats' is the difference in technology and choreography between the OST and the PT. If you're going to reject his victory over Vader (a legitimate, honest victory against an equal outside the fandumb that can't handle Luke's growth) then there is not much without dipping into supplemental material.

[@EternalDaybreak]

@@priestesslucy I am not judging their duel based on the technology of the time during the original trilogy. I am using source material that we can rely on, which shows that Luke was not capable enough to kill Vader or Palpatine. While it might have been a bit closer in Legends, canon shows that Darth Vader became more powerful with each passing day, which even surprised Palpatine, as he didn't think Vader could get more powerful after the injuries he sustained while fighting Obi-Wan. I'm sorry, but there is much more lore to back up Vader than there is for Luke in this instance."

[@priestesslucy]

@@SidiousNegsValkorion Even the film script

[@lazurusredd8682]

Not to mention Vader probably had a flashback of when he faced count dooku in front of palpatine and felt like he was in the same position as dooku

[@AbnielCorrea]

Vader doesnt want to kill him, he wanted to convert Luke to the dark side. In fact he loved his son and that emotion made him weaker.

[@Grathom15]

It was love that was the true power in star wars. if you think love is a weakness, i would recommend re-examining that philosophy.

[@originalw01theonlyone]

They just didn't have the same coriography for lightsaber duels as they do now

[@HasanKhan67481]

For every like on this comment I will donate 1 kidney

[@Coolguy_4220]

Like yours or.....

[@HasanKhan67481]

@@Coolguy_4220 does it matter?

[@fupaking7717]

Its best not to ask.. lmao​@user-jt3er3qm7o

[@Da-random_boy]

😳

[@EternalDaybreak]

It looks like you are all out of Kidneys Lol

[@JRMAV1]

Lucas said they were equals, end of story. Vader or Disney meat riders are both wrong.

[@ultimatestarwarsgeek7603]

It also just makes the most sense within the story. If Luke was actually weaker and incapable of beating Vader on equal footing, it’d make Yoda absolutely horrible for sending Luke to fight him.

[@Blizzards_holocron]

And yet he also said that Vader was more powerful in an interview about why kids love Vader, so his statements are not exactly consistent

[@oodal_]

What a terrifying yet elegant being

[@volbound1700]

People keep missing this, George Lucas had a clear message here. Darth Vader was getting older, was out of practice by not having fought a lot of Jedi since they were all dead, and Luke was rising up quickly. It is youth against age. Luke had the stronger energy and force around him. People say Vader was conflicted but so was Luke. Also Vader was conflicted in Empire but that didn't stop him from ruthlessly fighting Luke and cutting off his hand.

[@raggarbergman]

We also have to add that Vader was still suffering from his injuries from his duel with Obi-Wan on Mustafar. Even if the prequels wasn't made when Return of the jedi came out, Lucas still had the idea of Vader being damaged wish we see already in Empire Strikes Back when he get the helmet put on.

[@DylanZ1201]

I feel like it was a combination of Vader not wanting to harm his son, and he was holding back/trying to turn Luke and the fact that Luke for the 1st time tapped into the dark side and this drastically increased his power temporarily.

[@shotty2164]

I think you’re overthinking something that’s already basically proven. It was his son and he was conflicted about killing him

[@VadersOrder]

Source can always be found in the description! 😊

[@immortal5812]

Luke was OVERTLY and OBVIOUSLY holding back, switching his saber off in the middle of the fight and declaring that he didn't want to fight him. Vader was never a match for Luke at this point.

[@LordReem0]

Vader had flashbacks to Revenge of the Sith when Palpatine turned on Dooku. Lol

[@euhahahah]

That is bullshit

[@Tyler26016]

How

[@euhahahah]

@@Tyler26016 overthinking

[@angads1895]

Every single time Vader fights someone he knows, he always loses because of the conflict

[@KomamuraSajin]

The explanation is terrible and inconsistent writing throughout this franchise. At some point they made Jedi and Sith just too powerful and it makes them look laughably weak by comparison in the original trilogy. It also makes it seem super implausible that the Jedi could ever be taken down by the clones, or the Emperor could ever be so easily killed in ROTJ. But it doesn't matter, George Lucas himself said he made Star Wars for children. None of this needs to make sense as long as there's a lot of flashy colored lights and their parents buy them merch. Kids love politics, by the way, that's why the prequels were so successful.

[@wassup6877]

i aint reading allat 🔥

[@MadridistaDeCono]

Vader held back. He didnt want his son to get consumed by anger by killing the emperor, he also knew he wouldn't fall so easily.

[@BleezyB]

When someone convinces you to join the other side then has you under the impression that they’re rooting against you after you served them bountifully I’d imagine it takes a toll on you psychologically.

[@SonOfTheChinChin]

anikan/vader was at the strongest when he didn't use emotions. but when he fought someone he had connection with, he became reckless

[@ryebread105]

Vader saw the hopelessness in the situation. If he killed Luke, he would have lost his son and would still be serving the emperor. If he let Luke win, the emperor would replace him with Luke. Thankfully, Luke was able to resist and allowed Vader a chance to redeem himself.

[@Dude_Ness]

"your need to prove yourself will be your undoing Anakin"

[@thediam0nddrag0n78]

Jealousy. An emotion I did not think Vader still had

[@FoolishPrince]

"i wonder if your consciousness is clear on this, Lord Vader?"- Palpatine Vader Knew all along what was going on, c'mon now.

[@priestesslucy]

It wasn't his emotions that became his weakness, it was his injuries. Luke would have needed at least another decade to catch up to Vader had he remained whole. As it was, we got the classic story of the son surpassing the father, as a little bow tied ontop of the greater story of compassion and redemption.

[@SansoHumar]

I’m so glad you were there inside his mind to tell us this.

[@rayonhughes6696]

As sinister as Vader was, Luke was still his son. I believe his was conflicted as Luke said he was. Palpatine wanted him on the "Dark Side" no matter how it was done. He also said, "take your father's place at my side."

[@charliechaplin2561]

He remembered how Palpatine did Dooku.

[@potatoheadpokemario1931]

If Vader let Luke win then clearly he haven't learned from Dooku

[@jackskellingtonsfollower3389]

Luke's words also played into his defeat. He was being torn from both sides. Questioning his loyalty to Sidious while also struggling to avoid killing his own son; the one person who saw through his hatred and called out to him.

[@achimpanzee9210]

In legends it’s actually explained how Luke was stronger due to his rage but also because Vader was conflicted due to the knowledge of him being his son.

[@MachineMan-on4ul]

I always took it the other way. After his taunting, it gave Luke a boost due to tapping into his anger and hatread. The way way he relentlessly wailes on Vader after, pushing him back. Even the music cues give you the impression Luke could be slipping to a darker path if he isn't careful. Even comparing his own metal hand to vaders missing one after Sidious tells Luke to strike Vader down.

[@Triple6KillaYT]

No I’m pretty sure Vader just couldn’t bring himself to kill his son. Let me explain, when Vader was taking Luke to Palpatine, he said “I see you’ve constructed a new saber” and as he ignited it and seen the green blade, he was proud of Luke, he seen how much Luke had grown in such little time since their last face to face. Green sabers are usually wielded by those who are very strong in the force. Not only that, I believe Vader was proud that Luke didn’t fall to the dark side as easily as he did, Luke wasn’t going to let the dark side control him. I think Vader was jealous when Palpatine was rooting for Luke to win but that’s not the reason he lost. Vader loved Padme, he could never destroy what they created together.

[@bandras97]

Vader wasn’t weak at all. After all, he was one of the most feared man in the galaxy for a reason. The reason he lost the fight against Luke was that he was already very conflicted about turning/having to kill his son. Partly because he was one of his last few connections to Padmé, and partly because he must’ve reminded him so much of his younger self. Also, a lot of people seem to forget that Vader had always been so powerful because of all the anger and hatred that was fueling the Dark Side in him, which essentially had been keeping him alive. That anger and hatred wasn’t there against Luke, instead his love and caring for him came through, ultimately weakening his connection to the Dark Side, which, in turn, made him lose what had been keeping him alive for so long.

[@angelamoseley889]

“It turned out it was his emotions that became his ultimate weakness” wow that sounds familiar he never learned😢😢

[@avadoksorem2854]

Vader did react with alarm when Luke did charge with anger after claiming his sister would fall to the dark side. And keep in mind, it had always been Vader who was intimidating and on the offensive in virtually every duel he’s been in. Luke charging him with rage without fear was a first time experience for him that he never could have prepared himself for. He was practically on his knees just before he lost his hand, showing how Luke’s relentless assault was exhausting him. Possibly even terrifying him. He held out his remaining hand as if pleading for mercy after the blow was struck. A show of fear. Luke ended up terrifying Vader in the end.

[@PastaMaster115]

Though he blindly followed every order Palpatine gave, he still resented the man. He knew that he was the reason why Padme was taken from him. It was that anger that kept him going all this time. He wasn't about to lose his son to this maniac too.

[@TheLaughTribe]

I think Vader just didn’t want to hit the Death Star walls 🌑

[@gtopnotch6012]

That's the thing about the sith ways. Passion, attachment, and emotions were no necessarily wrong, but how you utilized them made the difference between understanding your current state in the force and being mindful to overcome turmoil versus allowing the hate and trauma consume you.

[@jummyran]

You can see the crack in the bar that makes it look like when the luke green saber hits it to make it look like it’s cut in half.

[@samgott8689]

Bro, you were like, RIGHT there, then dropped the ball. The whole point was to turn Luke to the Dark Side by goading him into killing his father (a man he believes isn't beyond redemption) in anger. The dialogue between him and Vader during the fight (really, all of their dialogue together in RotJ) heightens the stake by revealing that he's not wrong, and Vader himself doesn't want to kill Luke, either. So, there you have it: father and son, forced into a lightsaber fight that neither of them wants to be in; they're being manipulated into it by a twisted old f*ck. Its the whole emotional climax of the trilogy and is the moment where Luke learns from his failures in Empire and what it means to be a Jedi. You see, it's not about rushing off to fight the bad guy with a laser sword - that's the path to the Dark Side - but the power and wisdom of compassion, forgiveness, and self-sacrifice. Shockingly emotional and mature stuff from what would otherwise just be bland, generic, sci-fi action schlock. See, the beauty of it all is that in Luke's arc and how it could have gone, we can see well enough how a good man like Anakin became evil. No awkward and mind-numbingly boring prequels needed. Everything you need to know and the emotional stakes for Luke's and Vader's arc is all contained in Luke's training on Dagobah and culminates when he cuts Vader's hand off, sees its a robot prosthesis like his, and realizes, "oh, THATS what that crazy ass vision in the cave was all about! My self-righteous anger IS turning me into Vader!". That was the magic of Star Wars: then they flushed it all down the toilet and turned it into a video game lol.

[@franco_setti]

The explanation is: OLD MOVIE. Just that. They did what they could with what they have

[@harleykennedy7922]

The way they done that fight scene in the movie makes it look like he lost on purpose xD

[@gandalfgrey91]

If you don’t understand mythology then it can be confusing but its simple: Father finds out he’s going to have children, father fears for his mortality, father fights to maintain his position as the primary figure by making a deal with the devil, son grows up and ultimately defeats father, son spares his father because he loves him, father realizes that this love is more important than power, father “kills” the devil and the atonement occurs, father then passes on in peace, accepting his fate. So the reason Luke was able to defeat his father is because every son does; it’s the rite of manhood.

[@hippothehippo]

The better story explanation is that Vader realized and saw himself in Luke’s rage, realizing he didn’t want his son to suffer as he had, he lost heart in the battle and fell so that Luke would get the chance he never did: the chance for mercy.

[@jacoburquidez4527]

Emotions has always been his biggest weakness. He cares too much even as Vader

[@1ku0k]

He had a flashback to the Dooku fight, except now he's Dooku