Did Luclin kill Everquest?

[@ShaunHall-i7e]

I'm just grateful the game was created in the first place. I was taking care of my mom when she was fighting her cancer and EQ was a world I could escape to. I met some wonderful people too! Wonderful commentary!

[@Techies06]

Luclin removed the handmade look and feel and also killed social/community in several ways. Most of the item graphics were unique; no other item in the game had the same graphic, with few exceptions. You no longer knew a player's equipment after a quick glance. That took away conversation opportunities which also helped kill the community. The instant teleportation, again killed another social aspect. The bazaar, killed the social interaction of trading and bartering. The developers seemed to be ignorant that it was a social game and with each new update they further killed social aspects which led to more and more solo style of play and less grouping and that is ultimately what killed EQ.

[@AndrewS-fe8ng]

Same thing they did to WoW, Asheron's Call, DAOC, etc.

[@BonsaiBurner]

The misdirection of eq 3 killed eq IMHO.

[@Techies06]

@BonsaiBurner that is an interesting view. I can't relate because I had already stopped playing EQ before EQ3 news but I was excited about it. I was compiling EQ-emu 3.0.x to work with the original client at the time, what a mess that turned out to be.

[@americanpig-dog7051]

I'm one of those people that lost all interest in Luclin. It had no soul. It didn't even feel like EverQuest. Imagine if Gandalf had to fight some bulb-headed space alien. What were they thinking?

[@HectorYague]

I do agree that Luclin was the breaking point where classic EQ deviated from its original formula. The game introduced convenience but sacrificed "depth": the Nexus made the world feel smaller, the Bazaar killed bartering and the market feeling of the economy, etc. I understand why they did it, but some of the game's soul was lost along then way.

[@novanogo07]

If i remember correctly the bazaar wasn't even ready at Luclin launch.

[@vovagroup4game]

I started when EQ launched and yes, Luclin was the beginning of the end. PoP was the final nail. Then everyone spread out between the 100 new mmos that were releasing every other day to cash in on the EQ subscribers until WoW gobbled up the market. The other half played Lineage 2, Aion or EVE Online.

[@eightof10]

I started just before Luclin released and the game was an absolute grind, but I loved it. I was in college, all of my roommates played and EQ is among my best memories of that time. For me, PoP was peak EQ. Yes, some people hated the the teleport system, and I personally hated the flagging system, but I understand why it was there. I'll agree with some of the others that LDoN was the downward spiral; it was for me.

[@seanmcginnis7564]

Agree PoP expansion was the pinnacle. LDoN was like what??

[@Jeremy-83]

Can we all just agree that Griegs End definitely needed more doors? There was definitely not enough doors...

[@KILRtv]

Lol! My wife and I were recently there for the first time after coming back to the game after 15 years. There's an armor quest in Scarlet Desert, and you have to go all the way through Grieg's End just to get there. Now the armor quest is pointless, because we're able to start the next one that was higher.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

So many doors!!!!

[@KILRtv]

@@Joshthegamer8600 , thankfully. They designed it in mind for groups. You can safely pull into those hallways or rest.

[@Jeremy-83]

@KILRtv I completely agree but they couldn't have added at least 2 more doors? I mean, come on...

[@EQ_EnchantX]

One of my fav zones. A friend (65 cleric), Me (65 Nec) and (65 full time gear pally from Legacy of Steel) could take on Grieg as long as we got a slower. The necro mana tap kept the cleric full, the full time gear pally could tank him without heals almost. Was a 40 min fight, but the loot was sooooo good.

[@jayr7613]

Old EQ was fantastic, old being the big 3. But in Luclin the game started to respect the players time more, something that needed to happen actually. The old game certainly has it's charm but it did make it very difficult to accomplish much even if you had a 2 hour block to play.

[@fungooloo12]

The number of corpse runs I did is staggering, not to mention the Rez's. As a cleric I was in demand and I always wanted to help people. I have fond memories of EQ from 1999-2001 when I chucked it in. Luclin was the end for me, didn't like it much although some of the QoL changes were needed.

[@CodeguruX]

Yeah, they respected the time it took for you to go out and buy a new computer. If you don't like 3 day long PoSky raids, go back to Mexico.

[@teemoney9443]

@@jayr7613 Dude, did you grind out vex thal keys for your guild? I do understand your point but I didn't feel much respect for my time after the 500,000 snake men we probably killed. The Emperor horse WAS a sweet sweet reward though.

[@Singleballtheory]

Luclin marked a heavy shift away from the "journey" being a core aspect of the game. Which is understandable to a degree, but the way they did that was to expedite levelling at every opportunity. Power creep from Velious itemization had already made most old-world and early level Kunark zones obsolete. Luclin then offered a levelling path which extended well into a player's 40s without ever having to sacrifice huge ZAM bonuses. On top of that, all races/classes/tradeskills could be managed within the centralized location of Shadow Haven so there was very little need to stray once you got there. I've always contended that the reason so many of the Luclin zones are bereft of notable mobs and intreguing points of interest is because they knew it just wouldn't matter that much. That the players weren't going to be within those level ranges long enough anyway so why bother. And for the most part they were right.

[@danielmacgibbon1589]

Luclin development was a SNAFU of epic proportions that dwarfed the typical development hells of previous expansions as well as other projects at SOE. Still, as challenging as it was, there were some top-notch collaborative efforts that made it work. And, on top of that, it was intended to be EQ’s swan song - Giving way to the next gen successor Everquest 2… which, at the time was bloated: missing deadlines, way passed scheduled release date(s), and over budget due to over-inflated egos, paychecks, and promises & poor management that cost many developers on that project, that were worth their grain in salt, dearly. To many of us, for various reasons, it was a relief that Luclin was relatively well-received. It was a hard-earned win. Not what we wanted, but as long as the fans were more than somewhat satisfied. Once we got word that EQ expansions had to cover for the shortcomings of EQ2, we sat down and used the fiasco of Luclin development to our advantage on PoP, and again on LoY & LDoN… in the Art Department at least, by finally utilizing our massive art asset libraries to our advantage to streamline development of characters to trim development time, and retain some consistency - which was tough to do for several reasons I won’t go into here, but internally, we were more than well aware of, and conceded to that criticism from players.

[@DRCEQ]

You were one of the developers for that expansion? That's cool. Have you ever tried to contact Fading on The Everquest Show? I bet he'd be more than happy to interview you about your experiences. :)

[@danielmacgibbon1589]

@@DRCEQ LOL - Yes, only for those four expansions; LDoN, PoP, LoY, and LDoN. Senior Artist, Art Lead,then Character Art Director, respectively. My take isn’t as cream-filled as the devs Fading typically interviews, so I doubt he’d take the risk. Still; Ultimately, I’m glad I got to work with some talented people, glad it created the community it did, glad that the end product was a source for positive memories, and I’m glad to have been a part of it.

[@DRCEQ]

@@danielmacgibbon1589 Still, Fading runs the EverQuest Show for the love of the game. I know he'd be able to find something fun with your experience. Personally, those four expansions where right when the art team really started to take off with the monster designs and animations. I loved them! :)

[@danielmacgibbon1589]

@@DRCEQ if he’s brave enough to consider it, I might too LOL! Thanks for the positive energy on those expansions - it’s great to hear (mostly) good feedback about them :D

[@Rakkitt]

@@DRCEQi definitely agree about the art and monster designs.

[@Merknilash]

Original EQ had a really great high fantasy vibe They eroded it with Kunark - but the Kunark setting was so cool we didn’t notice And further still Velious pulled away from the high fantasy of pixies and goblins and vampires and orcs - but it was awesome so we didn’t mind But Luclin was a bridge too far It was weird - not in a good way Most of the zones were empty and meaningless without charm or reason to be there The mobs hit hard and gave crap xp so with a few exceptions most of luclin went completely untouched

[@jcmick8430]

Quick name that zone between marus seru and the grey that you've NEVER camped a single thing in ever

[@Sarcasmses]

I definitely don't agree with that characterization of Kunark or Velious, especially Velious. Giants are staples of high fantasy, and dragons are THE icon of high fantasy, and that expansion was all giants and dragons, and dwarfs too. But Luclin definitely went away from high fantasy into weird science fiction. Now we're fighting moon people and alien babies and grim reapers and red trog people and Ridley Scott aliens that live in caves. Dumb. It's also the first expansion that has no real story line at all, there's close to zero explanation for the Akheva or what they are about even though they are the end game enemy. And half the zones are caves full of bugs.

[@guindell3119]

It's always nice to find someone else who loves Luclin. Appreciate the video!

[@Greg31558]

I'm in the "not a big Luclin fan" boat. I think by biggest gripe isn't so much that any of the features that you mentioned are "bad," but they feel less like an evolution of EQ as it was and more like a clean break. I think this is best seen in the graphics. As you pointed out, some races looked radically different, particularly Trolls and Ogres. I think they should have tried to maintain closer to the proportions and style of the old models while upping the polygon count. I get that some shifting would have been necessary to make the proportions not look weird with more polygons, and some came out better than others, but there was no reason to make ogres and trolls or even barbarians bulky masses of muscles when their previous models were fat (or thin for Barbarians). Another example is the bazaar. I think it was objectively better for selling, but there were other consequences to that. The tunnel (or strangely on my server, Saryn, North Freeport) was this central hub where you could also socialize, recruit for or be recruited into a guild, or otherwise engage with the community. Selling became easier, but that hub as it was was lost. My only critique with the style of the zones in Luclin was that they, like the new models, just felt like a different game compared to what came before. The nexus kind of has a similar issue to the bazaar. It's an objectively better way to travel, but difficulty traveling was a defining trait of EQ. When I started my Barbarian Shaman and wanted to join my friends playing Wood Elves, EQ became a game about sneaking through dangerous territory, and I felt as much accomplishment just getting to my new starting zone as I did actually leveling. That, for better or worse, was lost. AAs I could take or leave. EQ is a grindy game, and AAs were just a different grind. I don't know if giving AA-like abilities as you level up more or having them as a separate system was better or worse. Again, I could take it or leave it. I also think I disagree with the conclusion that EQ needed the changes to survive, at least to an extent. Did EQ need to evolve? Maybe. But I think the changes, as I said before, were in a lot of ways the wrong ones and, as I opened with, constituted more of a break with the past than an evolution or advancement of it. That's the opinion of this random guy on the internet anyway :)

[@Gravy65]

I don't have much to say about Luclin, cause that came out when I was leaving the game the first time (I came back 2-3 times, and by those times, it was a different game) but I just wanted to say, I was on Mith Marr, and we also used N. Freeport for our trade center. I remember going to another server to play with a friend, and being completely confused that they sell in the tunnels, was confusing that they made everyone not be near a bank.

[@Donghua-clips]

As a guy who played a Druid pre Luclin and then a Beastlord ever since. Luclin will always be my absolutely favorite expansion. Between the new race, the new class, the AA's. I loved every bit of it. Also the bazaar is hands down one fo the best features the game has ever given us. I have several bank characters full of stuff to sell on the bazaar because I hate haggling in EC so much.

[@thepixalking6589]

"How Bazaar, How Bazaar" 6:51 OMG, am I the ONLY guy that gets that reference???? That's greatness. Thanks for that and not spoiling it!!!! It just triggered so many memories for my age!!!!

[@Flea_ip]

You most certainly are not the only person to get that reference, lol. We're all that old. 🤣

[@thepixalking6589]

@@Flea_ip Good to know my friend!!!!

[@jamiekuchma]

No, we remember but we're trying to forget

[@ShaunJiggy]

I miss that segment. My ex wife and I still say it to this day

[@teemoney9443]

i used to hear that in my head in the bazaar every time I looked around

[@MastiffDane1]

Luclin was the last expansion I played. I was a die hard player from the original game, my buddies and me spent basically all of our free time in highschool playing. However Luclin never sat well with me, i still had fun but i didnt care for the graphic change at all and I hated the nexus and the new way of trading/selling. I missed the social aspect of the EC tunnel and just chilling and tossing out buffs to low levels. Also around that time I graduated and joined the military. The last time i logged on was at Pensacola NAS at an awesome place called Portside around the time PoP launched. I rented a computer to use for a couple hours that had every game at the time on it, logged in to EQ to see if any of my old buddies from back home were on, and immediately just felt like i was over the game and logged out about 15 minutes later never to play again.... Until I started on P99 about 15 years later haha.

[@Seanidor]

You didn't play a shadow knight named Kalleel did you? I used to group up with a halfling rogue named Sukkin Oliver, his wife lanlielea, and an SK named Kalleel but he ended up going into the military. It's amazing how good this game was at connecting people.

[@Orxbane]

Alternate Advancement is one of my favorite MMO ideas that no one else takes advantage of. Maybe I'm biased as a Ranger main, but it made playing Ranger even more fun and you always had something else to work towards. I also thought the fast travel systems should have been gated by levels in some way. Traveling the dangerous world as a low level was part of the adventure, but at max level, being able to quickly hop around the world to meet up with friends/guildmembers made being helpful, being helped much easier and hence, more common. Need help with that epic encounter or a specific item drop camp, sure, I'll head right over. Scouting for raid targets, etc. At low levels you tended to head to a specific area to grind out a level range and stayed there for a while. I still remember my friend and I seriously discussing whether we wanted to make the trip to Kunark and be 'trapped' there to some extent or stay in original Norrath (we started playing around Velious era).

[@gutika113]

Absolutely love these lore videos man 👌🏽

[@Joshthegamer8600]

Glad to hear it!

[@MrTexasChief]

As someone that played from Beta and for 11 years, I would not say that Luclin is what killed EQ, but Luclin set the table for what killed it for me. A tough game that forced you to EARN levels and rewards with a distinctive complimentary class system forcing players to group to accomplish in game goals is the pinnacle of original EQ. -- I started out as a bard, twisting a 4 song MANUAL twist for hours and hours every session. Swapping songs in and out, being the jack of all trades and master of none. A Bard was always welcome in a group because they could 'good enough' fill roles for multiple other classes. Luclin was the beginning of the end of EQ. AA points and horses were the biggest 2 things that would lead to class creep. It was not a huge issue at the time Luclin came out, but it was the introduction to the concepts that would be expanded on for every expansion after Luclin. Simple AA's like HP increases and stat increases led the way for AA's that would allow any class to purchase another classes' defining abilities. Later expansions would just let you flat out 'rent a class' with the mercenary system. AA's and future re-tuned abilities and spells would completely muddle the classes to the point that players didn't need each other to group and accomplish goals. Many many players with max AA's and raid gear just didn't need to group anymore. A monk's pulling ability was surpassed by bards and eventually even rangers or beastlords. A bards class defining jack of all trades became something multiple classes could do. SK's and Pallys could out aggro warriors. Warriors could snare. Druids could join the heal cycle on raids. Mage pets could out tank some tanks while the mages could keep up with wizards on DPS. Groups began to favor the BL to the Shaman because of the overhaste and Paragon, while bards (who were the only class with overhaste at one time) lost that ability to rangers, shaman, enchanters, and beastlords. The biggest spit in the face to class defining abilities was the stupid in game card game where everyone could toss a few bucks an run as fast as a bard on one of the 500 different mounts that got introduced. Each successive expansion muddied the waters of class definition by offering more and more exotic AA abilities. By the time I left EQ most experienced players I knew (including myself) were using off-raid time to multi-box and PL accounts and back-key those accounts. Because the power creep was so massive by that point, a decently raid geared and max AA'ed player could take 3 or 4 accounts and a couple merc's and form their own group of 6 and demolish end game raid zones from previous era's (like Luclin itself) and collect up the rare loot and clicky items for their alts. (Hell, I had AoE food and water sticks on at least 10 toons from Luclin). There was nothing to do outside of raids. There was no reason to search for a warrior or a cleric or an enchanter to start a group because you could tank with a Ranger-bot, heal with merc or another bot and just keep all the EXP and loot for yourself. -- The game died for me when any class could basically do any job in some way or another, and if they could not...a merc was good enough AND you didnt have waste time LFG. EQ became a soloing game where you only got together with others to do raids. -- Luclin wasn't the cause of that, but Luclin is where that pathway began.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

Very well put, thanks for adding your perspective.

[@itswakkowarner]

There were several classes in the original game that could solo and be self-sufficient. Velious is when the game lost steam and went in the wrong direction by making raiding/endgame too much of the focus. Velious is when the game became too elitist.

[@glr]

​@@itswakkowarnerBoth OP and you are right on separate fronts. I wholeheartedly agree that elitism is a massive part of what killed the game, mid-Velious. I didn't enjoy what I was seeing with guilds (despite not being affected personally), and saw no solution but to quit.

[@teemoney9443]

It was probably about that time when developers seemed to only care about elite guilds and end game content. GMs wouldn't give the time of day to a casual but an officer from an end game guild had a personal concierge fixing spawns and punishing rival guilds in raid mob disputes. Legends server drew a lot of attention to that fact as well. I think many players resented it.

[@DT-vc7hd]

The core idea of EQ was great... an adapatation of existing text MUDs but in a cutting edge 3D graphic context. What came after was classic example of what happens when the C-Suite mistook being in the right place at the right time with their own brilliance. Holding out hope the right folks pick up the torch.

[@zzz2474]

Luclin is my favorite expansion. I also really enjoyed the beastlord class back in the day.

[@jeremym1365]

EQ was great for it's time. But I think we look back at these games through the eyes of our youth. Yes, it was a blast back then when as a late teen early twenty gamer, I had days to spend to gain a single level grinding the same camps over and over to level up. But as an older gamer, I would never have that amount of time today, or even close to it. Game companies knew to get a larger market, especially aging gamers going into middle life, they needed more casual play style. I was one of those that rebelled and pushed against it for as long as I could. Going to forums and complaining it was destroying the immersion and making it too easy. But WOW, as much as I hated it at first, proved that casual made more money than long slow grinds, with corp runs, and no fast travel. I was so excited for EQ2 to be there on launch day, until I played it and had the instanced zones that made the world feel small. I missed EQ with it's open world, but I didnt miss waiting in line for a turn to kill quest mobs. Or even worse, spending an hour to run out to farm a certain item, to find it over camped. For EQ, I also remember setting my alarm clock to wake up at super odd hours, just to farm when the least number of players were on. Yes, I met some great players at those hours, and we had the run of the place most days, but it was not ideal for my daily routine in real life.

[@Morraak]

Beastlord was THE class for me. I was originally an iksar warrior because I liked to melee but always liked the idea of the of having a pet like mage or necro, but also like shamans for their debuffs, and monks for their hand to hand combat (and cool custom iksar monk attack animations). It's the perfect class for me.

[@DRCEQ]

Rallos Zek had to make Greater Faydark the game's economic center because it was safer from player-killers. The Commonlands Tunnel was prime ganking territory. As for the Vah Shir and Beastlords, I thought they were a fine addition. The nice new race with deep lore surrounding the Heretic War of Odus.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I have always avoided pvp servers due to me being terrible at it!

[@mehra6712]

I was on rallos zek back in the day too :] It was sad when the pvp servers had to merge due to decreasing player count. I think that's around when I stopped playing because it seemed like there were a lot of hackers from the incoming server

[@nektulosnewbie]

​@@Joshthegamer8600I was terrible at PvP but still loved it. The culture was unique and felt very Wild West. "A polite society is an armed society", you tread carefully to maintain your reputation more because others could kill you.

[@crowsbridge]

@@mehra6712 our PK guild basically broke in half because one side wanted to use some cheat program

[@justinallegood232]

Luclin was great and PoP was the best expansion in any MMO before or after. The real killer was the lack of catch up mechanics. Starting in Luclin you had zones that had complex keying and flagging mechanics. I loved being able to take my Wizard to PoF and table kite with my buddies for hours knowing relatively few people could zone in and bother us. However, this meant replacing a player that quit was insanely hard because you would have to take the newer player back through all the old zones to prepare for Time raids. Gates of Discord put the nail in the coffin for me when they continued to force back flagging to progress.

[@askulkingfox]

I played EverQuest through Prophecy of Ro and do think that Luclin set the stage for the decline of EverQuest. That's not to say many things added weren't beneficial or even welcome, but it was the end of the "classic" EQ experience and for many players that meant the end of EQ for them. The graphic upgrade certainly felt like the start of EQ's "schism" at the time. Your character's appearance changed whether you liked it or not. I remember logging into a group in Cazic Thule on my ranger and another player saying how weird my character looked. I had no idea what my character looked like with the Luclin models since I couldn't run the new graphics on my low-end machine. I think a lot of people playing EverQuest at the time also weren't "gamers" but people swept up into the magic that was Norrath using whatever computer they had for school, work or personal entertainment. EverQuest 2 should have been SOE's volley at next-gen graphics, not EQ. The geometry that the new system seems to rely on also changed the character of the game from there on out. The overhauls of Commonlands, Freeport, etc years later just feel lifeless and out of place compared to the original world of EQ. The animations were also beyond weird and offputting. I strongly feel the implementation of the Nexus and Bazaar could have preserved more of what made EQ great: it's community. EC should have remained the tradehub and had some version of the bazaar system implemented there. The Spires could have facilitated cross-world travel without dumping players into the Nexus and turning it into the new place to AFK (vs EC). Instead SOE could have made the Nexus into a unique the entry point to Luclin similar to FV, OT, or Iceclad. Thanks for making this video - it gave me a lot to think about!

[@BrianBlock]

I played EQ rabidly up through PoP, with some casual play through later expansion until WoW came out. 1. I can vividly remember the hate for the new models, specifically Ogre and Dwarf models (I played human, dwarf, high/wood elf, erudite, Iksar in those days. Only dwarf was horrible in my character line-up). Iksar was an amazing upgrade, elves were neutral, Erudite was goofy, but an upgrade, and my human monk looked amazing with the new model(Human Monk, wood elf ranger, high elf enchanter, erudite mage, Iksar necromancer). 2. The worst part of Luclin was absolutely the Bazaar. EC tunnels was possibly the best thing about any gaming community, ever, certainly at the time and possibly even now. Selling was 100% easier in Luclin, but that was NOT the point of EC Tunnel. Early EQ was all about community and every aspect of that could be found in EC tunnel. We both sold and gathered there. Sell in the main tunnel by the bend, show off gear out front in the sun, and sit around in parties and chat in the big cave after the bend. My 3 servers even had the same duel spots in Tunnel, it was basically an underground fighting ring where people would cheer and place bets :). 3. I recall most of my guild and friends liking the teleporting convenience, as it really didn't shrink the world THAT much for high level players, unlike PoP, which gutted the established travel methods and really changed it for everyone. Luclin made it much easier for low level players, but high level players already had guildies and alts who could get you almost anywhere, along with Lev, SoW/jboots, and/or Selos' to get around quickly, even back in vanilla. 4. Back then, BST sucked, I hated them. They are really good in later expansions, but the cat model and the class were 'meh' at best. 5. AA - Honestly, this was amazing and only made the game better mechanically, as well as making grinding and playing at max level worthwhile outside of raids, as you said. The haters are the worst type of purist. I am all for P99 purist ideals, but the AA haters seemed to be looking for anything they could complain about. EDIT: 6. I forgot mounts, even back then, I ran everywhere, I forgot to mount at least 90% of the time until my party/guild yelled at me. It became a meme in our guild, best mount, never used it :). I got lucky (and had a server 1st world top 20 guild) and had the Seru mount "early" in the expansion as were world 6 or 7th on that kill, so I can't complain about their speed.

[@nathancantino5669]

i love both luclin expansions. . love the video. looking forward to luclin lore video

[@ChaosSlayerZX]

I have discussed topic of Luclin many times with many people. My overall conclusion - good idea but half baked. 1. Aliens on the Moon : I would not have choose Moon and alien theme as grounds for expansion - I would do another continent or Shadow realm instead, but ok, other than Boglings, everything else was digestible. 2. Graphics - I love MOST of new models, but some others need a lot of work. Like all the short races became indistinguishable from each other. Terrain graphics are awesome. 3. Content - it really feels that one group of people was working on some zones, while another group was working on others zone and in a BIG RUSH. There are HUGE content gaps in between, zones, and some low levels zones are locked between 2 higher level zones which makes it illogical to ever go there. Quests some really good ones here and there, but mostly pointless and hard to find. Temple of SSra and Vex Thal were AWESOME. Some places like Moons Letalis were 100% DEAD. No one ever went there. Entire chunk of zones between Shar Vahl and Kata Castalium was barely visited (other than to go to Acrilya Mines) - there was nothing to do there 4. Mudflation - huge XP bonuses for low low level zones and items that dropped from lev 15-25 mobs, that were previously available from 40+ mobs was lead case of killing all world low end zones. 5.Bazaar vs EC Tunnel. When trying to trade bronze mace for bronze sword EC Tunnel is great. When you trying to sell 500 HQ Bear pelts you want Bazaar. To conclude - good effort, but needed more polish, probably another 3-5 months of work to produce quality product. Definitely NOT the cause of EQ death. That prize belongs to GoD/OoW and World of Warcraft.

[@kurticusmaximus]

I appreciate your fair summary of the problems people had on Luclin. I’m one of those players that appreciate some aspects of Luclin but overall disliked it. My nostalgia may be biased, but I hated how Luclin killed the old world. I grew up with the old world, and I mourned seeing crushbone abandoned, or unrest and mistmoore. Those old world zones were essentially scrapped. I really wish Luclin had shown the old world love. Maybe add some overhauled questing to the old world.

[@finchaser1-nt2wq]

As a current EQ player, i feel when they introduced the mercenaries is what changed the game, the mercs took away from needing a cleric or enchanter etc in a group. Most players i believe either solo with mercs or 2 box or more with mercs which took away the need for people to group.

[@jcmick8430]

Mercs killed it for a lot of ppl but for me it made it possible to play without being dependent on finding a group. Obv I'm not playing a cleric lol

[@finchaser1-nt2wq]

@jcmick8430 Yes you are right, mercs did make it so people who didn't want to find a group could go fight. I just meant mercs changed to social aspect of the game. On some of the new zones, unless you have raid or real good armor, weapons, it's hard to solo some of the mobs with just a merc.so I think some people have to try to find a group which can be hard sometimes because most people now are accustomed to playing with mercs unless you're in a good active guild.

[@jcmick8430]

@finchaser1-nt2wq as a raider I don't mind grouping with scrubs as long as they know how to play their class

[@teemoney9443]

by the time mercs came out, nobody was grouping anymore. They were introduced to keep the game on life support.

[@finchaser1-nt2wq]

@@teemoney9443 that is true

[@christianlamarche1615]

Great video, lots to agree and disagree with. I will admit seeing this has made me want to redownload and play again! As someone who played 18 years (started in 2000) and has multiple accounts still to this day, I would argue easier MMORPGs are what ruined EQ. World of Warcraft came along and provided easier grouping, faster results, easier raids and that’s when majority population went away. Lots loved working for your accomplishments, but sadly others didn’t enjoy the time needed to get there. EQ in its prime will always hold a part in my mind as the best game ever made with bards and monks being my favorite characters out of them all.

[@BH-lu5rz]

They balanced out the time savings from travel with some extreme grind time if you were in a raiding guild. Anyone LFG to go farm that weapon ore in Ssra temple? PoP was my favorite expansion, though not without things to complain about. There were some really lackluster expansions after PoP. To me that was more what killed the game for most people, just looking at success at keeping people in the game. Luclin was for sure the biggest shock to anyone nostalgic, but it was also probably the second best expansion post trilogy. I started playing after Luclin was out and so many friends and family were like oh man you have to try this game.. So I never had that much experience strictly in the original trilogy game. I played for over a decade before I had to just stop. /Played of over 1 year of time, with very little bazaar time on main char. I didn't want to just log in and be a regular player, and being in a high end raiding guild is just not very compatible with life after that long. I still miss the game and compare every other gaming experience to EQ in my mind. Log in once a year to see if my characters are still there and maybe get killed running around recklessly for an hour or so while seeing if anyone I knew is still playing. The worst thing is all those people I talked to daily are just pretty much gone. I tried to meet up with people and make real life friends, but mostly what we had in common was EQ. It was a hell of a ride and no regrets really, but I'm not doing that again. No Wow or anything else like that.

[@SrgtRock]

Travelling was the best. It was quite dangerous... because dying actually meant something... meeting other players, asking direction and joining camps on the way to wherever you went was always a great adventure. Even taking boats you'd meet new people. Luclin mostly changed that part of the adventure, and PoP killed it completely.

[@SannerDM]

Love the video. Would be a million times better with subdued ambiance music from EQ synched with the visual content.

[@LiamsLyceum]

As someone not around for the early days of EQ, pretty fascinating to hear thoughts circa 20+ years ago

[@GO-tq6hs]

Looking back I loved Luclin for its vibe and its areas. I do think that the way the nexus functioned for transportation and the bazaar for trading did start the "beginning of the end" though. For the time when it launched it definitely was awesome and a massive change to the game. I don't think it was until PoP when suddenly every city was easily teleportable to, people start looking back and realizing, "the old way was more fun".

[@Joshthegamer8600]

@@GO-tq6hs PoP was definitely a bigger change than Luclin was.

[@edneragnarok]

Luclin will always be my favorite expansion because it brought the beastlord class which is to this day my favorite class in any game ever. And I spent so much time in the bazaar buying and selling, it was almost a second game in itself. Loved it so much.

[@WoWFenris]

I started Quarm a couple weeks ago, after initially trying p99. My journey of EQ began in 2002 with EverQuest Online Adventures for the ps2, and later the first expansion for it EQOA: Frontiers. The greatest part of EQOA was the Class Mastery system. This seems like it was an improved version of the AA system that Luclin introduced. After spending 500 mastery points (1500 total) You could specialize and choose a Mastery. Necromancers became either Defilers or Lich, I believe all the specializations came from the 50+ class names that were later introduced. You could either specialize by your class/ archetype / race. For example Barbarians could specialize as Berserkers, giving them +4 or +5 offensive modifiers, at the sacrifice of defense I believe. Basically if you were level 60, you attacked as if you were a level 64-65. I played a Barbarian Rogue in EQOA because Barbarians were one of the high risk high reward dps choices. Anyways, I quit p99 because there was no Class Mastery / AA system, and that's what led me to Quarm. Since EQOA was released in 2001, I would presume it was based on the Luclin area, and for some of us that era was the "best" version of EQ imo.

[@Nakari777]

Luclin was awesome ;) I stand by that assertion!

[@johnpavidis8184]

the Addition of AA points made the game. so much fun grinding AA's after the levels. its the main draw for me returning over the years

[@crowsbridge]

As far as the Rallos server goes, it was the beginning of the end. I think Velious was my favorite expansion.

[@bsheets5888]

11:52 i feel the same with kunark in many places

[@j-sin3344]

My RL friend Henry who I worked at an ISP w/ back in 99 thru 02 played EQ. He said that the items and coin should have a box to type the amount you want, back then it was a slidebar and was a pain to get the exact amount. He ALSO came up the Bazaar idea back in Kunark. I remember him saying we should be able to log off and leave our character online w/ gear we want to sell. Heh he was born and raised in Taiwan, so he had a head start on us American borns. Anywho, love it.

[@Devincean]

I do think PoP hurt the game. I wouldn't say Luclin killed it. As a hardcore raider back in PoP and prePoP era I'd say LDON killed it. After LDON release getting players to show up for raids became impossible. The gear was better in LDON and beyond and made the PoP content almost obsolete even tho LDON originally didn't release with raids and the raids once added were very buggy and problematic at best. Along with this came monster summoning it wasn't new that certain monsters summoned people to them. However during LDON and after the Devs took this to a level never seen before with 60%+ of the monsters in dungeons and Omens of War summoning players over pets and not just named mobs but none named also getting to summon. Nearly everything seeing through invisibility making traveling hard through Omens tight zones with no safe paths. Honestly this was when i started to see guilds fracture and die. I stuck it out one more expansion but even i could see the writing on the wall. EQ had passed its prime and focused on difficulty by punishing kiters and people who found ways to spread out and level through old school grinding like in the old days and was focused on instanced dungeons with a emphasis on true tanks since no taunt meant the monster summoned you not your pet.

[@lectorserelith]

Honestly I thought LDON was the best expansion since Kunark at the time. I was getting older and had too many responsibilities to spend 2 hours throwing together a group.

[@BH-lu5rz]

Agree on LDoN. OTM! But but we just started an LDoN! Instances overall were much needed for raids and certain other situations. Guilds competing over spawns in static zones was a novelty for a while, but got really old.

[@ChaosSlayerZX]

@@lectorserelith getting a group as a casual player and not having to run across the world for 45 min to get one. Must keep in mind it was first EVER attempt at 1 group dungeon instance. WoW would later polish this idea to great extent.

[@Thatdude85]

I'm in the same boat. I hated this expansion yet my brother loved it.

[@adventure_lane]

Planes of power was the pinnacle of gaming, period!

[@karlolson1871]

I loved Luclin and its still my favorite expansion. I especially loved the variety of tiers of raiding and the fact that for the first time you weren't just killing gods, dragons or giants.

[@FiindingEmo]

As a druid main, and a casual that never maxed or did many raids, I didn't mind Luclin at all. It was PoP that was where I started falling off, mostly because I couldn't make money porting anymore, before finally quitting after LoY.

[@Aegelis]

Excellent review, thank you. Only change I didn't like was my tall 'young Brad Pit' looking half-elf was changed to look like Squiggy from Laverne & Shirley. Other than this, much happier being able to buy and sell reasonably without having to sort (and create) spam. I have no love for tunnel trade confusion. Map was a HUGE help. Boat travel was usually broken, a dice roll to see if you'd end up at the bottom of the Ocean of Tears if it did seem like boats were working. Beastlord was a tougher magician with less magic focus, so that was nice. I didn't like being excluded for not having top certain AAs, so it widened a divide between 'serious raiders' and all other players. Paludal Caverns were a favourite. Agreed that the models & movement on mounts were awful, but like the speed. After LDON, I didn't see new concepts like this, every expansion thereafter felt like a pointles cash grab for Sony with just new hotzones and endless raiding. Happy with what Project Quarm is doing, will likely be a lifer there because the friends I played the original with are there as well.

[@AlarahCA]

I think the biggest thing I didn't like about Luclin wasn't the look of the new character models, but how they moved. The animations felt so lacking to the classic models.

[@VoiceULove]

I'm going to give a real life example of why the changes are bad. For years, I worked as a Blackjack Dealer at a casino. It was just a job, no different than most jobs that I've had over the years. However, there came a time when I started seeing slot style machines that offered blackjack as a playable game, being dealt by a beautiful woman on a screen. While it was still a semi realistic interaction, it was definitely not the same as interacting with an actual person. Humans are social creatures by nature. Now it seems weird to interpret social interaction while playing an online game where you aren't interacting with real people, but my point is, there is a real person behind the avatars. The introduction of the bazaar was indeed a QoL improvement, but it turned players into NPCs. You may as well be interacting with an NPC and just buy what you need from the game instead of another player. The Nexus was the final nail in the coffin because it did kill the need for wizard and druid ports for the most part. This can also be said for World of Warcraft, after the Cataclysm expansion when players could fly mounts anywhere at any time. They also introduced other QoL mechanics such as the dungeon finder, instead of players having to travel to the dungeon entrance and using Warlocks to summon other party members. Yes, even WoW has a classic era which, much like yourself with EQ, the Blizzard developers were in denial of. In fact, they went as far as to tell the fans at Blizzcon that you may think you want Classic WoW, but you don't. Only to be proven wrong with the official launch of the classic WoW servers. That doesn't mean QoL improvements in games are bad. It just removes a HUGE amount of the flavor and characteristic of what the game was when it first launched.

[@jessemorgan7007]

Original EQ ended when SoV came out. Original EQ and RoK were still mostly group oriented and even at the max level of 60 there were several places you could group like Seb, Chardock, The Hole, PoF and PoH and still get decent items. When SoV came out the game became more raid heavy and less group oriented. NToV and PoG raids took days to complete with only a few people in raid getting rewards. Dont get me wrong SoV was my favorite expac but to me it killed the fun factor of grouping with my friends. SoL seemed empty and again seemed raid heavy but I did like the addition of mounts but the bazaar killed EC which was a place of gathering for all levels. The introduction of vahshir was good but the beast lord class was very lack luster. If they released the original EQ with original rule set along with RoK and VoS but made it modern graphics and interface wise it would be a great game.

[@sgsgtvs]

I liked it when Luclin came out because then guilds like Fires of Heaven moved on to the Luclin content and allowed other guilds to start raiding high-end Velious content. I played a rogue so everyone wanted me in their group for faction grinding. It would usually take me over an hour to find a group, if I found one at all. When Luclin came out I had people coming to me asking me to join their group. Total 180 for a rogue.

[@teemoney9443]

Blades of Wrath was the big guild on my server. They cock blocked all the end game content in Velious and we didnt get to progress until luclin came out. They dominated kunark content as well. They didn't even need most of that gear anymore but they would gear up alts and sell the dropables for insane amounts of plat and probably did RMT too. There were no sharing rules on end game mobs like we have on p99 now. They weren't necessarily better players, they just got to the top first and pulled up the ladder. We eventually caught up to them but it wasn't until close to the end of the PoP era. Instancing, love it or hate it, leveled the playing field.

[@joemac84]

After playing the PoP Agnar server and Velius p99 server, I agree the expansion killed the game bc EQ essentially lost its soul in those expansions. I had to experience both servers to realize that.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I have always loved both Luclin and PoP

[@CoreChamber]

Luclin was my second favorite expansion. I would blame it on LDON, as EQ started trying to be like other MMOs. However, Luclin was when EQ started to build the game for people with less time to play. The graphics and pathing seem to have been the significant issues when people started switching.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I think a lot of people miss how important it was to mold the game towards less play time requirements. Players were starting to age out of high school and could put in the time anymore.

[@nathans1787]

Great video! And very timely with Luclin about to launch on Teek!

[@thatoneguyis]

Going back on my memory - I believe there was controversy with the new models (outside of cpu demand) but I think it was mostly related to certain models like you pointed out - barb, troll, and ogre come to mind as the ones people hated the changes on the most. I wouldn't mind a bazaar in classic and beast master class but the over all design and cats in Luclin turn me off.

[@marzix427]

I liked Luclin, having access to the Nexus and Bazaar was so much better. I started later, literally the day before PoP launched (which I had no idea about). I made an Iksar because the new model looked sweet, compared to other games at the time. Raiding SSRA Temple and VT was fun. My only gripe with Luclin is the amount of hit points the mobs had compared to similar leveled mobs in the old world and when I was behind the curve of max level, I spent a lot of time soloing or in a group of 1 or 2 extra. Luclin mobs were just so much harder, that I never really got to do anything in them. Overall, I liked it. I like the new character models as someone who never played with the old models, the raids were fun and challenging, and the convenience of Bazaar and Nexus were top tier. I was still buying ports and the only place I was getting one was if I ran to a wizard spire and waited for someone to port me around (this was post PoP launch as well)

[@Maximum-Ws]

The Bazaar was definitely my favorite part of luclin. I hated wasting my time trying to buy and sell in the common lands when i could be out killing stuff.

[@jn2400]

The new models looked horrendous to me

[@Noxmare]

Finally, some good effing food regarding the post original trilogy. Understandable that the Original-Kunark-Velious sits the closest to a major of playerbase's hearts but we're talking about a game with more than a quarter of century-long history and content. Disregarding anything past Velious though, yet again, understandable still doesn't give the game enough credit. Personally, I am rather a newcomer to the game having only joined it some 4 years ago on a TLP. Starting from Original era and now with The Broken Mirror on my server the game has captivated me like I thought no other MMO would ever again. So please, keep the good post-Velious stuff coming. As the game went on the lore stayed great and didn't devolve into constant "monster of the week, evil greater than one before", the mechanics became more nuanced and the gameplay more fluid. There is a lot to cover and the game and people behind it deserve it.

[@stupedcraig]

They killed my troll.. I didn't want to play it after they changed his look.. So I stopped.

[@crowsbridge]

agree

[@stevenauldridge2679]

I really really wish they would do an entire engine update and graphic overhaul and redo Eq. Its all there, its just worn. Refurbish this awesome game

[@casrogue]

we need a server from the original to Luclin. The spires did not cut travel at all. Guilds had their own porters and many people still used the druids and wizards to travel during SoL. The bazaar was awesome, it was like thrifting ..you spend lots of time looking and trying to get stuff for professions, Loved the elysian amor on my druid ..awesome gear if you were passed for clerics and shamans as a druid LOL What people did not liked was the cats and how much experience noobie zones had compared to old newbie areas and that drained the old zones.

[@Corpselit-Babyman]

Quarm

[@Corpselit-Babyman]

Project Quarm

[@casrogue]

@Corpselit-Babyman project quarm goes past Luclin. To PoP ..

[@pauljanetzke]

In the end, one of the big things that killed EQ was way too many zones with more being added. It diluted and fractured the player base. I noticed this with Velious when my guild fractured over which faction armor to play for, and instead of teamwork most of the melee went Kael, the rest when with Skyshrine. Then they stopped giving out anniversary rewards, which showed they didn't care too much for long term players.

[@kaijukoopa1248]

I really liked both the troll and ogre models, both old and new but I really locked into my ogre after the model update

[@EasyChairGames]

I never played EQ back in the day, other than a few times on a friends account and such. my first exposure to the game was with live LONG after the big issues had happened and all that. Looking back I don't really see the complaints people have raised for it specifically (other than the new models, I do agree those needed some more work). Things like the Nexus don't seem dissimilar to the boats already in the game just on a shorter timer and without the wait time. I'd argue that the boats are an excellent example of a time sink done well. The ride is long but you are able to leave the boat and there are areas in Ocean of Tears and such that you can do things in. AAs are almost exactly the same system that is used in Final Fantasy 11 with it's Merit Point system. I would argue that AAs are better because from the start you are able to choose a percentage of your XP to allocate to it. FF11 it's just on/off 100% XP when you are max level. It just seems so strange that barely 2 years had gone by and people were already calling the game ruined and dying because of it.

[@Faker13]

The one that caused the biggest exodus was gates of discord hands down. The immense difficulty jump without the extra 5 levels combined with the release of WoW and the creation of instanced raids for 54 people instead of 72 caused a humongous exit of many players. It wasn't long after that before the first of the server merges.

[@KB_13247]

i think the thing with the bazaar is that it feels lifeless. whereas the ec tunnel felt more like a community thing. there was a homey feel to it. SOOOO VASTLY more inconvenient. but you actually make a lot of friends in the ec tunnel just goofing off and chatting. also deal hunting was much much more lucrative with ec tunnel. with the bazaar everyone can always see every price all the time. don't get me wrong i prefer the bazaar too, but i do see why some people miss the ec tunnel. there's a more human connection/feeling to it.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

Ya I do see the appeal of the tunnel. But my time is limited so if I'm going to shave playtime off somewhere I would like it to be on the buying/selling end.

[@tackion5371]

I’m a p99 die hard, not because I don’t like luclin/pop, they have my favorite raids when playing tlps. There is just such a vastly different feel going from velious to luclin

[@kurticusmaximus]

Been playin’ p99 since 2010. No intentions of stopping.

[@justinhephner2117]

i loved SoL, PoP eras, and the lore and raids of that era, I feel the demise really arrived with Mercs in the EoK era, when mercs arrived "grouping" became a thing of the past and the "social" aspect of the game was lost

[@Joshthegamer8600]

Good point, I quit for a few expansions and came back to mercs. I was shocked how much the game had changed. That was well before EoK tho so I think Mercs were earlier than that.

[@justinhephner2117]

@@Joshthegamer8600 yea, i quit after TBS the first time, and mercs still werent there, but my memory is kinda hazy as far as expac releases, after TBS i cant remember the orders lol, but i know that it was one of those between TBS and EoK

[@justinhephner2117]

@@Joshthegamer8600 the botters that 30-box kinda took over then

[@jong2359]

I appreciate how you cover popular opinions that you yourself don't necessarily agree with. Based on your stance on the evolution of Everquest over time, you might enjoy Asheron's Call if you ever want to try a new MMO experience from the EQ era.

[@nektulosnewbie]

Everquest was designed differently from how it later went. Raiding was created as the game went on, and was as much a player developed concept as a developer one (complete heal being used in heal rotations was a player develoed idea, the spell was originally made as a between heal to top people off and not a combat spell, FD pulling was originally seen as a bug by the developers and was punished to begin with as an exploit, something later allowed once they realize it helped give monks a vital group purpose beyond DPS - they originally expected played to split camps with only the lull and mez lines of spells, something we all know woukd have made places like Hate and Fear impossible to break into). Originally EQ was centered around the playing experience, the adventure you did everyday that wasn't just a progression towards an end point. Wiping and recovering your corpse was as much, if not more, of the EQ experience than grinding to get into a raid guild and amass loot. By Luclin, it had shifted to that after Velious established the raid routine Kunark still lacked (Kunarks raid targets were rather poor and almost no one experienced the proto-Velious of Veeshans Peak). What happened was the age of "Your in our world!" of the original game ended and MMO content consumption began, where expansions were picked apart and eaten like before the next serving came to pick apart and eat. It killed off EQs culture and community and made the end state everyone aimed for raid guiding. As such, the details of Luclin largely don't matter save for ones that invalidated large parts of the game, like cities with the bazaar, what mastered was how the game shifted into a style of ganeplay that WoW would later toxically perfect, soulless theme park style, largely asocial gameplay.

[@PabstOban]

As an original EverQuest player my biggest criticisms of Luclin weren’t the character models… it was the model animations. They all felt so stiff and unnatural. The animations of the far less detailed character models were so much better. The other criticism I had of Luclin was that trash mobs in entry level XP zones were almost as good or better than previous expansion raid loot. This made raiding in Velious and Kunark so much less desirable… it crashed markers and made all your hard work seem trivial. The game just grew at a faster pace than the player base and sometimes I feel like I’d rather people be more motivated to make a new character than get one 1200 AA points in the 3-5 zones that were optimal for that. It made all the most memorable zones absolute ghost towns and new players struggled to find people to actually play with. Planes of Power was plagued with “Left behind” syndrome where your guild would try to progress in the expansion and it would be very competitive to kill a god when it was up. When you finally got your shot and succeeded there was always those 3-5 players that missed the kill and the other 45 players would be anxious to go kill new bosses and not farm the same god till the stragglers got their key item to progress. I think instancing would have helped a lot in EverQuest if that was around at the time.

[@rabyla6396]

I never complained about the bazaar but then I played on Rallos Zek so...

[@gumbypokey7]

I don't blame the changes to the game really at all. When this game came out it was a massive communication platform for people to connect and share experiences. Unmatched really in a time when email, AOL, and IRC were the main ways to communicate. But that dwindled over time due to the rise of social media and as you said newer games chasing the magical EQ1 formula. I'm in the didn't like AA camp. I do agree it was nice to be able to keep growing beyond max level but it was insanely grindy. Also, a bit immersion breaking due the entire system just being clicks in a GUI to advance things that previously would have required rare items, spells, etc.

[@matphat]

"Thicc, luscious, weird looking cats". Bwahaahah

[@nl817]

The new UI may have come out during Velious, but you could still use the old UI at that time.

[@ambrosiuscw4478]

I enjoyed the 'Luclin' feeling of zones and kind of miss it in MMOs. Often times these days you get wall to wall mobs, I sort of miss having vast spaces that aren't jam packed. Regarding the graphic updates, I did end up liking it over time, but I always feel it would have been better if the older zones and NPCs had gotten an update too. The visual differences were really jarring.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I agree, Luclin had a great feel to it and the zones really seem to fit the expansion.

[@vanman2099]

I had quit the game so many times, Luclin is one of the first expansions where I started staying. The AA was something that was desperately needed to allow casual players that don't really raid to continue to improve their character while allowing them to continue gaining experience. This helped with so many things, otherwise people would get their items / max level and roll out, so it was hard to find groups. Yeah, AA became a raid requirement which I could see be a limiter to people who casually raid or have limited time to grind out that exp but by Planes of Power using Plane of Fire it got trivialized as you can blast out a ton of AA per hour. The Bazaar was also absolutely necessary, I actually hate playing on classic servers because I always feel like I should sell stuff I acquire but don't want to sit in the EC Tunnel, it makes my eyeballs hurt. I'm surprised the Bazaar hasn't been added to these TLP launches in some fashion. World of Warcraft easily knocked Everquest out by launching with quality-of-life things that EverQuest should have long adopted or pioneered. But they also hurt themselves after Wrath of the Lich King which is funny because eventually, they started copying Everquest and launched their own form of classic servers.

[@0bronk0]

I stopped playing my necro to make a beastlord my main toon when the expansion came out. Also one of my guild mates dropped his mage to do the same. Never looked back. It is IMHO, one of the most involved classes to play.

[@Thebuffshaman]

Asking an altaholic if they really needed more classes, yes, yes I did. I wanted them to finish fleshing out to 5 chain leather and clock classes to match the 5 plate classes.

[@DaveVoyles]

I gave up after Vellious. I came back a few times since, but it was never the same. The later expansions brought many quality of life features while simultaneously removing much of the social interaction which made the game so great.

[@joshuakremer3930]

What i think changed the game was whenever they basically made it two games...subscription and free to play. It was after I stopped playing. Played the game from first all the way to 2010 or so...12 years if I recall.

[@RaymondSkelley]

The new character models were horrible. Not because of the graphics. Because the animations completely changed. Iksar were horrible - look at one swimming on the old model and then look at one swim on the new model - same issue with EQ2 - WoW spent a crapton of time/money whatever it took to make animations perfect - despite 'cartoon' looks most players didn't care for, however the game played and felt right because the animations were top notch. This is a big part of what people mean when they say the game 'felt like it changed' but they can't figure out what - because everyone notices the animations suck but don't understand the reason why.

[@deadnoobie2859]

9:10 You can use the same arguments about the Iksar you like so much. ^^ But no, I dont remember anyone complaining about Vah'shir as a race itself but more wondered why they werent just Kerrans since those had already existed in the game. The beastlord class on the other hand def got more hate, but that was because it was absolutely OP when it first released and had to get nerfed.

[@antondovydaitis2261]

Hello, my name is Anton. I have been clean and sober from EverQuest twenty years, six months, two days.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

Thank you for sharing Anton!

[@Maximum-Ws]

Stay strong my friend.

[@The_Norse_Hunk]

This is just my opinion - no expansion killed it. There were SO . MANY. GAMES coming out because EQ started a landslide of them. Star Wars Galaxies. WoW. Dark Age of Camelot. And probably a few I forgot about. The corpse runs, the difficulty, to many players were a boon. A lot of those following MMO's solved what people hated about EQ back in the day.

[@JohnnyElectronaut]

Cats in SPACE!

[@battleboozex]

Luclin had some issues I feel, but I enjoyed it. It was Plains of Power that killed EQ for me and I quit right before Gates of Discord. In Luclin, the Spires as transport did mess with traveling, but not nearly as bad as PoP. The Bazaar was a mistake, whey they hell they didn't create an actual auction house market I'll never know.

[@OptimusGnarkill]

Yes the bazaar made the game easier and more convenient, but I still far prefer the EC tunnel experience for the person to person interaction. You get to barter with a real person, have a nice conversation, and maybe even make a new friend in the end who can possibly help you in the future. OG EQ drove you to interact with other players and that was the most charming part about the game.

[@dullahangaming5107]

The change for the worse started with Velious when the heart of EQ shifted from a virtual world to a fantasy raiding simulator, but Luclin sealed the deal and made the game look foreign at the same time.

[@ShyNoodleBoi]

I loved luclin and planes of power. I don't know why i quit or when. EverQuest will always be my favorite game. Iksar are amazing i loved the new model ,but loved the swimming animation of the classic model.

[@Thrashershockey16]

PoP was my favorite expansion. What killed the game for me was the time sink the raids became. I truly enjoyed all of the camaraderie of my guild (Twist of Fate / Erollisi Maar) the amount of sarcasm and ball breaking was the best part of the game for me. What killed that was greed eventually. Everyone wanted all the newest shiny gear and would seemingly only push for themselves instead of the greater good like before. With that being said nothing I have played since has given me the warm and fuzzies like EQ did. I really miss that feeling. Some really great friends and memories for sure.

[@Flea_ip]

I absolutely hate the Luclin models. But I don't hate their polygon count or their textures... what I hate most about them are their animations. I think they're AWFUL. They don't move like any living creature moves. They had to have been animated by a blind person. Who moves like that?!? And why do the characters KNEEL when you press the SIT button? They're irredeemable, in my opinion. Not even the new elementals are good in my opinion; I keep those off too.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I definitely prefer the old elemental models!

[@actavisteq1282]

This. The models themselves were fine, animations is what killed it for me along with the abandonment of the Velious style armor textures for just colored armor again. All they had to do was increase the resolution of the current styles and not reinvent the way everyone looked.

[@13anjowizard]

I like both models

[@Flea_ip]

@@13anjowizard Impossible.

[@trollishmc2920]

I think Luclin breathed new life into the game. Just the Nexus and Bazaar alone made it invaluable. Personally, I loved the Vah Shir and the Beastlord class as well. It kept me playing through Planes of Power. I probably would have quit the game sooner if not for Luclin.

[@sodapopinski8064]

One thing luclin did a lot of damage to was pvp. The AAs were clearly only created with pve in mind. The worst, by far, was wizzy manaburn. There were wizards on rz/sz who would log onto their wizards once every 3 hours just to drop a manaburn on someone, since it was a 0HKO. It was unresistable dmg and enough of it to kill essentially anyone if the wiz had even a smidge of gear. AAs were great, and luclin was great, but it kinda sucked playing on pvp servers and having yet another indicator that the devs didn't give a lick about pvp.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I have always avoided pvp servers due to me being terrible at it!

[@bsheets5888]

It killed it for bitter wizards and druids who had to resort to actual farming to make money lol. What killed EQ (for me) was adding a billion stats and boxes to gear.

[@thunderleg6605]

My wife and I first played by rolling up Vah Shir on Luclin itself/test server (shammy and bard). I got fed up with GoD and luckily WoW came out that year.

[@Idiotboxxx]

Luclin killed it for me. I played on Tallon Zek, and Velious fractured the community quite a bit already but Luclin really messed it all up

[@itswakkowarner]

Velious is where the game changed. That is when the game went downhill. It's when it became more about the endgame than the journey. Of course, there were drastic changes during Luclin, but unquestionably Velious is where the magic truly died. I can go into a lot more detail about this. Too many people posting in the comments weren't playing in the early days. Want to know what really killed EQ. This game called World of Warcraft.