Did Luclin kill Everquest?

[@ShaunHall-i7e]

I'm just grateful the game was created in the first place. I was taking care of my mom when she was fighting her cancer and EQ was a world I could escape to. I met some wonderful people too! Wonderful commentary!

[@rynejones8513]

also Luclin is the beginning of EQ. if you think Original - Kunark - Velious is fun then you are braindead. that shit is the most boring content ever and the only people that like it are 50 year old boomers. thank god we don't have to play that any longer.

[@Jeremy-83]

Can we all just agree that Griegs End definitely needed more doors? There was definitely not enough doors...

[@KILRtv]

Lol! My wife and I were recently there for the first time after coming back to the game after 15 years. There's an armor quest in Scarlet Desert, and you have to go all the way through Grieg's End just to get there. Now the armor quest is pointless, because we're able to start the next one that was higher.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

So many doors!!!!

[@KILRtv]

@@Joshthegamer8600 , thankfully. They designed it in mind for groups. You can safely pull into those hallways or rest.

[@Jeremy-83]

@KILRtv I completely agree but they couldn't have added at least 2 more doors? I mean, come on...

[@EQ_EnchantX]

One of my fav zones. A friend (65 cleric), Me (65 Nec) and (65 full time gear pally from Legacy of Steel) could take on Grieg as long as we got a slower. The necro mana tap kept the cleric full, the full time gear pally could tank him without heals almost. Was a 40 min fight, but the loot was sooooo good.

[@Techies06]

Luclin removed the handmade look and feel and also killed social/community in several ways. Most of the item graphics were unique; no other item in the game had the same graphic, with few exceptions. You no longer knew a player's equipment after a quick glance. That took away conversation opportunities which also helped kill the community. The instant teleportation, again killed another social aspect. The bazaar, killed the social interaction of trading and bartering. The developers seemed to be ignorant that it was a social game and with each new update they further killed social aspects which led to more and more solo style of play and less grouping and that is ultimately what killed EQ.

[@AndrewS-fe8ng]

Same thing they did to WoW, Asheron's Call, DAOC, etc.

[@BonsaiBurner]

The misdirection of eq 3 killed eq IMHO.

[@Techies06]

@BonsaiBurner that is an interesting view. I can't relate because I had already stopped playing EQ before EQ3 news but I was excited about it. I was compiling EQ-emu 3.0.x to work with the original client at the time, what a mess that turned out to be.

[@HeaveeRyan]

I remember in 01 when I first played my grandmother had a binder with a picture map of each zone in the binder and we would open it up to find places before they implemented a map.

[@HeaveeRyan]

I still remember even when PoP came out people were chilling by MB and asking for buffs and ports still. Yeah it killed some of the social but the social was still there. You still had to group. Mercenaries killed the grouping aspect of the game. I love them but hate them at the same time.

[@pauljanetzke]

In the end, one of the big things that killed EQ was way too many zones with more being added. It diluted and fractured the player base. I noticed this with Velious when my guild fractured over which faction armor to play for, and instead of teamwork most of the melee went Kael, the rest when with Skyshrine. Then they stopped giving out anniversary rewards, which showed they didn't care too much for long term players.

[@Greg31558]

I'm in the "not a big Luclin fan" boat. I think by biggest gripe isn't so much that any of the features that you mentioned are "bad," but they feel less like an evolution of EQ as it was and more like a clean break. I think this is best seen in the graphics. As you pointed out, some races looked radically different, particularly Trolls and Ogres. I think they should have tried to maintain closer to the proportions and style of the old models while upping the polygon count. I get that some shifting would have been necessary to make the proportions not look weird with more polygons, and some came out better than others, but there was no reason to make ogres and trolls or even barbarians bulky masses of muscles when their previous models were fat (or thin for Barbarians). Another example is the bazaar. I think it was objectively better for selling, but there were other consequences to that. The tunnel (or strangely on my server, Saryn, North Freeport) was this central hub where you could also socialize, recruit for or be recruited into a guild, or otherwise engage with the community. Selling became easier, but that hub as it was was lost. My only critique with the style of the zones in Luclin was that they, like the new models, just felt like a different game compared to what came before. The nexus kind of has a similar issue to the bazaar. It's an objectively better way to travel, but difficulty traveling was a defining trait of EQ. When I started my Barbarian Shaman and wanted to join my friends playing Wood Elves, EQ became a game about sneaking through dangerous territory, and I felt as much accomplishment just getting to my new starting zone as I did actually leveling. That, for better or worse, was lost. AAs I could take or leave. EQ is a grindy game, and AAs were just a different grind. I don't know if giving AA-like abilities as you level up more or having them as a separate system was better or worse. Again, I could take it or leave it. I also think I disagree with the conclusion that EQ needed the changes to survive, at least to an extent. Did EQ need to evolve? Maybe. But I think the changes, as I said before, were in a lot of ways the wrong ones and, as I opened with, constituted more of a break with the past than an evolution or advancement of it. That's the opinion of this random guy on the internet anyway :)

[@Gravy65]

I don't have much to say about Luclin, cause that came out when I was leaving the game the first time (I came back 2-3 times, and by those times, it was a different game) but I just wanted to say, I was on Mith Marr, and we also used N. Freeport for our trade center. I remember going to another server to play with a friend, and being completely confused that they sell in the tunnels, was confusing that they made everyone not be near a bank.

[@HectorYague]

I do agree that Luclin was the breaking point where classic EQ deviated from its original formula. The game introduced convenience but sacrificed "depth": the Nexus made the world feel smaller, the Bazaar killed bartering and the market feeling of the economy, etc. I understand why they did it, but some of the game's soul was lost along then way.

[@novanogo07]

If i remember correctly the bazaar wasn't even ready at Luclin launch.

[@JoshuaRoberts_V]

bullshit, luclin was amazing

[@JoshuaRoberts_V]

i'm not going to pretend selling shit in the ecomm tunnel wasnt amazing, but it also was a massive inconvenience that required switching to a banker alt sitting in the desert nowhere near a bank - the grouping and raid systems are the core of EQ dynamics and were preserved quite well. Luclin was a QoL push and was long overdue. If you were doing endgame raid content at the high end it was all a very welcome turn of events.

[@HectorYague]

@@JoshuaRoberts_V well, Vex Thall was probably the most boring content raid content of any expansion :(

[@_i_6946]

ironically the bazaar normalized item prices by removing bartering and that allowed for a true marketplace where value was determined using multiple data points and not a conversation between 2 players with biases. That is called an economy.

[@Singleballtheory]

Luclin marked a heavy shift away from the "journey" being a core aspect of the game. Which is understandable to a degree, but the way they did that was to expedite levelling at every opportunity. Power creep from Velious itemization had already made most old-world and early level Kunark zones obsolete. Luclin then offered a levelling path which extended well into a player's 40s without ever having to sacrifice huge ZAM bonuses. On top of that, all races/classes/tradeskills could be managed within the centralized location of Shadow Haven so there was very little need to stray once you got there. I've always contended that the reason so many of the Luclin zones are bereft of notable mobs and intreguing points of interest is because they knew it just wouldn't matter that much. That the players weren't going to be within those level ranges long enough anyway so why bother. And for the most part they were right.

[@SrgtRock]

Travelling was the best. It was quite dangerous... because dying actually meant something... meeting other players, asking direction and joining camps on the way to wherever you went was always a great adventure. Even taking boats you'd meet new people. Luclin mostly changed that part of the adventure, and PoP killed it completely.

[@Dosbomber]

The early days of EQ were magical. I still remember my first all-evening adventure of a VERY long run between Qeynos, through the Karanas, up a ridiculously long mountain-edge pass, and into a terrifying place called High Pass Hold where I'd heard about a fortress where my level 17 enchanter could find better experience than those silly wisps on Erud's Crossing. Took me all evening, and it still raises hairs thinking about it.

[@dullahangaming5107]

The change for the worse started with Velious when the heart of EQ shifted from a virtual world to a fantasy raiding simulator, but Luclin sealed the deal and made the game look foreign at the same time.

[@hanedorm]

Oh man, Velious was amazing. The whole Thurg/Kael/Skyshrine interconnectivity & armor quests & ToV and...man, it was just such a damn good expansion. ...and that first getting on the raft and going to Iceclad. Never will forget that. I'm hesitant to say if Kunark or Velious was my favorite, but man....it's damn close.

[@thepixalking6589]

"How Bazaar, How Bazaar" 6:51 OMG, am I the ONLY guy that gets that reference???? That's greatness. Thanks for that and not spoiling it!!!! It just triggered so many memories for my age!!!!

[@Flea_ip]

You most certainly are not the only person to get that reference, lol. We're all that old. 🤣

[@thepixalking6589]

@@Flea_ip Good to know my friend!!!!

[@jamiekuchma]

No, we remember but we're trying to forget

[@ShaunJiggy]

I miss that segment. My ex wife and I still say it to this day

[@teemoney9443]

i used to hear that in my head in the bazaar every time I looked around

[@jayr7613]

Old EQ was fantastic, old being the big 3. But in Luclin the game started to respect the players time more, something that needed to happen actually. The old game certainly has it's charm but it did make it very difficult to accomplish much even if you had a 2 hour block to play.

[@fungooloo12]

The number of corpse runs I did is staggering, not to mention the Rez's. As a cleric I was in demand and I always wanted to help people. I have fond memories of EQ from 1999-2001 when I chucked it in. Luclin was the end for me, didn't like it much although some of the QoL changes were needed.

[@CodeguruX]

Yeah, they respected the time it took for you to go out and buy a new computer. If you don't like 3 day long PoSky raids, go back to Mexico.

[@teemoney9443]

@@jayr7613 Dude, did you grind out vex thal keys for your guild? I do understand your point but I didn't feel much respect for my time after the 500,000 snake men we probably killed. The Emperor horse WAS a sweet sweet reward though.

[@jayr7613]

@teemoney9443 i respect your hustle! But did you just try to counter what I said by giving an example of you WILLINGLY sacrificing hours on end to do things outside of your own benefit.....you did. You can't counter someone saying the game respected your time more by saying "no it didn't! When I ground keys for MULTIPLE people I spent hours upon hours doing that" Well that example is literally moot because the WHOLE point was that the GAME did things to respect the players time. If a player still spends countless hours doing tasks, that's on the player, you sir. It doesn't change the fact at all that the game had made changes to respect people's time. I spent countless hours on many things in game as well but none of that is relevant to the fact that they began efforts to have the game itself teleport players around and a bazaar was upgraded so you could afk sell, making items more available, which means you no longer had to sit there and spend your time OOCing. Saying I spent countless hours doing this so the game didn't respect my time anymore when thats a literal choice and the game DID in fact do many things to respect our time.....cmon bud. Think how silly that sounds to say. No matter what our in game experiences were.

[@DaveVoyles]

I gave up after Vellious. I came back a few times since, but it was never the same. The later expansions brought many quality of life features while simultaneously removing much of the social interaction which made the game so great.

[@eightof10]

I started just before Luclin released and the game was an absolute grind, but I loved it. I was in college, all of my roommates played and EQ is among my best memories of that time. For me, PoP was peak EQ. Yes, some people hated the the teleport system, and I personally hated the flagging system, but I understand why it was there. I'll agree with some of the others that LDoN was the downward spiral; it was for me.

[@seanmcginnis7564]

Agree PoP expansion was the pinnacle. LDoN was like what??

[@Dosbomber]

I didn't mind LDoN, it gave my mage some zones, thankfully instanced, where some of his special class talents could finally be used for the first time. Zones full of elemental monsters, where I had entire chapters of my spellbook full of spells I'd never used, PLUS I could even charm or mez mobs?? Plus the gemstone mods that could open up convenience functions like Ultravision and See Invis... very nice, as a human character.

[@Morraak]

Beastlord was THE class for me. I was originally an iksar warrior because I liked to melee but always liked the idea of the of having a pet like mage or necro, but also like shamans for their debuffs, and monks for their hand to hand combat (and cool custom iksar monk attack animations). It's the perfect class for me.

[@danielmacgibbon1589]

Luclin development was a SNAFU of epic proportions that dwarfed the typical development hells of previous expansions as well as other projects at SOE. Still, as challenging as it was, there were some top-notch collaborative efforts that made it work. And, on top of that, it was intended to be EQ’s swan song - Giving way to the next gen successor Everquest 2… which, at the time was bloated: missing deadlines, way passed scheduled release date(s), and over budget due to over-inflated egos, paychecks, and promises & poor management that cost many developers on that project, that were worth their grain in salt, dearly. To many of us, for various reasons, it was a relief that Luclin was relatively well-received. It was a hard-earned win. Not what we wanted, but as long as the fans were more than somewhat satisfied. Once we got word that EQ expansions had to cover for the shortcomings of EQ2, we sat down and used the fiasco of Luclin development to our advantage on PoP, and again on LoY & LDoN… in the Art Department at least, by finally utilizing our massive art asset libraries to our advantage to streamline development of characters to trim development time, and retain some consistency - which was tough to do for several reasons I won’t go into here, but internally, we were more than well aware of, and conceded to that criticism from players.

[@DRCEQ]

You were one of the developers for that expansion? That's cool. Have you ever tried to contact Fading on The Everquest Show? I bet he'd be more than happy to interview you about your experiences. :)

[@danielmacgibbon1589]

@@DRCEQ LOL - Yes, only for those four expansions; LDoN, PoP, LoY, and LDoN. Senior Artist, Art Lead,then Character Art Director, respectively. My take isn’t as cream-filled as the devs Fading typically interviews, so I doubt he’d take the risk. Still; Ultimately, I’m glad I got to work with some talented people, glad it created the community it did, glad that the end product was a source for positive memories, and I’m glad to have been a part of it.

[@DRCEQ]

@@danielmacgibbon1589 Still, Fading runs the EverQuest Show for the love of the game. I know he'd be able to find something fun with your experience. Personally, those four expansions where right when the art team really started to take off with the monster designs and animations. I loved them! :)

[@danielmacgibbon1589]

@@DRCEQ if he’s brave enough to consider it, I might too LOL! Thanks for the positive energy on those expansions - it’s great to hear (mostly) good feedback about them :D

[@Rakkitt]

@@DRCEQi definitely agree about the art and monster designs.

[@Maximum-Ws]

The Bazaar was definitely my favorite part of luclin. I hated wasting my time trying to buy and sell in the common lands when i could be out killing stuff.

[@Dosbomber]

Yeah, in the 6-7 years I played, the only time I ever really looted was when I was solo. Almost all of the money I ever had in the game was thanks to soloing in Velk's Labyrinth, then handing the named drops and Vellium ore bricks/blocks to my cat vendor to sell to crafters while I slept or worked. Bought me quite a few horses!

[@Jedwardk]

Luclin holds a special place in my heart. I began playing in May 2000, and when this expansion was released, it was like stepping into a vast, mysterious world waiting to be explored-truly an explorer's dream. The environment was imaginative and expansive, though it was a shame they didn’t delve deeper into Luclin’s lore until much later. The expansion that ultimately ended my enthusiasm was LDON, which I barely touched.

[@Faker13]

The one that caused the biggest exodus was gates of discord hands down. The immense difficulty jump without the extra 5 levels combined with the release of WoW and the creation of instanced raids for 54 people instead of 72 caused a humongous exit of many players. It wasn't long after that before the first of the server merges.

[@MrTexasChief]

As someone that played from Beta and for 11 years, I would not say that Luclin is what killed EQ, but Luclin set the table for what killed it for me. A tough game that forced you to EARN levels and rewards with a distinctive complimentary class system forcing players to group to accomplish in game goals is the pinnacle of original EQ. -- I started out as a bard, twisting a 4 song MANUAL twist for hours and hours every session. Swapping songs in and out, being the jack of all trades and master of none. A Bard was always welcome in a group because they could 'good enough' fill roles for multiple other classes. Luclin was the beginning of the end of EQ. AA points and horses were the biggest 2 things that would lead to class creep. It was not a huge issue at the time Luclin came out, but it was the introduction to the concepts that would be expanded on for every expansion after Luclin. Simple AA's like HP increases and stat increases led the way for AA's that would allow any class to purchase another classes' defining abilities. Later expansions would just let you flat out 'rent a class' with the mercenary system. AA's and future re-tuned abilities and spells would completely muddle the classes to the point that players didn't need each other to group and accomplish goals. Many many players with max AA's and raid gear just didn't need to group anymore. A monk's pulling ability was surpassed by bards and eventually even rangers or beastlords. A bards class defining jack of all trades became something multiple classes could do. SK's and Pallys could out aggro warriors. Warriors could snare. Druids could join the heal cycle on raids. Mage pets could out tank some tanks while the mages could keep up with wizards on DPS. Groups began to favor the BL to the Shaman because of the overhaste and Paragon, while bards (who were the only class with overhaste at one time) lost that ability to rangers, shaman, enchanters, and beastlords. The biggest spit in the face to class defining abilities was the stupid in game card game where everyone could toss a few bucks an run as fast as a bard on one of the 500 different mounts that got introduced. Each successive expansion muddied the waters of class definition by offering more and more exotic AA abilities. By the time I left EQ most experienced players I knew (including myself) were using off-raid time to multi-box and PL accounts and back-key those accounts. Because the power creep was so massive by that point, a decently raid geared and max AA'ed player could take 3 or 4 accounts and a couple merc's and form their own group of 6 and demolish end game raid zones from previous era's (like Luclin itself) and collect up the rare loot and clicky items for their alts. (Hell, I had AoE food and water sticks on at least 10 toons from Luclin). There was nothing to do outside of raids. There was no reason to search for a warrior or a cleric or an enchanter to start a group because you could tank with a Ranger-bot, heal with merc or another bot and just keep all the EXP and loot for yourself. -- The game died for me when any class could basically do any job in some way or another, and if they could not...a merc was good enough AND you didnt have waste time LFG. EQ became a soloing game where you only got together with others to do raids. -- Luclin wasn't the cause of that, but Luclin is where that pathway began.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

Very well put, thanks for adding your perspective.

[@itswakkowarner]

There were several classes in the original game that could solo and be self-sufficient. Velious is when the game lost steam and went in the wrong direction by making raiding/endgame too much of the focus. Velious is when the game became too elitist.

[@glr]

​@@itswakkowarnerBoth OP and you are right on separate fronts. I wholeheartedly agree that elitism is a massive part of what killed the game, mid-Velious. I didn't enjoy what I was seeing with guilds (despite not being affected personally), and saw no solution but to quit.

[@teemoney9443]

It was probably about that time when developers seemed to only care about elite guilds and end game content. GMs wouldn't give the time of day to a casual but an officer from an end game guild had a personal concierge fixing spawns and punishing rival guilds in raid mob disputes. Legends server drew a lot of attention to that fact as well. I think many players resented it.

[@KekoaSkills]

Man that first week in 1999 was something. This is a well done video; good job presenting the facts and your opinions vs the player collective.

[@VoiceULove]

I'm going to give a real life example of why the changes are bad. For years, I worked as a Blackjack Dealer at a casino. It was just a job, no different than most jobs that I've had over the years. However, there came a time when I started seeing slot style machines that offered blackjack as a playable game, being dealt by a beautiful woman on a screen. While it was still a semi realistic interaction, it was definitely not the same as interacting with an actual person. Humans are social creatures by nature. Now it seems weird to interpret social interaction while playing an online game where you aren't interacting with real people, but my point is, there is a real person behind the avatars. The introduction of the bazaar was indeed a QoL improvement, but it turned players into NPCs. You may as well be interacting with an NPC and just buy what you need from the game instead of another player. The Nexus was the final nail in the coffin because it did kill the need for wizard and druid ports for the most part. This can also be said for World of Warcraft, after the Cataclysm expansion when players could fly mounts anywhere at any time. They also introduced other QoL mechanics such as the dungeon finder, instead of players having to travel to the dungeon entrance and using Warlocks to summon other party members. Yes, even WoW has a classic era which, much like yourself with EQ, the Blizzard developers were in denial of. In fact, they went as far as to tell the fans at Blizzcon that you may think you want Classic WoW, but you don't. Only to be proven wrong with the official launch of the classic WoW servers. That doesn't mean QoL improvements in games are bad. It just removes a HUGE amount of the flavor and characteristic of what the game was when it first launched.

[@alfonsan]

Man, the worst thing about Luclin was the keying for the ssra and VT. It was a useless loooooong grind that kills your soul in the process. Yes, you feel great when you get the key, but then you quit the game 10 days later because of the burn it was. The bazaar also didnt had that layout, and it had TERRIBLE lag and lots of bugs.

[@kohl1999]

Some people never even saw those zones during Luclin because of competition from other guilds. After playing WoW and realizing how awesome it was to never fight over camps and raids, it almost made me angry that I put up with that stupid design in Everquest for all those years.

[@Orxbane]

Alternate Advancement is one of my favorite MMO ideas that no one else takes advantage of. Maybe I'm biased as a Ranger main, but it made playing Ranger even more fun and you always had something else to work towards. I also thought the fast travel systems should have been gated by levels in some way. Traveling the dangerous world as a low level was part of the adventure, but at max level, being able to quickly hop around the world to meet up with friends/guildmembers made being helpful, being helped much easier and hence, more common. Need help with that epic encounter or a specific item drop camp, sure, I'll head right over. Scouting for raid targets, etc. At low levels you tended to head to a specific area to grind out a level range and stayed there for a while. I still remember my friend and I seriously discussing whether we wanted to make the trip to Kunark and be 'trapped' there to some extent or stay in original Norrath (we started playing around Velious era).

[@jeremym1365]

EQ was great for it's time. But I think we look back at these games through the eyes of our youth. Yes, it was a blast back then when as a late teen early twenty gamer, I had days to spend to gain a single level grinding the same camps over and over to level up. But as an older gamer, I would never have that amount of time today, or even close to it. Game companies knew to get a larger market, especially aging gamers going into middle life, they needed more casual play style. I was one of those that rebelled and pushed against it for as long as I could. Going to forums and complaining it was destroying the immersion and making it too easy. But WOW, as much as I hated it at first, proved that casual made more money than long slow grinds, with corp runs, and no fast travel. I was so excited for EQ2 to be there on launch day, until I played it and had the instanced zones that made the world feel small. I missed EQ with it's open world, but I didnt miss waiting in line for a turn to kill quest mobs. Or even worse, spending an hour to run out to farm a certain item, to find it over camped. For EQ, I also remember setting my alarm clock to wake up at super odd hours, just to farm when the least number of players were on. Yes, I met some great players at those hours, and we had the run of the place most days, but it was not ideal for my daily routine in real life.

[@kurticusmaximus]

I appreciate your fair summary of the problems people had on Luclin. I’m one of those players that appreciate some aspects of Luclin but overall disliked it. My nostalgia may be biased, but I hated how Luclin killed the old world. I grew up with the old world, and I mourned seeing crushbone abandoned, or unrest and mistmoore. Those old world zones were essentially scrapped. I really wish Luclin had shown the old world love. Maybe add some overhauled questing to the old world.

[@remmickwadsworth1179]

I didn't go too far into EQ despite always fantasizing as a kid playing it once I got a PC and job. I played LIVE EQ and initially hated it cause the leveling guides I was following had me going into "modernized" new zones to grind with horrendous mobs and xp rates. I decided to explore the older zones like Kunark and Velious and had some of the most memorable and enjoying experiences playing an mmo. I say that as someone who's first mmo was WOW. Of all the expansion contents I explored on my lv 70 Beastlord, I really loved the vibe of the Luclin areas the most over all the other pre-Planes of Power zones. I appreciate the classic high fantasy of the previous expansions, but really clicked with the more weird and unique vibe of Luclin. I'm a big Morrowind fanboy, so of course I loved the weirder departed with the grimling forest and the Sonic wolves, Grimlings, owlbears, weird trees and mantis centaur thingies. When I first logged into EQ, I was upset to see the new updated models from what I saw in old videos/online sources way back. Playing project 1999, yeah, definitely prefer the older charming blocky models. The new models look so strange and off-putting. Everytime someone brings up how important updating graphics are too mmos, I can't help but look back at EQ. Nowadays I mostly play Anarchy Online and I'm thankful they haven't gotten such a graphic update. I always pondered about returning to EQ. If I did, I'd like to start a character in one of the Luclin Time-Locked servers that I assume they still have.

[@GO-tq6hs]

Looking back I loved Luclin for its vibe and its areas. I do think that the way the nexus functioned for transportation and the bazaar for trading did start the "beginning of the end" though. For the time when it launched it definitely was awesome and a massive change to the game. I don't think it was until PoP when suddenly every city was easily teleportable to, people start looking back and realizing, "the old way was more fun".

[@Joshthegamer8600]

@@GO-tq6hs PoP was definitely a bigger change than Luclin was.

[@MastiffDane1]

Luclin was the last expansion I played. I was a die hard player from the original game, my buddies and me spent basically all of our free time in highschool playing. However Luclin never sat well with me, i still had fun but i didnt care for the graphic change at all and I hated the nexus and the new way of trading/selling. I missed the social aspect of the EC tunnel and just chilling and tossing out buffs to low levels. Also around that time I graduated and joined the military. The last time i logged on was at Pensacola NAS at an awesome place called Portside around the time PoP launched. I rented a computer to use for a couple hours that had every game at the time on it, logged in to EQ to see if any of my old buddies from back home were on, and immediately just felt like i was over the game and logged out about 15 minutes later never to play again.... Until I started on P99 about 15 years later haha.

[@Seanidor]

You didn't play a shadow knight named Kalleel did you? I used to group up with a halfling rogue named Sukkin Oliver, his wife lanlielea, and an SK named Kalleel but he ended up going into the military. It's amazing how good this game was at connecting people.

[@zzz2474]

Luclin is my favorite expansion. I also really enjoyed the beastlord class back in the day.

[@Aegelis]

Excellent review, thank you. Only change I didn't like was my tall 'young Brad Pit' looking half-elf was changed to look like Squiggy from Laverne & Shirley. Other than this, much happier being able to buy and sell reasonably without having to sort (and create) spam. I have no love for tunnel trade confusion. Map was a HUGE help. Boat travel was usually broken, a dice roll to see if you'd end up at the bottom of the Ocean of Tears if it did seem like boats were working. Beastlord was a tougher magician with less magic focus, so that was nice. I didn't like being excluded for not having top certain AAs, so it widened a divide between 'serious raiders' and all other players. Paludal Caverns were a favourite. Agreed that the models & movement on mounts were awful, but like the speed. After LDON, I didn't see new concepts like this, every expansion thereafter felt like a pointles cash grab for Sony with just new hotzones and endless raiding. Happy with what Project Quarm is doing, will likely be a lifer there because the friends I played the original with are there as well.

[@Merknilash]

Original EQ had a really great high fantasy vibe They eroded it with Kunark - but the Kunark setting was so cool we didn’t notice And further still Velious pulled away from the high fantasy of pixies and goblins and vampires and orcs - but it was awesome so we didn’t mind But Luclin was a bridge too far It was weird - not in a good way Most of the zones were empty and meaningless without charm or reason to be there The mobs hit hard and gave crap xp so with a few exceptions most of luclin went completely untouched

[@jcmick8430]

Quick name that zone between marus seru and the grey that you've NEVER camped a single thing in ever

[@Sarcasmses]

I definitely don't agree with that characterization of Kunark or Velious, especially Velious. Giants are staples of high fantasy, and dragons are THE icon of high fantasy, and that expansion was all giants and dragons, and dwarfs too. But Luclin definitely went away from high fantasy into weird science fiction. Now we're fighting moon people and alien babies and grim reapers and red trog people and Ridley Scott aliens that live in caves. Dumb. It's also the first expansion that has no real story line at all, there's close to zero explanation for the Akheva or what they are about even though they are the end game enemy. And half the zones are caves full of bugs.

[@Warui88]

@@jcmick8430 Wasn't it like Mons Letalis or something like that? But yeah, that zone was ALWAYS empty.... honestly everything but Dawnshroud and Paludal was empty when I played in 2004.

[@jcmick8430]

@@Warui88 thats the place! they didnt even finish that zone they meant to add quests in there, i ran through once and there's a big tower and names and everything that they never did anything with

[@sgsgtvs]

I liked it when Luclin came out because then guilds like Fires of Heaven moved on to the Luclin content and allowed other guilds to start raiding high-end Velious content. I played a rogue so everyone wanted me in their group for faction grinding. It would usually take me over an hour to find a group, if I found one at all. When Luclin came out I had people coming to me asking me to join their group. Total 180 for a rogue.

[@teemoney9443]

Blades of Wrath was the big guild on my server. They cock blocked all the end game content in Velious and we didnt get to progress until luclin came out. They dominated kunark content as well. They didn't even need most of that gear anymore but they would gear up alts and sell the dropables for insane amounts of plat and probably did RMT too. There were no sharing rules on end game mobs like we have on p99 now. They weren't necessarily better players, they just got to the top first and pulled up the ladder. We eventually caught up to them but it wasn't until close to the end of the PoP era. Instancing, love it or hate it, leveled the playing field.

[@DRCEQ]

Rallos Zek had to make Greater Faydark the game's economic center because it was safer from player-killers. The Commonlands Tunnel was prime ganking territory. As for the Vah Shir and Beastlords, I thought they were a fine addition. The nice new race with deep lore surrounding the Heretic War of Odus.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I have always avoided pvp servers due to me being terrible at it!

[@mehra6712]

I was on rallos zek back in the day too :] It was sad when the pvp servers had to merge due to decreasing player count. I think that's around when I stopped playing because it seemed like there were a lot of hackers from the incoming server

[@nektulosnewbie]

​@@Joshthegamer8600I was terrible at PvP but still loved it. The culture was unique and felt very Wild West. "A polite society is an armed society", you tread carefully to maintain your reputation more because others could kill you.

[@crowsbridge]

@@mehra6712 our PK guild basically broke in half because one side wanted to use some cheat program

[@o0oGaryo0o]

Faydark was also the hub on VZ. Travel hubs weren't always safe on VZ. I played an elf and if there was darkies waiting for a ride on the other side you were done. You always went invis. It wasn't just darkies but any race, my brother was human and plenty of times we would port in and an elven group would kill him upon entry no matter my pleas. Good times 👍

[@Devincean]

I do think PoP hurt the game. I wouldn't say Luclin killed it. As a hardcore raider back in PoP and prePoP era I'd say LDON killed it. After LDON release getting players to show up for raids became impossible. The gear was better in LDON and beyond and made the PoP content almost obsolete even tho LDON originally didn't release with raids and the raids once added were very buggy and problematic at best. Along with this came monster summoning it wasn't new that certain monsters summoned people to them. However during LDON and after the Devs took this to a level never seen before with 60%+ of the monsters in dungeons and Omens of War summoning players over pets and not just named mobs but none named also getting to summon. Nearly everything seeing through invisibility making traveling hard through Omens tight zones with no safe paths. Honestly this was when i started to see guilds fracture and die. I stuck it out one more expansion but even i could see the writing on the wall. EQ had passed its prime and focused on difficulty by punishing kiters and people who found ways to spread out and level through old school grinding like in the old days and was focused on instanced dungeons with a emphasis on true tanks since no taunt meant the monster summoned you not your pet.

[@lectorserelith]

Honestly I thought LDON was the best expansion since Kunark at the time. I was getting older and had too many responsibilities to spend 2 hours throwing together a group.

[@BH-lu5rz]

Agree on LDoN. OTM! But but we just started an LDoN! Instances overall were much needed for raids and certain other situations. Guilds competing over spawns in static zones was a novelty for a while, but got really old.

[@ChaosSlayerZX]

@@lectorserelith getting a group as a casual player and not having to run across the world for 45 min to get one. Must keep in mind it was first EVER attempt at 1 group dungeon instance. WoW would later polish this idea to great extent.

[@Thatdude85]

I'm in the same boat. I hated this expansion yet my brother loved it.

[@adventure_lane]

Planes of power was the pinnacle of gaming, period!

[@justinallegood232]

Luclin was great and PoP was the best expansion in any MMO before or after. The real killer was the lack of catch up mechanics. Starting in Luclin you had zones that had complex keying and flagging mechanics. I loved being able to take my Wizard to PoF and table kite with my buddies for hours knowing relatively few people could zone in and bother us. However, this meant replacing a player that quit was insanely hard because you would have to take the newer player back through all the old zones to prepare for Time raids. Gates of Discord put the nail in the coffin for me when they continued to force back flagging to progress.

[@Andrew-it7fb]

My guild was really good about doing progression to get people caught up so it was great. We usually had quite a few people who could log into zones like that.

[@newatlantisrepublic6844]

Ohhh yeah I definitely remember staring at the wall during a big pull just so my cleric could function properly 😅😅

[@karlolson1871]

I loved Luclin and its still my favorite expansion. I especially loved the variety of tiers of raiding and the fact that for the first time you weren't just killing gods, dragons or giants.

[@WoWFenris]

I started Quarm a couple weeks ago, after initially trying p99. My journey of EQ began in 2002 with EverQuest Online Adventures for the ps2, and later the first expansion for it EQOA: Frontiers. The greatest part of EQOA was the Class Mastery system. This seems like it was an improved version of the AA system that Luclin introduced. After spending 500 mastery points (1500 total) You could specialize and choose a Mastery. Necromancers became either Defilers or Lich, I believe all the specializations came from the 50+ class names that were later introduced. You could either specialize by your class/ archetype / race. For example Barbarians could specialize as Berserkers, giving them +4 or +5 offensive modifiers, at the sacrifice of defense I believe. Basically if you were level 60, you attacked as if you were a level 64-65. I played a Barbarian Rogue in EQOA because Barbarians were one of the high risk high reward dps choices. Anyways, I quit p99 because there was no Class Mastery / AA system, and that's what led me to Quarm. Since EQOA was released in 2001, I would presume it was based on the Luclin area, and for some of us that era was the "best" version of EQ imo.

[@stevenauldridge2679]

I really really wish they would do an entire engine update and graphic overhaul and redo Eq. Its all there, its just worn. Refurbish this awesome game

[@erikhendrickson59]

Let's be real: most Luclin models were DOO DOO

[@CoreChamber]

Luclin was my second favorite expansion. I would blame it on LDON, as EQ started trying to be like other MMOs. However, Luclin was when EQ started to build the game for people with less time to play. The graphics and pathing seem to have been the significant issues when people started switching.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I think a lot of people miss how important it was to mold the game towards less play time requirements. Players were starting to age out of high school and could put in the time anymore.

[@FiindingEmo]

As a druid main, and a casual that never maxed or did many raids, I didn't mind Luclin at all. It was PoP that was where I started falling off, mostly because I couldn't make money porting anymore, before finally quitting after LoY.

[@KirtHooper]

On the Drinal server the tunnel didn't haven't trading. It was all done in NFP. Evil races took the sewers and stayed behind the jade tiger. Way cooler than tunnel imo

[@dl1277]

Yea I laugh all the time when people talk about losing the tunnel, cause as an evil based char on drinal I was cool, I don't have to faction/sneak into the jade anymore lmao

[@estebanembroglio6371]

on tunare the spot was kelethin bank. Gbay /Faymart

[@PeteQuad]

I loved Luclin. I was fading away and really lost interest but when I started my Beastlord it renewed me and gave me years more of play.

[@stranger6822]

Regarding the Bazaar replacing ECT, you talking about this helped me finally crystalize something. No doubt the Bazaar was a more convenient way to trade. But people don't tell stories about it or fondly remember it the way they do the tunnel. Why? IMO, it's because the Bazaar was a gameplay feature that didn't require much thought, whereas ECT was an prolonged experience. Even if it wasn't always fun at the time, the memories you formed through experiencing the tunnel were lasting. You had to focus while doing it, it wasn't easy, and it wasn't always a good experience. All of that made it less fun to do at the time, but also made for a stronger, and fonder, memory. I think this is the issue with convenience features. Too much convenience runs the risk of destroying charm. If a thing is too easy, it doesn't provoke the formation of memories. There are side benefits to ECT as well. Some things just weren't worth trying to take there and sell. If you had extra gear and didn't feel like taking it to ECT, you might just give it to friends or even new players. Or you might sell it to a vendor where it can show up on that vendor later, and the vendor might sell it at a lower price than what it's truly worth, leading to a great find for the next player to come along. Stuff like that is much less common with a Bazaar or, for that matter, the auction houses common to modern MMOs.

[@Thrashershockey16]

PoP was my favorite expansion. What killed the game for me was the time sink the raids became. I truly enjoyed all of the camaraderie of my guild (Twist of Fate / Erollisi Maar) the amount of sarcasm and ball breaking was the best part of the game for me. What killed that was greed eventually. Everyone wanted all the newest shiny gear and would seemingly only push for themselves instead of the greater good like before. With that being said nothing I have played since has given me the warm and fuzzies like EQ did. I really miss that feeling. Some really great friends and memories for sure.

[@sqrlmonger]

I really enjoyed Luclin. In particular raiding VT has some of my best memories in the game for me. I will rant some of them for those interested in such nostalgia but skip this if you aren't interested in such things: One night in particular I remember very fondly where we had just cleared DXXT (3rd of the Tower bosses before you go up to the upper floors) . And we usually got here and maybe killed TVK who was only a short clear away from there before we would lose too many people and never made it to the bosses that followed (e.g. the fake wall room with the ghetto Aten Ha Ra fight). The officers were trying to convince me to call it a night as it was around 10:30 PM and I just told them I wasn't going to do it. I announced to the raid that while we knew many people were expecting us to stop soon we were planning to keep going until we simply couldn't anymore and that we hoped people would stick it out if they could. Normally we would start a raid with around 60-65 people and by the time we got to this point we had 40. That night we had 39 left including 4 clerics and 1 enchanter (if you know VT good enchanters are worth their weight in gold) and if we lost 2-3 more the DPS was going to simply be too low. Anyways I told them to put on some coffee cause we were going to try and clear the zone. On our server there were Asian guilds that would raid not long after our raid so any bosses we left up they would CoTH to and clear before our next raid. So we had to do it in one shot or we would never get our shot. To make a long story short we were up until about 1:30 AM had almost no AFKs the rest of the night as everyone was burning and running rotations to keep our DPS ahead of respawns. We got our first try first kill wins on DXVT, VXAHR, both blobs, and AHR herself with the most magnificent 39 people who stuck it out like troopers. I think half of the people there got loot that night as VT is basically candyland once you get to the back half where it's just Boss, kill 6 trash, Boss, kill 8 trash, boss, boss, boss with each dropping 4-5 pieces plus spells, but to get there you need to kill like 120 trash mobs without letting them gate, respawn, etc... Several raiders told me later that if we had wiped they were going to bed and while they were tired as hell the next day at work they were glad they stayed. The general sentiment of the guild was that it was a breakthrough evening and one of those nights where it all just came together. The next time we ran VT we got back to TVK and still had 62 people in raid, it was 8:30 PM and we cruised easily through and cleared the whole zone finishing by about 11 PM with 50 or so. We never had to stop short of a full clear again (though I did have to get on some people about trying to afk while everybody else cleared trash =P) We weren't pioneers getting server-wide first kills or anything close, but we did take that confidence gained in VT and turned around the week following our first clear and downed RZtW in PoTactics on our very first try and put him on farm status for several weeks. Incidentally this meant a rival guild that I had previously been a member of, and who had been bashing their heads on the fight for a couple weeks couldn't do him and by the time we stopped farming him they had a disastrous 2 weeks of failed attempts and the entire guild fell apart (I don't know if it was due to this, just that they happened around the same time). Which I was happy about since the officers of that guild had tried to modify the guild DKP rules mid-raid after we had killed the PoI dragon so that one of the officer's sons could get the aggro proc hammer instead of me even though I had enough DKP to outright claim it according to the rules we used. Most of the guild, including its former leader who had stepped back, just about mutinied on the spot and so they relented and actually did ultimately follow the rules. But not long after that there was more drama and I had had enough. So I joined a new guild and was made the main raid leader not long after. From there I set about to get us keyed for Emp (I literally lived in Ssra and made sure we had 2 groups going damn near constantly for keys), VT (the rest of my time was spent helping people get shards/balls), and eventually the Elemental planes, etc.. I still miss a lot of the friends I made during this time. Was a great guild and included a great cast of characters. I fear I was a bit of a grumpy raid leader at times as I was quite young, but we somehow managed in spite of that. The best part will forever be that all of this happened with my IRL brother (playing Enc) and IRL friend Bob (playing Cle) as co-officers in the guild. Both having come over with me from the previous guild. They were a massive part of our success though I think it took me a number of years to realize it wasn't all down to how awesome I was. Looking back I learned a lot about life and people from this period in my life. So for me Luclin will always have a soft spot. Too many good memories not to. PS - RIP Bob, I miss you buddy.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

@sqrlmonger Thats a great story, thanks for taking the time to write all that out. I love those old stories about guilds overcoming challenges in the old days of EQ!

[@askulkingfox]

I played EverQuest through Prophecy of Ro and do think that Luclin set the stage for the decline of EverQuest. That's not to say many things added weren't beneficial or even welcome, but it was the end of the "classic" EQ experience and for many players that meant the end of EQ for them. The graphic upgrade certainly felt like the start of EQ's "schism" at the time. Your character's appearance changed whether you liked it or not. I remember logging into a group in Cazic Thule on my ranger and another player saying how weird my character looked. I had no idea what my character looked like with the Luclin models since I couldn't run the new graphics on my low-end machine. I think a lot of people playing EverQuest at the time also weren't "gamers" but people swept up into the magic that was Norrath using whatever computer they had for school, work or personal entertainment. EverQuest 2 should have been SOE's volley at next-gen graphics, not EQ. The geometry that the new system seems to rely on also changed the character of the game from there on out. The overhauls of Commonlands, Freeport, etc years later just feel lifeless and out of place compared to the original world of EQ. The animations were also beyond weird and offputting. I strongly feel the implementation of the Nexus and Bazaar could have preserved more of what made EQ great: it's community. EC should have remained the tradehub and had some version of the bazaar system implemented there. The Spires could have facilitated cross-world travel without dumping players into the Nexus and turning it into the new place to AFK (vs EC). Instead SOE could have made the Nexus into a unique the entry point to Luclin similar to FV, OT, or Iceclad. Thanks for making this video - it gave me a lot to think about!

[@kaijukoopa1248]

I really liked both the troll and ogre models, both old and new but I really locked into my ogre after the model update

[@roboparks]

I did miss the butt scratching animation though LOL

[@johnpavidis8184]

the Addition of AA points made the game. so much fun grinding AA's after the levels. its the main draw for me returning over the years

[@Dosbomber]

For me, the era of AAs were the best time in the game, when as a mage, my pet could flurry, rampage, berserk (I think?), and all sorts of wild stuff, literally allowing me to solo in places like deep inside Grieg's End, and on raids, Vobekn (or whatever) could rise to the damage output just behind the main tank, while me, as a lowly food/drink-summoner and mod-rod crafter, could out-DPS and out-CriticalBlast all of the wizards. Always got a lot of attention when Emperor Ssra would call out my pet by name when its non-taunting aggro would build up higher than the main tank, while I was flinging 20k critical bolt blasts. Those were good times, for me.

[@gutika113]

Absolutely love these lore videos man 👌🏽

[@Joshthegamer8600]

Glad to hear it!

[@christianlamarche1615]

Great video, lots to agree and disagree with. I will admit seeing this has made me want to redownload and play again! As someone who played 18 years (started in 2000) and has multiple accounts still to this day, I would argue easier MMORPGs are what ruined EQ. World of Warcraft came along and provided easier grouping, faster results, easier raids and that’s when majority population went away. Lots loved working for your accomplishments, but sadly others didn’t enjoy the time needed to get there. EQ in its prime will always hold a part in my mind as the best game ever made with bards and monks being my favorite characters out of them all.

[@cylontoaster7660]

Bards and monks were interesting to play because the combat in EQ1 was incredibly boring. The final boss in NTov (vulaak), I remember half the guild would just AFK auto-attack the damn thing because the fight took like 40 minutes of beating on a giant dragon sized punching bag while clerics chain CH'd the tank. Monk was only interesting if you were pulling and bards you had to be a little active in successfully twisting your songs. People quit the game because the game didn't respect your time - WoW had meaningful tradeskills (lets be honest, tradeskills in EQ were trash) and easier ways to find groups. If someone only had an hour to two to play, they don't want to spend half that time in Ecom or Nexus or PoK screaming for a group or waiting for a spot to open in XP groups in your guild.

[@Donghua-clips]

As a guy who played a Druid pre Luclin and then a Beastlord ever since. Luclin will always be my absolutely favorite expansion. Between the new race, the new class, the AA's. I loved every bit of it. Also the bazaar is hands down one fo the best features the game has ever given us. I have several bank characters full of stuff to sell on the bazaar because I hate haggling in EC so much.

[@joemac84]

After playing the PoP Agnar server and Velius p99 server, I agree the expansion killed the game bc EQ essentially lost its soul in those expansions. I had to experience both servers to realize that.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I have always loved both Luclin and PoP

[@nathancantino5669]

i love both luclin expansions. . love the video. looking forward to luclin lore video

[@LiamsLyceum]

As someone not around for the early days of EQ, pretty fascinating to hear thoughts circa 20+ years ago

[@thatoneguyis]

Going back on my memory - I believe there was controversy with the new models (outside of cpu demand) but I think it was mostly related to certain models like you pointed out - barb, troll, and ogre come to mind as the ones people hated the changes on the most. I wouldn't mind a bazaar in classic and beast master class but the over all design and cats in Luclin turn me off.

[@ambrosiuscw4478]

I enjoyed the 'Luclin' feeling of zones and kind of miss it in MMOs. Often times these days you get wall to wall mobs, I sort of miss having vast spaces that aren't jam packed. Regarding the graphic updates, I did end up liking it over time, but I always feel it would have been better if the older zones and NPCs had gotten an update too. The visual differences were really jarring.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

I agree, Luclin had a great feel to it and the zones really seem to fit the expansion.

[@BH-lu5rz]

They balanced out the time savings from travel with some extreme grind time if you were in a raiding guild. Anyone LFG to go farm that weapon ore in Ssra temple? PoP was my favorite expansion, though not without things to complain about. There were some really lackluster expansions after PoP. To me that was more what killed the game for most people, just looking at success at keeping people in the game. Luclin was for sure the biggest shock to anyone nostalgic, but it was also probably the second best expansion post trilogy. I started playing after Luclin was out and so many friends and family were like oh man you have to try this game.. So I never had that much experience strictly in the original trilogy game. I played for over a decade before I had to just stop. /Played of over 1 year of time, with very little bazaar time on main char. I didn't want to just log in and be a regular player, and being in a high end raiding guild is just not very compatible with life after that long. I still miss the game and compare every other gaming experience to EQ in my mind. Log in once a year to see if my characters are still there and maybe get killed running around recklessly for an hour or so while seeing if anyone I knew is still playing. The worst thing is all those people I talked to daily are just pretty much gone. I tried to meet up with people and make real life friends, but mostly what we had in common was EQ. It was a hell of a ride and no regrets really, but I'm not doing that again. No Wow or anything else like that.

[@shadowviruz]

One thing to remember about the Bazaar is that cable modems weren't mainstream in 2001, so if you wanted to sell it not only meant leaving the pc on all day but used the phone line as well.

[@tombeef4534]

I think the complaint about the bazaar is that while obviously more convenient for both buyer and seller it took away social interaction. You weren’t just buying something from someone but it bred familiarity with certain sellers and the opportunity to run into familiar faces, and that in a nutshell is what made EQ the best mmo that ever existed

[@roboparks]

The Scammers couldn't scam anymore . All Trades were Logged and verified . In the Bazaar . Plus it ended the SPamming Local . Plus you could sell and not have to stay at your PC. Eventually they added logged out trading. You could log out for the night and keep your Trader up . More Play time .

[@Andrew-it7fb]

The old system was the worst. It was so annoying that I just never traded.

[@kptv75]

This was my favorite expansion. I miss playing the game.

[@guindell3119]

It's always nice to find someone else who loves Luclin. Appreciate the video!

[@nathans1787]

Great video! And very timely with Luclin about to launch on Teek!

[@_i_6946]

I played on Rallos Zek, there was no EC tunnel trading on that server. The trading hub was kelethin in greater faydark. The bazaar was amazing for anyone who dealt with that.

[@crowsbridge]

As far as the Rallos server goes, it was the beginning of the end. I think Velious was my favorite expansion.

[@j-sin3344]

My RL friend Henry who I worked at an ISP w/ back in 99 thru 02 played EQ. He said that the items and coin should have a box to type the amount you want, back then it was a slidebar and was a pain to get the exact amount. He ALSO came up the Bazaar idea back in Kunark. I remember him saying we should be able to log off and leave our character online w/ gear we want to sell. Heh he was born and raised in Taiwan, so he had a head start on us American borns. Anywho, love it.

[@casrogue]

we need a server from the original to Luclin. The spires did not cut travel at all. Guilds had their own porters and many people still used the druids and wizards to travel during SoL. The bazaar was awesome, it was like thrifting ..you spend lots of time looking and trying to get stuff for professions, Loved the elysian amor on my druid ..awesome gear if you were passed for clerics and shamans as a druid LOL What people did not liked was the cats and how much experience noobie zones had compared to old newbie areas and that drained the old zones.

[@Corpselit-Babyman]

Quarm

[@Corpselit-Babyman]

Project Quarm

[@casrogue]

@Corpselit-Babyman project quarm goes past Luclin. To PoP ..

[@voir-dire]

I started playing a little after Luclin released and stopped at GoD. WoW killed it, nothing else.

[@KittenyKat]

100% it did. Glad someone actually made a video about this topic so long later! Luclin killed the game for me, it's the reason I quit playing the very first MMO I ever fell in love with. :< I'd gotten so invested into leatherworking because there were so many cool models and patterns for it, especially with Velious (the Velious wood elf leather was beautiful in particular), and then months later "oh hey NEW GRAPHICS Y'ALL we're all using ONE GENERIC ARMOR MODEL FOR EACH CLASS OF ARMOR FOREVER NOW LMAO" and just stab all of us who ground that skill up for months right in the heart. D:

[@fethdor]

I liked Luclin and PoP. To me the plane of time and Quarm could not be topped. Then Gates of Discord came out and made me realize it would never end. I had RL stuff to do shortly after that and no longer felt any need to log in. Looking forward to Pantheon though.

[@vovagroup4game]

I started when EQ launched and yes, Luclin was the beginning of the end. PoP was the final nail. Then everyone spread out between the 100 new mmos that were releasing every other day to cash in on the EQ subscribers until WoW gobbled up the market. The other half played Lineage 2, Aion or EVE Online.

[@JoshuaRoberts_V]

PoP killed EQ. Luclin was perfectly fine.

[@cylontoaster7660]

@@JoshuaRoberts_V Luclin started the downward slide, PoP started to make people leave in greater numbers, but then the subsequent expansion really killed it. My guild imploded in PoP after we broke into the elemental planes...I think the core of the guild dabbled in games like FFXI, Shadowbane, and City of Heroes until WoW came out.

[@BrianBlock]

I played EQ rabidly up through PoP, with some casual play through later expansion until WoW came out. 1. I can vividly remember the hate for the new models, specifically Ogre and Dwarf models (I played human, dwarf, high/wood elf, erudite, Iksar in those days. Only dwarf was horrible in my character line-up). Iksar was an amazing upgrade, elves were neutral, Erudite was goofy, but an upgrade, and my human monk looked amazing with the new model(Human Monk, wood elf ranger, high elf enchanter, erudite mage, Iksar necromancer). 2. The worst part of Luclin was absolutely the Bazaar. EC tunnels was possibly the best thing about any gaming community, ever, certainly at the time and possibly even now. Selling was 100% easier in Luclin, but that was NOT the point of EC Tunnel. Early EQ was all about community and every aspect of that could be found in EC tunnel. We both sold and gathered there. Sell in the main tunnel by the bend, show off gear out front in the sun, and sit around in parties and chat in the big cave after the bend. My 3 servers even had the same duel spots in Tunnel, it was basically an underground fighting ring where people would cheer and place bets :). 3. I recall most of my guild and friends liking the teleporting convenience, as it really didn't shrink the world THAT much for high level players, unlike PoP, which gutted the established travel methods and really changed it for everyone. Luclin made it much easier for low level players, but high level players already had guildies and alts who could get you almost anywhere, along with Lev, SoW/jboots, and/or Selos' to get around quickly, even back in vanilla. 4. Back then, BST sucked, I hated them. They are really good in later expansions, but the cat model and the class were 'meh' at best. 5. AA - Honestly, this was amazing and only made the game better mechanically, as well as making grinding and playing at max level worthwhile outside of raids, as you said. The haters are the worst type of purist. I am all for P99 purist ideals, but the AA haters seemed to be looking for anything they could complain about. EDIT: 6. I forgot mounts, even back then, I ran everywhere, I forgot to mount at least 90% of the time until my party/guild yelled at me. It became a meme in our guild, best mount, never used it :). I got lucky (and had a server 1st world top 20 guild) and had the Seru mount "early" in the expansion as were world 6 or 7th on that kill, so I can't complain about their speed.

[@edneragnarok]

Luclin will always be my favorite expansion because it brought the beastlord class which is to this day my favorite class in any game ever. And I spent so much time in the bazaar buying and selling, it was almost a second game in itself. Loved it so much.

[@AlarahCA]

I think the biggest thing I didn't like about Luclin wasn't the look of the new character models, but how they moved. The animations felt so lacking to the classic models.

[@finchaser1-nt2wq]

As a current EQ player, i feel when they introduced the mercenaries is what changed the game, the mercs took away from needing a cleric or enchanter etc in a group. Most players i believe either solo with mercs or 2 box or more with mercs which took away the need for people to group.

[@jcmick8430]

Mercs killed it for a lot of ppl but for me it made it possible to play without being dependent on finding a group. Obv I'm not playing a cleric lol

[@finchaser1-nt2wq]

@jcmick8430 Yes you are right, mercs did make it so people who didn't want to find a group could go fight. I just meant mercs changed to social aspect of the game. On some of the new zones, unless you have raid or real good armor, weapons, it's hard to solo some of the mobs with just a merc.so I think some people have to try to find a group which can be hard sometimes because most people now are accustomed to playing with mercs unless you're in a good active guild.

[@jcmick8430]

@finchaser1-nt2wq as a raider I don't mind grouping with scrubs as long as they know how to play their class

[@teemoney9443]

by the time mercs came out, nobody was grouping anymore. They were introduced to keep the game on life support.

[@finchaser1-nt2wq]

@@teemoney9443 that is true

[@Noxmare]

Finally, some good effing food regarding the post original trilogy. Understandable that the Original-Kunark-Velious sits the closest to a major of playerbase's hearts but we're talking about a game with more than a quarter of century-long history and content. Disregarding anything past Velious though, yet again, understandable still doesn't give the game enough credit. Personally, I am rather a newcomer to the game having only joined it some 4 years ago on a TLP. Starting from Original era and now with The Broken Mirror on my server the game has captivated me like I thought no other MMO would ever again. So please, keep the good post-Velious stuff coming. As the game went on the lore stayed great and didn't devolve into constant "monster of the week, evil greater than one before", the mechanics became more nuanced and the gameplay more fluid. There is a lot to cover and the game and people behind it deserve it.

[@ChaosSlayerZX]

I have discussed topic of Luclin many times with many people. My overall conclusion - good idea but half baked. 1. Aliens on the Moon : I would not have choose Moon and alien theme as grounds for expansion - I would do another continent or Shadow realm instead, but ok, other than Boglings, everything else was digestible. 2. Graphics - I love MOST of new models, but some others need a lot of work. Like all the short races became indistinguishable from each other. Terrain graphics are awesome. 3. Content - it really feels that one group of people was working on some zones, while another group was working on others zone and in a BIG RUSH. There are HUGE content gaps in between, zones, and some low levels zones are locked between 2 higher level zones which makes it illogical to ever go there. Quests some really good ones here and there, but mostly pointless and hard to find. Temple of SSra and Vex Thal were AWESOME. Some places like Moons Letalis were 100% DEAD. No one ever went there. Entire chunk of zones between Shar Vahl and Kata Castalium was barely visited (other than to go to Acrilya Mines) - there was nothing to do there 4. Mudflation - huge XP bonuses for low low level zones and items that dropped from lev 15-25 mobs, that were previously available from 40+ mobs was lead case of killing all world low end zones. 5.Bazaar vs EC Tunnel. When trying to trade bronze mace for bronze sword EC Tunnel is great. When you trying to sell 500 HQ Bear pelts you want Bazaar. To conclude - good effort, but needed more polish, probably another 3-5 months of work to produce quality product. Definitely NOT the cause of EQ death. That prize belongs to GoD/OoW and World of Warcraft.

[@Dosbomber]

LOL absolutely agree on #5... I used to load up those summoned weightless mage bags with bricks of velium and such from Velk's Labyrinth, then sell it on a vendor toon while I either slept or worked. EC always drove me nuts with all the /ooc spam.

[@yunggolem4687]

No. Destroying the social scene via automation tanked EQ. I played through those days, there were few complaints about Luclin's lore or vibe & the graphics complaints were superfluous & tapered off after a couple months, plus you could turn most of them off if you wanted. It was the systems that started ruining the game, especially those that reduced social engagement like the new automated trader mechanics. Dealing with the Commonlands trading scene was a big way people were socially integrated into the game, The Bazaar or whatever the original "set your char up as an automated trader" area was called more or less destroyed that. AAs in Luclin were also extremely weak, they didn't contribute much to power creep. It was in PoP & beyond that AAs became a big source of power creep, but this is just an extension of the leveling system, giving grinder types more grind to grind. It's largely unavoidable in this type of game. Planes of Power is when things really went off the rails, even though PoP had some good lore & good zones... the power scaling got way out of hand & the fast travel book system shrunk the feeling of world scale & removed a lot of the social interaction involved in getting transportation around the world via Wizards & Druids, as well as meeting people at travel chokepoints like Boats & Nexus Spires. Nearly every expansion after that cannibalized some element of the game normally handled via social interaction & turned it into an automated system. They added ways to get buffs from NPCs, NPC mercenaries, more travel systems. They exposed more & more of the hidden information of the game directly to the player, slamming them with walls of text & stats rather than leaving it to the players who wanted to min/max to ask other players, find websites created by other players, & do their own testing. The design & lore really degenerated with Gates of Discord as I recall it. They also started nerfing all of the more wacky ways to play like Bard Kiting & various Charm shenanigans, homogenizing the classes, making everyone the same & thus boring. WoW fell into a lot of the same traps, the groupfinder & cross server dungeons being the most undeniable.

[@marzix427]

I liked Luclin, having access to the Nexus and Bazaar was so much better. I started later, literally the day before PoP launched (which I had no idea about). I made an Iksar because the new model looked sweet, compared to other games at the time. Raiding SSRA Temple and VT was fun. My only gripe with Luclin is the amount of hit points the mobs had compared to similar leveled mobs in the old world and when I was behind the curve of max level, I spent a lot of time soloing or in a group of 1 or 2 extra. Luclin mobs were just so much harder, that I never really got to do anything in them. Overall, I liked it. I like the new character models as someone who never played with the old models, the raids were fun and challenging, and the convenience of Bazaar and Nexus were top tier. I was still buying ports and the only place I was getting one was if I ran to a wizard spire and waited for someone to port me around (this was post PoP launch as well)

[@GameReaver85]

In theory, I liked AAs, but in practice, I ultimately found out that they made the game feel daunting to come back to. I remember going on a hiatus after PoP, and when I returned in OoW, I felt so incredibly behind. This would only get exacerbated further as future expansions would release, and one of the major reasons I never ended coming back to the retail game in the end.

[@RaymondSkelley]

The new character models were horrible. Not because of the graphics. Because the animations completely changed. Iksar were horrible - look at one swimming on the old model and then look at one swim on the new model - same issue with EQ2 - WoW spent a crapton of time/money whatever it took to make animations perfect - despite 'cartoon' looks most players didn't care for, however the game played and felt right because the animations were top notch. This is a big part of what people mean when they say the game 'felt like it changed' but they can't figure out what - because everyone notices the animations suck but don't understand the reason why.

[@YehoshNelson]

Don't forget the kedge teleportation room under the ocean

[@teemoney9443]

What killed me was the speed at which expansions started coming out. Who are these maniacs finishing expansions in 90 days? I liked to make alts, talk to NPCs looking for quests and just explore in general. If you weren't focusing on one toon and constantly grinding for keys and flags, you couldn't keep up with expansions dropping 3 times a year.

[@konstantinpospelov951]

Artistic direction went sideways after the founders left development.

[@nl817]

The new UI may have come out during Velious, but you could still use the old UI at that time.

[@roboparks]

You still Can by using a 3rd party Skin

[@jessemorgan7007]

Original EQ ended when SoV came out. Original EQ and RoK were still mostly group oriented and even at the max level of 60 there were several places you could group like Seb, Chardock, The Hole, PoF and PoH and still get decent items. When SoV came out the game became more raid heavy and less group oriented. NToV and PoG raids took days to complete with only a few people in raid getting rewards. Dont get me wrong SoV was my favorite expac but to me it killed the fun factor of grouping with my friends. SoL seemed empty and again seemed raid heavy but I did like the addition of mounts but the bazaar killed EC which was a place of gathering for all levels. The introduction of vahshir was good but the beast lord class was very lack luster. If they released the original EQ with original rule set along with RoK and VoS but made it modern graphics and interface wise it would be a great game.

[@SannerDM]

Love the video. Would be a million times better with subdued ambiance music from EQ synched with the visual content.

[@piromaniac9999]

as much as i love velious and kunark i think luclin brought a lot of things that were needed in overhauls. AA-s made big improvements on classes that were very lacluster:Ranger and wizard and made also big improvements on rogue too. I feel like this is one of those things that cannot be underestimated

[@kohl1999]

AAs, while great for people who wanted a new way to power up their character, became a barrier of entry for new and returning players IMHO. Grinding out AAs was tedious as heck. If you were there for the launch of Luclin and had been keeping up with the available AA abilities it was fine but I can't imagine people coming into the game or returning and facing the prospect of having to get 100's of AA points to be competitive in raiding.

[@piromaniac9999]

@@kohl1999 AAs were both a blessing and a curse in some ways.when moved too far forward you need to spam a bunch of aas to be viable, but without everquest needs improvements to make some classes viable.its definitely far from perfect and i don't like vah shir still, so i definitely get it.The aas thing and needing to box to play are both reasons i quit live eq and went to p99.

[@KittenyKat]

Also I will say, pronunciations of Luclin are wildly different and even today I run across new ones. xD Like I'd never heard "Luck-lin" before this video. Most commonly I'd heard "Luce-lin" as in Lucy.

[@Nakari777]

Luclin was awesome ;) I stand by that assertion!

[@odarkeq]

Luclin introduced graphics changes that allowed for growth. Expansions were all great through Lost Dungeons of Norrath, then they went downhill fast. Planes of Power was the most epic adventure I've experienced in a game.

[@jong2359]

I appreciate how you cover popular opinions that you yourself don't necessarily agree with. Based on your stance on the evolution of Everquest over time, you might enjoy Asheron's Call if you ever want to try a new MMO experience from the EQ era.

[@stagehog81]

Considering that EverQuest still has players today, it's safe to say that Luclin didn't kill EverQuest. It did end up changing a lot about the existing player culture, some for the better and some for the worse. I liked the bazaar that made it easier to buy and sell things between players. I didn't like the alternate advancement system since it caused a larger issue of elitism in those that were able to devote huge amounts of time to the game over those that couldn't play as often. You could have a level 50 raid group looking for people and the more casual player who was level 50 and wants to do the raid would get rejected because they didn't also have 50+ AA points. The spires also made travel a lot faster than having to wait for boats, but that can be considered a negative thing since there are many people I still play games with today that I first met while sitting at the docks in Freeport or the Butcherblock Mountains waiting for the boat.

[@Fabermorrow]

Timestamps would make this video perfect! Great video

[@DT-vc7hd]

The core idea of EQ was great... an adapatation of existing text MUDs but in a cutting edge 3D graphic context. What came after was classic example of what happens when the C-Suite mistook being in the right place at the right time with their own brilliance. Holding out hope the right folks pick up the torch.

[@Turvok]

Not every server used the ecom tunnel. I was on veeshan and we used north Freeport. Evil races were forced to kill guards and faction to be able to bank. Or get traders to meet them in the sewer tunnel. I've heard other servers also traded in nektulos forest.

[@leonardoe1977]

the first time in EQ I ever dreaded logging into play was honestly the nights our guild was doing Vex Thall.

[@Joshthegamer8600]

Vex Thall was such a long tedious raid!

[@charlesdebarber2997]

Much of the divisiveness is that Luclin changed EQ more than any expansion before it. It is astounding the changes it made to the player base... Every expansion impacts the population. When Kunark launched about 60% of of the players were on Kunark. Velious divided that a little. Classic zones by Velious were becoming ghost towns. Luclin turned Kunark and much of Velious into a ghost town. There was a time LOIO and Eastern Wastes were two of the most popular zones in the game. Both ended with Luclin. The XP bonuses on Luclin were insane! Why would you do your teens/20s anywhere but Paludal Caverns? I can only answer for me why I quit right after SoL's launch. I spent so much time raiding... Kunark and Velious were a non-stop raid culture if you wanted to experience them. Some of us were just kind of burnt out... The last four months of Velious I spent hanging out in Plane of Mischief after our raid guild fell apart due to internal drama. After teaming up with former raid rivals to figure out that zone enjoy card hunting I just didn't have it in me to do another. Sure, I despised the Luclin models. I though the bazaar was neat. I liked travel was easier. I came back at the end of PoP and the beginning of LDoN. I wasn't raiding anymore, but the game was just too different. Even with the launch of GoD and EQ being at its peak popularity the world felt mostly empty it had grown so large. The irony is that EQ making itself easier and more accessible drove me away, but that is what consumers like. WoW put that on steroids and ate EQ's lunch. Project 1999 made me feel the magic again of those first three expensions.

[@jn2400]

The new models looked horrendous to me

[@nektulosnewbie]

Everquest was designed differently from how it later went. Raiding was created as the game went on, and was as much a player developed concept as a developer one (complete heal being used in heal rotations was a player develoed idea, the spell was originally made as a between heal to top people off and not a combat spell, FD pulling was originally seen as a bug by the developers and was punished to begin with as an exploit, something later allowed once they realize it helped give monks a vital group purpose beyond DPS - they originally expected played to split camps with only the lull and mez lines of spells, something we all know woukd have made places like Hate and Fear impossible to break into). Originally EQ was centered around the playing experience, the adventure you did everyday that wasn't just a progression towards an end point. Wiping and recovering your corpse was as much, if not more, of the EQ experience than grinding to get into a raid guild and amass loot. By Luclin, it had shifted to that after Velious established the raid routine Kunark still lacked (Kunarks raid targets were rather poor and almost no one experienced the proto-Velious of Veeshans Peak). What happened was the age of "Your in our world!" of the original game ended and MMO content consumption began, where expansions were picked apart and eaten like before the next serving came to pick apart and eat. It killed off EQs culture and community and made the end state everyone aimed for raid guiding. As such, the details of Luclin largely don't matter save for ones that invalidated large parts of the game, like cities with the bazaar, what mastered was how the game shifted into a style of ganeplay that WoW would later toxically perfect, soulless theme park style, largely asocial gameplay.