Did Jesus die for the sins of every person or only for the elect?

[@newyorknight]

All I know is this, God's amazing grace saved a wretch like me.

[@numbers22_28]

I have heard a lot of worthless jiberish on the 'net', but this has to be the least of all worthlessness. What nonsense! None of them made any attempt to answer the question except rhe last guy and his answer was pitiful. Did God intend for every person in history to be saved? Yes, 1 Tim 2:4. Will he save anyone without their obedience to the gospel? No, 1 Peter 4:17 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? No one in the entire Bible ever pleased God nor is saved, without obedience.

[@justanotherbaptistjew5659]

@@numbers22_28 If God intended for everyone in history to be saved, He failed miserably. Read the entire chapter of the verse you just quoted. Paul essentially says pray for every type of person, then he says it’s because God wants all to be saved. From the context it’s clear that He saves every type of person, not every person.

[@aletheia8054]

@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 hahah yeah the biggest oops in history! 1 Tim is about the church. He desires all his church to be saved. The elect know the truth instinctively.

[@melissaray6840]

Amen

[@abullard8409]

I am the worst of them and I thank and praise the Holy Most High Creator of the Universe through Jesus Christ gave me salvation. I'll forever submit and follow. 🙏🏾

[@BatMite19]

In heaven, if anyone is asked, "How did you get here?" the answer will only be, "Because of what Jesus did for me," and Jesus gets all the glory. But if the answer were, "Well, it's partly because of what Jesus did, and partly because I chose it," then Jesus doesn't get all the glory. The whole reason why the Father allowed sin into the world and the fall of the human race, was so that Jesus would get all the glory for saving us. If the glory were to be split between Jesus and the believer, then why have Christ die for sin at all? Why not let people work off their own sin debt (like in Purgatory, Roman Catholicism)? No, Jesus gets all the glory because Jesus did all of the work.

[@TheRomanianWolf]

Did Jesus even existed???

[@jackfrost2978]

Jesus frequently gave the glory to God the Father. He knows the Father will honor him. But his actions are completely for the Father. People choosing to accept Jesus sacrifice. Is not honoring the individual or splitting glory. It's about free will and choice. If there is no choice to make. Then there is no reason to go through all of this. We would simply exist in heaven with the angels. Earth is a crucible. Meant to put us in tough situations to test our hearts. God knows the outcome already but goes through with everything. So that when it's all done. Everyone will see his will and nature. From start to finish. There is more glory to be had for making a sacrifice knowing not all would accept it. Then there is in a sacrifice just because.

[@TheRomanianWolf]

@@jackfrost2978 nobody knows the outcome, not even God.

[@jackfrost2978]

@@TheRomanianWolf What outcome are you talking about. Are you saying no one knows how everything will end? When you say not even God. Are you talking God the father? The whole Trinity? Jesus himself? It would be an overly bold statement to say God the father does not know the future.

[@jonathanfischer5292]

That does not make any sense at all. If a Coast Guard diver drops from a helicopter and saves you from drowning, you have to follow his instructions and hang onto him if you want to be rescued, otherwise you'll drown! But of course your rescuer obviously still gets all the credit for saving you!

[@OC3707]

I pity those that think they were smart enough, wise enough, reasonable enough, humble enough, godly enough, etc, etc, to see the truth and accept Christ as savior. You were none of those. You were dead and God brought you to life.

[@robmarshall956]

Amen 🙏

[@JerichoLeon]

What if reason, wisdom, humility (especially through trials), godliness, etc all came from God as a way for us to call on Him for salvation? As Peter taught at Pentecost, under the New Covenant of grace instituted by our Lord Jesus: "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'" - Acts 2:21 ESV

[@jasonpellegrini7148]

Dead in sin does not mean incapable of repentance NOWHERE does the bible teach that

[@jacobvgeorge]

@@jasonpellegrini7148 God grants repentance to Israel Acts 5:31 “He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” God grants repentance to the Gentiles Acts 11:18 “When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”” Pray that God may grant repentance to all kept captive by the devil 2 Timothy 2:24-26 “The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.”

[@jasonpellegrini7148]

@@jacobvgeorge Hi Jacob I am aware off all these scriptures and have had this debate with calvanists many times. I myself was a calvanist for 20 years, am thankful that I can now read the bible without my calvanist glasses on if that makes sense. You have too balance them with other scriptures as am sure you are aware. Peter clearly States that Gods Will is NONE should perish but ALL come to repentance..... God wants all people to repent this teaching is plain so the emphasis here is on MAN to repent not god to force it else the scripture does not make sense. It also says God wills all to repent and " God commands all men everywhere to repent..." so if God commands it and wills it who is stopping it? Man. Paul wrote to Timothy saying " God would have All men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth..." Again God wants all men to be saved NOT some who wants ALL men to repent . He says in the old testament that he has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but that the wicked may turn from thier ways and repent. There is scripture after scripture that puts the ball in mans court to choose or reject Gods grace, ways and salvation. Also repentance comes Before regeneration in scripture. It clearly states repentance and be converted that your sins may be blotted out. So you have to take those scriptures with the ones i have quoted. 5 point calvanism is a limiting and damaging teaching to the church and the limits Christian's in reading Gods word and thier life. Take what the scripture says at face value not with calvinistic suppositions.

[@jesussaves3741]

“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1:29

[@slyone1726]

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." - 1 John 2:2

[@readJames48]

World is not EVERY ONE in the history of mankind....unless you are a universalist

[@slyone1726]

@@readJames48 If I'm a universalist, it has a different meaning?

[@jesussaves3741]

​@@readJames48 Says who? That's what calvinists say because they try and protect their doctrine from scripture. Scripture uses other terminology as well, such as in Hebrews 2:9, where it says plainly that Christ "tasted death for every man." In the greek it literally says "all" or "everyone." I would go a step further and say, how could it not apply to everyone? Galatians says "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons" Jesus was born of woman to redeem those under law which is everyone. Once his sacrifice was made everyone under law has right to redemption through his blood. Since he died as a man under law his death applies to all men under law. This is why Romans 5:18 says "Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life." Just as what Adam did affected the entire human race what Christ did affected all mankind as well. That is why he is the second Adam. What separates the two groups is faith. Romans 18 says plainly "condemnation came to all men" however not all men will be condemned because scripture says " Whoever believes on Him is not condemned." It also says the "free gift came to all men" yet not all will be saved because " whoever believeth not shall be damned." Ephesians says we are saved "by grace through faith." God's grace has "appeared to all men" but we must receive it by faith. "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God" Romans 5:2

[@readJames48]

@@jesussaves3741 Thats not Calvin, it's scripture....no one CAN....come to me John 6:44...Romans 9:16-22....Acts 13:48.."appointed".... The atonement is efficient for all humankind...IT IS EFFECTUAL for His sheep...sheep DONT CHOOSE their Shepherd!...you believe in a MAN centered gospel....I serve a God centered one ....God does it...TOO BAD if YOU don't like it!!!

[@raifcluster]

"Long my imprisoned spirit lay, fast bound in sin and nature's night. Thine eye diffused a quickening ray, I awoke, the dungeoun flamed with light. My chains fell off, my heart was free, I rose, went forth and followed Thee. Amazing love! How can it be that Thou, my God should die for me." Story of my life.

[@cowboymouth6429]

Exactly....When JESUS on the cross said it is FINISHED, before giving HIS LIFE, HE gave satan a defeating blow and made salvation an ACCOMPLISHED fact not a POSSIBILITY. Thank you ALMIGHTY GOD FOR YOUR LOVE TOWARDS THOSE WHO IN NO WAY DESERVE IT.

[@carmensiekierke3579]

In the Garden of Gethsemane, did Jesus pray for the whole world? NO. He prayed for those the Father had given to Him.

[@auh2o148]

Yes, and Israel is the world to YHWH, the other nations are counted as nothing.

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@@auh2o148 You are confused. What is the center of all Scripture? Christ......not Israel.

[@auh2o148]

@@carmensiekierke3579 chill out and reread what I wrote. Those that The Father gave Messiah are Israel. Messiah was born from Israel. And read Isa 27:6, 40:17, and 45:17.

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@@auh2o148 Is the center of Scripture ( Old and New Testament) the Lord Jesus Christ?

[@auh2o148]

@@carmensiekierke3579 Messiah is the center, the beginning and the end.

[@thewaldens90]

Salvations is not an intellectual discipline but rather a gift from God for His glory.

[@dithernessy4118]

1 John 2:2, KJV: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

[@rpavich]

Lol....and?

[@dithernessy4118]

fools read this verse and somehow conjure up tea leaf readings that Jesus only died for those that were predestined to be saved. That is, unconditionally elected, Calvinism mind cancer@@rpavich

[@salvadaXgracia]

Yep. Sproul's word < God's word

[@blueray3361]

Redemption/Forgiveness is not Justification. God took all sin for everyone, but only those who believe that He did take their sin receive the perfection of Christ credited to them.

[@theirishbreadmaker308]

John 3:16 says it all...God gave his son for the whole work and whoever believes in him is saved

[@aletheia8054]

Right, whoever believes is not everybody.

[@dennisokada9287]

Gk., “everyone.”

[@jasonpellegrini7148]

@@aletheia8054 Yes but the opportunity is for everyone that is clear jesus says preach gospel to everyone so christ died for everyone else it wouldn't be for everyone. It's that simple.

[@aletheia8054]

@@jasonpellegrini7148 No there is not opportunity for everyone. The bible never uses the word opportunity even once. It says very bluntly that God made vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. God hated Esau and destroyed all his descendants. The curse of the 1st born and on and on in the bible. The bible says some people are born brute beast made for destruction. THAT is clear. It is literal. It says it so very plainly. But the non elecet wont hear it or understand it or accept it.

[@larrythepcguy5474]

@@aletheia8054 There are two classes the elect bride in first century approx up to 70AD and people of the nations to date who are invited to the wedding ! And the Spirit and the bride says come take freely of the waters of life! Who is the Bride and who are those of the nations ? Which are you ? Revelation 22, 22

[@alihoussney7870]

Thank you, R.C. Sproul. You HIT THE NAIL on the topic and thank you for providing plenty of biblical support.

[@crocuscreekwoodworks]

I am a believer, a follower, a worshiper, of Jesus Christ my redeemer, the finisher of my faith and I am a sinner saved by Grace. When I read the Bible and God tells me that "WHOSOEVER" believes he will be saved then I take that for what it says...WHOSOEVER believes. Call that what you will. I trust in Jesus for my salvation. I think the world tries to complicate the Gospel to a point where there is so much confusion the average person who is lost stays lost. Cry out to Christ and He will save you. Today is the day of salvation. Ephesians 2:8 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

[@kimwestwood8840]

Amen

[@Lubabski]

You think christ will save you when it's after the rapture? If you cry out to him. Please be smart. It says not everyone who cries lord lord will be saved

[@josephbarr4468]

Indeed and Thank You RC: "HE made it CERTAIN".

[@davidrose3737]

I believe in the 5 points Calvanism. You told it right on Pastor Sprowl Other guys beat around the bush and say nothing. In scope He died for the whole world, cause the bible says so, in reality not all will be saved.

[@2timothy23]

I know people will see this KZbin title and get upset with the answers. Yet the explanations are theologically correct. And there are many verses that show that salvation is all of God and that sinful mankind (Romans 3:9-20, Jeremiah 17:9, Ephesians 2:1-3, 1 John 3:4, etc.) would never choose the God they hate (John 15:18-23, Romans 8:7). You see every person of the Godhead in salvation in Ephesians 1:4-14, which begins with God's choice before the foundation of the world in verse 4. You see that no one can come to Christ unless the Father draws them in John 6:37-44. You see the objections to sovereign election asked and answered in Romans 9:14-24. You see that it is God that actually grants/gives repentance in Acts 5:31, 11:18, and 2 Timothy 2:25. You even see that man's believing in John 1:12 is due to being born again in John 1:13, which is not from the will of the flesh or man, but of God. And the word elect as it pertains to believers is in scripture multiple times, and when it pertains to us it means God's chosen (as a title). And I know the comeback verses to this doctrine will be John 3:16, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:4-6, 2 Peter 3:9 (particularly the end of this verse without the whole context of the rest of the verse), and many other verses that tell sinful mankind to repent, believe, or choose. The problem arises when these other verses have a faulty definition of the words "world," "all," or "any." And there's this thought that an imperative to believe equates to the ability to do so in man's own will. No, an imperative is what is required of sinful man because God is our holy Creator. Ecclesiastes 12:13 says the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep His commandments. Yet sinful man doesn't fear God (Romans 3:18) and doesn't keep God's commandments (since sin is described as the transgression of the law in 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10 demonstrates that the breaking of one law is akin to breaking them all). So why does God say man is duty bound to do two things that the Bible says they can't? Because if they could, Jesus Christ wouldn't need to die on the cross at all. The panel is correct when they says Christ work on the cross is finished; He did what He accomplished, not what is just possible. And it is through the means of the gospel message that mankind is saved (Romans 10:14-17). But our modern evangelicalism gets the cart before the horse, we tell sinners that God loves them in a salvific way or that He died for them when you never see that language used when giving the gospel to sinners in the book of Acts or even the Gospels. Jesus told people to believe in Him and in the book of Acts the message is repent and believe in the One who died and was resurrected. Why is this? Because to tell a sinner Christ died for you specifically when we don't know that would actually be a lie. We won't know this is true until they demonstrate it through their profession (Romans 10:9-13) and consistency of life continuing in the faith (John 10:27-29, Colossians 1:22-23).

[@super60sand70s]

But man has to accept Jesus, right? Are you all saying that man does not need to accept this free gift?

[@2timothy23]

@@super60sand70s Sinful man is commanded to repent and believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose again. Notice that the gospel is a command to be obeyed (read the language of this in Romans 10:16 and 2 Thessalonians 1:8). In fact, it is an actual call from God. In our modern way of thinking we think of a call as merely an invitation (which it is), but we don't understand the depths of an invitation when it is from a King to its subjects. God is our Creator and King; He gives a general call to sinners to repent and believe. And it is a grand wonderful call for sinners to be saved from the wrath to come, but notice Jesus said, "For many are called, but few are chosen" in Matthew 22:14. Sinners are responsible to repent and believe because they sin, which is lawlessness against God's commands in thought, word, and deed. We are actually criminals in the eyes of God and we rightly deserve eternal punishment (Revelation 20:11-15), but God is gracious enough to call the criminals to repent and believe. Yet the sinner doesn't have the ability to come because of his sin; our nature of sin makes us hostile to God (Romans 8:7) and we actually hate God (John 15:18-23) though we know God exists (Romans 1:18-23). So if we're unable to come due to our nature of sin and God knows this but still calls us to repent and believe, why would God judge us for something that we can't do? Again, I explained that in my first comment and God anticipates this objection and asks and answers it in Romans 9:19-24. And salvation is a gift. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us this, but notice that this verse says it's not of works, unless man would boast. That is contrasted by being saved by grace through faith. The whole being saved by grace through faith is the gift of God. The word gift in these verses is a Greek word that literally means offering or sacrifice. This is something that is done to appease someone; something that is expected. Christ the Son is that sacrifice to satisfy the wrath of God the Father against sinners. God's wrath must be satisfied for sin either by punishing the sinner or saving that sinner through the sacrifice of the Son. It is given freely by God because He changes our heart to want to repent and believe; this is regeneration. Jesus talks about this in John 3:8, this is being born of the Spirit but no man knows when it comes, and it is all of God and not man's will according to John 1:13. In our modern gospel thinking, we think the gospel invitation is the gift to be accepted or rejected. No, that is the gospel call that will be rejected unless we're Jesus' sheep and we hear His voice according to John 10:26-29. And notice in John 10:26 that they don't believe because they are not of Jesus' sheep, but in John 10:27-28 Jesus' sheep hear his voice and follow Him and Christ gives them eternal life. It isn't the call that is the gift, it is the salvation given by grace through faith from God that is the gift. That is the reason many are called and few are chosen.

[@gojohnnygo3209]

@@2timothy23 - You commented that - So why does God say man is duty bound to do two things and that the Bible says they can't? Where in the Bible say they can't? And who are the "they"?

[@2timothy23]

@@gojohnnygo3209 The answer to all of your questions is actually in my original comment. I wrote near the end of third paragraph this: "Ecclesiastes 12:13 says the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep His commandments. Yet sinful man doesn't fear God (Romans 3:18) and doesn't keep God's commandments (since sin is described as the transgression of the law in 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10 demonstrates that the breaking of one law is akin to breaking them all). So why does God say man is duty bound to do two things that the Bible says they can't? Because if they could, Jesus Christ wouldn't need to die on the cross at all." To answer your questions, the two things are to fear God and keep His commandments. Romans 3:18,1 John 3:4, and James 2:10 says they can't. The "they" is mankind; the sinful world. If they could do both things to satisfy God's judgment and wrath then Revelation 20:12-13 wouldn't say that they sinners are being judged on their works according to the books (or records) in contrast to those written in the Lamb's book of life (Revelation 20:15). There would be no need for the Lamb's book because mankind could do it based on their own works or righteousness, but Romans 3:10-12 clearly says sinful man is not righteous, they lack understanding, they don't seek God, and they don't do anything that is good. And notice after the scriptures says it is their duty to keep God's commandments and fear God in Ecclesiastes 12:13, Ecclesiastes 12:14 says, "For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." It is only good if you have God-given faith in Christ, then you're His workmanship unto good works (Ephesians 2:10), but it is always evil if it is by your own works (this is the reason Romans 3:20 says, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."). Man can never satisfy the absolute, righteous requirement of God; that is the reason we need salvation in Jesus Christ.

[@gojohnnygo3209]

@@2timothy23 - The point is that gentiles were never part in the covenant. So how would they know about the two thing that they should do?

[@thomasnorton2679]

J.I Packer before he went ecumenical, "One system (Reformed) speaks of a God who saves, the other (Arminian) speaks of a God who enables man to save himself"

[@larrythepcguy5474]

With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, *Save yourselves from this corrupt generation* Acts 2:40 = 16Pay close attention to your life and your teaching; persevere in these things, for in doing this you will *save both yourself and your hearers* == 4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, who shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who tasted God’s good word and the powers of the coming age, 6 and who have fallen away. This is because,fn to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding him up to contempt. 7 For the ground that drinks the rain that often falls on it and that produces vegetation useful to those for whom it is cultivated receives a blessing from God. 8 ,But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and about to be cursed, and at *the end will be burned* Hebrews 6

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@@larrythepcguy5474 Explain what you think the verses you posted in your comment mean.

[@Kenneth-nVA]

@@larrythepcguy5474 I’ll focus on your first example… here’s the preceding verses for context ( Act 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord our God will call to himself.”). Q: who are the “ as many” that the Lord will call to himself? I understand your point because I once held that understanding… I actually ( 22 years ago) went on a quest to disprove the reformed understanding of salvation. After exegeting all the pro and con passages I clearly saw that salvation is monergistic. My initial synergistic understanding was incorrect. I would challenge you to take all the passages and establish the context and study. Blessings and I’m praying for you

[@larrythepcguy5474]

@@Kenneth-nVA Most churchs confuse the choosing of the Bride (known as firstfruits mostly the remnant chosen Jews revelation 7, 14, 21 up to 70AD, after the covenant with carnal Isreal ended Matthew 23, and 24, example Temple destroyed, sacrificial system ended and then the open blessings to the nations from Christ Jesus and his bride aka the New Jerusalm to bless nations. ...since then. Partial preterism eschatology ! Are any individual nations predestined ? NO ! IS the Bride chosen by Christ, of course!

[@larrythepcguy5474]

@@carmensiekierke3579 From past conversations, you dont answer questions or explain anything, so draw your own conclusions and/or convictions?

[@ericwhitepinepackard6920]

Glory to God, God is Good! It is finished in him! Every bit of our salvation is done by our Lord! There is nothing we could ever do to earn it! He gives it freely! Amen!

[@gordiescott2470]

He died for the Sins of the World!!!That means everyone that has ever lived on this planet,living on this planet,and those who haven't been born yet that will live on this planet!!He died for my sins 2000 yrs ago, before my wretched self hit this planet!!He is the ALPHA and OMEGA!!!Glory be to God and God only!!!!

[@bashpiece]

But not all find forgiveness. Few are those who find it… and if Christ died for the whole world that means He failed because many are on the broad way of destruction. He paid for the sins of His people

[@gordiescott2470]

@@bashpiece Should have been more clear!!He died for those who confess their sins and REPEANT of those sins!!One must recognize Christ as King and Lord and the only way to Salvation!! Everyone living today has that opportunity to find Christ!! Of course there will be millions who don't, doesn't mean He didn't give them a chance!!Narrow is the gate to Salvation and the gates of eternal damnation are very wide!!God Bless!!

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@@gordiescott2470 Scripture tells us that the animal sacrifices in the Mosaic Covenant could not remove sin......those sacrifices pointed forward to the High Priest who really could make atonement. In your comment, you are claiming Jesus could only give an "opportunity" for atonement. Scripture tells us in the Old Testament that God elected fallen sinners, not based on anything in themselves, and He PASSED OVER the rest and left them in their fallen state. This " everyone has an opportunity" comes from revivalism........walk the aisle, pray the sinners prayer, make a decision.

[@gordiescott2470]

@@carmensiekierke3579 Sister,we do not live under the Old covenant, JESUS CHRIST is the NEW COVENANT!!He did not come to break or twist the law but to fulfill it!!!Those that believe he is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of THE MOST HIGH,and believe he is THE FULFILLMENT of those HOLY SCRIPTURES will see SALVATION!!One must REPEANT from sin and confess with their Mouth that JESUS CHRIST is LORD and SAVIOR!! There is no other way to the ETERNAL FATHER of CREATION but through his ONLY BEGOTTEN!!!!

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@@gordiescott2470 I am Orthodox Presbyterian, holding to the Westminster Confession of Faith. How were the believers in the Old Testament saved?

[@ambassadorofconciliation]

Wow, that was easy…. Rom 5:18-21: "Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through ONE JUST AWARD FOR ALL MANKIND for life's justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just. Yet law came in by the way, that the offense should be increasing. Yet where sin increases, grace superexceeds, that, even as Sin reigns in death, thus Grace also should be reigning through righteousness, for life eonian, through Jesus Christ, our Lord."

[@MarkJohnson-yn2ol]

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians:2:14

[@lukewagner8871]

1 Timothy 4:9-11 KJVS [9] This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. [10] For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. [11] These things command and teach.

[@e.t.h.559]

Paul is obviously not teaching unlimited atonement, since the rest of Scripture clearly teaches that God will only save His elect. Most will reject him and spend eternity in hell (Matt. 25:41; 46; Rev. 20:11-15). Yet, the Greek word translated “especially” must mean that all people enjoy God’s salvation in some way like those who believe enjoy his salvation. The simple explanation is that God is the Savior of all people, only in a temporal sense, while of believers in an eternal sense. Paul’s point is that while God graciously delivers believers from sin’s condemnation and penalty because he was their substitute (2 Cor. 5:21), all people experience some earthly benefits from the goodness of God. Those benefits are called common grace-a term that describes God’s goodness shown to all mankind universally (Ps. 145:9) in restraining sin (Rom. 2:15) and judgment (Rom. 2:3-6), maintaining order in society through government (Rom. 13:1-5), enabling man to appreciate beauty and goodness (Ps. 50:2), and showering him with temporal blessings (Matt. 5:45; Acts 14:15-17; 17:25);

[@alwaysadawg6488]

@@e.t.h.559 I know what you mean. Just look at John 3:16, where John said, "For God so loved his elect that he gave his only"...Wait a minute. That's not what is says. It says, "For God so loved the WORLD". Your interpretation of 1 Timothy 4:9-11 is a HUGE stretch. It is logical that the most accurate translation of God's word in the NT is a literal translation of the original Greek text. How about a literal translation of Philippians 2:9-11: 9Wherefore, also, God highly exalts Him, and graces Him with the name that is above every name, 10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean, 11 and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father. To be clear, every knee, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean (EVERYWHERE) will bow. Every tongue, (EVERYWHERE) will acclaim (joyfully and enthusiastically and publicly profess) that Jesus Christ is Lord. Sounds like everyone is in the elect. After all, why would people condemned to hell be acclaiming God?

[@JewandGreek]

If Jesus didn't die for everybody then He only died for the elect whom God predestined for salvation, so in effect God ordained the fall which condemned all of humanity and then only provided salvation for His favorites. How is that any more just than double indemnity?

[@TheRomanianWolf]

Don't argue with those heretics... Jesus died for EVERYONE. That's why you have FREE WILL: you can accept him or not, you can follow him or not, it's that simple.

[@Vigilant1948]

@@TheRomanianWolf Yes - It's true! You have FREE WILL...the will to choose what your heart most desires. Now, think about what the Bible tells us of the the heart of the unredeemed. Start listing the passages. Make sure you highlight all those passages that speak of the inclination of the natural man to seek after holiness and to worship the glory and beauty of Christ......

[@prototypeg4498]

@@Vigilant1948 that's because Jesus said he will make your heart of stone into a heart of flesh. You have free will to choose God or reject him. This really supports the theology of Hell because everyone in hell is there because they want to and because they rejected Jesus. As opposed to God predestined billions of people to go to hell

[@prototypeg4498]

Oops correction Jesus didn't say it. Yahweh said the verse from Ezekiel

[@gabrielhalston6726]

Amen to every word spoken here in this video!!

[@robmarshall956]

Just discussing this with a universalist earlier. The Bible presents what might be called a straightforward separation between humanity, described in a series of contrasts: those in Christ and those in Adam, sheep and goats, and so on. The relationship between these two groups is described in terms of enmity and hostility. For the “sheep” and those “in Christ,” one can speak of a fatherly disciplinary and parental love. For those who ultimately are not the sheep, and so remain outside of Christ, the Bible speaks of the irrevocable and final punishment of judgment after death. Christ speaks of this reality as losing one’s soul (Mark 8:36), being denied by him (Mark 8:38), and doors shutting (Matt. 25:10-11). The New Testament stresses an urgency of decision in this life while it is still possible-or else face exclusion in the age to come. The parables of the wheat and tares, good fish and bad fish, wise and foolish virgins, and sheep and goats are spoken in stark terms. There is no hint that destinations can be reversed “at the end of the age” (Matt. 13:40). Read 2 Thess. 1:6-10.

[@MadebyKourmoulis]

Gods will is that none should perish. He wouldn't be honest with us if he didn't provide a way to escape death.

[@Thewalkhome7]

I can careless about this “Calvinism” vs “Arminianism” at this point of my life. The scripture is clear for all those who have ears to here and eyes to see (via regeneration // being born again) that Christ came to provide salvation and life for those whom the Father specifically has set apart for him in eternity past (before the foundations of the world) and it would be those whom the Bible calls elect that Christ came for. So no it is not everyone universally but everyone whom the father has eternally elected. So much scripture is explicitly clear. Especially in the gospel of John. As well as all the Gospels. & the unpacking of it even more by the apostles it’s legitimately undeniable. But again for all those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. Grace and peace brothers.

[@predicadordecristo552]

Eternity Past???? Really?? Do you know what Eternity means or not??

[@TheDrummaBen]

Not sure what your objection… that’s always been a very common term in theological discussion.

[@Eric_Lichtenberg]

All glory and praise be to our God and Savior, Jesus Christ!

[@RIPDerek20]

@@predicadordecristo552 Infinity is a concept. There are larger and smaller infinities. For example, the universe is infinite and God is infinite. Which is bigger? Infinity just really means immeasurable and before God all is measurable and known so saying God decided in the infinity before this infinity is logical.

[@predicadordecristo552]

@@RIPDerek20 Infinity bigger and smaller?? The universe is Infinite to us but is not Infinite. And I am not talking about Infinity. ETERNITY. Past Eternity ??? If it did past it was not Eternity.

[@JimJamJuicy]

Jesus saved me and I pray he saves everybody

[@4walls559]

SORRY, JESUS DID NOT SAVE YOU. YOU ARE SAVED WHEN YOU REPENT OF YOUR SIN. JESUS IS IN NO WAY ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR SINS. JESUS CLEARLY TAUGHT YOU ARE FORGIVEN ONLY WHEN YOU FORGIVE OTHERS. IF YOU REFUSE TO FORGIVE THOSE WHO HAVE WRONGED YOU, JESUS DEATH BURIAL AND RESURRECTION WILL BE OF NO HELP TO YOU.

[@JimJamJuicy]

@@4walls559 what are you even talking about? Why do you think I didn’t repent of my sin? And why all the capital letters?

[@JimJamJuicy]

@@4walls559 and repentance is not a prerequisite for salvation actually then salvation would be a work of ourselves. Repentance is a necessary fruit that occurs following saving grace justified by faith (unmerited favour), it is not of ourselves, which repentance is, on the contrary salvation is work of God. What you are referring to - repentance, forgiving others are necessary aspects of sanctification.

[@joshualowe286]

It is finished. That was the fulfillment of the Law, and the prophets prophecies, of Jesus, being fulfilled. We cannot call, accepting Jesus, and believing in His Gospel, in our hearts, as an added work to what He did. Once we've accepted Him, we have a change of mind, because we now know, that we need Him, because He is the only way to eternal life, because we are hell bound without Him.

[@TheDrummaBen]

So can you lose your salvation?

[@joshualowe286]

@@TheDrummaBen Not once you are truly saved. Jesus will lose no one, or anything, that has been placed in His hands. We will ALL battle our flesh, until the day, that we are no longer bound to it, and we are with Him. But, we are not to use that, for an occasion to the flesh, so it does not give us a license, to live according to the flesh. We are to recognize, that we have enough battles as it is, let alone, choosing to, and constantly, living according to OUR will, and OUR desires. And for the people who have completely turned away, and renounced Jesus, after they have said, that they once believed, and were once saved, makes me question, if they ever really fully accepted Him, in the first place. Will we mess up? Yes! Will we have struggles? Yes! Will we have moments where we give in? Most definitely! But, will there be no change, and live exactly like we did before we came to the Truth? No! Not if you have been sealed with the Holy Spirit, and we keep trying our best, to walk according to the Spirit. We are ALL deserving of Hell, but we have been given the Gift of Grace, not because we deserve it, but because He loves us, and He loved us first.

[@TheDrummaBen]

@@joshualowe286 I'm just confused...If it is up to our free will to choose Him and then we are regenerated, but then we cannot unchoose Him up to that point, seems like we have less of "free will" than we did before salvation. Seems like free will theology tries to have its cake and eat it too regarding eternal security. But If God was fully sovereign in saving you then He is also fully sovereign in eeping you. But If your coming to Christ was a choice where you could go either way, surely your leaving Christ is also a choice available to you to go either way.

[@joshualowe286]

@@TheDrummaBen I don't see a contradiction, or a statement of confusion, in what I said. If your really just wanting to know, it's definitely a good thing, to ask questions, or you'll never get an answer. When I wrote, "that what the Father has placed in His hands, that He will not lose it," is Scriptural, from Jesus speaking Himself. Let me ask it to you this way;----"if you have free will to choose Him, and He changes you, completely in your heart, mind, soul and spirit, and you then know, that He is definitely Who the Scriptures say He is, because there is no denying what has happened to you, why would one want to unfollow, or choose to drop Him, and disbelieve in Him, after the change? This isn't just a belief for me, where the first thing I read and studied, I said to myself, huh, I'll just believe in that. I've read and searched many things, but when I called out to Jesus, He was faithful, and He showed up inside of me, and I have NO doubts of His Gospel, and, that a sinner like me, needs a Savior, who made a way for me. That's why I said, that I question the ones who say they were saved, but now they don't believe in Him, or His message. If they really, out of strictly wanting to get to know Him, kept seeking, and asked Him in, as a child would, He would of changed them, and then, they would know the Truth, that He is the Truth, then, they would never have denounced Him. It's this simple, if He shows you He is real, you then know, that He came to save us, and if you really know that in your heart, why would anyone say, nah, I'll just skip eternal life, and die the second death? Once Jesus sets you free, indeed you are free. It's just that almost all the big name pastors, having been flat out lying, and twisting the Word of God for profit, and it's quite a shame. That's why you depend on Jesus to show you the Truth, through the Holy Spirit, because once you really accept Him, you won't want to leave Him, and even when you struggle and mess up, He will NEVER leave you, and that's His promise, and God cannot lie.

[@TheDrummaBen]

@@joshualowe286 Right... I just don't think our wills are free before we are regenerated. Jesus said unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of God. I just think that the Lord chooses us, creates in us a new heart that then freely, based on its new desires chooses Christ. I don't see how our choice leads to new birth. Since we are described as "dead in sin" anyways we don't need to get into it. Lol Peace to you brother!

[@denonjoka8848]

Thanks Pst. Stephen Nicols, Pst. Derek Thomas, Pst. Ian Hamilton & The Late R. C. Sproul *4 Answering This Powerful, Blessful, Deep Question of "Did Jesus Die 4 The Sins of Every Person or Only 4 The Elect ?" Where According 2 Me, Our Great LORD Jesus Christ Died 4 The Sins of Every Person Where The Past, Present & Future Sins are Forgiven 4 God Commandeth His Love Towards Us That While We Were Yet Still Sinners, Christ Died 4 Us 4 Our Great LORD Jesus Christ Did Not Come 4 The Righteous But 4 The Sinners 4 God So Love The World That He Gave His Only Begotten Son That Whatsoever Believes In Him Shall Not Perish But Have Everlasting Life & We Did Not Love Him But That He Loved Us That He Gave His Son 2 Be The Propitiation 4 Our Sins Written In Romans 5:8, Matthew 9:13, John 3:16 & 1st John 4:10 Where I Say That The Late R. C. Sproul Is Very Ryt* & God Bless Yu The Late R. C. Sproul, Stephen Nicols, Derek Thomas, Ian Hamilton & Ligonier Ministries So Very Much 4 I Have Been Blessed.🙏🙏🕊️🕊️

[@SimpleManGuitars1973]

David Allen recently wrote a book called The Extent of the Atonement. In that book, which is almost 800 pages, he goes into incredible historical detail on the Atonement of Christ and the most amazing thing about it is that Calvin HIMSELF didn't even believe in Limited Atonement. Anybody interested in exploring this subject deeply would no doubt greatly profit from that book.

[@ManassehJones]

Dr. Allen could have reduced those 800 pages to just a couple verses of the Extent of the Atonement. Romans 9:8,11,13,16,18-19 That is, They which are the children of the flesh,👉 these are not the children of God👈: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. [11] (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) [13] As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. [16] 👉So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 👈[18] Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. [19] Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? 👉For who hath resisted his will?👈 ANSWER TO WHO HAS RESISTED HIS WILL: NONE. Meticulous Divine Determinism.

[@rpavich]

Lol...boloney

[@jasonpellegrini7148]

Calvin Didnt.believe in Limited Atonement 😂.Its great yet all the 5 point fanatics champion him. Do your history you intellectual ego maniacs. The fathers which the apostles themselves he walked with jesus bealived in free will amd never mentioned limited Atonement.

[@slyone1726]

"But there are not a few who would be indignant at having their belief in God questioned, who yet seem greatly to fear imagining Him better than He is." - George MacDonald

[@christianuniversalist]

I love G. Mac. He's a major reason why I believe in the restitution of all.

[@4walls559]

WHAT?

[@slyone1726]

@@4walls559 What exactly are you asking "WHAT?", to?

[@RenewalCreations]

What does John 3:16 say? For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whosoever believes in him would have eternal life. Jesus died for the world. Not for certain people. For everyone.

[@davenaicker495]

True. I agree. He died for the entire world but the entire world does not believe. That's why he says whosoever will come. But he also did elect from the beginning those he personally chose to be his children. Those he did not choose have something we all possess. It's called choice

[@warrenchamberlain3221]

@@davenaicker495 how is there choice if you weren't chosen or predestined to believe

[@davenaicker495]

@@warrenchamberlain3221 I think God may have exercised his power of being God. That is he can do anything he wants. If you think God is unjust or unfair remember you are a created Being.

[@joelhamilton6720]

Praise Him

[@robertmagee8257]

Jesus died for all knowing that there will be those who reject Lord Jesus. Share the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all. Each person will make a choice to repent or continue in their sins.

[@Thewalkhome7]

John 6:63-65 .. it’s not up to human desire but up to those whom the father by the spirit grants the gift of saving faith to believe in the son. And this was and eternal decision. It’s biblical.

[@robertmagee8257]

Yes that is true. However, we are to share the Gospel of Jesus to everyone as commanded by the Lord. Faith comes by hearing, and hear by the Word of God. The Holy Spirit moves upon the listener. God already knows who will or who will not repent; we all have free will to make choices in life.

[@johngodsey5327]

@@Thewalkhome7 that’s not what that verse means. Also some who didn’t believe them, believed later. Those in acts who were Pharisee that Jesus said “weren’t my sheep” later believed and became his sheep. Stay in school kids

[@rpavich]

Sorry...that flies in the face of clear scripture...John 6:35-45 for example. (the word "for" is "in place of"...) If He died "In place of" (took the father's wrath) in place of a human...then that human cannot go to Hell...Jesus said it..

[@rpavich]

@@johngodsey5327 Sorry...walk through the text...you are 100% wrong.

[@fro2485]

Lawson knocked that answer out of the park

[@solideomusical]

I find the 'double jeopardy' argument compelling.

[@iamBlackGambit]

Well in the court of law..you don't punish an innocent person, and yet jesus was innocent, but he was punished anyways 🤷🏾‍♂️ god doesn't have to go by man's rules double jeopardy doesn't mean anything to a creator who made all things..he is just and holy in all his ways

[@stevehardwick7285]

John 10 says it all, Jesus knows his sheep and they know him and come when he calls. He gave his life for his sheep.

[@donsimonds5186]

I love all these men, I believe they follow scripture to the best of their ability, no one is perfect. When it was said that, if Jesus died for everyones sin and then the sinner was not in Christ dies and he's punished again for the same sin and that's double jeopardy and to say that is reaching beyond our own knowledge. I guess you could say that our legal system is based on the word of God but you can't necessarily say that double jeopardy is God's law or command, it is not, it is man's and it was just applied to God, how do we know if God ignores or applies double jeopardy. The scripture does say he visits the sins of the father upon the 3rd and 4th generation so it's a study that's open to interpretation and I think it shouldn't have been used here because it's too unsure and unclear whether or not God sees it the way man sees it. By the way RC wrapped it up like no one else can. And thank you gentlemen for being a follower of RC Sproul and seeking to follow up on his life with the truth of scripture oh, God bless great job.

[@numbers22_28]

I have heard a lot of worthless jiberish on the 'net', but this has to be the least of all worthlessness. What nonsense! None of them made any attempt to answer the question except rhe last guy and his answer was pitiful. Did God intend for every person in history to be saved? Yes, 1 Tim 2:4. Will he save anyone without their obedience to the gospel? No, 1 Peter 4:17 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? No one in the entire Bible ever pleased God nor is saved, without obedience.

[@michaelborg5798]

You’re missing the point about why they used legal language, they used legal language because the language used for justification was used in a legal sense. It isn’t used because that is what our own courts but from the original audience. Romans 3 is littered with legal language of the first century, it’s as if God brings humanity into court and finds everyone guilty. Then apart from that, justification is found by faith, the benefits of justification is eternal life and peace with God. It is against scripture and plain reason to have eternal life and then lose it as both are gifts.

[@dalelinebarger8439]

He’s not punished in double jeopardy for his sins, he is thrown into hell because he doesn’t believe. John 3:16-19

[@forhisglory700]

When in doubt, bring on RC.

[@tedprice5828]

If all sin was not atoned for then sin would not be dealt with.

[@williams33able]

Romans and Phillipians...As I live says the Lord every knee shall bow to me and every toungue shall confess to God...That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven things in earth and things under the earth...that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father..

[@edwardelliott5756]

Absolutely astounding. The blessings of the knowledge of Gods plan imparted here.

[@dkreeves61]

Only the last guy who commented had any idea what the Bible teaches. The other two guys said nothing but humanistic nonsense that had no Biblical basis. Only “astounding” thing was that the first two guys were considered to be Scholars.

[@JohanDee]

To me, the only question is: Do you accept his salvation? When yes, one repents from his sins, be baptized by submersion under water an receive the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands. This is for every person. In certain situations like the repenting thief on the cross, or even accepting Christ on the treshold of death (kind of the same) the person can also be saved. When you reject the sacrifice of the Lord, you just don’t want to partake of salvation.

[@fredbrown1418]

FB..evidence of scripture where the laying of hands imparts the Holy Spirit. Read Ephesians 1: 13

[@patiduran2438]

No, no accepts God. It's contrary to the fallen nature. No free will in salvation. Regeneration before Faith. It's all God. We are choosen before the foundation of the world

[@4walls559]

DO YOU ACCEPT HIS SALVATION? JESUS TAUGHT IF YOU LOVE ME OBEY MY COMMANDMENTS. YOU ARE SAVED BY OBEDIENCE. WHAT YOU WANT FROM JESUS YOU MUST GIVE FREELY TO OTHERS.

[@bobbieross2995]

I grew up in a family where I never did anything right. Now at 80 I struggle with election because I’m not sure I didn’t get this wrong and I’m really not saved. I’m terrified of hearing those dreaded words depart from me I never knew you “ Could someone talk to me about this.

[@christianuniversalist]

Calvinism is Satanic. It’s a infected lesion on Christianity.

[@bobbieross2995]

Didn’t expect that reply. Sure didn’t help

[@bobthomas1536]

Calvin is wrong, Christ’s Salvation is for everyone but not everyone will heed Christ call. The fact that you fear God tells me you are saved!! It tells me you understand what’s at stake. Don’t forget about the two thieves being crucified with Christ. One showed fear and remorse and God gave him grace. Seek God he is there to find , for everyone. But not everyone will seek. That’s a choice that God freely gives you.

[@Thewalkhome7]

Brother I will say this rather than argue not a point of historical debate between Calvin and one Arminian. I would say this, open up the word of God in the testimony of our brother John and sit with the Lord Jesus’ words in prayer. From the testimonies inception to every I am statement to him praying for all those that the father would give him, on the night of his arrest (ch 17) and with your heart rendered with fear and Hopefully joy may the Lord the Holy Spirit bare witness with your Spirit that you are are truly of the elect sheepfold of Christ. And, rest in the joy and comfort of his FINISHED work on your behalf. Peace and GRACE BE WITH YOU my friend.

[@SimpleManGuitars1973]

You DIDN'T do anything right. You DID do everything wrong. THAT'S THE POINT. HOWEVER, JESUS DID do EVERYTHING right and it's HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS that is imputed to all who will BELIEVE IN HIM. Martin Luther once said "God I thank thee that I have sinned. For thou didst die to save sinners." Christ DIED so YOU might LIVE and LIVE MORE ABUNDANTLY. Paul said to "forget those things which are BEHIND". Some of those things which are behind are all the sins that God forgave you of through CHRIST but not ONLY did Jesus die for your PAST sins but for your CURRENT sins and for your FUTURE sins because if we CONFESS our SINS to him he is faithful and just to forgive us of ALL unrighteousness and ALL who do this are saved! Period! Praise be unto God for his unspeakable gift! Rest assured in this my friend! Honestly what your family was telling you is tantamount to "works based salvation". As if you could be "good enough". My friend there is NONE good NO NOT ONE and I'm glad it's that way because Jesus didn't come to call the righteous but SINNERS to repentance. Did Peter not deny three times? Yes. But he also WEPT BITTERLY. Judas "repented himself" and thought that what HE could do in giving back the money would save him. It couldn't. ANYBODY that stops short of Calvary is a hellbound sinner but ALL who come to Jesus he will IN NO WISE CAST OUT. That means YOU and that means me. I'm SO grateful for that! I hope this helps you but honestly it blesses me just to share it with you.

[@WhosoeverMayCome]

Conditional election. Yes it is a particular redemption, no question. But it is Conditional on our faith. That is the perfect marriage between "whosoever" and "I lay my life down for my sheep"

[@terminat1]

If Jesus died for every last person, nobody would go to Hell. People go to Hell to pay for their sins. The Bible clearly teaches that many are on the road to destruction.

[@christianuniversalist]

Sounds like Calvinism

[@terminat1]

@@christianuniversalist I don't call myself a Calvinist. I just proclaim what the Bible teaches.

[@christianuniversalist]

@@terminat1 so Calvinism is not Biblical?

[@terminat1]

@@christianuniversalist I didn't say that. One should not refer to themselves by any title. One should only follow the Bible.

[@christianuniversalist]

@@terminat1 indeed.

[@markshard]

Yes, he died for all but He has known from the start who would respond. For a few (Moses, David, His Apostles, Paul, etc) He chose for a special purpose

[@thomasnorton4610]

If Christ died for everyone, how come many will go to Hell? Is God going to demand a 2nd payment? Arminians will tell you that many who are as much as bought by the Blood of Christ as you will go to Hell. Christ died for the sins of his peoe (Matthew 1:23) and only brlievers are his people (John 1:12).

[@rocketsurgeon1746]

Wrong. 1 john 2:2

[@thomasnorton4610]

@@rocketsurgeon1746 I'm afraid you don't understand 1 John 2:2. "Our sins" does not refer to All Christians but only Jewish Christians. "The Whole World" refers not to every single person (including the lost). Instead it refers to the Gentile Christians. The Elect from the four winds of the earth, every people and tribe, every nation and tongue

[@rocketsurgeon1746]

@@thomasnorton4610 i might be the one understanding it, my friend :) the passage is clear. Read the greek too. Many calvs think they have the top scholars in their corner and rely on them too much. RC and John have great content, but I disagree with them on this

[@TKK0812]

Because no one goes to heaven simply because their sins have been forgiven. Salvation also includes Christ's resurrection to life, the Hoy Spirit being sent, repentance, faith, grace, regeneration and being born again, justification, glorification, final judgement etc. All these aspects and more are all part of the process of salvation and you can't remove any. That's why Jesus can have paid the price for all sins and yet not every person will be saved. Calvinists like to hyper-focus on this issue as if it's a serious objection and bring in unbiblical ideas like "2nd payments" that are not only foreign to the text but foreign to any non-calvinist soteriology. I'd encourage you to actually learn from the best of those who disagree with you, because this isn't a serious objection and it leads me to believe you haven't attempted to understand the position of those who disagree with you.

[@losnfjslefn8857]

Because you are saved not by Jesus dying on the cross (it's a necessary component of salvation, but in and of itself is not what grants eternal life), you are saved by grace THROUGH faith. The free gift of Eternal Life has come upon ALL men unto the justification of life, but this gift must be *received* through faith (the word "received" is used in the active tense, meaning the one getting the gift is the one *doing* the receiving).

[@fightthegoodfightoffaithmi8676]

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Romans 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

[@c.h.r.i.s.t.i.n]

Why would it be for the elect only? Besides John 3:16 says the world so that's what I'm going with. "For God so loved the world..." God bless!

[@aleczamora6993]

The death of Christ does have benefits for the non elect called common grace but saving grace is for those who believe. John 3.16 explains how a person is saved not who gets saved. The idea is that God loved the entire world not just the Jews.

[@aleczamora6993]

Jesus is going to get the full reward for his suffering in that last day. He will not be dissatisfied. Jesus is a perfect savior all those for whom he died will go to heaven

[@ManassehJones]

1 John 2:15 KJVS Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

[@c.h.r.i.s.t.i.n]

@@ManassehJones thats about man loving the Father tho, the reverse of what I said.

[@c.h.r.i.s.t.i.n]

@@aleczamora6993 indeed only the elect will be saved but God loved the world. Not "For God so loved the elect, that he gave his only begotten son. Potentially every sinner can be saved so he would have to come for the whole world or maybe his sacrifice is forfeit. Jesus welcomed a traitor after all right into his midst. Only Satan says Jesus does he have nothing to do with. He came for sinners, tho, which we all are so I tend to think that since he came for all of us, it us then up to all of us to accept or reject the invitation. But the invitation is given to everyone. The "elect" cant even get elected until Christ's crucifixion. In my ever so humble opinion anyway.

[@bobbymichaels2]

Death is our physical penalty of the curse, of our sins. We still pay the price. The gift is life after death to all who believe.

[@rocketsurgeon1746]

I am still amazed that men that study the Bible so much, leave out all the verses stating Jesus died "once for all". My Jesus died for all that would believe.

[@williamallen5369]

That word all refers to "all kinds" or "all types" not all people.

[@rocketsurgeon1746]

@@williamallen5369 standard calvanist talking point. Believe what you want but the bible does not support the "not really all" narrative

[@tatie7604]

@@rocketsurgeon1746 Cannot fully understand Calvanism-- except that if you don't trust in Jesus Christ as your Saviour, how can you be saved?

[@rocketsurgeon1746]

@@tatie7604 truth. I'm pretty sure God made the Bible for the lowest common denominator (me), so I wouldn't need a strongs concordance to be saved.

[@aleczamora6993]

A Calvinist would agree with that Jesus died for all who would believe

[@ChamomileMineral]

We are all sinners. All. God died for the whole world. But we ALL did not obey God when we heard the gospel to repent and believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. God draws us to repentance and I believe he is calling everyone too but not come. Many are called few are chosen. I’m Still growing in my understanding.

[@rosario508]

I like how British people say “God’s rawth”

[@pauljohn1979]

The British Isles has a vast array of accents. Each nation has vast differences in accents in each one of them

[@rosario508]

@@pauljohn1979 Thank you for that BRILLIANT insight. Where would I be without you?

[@lil18thletterking77]

@@rosario508 alright alright cool it with the sarcasm

[@williams33able]

In Revelation 5..It talks about Christ reedeemed us to God by his blood out of every kindred tribe nation toungue and people something to that affect so he died for all...

[@jessyjonas4988]

Man in seeking a niche creates confusion. The message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple Jesus Christ died to save sinners from death

[@earl_grey_777]

Granting repentance through following Christ is not for everybody, "It is (only) for everyone our Lord God will choose."(Acts 2:39) even the devils know exactly who God is, and who Christ is - it was made plain to them so they are without excuse. they continue to go on their ways sinning knowing and "believing" what they know. Will this sort of belief save them in this manner? Absolutely not!. For Christ told them already once :"Why are you calling me "Lord, Lord" and not do what I commanded? - depart from me you workers of iniquity! therefore "not willing anyone should perish" is a figure of speech that should be taken in context of the full Scripture, because "hell is reserved for satan and his angels", and Christ himself said about salvation : " many are called, few are chosen" and that few enter through the narrow path, and the rest - the many that are already predestined to go through gate to destruction that is the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars that shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. It is God that predestined only certain souls to follow Christ for salvation (John 6:37), and others - those whose sins are too heavy in the sight of God- are already predestined for destruction. The Gospel, in Romans 9 clearly states: " God said to Moses : “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on human (or any other being) desire or effort, only on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” who are you, a human (or any other) being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience (6000 years now) the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory." The Day of The Lord is near and getting nearer each second like a thief in the night when God's chosen ones will be taken up to the clouds to meet Christ, and the rest are to be delivered to the lake of fire. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality Alas(for the ungodly) for that day! For the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

[@kyloooooo]

Good you got the milk down, now on to the meat.

[@jessyjonas4988]

what would John the Baptist think He was simply the voice of one crying in the wilderness WE NEED PREACHERS WHO WILL SIMPLY CRY REPENT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND. But this is what COVID IS FOR

[@earl_grey_777]

The Gospel has been preached enough for all who needed to hear it. The Day of The Lord is at the door approaching each second. Some take comfort in warning messages thinking "if there is a warning, then there is still time". Warning messages are spoken day and night, and yet the End of the age will come shortly in a blink of an eye when the chosen people The Lord God delivered for salvation to Christ will be caught up in the clouds, and so The Day of The Lord will manifest suddenly like a thief in the night, and the destruction of the ungodly will begin in a split second, even between two letters of the Gospel being preached, even between two letters of a warning.

[@jessyjonas4988]

@@earl_grey_777 the message is not preached enough this is not biblical. How we know this “ And the Good News about the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world so that all nations will hear it and then the end will come” Matthew 24:14 The end is not yet. The Gospel will be preached in the great tribulation

[@johnnyperez1969]

Ok let’s knock off baloney! Jesus died on the cross for the world! John 3:16 get it!!

[@earl_grey_777]

Some try to construct a convenient religion out of few quotes from the Gospel. The Gospel is more than few quotes, is the fullness of the doctrine. For the same Gospel mentions that some are trying to avoid sound doctrine by twisting the Scriptures to their own destruction. For even demons know and believe in what they already know about who Christ is. Will this save them? Not at all! Even Christ made clear that not all that call on His name will be saved. For many will hear on Judgement Day the same words from Christ "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do what I commanded? Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you". Many were called, few were chosen, and many already entered the wide gate that leads to destruction. It is God that predestined only certain souls to follow Christ for salvation (John 6:37), and the rest - those whose sins are too heavy in the sight of God- are already predestined for destruction. The Gospel, in Romans 9 clearly states: " God said to Moses : “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on human (or any other being) desire or effort, only on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” who are you, a human (or any other) being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience (6000 years now) the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory." The Day of The Lord is near and approaching each second like a thief in the night when God's chosen ones will be taken up to the clouds to meet Christ, and the rest are to be delivered to the lake of fire. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality

[@carmensiekierke3579]

Johnny Perez......Jesus died ( made atonement) for people of every tongue, tribe, nation. Jesus did not just die for the Jews. He also died for Gentiles.

[@johnnyperez1969]

@@carmensiekierke3579 Amen Carmen!!!

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@@johnnyperez1969 So, please clarify what you think John 3:16 means............because my comment to you is the Reformed theological view. Jesus did not die ( make atonement) for every human being who has ever lived on the earth.

[@johnnyperez1969]

@@carmensiekierke3579 yes he did ! He the lamb of God! He died for the whole world! Not some of it half of it! There is nothing to explain it’s plain as day!! The world!!

[@brettmagnuson8318]

Another verse to consider is the words of the angel of the Lord to Mary about Christ. “…for he will save *his* people from *their* sins.” Think about how many other ways the purpose of Christ coming could have been said….

[@jamiekernahan6177]

I died so all of u WOUKD be taught the devine knowledge of spirit

[@Orgellist]

All God’s servants have a specific calling. To plant and/or water and/or harvest. Only God is able to give the increase. It is important that we are a Christian, not to be named with the name of the preacher we like to hear. His thoughts are higher then our thoughts and His ways higher then our ways. Never try to understand God. The Gospel is: Repent ye and believe. He wants us to ask for a new heart. Never stop asking until you know that He gave you a new heart. Unless you know it for sure, keep asking. When you know it for sure, He did it not for your sake, but for His great Name’s sake. Eternity will not be too long to sing praises to Him for this Love of God to dead worthy sinners.

[@carmensiekierke3579]

The gospel of John begins with what sounds like universal language. In John 1: 9....Jesus is the true Light who gives light to every man. Even most people who think Jesus died for everyone who has ever lived do not think Jesus has enlightened everyone who has ever lived. Sometimes universal language in Scripture is not meant to teach universality.

[@bball1777]

We must accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior and believe He is the Son of God. If everyone chose to follow Jesus, they would receive His light. And the Bible says God has given every person a chance to believe. Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of Him (God) from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." (Of course, as Christians, the Bible still tells us to share the gospel of Jesus to others, Jesus' Great Commission in Matthew 28; what a privilege it is that God uses His children to carry out His work!). Have a blessed weekend!

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@@bball1777 Romans 1:20 is referring natural revelation........By creation ( natural revelation) God has revealed that He is the Creator. Because of this, no human being is without excuse.....because they KNOW God is the Creator. They suppress this knowledge in unrighteousness. SPECIAL REVELATION for salvation is only available through Scripture. Romans 1:20 is not saying " every person has the chance to believe."

[@carmensiekierke3579]

@bball17, From your comment.......you have never heard of " natural revelation' ( which is not saving revelation and only brings condemnation), and " special revelation" ( which is only found in the Bible). Romans 1: 20 is not a verse about the Trinity. @bball, how do you decide what a verse means? How do you do what is called " hermeneutics" ( biblical interpretation?

[@tedprice5828]

If all sin has not been atoned for then part of the creation is still under the curse. If all men were present at Calvary ie to crucify Christ then all sin for all men would need to be atoned for, not part sin. Those who do not believe would have the victory. The first death is that we are dead in our sins and believing and trusting in Christ saves us from the second death. Those who do not believe are already dead and they will go through the second death which is judgement.

[@margaretferkranus6705]

THANK you

[@Johnvalkyre]

Only for those who accept Jesus.

[@kevinjackson2361]

To all those who believe! Its pretty simple. 1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; John 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; It's pretty simple RC those that believe.

[@elisabethtrotter4564]

Jesus Christ went to the cross and now lives to set sinful you free from death and hell. Repent and turn your heart to Him before it’s too late. If He calls your heart, say yes!

[@rampartranger7749]

ANSWER: Yes. And Yes.

[@lesliecurlis4846]

John 17, says it all. "I do not pray for the world." "I pray for those you have given me."

[@gwine2nine52]

vs 20 my prayer is not for them alone but for those who will believe in me through thier message...vs 17 is only a reference to those who he was with while on the earth(disciples)to take the message to the rest of the world..

[@jevonmatthews8616]

The question before R.C’s question is this: Did God Intend for every person to fall through Adam’s sin? Can we answer the question of God’s intent in salvation, without answering his intent in the fall?

[@rubiks6]

I guess the question before your question is, did God intend for Adam to fall? Is it possible for God to maintain His sovereignty while allowing Adam to fall without being the cause of Adam's fall? Was Adam free to sin or not to sin? (Parenthetical note: When God gave Adam the command not to eat of the tree or he would die, Adam understood everything God said, for God had put language into the man at the time of his creation. That means Adam understood "death" though he had never seen it or experienced it. If you need this point unpacked in order to proceed to my first question, I can do so.)

[@jevonmatthews8616]

@@rubiks6 I stopped at my question because I’m really more concerned with Federal headship rather than an infralapsarian/supralapsarian debate. Because federal headship ties into the panel’s discussion on whether or not Jesus died for every person. If Adam represented all of man, as it goes, and by his sin all mankind fell into sin, then the second Adam’s death means all shall be made alive (1 Cor 15:22, not in a universal salvation way, I understand). The parallel between Adam and Christ breaks down if Christ’s atonement for all doesn’t undo Adam’s sin that brought death to all.

[@mo86r97]

Depends on who answer the question. If it is the religious by the doctrines of man/demons then naturally the answer would be from a religious perspective. However, the sheep, unlike the goats, would not be wasting their time with religiously instituted political system as they await, or would only respond to the ONE who enters through “the door”, into the….House. So yes, save the elect first or get them in their position of authority before the others can be “saved”. (An elect is someone who holds public office, as plain as it gets)

[@alanhales6369]

Jesus died for everyone, but people have to receive salvation from their own free will.

[@jessyjonas4988]

The good news if the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that Jesus Christ died for sinners. Sinners need to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. That's it

[@earl_grey_777]

Granting repentance through following Christ is not for everybody, "It is (only) for everyone our Lord God will choose."(Acts 2:39) even the devils know exactly who God is, and who Christ is - it was made plain to them so they are without excuse. they continue to go on their ways sinning knowing and "believing" what they know. Will this sort of belief save them in this manner? Absolutely not!. For Christ told them already once :"Why are you calling me "Lord, Lord" and not do what I commanded? - depart from me you workers of iniquity! therefore "not willing anyone should perish" is a figure of speech that should be taken in context of the full Scripture, because "hell is reserved for satan and his angels", and Christ himself said about salvation : " many are called, few are chosen" and that few enter through the narrow path, and the rest - the many that are already predestined to go through gate to destruction that is the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars that shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. It is God that predestined only certain souls to follow Christ for salvation (John 6:37), and others - those whose sins are too heavy in the sight of God- are already predestined for destruction. The Gospel, in Romans 9 clearly states: " God said to Moses : “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on human (or any other being) desire or effort, only on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” who are you, a human (or any other) being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience (6000 years now) the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory." The Day of The Lord is near and getting nearer each second like a thief in the night when God's chosen ones will be taken up to the clouds to meet Christ, and the rest are to be delivered to the lake of fire. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality Alas(for the ungodly) for that day! For the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

[@jessyjonas4988]

@@earl_grey_777 Jesus Christ died for sinners. We do not know who the chosen are . That is not our concern. We are told to go out and preach the gospel that is our mission

[@nando7522]

If Jesus died for the sins of every person then the difference between the sinner in hell and the Saint in heaven is the Saint's obedience. God did his part and now it is up to those who are smart enough, godly enough, good enough to choose Him. Essentially Jesus made it possible but the thing that brought about your salvation was your good decision. The sinner in hell rejected God's grace while you had the wherewithal to accept it. The difference in that system is you not Jesus. Congratulations you just saved yourself.

[@em-dc8fe]

‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:7‭-‬13‬ ‭MSG‬‬ [7-10] Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus. Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It’s God’s gift from start to finish! We don’t play the major role. If we did, we’d probably go around bragging that we’d done the whole thing! No, we neither make nor save ourselves. God does both the making and saving. He creates each of us by Christ Jesus to join him in the work he does, the good work he has gotten ready for us to do, work we had better be doing. [11-13] But don’t take any of this for granted. It was only yesterday that you outsiders to God’s ways had no idea of any of this, didn’t know the first thing about the way God works, hadn’t the faintest idea of Christ. You knew nothing of that rich history of God’s covenants and promises in Israel, hadn’t a clue about what God was doing in the world at large. Now because of Christ-dying that death, shedding that blood-you who were once out of it altogether are in on everything.

[@JerichoLeon]

How could these learned men miss these simple teachings from Jesus? "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21 ESV ""Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock." - Matthew 7:24 ESV Focus on the doing part. Jesus paid the price we cannot pay. He is the way, so we believe Him, and in believing Him, we obey Him. Yes, you can call it works, the same way James does: "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." - James 2:17 ESV

[@JerichoLeon]

@@kylesimmons9457 Well... RC Sproul stated here that if God intended everyone to be saved, and not everyone is saved, then it is a failure on God’s part. He would then presume that limited atonement is true, wherein God intended only the limited elect to be saved. What the Bible says is that the reason people do not get saved is NOT because God didn't intend for them to be saved, but that they did not DO the will of the Father. Therefore the failure is not on God, but on people. The atonement is for all the world, but the requirement for the atonement to apply to the person is faith, and then in believing, actually obeying. Jesus is the way, He is made accessible, but people refuse to accept His gift of salvation. As Jesus said: "And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil." - John 3:19

[@ManassehJones]

The Elect produce fruit. These men just provided edible, eternal, truth. That's the "works" of God.

[@JerichoLeon]

@@kylesimmons9457 ok then

[@larrythepcguy5474]

@@JerichoLeon Well said !

[@larrythepcguy5474]

@@kylesimmons9457 The elect are the bride class, mostly martyred beheaded first century Christians, mostly former Jews aka Apostles, prophets. Revelation 7, 14, 21, , first few scriptures in each chapters The bride was resurrected as firstfruits revelation 20, after the unfaifull carnal woman/israel was destroyed in 70AD by the Romans. End of the OT covenant! Jesus and the bride spiritual Israel have been inviting the nations to their wedding ever since ! Blessing of the New Covenant! Revelation 21 and 22 THE GOAL OF ISRAEL WAS TO BE A HOLY NATION OF KINGS AND PRIESTS TO BLESS THE NATIONS ! It has arrived in the SPIRIT

[@margaretferkranus6705]

This is a subject I really need more knowledge on

[@stevehardwick1578]

It's really quite simple, if he atoned for everyone's sin then everyone will go to Heaven. That's not biblical.

[@mirrorwax5842]

John 3:16. Pretty clear what the Bible has to say on the matter. The key word in the passage would be WHOSOEVER

[@rubiks6]

The "whosoever" does not stand alone but is qualified by the words that follow, "... believeth in him ...".

[@PinkYellowGreen2023]

Jesus died for your sins! This is basic Bible knowledge! Thanks for sharing! He forgives you.

[@edgarmorales4476]

Jesus knew He was one of the Father’s gift of salvation to the world, NOT as the Jews and you Christians were taught down the centuries, salvation from the punishment meted out by the wrath of God; BUT to save us from the daily repetition of the same mistakes in wrong thinking - wrong thinking which created our misfortunes, poverty, sickness and misery. But because Jesus Loved the human race so deeply, Jesus was prepared to teach and heal in defiance of religious authorities. Jesus was prepared to die on the cross for what He had truly seen in the desert, knew with all His heart, and wanted to share to the last drop of His ability to do so. THIS IS THE TRUTH BEHIND JESUS' CRUCIFIXION AND ALL THE REST WE’VE HEARD IS MAN-MADE CONJECTURE ARISING OUT OF THE JEWISH PRACTICE OF BURNT OFFERINGS IN THE TEMPLE. Jesus was a gift from the Father to humankind to help us surmount our ignorance of the LAWS of EXISTENCE, and to find the true PATH of LIFE leading to the joy, abundance and perfect wholeness of the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

[@BlueWambat]

It's interesting that they only provide philosophical/logical defense of Limited Atonement doctrine, but not a scriptural defense - and a bit disappointing. However, I think this is because while Limited Atonement is the logical conclusion of the other four points of Calvinism, it is not taught expressly in scripture. In fact, you have scriptures that express exactly the opposite. (1 John 2:2) This is why I'm not a Calvinist - without Limited Atonement the rest of the four points unravel.

[@nathanmagnuson2589]

Calvinism is one of the most rotten fruits of Western Christianity, and there are A LOT of rotten fruits to choose from.

[@BlueWambat]

@@nathanmagnuson2589 I would have to disagree there. There are far worse fruits that produce apostasy, and that's not Calvinists by any reasonable stretch. But I do think Calvinism is problematic.

[@siegfriedbartel7122]

God, I give you glory for everything else, but not my faith ... This is the one thing that is my very own that I produced of my fallen natural capacities. For this little bit the glory is mine. I am glad that you are not 100% sovereign in every element, aspect and work of you my Salvation with all its gift and benefits which are included therein. Otherwise YOU (The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY OF THE HOLY BIBLE) would have been the only one in the entire Universe, whereby ALL Salvation would actually have been a complete and total and absolute gift of and from YOU only. So I thank you Lord that I am not like other men who do not have faith. When you extended your grace to all men some did not make use of it, BUT I DID.While You deserve glory for all I have Lord, my biblical faith, believing, trust and repentance in you was the one part that I contributed from my human side, apart from YOU, who have created me in the first place, to the price of my redemption and all Salvation and all your works, apart from and independent of the effectual work of YOU, the Holy Father, YOU, YESHUA my Messiah, YOU, the Holy Spirit."I am so grateful that I can thank myself for my own decision, coming to YOU, accepting YOU and receiving YOU ...I am very glad....thank you... PS: NOT my own/my prayer...💞😊

[@rubiks6]

I still didn't come away with a clear answer. Each man explained his answer without providing his actual answer. Two alternatives are offered in the title question, separated by an "or." Which is it? 1) Jesus died "for the sins of every person ..." OR 2) Jesus died "only for the elect."

[@dennisokada9287]

Let’s just say that if it were left up to man to decide whether or not to invite the Savior into his life, what would happen? Can man who has a fallen nature (“dead in sin”) still possess the ability to choose salvation?

[@larrythepcguy5474]

It's not choosing salvation as a one time package event, its conviction of the sin nature in us, that calls out for the help, which is given in the Spirit of Christ as a santifying seed. Salvation is 1. conviction of our needs, 2. santification by the Spirit in our spirit 3. and the over coming power through Christs spirit working in us, to put satan and his angels and our fallen nature, under our feet ! 19 The report of your obedience has reached everyone. Therefore I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise about what is good, and yet innocent about what is evil. 20 The God of peace will *soon crush Satan under your feet* . The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. Romans 16 A seed needs to mature !

[@kimwestwood8840]

The bible is clear on WHO gets saved. John 2:2 “And he (Jesus) is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 Timothy 2:4,“[God] desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” or in 2 Peter 3:9, it says that “The Lord is … not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”

[@johnmartin5671]

The problem with Salvation is that whoever will die for the salvation of men has a nature (not only of course) DIVINE! Now, God cannot die (in the sense of ceasing to exist); What is the value of the sacrifice of one who will die knowing that after three days He will come back to life?

[@RachelWeeping]

Forgive or you are not FORGIVEN!!

[@bass305-HCCA]

God didn't make robots and program some to love Him and the rest reject Him. Thats not REAL love. It says in Hebrews that Jesus tasted death for every man. Jesus Himself commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT. In 2nd Peter it tells us that the false prophets turned away from their Master who BOUGHT them. In Romans Paul says, "Dont you realize that you can choose your master? You can choose obedience with acquittal or choose sin which of course leads to death." Jesus tells us that when He is lifted up on the cross, He will draw ALL MEN to Himself. Jesus DID do all the work of salvation. He IS the free Gift of Life. Now if we reject that Gift,( reject Him, ) Jesus warns us that He can erase your name from the book of life and remove your lamp stand. In Timothy it tells us that God is on one side, and man on the other side and Christ Jesus is in the middle giving His life FOR ALL MANKIND. God longs for all to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth.

[@jamesblackwood9179]

Excellent answers!

[@victormiller1334]

yeahhhh.....salvation is a choice you must make saying "work out your own salvation withth fear and trebling" declaring that man is free will created with the power of choice. this is why "To day is the day of Salvation". Christ preaching to all men "Repent for the Kingdome of Heaven is at Hand." clearly stating that "any one who has an ear let them hear." who does not have ears? the deaf ear are the ones who refuse to believe and reject the Gospel. Christ did die for all " for God so Loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who do ever believe in him should not perish" it is a unpardonable sin to die in unbelief this why what it is said "who do ever speak evil against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven". This lead to Rejecton of Truth. this is why we have a day of judgment. "God has declared a day of Judgement unto Man" for man to give an account for there lives for their actions, deeds, words, and repentance and belief in Christ. We can clearly see our words of what we say to include false doctrine of Christ that he died for some not all. Is a false empty gospel as it is said "you will stand before Judgment for every empty Words you spoke." Again "The tongue has the power of life and death" also " the things that come out of the mouth comes from the heart." Words you speak saying Christ died for some shows double mindedness and doubtfulness contradicting The Lord Jesus Christ and Our Father God. This is why Paul says "all Scripture is God breathed." Also "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." The Ressurected King Christ told us " be perfect for your father is perfect." We shall be made perfect in Love. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil. but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. "Being followed with hope and led on by love, both towards God and Christ, and towards our neighbour. For if any one hath these things, he hath fullfuiled the law of righteousness. For he hath charity is far from all sin." You see that how one can far from all sin is by Love? That is by Love "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love.But the greatest of these is love." Now you see how love is even above faith? For if you profess faith and have no love then you have no salvation. As it is said "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith That can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing." If you don't think can't be responsible for causing some one to stumble into unbelief? This will be measured back unto you. In Truth the Lord said "forgive as your father forgive." If you don't forgive then you will not be forgiven. The Lord measures to you as you measure to others. Christ says "any one who causes these little ones to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone where hung around Thier neck and they were thrown in to the Sea." You see how preaching and believing in limited attonment will be measured unto you causing people to turn from Christ. for refusing to believe or professing to believe or those who only truly believed. "it is finished" has been declared that the final sacrifice for the ransom for sin has been paid in full and is open for all that is ready and freely to accept. Scripture clearly states, declares, and says from Christ Our Living True God that he will turn no one away that seems him. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me;" the Father give the ones to Christ who are ready and willing. "and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." Even if the Father has not drawn that man. Christ will not turn away. "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own., will, but the will of him that sent me." The will of the Father being Rich in mercy "wishes no sinner to perish." Christ Died for all and for many.

[@dominicpereira6006]

Only one thief asked Jesus to save him. Jesus saved him.

[@RespiteofChampions]

He died for the elect, sure, but now that begs the question: WHO are the Elect? In MY humble opinion, it is the biblical truth that ALL who come to Christ become His Elect. All who come to believe in Christ are adopted as Sons and Daughters of Christ. So His Elect are all believers. Now we can also debate on who gets to believe and how, but that's just my analysis of the Bible truths.

[@alihoussney7870]

Scripture makes it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Jesus died only for the elect (John 10:11-15, John 11:51-53, Acts 20:28, Ephesians 5:25 and Revelation 5:9). The elect are also called the sheep and the church. If He died for all people without exception, then based on the very definition of "atonement" and "propitiation", all people without exception will be saved and that would be universalism, which is not biblical. This is also why 1 John 2:2, the famous passage that free-willers ABUSE does NOT contradict limited atonement. It is all about correctly understanding what it means to "atone" and "propitiate". Many people are too lazy to study these words and the context of the entirety of Scripture.

[@danettewing9030]

God paid for our sins once and for all of mankind. It is up to mankind whether or not they repent and receive the great salvation that our Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross for every single human being on the face of the earth. That is what the Word of God says. The choice lies within all of us. Choose you this day whom you will serve. (Joshua 24:15). We must repent, turn away from our sinful ways and accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior and learn through the power of the Holy Spirit that lives inside of us how to grow in our personal and intimate relationship with God. (John 16:13). That is true salvation. God gave us his Holy Spirit so we can live a holy life.

[@aletheia8054]

John 15:16 *Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you* that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

[@atonementandreconciliation3749]

“Jesus died "for" our sin, but the English word "for" can have a range of meanings, such as an exchange or a cause of action. There is a specific Greek word that can be translated as "for," indicating an exchange or a replacement, and it is the word "anti." An example of this is when Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for [anti] an eye and a tooth for [anti] a tooth.'" Both of the words translated as "for" in this verse are the Greek word "anti." It's literally, "an eye in place of an eye," or "an eye instead of an eye," or "an eye against an eye." However, the word "anti" is never used even once in any statement regarding the fact that "Christ died for us." The word "for" in all of the statements of "Christ died for us" or "Christ died for our sin," are the Greek words "dia" (meaning through), "hyper" (meaning over), and "peri" (meaning around). Not once in the Greek text is there a direct substitutionary statement used about Jesus literally taking our place as an exchange or a payment. Nevertheless, translators (for unknown reasons) seem to have preferred to use the much more ambiguous word "for," which enables the teacher and reader to assume things about the text that were never intended.” An excerpt from Chapter 12 of the book “Atonement and Reconciliation” by Kevin George.

[@francoismeiring6156]

Christ's blood (as representation of His sacrificial death) is more worth than the whole world could ever be. Because He is eternal. And... even if the world would exist forevermore it would: firstly, not catch up to Christ's existence before time... secondly, (even if it could catch up) not be perfect and holy as God is.... (Good, yes, temporarily... Not perfect...) My point is, Christ's blood is more precious, more worth and more glorious than all of creation (including the heavens and the earth)... Yet, Christ's blood is shed to sanctify the whole world (not the heavens)... And His blood will wash away all the filth, sins, rebellion, transgressions, iniquities and ungodliness. That includes you and me and everyone... (Thus, getting rid of us if we never died with Him and be resurrected in Him) However, His blood is also a transaction... A legal transaction. That is why He cried 'tetelestai'... A Greek word used in the Roman legal system to declare an accused's dept as paid. And so Christ's blood is to sanctify the world by washing away all the brokenness, and unifying it (along with the heavens) under His whole-making headship (Eph. 1:10) But it is also to pay for the sins of those whom believe. A payment that is in full. A work that was started and will be fulfilled. And any focus shifted from God to man, here, I'd call blasphemy! However, if it is a brother or sister in Christ, I know they too will be forgiven. I, therefore, pray that anyone reading this should seek God! Keep your eye on Christ. Seek Him in prayer reading and studying the Scriptures. ***Not books... the Scriptures!! God's sanctifying Word!!! The Word that became flesh... And now at the right hand of the Father in heaven! But don't forget... He left us the Word, blotted down on paper as a witness of the Word in the Word.

[@suichinggo8236]

It's not dishonoring God to say that we have a part, though not really a part for we did not nor can we work for it, it's believing His word as truth. God will judge whether we know about it or not . But God is merciful that He made Himself known to men. First to the Jews; by giving the commandments He revealed that men are sinning against Him Leviticus 4:13, 22, 27, and surely sinning against Him who is the Almighty, the Creator, the One worshipped by the Angels, is worthy of death. But in His mercy, if **we acknowledge our sin and repent**, and acknowledge that we deserve to be penalized by bringing the sin offerings Leviticus 4:14,23,28, He will accept the "proxy" on our behalf to take the penalty for our sins Leviticus 4:20,26, 31,35 and forgive us. That's why people need to know that we have sinned against God and we are doomed to be punished in hell, but praise and glory be to God, for in His mercy He is willing to forgive; **IF** we repent of our sins, acknowledge Jesus as our Saviour, meaning we acknowledge we deserve to be penalized but Jesus took it for us, and submit to Him as our Lord, meaning we will obey His instructions;. God will forgive us, and make us His people because of our Lord Jesus' obedience Isaiah 53 to His plan and will, as He had made the Jews His people, because of Abraham's obedience. So people who will end up in hell CANNOT blame God for their fate, for God did what He need not do, to have mercy and inform us where we are going and provided a way for us to escape if we would CHOOSE to believe Him.

[@earl_grey_777]

Granting repentance through following Christ is not for everybody, "It is (only) for everyone our Lord God will choose."(Acts 2:39) even the devils know exactly who God is, and who Christ is - it was made plain to them so they are without excuse. they continue to go on their ways sinning knowing and "believing" what they know. Will this sort of belief save them in this manner? Absolutely not!. For Christ told them already once :"Why are you calling me "Lord, Lord" and not do what I commanded? - depart from me you workers of iniquity! therefore "not willing anyone should perish" is a figure of speech that should be taken in context of the full Scripture, because "hell is reserved for satan and his angels", and Christ himself said about salvation : " many are called, few are chosen" and that few enter through the narrow path, and the rest - the many that are already predestined to go through gate to destruction that is the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars that shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. It is God that predestined only certain souls to follow Christ for salvation (John 6:37), and others - those whose sins are too heavy in the sight of God- are already predestined for destruction. The Gospel, in Romans 9 clearly states: " God said to Moses : “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on human (or any other being) desire or effort, only on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” who are you, a human (or any other) being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience (6000 years now) the objects of his wrath-prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory." The Day of The Lord is near and getting nearer each second like a thief in the night when God's chosen ones will be taken up to the clouds to meet Christ, and the rest are to be delivered to the lake of fire. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality Alas(for the ungodly) for that day! For the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

[@SetWillBill]

The answers to these men of God is simply, "The atonement has to be unlimited or universal because of God's faithfulness!". We can see the truth of Universal Atonement through the very first book of the Bible, at the garden of Eden. All would have to agree that Adam represented all mankind, the representative principle. Now if Adam represented all mankind and the curse of sin on all mankind (Romans 5:18) then the gospel which was first preached by God Himself to Adam was also for all mankind. The gospel which is the gift of eternal life is for all mankind. The gift of eternal life which requires atonement is for all mankind. However, not all have the faith in finished work of Jesus Christ and so not all are saved. Therefore the different between the elect and non-elect is the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:21). God shall judge the world in righteousness (Acts 17:31) Therefore, sin is not exacted twice because God is not going to judge the world in sin but in righteousness. When you read the bible through the system of theology, it is inevitable that you will be influenced by the system of theology. Instead of helping us understand God better through His Word, we becomes skew toward the system of theology which we are brought up and align ourselves towards that system of theology. Brethren, this is a curse! Not in damnation as we are all saved by the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, but cursed for trusting in the arm of flesh that our knowledge of God in Christ is tainted by the teaching of men. We should reject the name Calvin or Arminius, so that we may not be skew towards any of these men's theology but towards what the scripture teaches. This is "Sola Scriptural", and by doing this, we will begin to see very clearly that both John Calvin and Aminius had seen their sides of the truth, but both also had their errors. Men's system of theology will always had errors (1 Corinthians 1:29), as such they are meant to be a help but they are not infallible, only the scripture is infallible. So brethren live up to the spirit of the five solas and not be stuck in the 16th century Reformation which God had gracious delivered His church from the darkness of Rome.

[@tjmoneybags]

Whats so hard about free gift and acceptance? By saying it's automatic, a lot of scripture is completely unnecessary. He chose who would say yes and compels us by his spirit. He finds and saves his own. I believe in my heart and confess with my mouth and therefore I'm saved. If you don't you're not! It's plainly written.

[@reformedcatholic457]

You're promoting Westminster confession beliefs but not the reformers beliefs of the 16th century.