Did Humans Create God? | With Peter Kreeft

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Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and Peter Kreeft explore the concepts of Gods creation, if He came from man, and mans fascination with killing him.
Dr. Kreeft is a professor in the field of Philosophy, and teaches at Boston College and the King’s College in New York. When Dr. Kreeft was a student, he was asked to examine Catholicism which led to his conversion. He’s written more than eighty books on the subject, such as “Handbook of Christian Apologetics” and “Socrates Meets Jesus.”
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: utm.io/ueSFn
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[@DerekHerbst747]

"You did not create the universe. How can you write the laws of morality any more than you can write the laws of physics" There's your whole interview right there. Mind blown!

[@John.Christopher]

Jordan seriously just needs to take a leap of faith and submit to God in prayer ... He'll never find God purely epistemologically...

[@thabisobrendonmaseko4064]

How sure are we that he hasn't?

[@tylerm1320]

Correct, but the laws of physics were discovered, not by faith, but by active minds using the process of induction (reasoning based on observation). The same approach should be taken to defining morality. This is the proper task of philosophers - sadly, real philosophers are scarce in modern times.

[@robinsss]

@@tylerm1320 no morality is subjective so there is no objective morality but ma controls society so he controls the creation of the rules of his society

[@DerekHerbst747]

@@tylerm1320 the laws of physics were discovered exactly by faith. Faith that the laws of physics are predictable and repeatable. This faith stands only in lack of evidence to the contrary.

[@Jerry.anthony.c]

1:20 - 2:05 - Discovery of self values 4:10 - Discovery NOT imposition 4:50 - Tragic and Malevolet. Life 5:30 - Love. 6:20 - Misunderstanding of FREEDOM 6:50 - I which I (Future) 7:40 - Game of Freedom with student 10:00 - Atheist and Desire 10:36 - We want unlimited truth, goodness and beauty. 👌🏼👏🏽

[@Milestonemonger]

I thoroughly enjoy listening to Peter Kreeft.

[@tompommerel2136]

The last utterance of JP could also be used to describe how a cynic develops. A sensitive child with certain expectations percieves that these were denied/withheld to such an extent that this trauma has frozen them into a self-perpetuating protectiveness.

[@tylerm1320]

This scenario could be easily applied to a person of faith: a person with hedonistic parents traumatizes them, thus they turn to faith as a solution. This type of argument isn’t effective because they can’t validate or invalidate a belief-they only explain the origin of the belief. Identifying an antecedent psychological trigger does not change the truth or falsehood of a conclusion.

[@madra000]

Go one step further and look into the shroud of Turin analysis by Barry Schwartz. I have no explanation for it. I would like you to keep this attitude, which I think you are correct in identifying if a opinion of belief is to be conclusive. But how'd you explain Turin? And its implications

[@tylerm1320]

@@madra000 not an archeologist. My opinion on that exact issue would be of no value in that field. From an epistemological standpoint, I would just say that all valid conclusions require perceptually available evidence upon which a rational judgment can be made.

[@nette9836]

Please stop projecting. Skeptics/atheists are simply people who have been presented with extraordinary claims and reject them based on logic and reason. Just like you, likely, reject the plausibility of any other god/goddess out there. But because, some choose to reject one's preferred god, that's why one can tend to get rather defensive and irrational. That's also where these absolutely projecting and outrageous claims come from...

[@tompommerel2136]

@@nette9836 You presume far too much.

[@commscompany1502]

WoW couldn’t believe my eyes ! Been listening and reading prof Kreeft for years! Now to see him here with JP! What a joy . Thank you

[@1960taylor]

If Jordan would let him get a word in…lol

[@godwin3101]

“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” St Thomas Aquinas

[@tyton3]

God exists and his name is Jesus Christ.

[@Alec0124]

well gosh, I bet god read this comment and was like you got it. You're going to heaven. Good show ol chap.

[@tyton3]

@@Alec0124 the only reason I’m going to heaven is because the Lord Jesus Christ shed his precious blood to redeem me. To God be the glory!

[@carllucas89]

@@tyton3 God bless

[@carllucas89]

@@Alec0124 anything else, kid?

[@Xbalanque84]

You are not wrong.

[@banquo80s99]

Fascinating exchange between two of the most important intellectuals of our time...Listening to both is like a journey through a tunnel of a series of INSIGHTS where each one convincingly leads you to the next and the next and the next...it's like mental calisthenics of the philosophical level...WOW...God bless you both and thank God we have these in our time in the midst of the culture of death and godlessness......Love lots from Manila

[@Cinderella227]

Absolutely loved it! Thank you both and God bless. ✝️❤️

[@Ultimate.Meaning]

Blessings!

[@Cinderella227]

@@Ultimate.Meaning Blessings to you as well. ✝️🙏🏻🕊

[@asamtaviajando8388]

Just amazingly precise.

[@rickm5853]

Atheists don't wish for God to be true because judgement scares them. As a Christian, I fear this as well. I fear it because I know I do not deserve forgiveness. I thank the Lord for His Grace.

[@timothyjones5959]

This is a dream come true for me. Participating in a Jordan Peterson & Peter Kreeft philosophical conversation. December 14, 2022

[@dannyreborn]

Thank you both, God bless you.

[@taylorhicks8473]

I really want to see a conversation between Jordan and NT Wright on many of these matters.

[@John-bv2ft]

Learning so much

[@5tw3b45tcf]

I think a good definition of freedom is really needed right now. A definition that slow and/or uninterested people can understand.

[@zrx8966]

Most often, I listen to my angels and demons and act in the most logical way. However, sometimes spontaneous thoughts come to act without any thought or logical processes. When I act on that, I have watched beautiful things unfold as a result, things that could not have been predicted or planned. This has opened my understanding of why people in the past have said God has spoken to them. Still, I am skeptical of this but will continue to explore. Does anyone know of books or videos related to the topic of why one might believe a thought to be interpreted/misinterpreted as the Devine speaking to you? Thanks, and thank you Dr. Peterson for your wonderful talk.

[@geneticsmatter3834]

I always love a good criticism of “freedom” as it is normally thought of in the United States

[@the2ndcoming135]

“I don’t want there to be a God. I don’t want there to be a heaven. I would be threatened by that.”😎

[@josephtravers777]

As well as 'love'. The Western world dwells on 'eros' and not 'agape'.

[@theologyofthebody2870]

I praise God for Dr. Peterson’s health

[@Randall2023]

Love ❤️ Jordan B Peterson

[@canoedoc2390]

Being deliberately deceived and wounded by someone who claims to be motivated out of compassion and altruism is the very definition of evil. Evil is the deceitful weaponization of love.

[@bleececeeby]

Ex. Pharisees/Judas Iscariot

[@carolinegjervoldstad823]

Very good. ❤

[@dnhg9730]

Jordan, have you talked about Hegel's philosophy (Phänomenologie des Geistes)? If so, where?

[@History_MadeMe_Catholic]

“For the normative self-understanding of modernity, Christianity has functioned as more than just a precursor or catalyst. Universalistic egalitarianism, from which sprang the ideals of freedom and a collective life in solidarity, the autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, the individual morality of conscience, human rights and democracy, is the direct legacy of the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of a continual critical reappropriation and reinterpretation. Up to this very day there is no alternative to it. And in light of the current challenges of a post-national constellation, we must draw sustenance now, as in the past, from this substance. Everything else is idle postmodern talk.” -Sociologist, Jürgen Habermas

[@daveyofyeshua]

1:00 Noted 2000 years ago in scripture 🤦🏾‍♂️ 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.

[@ragingsilence7]

We try to create a "god" in our own distorted, worldly and corrupted image. God knows we're lost. ( Jesus is the way, the truth and the life) John 14:6

[@robzilla69]

Nietzsche has the same theological doctrine as Satin. They match perfectly. " I will be like the most high God".

[@ronaldogaro3575]

I wish more people admitted this

[@saltburner2]

Actually there are three options: God made us, we made God, and God (or faith) is a place-server for that which we hope to understand. I opt for the third. Anselm's Fides quaerens intellectum (faith seeking understanding, or faith seeking intelligence) is a useful tool, whether or not there is a God.

[@robzilla69]

@@saltburner2 There are ZERO options. There is only 1 truth, the rest is a lie.

[@Rudzani]

Right, but one of them is a person that actually existed and the other is the antagonistic character in a fictive book.

[@robzilla69]

@@Rudzani How do you know who exists and doesn't? How do you know I exist? Your statement is illogical.

[@josephl6289]

I'll check out Hallow, thank you sir.

[@paulineliste4545]

Please ask yourself why Hallow has seemed like something you want to engage with? Following deadens the heart.

[@mariadelcarmenmiranda2499]

Love Peter Kreeft, he is a profound thinker.Bright idea to have him to debate God's existence In the episode of The burning bush Moses asks God his name, but He won't reveal it to him.He just says I AM THAT I AM. There's power in a name, the power to identify, to symbolize, to describe but most importantly TO TAME, to control. When God refuses to give Mosess His name He is saying" I won't be tamed, I won't be controlled by your límited thoughts and conventions.I will become what chose to. In Jordan' s words I won't be your buttler or your puppet He is describing Himself as the Lord, and he is thus reminding us that we are His creatures, not His creators.We spend our lives fighting with God like Jacob, we want to subdue God but He won't have it

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

No, God did give Moses his name. That was his name. You need to read that again.

[@diegorodriguez5046]

If you know what’s better, and you want the best for you, why don’t you do what you know is better?

[@deplorablemexican150]

Most curious

[@annualblood3032]

Saw the thumbnail before I saw the title and immediately thought JP was referring to Trudeau 😂

[@sadjeebis]

You, DR JORDAN PETERSON, are truely a MAGNIFICENT MAN. You remind me much of myself, although I am still naive beyond belief. Thank you for EVERYTHING

[@sadjeebis]

Let's

[@sadjeebis]

you wouldn't enjoy it INITIALLY but you should accept the TRUTH

[@dougmoore5252]

Yes indeed

[@marygr8064]

Jordan, you are so struggling with Jesus Christ. I really hope you find our Savior. God bless. Mary

[@jimvermeer9451]

Jesus Christ is the way and the life in him we find all the answers. Open our hearts to his divine mercy and wisdom,healing, and love

[@yCherkashin]

I was actively a-theistic and such. Until 33 I was. Until the age of reason. Now I don't care so much what other people think, as I've not much time left to do my own.

[@liammccann8763]

Fascinating, although I wish JBP would permit PK more time to speak. I am very active in AA and one of the aspects of Alcoholics Anonymous I find most distressing is the line in the Big Book; 'a God of your understanding'. This line, by many, is wilfully misinterpreted to mean 'you can define God for yourself'. AA advocates a spiritual programme, this however is not a spiritual understanding of this one line. For advocates of this outlook, they may cease drinking, they will not however become 'sober' or be permitted to carry the message to others. In hoc signo vinces ✝

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

Alcoholics Anonymous is/was a “seeker friendly” spiritual program. The entire original plan is to get yourself out of your own way, take the log out of your own eye and be in contact & rely on “higher power” daily. 12 Steps don’t promise to make a Christian out of you instantly or ever but the Pride v Humility issue get addressed often.

[@FromAcrossTheDesert]

6:00

[@duncan2993]

My problem at the moment is the discovery of the idea that Christianity took from Plato, not only this, but Paul playing off the Platonic theory of the “Unknown God in his Areopagus sermon. Was God writing the Bible, or was it men living in the times and having to write in opposition to the Roman religion? It’s a tough spiritual question for me.

[@saltburner2]

Indeed, Jesus was essentially a millenarian Hebrew prophet; Paul and the Catholic Church transformed him into a cosmic figure. Christianity would not have survived without it, but it was essentially a betrayal of his message and mission.

[@StrategicWealthLLC]

Well said. To me, the issue is whether there is a creator or not. There is no “proof” either way…just a type of logic. An atheist CAN say that matter/energy are natural and eternal…and that everything is built on that premise. Doing so is challenging though, because of the atheistic characteristic towards science…which is largely grounded in reproducibility and the need for cause and effect. Believing in the eternal nature of matter and energy is a violation of our understanding of science. As a result, believers can say that science is built on cause and effect and thus, matter and energy must have a cause. That cause must be eternal and thus outside the natural world, thus it is ‘supernatural. One can call that cause the creator or god I do think believers get into a bit of trouble when expanding on the above and discussing their ‘personal relationship’ with god or of ‘god’s love’ for us. I am not comfortable with the evidence supporting it. To play devil’s advocate towards my own position, given that there appears to be a trend in things wanting to live, I can understand how one can create an entire moral system on that observation…and infer a creator’s ‘love’ for us as a result. I don’t particularly care about religious tenets (e.g. Christian, Islam, etc)…and I don’t think they are needed. I lean towards deism.

[@Castaca27]

Would love for Kreeft and Jordan discussing Aquinas. Those three names in one room would solve every single one of our existential questions

[@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc]

Aquinas has been studied to death I’d like to see Waldo, Wycliff and Hus thoroughly studied, then taught & discussed. Having a few favorite philosophers and church fathers while ignoring others is nothing more than an echo chamber of indoctrination. Of course, Every. Word. Of. The. Bible is the most excellent source.

[@selfelements8037]

1:18, 4:31, 5:19, 7:27, 9:30, 10:30

[@lettertotheeuropeanparliam4432]

I won't answer the God question, but the morality question. Hayek had a genius moment, he wrote that morality comes from tradition and that tradition is an algorithm of a particular type. What he described in "The Fatal Conceit" is near to the traveler sale problem which is a NP-type algorithm (very complex). He also add that rational and irrational experiences are needed to envision all the possibilities that will provide an answer, so rationalism/skepticism can't come near a solution in comparison to tradition. He ended that paragraph by saying "it is the most rational thing to do to accept this" and he took him a very long time according to him.

[@nathaniel4334]

These ads are not welcome

[@revolutie89omorareasecurit77]

Mıchelangelo yes because of Last judgement

[@josefranco480]

I had some friends from Nepal who I would say embodied more closely the Values I think Jordan Peterson was talking about of personal responsibility, responsibility to their parents, and responsibility to their communities. They are very hard working humble and social. I’m unfortunately the opposite and I would say for part of those reasons I don’t talk to them. The weight of responsibility of helping them felt too great. My feelings sometimes when talking to them was that they were too naive and didn’t understand like I do the culture that defines the western world. In some ways that may be true but I can’t shake the feeling that their small country with thousands of years of passed down traditions is ultimately the model that the west is returning to. For a long time the west has played with the exploitation of natural resources and sometimes some people. (This isn’t to say that other cultures haven’t done the same.) The illusion of abundance is coming undone as it is redistributed and the unholy powers of progress that men thought they had are being revealed to be merely at others expense. I forgot to mention the bad qualities (in my opinion) of my Nepali friends. Over sharing and feelings of jealousy or shaming if you have more. An entitlement to you sharing your time and energy with them likely coming from a more collectivistic culture. So It seems the devil will have to stay because nobody will last a day with God. An optimal strategy for personal freedom will have to be found then to pursue wealth, health and everything else we were told we would have. While not totally fucking everyone LOOL

[@abualofenkasi5634]

Man's got that airpod drip

[@dantheman909]

Peter looks amazing for 85!

[@fatalheart7382]

They do not seek Him because they are cowards, lest God answers and they lose their excuse. :/

[@hishi464]

A Game Has Developer's To Craft A Fun Experience Within The Confines And Rules Of A Simulation Regardless How Free It Is IT is Subordinate To Something Just As Our Creations Have Purpose We Have Divine Purpose We Can't Escape The Atom Nor Whould IT Benefit Us To

[@Randall2023]

Dauphin River First Nation Manitoba Canada 🇨🇦

[@riaandoyle8196]

Break from you're fleshly desires for it wars against you're spirit and tires you're soul Forgive. Let go.

[@Liftercode]

So, did he say yes or not?

[@danielbailey5072]

No. We can not kill him. At least in me. I’ve lived through to much, seen too much, heard too much, felt too much and thought too much for him to be killed. My faith is steadfast.

[@kadeshswanson3991]

I think you missed the point.

[@kathleenwharton2139]

Jesus Keeps me Safe and Free and Gives me Love and Peace 😇. Everything I Need! Just Believe.

[@manymonkeyes]

Good Day, Dr. Peterson. Have you heard of the Hare Krishna movement (ISKCON)? Please comment on your view of such practices. Their philosophy is very much in line with yours and Dr. Kreeft's.

[@Xbalanque84]

Having met God on multiple occasions and seen Him work (sometimes with independent witnesses), I'm gonna have to say "not likely."

[@theoashley-hacker2295]

haha your kidding yourself mate grow up

[@John.Christopher]

Jordan seriously just needs to take a leap of faith and submit to God in prayer ... He'll never find God purely epistemologically...

[@Guillimann]

These ads are too long man

[@forecheckbackcheckpaycheck]

Yes, yes they did.

[@Hbmd3E]

12:04 And its also people/ world generally if not religious. Because what is around you IS God in the sense as God is in the end everything. Particularly your parents as image of God that should reflect that image on you and if your father makes you hurt and to become rebel, you automatically rebel to God in some levels even if you would become christian its hard to get in real relationship with Him and let Him close.

[@Hbmd3E]

there is also snake seed though :) 1 moshe 3.15

[@swerremdjee2769]

Kreeft in dutch is a lobster😁

[@soyelpulpoverde]

I don't agree with peterson on this one. "Discovered" or transcendental values have nothing to do with the creation of the universe by an omnipresent being. Being an atheist is simply not believing that there is a god. And god can have many meanings, but in all its variants it is a being and it is the creator of the universe. I can believe in transcendent values without believing that the universe is the creation of a being. And if you don't mean that kind of god, then you should just talk about values, because being an atheist is simply what I just described.

[@alexioanovici3488]

Have a talk with j caviezel and j malkovich

[@meemaflowers9446]

We are co-creators with the Larger Consciousness System. Consciousness is the only thing that is Fundamental.

[@the2ndcoming135]

1Samuel 8:6((B.S.B.))✝️

[@Misitheus]

God created us...after we were done creating him.....Peace!

[@DerGoRaN96]

yeah but thats not enough

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

Bring on Koons, or David Bentley Hart, or Ed Feser, or Pat Flynn!!!

[@axano7307]

Kreeft means lobster in dutch :)

[@ikik3406]

Fun fact: "kreeft" is dutch for lobster... :)

[@AgeofPC]

For some of us atheists, it's simply a matter of living long enough, and taking a good hard look around.

[@goldenfishes3695]

Summarise of the vid: 1) Freedom is not fully because our thinking is confined within certain sphere and also because our physical reach is limited. Values cannot be created but can only be discovered because the mortality and limitation of man necessitates it. 2) Prayer seems to be an exercise for the mind to normalise it's encouters (i.e. to deal with grief) 3) Experiences causes the mind to consolidate and rationalize. This then converge on a messianic figure which in Dr Jordan's discussion would be jesus. 4) The heart (which i guess is analogous to soul + intelligence instead of the real heart) pursue values that is lofty and better than what the world can provide 5) majority of atheists seems to be atheist because they had bad interactions. Thoughts: In all honesty, whatever was discussed in this showrt 13 min can be reversed to support against a primordial god. 1) Freedom is not fully free which suggests that transcendence is impossible. Values is derivative because it is found therefore providing no evidence that life was built on top of transcendental values. Thus, we cannot say that there is a God (abrahamic type) and we cannot claim that this deity is moral. 2) If prayers are mediations and meditations are prayers then the mystical or supernatural aspect of prayers is naught. We can call it more of therapy than a ritualistic manner to gain favor. 3) Experiences draw us to metaphysical, doesn't that also mean that religions are fantasies? 4) Well, the heart of many people also suggest that love is love but the Abrahamic faith is pushing against LGBTQ+ 5) Majority of religionists have also become religious because atheists treated them badly. What are we really talking about here? Isn't it normal to get offended everyday by different thing and different people of different background? In addition, these atheists may have been responding to the notion of chrisitianity changing people to be better person. It may not mean that the bad experiences are the reason for their cynicism.

[@davekorytak9707]

I never understood how can someone say that something in bible was written by god. Why can't god just tell it to you personally? Why do you need another person who is gonna tell you what god told them?

[@teddysyurifantasy3812]

You would want to hear someones elses interpretation on the bible so that you could discussion about philosophy and past humanity.Or you could just read it and interpret it yourself. What do you need god to baby you or something?

[@peterburns4586]

Nothing in the bible was written by God. The Bible was written by humans that were inspired by eternal ideas and represents hundreds of years of experience synthesized into the closest thing to truth possible. God can and does speak to you personally, through dreams. You need the wisdom of others that came before you because they spent generations creating ways of being that passes the rest of time and strives toward the good. If you think you can offhandedly create new values within 50 years that beats the values that thousands of people painstakingly discovered over thousands of years, let me know how that works out. But you wouldn't read the Bible, God should tell you all that "personally" Don't cast pearls to swine, I suppose.....

[@anolisa1939]

“Why can’t god just tell it to you personally?” Because deity’s don’t exist. A person’s religion is based entirely on the era & location of their birth, the beliefs of their parents, and their genetic susceptibility to dogmatic belief. Religion has never been about trusting in a god/goddess…rather, it’s about trusting the people who purport to speak for said god/goddess. With hundreds of so called “prophets” making countless diverging claims, it would be a miracle to choose the correct babbling lunatic, even if an actual god/goddess was communicating with them via private brain-mails.

[@mamabear3887]

Jordan Peterson is the spirit of john the baptist... He who cries in the wilderness who prepares the way .... Im fully convinced of it. 🤔

[@saltburner2]

Are you expecting another Messiah?

[@skyazrael5487]

I think it's a discovery, not a creation.

[@ejenkins4711]

From time to time we get 2 feel Jordan close to his pleroma. Jung would bee pleased🦁👸🌪️⌚🙏🦍🚪🔑❤️

[@saltburner2]

Indeed, I fear that, like Jung, Jordan is essentially a gnostic. That's the part of him (as an agnostic) I most dislike.

[@MrBALLER4LIFE2324]

The point at the end about atheists more often than not being ppl who were personally hurt by ppl of faith is definitely true in my life. I see and hear it all the time. Even the doubts I sometimes would have about God/Jesus were due to the wrong I felt was done to me. We are prideful beings, and constantly feel and rationalize from our egos.

[@MrBALLER4LIFE2324]

Thank you for this discussion!

[@plrt6794]

Atheists are more often than not people who use their intellect and reason to realize there is no proof that a deity exists. Add to that there are literally hundreds of “gods” how can any one religion point to their own “god” as being the real one?

[@the2ndcoming135]

Interesting right? Trying to figure out if God willed Morocco’s loss or if Jesus willed the Christian teams win🤔

[@Hobohunter23]

if it bleeds...

[@Randall2023]

Lake St. Martin First Nation Manitoba Canada 🇨🇦

[@Polimuni]

Well… What do you mean by “humans” and “God”? Also, What do you mean by “create”? 🤔🤔

[@JThomasP]

Good topic. It seems to be an inter-weaving truth, often depicted through ‘father in son and son in father’ terminology. The whole is in the part, the part is in the whole... something along those lines.

[@revolutie89omorareasecurit77]

E prıma data cand te ascult 3 secunde , ımı plac lemnele cum sunt asezate eu m am chınuıt sıngura o gramada sa mı le fac asa acuma n am cazan....

[@SoloMotivation]

If you are lucky to find this comment, I LOVE YOU

[@jeffthomas5291]

AW!

[@Xbalanque84]

No homo. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[@GhostRider-un9gm]

I don't really care, I fear no judgement, forget about heaven and make friends here, tribes and comunities.

[@agustinrodriguez5058]

Yikes 😬 you should care deeply care cause this life is very very temporary.

[@m3technologies236]

You can't kill what doesn't exist.

[@TarkMcCoy]

Religion was the first internet.

[@MsHburnett]

Kreft says 1 sentence then an advert

[@patrickturner91]

I give it like 1 year before JP converts to Catholicism.

[@gustavoeliasmorales77]

I think the idea of rejecting God because people are mean to you or, have betrayed you is a cop out. Jesus went through the worst possible betrayal he didn't reject God.

[@Jaaammmbbbooo]

He was god.

[@gustavoeliasmorales77]

@@Jaaammmbbbooo the son didn't reject the father

[@wingsumng2420]

According to the Gospel of Luke, Y'shua is the L generation, Heli is the N generation, What is N&L?

[@Lerian_V]

Peterson the Plato, Kreeft the Aristotle.

[@jstube36]

Even in the Bible we get the idea that gods were human-made. The problem for those criticizing the one making gods from wood or stone, is the very same critique can be pointed in their direction in regard to Yahweh. When we examine the Hebrew God, we find very human traits and characteristics and behaviors. So much to bring the idea that even Yahweh himself was a Human creation. So many Humans still turn to Lord Yahweh or Lord Vishnu, or Lord Whatever. Often without asking why. But those who begin to ask these questions. Are the ones who begin to understand that all these gods, and goddesses are simply products of somebody's imagination. So many that are breaking themselves away from these possibly made-up deities, are realizing what true self-liberation is all about.

[@theflyingdutchman2542]

I'm half way through, and Peter Kreeft hasn't said more than 2 sentences...

[@shocbomb23]

So absurd saying a large % of atheist got hurt by religious figure as a child so that's why they formed that belief system.🤣 You're a smart man Jordan who I would think knows a lot about biology,laws of physics,the universe,etc. I would tend to believe that deep down inside you know damn well the odds of a Judeo-Christian all knowing and powerful diety creating the universe is about as good as me hitting the power ball lotto tonight. Religion was created / invented to help ease mankinds deep seated fear of death. BTW the reason I'm agnostic is because I learned about science, physics,the universe,etc and after doing so it was pretty much impossible for me too base my belief system on a bronze age story book!

[@VerlTheSkeptic]

I find it interesting how I do not at all relate to their experience with other atheists. Of course religion and gods are attractive stories, that's why religion persists despite the complete absurdities. And I was never hurt by a believer when I was young. I took an honest look at the evidence for and against and found the evidence for the existence of a god lacking. Whether or not religion is attractive is immaterial to its truth just as much as whether a believer hurt me is irrelevant. If you cannot convince me with good reasons to believe, I will not believe.

[@mashable8759]

Yes Humans made Gods and religions are useful like Spinoza said.

[@06rtm]

God is the ultimate implication of our hierarchical reality. The nature of reality infers God.

[@Xbalanque84]

God is the _hotheos,_ the primary cause and source upon which all of existence necessarily draws from. Whether one believes that source is intelligent or not, everything _has_ to trace their existence back to that first cause. And unless one proposes a cosmology wherein the universe is locked in a continuous cycle of beginning and ending, one can't logically assert that primary causality doesn't exist.

[@anolisa1939]

Nothing in nature “infers” a magical invisible ape deity who obsessed over the diet, clothing, and mating habits of lower apes.

[@saltburner2]

Indeed: and if Lobsters had a God, he would be Lobster-like!

[@06rtm]

@@anolisa1939 If we exist in a hierarchy, which we do, then something is at the top. Every action, every structure, every thing we do relies on hierarchy. You don’t think clothing, diet and mating habits contribute to quality of life? Those are the most basically essential aspects of human life. Why wouldn’t they contribute to the ultimate good?

[@anolisa1939]

@@06rtm Living organisms are variable, yes, but that is not evidence for some god like topper upon this tree of life. The attributes most valuable in one situation, may prove fatal in another (Ex. An apex predator could become so adept & specialized at obtaining a certain prey type, that it would fail to survive in an environment absent those prey animals.) A mathematician could be the top authority in his field, yet rank at the very bottom in a hierarchical system prioritizing marksmanship, or sewing skills. And no, I don’t believe mixing fabrics, eating bacon, or sexing up alternative holes will make anyone’s life worse off. However, I do think it can be very harmful to ignore reality, and instead pursue comfort about in myth & fiction.

[@EricEstesEleutherian]

Oh oh! I can answer this one. Yes. Straight forward.

[@Homo_sAPEien]

Yes.

[@brownmut5518]

Absolutely. Since the beginning of time man has pondered the reason for his existence and explain the unexplainable by building structures to govern their societies. God is nothing more than an ideal to live a more civilized life in harmony with your neighbors. Man created commandments and laws. They wrote that you're being watched 24/7 and so you better not break any of the commandments , at the end of your life you'll go to heaven above or hell down below. What a crock everybody thought and still do weather they want to believe me or not. Most people won't kill, rob, steal, cheat or lie if they think they're being watched by the law. If they think they're alone with only them and God watching, they're libal to do any or all of the above mentioned things. God is nothing more then the LAW. That's it. Believe in God, it's good for society 🙏

[@caseywhite3150]

You'll find out buddy. I hope you're young ..... So you have time to find the truth.

[@Silentguy_78]

@@caseywhite3150 even primitive humans with their undeveloped brians made up the answer to the reason of their existence by thinking of a simple and convincing answer which was god That's how simple the answer was